Great video. This is the driver who commented a video or so ago. I'm sure after posting my take on touring and what I made as a driver, some people probably thought I was full of shit. This video clearly shows I was not. $400 a day. The weekly services, generator, linens, bus washes, goes to us, which we get $36 a day. So, our total daily pay is $436 a day, unless we are deadheading. Those deadhead days we get hotel buyouts of $125. So, the days we are deadheading, our daily rate is $561. As you mentioned, we get this every day, from the day we leave our office until the day we get back to our office. Regardless if it is a day off or not, we get paid. Again, great video!
Thank you for your insight, man! I pinned this comment because I want people to see feedback from an ACTUAL full time driver. A lot of people have tried to dispute some things that were on this estimate, saying that the company collects a lot of that "driver day rate" and the bus drivers don't actually get paid that much. As you can see, they do, and rightly so. There's A LOT of work that goes into being a driver, especially when the safety and comfort of everyone riding the bus is in their hands on a daily/nightly basis.
bus drivers never have off day, if you don't go to the bus daily, and clean, take out the trash and make sure the bus is ok, then you owe the company that days pay back.
Im just a music fan.. im retired.. i pick some guitar w/local friends .. ive known a guy for over 45yrs now.. He was Tour Manager for Alan Jackson for about 12 yrs.. He Tour Managed for Jo Dee Messina also.. He is Tony Stephens.. last few yrs he was Technical Services Director at the Grand Ole Opry. Tony just recently retired and has moved back to his Hometown in Alabama.. Ive met him a few times for lunch & supper when he would get a lil break & able to take a few days to visit home.. (AJ used to take the Summers off from Touring to spend time with his 3 daughters while they were out of School) Tony has told me before that folks just really couldn't comprehend ALL the details that go into "Managing" a Tour.. i understand what he was talking about now!! Tank, Have you ever met Tony Stephens?.. He is an EXTREMELY talented musician also.. on multiple instruments!!
$400 per day? That surprises me, because a Teamster driver for your typical one hour cop show will make more than that. Driver captain for Netflix's "Nancy Drew" makes $38.49 per hour for the first 8 hours... and the average day is 12 hours. Do you load in and out and are you Teamster?
That's why I refuse to by a tour shirt from some guy outside the venue for $15 bucks. I would rather buy the shirt inside at a stand and pay $30 to $35 bucks, because I know I'm helping the band pay it's bills for entertainment they worked so hard for me to enjoy. Nice video Tank!
People outside selling shirts are bootleggers. The shirts aren't official or have anything to do with the bands at all. You're basically just giving your money to someone that literally has nothing to do with the band.
This was part of my responsibilities in identifying the bootleggers and having security/police waiting for them at events. Between the bootleggers and the drug dealers and the occasional attempted murder it kept me too busy at the event to listen to the music :)
If you really want the band to pay their bills, why don't you just open your wallet or your rainbow colored man purse, and give the band ALL your money. Eat a can of worms, while you allow the band members to eat 8 inch thick bacon wrapped fillet mignon, and wash it down with cases of Dom Perignon champagne, or Crown Royal. You'd rather make millionaires bigger millionaires instead of helping a blue collar working stiff, selling $15 dollar tee shirts, trying to make enough money to buy a pound of bologna or a pound of cheap hotdogs to feed his family hamburger helper, and wash it down with a glass of lead based water. You are a certified moron that comes with a certificate of authenticity. Well, Congratulations dipshit, and shit for brains. You are the newest member of the Class of 2023 Dumbass Hall of Fame.
Former touring musician here. We used a bandwagon, which is a great alternative to a bus for mid-size bands/artists. I can say another huge reason bands and artists choose a bus or bandwagon is the health aspect. Even before Covid, it was very easy to get sick or overtired (which leads to accidents) when you have 5-8 people stuck in a van. And in a van, you're either hiring a driver to drive your van around at night or taking shifts driving which leads to the crew and band being sick or run down or overtired... which can lead to accidents or shows being cancelled because people are sick so those aspects are huge as well
Axe Muder Boyz had to cancel the tour they were on, because they flipped there van. More than likely on a straight stretch which can make you a lil sleepy as well, than a road with slight turns to keep you more alert.
@@Tim85-y2q That doesn't really matter. What's important is the fact, that it allows you to cover much longer distances because the driver drives you to the next location while your sleeping. You often wake being right at the front door of the next place you're playing which gives you enough time to unload your gear, eat, maybe relax, go for a dander. If you're touring in a van there's no way you can do it night after night after night. You need a proper bed otherwise you go nuts.
I’ve never done a van tour so I don’t know but pre Covid every bus tour id ever done was usually just me and everyone else being sick on the bus. Lol. So idk how much better the health aspect gets.
This was a great breakdown of this part of entertainment cost, Tank! A quick comment about something you mentioned briefly: because of COVID, many of these busses sat in bus yards for the greater part of two years w/ no maintenance. I was on tour this spring helping to finish out the last 15 days a 35 day tour. Over those 15 days, we had 10 breakdowns between two of our three busses. I was informed when I arrived on tour that they had already gone through 10 different busses and 3 different leasing companies. We were fortunate to have three busses, so we would stuff everyone between two and sometimes rent a truck to go on to the venue while the bus was fixed. We managed to make every show, but we were limping to the finish line (we literally left the piano and PA on the side of the road on our way to the last show.) Cancelling shows is a huge blow to a band's budget, and even if a bus company were to refund the bus cost for that time, it wouldn't replace the cost of the gear rental for the day, or any of the other logistics that factors into budgeting.
@@dw9034 it’s called “lot rot.” Cars, trucks, busses are all subject to the gaskets, and hoses etc drying out because of a lack of use. Even tires, the tread may be good, but the sidewalls get brittle. I was a OTR driver and generally averaged 7.3-7.8 miles per gallon, and you figure that you can average 60 miles per hour X’s 10 hours, you can expect to drive at most 600 miles per day. Construction, fatality accidents, snow storms, road closures, you name it and you will have to deal with it when you can least afford it. So a good average distance to calculate is based on 50 mph, or 500 miles. This allows for a driver to go out of route to bypass a storm, or in the event of a 2-3 hour shut down because of a fatality accident etc. you can bank on $400-500 in diesel per 10 hour shift. $12-14000 fuel cost.
@@dw9034 YES!!!! The "emissions" and electronics make these newer busses a nightmare on rubber. I'm right now looking at the late 80s early 90s ones with "mechanical" components simply for the reliability factor. Most of my owner operator truck driver friends are looking at replacing newer trucks with older ones they've rebuilt themselves. Busses like trucks are just a solid frame with bolt on components that can be rebuilt, up graded, and customized any number of times. Anyone interested, I have a line on about 6 maybe 7 older busses that can be refitted, right now. You could possibly own one, for about the same cost as the rental for a 200 day tour.
After retiring this year from 36yr as a AES FOH guy? This is simply outstanding. Most folks are clueless about tour costs, behind the scenes dollars, etc. Job well done.
After working for Motley Crue, AC/DC, Metallica, Deep Purple, Skynyrd, ARS, Lionell Ritchie, Luther Vandross, and a few others, I got off the road about 1990. At that time buses charged about $400 a day. I worked with Florida Coach drivers, Senators, Sheridan, a bus company in West Texas I can't remember the name of, and a couple of Curly Jones buses, on various tours. When Prince played Nassau Coliseum for a week, Prince flew all the drivers home and told the vendors they would pay the drivers during their week at home.
My first gig that I provided CCTV coverage at was a Prince Concert in Celtic Park in Glasgow June 1992, I was on contract to Rocksteady an Edinburgh based crowd safety and security company. It went so well I got to work many more concerts after that for them. The Prince management were a bit wary of what I was doing thinking that I was there to bootleg their music and video, However I had already caught one of the staff letting people in via a side door after crossing his palm with a wad of folding stuff. I was able to show the management the video I had recorded of what was going on and a discission was made to let the person continue and then apprehend the person at the end of the day, the person had gained over £5k in letting people in, it was a fair bit of money back in 1992.
I love this kind of video. It's so easy to turn up to a show and think the only thing going on is what's happening on stage. To me, it makes it so much more impressive knowing what needs to be done to get the band to that stage and for everything to be set up so it's an actual show and not just some sweaty dudes playing music in a dark room. I'd love to see more of this kind of content, from the technical elements of putting on a show, to the logistics of planning tours (including the extra stuff you'd need to do to take a tour abroad). Even what goes into maintaining and running a venue would be cool as well.
Great video Tank, thank you. Unless you've already done it before, it would be interesting to see a vid on how much it actually costs for a mid-sized band to do, say a 20 date theatre tour in the US. i.e. daily costs for crew, production, sound/light hire, venue costs, promoters cut etc.
I was going to ask for a similar breakdown... 👍 The average person has no idea what it costs to make these shows happen. Labels don't pay for any of it. It is all on the band.
@@chadvarnell1889 In a manner of speaking yes. The label, in many cases, pays for the expenses for a tour but the artist has to repay them. The story of Van Halen is one of the best known cases. They told the story of getting to the end of the tour, for the first album, they had sold a million copies by that point. The label let them know it was "time to get to work on the 2and album and oh by the way you owe us over a million dollars!" They were basically paid almost nothing for the album sales or the shows they played because of them withholding the money to cover the touring expenses, the expenses for recording the first album, and everybody's cut (managers, promotions/public relations, agents, etc). Of course things may have changed since then but if this weren't the case how many new bands, regardless of how big their first album might be, could afford to go on the road!
@@Axe_Slinger Clearly, if the band repays it, it is still on the band. There are a number of dirty schemes "labels" have used over the years. They front it, charge interest and own the rights to the artists work, take massive % of earnings, and more. Many bands have had albums go gold and more, had a 50 week world tour, and at the end of that year be over $100K in debt to the label. The "industry" has almost completely killed itself with greed. I have seen so many really shit things in my more than 25 years of playing music. ✌😎
@@westrig180 I have no reason to doubt you and you seem to be VERY thorough so I thank you for how things work now. In 1991 I was in a band that received a "tentative 2 record contract" from MCA, they had recently left Geffen (I've seen them joked about it standing for Music Career Assassins and such, apparently a HORRIBLE company at that time), as our guitarist's cousin was Kyle Kyle(Kiederling) the bassist of the band Bang Tango. He sent our demo to his cousin who played it for their MCA rep who apparently began dancing/swaying to it within 30 seconds of the first song. By the time the 4 song demo he got our contact info and we were to open for Bang Tango during a 6 week midwest tour (we were from Detroit) to see how "real crowds" reacted to us. I won't tell the whole "Yoko Ono-esque" story of us breaking up just under a month before our "big break" was to occur. As I understood it at the time it was a general "small band offer" that was common at the time. A 2 record deal for $50,000 and I was on "dream street" to say the least! What I found out, as there was about a 4 month time period before we were to joining the tour, was already beginning to depress me. The 50k was a LOAN, and not money we'd pocket, to record the 2 albums, I assume it was 25k for each but it could have been a lump total "account" in which we could spend as much of it on the first album and whatever was left went towards the second, we're we not dropped like a hot stone! The part that disturbed me was that that amount was what they were willing to loan us and any expenses over that they "might lend us" or we would have to pay them back from album sales, merchandise sales, tour income etc. Then to find out we would "probably get 4 points" for album sales - fairly generous because many "new bands" often only got 2, or maybe 3 points, and even the "Def Leppard's" of the world, the highest paid act we were made aware of at the time were getting 10 points. Most "established artists" at that time were getting 6-8 points. A point is 1% of 80% of the retail sale of an album. To illustrate this let's use $10 as the average price of a Casette Tape in a store. So Def Leppard would get 10%(10 points) of $8 (80% of the retail sale price of a $10 casette). So they would get 80 cents out of every $10 that a fan had spent buying their album. So in my head I'm doing the math figuring we'd have to sell at least 125,000 albums just to get out of debt for recording the album. Probably more because it was common to put albums on sale for $6,$7,$8 to try to push them up the charts for successful artists or to get rid of inventory on albums where the label FAR over-approximated how well an artist/album would do. I also figured being new, and having never been in, to a recording studio we could quite easily go over budget if one, or all, of us struggled in that setting. All of this is before having to get buses, stages, lighting, and we didn't have a clue on whatever stuff we'd need to buy to go on the road and tour. The Van Halen story was well known by this point and I think one of us even repeated the famous Eddie Van Halen quote regarding the first tour where he says he asked the record label "So we sold a million albums and we owe you $1 million? So if we had sold 3 million albums would we have owed you $3 million?". That is the extent of the knowledge I was going off of in my original post so I appreciate you taking the time to give all of us a break down on how things are from a knowledge base more extensive and more recent then what I was going off of!
