Cartridge Comparison - Audio Technica PTG33II - Ortofon 2M Black - Shure M97xVL - Fake Plastic Trees

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 พ.ย. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 90

  • @leecakin
    @leecakin 3 ปีที่แล้ว +14

    AT33PTG ii is my preference

  • @davids.816
    @davids.816 3 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Absolutely love this vid. The AT completely steals the show in my opinion. Thanks for this!

  • @felixfranzen7578
    @felixfranzen7578 2 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    The 2M seems to pickup more surface noise and static compared to the 33PTG. Did you experience this as well? I've read that MC carts are supposed to have less surface noise and be better overall for eliminating pops and clicks and so on. But I have heard time wrapping my head around that concept. A MC cartidge needs a lot more amp juice compared to an MM, at least 20dB more, right? Well, with most modern phono pre-amp that doesn't leave a whole of headroom. Since you generally have less headroom with a MC pops and clicks should be worse and a scratches and dust on the record might resulting in clipping. But most people claim MCs are quiter.

  • @trexabyte9943
    @trexabyte9943 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    ortofon 2m black is amazing! a MM Cartridge, which can compete with the MC Cartridges!

    • @BensAudioCave
      @BensAudioCave  ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Thanks for watching. Do keep in mind the black retails for over &200 MORE than this MC

    • @trexabyte9943
      @trexabyte9943 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@BensAudioCave Hey, oh I live in Germany. At33ptg2 is about 599€ and the Ortofon 2m Black is about 590€. But I guess you can get both a little cheaper. Btw. what would you prefer? Also in terms of longevity? Thank you for your Videos! Very interesting content!

  • @jowblow2171
    @jowblow2171 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    I like the AT but all three are very good. Great tunes also. Thanks!

  • @johnmazzone
    @johnmazzone 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    the audio tech was the best but the 2m black is so close. thank you

    • @BensAudioCave
      @BensAudioCave  2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      It is on here… but in person I will say the margin increases

  • @ghankstef
    @ghankstef 3 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Very subtle differences coming over youtube to my system. I suspect the recording doesn't have the best dynamics. But I think I hear more bass in the 2M Black but its a bit muddier and not as good of imaging or separation. The PTGIII seemed to have the nicest imaging and separation. The M97xVL maybe in between but if I was there in person I might have a different take.

    • @BensAudioCave
      @BensAudioCave  3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      When I feed my computer into the DAC of the system that was used I can hear the differences blindly… not quite as well as the original recording (24/96 FLAC) but still there by and large… I always test it this way to make sure it translates after it got to TH-cam… I try NOT to redline the levels and to use every trick possible to get the TH-cam copy to sound its best but they do what they do 😃

  • @homerjones3291
    @homerjones3291 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    This is right down my alley because I have a mkii heavily modded with KAB upgrades and see conflicting information about what cartridges work well with it. I’ve tried the Shure Type V-MR with a Jico SAS stylus (one of my favorites), Denon Dl-103 and DL301 II, and The Hana SL and ML (my best so far). Have yet to try an Ortofon or Soundsmith - was told by SS that either the Carmen or the Zephyr MK III would be good matches in the under $1500 range.

    • @BensAudioCave
      @BensAudioCave  2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      I have tried all those... The soundsmith are nice but pricey... I have a DL-103R and Dynavector 10x5 with a ruby retip... They were good but just not quite my cup of tea... The AT33PTG2 has really been my favorite so far! Recently discovered it sounds even better loaded a bit lower... If I had $1000 to spend it would be that cart and a Parasound zPhono XRM

  • @mariocassar3117
    @mariocassar3117 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Ben, please continue the good work.

  • @ssmith954
    @ssmith954 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Interesting comparison, and the differences can be nicely heard. The AT is clearly ahead (for me), followed by the Ortofon, folllowed by the Shure (which I did not like at all). I think there's a lot more that can be extracted by the AT, with a better phono pre and especially with an MC step up transformer.

    • @BensAudioCave
      @BensAudioCave  2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      There is a better pre now and you’re right… but for this comparison it was cheaper level playing field… I don’t like step up transformers

    • @niravp426
      @niravp426 ปีที่แล้ว

      ​@@BensAudioCave Hi Ben great video... What is the reason why you don't like step up transformers? Im between deciding whether I need one.

