It's pretty freakin rad that there's a whip expert out here to inform us all in an obscure topic. I didn't even realize there were, like, whip experts.
He's not only an expert, he quoted several people (like Anthony DeLongis) who are well-known (in certain circles) weapons experts for stunt and movie work! Mr. DeLongis has been "in the business" in movies for a long time, he is also a swordmaster!
Lets just be straight here the whip lacks lethality. Which makes it a great side weapon like in Indiana Jones, but there is a reason OG Indie carries a gun.
@@pangboi3453 100% not many people continue fighting after losing an eye. It's also worth mentioning a crack next to the ear is not only deadening but messes with balance composure etc.
Reasonable critique, informative, excellently taught, and in a civilised manner inviting a civilised discussion. There indeed _is_ hope for humanity. I humbly thank you. 😊
I think Shad made it very clear during the video that none of them were experts and they were giving a sort of beginner's assessment on the potential of the whip as well as obvious flaws. Overall I think they did a good job, and your response was equally informative.
Coming from Shad, this was a very interesting video to watch! I hope Shad watches it and does a follow up video sometime in the future after they learn more about how to use the whip and stuff.
As a fan of Shad's channel I really enjoyed your comments on this video they did. As others mentioned you were very respectful, informative and interesting. Thank you for taking the time to put this together 👏
I think it seems that whenever they ask if its an effective weapon they seem to judging things mainly on its ease of use, its efficiency, and the power it can bring to its strikes rather than its usage and intent of design. Basically they feel the best is the easiest to use weapon that can bring a lot of efficient damage to a foe per attack with little added difficulty due to function.
Indeed, if I use a bottle as weapon it is kinda crappy compared to a 'real' weapon, being a short harder to hold and not very heavy club equivalent. Which does not mean you can't use it, it just doesn't compare. Use a whip it seems like it is really more of the same, not a good weapon really just for different reasons. Does not make it bad as a tool, or mean you can't use it as a weapon but if you are expecting a battle you take a spear, quarterstaff, sword etc as they are just better weapons, and weapons you can much more easily use around your friends co-operatively. For self defence in a civilian setting or perhaps as part of an adventurer's gear a whip might make a good option, being able to reach, entangle and easy enough to carry, though you would still want to pair it with something else. At which point a buckler and sword is probably better in every way for the combat side as there is no chance your weapon will be snagged on the table/chair, entangle you etc and the damage a whip will do if you do land a blow seems far less likely to win the fight - you are putting all your eggs in the one basket of hitting a good spot while out of their measure, fail that and you are in trouble without a good plan B.
I'm a long time fan of Shadiversity, and my take is he tends to view weapons with a bias towards the military/battlefield and how effective it would be for armies fighting wars. One thing this video could have done better is demonstrate the techniques against a resisting opponent. i see too many martial arts where they demonstrate the moves on a complying opponent. When, in a real life self defense scenario, would you ever find an opponent who will just let you do anything you want to do and make no effort to disrupt what you're trying to do? Sparing at full speed against a resisting opponent is so huge in translating from raw technique to real world applications.
But for a weapon that is the point. The best weapon is the one that requires the least training for most deadly force. Why did muskets and firearms in general replaced the bow and arrow? Because it was much easier and faster to teach the peasants how to use a musket and on top of that the "bullets" were better at penetrating the armor of that period. Before muskets there was the crossbow. Also effective but it didn't require as much training as the bow. That made it preferable when you had to arm a lot of untrained people.
@@ShinobiFic Not just the training there is also the logistics - the crossbow bolt is small and generally doesn't have delicate fletching so you can really pack them in. The same is largely true of musket as well. Where even the weapon is just an expensive stick so spares are quite easy to transport, the shot takes up almost no space, it is just the blackpowder that poses some transport challenge, and even then it is still just bulk transport in barrel with some caution around source of ignition. You replace many mule, wagon and barrel worth of supplies just for supporting the bow down really quite substantially, which them means an even bigger reduction as with less mules in supply train you need less mules to carry the supply for the mules...
@@foldionepapyrus3441 True. I was just speaking in terms of on field use. Because even if it is a pain when it comes to logistics if it is a "powerful" weapon they will go through the trouble of bringing it. Siege engines are a good example of "weapons" that are a pain in the ass but considered powerful enough to bother with them. Аlthough they are not a good example for what I was saying.
I learned more about whip techniques and perspectives than any other video I have watched on the topic. I really love how you also reference the different techniques, experts, teachers, etc. I also appreciate that your discussion is objective and focused. No Ad hominem arguments, just a great discussion of the pluses, minuses, and neutrals of the whip. I would love to see more of your content! I hope @shadiversity sees your video because I think this is a fantastic response video talking about the whip. I couldn't stop watching because of the approach, style, and your humor. You have a great approach to reasoning both with seriousness and lightening it with humor. Bravo!
This was a great video. As a sash whip and meteor hammer practitioner, my response to Shadiversity is frequently, "Yes. But..." There's only so much that you can do with the kind of anecdotal experimentation that they do, sometimes you just need a master. Its like medicine, most things get better on thier own, and with a good foundation and some cursery research you can BS your way through the things you don't know, but sometimes you just need a doctor.
I'm glad you wrapped up with the dual whip exercise. I would not try to attack that guy. The whip is an expert's tool. The leap in skil between competence and expertise with a whip is massive. I believe that in the hands of an expert the whip can be a very effective weapon. In the hands of a novice it could prove to be more of a hindrance than help.
I think weapons are often used in context of battlefields, fights, surprise attacks and so on. I do not know how well it works in those contexts. But in an open field duel with no armor it is certainly something I wouldn't want to go against.
They used to whip slaves. In a fight to the death you better hope the sheer adrenaline doesn’t let them put their weapon through you. Cause charging straight towards you, good luck “cracking” it like a bottle sitting still
I think a good point to remember with weapons like whips, nunchuks, and batons, are they're mainly meant as less lethal pain compliance weapons. If you want to stop an attacker without killing him these are very good weapons to do that. Weapons like swords, axes, or bec'de'corbins much less so, you're too liable to accidentally kill your opponent rather then just scare them off or otherwise make them stop attacking you.
A baton is still very much a lethal weapon, as is a nunchuck, a solid hit with either of them to the head can easily kill someone. They are less intimidating blunt weapons, so I wouldn't say these are meant to be less lethal.