I think another interesting area to look at would be tour semi-trucks for arena/stadium tours. I drove for Florence and the Machine this year & her gear needed 10 trucks. I also helped out on the Chili Peppers tour, 22 trucks there & apparently the Weeknd had 33. It's not just busses that are in high demand, it's the semi's that drive gear as well.
There's definitely an inflation problem, but I also think there are some types of businesses that are taking advantage of the situation and raising the prices just because they can. This has to be tough on bands that need to tour to have an income.
over the past several years, I've known smaller bands opt out for fiberglass motorhome RV buses in order to save costs. They would just go rent one or buy one outright. thank you for this video, Tank. If nothing else, it also lets the public know that there are calculated reasons for the prices these bands charge for a show and they are not just swimming in markup money.
This was a great breakdown! We’ve been touring consistently since February of this year. I think we had one month off. While we were ecstatic to be back on the road post-C vid, the transportation costs were eating up our budgets. We just bought 2 buses, and are in the process of updating them. We plan to rent them out when we’re not using one or the other. Hoping to get some decent paychecks from that to reinvest in our band.
Loved this. Couple of things. First, we just interviewed an artist on his bus that he actually owns. Second, I think this shortage is why you are seeing the rise of the "event" style tour, with a show each weekend rather than a fully-routed tour. (Think Gaga's Chromatica Ball, Garth's Stadium tour, Rammstein's tour with behemoth stage...). No need for busses When you have a week or two to travel. And lastly, I think the Motley/Leppard tour sucked up a LOT of availability of busses last summer. Each band member in EACH of the four marquee bands had their own busses. Plus crew busses for each band. When I saw them in Philly, Bus world was across the street from the stadium. There were AT LEAST 15-20 busses.
It's really interesting seeing how much this stuff actually costs. Thanks for this look into the touring industry. Did not expect a tour bus driver to make that much....Time to get my CDL lmao Thanks for another cool video Tank!!
Do keep in mind that is NOT what goes directly to the driver. Also, the driver is "away from home" so that also includes the "extra" (dont know what its called :-) ) daily payout the driver gets on top of his hourly sallary for being on the road. Its a wild guess but the driver gets about half of that 400.- dayrate payed out to him. If he's lucky.
@@jimmi3376 Thanks! As i said, i have no clue how its build up. I was merely pointing out that that the company where the driver works for does not pay the 100% of that fee. They take some for themselves, pay the taxes etc, whats left goes to the driver. Things like overdrive etc goes to the driver abviously. And then theres also the differance if the driver is a Owner/Operator. In that case the daypay goes 100% to the driver. Anyway...my point in short was that the daypay for a driver also is build up by different factors and that not all of it goes to the driver himself.
@@BartCockheyt my pay doesn’t fluctuate regardless of what my company is charging. Rates change everyday for a lot of reasons. I still get my $450-$525 per day depending on if I’m dragging a trailer. That never changes. I’m not sure what your point is?
@@jimmi3376 It seems things differ here. If my day payout is say 200.-, the company i work for charges 300.- to the costumer. Mind that im NOT a owner operator just a driver that gets payed by the hour and i works for a transportation company. That company gets hired, not me as a driver directly. Anyway...my point seems invalid anyway 🙂
My former longtime girlfriend, Laura, was sister to Richie McDonald, lead singer of Lonestar. We drove to Ft. Worth to see the band at Billy Bobs. During the meet and greet before the concert, Richie was noticeably absent. We walked through the lifestock pens behind Billy Bobs where bands park their buses looking for him. He was UNDERNEATH THE BUS, REPLACING THE MUFFLER. Later, he told me they owned their own bus and he did all the maintenance personally.
They're one of the few. While some artists DO own their own busses, I'd say over 95% lease them from companies so they don't have to worry about all the upkeep and maintenance.
@@TankTheTech I believe your right. Richie told me their business model wasn't touring per se', but more one-off type gigs to help balance work with family life. They had a rented facility in Nashville that afforded indoor parking for the bus and a big room for rehearsals. What cracks me up about Richie. I'd never seen him when he wasn't wearing a t-shirt. Always t-shirts. LOL
Wow there is a lot that goes into planning a tour. That was a very informative video .could you please go into more details about logistics of a tour like how does a band plan the cities they play and the route of the tour ? This is really interesting stuff ! Have a good one Tank!!!
Fantastic breakdown of the tour business. Thanks. I worked the last leg of the Scorpions Face The Heat Tour in 1994. They had 3 buses and two tractor trailers for all of their gear.
I'm an OTR truck driver, I've been thinking about purchasing a tour bus and starting a company that specifically does band tours but I wasn't sure if it would even be feasible from a financial standpoint. This is exactly the information I've been needing, so thank you very much for taking the time to break down the charges and fees associated with such an endeavor. I think I'm going to give it a shot!
This clearly is a short term shortage due to everyone trying to tour at the same time after covid. I realize trucking is terrible right now, but by the time you are able to acquire the right equipment, the rush may be over before you can pay for it all. Just keep that in mind.
One of the best pieces of content I've seen from a TH-camr, at least in the music industry context. Tank, keep them coming because, normal people don't access to these. Some other interesting topics would be, costs of guitar or drum gear per tour, pyro costs, meechandising costs, etc, thanks, cheers!
This breakdown is so interesting, after hearing Justin Hawkins talking recently about this topic it really opened my (uneducated) mind about this topic. To then come across this again broadens my understanding! Excellent video
As someone who regular goes to concerts, this content is soooooo interesting. I honestly like these kind of videos more than the reactions 😅 20$/€ for a shirt would be a dream. Unfortunately, the prices for shirts on tours have gone up significantly, at least in Europe.
Another thing I love about bands like Jinjer. Their merch is WAY cheaper that I would expect. T-shirts around $30, Hoodie for around $60 or so, and they have things like stickers for $5 for those who can't spend as much.
@@chadvarnell1889 As a 33 year old who has been mostly purchasing his casual, everyday wardrobe from shows since probably 2001….I’d say 30 for a tshirt and 60 for a hoodie at a show these days is reasonable and the right price. That is what I expect and am always willing to pay without any hesitation. Something that seemed strange to me at a show a couple months ago was that a long sleeved t shirt was 50 dollars. It was like 35, I believe, on their website tho. Ha. If a short sleeve is 30, I can get on board with 35-40 for the long sleeve. 50 seemed a little greedy tho. I will also say that it seems like the quality and fit of band merch has generally gotten better compared to what it was like when I was a teenybopper/teenager coming up. That is something I’m willing to pay a bit more for. It could also just be that things fit me better now as an adult. I went to see Slaughter to Prevail last weekend in NYC and it was awesome. Their merch was very expensive, however. $40 t shirts. They were badass, but that is too much for a shirt. Don’t get me started on Tool’s merch prices. Lol.
One of the cool things about the just-finished US tour by Band-Maid was that the crew, including the bus driver, became minor celebrities themselves amongst the fans.
They really are a very good band aren’t they? Those girls have something quite unique. When they move a bit away from metal and do their more melodic work you hear just how together they are and the lyrics often astonish me in their sophistication, given how young the band members are, although I think they have been a unit for about seven years now?
Thanks for the video Tank. I love these behind the scenes views. My brother is a diesel mechanic and he is having trouble getting even simple parts on a reasonable lead time so I wouldn’t be surprised if a bus breaking down wrecked a tour.
I remember in the mid-1980s a typical decent bus cost around $3,000 per week, which was a ridiculous amount back then. Made your old church bus and UHaul box trailer look not so bad after all.
Yep. We converted an old school bus into tour bus. Took out majority of seats and built bunks and a wall to separate gear from bunks and bunks from sitting area. We bolted down two old couches and left a few bus seats in
Very informative and solid details! Certainly an often overlooked element by the “why are shows so expensive?” fans. My brother was in a band that toured regularly during his tenure and it was always cool when they got Walter as a bus driver. They did 3 ozzfests together and he really became like family. Keep up the great work and stay well!
I drove Class 8 Tractor Trailers for just over 30 years, last 10 years hauling Production and Lighting. I was never treated with such respect and paid as well as I was on Tour. Because I ran a sleeper truck with a galley and a APU, I usually pocketed the Buy-out. Some Tours were big enough that we had A shows and B shows and leap frogged production which gave us some more travel time. We used loose leaf logbooks for Hours of Service because there was no ELD mandate yet but I was RARELY asked to drive over my hours and if it happened, I was well compensated. Did not matter if I was hauling for a Broadway Show or a Band, it was always top notch. I did a couple of runs behind the wheel of a coach because it was hauling a trailer, but I prefer cargo that doesn't talk and argue because they had a bad day and you know what I mean. Tour managers are bad enough. I have since retired and live on the yard of a Production Company in Texas and occasionally drive a fork to load some gear and act as adult in charge when everybody is out on Tour. It's been great to have all the gear out again instead of it sitting in the yard. Would not trade the experience for anything. And as always......NO pooping on the bus !!
Hey, don't forget these bands that require a bus to tour, are also soaking their opening acts for thousands of dollars. So, cut that final expense total down considerably. As you well know, it's not uncommon for LARGE acts (who make big money) to demand "buy on" monies. Several tours have been offered to my band, if we'd pay for it. As an example... 3 band bill. BIG band headlines... direct support slot for $15,000.00... opening slot for $10,000.00. Also, there's no pay for you after you pay to get on tour. Sometimes you have to match the big band's prices for merch. The opening bands are also paying for gas, and all types of road expenses too. I'm not telling you (Tank) anything you don't already know... I'm just laying out some info for people that may not be privvy to the process. I dig your channel, man... cheers!
I find this hard to believe... Given how supportive the music culture is in the industry and how much big bands historically has helped out smaller bands coming up- Kiss is a great example who helped bands like Van Halen and even Jon Bon Jovi when they were coming up!!!
Thanks for all the info in this video. I’ve been a truck driver and charter bus driver over the years. I have a 32 year clean record and all endorsements and have interviewed in the past for tour driving but so far the time away from home has kept me out of it.