    • @BensAudioCave
      @BensAudioCave  ปีที่แล้ว

      @@niravp426 not enough flexibility

  • @705johnnyboy
    @705johnnyboy 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    the atpt33 is juiciest following a close 2nd shure then ortofon ,all not disappointing ,i have a oc9mk2 from new its just started to do its magic and i had an eye on this ptg 33 ,youve convinced me to get one lol,

    • @BensAudioCave
      @BensAudioCave  3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      PTG33II had less than 20 hours on it

  • @donk1822
    @donk1822 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I was swayed to the 2M black when it came to a cartridge for my rebuilt Transcriptor Hydraulic Reference, SME3009s2 combo.
    There was no way I was fitting anything square on the end of that arm, on that turntable :).

  • @CatoHennie
    @CatoHennie 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I was going to buy the 2m Black, but now I’m thinking maybe I should go for the AT33PTG/II😊

  • @Drivehead103
    @Drivehead103 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Keep up the good work, I love these audio comparisons. I thought equipment burn in was a myth and I watched a video that you could easily hear the sound difference. I currently use Audio-Technica 440 MLB, ortofon 2m black and ortofon om 40 with Fritz Geiger 70 stylus. They all sound great but the Audio Technica is sibilance and tracking King. Audio-Technica survived all of the ortofon test tracks and did it tracking at 1.4 G. I am very impressed with Audio-Technica products. A simple EP 311 P Mount cartridge for my 30-year-old Technics rack system turntable is what started me down the rabbit hole. And if that's all I could have afforded I would have been happy with that $40 cartridge on a thirty-year-old rack system turntable. You do not have to spend thousands to enjoy vinyl. But if you decide to spend more on quality products, the reward reward can be very satisfying.

  • @m.moreira3969
    @m.moreira3969 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Your videos made me order the AT33PTG! 🙈

    • @BensAudioCave
      @BensAudioCave  2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      You are about to be happy!

    • @m.moreira3969
      @m.moreira3969 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@BensAudioCave Got it and I’m really enjoying if! Just like you said , Ben: it delivers detail with class, refinement , without ever sounding shouty. It does lean a bit on the warm side on my already warm sounding Linton Heritage speakers, but not muffled! Thank you very much!

  • @TheNorliss
    @TheNorliss 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Good vid, Ben. I think the AT33PTG/ii sounded the best of these three. It's a very good cart and lives with carts of much higher price.

  • @williammiebach1798
    @williammiebach1798 ปีที่แล้ว

    Another great comparison, Ben. I'm surprized that the M97 with the line contact may be more to my liking on this record than the Black. It gets most of the details. The Ortofon lifts more from the record, with more air, but is a trace bitey sounding. The GTP33 sings. I think it has openess, definition and most of the silkiness of more costly carts. A handful might be a touch richer and dig deeper, but that's also a matter of taste and system matching, I think. Nice psych-out at the beginning too.

    • @BensAudioCave
      @BensAudioCave  ปีที่แล้ว

      You’re not wrong… I will say loading the AT33 a bit lower at 76 ohms has made a world of difference

  • @scottmcclements7566
    @scottmcclements7566 2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I think you can find even longer cartridge screws for that Shure. They are not quite long enough.

    • @BensAudioCave
      @BensAudioCave  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Funny… they are what I had on hand…

    • @scottmcclements7566
      @scottmcclements7566 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@BensAudioCave I'd like to hear a JiCO SAS/B on the Shure. I've considered that. Also, can you tell me when you bought your AT33? I see yours has a glossy finish. I'm trying to find one right now (usa), and I might have to order one from a seller in Japan. Trying to figure out if the finish and lettering changed and when. In other words I am trying to avoid buying one that has been sitting around for 4 years. At least in the pictures the one shown on the AT site the body is flat black.

    • @BensAudioCave
      @BensAudioCave  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@scottmcclements7566 well I ordered it off Amazon here: amzn.to/3Gk1fSJ
      now as far as the SAS is concerned I had one before the vivid line… here were my conclusions and my audiogon review of it:
      forum.audiogon.com/discussions/lp-gear-n97xvl-vivid-line-contact-stylus-for-shure-m97xe-also-compared

    • @scottmcclements7566
      @scottmcclements7566 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@BensAudioCave Strange that it had inner groove distortion. Isn't the SAS profile basically a Microlinear? I would have expected none. Which alignment geometry do you use? Perhaps the suspension was always compromised and the SRA was never right.