I watched Shad's whip video and groaned through most of it, because in my youth, I was fairly proficient with a whip. I had a 10 foot whip I could crack a quarter with consistently. (At the time, I didn't know anything about all the different styles you mentioned, and I will have to check them out.) I knew that with a few months practice, a lot of the "problems" they were bringing up would cease being problems. I knew slicing open a pop can was not only possible, but it was something I personally did easily (20 years ago), so their inabilities with the plastic water bottle bugged me no end. I'm so glad you made this video, and I would love to see you and Shad make a follow up video where you show him what an expert can actually do with a whip.
Shad has the disadvantage of living in Australia which makes inviting experts (like the Mythbusters did back in the day) harder. However I agree that despite the channel being entertainment, those videos were coming from a less well researched place than his usual ones. He should reach out to the community more and consult experts but of course then complicates the video making process and he probably doesn't have the per episode budget the Mythbusters had
Whip user like you would have been the clown of the past. Not that you’d have survived long at all. The “master” didn’t show anything in a spar for a reason. You can’t do any of that shit when you can’t stand still. Even actors like Bruce Lee knew bottles and cans don’t hit back 😂
"Can be used as a nunchuck." That will not help your case with Shad, lol. But I love this video! Seeing Shad and his merry men of knights using the whip made me cringe a little. I am no expert, as I never used a whip before. However, I have seen them used enough times to know that they were doing it very wrong and were making a judgment prematurely. I think the whip has a lot of great potential and I hope Shad sees this video and gets an expert to prove and maybe disprove a lot of your points.
The flail neither. ;) Nor is "A tool isn't inherently good or bad" (see: nunchucks vs stick) or admitting to have hit yourself in any conceivable place (even if you clarify it was i nteh absolute beginning, it'S much more likely to happen with a a flexible weapon than a rigid one).
@@a.i.a3949 They did throw those knives pretty poorly, but throwing knives at mail, even if it was done by a master, would not yield much results. Unless...it was more of a fine point knife, but then it might start bordering on being a dart before it starts becoming effective.
I love these response videos from actual professionals. I hope to see so much more like this where Shad dives a bit into a topic and then more well informed people explain a bit more about it !
Glad to see that an expert agrees with the good found, is able to corroborate the bad found, and then correct the naive mistake made due to inexperience. Great video, y’all have a good day
If you are comfortable with making videos like this, then I’d love to see a follow up on stuff like how easy it is to carry, how fast you can get it out, what other uses other than the ones listed in the video. And if you feel like it, we would really enjoy seeing a professional whip dude use it on a moving target. Sorry if I comment a lot, I just get excited :)
Thank you for this, I thought about some of these points as Shadiversity was going through their video. But for them picking up the whip for the first time, it takes a lot of training.
Spectacular video. You cover all the important points in a way that everyone can understand and show the variety of ways whips can be used as well as possible shortcomings. Great cracking!
i just want to point out that you can use a sword in a cramped enviroment , because you can still stab and stab (at least , with most sword ) . and "grabbing" a sword is a good way to get cut . you want armor to be able to grab a sword , but adding armor to the whole argument would just make it harder on the whip capacity .
You can use a whip in a cramped environment by crippling its ability, just like you can use a sword by crippling its ability. Whip can be used more than just by cracking it, as this video had brought up several times. As for grabbing a sword, most swords in regular battles weren't actually that sharp. A sharper sword will break faster while not being any more lethal. If you tried to focus all your strength on the edge part of the blade then you would most certainly get yourself cut, but if you focus your grab on the flat parts, you CAN grab a sword barehanded and, if the sword isn't freshly sharpened and your strength is comparable or higher than the other person, you can actually hold it without any serious cuts. For a cut, the sword must actually move across. So yes. A sword can be grabbed as well. Most single-edged swords can be safely grabbed with zero experience and little thought, even. Virtually all other weapons have a buttload of options to be grabbed and make them 'useless' (depends on strength comparison between the people). Spear is literally over 90% just a stick that if grabbed, makes the weapon totally useless (or if the opponent is stronger than you, can be used against you). It's all about not letting the opponent have the opportunity to grab the weapon.
There are literally hundreds of videos on TH-cam of HEMA practitioners explaining and demonstrating the effectiveness of grabbing a sword blade, even with a bare hand.
@@Rystefn i hope you realize the difference with grabbing a whip , and be ready to lose your hand by grabbing a sword . it is naturaly better to grab the blade than get stabbed , but a whip is litteraly something you want to grab at any time .
Plus if you grab a sword blade that may stop it from swinging around, but you can still push through to stab at the holder or seriously lacerate digits.
*Excellent Response Video! - Very Professional!* Thank you! I hope @Shadiversity gets to see this, I think he would appreciate such a well done, and proper response.
This is quite a great feedback video! Very reasonable, very informative, and very well explained. I was genuinely curious if any whip experts out there would be able to weigh in on Shad's video, as they stated a fair numerous times, "we are not experts, therefore, our findings may be incomplete or not as efficient as someone who is well trained". So I'm glad you made a response video, as you provided a lot to learn from as well as validated/critiqued the reviewing process they had undergone. Great video!
When they were whipping the tree branch I believe they were testing the idea of using a whip as a grappling hook to swing across a chasm ala Indiana Jones.
I'm glad to see that you brought up a lot of the points that were defiantly lacking in shads video and his comments made known. like the whip having different sizes. and I hope maybe we will get a reaction video of his to your video to see if he changes his opinion or looks at the whip in a different way
Great response and I think shaduniversity will enjoy your input. That being said I’ve goofed around with a bull whip and the level of skill needed for rope or whipping weapons is massive. There’s definitely a reason no army would prefer them to a bladed weapon and shield. In all my practice a one handed blade and a light shield would have no problem fighting one whip user. I do think the whip has tons of battle applications but is just too difficult to make as big of an impact as a spear would, even when used on a horse or platform. I think the best application would be for capturing a soldier alive which I do believe is one thing they’ve been used for. All in all great video. I’d love to see you try mastering other weapons and seeing what if any whip applications could be easily replaced.