Loved the video! Great content, I love that you bring realism to an often glamorized trade. Not to say you aren’t glamorous, because you are! A few video ideas I would love: A video listing all the different roles/jobs and their responsibilities/duties, I assume it will vary tour to tour and band to band. But a general overview of all the potential jobs. What sort of experience do bands/artists/managers like to see for each job? A video on what a typical back stage environment is like throughout the day of a show? Are there common areas where people mingle? Do artists/crew mingle with each other? How close to show time do bands usually start to gather side stage before they play? Are bands at the venue all day waiting to play? How would they normally fill their day? An etiquette video. Is there etiquette to walking around a stage? Walking around back stage? Do’s and don’ts if a fan finds themselves back stage? How best to meet a band? The do’s and don’ts if you find yourself face to face with a band? Bus etiquette? Back/On Stage etiquette? General questions: difference between a manager and tour manager? Differences between a tour manager/manager and a booking agent? Difference between an Engineer and Producer? Keep ‘em coming! It’s Satan’s work you’re doing!
great and informative video! it puts into perspective how big and expensive of an ordeal touring is. I'd love if you covered different aspects of being a band and what it actually means and how much some things cost when/if you felt like it. you see a lot of people making comments that clearly show they have no idea (not accusing them, it's not general knowledge) how much goes on behind the scenes, how bands really make money and that touring, releasing an album or even putting out merch isn't as easy (or cheap) as they think. I've always wondered: do bands lose money when they have to cancel a tour that was already in production and is there's insurance for that?
That's why tickets aren't $8,50 anymore ! That was back in the 70's pretty much all general addmittion! But those were the days and alot of great groups tourd constantly! Great video! Very in depth!
Thanks for this. It's a thing that people often don't think about when going to shows. Makes it extra special that a band like Machine Head are doing a tour around the US playing small venues, some limited to only 250 people. Shows that they really care about bringing the music to the fans even if they may not make a profit on it.
Thanks for the transparency! This is why most new artists i discover aren’t bands. It’s so expensive to tour and perform. Some bands just opt to do local shows and twitch concerts too. I had no idea it could cost like 69k/month for a tour bus. That’s an insane amount of money. But at least it includes all labor and stuff. I know many bands who post about looking for drivers to drive on tour. These numbers seem like pro drivers not just your buddy who wants to drive with you, which is good that they are provided! When i went on tour with a band as a sound engineer it was an awful experience because it was an RV with awful “mattresses” and i just couldn’t sleep (plus no real showers). If we were put up in hotels or had a more comfortable tour bus I’m sure it would be easier, but still super brutal. I give mad props to any artist who does regular touring or is part of the crew. I see more and more bands just doing festival circuits too.
thank you for this. it was really informative for someone like me who's just a casual fan/concertgoer. i knew expenses added up, but didn't realize they could be that high for something as vital as transportation. i like these and your interviews just as much as your reactions, because they're more than just fun and interesting info. you're really helping to spread the word about being a supportive listener. after watching your adam de micco video, i went straight to their site and bought a hoodie (even though i have a ton of them) specifically to try and do my bit to help them out. and then i ordered their album 😊
Good video! As someone who approves invoicing for contractor hourly rates I think it’s important to understand the driver probably isn’t taking home 15-20k. Presumably they have benefits etc and the 15-20k is the cost for what the company needs to charge to cover the drivers time and benefits, workers comp costs, liability insurance costs etc and make sure the company will get their profit margin as well. The hourly rates I see when I’m invoiced are definitely not what their actual hourly pay rates are. And yes, you can generally count on estimates coming in low.
Drivers are on a 1099,your a contractor,not an employee also no benifits the Band pays the driver throw someone out of the bunk,start looking for your own way home,your Gone
Nicely done, bro. So true how the cost of a tour has skyrocketed. Especially for a shed or arena tour with larger crews and multiple trucks of production. Concertgoers don't really realize the logistics and the expense. My Mom passed earlier this year, and while grieving and handling everything afterward, I missed the boat it seems. By the time I started looking for a gig in late July, all the TM/PMs I know were crewed, and Bobnet only seems to have ads for "Young Guns" paying $250 a day. I'm an old-timer I reckon (can't believe I'm saying that! lol!) and while I'm not a white glover, my days of humping gear, climbing truss/ladders, and pushing cases up ramps are over. I'm an LD/Master Electrician, so, I'm not going back to 1980s pay. Hopefully, I'll finally get back to work! Looks like I'll have to wait till next year when the dust settles, as the back-to-school season is over. Love the channel, man. Great insight for folks on both sides of the velvet rope!
I love hearing about the business end of the music industry, the nuts and bolts of things, how it all really works. Moral of the story is if you enter into the life of a musician, do it because it’s your passion, don’t do it for the money because only a very small few make a fortune, many just barely eek out a modest living. It’s an investment with very low chance of any type of returns.
Spotting and posting photos of the Band-Maid bus was kind of a thing, on this recent U.S. tour. I was standing right next to it, while waiting for doors to open in Seattle, and it was sweet! I caught a couple of glimpses inside, as support staff disembarked, but I didn't see any of the maids. No idea what it cost them, but it couldn't have been cheap.
My suspicion is that their label sees overseas touring as more of a promotional expense than an actual profit-making endeavor. If they can cover their costs and sell out venues, that's valuable in and of itself so they can go on Japanese radio programs and variety shows to talk about their sold-out American tour.
I have an uncle that is a country artist. They've lived in Nashville since the 80s and he's had a great career but he's also a very skilled carpenter. When he's not playing or touring, he does custom tour bus builds. I'm not going to start name dropping but think of the biggest stars of the last 15 years and he probably built their busses.
That was really interesting, thank you tank. I never thought about this but you are right. Touring is an expensive thing, and getting a little inside helps to understand. I had tickets for the Majestica Christmas tour in December and was very disappointed when they cancelled. Now I do understand better what happened. Still hope that they di their tour some time later. Thank you Tank for this input
Very interesting, Tank. I never realized how much goes into getting a band from one show to the next. It would be interesting to hear about the other expenses related to touring. For example, how are the venues paid for?
I'm an old ex Memphis Hair band Frontman from the 80"s and 90's who like most of my buddies, never got a deal, never made a penny, and eventually had to return to the real world. Had 3 tunes on the radio in 1990 but couldn't get them pushed nationally due to not being signed by a big label. Some of my buddies made moderate money after signing but that was the best case scenario. I still have friends who are hired guns for big acts and one in particular has spent 23 years and counting with a late 70's and 80's Mega band who tours almost continually. He said the tv screen in the motor coach's gets awful small when your sharing it with 10 other guys. Another great topic sir! Thank you for all you do!
These videos are awesome, thank you for the insight. Many people in the comments already wish for new videos on touring costs, and I'd like to add the (possible) role of a label in all of this. Like, if they see their band as a long-term investment (especially if it's already a somewhat bigger band like Electric Callboy) and cover these costs no matter what, or if the band can end up with massive debt due to risky label deals. You have already talked about that briefly for tour-buyons some time ago and I think that it would be interesting to dive a little deeper into that subject.
I always heard that band don't go on tour to make money and i can understand it alot more with this information. I know touring cost alot but not this much for only one part of touring. Would be fun if you made other video's on other parts of costs with touring
I could swear that back in the day, the wisdom is that touring and merch sales is where bands made their money because album sales was rarely a significant source of income.
@@witeshade so actual back in the day, bands toured to promote album sales which is where the bulk of money came from. Now, (well pre covid as I haven't been on the road since before the shutdown) bands made their money on touring and merch sales. That's why merch prices have gotten so high is because bands don't make money off their music (there's always exceptions).
@@JustJoshLTRB Yup and back in the early 2000s, you could get tour support money from the record label which covered all the agreed tour costs - crew, buses, flights, hotels, per diems, etc - which used to take a bit of haggling. When I was prepping budgets you included everything including consumables such as strings, sticks, drumskins, you name it. Then as we moved into the 2010s and album sales made much less for labels (never made anything for the bands except for publishing income anyway in general), then the tour support money disappeared and you suddenly had to cut the crew a bit, increase the guarantees from promoters (which started pushing up ticket prices) and employ professionals to handle merch and/or do a deal with a merch company to handle touring and online merch sales. Then for a while, touring was the way bands made their money (which, of course, the labels now instead of giving money to support the tours, they expected a hefty cut of profits which came out before the band got their split). Now? With so much supply over demand for live music, as every band tries to tour all year long to survive, and venues are struggling as well (or closing down completely) again, musicians are back in the meat grinder with nowhere to go to make a living. Unless you've got a massive hit record or dedicated following, I really have no idea how bands can make any kind of living from their music and performance these days. And Josh, you're 100% right - without selling merch at gigs (for which some venues charge a ridiculous percentage fee of up to 30%!!!) then it really is a shitshow. But the ticket prices keep going up, the music industry still makes $billions each year but the creators get less and less each year. I have no solution to offer as the megacorps are not going to suddenly start offering better deals to musicians while the money keeps pouring in for them and their shareholders.
Depends on the size of the band... Small local acts don't tour to make money. National acts make the majority of their money touring. Let the megacorps keep their legacy acts and megastars... Everyone else will end up at small niche labels. 40 years later those small companies will be merged inyo megacorps.
I was bummed when an Icelandic band cancelled their EU tour due to 'post covid logistics' but now I understand why (not even including the risk of someone getting sick or possibly shows cancelled due to local lockdowns)
Did a 5 week UK/EU tour recently (4 months ago) mid 2022 had to call in the only tour bus and trailer available from Germany due to no availability at our usual bus hire company in London to collect our tour group of 10, double level,16 bunk (including driver's bunk), full kitchen, upper and lower lounge areas, Netflix, wifi, fully stocked fridge (sodas, water, milk etc) cost 60k for the whole tour. 2 weeks after that tour we hit the USA for 5 weeks, not a single bus available due to all being hired out for the Burning Man festival and we tried 4 months prior. Ended having to hire a 9 bunk band wagon plus trailer, our merch guy and tour manager shared the driving, the shower room at a hotel was the 10th and 11th bunk for whoever wanted a break from the wagon. Half the size of a tour bus, not stocked but 3x cheaper. Better suited for small sized bands and not a 10 body tour group as there's NO space if you travel with your usual tour setup (luggage, carry-on, extra stuff) you pretty much have to downsize to accommodate for the smaller space. On a 5 week tour in Australia at the moment,. No tour bus available so it's 2x 8 seater vehicles (driving duties shared) 4 passengers per vehicle, 1 super transport van for backline driving shared between sound guy and tour manager. 2 bedroom 4 bed hotel apartments with laundry and kitchen facilities or basic 2 bed hotel rooms. Still cheaper than hiring a tour bus just more annoying checking in to accom. 2022 is a crazy time to tour.
Great video. People often bemoan the cost of ticket prices for big acts. But when you look at the sheer cost of the logistics involved its hard to argue against it. Cost of the bus alone demonstrates this well. Logistics in general is a huge headache.
I thought my merch money went for food, gas, etc.; but for the life of me I never considered bus & trailer rental and all the other stuff you mentioned. Now I guess I won’t complain about a $45-50 tour shirt or $100 hoodie as often. Plus I heard that every time a band carried merch across the Canadian border - both ways - they had to pay certain fees for that too.