    • @BensAudioCave
      @BensAudioCave  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@scottmcclements7566 well it’s not out of the realm… it is a line contact but it is BONDED… so I dances but that sometimes hurts… I used the Technics version of the Stevenson

  • @markbryant4641
    @markbryant4641 ปีที่แล้ว

    VERY interesting.
    Thanks!

  • @TheAgeOfAnalog
    @TheAgeOfAnalog ปีที่แล้ว +1

    AT for the win. I have an opportunity to purchase one at cost and might just do it.

    • @BensAudioCave
      @BensAudioCave  ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Do it and you won’t be disappointed!!!

  • @NickP333
    @NickP333 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Cool shootout. Did you clean the record beforehand? The AT cart seemed to do the job a bit better in most ways, especially with the vocals. They have clarity and definition when using the AT, but seem a bit muffled with the other 2. It also sounds like the most balanced of the 3 carts. I could go on, but I’ll spare you. lol Thanks for the vid! 👍🎶🙂🔊✨

    • @BensAudioCave
      @BensAudioCave  3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Record was cleaned but this was a circa 2010 issue and it is a bit noisy

    • @NickP333
      @NickP333 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@BensAudioCave Thanks for the reply. Yeah, I figured you would’ve cleaned it beforehand. I really enjoyed your recordings of the cartridges. The difference in sound quality in each cart could be heard pretty clearly even through the TH-cam filter. I really dig what you’re doing with your channel. Great stuff! Looking forward to more. Thanks again! 👍🎶🙂🔊✨

  • @tornadoduran165
    @tornadoduran165 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I could be wrong but my impression is you need a SUT and/or a better dedicated phono preamp to extract the real juice of the great moving coil AT33 (maybe also of the Ortofon). Differences should be more evident between carts that what I'm hearing here... maybe you do experience them better with your home speakers

    • @BensAudioCave
      @BensAudioCave  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      I do and TH-cam kills a lot but this is level playing field of an Emotiva pt-100

  • @paulwheatley141
    @paulwheatley141 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    At33ptg/ii sounds the most detailed to me.
    The 2M Black suffers its usual fussiness on crackles and ticks
    The Shure isn't quite in the same league as the other two and is a bit soft and muddy in comparison

  • @mattmoshercom
    @mattmoshercom 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Unfortunately YT re-compresses all uploads to a 128k bit rate which makes it impossible to actually hear what your hearing at home. You can still tell minute differences but I wish we could download your sound test off of your editing system/sound station would be ideal.

    • @BensAudioCave
      @BensAudioCave  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      It’s 192 at HD and I have the untouched files but that’s copyright infringement 😞

    • @mattmoshercom
      @mattmoshercom 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@BensAudioCave Sorry but let me correct that misnomer. Having files of what you personally recorded and given out for demo purposes is not copyright infringement. I am in the film/tv/music industry for over 25 years and if it were true 1000's of people would be breaking the law by handing out there demo reels but in fact we are not breaking the law since it is for demo purposes only. If you sold these commercially then that a different story.

    • @BensAudioCave
      @BensAudioCave  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@mattmoshercom distributing them online though kind of crosses that line, though… the artists here get the money from any ads… but yeah wish there was a higher res platform

    • @mattmoshercom
      @mattmoshercom 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@BensAudioCave Yup I totally forgot about the monetization. But, I want to thank you for making your videos and covering topics that are interesting and done really well.

    • @BensAudioCave
      @BensAudioCave  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@mattmoshercom thank you! That rally does mean a lot!

  • @epg2501
    @epg2501 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    This is great! To me, the PTG33II sounded the best, followed by the Ortofon, followed by the Shure (didn't like it). However the tone was a little scooped on the PTG33II. I originally wanted to buy the PTG33II but went with the 740ML instead since I didn't have to buy a whole cartridge again to replace it. However, I still might pick one up. I use a Schiit Mani and hopefully that is ok to work with the MC's like PTG33II. Also, never tried Hana's either. Last thing....how the hell do you get a tool to loosen those two screws at the end of the tonearm that lock down the twisting of the headshell? My 1210 I just bought had the headshell not level so I just "strong armed it" by twisting it level, which is something I didn't really want to do. I've seen people doing it by taking the whole arm off and apart but forget that. Lastly, have you compared the Funk Achromat to the Hudson Acrylic? (I use one of those now). Thanks so much for all your vids!