I reckon a whip would be an ineffective medieval battlefield weapon but could be quite a viable self defense weapon, where people are less likely to be wearing armour and its long range and loud cracking would be very intimidating, even against groups
Or at least it gives you an easier time attracting onlookers, so you'll have witnesses in court, unles you're a bit of a dnd murderhobo of course than that might not be a +!😂😅
Very interesting video. I thought whip was mostly a traditional and cultural thing, but it turns out to be sth completely different from what I anticipated. Not gonna lie I got slightly interested in whips. I doubt I'll pursue learning how to use them, but I'll definitively look into what masters of the whip can do using it
Thanks for considering the whip. It is a vast field, especially where the whip was invented 5000 years ago in Egypt and China, and has been used in nearly every culture since then. TH-cam is a great resource for whip cracking information if you are interested in learning more.
More useful as a snare, wrap it around a fast moving person or beasts legs and their going down and you move in. It can also be done with a lariet and dates back to the Steppes. There are other kinds of whips, a leather thong on a sapling wraps around very nice.
Well said, well composed, well researched with citations. Really a benchmark for video replies. That said, I think I’d rather have a staff (or a gun, knife, hammer, etc) if we’re talking combat encounters. I’d absolutely take a whip+knife combo though.
@@seanrea550 it doesnt though. if they were trying to avoid the tree and it kept getting caught, sure. but the specific point was to do the indiana jones wrap. so no, it doesnt prove his point since they were purposefully hitting the tree, it wasnt an accident.
@@scorpionlord9175 Exactly. They do mention in the video how the whip does tangle with sticks and other parts of the surroundings in other portions, but that specific clip they're TRYING to get it to wrap and hold and it won't. Now, I didn't think it would hold, that's a movie magic thing not realistic without some kind of weight on the end. -- That being said, they're not experts nor are they scientists so their testing is more for entertainment value.
@@scorpionlord9175 They were trying to get it caught on the tree branch and other branches often got in the way. That's how they concluded that it's easy for things to get in the way, though it was literally their first time using a whip so I doubt any conclusions they made about its inaccuracy.
Excellent!!! Thank you for making this video and educating the non whip users. I love Anthony's video about using the whip as a flail, mace, rope dart.. etc.
The wrapping part from 5:23 they were specifically trying to make the whip wrap and catch such that they could pull on it, like the trope of using a whip to swing across stuff. Basically to show that it couldn't be done / test it.
Love the respectful response for a change in these types of videos, but I still curious bout the whole Indiana Jones using the whip to swing from a pole
Being a fan of historical pugilism and prize fighting, whips were often used to keep the crowd at bay during a fight. I think it is interesting as a form of crowd control
It's amazing, He's ignorant and informative at the same time. I think he watched the Shadiversity on mute or multitasking and not paying full attention and was not listening, when he saw this episode, because if he did he would know, they mentioned several times through the Shadiversity podcast that they have no experience with whips. I have no problem him pointing out there mistakes or filling in the facts. But when he mis-quote's or ignore and invoke his own feeling's over. What is said and seen to protect his own insecurties. That just annoys me. I do believe you can use the whip as an attack or defense weapon and there might be several styles to do that. I just don't think it's necessary to drag someone else down to make yourself look better, Is he a professional Whipper, more power to him, but as a pod caster need's lots of work.
All of this video, and not a singular mention about lethality, which is what you primarily wish to have in a weapon (usually). A whip just is not lethal, period. "Any object can be an effective weapon if you try hard enough." Wrong. Just about any object can be *used* as a weapon, but that doesn't mean the object will be as effective at being a weapon, as a dedicated weapon. A whip is not an effective LETHAL weapon. This being said, very fun video and I would love to see Shad do a video response!
I think if you incapacitate a person for several minutes then lethality is just a side topic. You can just walk to a person and strangle him with the whip afterwards. Also in various fighting scenarios the killing of the opponent is not necessarily necessary. For example in ambushes, riots and duels you just need to make the enemy stop. On a battlefield or as a fight to the death this is a different topic. But weapons are not all designed for battlefield combat, so we can have effective non-deadly weapons.
When you mentioned, around 5:20, the "whip getting caught on the environment" ... iiirc, they were doing that intentionally ... to test whether or not you could use a whip like a "grappling hook" to swing on, like Indiana Jones.
You misunderstand I think - he is saying that the environment, i.e., the surrounding branches and twigs were preventing the effective use of the whip to wrap around the tree limb.
I always thought the whip is less of a weapon and more of a tool . Similar to say a pitchfork or shovel etc , yeah it could be used as weapon and might in very slim ideolic conditions perform well . But at the end of the day it's not an effective weapon for most conditions and situations .
I am always more impressed by response videos that address the issue rather than the person. Just the simple fact that you spoke about whips rather than about Shad, et al, is commendable in this day and age. Further, I thought you made some very valid points and supported your points effectively. Thank you. One question, what about the overbearing techniques where whip users score take downs against their opponent? I'm always hesitant to call it a "grappling" technique because the whip doesn't seem to hold on for any length of time, at least in my limited experience. When wrapped around an ankle or lower leg, it will certainly hold on long enough to pull the leg out from under the opponent however. Once again, that is in my limited experience. I've used this technique once in a desperate situation and it worked. Was my experience a one-off situation or are whips capable of doing such things reliably?
I enjoyed both vids. Both experts gave logical concessions to both yes and no evaluations of whether a whip is a good weapon. This is how a debate should go and is the way to make better and advance the topic at hand. I'll check out more of your content. I like your style and the way you deliver some of your lines in a dead-pan tine.
Hey Derek, you should take the spotlight and make a video about the latest episode (6) of Star Wars: The Acolyte. There is a lot of discussion going on about the effectiveness of whips in general and lightsaber whips in particular regarding a whip as a weapon in a fight.
i am enjoying your video, when they talked about dual wielding with a whip I had a fun thought that a spiked targe (round shield) paired with a whip would be interesting.
I appreciate this analysis. I am glad that Shad and his boys did right by your expertise. I have more appreciation for the whip because of both of your videos.