Thank you so much. I stumbled across this video and i think this may be the reason why a couple of the bands i wanted to see this year canceled last minute. Specifically one band said they could not get the logistics solved with the other supporting band. If it is the case that if both bands even shared the same bus. i would not be surprised they could not afford those prices.
Duuude, this info and content is AWESOME! Really breaks it down for everyone. I've done some touring and NOTHIN like this. More that "5 dudes in a car, guitars, and using another bands backline" kinda shit...alwayz my dream to see the States thru a bus window, not there yet. Great episode. I did an episode recently on European metal tours being canceled for this very reason. Sad!!...Stay rad Tank!! 🦇🕷🤘 -J.s.
Watching this video made me go back and look up old invoices. Found one from 2016, 52 days not counting fuel, 58k. Notable differences: $250/day for driver $50/day for trailer $10/day ifta No internet , Verizon gave me a Hotspot with my plan at the time and seeing as band paid my phone bill we used that. No satellite cost as I had them throw that in after the bus we put a deposit on was given to someone else. It's crazy to see basically getting half of what we used to for same price.
Great video man! I guess when you're looking at your budget, you can either afford to tour, or you can't. There's no getting around the bottom line. That's why it's at the bottom. Lol! I can imagine doing a tour and winding up in debt. In fact, I can imagine that happens frequently. Maybe? When you discuss the financial side of this business, it's extremely interesting and often surprising. Tell us more! Peace brother.
That was an excellent breakdown . I have been involved with the financial side of a band for the past 18 years and hiring a Bus has sometimes been difficult especially 2022 -fun - and some times chaotic. If your a nine months of the year touring band there are distinct advantages to maybe ownership of a Trailer even eventually a bus but touring for 3-4 months then go straight to the Hiring mode and be happy with a fairly safe fixed overhead . If you own your own trailer remember any problems on the road are the TM’s problem to solve not the Bus company . I am never quite sure that the Payroll administration fee makes a lot of sense as I have always wondered why the Bus company does not build it into the daily rate ? If you find a good Bus company then stick with them as that can become a strong relationship and remember when your all on the bus and rolling the most important person will be the driver so respect and understanding from crew and band members is very important and yes there will maybe be a need to tell people to tidy up and occasionally shut up . Just as an aside many European buses to me are so much better as they are bigger [ double decked ] have the wash room on a separate floor from the bunks , have articulated rear wheels and just give a roomier feel . Last but not least and to repeat if in fact your keen to become an owner operator that is entirely another business and consequently another set of rules and administration which might take away from your primary objective to be a band on tour .
The "roadie" content is so much better than the reaction content. Ty for the insights you give us with this little "series" about how things work on tour and behind the scenes!
I used to work for a major metal act on tour (won’t mention the name) in the early 90s. This is old news. Drugs won’t get you broke ( you couldn’t do that much and survive). However, Fueling semis, tour buses, paying hotels and union penalties will. Remember MC Hammer? We stayed at the same hotel as him one night. That man, God bless him had 10 tour buses and a 100 plus crew. Hmm, wonder why he’s broke now. The dude, had 20 to 30 stage dancers alone..
In 2013 or 14, I was working for a classic rock artist that was doing a radio show that MC Hammer was on... Dude STILL had 20 backup dancers, and we were all wondering how he was able to pay anyone.
@@TankTheTech Unfortunately, Hammer fell into that "trap" of trying to bring everybody along or "save everybody" if you will. Giving people jobs "DANCERS" and other "Hanger on's" from his past. Putting people on payroll just because. Nice gesture but you just can't do it. He's good people though. However, he was the poster child in the buisness of "WHAT NOT TO DO" back then.
As a tour bus driver myself, I thought this video is pretty spot on!!! Next time a tour manger asks me about pricing I will show them this video!!! Safe travels and rock on!!!
The other thing you didn’t mention is scheduling- a lot of tours are booked so you HAVE to drive overnight between shows, which is impossible on a van tour.
Yep. If you have a show in Cleveland and then a show in Kansas City the next, you can’t Van it. You need to have a bus and a driver to drive immediately after the show so they can get there in time and camp can sleep.
Talk about an eye opener. Soooooo many people complain about ticket prices and merch prices. THIS PERFECTLY EXPLAINS why! Then again they would complain still no matter what.
Had to show this video to a few coworkers. Shania Twain is coming to my town (East coast Canada) and people have not stopped complaining about the minimum ticket price. Super informative! 👌
Yowza! That was eye-opening. I've always wondered what bus rentals were. As I recall, back in the 70's, when KISS had a huge tour, they bought (or started) a trucking company so that some of those huge costs would end up back in their own pockets.
I went to see L7 this past October. With all the bands that were on tour, they had to fly in to Nashville from LA just to get a bus. That meant their equipment had to be delivered separately, which wasn’t cheap. They had Covid protocols the whole tour so if one got sick, they were screwed. Thankfully it was a very profitable tour and no one got sick.
I was so excited to finally see Howard Jones (Light The Torch) for the first time, and then they announced that because of a tour bus difficulty, they had to cancel their tour with GWAR. I was really sad, but hopefully, I can see them someday... but at least I still got to see GWAR.♥️
"It's crazy that I couldn't rent a bus, from a company that tends to rent out multiple rigs, for a band that basically nobody has ever heard of." Rough. That's just rough. 🤣
It must be extremely difficult for regional bands or smaller acts to even go on the road for just a couple of days. That's why I'm a firm believer of supporting that act or acts because it's extremely difficult to make a living.
I drove tour buses for over 20 years. I started out as tour manager but when I saw what drivers were making I made the transition. Also just so you know we never liked to be called "bus" drivers. We preferred coach drivers but maybe that's changed since my last tour in 2001. My overdrives were set at 450 miles and I made a LOT of money on overdrives. I also got per diem every day. On the major tours that was sometimes as much as $50 a day.
@@The_Sound_Doctor1957 you realize this is actual information that's true right? I'm guessing no, the per diem...which means per day, refers to the per day standard tax deduction when not itemizing traveling expense for a job that requires you to be away from home. Such as meals, laundry at a laundromat on the road ect ect. The government used to make a standard daily deduction of 80% of about $55.00 dollars a day. That was a massive deduction for those that worked on the road. Now essentially everyone gets the same deduction. Look it up. Now I'll laugh...at you..for being ignorant. 😀 😃 🙂
@@adamfrbs9259 Trump is a lying, adulterous, stealing, bigoted, racist, moron. How many tours have you been on? You have no idea about the reality but just like Trump you run your mouth like you do.
Back in the 80's I worked on a national tour for a season. My partner, John Killer, spent time learning to drive a bus. He was a rock solid driver and saw the perks a driver received like a single room. Also the pay did not hurt. Next season with a freshly minted bus driver's license he became a tour bus driver.
Makes me curious as to why bands just don't outright buy the bus. They might still have to pay for the driver(s), but one would think by time they get onto say a 3rd tour, they would be better off. Specially when some tours in North America can go 7-9 months of the year.
buses are big investments, maintaining them, fuel tax, repairs, all the systems, plumbing, electrical, fuel, drivers, payroll, down to things like cleanings supplies and 12 sheets pillow cases and comforters, it just doesn't make financial sense if you only tour 60-80 days a year
Think about it a bit more 1 check out the prices of tour buses new and used and you might be surprised in the wrong way . 2. You have to include a driver who is always available for you which might make them a permanent salaried employee. 3. Mechanical problems on the road might require a replacement BUS and that is easier if your hiring from a solid company and pretty much impossible for your one bus operation . Our bands first NA tour back in 2002 required a rebuilt engine for the 8 seater van not an easy experience but part of the History . Take the stress out of the stressful business of touring hiring us not a crime .
Maybe not. Range might be a problem. They’d probably spend more time charging the damn thing than on the road. Plus, an EV tour bus likely an expensive proposition to rent.
This info is great. Can you do a ESTIMATE of income for different level bands (like 1000 seats per city ) how do they get paid ? Is it ticket sales only ,100%? Do booking agents /companies have guarantees or flat rates ? Pros and cons of booking national chains (HOB) or local owned venues ?
Great video. This is the driver who commented a video or so ago. I'm sure after posting my take on touring and what I made as a driver, some people probably thought I was full of shit. This video clearly shows I was not. $400 a day. The weekly services, generator, linens, bus washes, goes to us, which we get $36 a day. So, our total daily pay is $436 a day, unless we are deadheading. Those deadhead days we get hotel buyouts of $125. So, the days we are deadheading, our daily rate is $561. As you mentioned, we get this every day, from the day we leave our office until the day we get back to our office. Regardless if it is a day off or not, we get paid. Again, great video!
Thank you for your insight, man! I pinned this comment because I want people to see feedback from an ACTUAL full time driver. A lot of people have tried to dispute some things that were on this estimate, saying that the company collects a lot of that "driver day rate" and the bus drivers don't actually get paid that much. As you can see, they do, and rightly so. There's A LOT of work that goes into being a driver, especially when the safety and comfort of everyone riding the bus is in their hands on a daily/nightly basis.
bus drivers never have off day, if you don't go to the bus daily, and clean, take out the trash and make sure the bus is ok, then you owe the company that days pay back.
Im just a music fan.. im retired.. i pick some guitar w/local friends .. ive known a guy for over 45yrs now.. He was Tour Manager for Alan Jackson for about 12 yrs.. He Tour Managed for Jo Dee Messina also..
He is Tony Stephens.. last few yrs he was Technical Services Director at the Grand Ole Opry. Tony just recently retired and has moved back to his Hometown in Alabama..
Ive met him a few times for lunch & supper when he would get a lil break & able to take a few days to visit home.. (AJ used to take the Summers off from Touring to spend time with his 3 daughters while they were out of School)
Tony has told me before that folks just really couldn't comprehend ALL the details that go into "Managing" a Tour.. i understand what he was talking about now!!
Tank, Have you ever met Tony Stephens?.. He is an EXTREMELY talented musician also.. on multiple instruments!!
$400 per day? That surprises me, because a Teamster driver for your typical one hour cop show will make more than that. Driver captain for Netflix's "Nancy Drew" makes $38.49 per hour for the first 8 hours... and the average day is 12 hours. Do you load in and out and are you Teamster?
What i´m interested in: Does that mean you´re self employed or do the fees go directly to you but you´re still employed by the tour bus company?
That's why I refuse to by a tour shirt from some guy outside the venue for $15 bucks. I would rather buy the shirt inside at a stand and pay $30 to $35 bucks, because I know I'm helping the band pay it's bills for entertainment they worked so hard for me to enjoy. Nice video Tank!
People outside selling shirts are bootleggers. The shirts aren't official or have anything to do with the bands at all. You're basically just giving your money to someone that literally has nothing to do with the band.
The production costs are why I budget at least $200 per show I attend to buy merch. I want the bands I love to make money and keep touring!
I think I've maybe seen that one time, you must not go to shows that aren't in arenas
This was part of my responsibilities in identifying the bootleggers and having security/police waiting for them at events. Between the bootleggers and the drug dealers and the occasional attempted murder it kept me too busy at the event to listen to the music :)
If you really want the band to pay their bills, why don't you just open your wallet or your rainbow colored man purse, and give the band ALL your money. Eat a can of worms, while you allow the band members to eat 8 inch thick bacon wrapped fillet mignon, and wash it down with cases of Dom Perignon champagne, or Crown Royal. You'd rather make millionaires bigger millionaires instead of helping a blue collar working stiff, selling $15 dollar tee shirts, trying to make enough money to buy a pound of bologna or a pound of cheap hotdogs to feed his family hamburger helper, and wash it down with a glass of lead based water. You are a certified moron that comes with a certificate of authenticity. Well, Congratulations dipshit, and shit for brains. You are the newest member of the Class of 2023 Dumbass Hall of Fame.