    • @BensAudioCave
      @BensAudioCave  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      I actually like the PTG better with the mani than this one…

  • @ebvs5ou
    @ebvs5ou 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Interesting would be a comparison AT-33PTG vs Ortofon Quintet Bronze - both have a ML Stylus. And both are MC. Comparing MC vs MM is not such a good idea

    • @BensAudioCave
      @BensAudioCave  11 หลายเดือนก่อน

      The quintet is actually a line contact not a microline… I was comparing price point really… and honestly the shibata of the Ortofon I have figured out isn’t my cup of tea… tried the quintet black… the ML, boron, and compliance profile of the AT33 is just other worldly at the price point… currently mounted on an AT LP-7 turntable

  • @JoeOrber
    @JoeOrber 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I prefer the audio technica cartridge, it has a warmth and quality that the other two don't have. Having said that, unless you have super high-end speakers, you may not notice the difference because these 3 are really good cartridges. I'd still go with the audio technica lol

  • @JamesBond-gg4wg
    @JamesBond-gg4wg 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I had the shelter 7000 until it broke down (distorted sound, tracking issues, probably stylus issues), since the manufacturer doesn’t want to repair it and the replacement offer is too expensive Iam considering the AT as an alternative, I have as an alternative the 103 which is bargain when it comes to value for money but I miss the detailed spacious sound, do you think that the AT sounds better and will be more satisfying then the Denon 103? I own the acoustic solid round wood turntable and I would appreciate you expert advice about the AT or any other options which will offer the same audio phile sound quality without spending more money (less then a 1000$, repairs or replacement plans should be available at a a decent price).

    • @BensAudioCave
      @BensAudioCave  11 หลายเดือนก่อน

      The 103 is a super low compliance cart and needs plenty of mass… I think the AT33 would be a good fit either this PTG/2 or even the AT33EV if elliptical is your thing…

    • @JamesBond-gg4wg
      @JamesBond-gg4wg 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

      My Acoustic solid record player came with a free Denon 103 cartridge, it works fine, even more then fine, just missing the dynamics and detail of the Shelter, the funny part is that the Denon does have advantages that many more expensive cartridges don’t have and that what made it popular (relaxing sound, very authentic instrument sound).
      Ps, In order to get the best of the 2 worlds I ordered from EBay the Hana MH, hopefully there won’t be any issues with the order.

  • @gertjanvanderkooij9242
    @gertjanvanderkooij9242 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    at33 wins,awesome cartridge

  • @matthewtaylor7355
    @matthewtaylor7355 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Is that u singing Ben on the lp??

  • @Geoff0711
    @Geoff0711 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    well for me the AT blows the other two away! All three are good but by comparison the 2M Black sounds a bit fuzzy compared to the AT

    • @BensAudioCave
      @BensAudioCave  ปีที่แล้ว

      Isn’t it funny how the AT retails for like $100 more than the AT? And for those who say you need an expensive phono preamp… this video was with the internal MC and MM preamp on the Emotiva PT-100!

    • @Geoff0711
      @Geoff0711 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@BensAudioCave I have an AT 33EV and was interested to hear the 33PTG/iii I have heard a 2M Black and also preferred the Nagaoka MP300 I do also have an MP200 so its between the PTG/iii and the MP300 for me right now. (For MC I have an AT630 xformer)

    • @BensAudioCave
      @BensAudioCave  ปีที่แล้ว

      @@Geoff0711 I’ve had several Nag’s and the only one that I found truly great was the MP500… even then the AT blows it AWAY! Now that said; there is probably more sound in the tank than that SUT is affording you… Loading on the MC’s helps shape the sound… almost like an EQ… you can alter the voicing of the cart somewhat… a little higher for more brilliance; a little lower for neutral and a little lower even more for a more bass heavy sound… the AT33’s like loading between 50 and 150 I find depending on what’s connected downstream… in the video mine is loaded at 100 ohms… in my daily listening I have it loaded at 72 ohms… one thing to consider is a better preamp and the best thing I’ve found under $1000 is the Parasound x zPhono XRM that gives you infinitely variable loading from 50-1200 ohms and an XLR output you can use adapters with to achieve up to 66db of gain… at $500 I’d probably buy it before another cart… Also you can have two turntables attached (one moving magnet and one moving coil). Here is the link to that piece of equipment:
      amzn.to/3ZJEe5m