Good video, thanks for making it, I saw Shads video and it’s good to see the reaction of someone who is actually more knowledgeable about the whip. You make a lot of good points however you also make a lot of ‘errors’ for instance a sword actually would be an effective weapon in a tunnel, especially if the user thrust with it ,but also some swords are sword like the Gladius. Compared to an Axe, knife and spear to some degree, mace, and a whip, a sword will still work really well. The problem with the whip and the reason it isn’t an effective weapon is that it does actually need space, more so than other weapons, plus it can be entangled and grabbed as Shad demonstrated, just saying “it can happen to other weapons” isn’t a good defence, axes don’t get stuck in shields often and no one is grabbing the blade part of a sword in a dual. Even with gloves you’d be keeping your distance or parrying with your own sword instead of trying to grab the sword. A whip would be tempting to try an grab as demonstrated. On the same note, yes accidents happen but no one is stabbing themselves with swords or axes, they certainly are cutting every part of their body especially their eyes. The main problem with whips is that they aren’t a good versatile weapon. yes armour stops a lot of weapons but even swords can get through certain types or just break the bones underneath or bruise them. Even a fully plated knight isn’t going to let himself get hit by an axe or sword, as physical weapons that are rigid they can keep enemies back and apply other means of stopping an attacker, a whip being flexible can’t keep an opponent back, especially after they get whipped once and the armour stops the pain, the opponent will know that they have nothing to fear.
5:19 in this bit, you are talking about the whip getting caught on the environment. They were attempting to test if the whip can be used (as seen in India Jones) to grab and swing from an object
Greetings from Croatia !!!! Great video Man. In 5:20 mark He is trying to grab onto the branch with the whip, and not that the branch is gets in the way.
Hey Taylor first off you've really open me up to the idea of a whip as a discipline so bravo good sir. If I made sound a little ignorant it's almost like the whip (outside of styles) is a weapon that is more or less limited by how the user can figure out every way to make it offensive. Now I have an idea that I'm very curious about when it comes to vs armor like chain or plate. What about have a metal cap or even a stud at the bottom end of the handle when using it like nunchuk? maybe something is like a quick attachment/detachment so you could control the increased risk it would pose to the user? Great video bro, I'm subbing because of how well you have shown that you clearly know what you are talking about.
I think one thing that Shad and his team neglected to state but it became quite obvious in their analysis was "is this a lethal weapon" and that answer is.... no, an untrained person is not going to kill someone with a 10' leather bullwhip. Right tool for the job and all. The whip can blind, maim, and be I think a more defensive rather than offensive weapon. I think that the whip can be used to keep an attacker at a distance, can disable an attacker and can injure an attacker. But can it kill someone by striking them in an armored chest? No.
I mentioned how I got into whips for a brief period on Shad's channel. I got a bull whip cheap from a bloke at work and tried to pracice. I was off work sick with an eye injury and took it onto the grass near my house and started practicing. It was going great guns then I managed to pull it back and got the tip right on my eye. Fortunately I weat glasses and I was aware eye pretection was sensible so it was more embarissing than painful. I made the mistake of telling my mother and she told my brother and I never heard the end of it. People singing 'Whip crack away' when I walked in a room. I never made much of it as it was difficulkt to practice, I really didn't want people seeing me and it was too long for indoors.
What a seriously good video! Got the impression that you were a tad irritated at some of their conclusions, and, yeah, I get it. I’m a software engineer who was rolling his eyes at the hype around the “meta verse”, so I know the feeling. But FANTASTIC VIDEO, I learned a lot!!!
A great video. I love the use of clips from both Shad's video and the various masters you referred to. Well scripted and on point answer too. Also, the ending made me chuckle. :D
I have not seen the Shadiversity video, but I feel my question would have been answered in this video along with all the others things that were answered. What about the whip as a tool to entangle and set off balance (like entangling lower leg, close to the foot, to pull and make opponent fall)? Is that very viable, because usually an opponent off balance is easier to attack and hit.
So, one question that i feel is sort of unanswered is the whips ability to trip and disarm, that's generally its purpose in TTRPGs. Would it be feasible to snag a foot ot a sword?
I agree with others that I hope Shad sees this. His testing frustrated me when I saw his video, especially since we come from Australia where stock whips are still a common enough tool. It might be interesting if Shad could give you a list of tasks or criteria the whip would have to meet in order to be an effective weapon. Then someone with more experience like you could give him the results.
As in Archery the modern non practitioner discounts the pinpoint accuracy of placement for a practitioner of the whip (or indeed bow). Accuracy is a force multiplier with numerous benefits. While a whip may at first seem somewhat ineffectual against armored opponents you can not underestimate its ability to force a reflex-reaction in an opponent which is easily exploited. There are practical concerns the layman could not readily appreciate.
I once bought a wushu chain whip on a whim, and very quickly realized it posed a much greater danger to me than to any opponent. Huge respect to those who have the bravery to build such skills!
This is a very well put together and very respectful video as well as super super informative I just recently got a bullwhip and I am not very good at it yet so I think I'll be checking this channel that little bit more thank you
Greetings Taylor. I must ask if you see anything about the "rebenque" a short whip used in South America that was used as a weapon in "Esgrima Criolla". But mainly it was an expensive tool for horsemen.
Love it when someone replies to one of Shad's videos, especially someone with a good knowledge about the subject. It also means a reply from shad an more knowledge!
Ah, Shad and with his old silly shenanigans. He said that nunchuks is stupid and start swinging it like a staff. You can't even swing a sword the same way you swing the staff, even more you can't swing any rope/chain based weapons (nunchuks, kusarigama, flail, rope dart, whip) like a staff. Even whip itself has so different techniques than other rope/chain based weapons.
How well can you "whip yourself into shape" with whips? Like in terms of endurance, stamina, controle, strength etc or would you have to look for a diffirent regimen in those regards?
A very important point at 6:30ish of catching the whip is that the defender has a ton of armor and padding. If the defender does not have gloves or super padding, grabbing the whip is just as dangerous as grabbing a sword. Grabbing an object that can cause incredible pain to your hand which is not something you will reasonably want to do.
From what i know from whips (using wet towels haha) Only a small area is actually dangerous when whipping, so it'd be pretty difficult to reliably hit someone with the sweet spot let alone specific areas like the eyes. You'd essentially have to time where the opponent would be ahead of time if they rush at you
Of all the places I've hit myself, the one that hurt the most was when I did a overhead with my chain whip, and got the angle wrong and brought the chain right into my fingertips.....I felt that one for a couple of hours.
I am fairly certain that if you know a great whipper in Australia and help set it up, that Shad and gang would be more than willing to revisit this ^_^ I for one would love to see it!
Great video. At a Sayok Kali seminar in Tampa I once saw and heard a whip used indoors and it would blow your eardrums out! So fast and definitely didn’t wanna be hit by that!
So if the whip was used in a a combat scenario, would you first use the popper to stun and use the handle to finish them off? The whip can be used as a baton or flail(7:08).
How you block with it? Like if we take hard one-to-one combat with a quatrestaff vs whip, how you use it? This is not attacking. This is real question.