Former touring musician here. We used a bandwagon, which is a great alternative to a bus for mid-size bands/artists. I can say another huge reason bands and artists choose a bus or bandwagon is the health aspect. Even before Covid, it was very easy to get sick or overtired (which leads to accidents) when you have 5-8 people stuck in a van. And in a van, you're either hiring a driver to drive your van around at night or taking shifts driving which leads to the crew and band being sick or run down or overtired... which can lead to accidents or shows being cancelled because people are sick so those aspects are huge as well
Axe Muder Boyz had to cancel the tour they were on, because they flipped there van. More than likely on a straight stretch which can make you a lil sleepy as well, than a road with slight turns to keep you more alert.
There's also the fact that it can sometimes save on lodging costs.
@@Tim85-y2q That doesn't really matter. What's important is the fact, that it allows you to cover much longer distances because the driver drives you to the next location while your sleeping. You often wake being right at the front door of the next place you're playing which gives you enough time to unload your gear, eat, maybe relax, go for a dander. If you're touring in a van there's no way you can do it night after night after night. You need a proper bed otherwise you go nuts.
You do realize covid is a LIE right?! They planned it for 80 years!
I’ve never done a van tour so I don’t know but pre Covid every bus tour id ever done was usually just me and everyone else being sick on the bus. Lol. So idk how much better the health aspect gets.
This was a great breakdown of this part of entertainment cost, Tank! A quick comment about something you mentioned briefly: because of COVID, many of these busses sat in bus yards for the greater part of two years w/ no maintenance. I was on tour this spring helping to finish out the last 15 days a 35 day tour. Over those 15 days, we had 10 breakdowns between two of our three busses. I was informed when I arrived on tour that they had already gone through 10 different busses and 3 different leasing companies. We were fortunate to have three busses, so we would stuff everyone between two and sometimes rent a truck to go on to the venue while the bus was fixed. We managed to make every show, but we were limping to the finish line (we literally left the piano and PA on the side of the road on our way to the last show.) Cancelling shows is a huge blow to a band's budget, and even if a bus company were to refund the bus cost for that time, it wouldn't replace the cost of the gear rental for the day, or any of the other logistics that factors into budgeting.
Not to mention the fact that those buses weren't out working for that time and now have to make that money back.
Was it mostly emmissions garbage causing the breakdown?
@@dw9034 it’s called “lot rot.” Cars, trucks, busses are all subject to the gaskets, and hoses etc drying out because of a lack of use. Even tires, the tread may be good, but the sidewalls get brittle. I was a OTR driver and generally averaged 7.3-7.8 miles per gallon, and you figure that you can average 60 miles per hour X’s 10 hours, you can expect to drive at most 600 miles per day. Construction, fatality accidents, snow storms, road closures, you name it and you will have to deal with it when you can least afford it. So a good average distance to calculate is based on 50 mph, or 500 miles. This allows for a driver to go out of route to bypass a storm, or in the event of a 2-3 hour shut down because of a fatality accident etc. you can bank on $400-500 in diesel per 10 hour shift. $12-14000 fuel cost.
Shane Mullet, 😂😂😂 I had a mullet in the 90’s when I lived in Nashville.
@@dw9034 YES!!!! The "emissions" and electronics make these newer busses a nightmare on rubber. I'm right now looking at the late 80s early 90s ones with "mechanical" components simply for the reliability factor. Most of my owner operator truck driver friends are looking at replacing newer trucks with older ones they've rebuilt themselves. Busses like trucks are just a solid frame with bolt on components that can be rebuilt, up graded, and customized any number of times.
Anyone interested, I have a line on about 6 maybe 7 older busses that can be refitted, right now. You could possibly own one, for about the same cost as the rental for a 200 day tour.
After retiring this year from 36yr as a AES FOH guy? This is simply outstanding. Most folks are clueless about tour costs, behind the scenes dollars, etc. Job well done.
Thanks a ton, man!
Bands also make ALOT MORE than they let on as well. It’s insulting.
After working for Motley Crue, AC/DC, Metallica, Deep Purple, Skynyrd, ARS, Lionell Ritchie, Luther Vandross, and a few others, I got off the road about 1990. At that time buses charged about $400 a day. I worked with Florida Coach drivers, Senators, Sheridan, a bus company in West Texas I can't remember the name of, and a couple of Curly Jones buses, on various tours. When Prince played Nassau Coliseum for a week, Prince flew all the drivers home and told the vendors they would pay the drivers during their week at home.
Damn, man! Always enjoy hearing stuff from more seasoned roadies than myself. Crazy how times have changed!
My first gig that I provided CCTV coverage at was a Prince Concert in Celtic Park in Glasgow June 1992, I was on contract to Rocksteady an Edinburgh based crowd safety and security company. It went so well I got to work many more concerts after that for them. The Prince management were a bit wary of what I was doing thinking that I was there to bootleg their music and video, However I had already caught one of the staff letting people in via a side door after crossing his palm with a wad of folding stuff. I was able to show the management the video I had recorded of what was going on and a discission was made to let the person continue and then apprehend the person at the end of the day, the person had gained over £5k in letting people in, it was a fair bit of money back in 1992.
I love this kind of video. It's so easy to turn up to a show and think the only thing going on is what's happening on stage. To me, it makes it so much more impressive knowing what needs to be done to get the band to that stage and for everything to be set up so it's an actual show and not just some sweaty dudes playing music in a dark room. I'd love to see more of this kind of content, from the technical elements of putting on a show, to the logistics of planning tours (including the extra stuff you'd need to do to take a tour abroad). Even what goes into maintaining and running a venue would be cool as well.
Great video Tank, thank you.
Unless you've already done it before, it would be interesting to see a vid on how much it actually costs for a mid-sized band to do, say a 20 date theatre tour in the US. i.e. daily costs for crew, production, sound/light hire, venue costs, promoters cut etc.
I was going to ask for a similar breakdown... 👍 The average person has no idea what it costs to make these shows happen. Labels don't pay for any of it. It is all on the band.
@@chadvarnell1889 In a manner of speaking yes. The label, in many cases, pays for the expenses for a tour but the artist has to repay them. The story of Van Halen is one of the best known cases. They told the story of getting to the end of the tour, for the first album, they had sold a million copies by that point. The label let them know it was "time to get to work on the 2and album and oh by the way you owe us over a million dollars!" They were basically paid almost nothing for the album sales or the shows they played because of them withholding the money to cover the touring expenses, the expenses for recording the first album, and everybody's cut (managers, promotions/public relations, agents, etc).
Of course things may have changed since then but if this weren't the case how many new bands, regardless of how big their first album might be, could afford to go on the road!
@@Axe_Slinger Clearly, if the band repays it, it is still on the band. There are a number of dirty schemes "labels" have used over the years. They front it, charge interest and own the rights to the artists work, take massive % of earnings, and more. Many bands have had albums go gold and more, had a 50 week world tour, and at the end of that year be over $100K in debt to the label. The "industry" has almost completely killed itself with greed. I have seen so many really shit things in my more than 25 years of playing music. ✌😎
This would be great!
@@westrig180 I have no reason to doubt you and you seem to be VERY thorough so I thank you for how things work now. In 1991 I was in a band that received a "tentative 2 record contract" from MCA, they had recently left Geffen (I've seen them joked about it standing for Music Career Assassins and such, apparently a HORRIBLE company at that time), as our guitarist's cousin was Kyle Kyle(Kiederling) the bassist of the band Bang Tango. He sent our demo to his cousin who played it for their MCA rep who apparently began dancing/swaying to it within 30 seconds of the first song. By the time the 4 song demo he got our contact info and we were to open for Bang Tango during a 6 week midwest tour (we were from Detroit) to see how "real crowds" reacted to us. I won't tell the whole "Yoko Ono-esque" story of us breaking up just under a month before our "big break" was to occur.
As I understood it at the time it was a general "small band offer" that was common at the time. A 2 record deal for $50,000 and I was on "dream street" to say the least! What I found out, as there was about a 4 month time period before we were to joining the tour, was already beginning to depress me. The 50k was a LOAN, and not money we'd pocket, to record the 2 albums, I assume it was 25k for each but it could have been a lump total "account" in which we could spend as much of it on the first album and whatever was left went towards the second, we're we not dropped like a hot stone! The part that disturbed me was that that amount was what they were willing to loan us and any expenses over that they "might lend us" or we would have to pay them back from album sales, merchandise sales, tour income etc. Then to find out we would "probably get 4 points" for album sales - fairly generous because many "new bands" often only got 2, or maybe 3 points, and even the "Def Leppard's" of the world, the highest paid act we were made aware of at the time were getting 10 points. Most "established artists" at that time were getting 6-8 points. A point is 1% of 80% of the retail sale of an album. To illustrate this let's use $10 as the average price of a Casette Tape in a store. So Def Leppard would get 10%(10 points) of $8 (80% of the retail sale price of a $10 casette). So they would get 80 cents out of every $10 that a fan had spent buying their album.
So in my head I'm doing the math figuring we'd have to sell at least 125,000 albums just to get out of debt for recording the album. Probably more because it was common to put albums on sale for $6,$7,$8 to try to push them up the charts for successful artists or to get rid of inventory on albums where the label FAR over-approximated how well an artist/album would do. I also figured being new, and having never been in, to a recording studio we could quite easily go over budget if one, or all, of us struggled in that setting.
All of this is before having to get buses, stages, lighting, and we didn't have a clue on whatever stuff we'd need to buy to go on the road and tour. The Van Halen story was well known by this point and I think one of us even repeated the famous Eddie Van Halen quote regarding the first tour where he says he asked the record label "So we sold a million albums and we owe you $1 million? So if we had sold 3 million albums would we have owed you $3 million?".
That is the extent of the knowledge I was going off of in my original post so I appreciate you taking the time to give all of us a break down on how things are from a knowledge base more extensive and more recent then what I was going off of!
I think another interesting area to look at would be tour semi-trucks for arena/stadium tours. I drove for Florence and the Machine this year & her gear needed 10 trucks. I also helped out on the Chili Peppers tour, 22 trucks there & apparently the Weeknd had 33. It's not just busses that are in high demand, it's the semi's that drive gear as well.
The Weeknd getting 33 semis while Archspire tours in a broken down van just doesn't feel quite right to me...
There's definitely an inflation problem, but I also think there are some types of businesses that are taking advantage of the situation and raising the prices just because they can. This has to be tough on bands that need to tour to have an income.
no there not lol, if prices go up for fuel, labor rates, maintenance rates, they charge more. Its common sense
Evil doesn't have a leg to stand on without stupid people buying in. Humanity is a human centipede
over the past several years, I've known smaller bands opt out for fiberglass motorhome RV buses in order to save costs.
They would just go rent one or buy one outright.
thank you for this video, Tank.
If nothing else, it also lets the public know that there are calculated reasons for the prices these bands charge for a show and they are not just swimming in markup money.