    • @Geoff0711
      @Geoff0711 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@BensAudioCave Thanks that's really helpful and interesting, definitely food for thought. A lot of considerations here for me. Currently using the AT33EV /SL1200G Jelko HS 25 Mg headshell and Achromat. Comparisons of all sorts have been made and committed to CD for review. Old deck was a Gyrodec with Techno arm, similar comparisons were found on that too. The MP200 vs the AT33EV, on a given set up, showed mixed positives, The AT was more fluid in the mids and slightly sweeter at the top with a weightier bass. But the bass was tighter and more controlled on the MP200 (AT a touch flabby) and the mids and presence more tactile and real also on the MP200. That's the short version as a summary, so I am considering the AT33PTG/iii only thing , for me, with MC is the difficulty with replacement styluses. I kept my AT630 SUT as I liked the sound years back over several other options including an Ortofon MCA76
      For the rest of the Phono stage I have a small Art DJ pro ii with capacitance loading and level control - it works better than the price might suggest and far better than any Amplifier Phone stages I have used. Comparing with the 2M Black the PTG/iii in your test, the PTG sounds 'more better' then in another test of 10 carts where I also heard the MP300 and 2M Black ~ and preferred the MP300. So I suspect either MP300 or PTG/iii will be better than the AT33EV ...
      I just cannot find anywhere on the internet a comparison with the MP300 (or 500 ) with the PTG/iiiAnyway I am really enjoying your tests and comparisons and talks -- keep up the good work Geoff C

  • @JoshC321
    @JoshC321 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Click and Pop free. WTG Ben!

    • @BensAudioCave
      @BensAudioCave  3 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      Little bit of surface noise but hey life has surface noise LOLz 😂

    • @JoshC321
      @JoshC321 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@BensAudioCave Right!

  • @reyiiteleco
    @reyiiteleco 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    At33ptg hands down better. More musical, sweet sound, don't know how to describe it...but pleasant to my ears

  • @jerryandlisa27
    @jerryandlisa27 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Wich is your favorite?

    • @BensAudioCave
      @BensAudioCave  2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Honestly the AT33PTG/2 and it has just gotten better and better as time has went on:
      amzn.to/3ArCnJm

    • @BensAudioCave
      @BensAudioCave  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      However, I will give an honorable mention and that is the ATVM95ML I acquired for the Fisher table seen in other videos... It outclasses the Black (IMHO) and that is something for a $170 cart
      amzn.to/3SRKCFE

  • @milanulrich
    @milanulrich 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    even on yt you can hear AT better low extension and mids better soundstage

    • @BensAudioCave
      @BensAudioCave  6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      I know right? It’s pretty crazy

  • @54tristin
    @54tristin 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    They all sound like an iPad mini to me!

    • @BensAudioCave
      @BensAudioCave  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Well of course if you aren't listening on your actual stereo... Just a guide to help folks on the fence.

    • @54tristin
      @54tristin 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@BensAudioCave I was making a joke. Keep up the good work!

    • @BensAudioCave
      @BensAudioCave  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@54tristin I figured as much way being cheeky myself 😄

  • @classiccoupe666
    @classiccoupe666 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    PTG33 sounded best.. to me

  • @leon9021
    @leon9021 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Still much prefer the Shure and AT.

  • @ApatheticMeh
    @ApatheticMeh 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Surprisingly Ortofon sounds like trash even compared to M97. I'm shocked.

    • @BensAudioCave
      @BensAudioCave  6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      You know, it was my standard forever… you don’t realize how cold something sounds until you A/B it… always knew it was brutal to any imperfection but not to the extent evidenced here… Thanks for watching!

  • @PhonoDirect
    @PhonoDirect 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    A terrible choice of music for such a test. Doesn't show much.

    • @BensAudioCave
      @BensAudioCave  11 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Thanks for watching