Check out Anthony De Longis’ page. He has a lot of courses on how to use whips, and there is no better teacher than he. Adam Winrich also has a great number of videos on TH-cam that teach whip use. buymeacoffee.com/anthonydelongis/extras
I am very glad Shad made his video, because without it, I would've never learned that whip experts exist, and that the whip is a lot more interesting of a weapon then I first thought. This was a very interesting video
Okay, so a few things. I saw Shads video a while a go and just saw this response, so kudos for responding and setting the record straight on some of the specifics. It is interesting to hear the take from someone more educated on soft weapons, and whips specifically. I hate soft weapons myself. Can't stand em. They hate me too. Two left feet and a need for an ice pack if I'm not wearing a cup any time I try to practice, level of hate and rage. =P That said. You don't slash with a spear. You thrust. You "can" slice with it, but a spear is a predominantly thrusting weapon with an emphasis on threat range and zone control. Terrible examples used to try and argue weapon restrictions/usage vs environment. Honestly the environmental sizing a whip needs is an issue with most soft weapons that "most" hard weapons don't have. The exception are hard weapons with no thrust capacity, which would generally be bludgeon weapons or extremely curved cutters. Pretty much everything else is going to be usable within a confined area, assuming the confinement allows for movement in at least 1 axis of freedom, including something like a tunnel/hallway. Not all hard weapons will perform equally well, but all will perform better than a whip in such an environment. Also, Shad did emphasize that none of his group were remotely competent with whips and it was just for proof of concept. His general analysis still stands fairly accurate in his assessment. Unless the whip wielder(must resist random alliteration =P) has mastered their weapon, and is against an inexperienced newbie... the whip just doesn't have the threat of lethality needed for a good primary. Can it cut skin and possibly do lethal/debilitating damage with a good shot? Sure. An eye, wrist, or throat that gets popped hard enough to tear it up could be a really crippling strike..... however that is reliant on a strike being not only landed on a specifically vulnerable location, but the strike landing with a very specific part of the weapon at a very specific point of the travel. It can do it, and a master can land those far more frequently... but I'll step into a ring with a master whip user, if I get armor and a sword/spear, well before l will try and use a soft weapon against a new swordsman. I will likely get injured by the whip. I'm likely dead from the swordsman. That's the main point that was made. Also, while a good video for general content addressed, you need to work on camera personality. For half the video you came across as enthusiastic as Plank from Ed, Eddie, and Eddy. If you are passionate about the art, show it. Feel free to respond to Shad and say "No, that's stupid and here's why!", just follow it up with a good reasoning and examples and make sure it is... polite to the person if not the video or opinion. If you see them doing something wrong. Laugh. Explain why/how they're doing it wrong, and the impact it can have on their impact, and then move along. I'm honestly not sure if you repeated the same point 3-4 times, or if I just misunderstood, but I also chalk that up to the near-monotone and lack of structure. Pretty sure a lot of that might be due to nervousness and possibly bring camera shy when dumping on Shad/a much larger channel. Don't be nervous to call Shad out respectfully. He has stated plenty of times that he is fine being corrected and welcomes it, and his community is the least rabid group I've seen on youtube over critique. Here's to hoping this criticism is received in the spirit it is meant, and that it helps you grow. Best of luck on future videos! Hopefully this response will slowly pull the HEMA crowd and you grow from having the balls to call out a bigger channel respectfully!
Just realize how negative my comment might have come across. Over all, good video. My comment was critique of what could be improved for a smaller channel. I did watch the whole thing because it was genuinely interesting. When you weren't stalling while picking words, you definitely showed the enthusiasm for the art. I am also, as stated, terrible with soft weapons... so I can only really add critique. Can't speak to validity of your information, aside from it sounds about right, or add to anything there. Once more, best of luck in growing!
Hmmm.. this makes me wonder how possible or effective it would be to make a "combat whip"? Would it be possible to add some kind of "mace head" on the base of a whip handle after finding a balance point between weight of material used? And would it still be heavy enough to be an effective mace?
Old leather whips had a lead counter weight on the bottom knot, you can do that and have a 1-1/2 foot handle, that would be okay, you can swap the end knot with a straight up mace head and be good.
There are 2 handed whips that are more less a querterstaff with a whip at the end too.
It's pretty freakin rad that there's a whip expert out here to inform us all in an obscure topic. I didn't even realize there were, like, whip experts.
There are experts for any topic or field. There is beauty and art in almost everything.
He's not only an expert, he quoted several people (like Anthony DeLongis) who are well-known (in certain circles) weapons experts for stunt and movie work! Mr. DeLongis has been "in the business" in movies for a long time, he is also a swordmaster!
Shad could make a video on eating peas and pea-eating experts would come out of the woodwork.
Lets just be straight here the whip lacks lethality. Which makes it a great side weapon like in Indiana Jones, but there is a reason OG Indie carries a gun.
A whip does not lack lethality against unarmored opponents. One hit to your eyes and you are blinded.
@@cameron2318I think lethal means killing, not blinding
@@cameron2318 Agreed. I think the comment was using lethality referring to deadliness, leaving out the rest of its definition, serious injury.
@@cameron2318 Almost literally every weapon can blind someone. My fingernails can blind someone.
@@pangboi3453 100% not many people continue fighting after losing an eye. It's also worth mentioning a crack next to the ear is not only deadening but messes with balance composure etc.
Very glad someone with a lot of experience is making a response. Very interesting discussion.
Reasonable critique, informative, excellently taught, and in a civilised manner inviting a civilised discussion. There indeed _is_ hope for humanity. I humbly thank you. 😊
I think Shad made it very clear during the video that none of them were experts and they were giving a sort of beginner's assessment on the potential of the whip as well as obvious flaws. Overall I think they did a good job, and your response was equally informative.
Yeah. I thought this video is incredibly well. Especially for the size of the channel.
@@tomatopotato1136channel size is pretty meaniglessas far as quality goes
Idk how anyone can even watch shadiversity. It's like the guy that cuts everyone else off in traffic
@@beargillium2369 So he is an asshole for loving what he does?
@@beargillium2369 idk what you mean
Coming from Shad, this was a very interesting video to watch! I hope Shad watches it and does a follow up video sometime in the future after they learn more about how to use the whip and stuff.
I dont know if a follow up is required. This guy basically agreed with them.