This was a great breakdown! We’ve been touring consistently since February of this year. I think we had one month off. While we were ecstatic to be back on the road post-C vid, the transportation costs were eating up our budgets. We just bought 2 buses, and are in the process of updating them. We plan to rent them out when we’re not using one or the other. Hoping to get some decent paychecks from that to reinvest in our band.
What band
Loved this. Couple of things. First, we just interviewed an artist on his bus that he actually owns. Second, I think this shortage is why you are seeing the rise of the "event" style tour, with a show each weekend rather than a fully-routed tour. (Think Gaga's Chromatica Ball, Garth's Stadium tour, Rammstein's tour with behemoth stage...). No need for busses When you have a week or two to travel. And lastly, I think the Motley/Leppard tour sucked up a LOT of availability of busses last summer. Each band member in EACH of the four marquee bands had their own busses. Plus crew busses for each band. When I saw them in Philly, Bus world was across the street from the stadium. There were AT LEAST 15-20 busses.
To be fair, weekend (event) style tours have been going on for decades. Country has been doing it forever, and we were still on tours busses doing it.
It's like skillet who I believe own their own tour bus
It's really interesting seeing how much this stuff actually costs. Thanks for this look into the touring industry. Did not expect a tour bus driver to make that much....Time to get my CDL lmao
Thanks for another cool video Tank!!
Do keep in mind that is NOT what goes directly to the driver. Also, the driver is "away from home" so that also includes the "extra" (dont know what its called :-) ) daily payout the driver gets on top of his hourly sallary for being on the road. Its a wild guess but the driver gets about half of that 400.- dayrate payed out to him. If he's lucky.
@@jimmi3376 Thanks! As i said, i have no clue how its build up. I was merely pointing out that that the company where the driver works for does not pay the 100% of that fee. They take some for themselves, pay the taxes etc, whats left goes to the driver. Things like overdrive etc goes to the driver abviously. And then theres also the differance if the driver is a Owner/Operator. In that case the daypay goes 100% to the driver. Anyway...my point in short was that the daypay for a driver also is build up by different factors and that not all of it goes to the driver himself.
@@BartCockheyt Errrr....I don't think you understand what he said. He just stated that he does, in fact, get all of that money.
@@BartCockheyt my pay doesn’t fluctuate regardless of what my company is charging. Rates change everyday for a lot of reasons. I still get my $450-$525 per day depending on if I’m dragging a trailer. That never changes. I’m not sure what your point is?
@@jimmi3376 It seems things differ here. If my day payout is say 200.-, the company i work for charges 300.- to the costumer. Mind that im NOT a owner operator just a driver that gets payed by the hour and i works for a transportation company. That company gets hired, not me as a driver directly. Anyway...my point seems invalid anyway 🙂
My former longtime girlfriend, Laura, was sister to Richie McDonald, lead singer of Lonestar.
We drove to Ft. Worth to see the band at Billy Bobs.
During the meet and greet before the concert, Richie was noticeably absent. We walked through the lifestock pens behind Billy Bobs where bands park their buses looking for him. He was UNDERNEATH THE BUS, REPLACING THE MUFFLER.
Later, he told me they owned their own bus and he did all the maintenance personally.
They're one of the few. While some artists DO own their own busses, I'd say over 95% lease them from companies so they don't have to worry about all the upkeep and maintenance.
@@TankTheTech
I believe your right. Richie told me their business model wasn't touring per se', but more one-off type gigs to help balance work with family life.
They had a rented facility in Nashville that afforded indoor parking for the bus and a big room for rehearsals.
What cracks me up about Richie. I'd never seen him when he wasn't wearing a t-shirt. Always t-shirts. LOL
Wow there is a lot that goes into planning a tour. That was a very informative video .could you please go into more details about logistics of a tour like how does a band plan the cities they play and the route of the tour ? This is really interesting stuff ! Have a good one Tank!!!
Me before the video: I want to start a band so this will be good to know
Me after the video: googles "how to become bus a driver?"
Fantastic breakdown of the tour business. Thanks. I worked the last leg of the Scorpions Face The Heat Tour in 1994. They had 3 buses and two tractor trailers for all of their gear.
I'm an OTR truck driver, I've been thinking about purchasing a tour bus and starting a company that specifically does band tours but I wasn't sure if it would even be feasible from a financial standpoint. This is exactly the information I've been needing, so thank you very much for taking the time to break down the charges and fees associated with such an endeavor. I think I'm going to give it a shot!
I'm guessing you would need to know people in the business and have well established connections to make that work.
This clearly is a short term shortage due to everyone trying to tour at the same time after covid. I realize trucking is terrible right now, but by the time you are able to acquire the right equipment, the rush may be over before you can pay for it all. Just keep that in mind.
One of the best pieces of content I've seen from a TH-camr, at least in the music industry context. Tank, keep them coming because, normal people don't access to these. Some other interesting topics would be, costs of guitar or drum gear per tour, pyro costs, meechandising costs, etc, thanks, cheers!
This breakdown is so interesting, after hearing Justin Hawkins talking recently about this topic it really opened my (uneducated) mind about this topic. To then come across this again broadens my understanding! Excellent video
As someone who regular goes to concerts, this content is soooooo interesting. I honestly like these kind of videos more than the reactions 😅
20$/€ for a shirt would be a dream. Unfortunately, the prices for shirts on tours have gone up significantly, at least in Europe.
yep, here in UK getting a t-shirt (more often than not of a questionable quality) for less than £ 35 is rare on a gig night
I bought a T shirt at the recent Epica show and it was $45US
Another thing I love about bands like Jinjer. Their merch is WAY cheaper that I would expect. T-shirts around $30, Hoodie for around $60 or so, and they have things like stickers for $5 for those who can't spend as much.
@@chadvarnell1889 As a 33 year old who has been mostly purchasing his casual, everyday wardrobe from shows since probably 2001….I’d say 30 for a tshirt and 60 for a hoodie at a show these days is reasonable and the right price. That is what I expect and am always willing to pay without any hesitation. Something that seemed strange to me at a show a couple months ago was that a long sleeved t shirt was 50 dollars. It was like 35, I believe, on their website tho. Ha. If a short sleeve is 30, I can get on board with 35-40 for the long sleeve. 50 seemed a little greedy tho. I will also say that it seems like the quality and fit of band merch has generally gotten better compared to what it was like when I was a teenybopper/teenager coming up. That is something I’m willing to pay a bit more for. It could also just be that things fit me better now as an adult. I went to see Slaughter to Prevail last weekend in NYC and it was awesome. Their merch was very expensive, however. $40 t shirts. They were badass, but that is too much for a shirt. Don’t get me started on Tool’s merch prices. Lol.
@@PittDaddy I too went to Sabaton/Epica a few weeks back. This makes me feel better for spending $45! 😊
One of the cool things about the just-finished US tour by Band-Maid was that the crew, including the bus driver, became minor celebrities themselves amongst the fans.
They really are a very good band aren’t they? Those girls have something quite unique. When they move a bit away from metal and do their more melodic work you hear just how together they are and the lyrics often astonish me in their sophistication, given how young the band members are, although I think they have been a unit for about seven years now?
@@francispower1418It will be their tenth anniversary next year. They aren't that young, they range from 28 - 31, but yeah they are awesome!
Thanks for the video Tank. I love these behind the scenes views.
My brother is a diesel mechanic and he is having trouble getting even simple parts on a reasonable lead time so I wouldn’t be surprised if a bus breaking down wrecked a tour.
I remember in the mid-1980s a typical decent bus cost around $3,000 per week, which was a ridiculous amount back then. Made your old church bus and UHaul box trailer look not so bad after all.
Yep. We converted an old school bus into tour bus. Took out majority of seats and built bunks and a wall to separate gear from bunks and bunks from sitting area. We bolted down two old couches and left a few bus seats in
not an ammount to sneeze at but adjusted for inflation that only 8k today still a lot cheaper then now crazy either way
8 years ago I was paying about 5 grand a week I think,didn’t have all the additional petty charges
@@daveg4236 Is that legal?
@@v4v819 yes. I forgot we had to paint over majority of the yellow
Very informative and solid details! Certainly an often overlooked element by the “why are shows so expensive?” fans. My brother was in a band that toured regularly during his tenure and it was always cool when they got Walter as a bus driver. They did 3 ozzfests together and he really became like family. Keep up the great work and stay well!
I drove Class 8 Tractor Trailers for just over 30 years, last 10 years hauling Production and Lighting. I was never treated with such respect and paid as well as I was on Tour. Because I ran a sleeper truck with a galley and a APU, I usually pocketed the Buy-out. Some Tours were big enough that we had A shows and B shows and leap frogged production which gave us some more travel time. We used loose leaf logbooks for Hours of Service because there was no ELD mandate yet but I was RARELY asked to drive over my hours and if it happened, I was well compensated. Did not matter if I was hauling for a Broadway Show or a Band, it was always top notch. I did a couple of runs behind the wheel of a coach because it was hauling a trailer, but I prefer cargo that doesn't talk and argue because they had a bad day and you know what I mean. Tour managers are bad enough. I have since retired and live on the yard of a Production Company in Texas and occasionally drive a fork to load some gear and act as adult in charge when everybody is out on Tour. It's been great to have all the gear out again instead of it sitting in the yard. Would not trade the experience for anything. And as always......NO pooping on the bus !!
Hey, don't forget these bands that require a bus to tour, are also soaking their opening acts for thousands of dollars. So, cut that final expense total down considerably. As you well know, it's not uncommon for LARGE acts (who make big money) to demand "buy on" monies. Several tours have been offered to my band, if we'd pay for it. As an example... 3 band bill. BIG band headlines... direct support slot for $15,000.00... opening slot for $10,000.00. Also, there's no pay for you after you pay to get on tour. Sometimes you have to match the big band's prices for merch. The opening bands are also paying for gas, and all types of road expenses too. I'm not telling you (Tank) anything you don't already know... I'm just laying out some info for people that may not be privvy to the process.
I dig your channel, man... cheers!
I find this hard to believe... Given how supportive the music culture is in the industry and how much big bands historically has helped out smaller bands coming up- Kiss is a great example who helped bands like Van Halen and even Jon Bon Jovi when they were coming up!!!
Thanks for all the info in this video. I’ve been a truck driver and charter bus driver over the years. I have a 32 year clean record and all endorsements and have interviewed in the past for tour driving but so far the time away from home has kept me out of it.
Loved the video! Great content, I love that you bring realism to an often glamorized trade. Not to say you aren’t glamorous, because you are!
A few video ideas I would love:
A video listing all the different roles/jobs and their responsibilities/duties, I assume it will vary tour to tour and band to band. But a general overview of all the potential jobs. What sort of experience do bands/artists/managers like to see for each job?
A video on what a typical back stage environment is like throughout the day of a show? Are there common areas where people mingle? Do artists/crew mingle with each other? How close to show time do bands usually start to gather side stage before they play? Are bands at the venue all day waiting to play? How would they normally fill their day?
An etiquette video. Is there etiquette to walking around a stage? Walking around back stage? Do’s and don’ts if a fan finds themselves back stage? How best to meet a band? The do’s and don’ts if you find yourself face to face with a band? Bus etiquette? Back/On Stage etiquette?
General questions: difference between a manager and tour manager? Differences between a tour manager/manager and a booking agent? Difference between an Engineer and Producer?