As a fan of Shad's channel I really enjoyed your comments on this video they did. As others mentioned you were very respectful, informative and interesting. Thank you for taking the time to put this together 👏
I think it seems that whenever they ask if its an effective weapon they seem to judging things mainly on its ease of use, its efficiency, and the power it can bring to its strikes rather than its usage and intent of design.
Basically they feel the best is the easiest to use weapon that can bring a lot of efficient damage to a foe per attack with little added difficulty due to function.
Indeed, if I use a bottle as weapon it is kinda crappy compared to a 'real' weapon, being a short harder to hold and not very heavy club equivalent. Which does not mean you can't use it, it just doesn't compare.
Use a whip it seems like it is really more of the same, not a good weapon really just for different reasons. Does not make it bad as a tool, or mean you can't use it as a weapon but if you are expecting a battle you take a spear, quarterstaff, sword etc as they are just better weapons, and weapons you can much more easily use around your friends co-operatively. For self defence in a civilian setting or perhaps as part of an adventurer's gear a whip might make a good option, being able to reach, entangle and easy enough to carry, though you would still want to pair it with something else. At which point a buckler and sword is probably better in every way for the combat side as there is no chance your weapon will be snagged on the table/chair, entangle you etc and the damage a whip will do if you do land a blow seems far less likely to win the fight - you are putting all your eggs in the one basket of hitting a good spot while out of their measure, fail that and you are in trouble without a good plan B.
I'm a long time fan of Shadiversity, and my take is he tends to view weapons with a bias towards the military/battlefield and how effective it would be for armies fighting wars.
One thing this video could have done better is demonstrate the techniques against a resisting opponent. i see too many martial arts where they demonstrate the moves on a complying opponent. When, in a real life self defense scenario, would you ever find an opponent who will just let you do anything you want to do and make no effort to disrupt what you're trying to do? Sparing at full speed against a resisting opponent is so huge in translating from raw technique to real world applications.
But for a weapon that is the point. The best weapon is the one that requires the least training for most deadly force. Why did muskets and firearms in general replaced the bow and arrow? Because it was much easier and faster to teach the peasants how to use a musket and on top of that the "bullets" were better at penetrating the armor of that period. Before muskets there was the crossbow. Also effective but it didn't require as much training as the bow. That made it preferable when you had to arm a lot of untrained people.
@@ShinobiFic Not just the training there is also the logistics - the crossbow bolt is small and generally doesn't have delicate fletching so you can really pack them in. The same is largely true of musket as well. Where even the weapon is just an expensive stick so spares are quite easy to transport, the shot takes up almost no space, it is just the blackpowder that poses some transport challenge, and even then it is still just bulk transport in barrel with some caution around source of ignition. You replace many mule, wagon and barrel worth of supplies just for supporting the bow down really quite substantially, which them means an even bigger reduction as with less mules in supply train you need less mules to carry the supply for the mules...
@@foldionepapyrus3441 True. I was just speaking in terms of on field use. Because even if it is a pain when it comes to logistics if it is a "powerful" weapon they will go through the trouble of bringing it. Siege engines are a good example of "weapons" that are a pain in the ass but considered powerful enough to bother with them. Аlthough they are not a good example for what I was saying.
I learned more about whip techniques and perspectives than any other video I have watched on the topic. I really love how you also reference the different techniques, experts, teachers, etc.
I also appreciate that your discussion is objective and focused. No Ad hominem arguments, just a great discussion of the pluses, minuses, and neutrals of the whip.
I would love to see more of your content! I hope @shadiversity sees your video because I think this is a fantastic response video talking about the whip. I couldn't stop watching because of the approach, style, and your humor. You have a great approach to reasoning both with seriousness and lightening it with humor. Bravo!
This was a great video. As a sash whip and meteor hammer practitioner, my response to Shadiversity is frequently, "Yes. But..." There's only so much that you can do with the kind of anecdotal experimentation that they do, sometimes you just need a master. Its like medicine, most things get better on thier own, and with a good foundation and some cursery research you can BS your way through the things you don't know, but sometimes you just need a doctor.
What an honest, backed up, well presented reaction. Really good value content. Thanks for the effort. Have a nice day.
I'm glad you wrapped up with the dual whip exercise. I would not try to attack that guy. The whip is an expert's tool. The leap in skil between competence and expertise with a whip is massive. I believe that in the hands of an expert the whip can be a very effective weapon. In the hands of a novice it could prove to be more of a hindrance than help.
I think weapons are often used in context of battlefields, fights, surprise attacks and so on. I do not know how well it works in those contexts. But in an open field duel with no armor it is certainly something I wouldn't want to go against.
They used to whip slaves. In a fight to the death you better hope the sheer adrenaline doesn’t let them put their weapon through you. Cause charging straight towards you, good luck “cracking” it like a bottle sitting still
I think a good point to remember with weapons like whips, nunchuks, and batons, are they're mainly meant as less lethal pain compliance weapons. If you want to stop an attacker without killing him these are very good weapons to do that. Weapons like swords, axes, or bec'de'corbins much less so, you're too liable to accidentally kill your opponent rather then just scare them off or otherwise make them stop attacking you.
Yep pretty much made to hurt, made to scare, but it's not made to kill.
A baton is still very much a lethal weapon, as is a nunchuck, a solid hit with either of them to the head can easily kill someone. They are less intimidating blunt weapons, so I wouldn't say these are meant to be less lethal.
@@hannesh234 Less lethal does not mean nonlethal. You can easily kill someone by shooting them in the face with a rubber bullet, for example.
total BS you can easily kill with a baton or nunchuks, also the later isnt made to be less lethal but is a weaponised flail, an improvised weapon.
@@Genesis23OPB He never claimed that you couldn't kill someone with those weapons.
I watched Shad's whip video and groaned through most of it, because in my youth, I was fairly proficient with a whip. I had a 10 foot whip I could crack a quarter with consistently. (At the time, I didn't know anything about all the different styles you mentioned, and I will have to check them out.) I knew that with a few months practice, a lot of the "problems" they were bringing up would cease being problems. I knew slicing open a pop can was not only possible, but it was something I personally did easily (20 years ago), so their inabilities with the plastic water bottle bugged me no end. I'm so glad you made this video, and I would love to see you and Shad make a follow up video where you show him what an expert can actually do with a whip.