Keep ‘em coming! It’s Satan’s work you’re doing!
OK I am a bus driver and you got me doing some thinking buddy!
great and informative video! it puts into perspective how big and expensive of an ordeal touring is. I'd love if you covered different aspects of being a band and what it actually means and how much some things cost when/if you felt like it. you see a lot of people making comments that clearly show they have no idea (not accusing them, it's not general knowledge) how much goes on behind the scenes, how bands really make money and that touring, releasing an album or even putting out merch isn't as easy (or cheap) as they think.
I've always wondered: do bands lose money when they have to cancel a tour that was already in production and is there's insurance for that?
Great video, love hearing touring logistics stories. The project manager in me loves this stuff
Thanks a ton, man!
That's why tickets aren't $8,50 anymore ! That was back in the 70's pretty much all general addmittion! But those were the days and alot of great groups tourd constantly! Great video! Very in depth!
Saw the Doobies in the 70's for a $7.50 ticket
Just FYI 8.50 is roughly $60 today, but I get your point.
@@raybassman7536 Bullshit!!!!! Show the stub!!!!!
@@cambienvenu That's still too low... Even in those days i'm sure of this... How would they pay everyone?
Also you can’t just get a van because now you’ve got hotel costs.
Thanks for this. It's a thing that people often don't think about when going to shows. Makes it extra special that a band like Machine Head are doing a tour around the US playing small venues, some limited to only 250 people. Shows that they really care about bringing the music to the fans even if they may not make a profit on it.
Thanks for the transparency! This is why most new artists i discover aren’t bands. It’s so expensive to tour and perform. Some bands just opt to do local shows and twitch concerts too. I had no idea it could cost like 69k/month for a tour bus. That’s an insane amount of money. But at least it includes all labor and stuff. I know many bands who post about looking for drivers to drive on tour. These numbers seem like pro drivers not just your buddy who wants to drive with you, which is good that they are provided!
When i went on tour with a band as a sound engineer it was an awful experience because it was an RV with awful “mattresses” and i just couldn’t sleep (plus no real showers). If we were put up in hotels or had a more comfortable tour bus I’m sure it would be easier, but still super brutal. I give mad props to any artist who does regular touring or is part of the crew. I see more and more bands just doing festival circuits too.
Great video, Tank. Very informative.
And it made me realise, that I'm going to be a bus driver in my next ilfe 😅
thank you for this. it was really informative for someone like me who's just a casual fan/concertgoer. i knew expenses added up, but didn't realize they could be that high for something as vital as transportation.
i like these and your interviews just as much as your reactions, because they're more than just fun and interesting info. you're really helping to spread the word about being a supportive listener. after watching your adam de micco video, i went straight to their site and bought a hoodie (even though i have a ton of them) specifically to try and do my bit to help them out. and then i ordered their album 😊
After show settlement breakdown vid would be rad. Great content here . 👌
yes this !
23 minute video and the man answered the question in the first 15 seconds. Love it, watched the whole video as a matter of point.
Good video! As someone who approves invoicing for contractor hourly rates I think it’s important to understand the driver probably isn’t taking home 15-20k. Presumably they have benefits etc and the 15-20k is the cost for what the company needs to charge to cover the drivers time and benefits, workers comp costs, liability insurance costs etc and make sure the company will get their profit margin as well. The hourly rates I see when I’m invoiced are definitely not what their actual hourly pay rates are. And yes, you can generally count on estimates coming in low.
@@programalateshow1750 why shouldn't we ? they could go drive a big rig and make that much. supply and demand. that' s not really that much money.
Drivers are on a 1099,your a contractor,not an employee also no benifits the Band pays the driver throw someone out of the bunk,start looking for your own way home,your Gone
@@keiththomas6690 no all of us are employees now at the big companies. it reduces the liabilities.
Could you tell me which companies, just curious,Celebrity,Night Train,Pioneer??
@@keiththomas6690 you've nailed it pretty much, Nitetrain, Hemphill, Diamond, Celebrity, All Access, Pioneer, RN Entertainment, On The Road Coach, Coach Quarters
Nicely done, bro. So true how the cost of a tour has skyrocketed. Especially for a shed or arena tour with larger crews and multiple trucks of production. Concertgoers don't really realize the logistics and the expense. My Mom passed earlier this year, and while grieving and handling everything afterward, I missed the boat it seems. By the time I started looking for a gig in late July, all the TM/PMs I know were crewed, and Bobnet only seems to have ads for "Young Guns" paying $250 a day. I'm an old-timer I reckon (can't believe I'm saying that! lol!) and while I'm not a white glover, my days of humping gear, climbing truss/ladders, and pushing cases up ramps are over. I'm an LD/Master Electrician, so, I'm not going back to 1980s pay. Hopefully, I'll finally get back to work! Looks like I'll have to wait till next year when the dust settles, as the back-to-school season is over.
Love the channel, man. Great insight for folks on both sides of the velvet rope!
I love hearing about the business end of the music industry, the nuts and bolts of things, how it all really works. Moral of the story is if you enter into the life of a musician, do it because it’s your passion, don’t do it for the money because only a very small few make a fortune, many just barely eek out a modest living. It’s an investment with very low chance of any type of returns.
Amazing video! I'm absolutely amazed to see what all of this actually cost! Thank you for the information
Seeing the quick walk through of Band-Maid's tour bus for their US tour, I don't know what I expected the cost to be but holy hell it looked expensive
Spotting and posting photos of the Band-Maid bus was kind of a thing, on this recent U.S. tour. I was standing right next to it, while waiting for doors to open in Seattle, and it was sweet! I caught a couple of glimpses inside, as support staff disembarked, but I didn't see any of the maids. No idea what it cost them, but it couldn't have been cheap.
My suspicion is that their label sees overseas touring as more of a promotional expense than an actual profit-making endeavor. If they can cover their costs and sell out venues, that's valuable in and of itself so they can go on Japanese radio programs and variety shows to talk about their sold-out American tour.
It's likely the bus for Band Maid was provided by Live Nation. Band Maid is contracted to Live Nation for the US.
Already knew it wasn't cheap' The breakdown was cool to see why it is costly' Great Vid!!!
I have an uncle that is a country artist. They've lived in Nashville since the 80s and he's had a great career but he's also a very skilled carpenter. When he's not playing or touring, he does custom tour bus builds. I'm not going to start name dropping but think of the biggest stars of the last 15 years and he probably built their busses.
bus companies have conversion shops that build them, sounds like he didn't make it as a artist, so now he's a conversion builder
Great look behind the scenes, thanks for giving us a peek.
That was really interesting, thank you tank. I never thought about this but you are right. Touring is an expensive thing, and getting a little inside helps to understand. I had tickets for the Majestica Christmas tour in December and was very disappointed when they cancelled. Now I do understand better what happened. Still hope that they di their tour some time later. Thank you Tank for this input
Yet another random TH-cam that educated me about something I would never think about. Thumbs up
This was really interesting to watch 👍 I'd love to see more breakdowns like this to understand why things happen the way they do 🙂
This is honestly eye opening thankyou tank for the behind the scenes info
Very interesting, Tank. I never realized how much goes into getting a band from one show to the next.
It would be interesting to hear about the other expenses related to touring. For example, how are the venues paid for?
I'm an old ex Memphis Hair band Frontman from the 80"s and 90's who like most of my buddies, never got a deal, never made a penny, and eventually had to return to the real world. Had 3 tunes on the radio in 1990 but couldn't get them pushed nationally due to not being signed by a big label. Some of my buddies made moderate money after signing but that was the best case scenario. I still have friends who are hired guns for big acts and one in particular has spent 23 years and counting with a late 70's and 80's Mega band who tours almost continually. He said the tv screen in the motor coach's gets awful small when your sharing it with 10 other guys. Another great topic sir! Thank you for all you do!
These videos are awesome, thank you for the insight. Many people in the comments already wish for new videos on touring costs, and I'd like to add the (possible) role of a label in all of this. Like, if they see their band as a long-term investment (especially if it's already a somewhat bigger band like Electric Callboy) and cover these costs no matter what, or if the band can end up with massive debt due to risky label deals. You have already talked about that briefly for tour-buyons some time ago and I think that it would be interesting to dive a little deeper into that subject.
Great video Tank this was amazing info ! What A cost burden, now I know why some bands up and coming, travel on converted cargo vans !!
I always heard that band don't go on tour to make money and i can understand it alot more with this information. I know touring cost alot but not this much for only one part of touring. Would be fun if you made other video's on other parts of costs with touring
I could swear that back in the day, the wisdom is that touring and merch sales is where bands made their money because album sales was rarely a significant source of income.
Touring is how they make their money as you don't make money from album sales any more
@@witeshade so actual back in the day, bands toured to promote album sales which is where the bulk of money came from.
Now, (well pre covid as I haven't been on the road since before the shutdown) bands made their money on touring and merch sales. That's why merch prices have gotten so high is because bands don't make money off their music (there's always exceptions).
@@JustJoshLTRB Yup and back in the early 2000s, you could get tour support money from the record label which covered all the agreed tour costs - crew, buses, flights, hotels, per diems, etc - which used to take a bit of haggling. When I was prepping budgets you included everything including consumables such as strings, sticks, drumskins, you name it. Then as we moved into the 2010s and album sales made much less for labels (never made anything for the bands except for publishing income anyway in general), then the tour support money disappeared and you suddenly had to cut the crew a bit, increase the guarantees from promoters (which started pushing up ticket prices) and employ professionals to handle merch and/or do a deal with a merch company to handle touring and online merch sales. Then for a while, touring was the way bands made their money (which, of course, the labels now instead of giving money to support the tours, they expected a hefty cut of profits which came out before the band got their split).
Now? With so much supply over demand for live music, as every band tries to tour all year long to survive, and venues are struggling as well (or closing down completely) again, musicians are back in the meat grinder with nowhere to go to make a living. Unless you've got a massive hit record or dedicated following, I really have no idea how bands can make any kind of living from their music and performance these days.
And Josh, you're 100% right - without selling merch at gigs (for which some venues charge a ridiculous percentage fee of up to 30%!!!) then it really is a shitshow. But the ticket prices keep going up, the music industry still makes $billions each year but the creators get less and less each year. I have no solution to offer as the megacorps are not going to suddenly start offering better deals to musicians while the money keeps pouring in for them and their shareholders.
Depends on the size of the band... Small local acts don't tour to make money. National acts make the majority of their money touring.
Let the megacorps keep their legacy acts and megastars... Everyone else will end up at small niche labels. 40 years later those small companies will be merged inyo megacorps.
Thanx for those insights. Without you, most people would never know, what's actually behind the scenes at all.
I was bummed when an Icelandic band cancelled their EU tour due to 'post covid logistics' but now I understand why (not even including the risk of someone getting sick or possibly shows cancelled due to local lockdowns)
Same with Anthrax, Static-X, Fear Factory, list goes on - EU tours got cancelled just as much as Tank says about US tours.
Did a 5 week UK/EU tour recently (4 months ago) mid 2022 had to call in the only tour bus and trailer available from Germany due to no availability at our usual bus hire company in London to collect our tour group of 10, double level,16 bunk (including driver's bunk), full kitchen, upper and lower lounge areas, Netflix, wifi, fully stocked fridge (sodas, water, milk etc) cost 60k for the whole tour.
2 weeks after that tour we hit the USA for 5 weeks, not a single bus available due to all being hired out for the Burning Man festival and we tried 4 months prior.
Ended having to hire a 9 bunk band wagon plus trailer, our merch guy and tour manager shared the driving, the shower room at a hotel was the 10th and 11th bunk for whoever wanted a break from the wagon. Half the size of a tour bus, not stocked but 3x cheaper. Better suited for small sized bands and not a 10 body tour group as there's NO space if you travel with your usual tour setup (luggage, carry-on, extra stuff) you pretty much have to downsize to accommodate for the smaller space.
On a 5 week tour in Australia at the moment,. No tour bus available so it's 2x 8 seater vehicles (driving duties shared) 4 passengers per vehicle, 1 super transport van for backline driving shared between sound guy and tour manager. 2 bedroom 4 bed hotel apartments with laundry and kitchen facilities or basic 2 bed hotel rooms. Still cheaper than hiring a tour bus just more annoying checking in to accom.
2022 is a crazy time to tour.
This was great, Tank! Thank you!
Great video. People often bemoan the cost of ticket prices for big acts. But when you look at the sheer cost of the logistics involved its hard to argue against it. Cost of the bus alone demonstrates this well. Logistics in general is a huge headache.
I thought my merch money went for food, gas, etc.; but for the life of me I never considered bus & trailer rental and all the other stuff you mentioned. Now I guess I won’t complain about a $45-50 tour shirt or $100 hoodie as often. Plus I heard that every time a band carried merch across the Canadian border - both ways - they had to pay certain fees for that too.
Thank you so much. I stumbled across this video and i think this may be the reason why a couple of the bands i wanted to see this year canceled last minute. Specifically one band said they could not get the logistics solved with the other supporting band. If it is the case that if both bands even shared the same bus. i would not be surprised they could not afford those prices.
Duuude, this info and content is AWESOME! Really breaks it down for everyone. I've done some touring and NOTHIN like this. More that "5 dudes in a car, guitars, and using another bands backline" kinda shit...alwayz my dream to see the States thru a bus window, not there yet. Great episode. I did an episode recently on European metal tours being canceled for this very reason. Sad!!...Stay rad Tank!! 🦇🕷🤘 -J.s.
Watching this video made me go back and look up old invoices.
Found one from 2016, 52 days not counting fuel, 58k.
Notable differences:
$250/day for driver
$50/day for trailer
$10/day ifta
No internet , Verizon gave me a Hotspot with my plan at the time and seeing as band paid my phone bill we used that.
No satellite cost as I had them throw that in after the bus we put a deposit on was given to someone else.
It's crazy to see basically getting half of what we used to for same price.
Great video man!
I guess when you're looking at your budget, you can either afford to tour, or you can't. There's no getting around the bottom line. That's why it's at the bottom. Lol! I can imagine doing a tour and winding up in debt. In fact, I can imagine that happens frequently. Maybe?
When you discuss the financial side of this business, it's extremely interesting and often surprising. Tell us more!
Peace brother.
That was an excellent breakdown . I have been involved with the financial side of a band for the past 18 years and hiring a Bus has sometimes been difficult especially 2022 -fun - and some times chaotic.
If your a nine months of the year touring band there are distinct advantages to maybe ownership of a Trailer even eventually a bus but touring for 3-4 months then go straight to the Hiring mode and be happy with a fairly safe fixed overhead . If you own your own trailer remember any problems on the road are the TM’s problem to solve not the Bus company . I am never quite sure that the Payroll administration fee makes a lot of sense as I have always wondered why the Bus company does not build it into the daily rate ?
If you find a good Bus company then stick with them as that can become a strong relationship and remember when your all on the bus and rolling the most important person will be the driver so respect and understanding from crew and band members is very important and yes there will maybe be a need to tell people to tidy up and occasionally shut up .
Just as an aside many European buses to me are so much better as they are bigger [ double decked ] have the wash room on a separate floor from the bunks , have articulated rear wheels and just give a roomier feel .
Last but not least and to repeat if in fact your keen to become an owner operator that is entirely another business and consequently another set of rules and administration which might take away from your primary objective to be a band on tour .
The "roadie" content is so much better than the reaction content. Ty for the insights you give us with this little "series" about how things work on tour and behind the scenes!
I enjoy them both a lot.
Excellent information. It was very fun to watch.
I used to work for a major metal act on tour (won’t mention the name) in the early 90s. This is old news. Drugs won’t get you broke ( you couldn’t do that much and survive). However, Fueling semis, tour buses, paying hotels and union penalties will. Remember MC Hammer? We stayed at the same hotel as him one night. That man, God bless him had 10 tour buses and a 100 plus crew. Hmm, wonder why he’s broke now. The dude, had 20 to 30 stage dancers alone..
In 2013 or 14, I was working for a classic rock artist that was doing a radio show that MC Hammer was on... Dude STILL had 20 backup dancers, and we were all wondering how he was able to pay anyone.
@@TankTheTech Unfortunately, Hammer fell into that "trap" of trying to bring everybody along or "save everybody" if you will. Giving people jobs "DANCERS" and other "Hanger on's" from his past. Putting people on payroll just because. Nice gesture but you just can't do it. He's good people though. However, he was the poster child in the buisness of "WHAT NOT TO DO" back then.
As a tour bus driver myself, I thought this video is pretty spot on!!! Next time a tour manger asks me about pricing I will show them this video!!! Safe travels and rock on!!!
remember youre just a driver...why would a TM ask you about pricing when they might have seen this way before you were ever told you would be driving
The other thing you didn’t mention is scheduling- a lot of tours are booked so you HAVE to drive overnight between shows, which is impossible on a van tour.
Yep. If you have a show in Cleveland and then a show in Kansas City the next, you can’t Van it. You need to have a bus and a driver to drive immediately after the show so they can get there in time and camp can sleep.
Talk about an eye opener. Soooooo many people complain about ticket prices and merch prices. THIS PERFECTLY EXPLAINS why!
Then again they would complain still no matter what.
Had to show this video to a few coworkers. Shania Twain is coming to my town (East coast Canada) and people have not stopped complaining about the minimum ticket price.
Super informative! 👌
Yowza! That was eye-opening. I've always wondered what bus rentals were. As I recall, back in the 70's, when KISS had a huge tour, they bought (or started) a trucking company so that some of those huge costs would end up back in their own pockets.
not back in , it never left.
Great Video very informative break down of costs.
I went to see L7 this past October. With all the bands that were on tour, they had to fly in to Nashville from LA just to get a bus. That meant their equipment had to be delivered separately, which wasn’t cheap. They had Covid protocols the whole tour so if one got sick, they were screwed. Thankfully it was a very profitable tour and no one got sick.
Dying to catch L7 reunited! Can’t wait for Punk Rock Bowling!
Glad to see this! I’ve been wondering why tickets are getting so expensive!! And this makes me feel better and glad to get merch!!
I was so excited to finally see Howard Jones (Light The Torch) for the first time, and then they announced that because of a tour bus difficulty, they had to cancel their tour with GWAR. I was really sad, but hopefully, I can see them someday... but at least I still got to see GWAR.♥️
Howard Jones and Men Without Hats in Jim Thorpe was a great show!!
Really cool insight into a side most never consider!! Thanks for doing this video.
YAARRRGGGG!!!!!!!
"It's crazy that I couldn't rent a bus, from a company that tends to rent out multiple rigs, for a band that basically nobody has ever heard of." Rough. That's just rough. 🤣
Great info!
It must be extremely difficult for regional bands or smaller acts to even go on the road for just a couple of days. That's why I'm a firm believer of supporting that act or acts because it's extremely difficult to make a living.
DANKE so very much for giving us this super interesting insight!
Gern geschehen!
I drove tour buses for over 20 years. I started out as tour manager but when I saw what drivers were making I made the transition. Also just so you know we never liked to be called "bus" drivers. We preferred coach drivers but maybe that's changed since my last tour in 2001. My overdrives were set at 450 miles and I made a LOT of money on overdrives. I also got per diem every day. On the major tours that was sometimes as much as $50 a day.
Per diem is gone...trump literally took that. It's now a much larger standard deduction for everyone.
@@adamfrbs9259 😂😂😂😂
@@The_Sound_Doctor1957 you realize this is actual information that's true right? I'm guessing no, the per diem...which means per day, refers to the per day standard tax deduction when not itemizing traveling expense for a job that requires you to be away from home. Such as meals, laundry at a laundromat on the road ect ect. The government used to make a standard daily deduction of 80% of about $55.00 dollars a day. That was a massive deduction for those that worked on the road. Now essentially everyone gets the same deduction. Look it up. Now I'll laugh...at you..for being ignorant. 😀 😃 🙂
@@adamfrbs9259 Trump is a lying, adulterous, stealing, bigoted, racist, moron. How many tours have you been on? You have no idea about the reality but just like Trump you run your mouth like you do.
Best 23 mins i have ever invested on TH-cam haha. Great breakdown!
I wonder what BAND-MAID paid for their tour bus? It looked pretty fancy.
You have a cool channel. Keep up the great content 🤘
Back in the 80's I worked on a national tour for a season. My partner, John Killer, spent time learning to drive a bus. He was a rock solid driver and saw the perks a driver received like a single room. Also the pay did not hurt. Next season with a freshly minted bus driver's license he became a tour bus driver.
Super interesting info man, thanks for sharing!
Bus drivers need hazard pay for touching some of those bed sheets.
😂😂😂
Clear your bunk or they sheets don't get changed
Always an absolute pleasure listening to what you have to say, man. Cheers.
Very interesting. Do you also have an overwiev, of how much a band has to pay in advance, for recording a new album? >"pre orders helps a ton!"
As a retired musician, this was very interesting to learn about this. I never learned about bus rentals or knowing much info on it. Thanks!
Makes me curious as to why bands just don't outright buy the bus.
They might still have to pay for the driver(s), but one would think by time they get onto say a 3rd tour, they would be better off. Specially when some tours in North America can go 7-9 months of the year.
some bands do
buses are big investments, maintaining them, fuel tax, repairs, all the systems, plumbing, electrical, fuel, drivers, payroll, down to things like cleanings supplies and 12 sheets pillow cases and comforters, it just doesn't make financial sense if you only tour 60-80 days a year
@@mr.jimbusiness6326 GREAT POINTS
Think about it a bit more
1 check out the prices of tour buses new and used and you might be surprised in the wrong way .
2. You have to include a driver who is always available for you which might make them a permanent salaried employee.
3. Mechanical problems on the road might require a replacement BUS and that is easier if your hiring from a solid company and pretty much impossible for your one bus operation . Our bands first NA tour back in 2002 required a rebuilt engine for the 8 seater van not an easy experience but part of the History .
Take the stress out of the stressful business of touring hiring us not a crime .
Very educational. Thanks, Now I want to support bands even more. I'll buy their merch next time.
They could save a lot of money if they can find an EV tour bus.
Maybe not. Range might be a problem. They’d probably spend more time charging the damn thing than on the road. Plus, an EV tour bus likely an expensive proposition to rent.
This info is great. Can you do a ESTIMATE of income for different level bands (like 1000 seats per city ) how do they get paid ? Is it ticket sales only ,100%? Do booking agents /companies have guarantees or flat rates ? Pros and cons of booking national chains (HOB) or local owned venues ?