Shad has the disadvantage of living in Australia which makes inviting experts (like the Mythbusters did back in the day) harder. However I agree that despite the channel being entertainment, those videos were coming from a less well researched place than his usual ones. He should reach out to the community more and consult experts but of course then complicates the video making process and he probably doesn't have the per episode budget the Mythbusters had
Whip user like you would have been the clown of the past. Not that you’d have survived long at all. The “master” didn’t show anything in a spar for a reason. You can’t do any of that shit when you can’t stand still. Even actors like Bruce Lee knew bottles and cans don’t hit back 😂
I had one growing up too, and almost shat myself when I took out a fly in flight lol
"Can be used as a nunchuck." That will not help your case with Shad, lol.
But I love this video! Seeing Shad and his merry men of knights using the whip made me cringe a little. I am no expert, as I never used a whip before. However, I have seen them used enough times to know that they were doing it very wrong and were making a judgment prematurely. I think the whip has a lot of great potential and I hope Shad sees this video and gets an expert to prove and maybe disprove a lot of your points.
The flail neither. ;)
Nor is "A tool isn't inherently good or bad" (see: nunchucks vs stick) or admitting to have hit yourself in any conceivable place (even if you clarify it was i nteh absolute beginning, it'S much more likely to happen with a a flexible weapon than a rigid one).
Same thing with knife throwing
Great comment
@@a.i.a3949 They did throw those knives pretty poorly, but throwing knives at mail, even if it was done by a master, would not yield much results. Unless...it was more of a fine point knife, but then it might start bordering on being a dart before it starts becoming effective.
@@walkir2662saying that a flail is an innherently bad weapon is crazy given how widespread it's use was historically.
I love these response videos from actual professionals. I hope to see so much more like this where Shad dives a bit into a topic and then more well informed people explain a bit more about it !
Glad to see that an expert agrees with the good found, is able to corroborate the bad found, and then correct the naive mistake made due to inexperience. Great video, y’all have a good day
You must be a Beau-peep
I like how respectful and educational this video was
If you are comfortable with making videos like this, then I’d love to see a follow up on stuff like how easy it is to carry, how fast you can get it out, what other uses other than the ones listed in the video.
And if you feel like it, we would really enjoy seeing a professional whip dude use it on a moving target.
Sorry if I comment a lot, I just get excited :)
Thank you for this, I thought about some of these points as Shadiversity was going through their video. But for them picking up the whip for the first time, it takes a lot of training.
Spectacular video. You cover all the important points in a way that everyone can understand and show the variety of ways whips can be used as well as possible shortcomings. Great cracking!
Thanks for making the video. I was actually waiting for a response like this :)
(Former Goassl maker here)
i just want to point out that you can use a sword in a cramped enviroment , because you can still stab and stab (at least , with most sword ) . and "grabbing" a sword is a good way to get cut . you want armor to be able to grab a sword , but adding armor to the whole argument would just make it harder on the whip capacity .
You can use a whip in a cramped environment by crippling its ability, just like you can use a sword by crippling its ability. Whip can be used more than just by cracking it, as this video had brought up several times.
As for grabbing a sword, most swords in regular battles weren't actually that sharp. A sharper sword will break faster while not being any more lethal. If you tried to focus all your strength on the edge part of the blade then you would most certainly get yourself cut, but if you focus your grab on the flat parts, you CAN grab a sword barehanded and, if the sword isn't freshly sharpened and your strength is comparable or higher than the other person, you can actually hold it without any serious cuts. For a cut, the sword must actually move across.
So yes. A sword can be grabbed as well. Most single-edged swords can be safely grabbed with zero experience and little thought, even. Virtually all other weapons have a buttload of options to be grabbed and make them 'useless' (depends on strength comparison between the people). Spear is literally over 90% just a stick that if grabbed, makes the weapon totally useless (or if the opponent is stronger than you, can be used against you). It's all about not letting the opponent have the opportunity to grab the weapon.
There are literally hundreds of videos on TH-cam of HEMA practitioners explaining and demonstrating the effectiveness of grabbing a sword blade, even with a bare hand.
@@Rystefn i hope you realize the difference with grabbing a whip , and be ready to lose your hand by grabbing a sword .
it is naturaly better to grab the blade than get stabbed , but a whip is litteraly something you want to grab at any time .
Plus if you grab a sword blade that may stop it from swinging around, but you can still push through to stab at the holder or seriously lacerate digits.
@@Rystefn How many of them trying to grab a sharp blade in a fight?
from the words of the wise, old, and bald Matt Easton: CONTEXT!!!
He's not old ...lol
@@shaneturner77Depends on context
He'd probably also add that it's a great weapon, but doesn't have much penetration.
Just bald and old.
Very good response. Well thought out and explained. Thank you for sharing your knowledge. It was both helpful and kind.
*Excellent Response Video! - Very Professional!* Thank you! I hope @Shadiversity gets to see this, I think he would appreciate such a well done, and proper response.
This is quite a great feedback video! Very reasonable, very informative, and very well explained. I was genuinely curious if any whip experts out there would be able to weigh in on Shad's video, as they stated a fair numerous times, "we are not experts, therefore, our findings may be incomplete or not as efficient as someone who is well trained". So I'm glad you made a response video, as you provided a lot to learn from as well as validated/critiqued the reviewing process they had undergone. Great video!
This was so informative and respectful. I'd love to see you both collaborate! You guys really should do a joint video series
When they were whipping the tree branch I believe they were testing the idea of using a whip as a grappling hook to swing across a chasm ala Indiana Jones.
I'm glad to see that you brought up a lot of the points that were defiantly lacking in shads video and his comments made known. like the whip having different sizes. and I hope maybe we will get a reaction video of his to your video to see if he changes his opinion or looks at the whip in a different way
Thanks so much for this very informative video. Glad Shad brought up whips and very glad you added much more context.
Subbed m8, would love to see more context in such a particularly intricate field & your opinions on materials & whips available for sale
Great response and I think shaduniversity will enjoy your input. That being said I’ve goofed around with a bull whip and the level of skill needed for rope or whipping weapons is massive. There’s definitely a reason no army would prefer them to a bladed weapon and shield. In all my practice a one handed blade and a light shield would have no problem fighting one whip user. I do think the whip has tons of battle applications but is just too difficult to make as big of an impact as a spear would, even when used on a horse or platform. I think the best application would be for capturing a soldier alive which I do believe is one thing they’ve been used for. All in all great video. I’d love to see you try mastering other weapons and seeing what if any whip applications could be easily replaced.
I reckon a whip would be an ineffective medieval battlefield weapon but could be quite a viable self defense weapon, where people are less likely to be wearing armour and its long range and loud cracking would be very intimidating, even against groups
Or at least it gives you an easier time attracting onlookers, so you'll have witnesses in court, unles you're a bit of a dnd murderhobo of course than that might not be a +!😂😅
Very interesting video. I thought whip was mostly a traditional and cultural thing, but it turns out to be sth completely different from what I anticipated. Not gonna lie I got slightly interested in whips. I doubt I'll pursue learning how to use them, but I'll definitively look into what masters of the whip can do using it
Thanks for considering the whip. It is a vast field, especially where the whip was invented 5000 years ago in Egypt and China, and has been used in nearly every culture since then. TH-cam is a great resource for whip cracking information if you are interested in learning more.
You should look up bull whips they were purposely made to maim instead of mostly pain.
Whips are alot of fun to use and learn
More than anything else I'm glad shad made a topic where other channels can grow from. Or at least expanded my normal video log.
More useful as a snare, wrap it around a fast moving person or beasts legs and their going down and you move in. It can also be done with a lariet and dates back to the Steppes. There are other kinds of whips, a leather thong on a sapling wraps around very nice.
Well said, well composed, well researched with citations. Really a benchmark for video replies. That said, I think I’d rather have a staff (or a gun, knife, hammer, etc) if we’re talking combat encounters. I’d absolutely take a whip+knife combo though.
0:12 has given me "while you were partying, I studied the blade" meme vibes.
5:35 It’s getting caught on the tree because they’re trying to test the ‘Indy swings from his whip’ trope from the films.
It still proves the point even though they were unable to get effective wraps.
@@seanrea550 it doesnt though. if they were trying to avoid the tree and it kept getting caught, sure. but the specific point was to do the indiana jones wrap.
so no, it doesnt prove his point since they were purposefully hitting the tree, it wasnt an accident.
@@scorpionlord9175 Exactly. They do mention in the video how the whip does tangle with sticks and other parts of the surroundings in other portions, but that specific clip they're TRYING to get it to wrap and hold and it won't. Now, I didn't think it would hold, that's a movie magic thing not realistic without some kind of weight on the end. -- That being said, they're not experts nor are they scientists so their testing is more for entertainment value.
@@scorpionlord9175 They were trying to get it caught on the tree branch and other branches often got in the way. That's how they concluded that it's easy for things to get in the way, though it was literally their first time using a whip so I doubt any conclusions they made about its inaccuracy.
Excellent!!! Thank you for making this video and educating the non whip users. I love Anthony's video about using the whip as a flail, mace, rope dart.. etc.
The wrapping part from 5:23 they were specifically trying to make the whip wrap and catch such that they could pull on it, like the trope of using a whip to swing across stuff. Basically to show that it couldn't be done / test it.
Love the respectful response for a change in these types of videos, but I still curious bout the whole Indiana Jones using the whip to swing from a pole
Being a fan of historical pugilism and prize fighting, whips were often used to keep the crowd at bay during a fight. I think it is interesting as a form of crowd control
It has lots of reach and makes intimidating sounds and inflicts pain while not being lethal. Sounds like an excellent tool for civilian crowd control.
It's amazing, He's ignorant and informative at the same time. I think he watched the Shadiversity on mute or multitasking and not paying full attention and was not listening, when he saw this episode, because if he did he would know, they mentioned several times through the Shadiversity podcast that they have no experience with whips.
I have no problem him pointing out there mistakes or filling in the facts.
But when he mis-quote's or ignore and invoke his own feeling's over. What is said and seen to protect his own insecurties. That just annoys me.
I do believe you can use the whip as an attack or defense weapon and there might be several styles to do that.
I just don't think it's necessary to drag someone else down to make yourself look better, Is he a professional Whipper, more power to him, but as a pod caster need's lots of work.
All of this video, and not a singular mention about lethality, which is what you primarily wish to have in a weapon (usually). A whip just is not lethal, period.
"Any object can be an effective weapon if you try hard enough." Wrong. Just about any object can be *used* as a weapon, but that doesn't mean the object will be as effective at being a weapon, as a dedicated weapon. A whip is not an effective LETHAL weapon.
This being said, very fun video and I would love to see Shad do a video response!
I think if you incapacitate a person for several minutes then lethality is just a side topic. You can just walk to a person and strangle him with the whip afterwards. Also in various fighting scenarios the killing of the opponent is not necessarily necessary. For example in ambushes, riots and duels you just need to make the enemy stop. On a battlefield or as a fight to the death this is a different topic. But weapons are not all designed for battlefield combat, so we can have effective non-deadly weapons.
When you mentioned, around 5:20, the "whip getting caught on the environment" ... iiirc, they were doing that intentionally ... to test whether or not you could use a whip like a "grappling hook" to swing on, like Indiana Jones.
You misunderstand I think - he is saying that the environment, i.e., the surrounding branches and twigs were preventing the effective use of the whip to wrap around the tree limb.
I always thought the whip is less of a weapon and more of a tool . Similar to say a pitchfork or shovel etc , yeah it could be used as weapon and might in very slim ideolic conditions perform well . But at the end of the day it's not an effective weapon for most conditions and situations .
I am always more impressed by response videos that address the issue rather than the person. Just the simple fact that you spoke about whips rather than about Shad, et al, is commendable in this day and age. Further, I thought you made some very valid points and supported your points effectively. Thank you.
One question, what about the overbearing techniques where whip users score take downs against their opponent? I'm always hesitant to call it a "grappling" technique because the whip doesn't seem to hold on for any length of time, at least in my limited experience. When wrapped around an ankle or lower leg, it will certainly hold on long enough to pull the leg out from under the opponent however. Once again, that is in my limited experience. I've used this technique once in a desperate situation and it worked. Was my experience a one-off situation or are whips capable of doing such things reliably?
I enjoyed both vids. Both experts gave logical concessions to both yes and no evaluations of whether a whip is a good weapon. This is how a debate should go and is the way to make better and advance the topic at hand. I'll check out more of your content. I like your style and the way you deliver some of your lines in a dead-pan tine.
I make whips, and yeah basically everything you said was beyond true! Thanks for this video to teach others, and I learned a few things myself!
Very nice nerdy response vid! Props for giving credit to your teacher. Also, sick B-rolls at the end there...
Hey Derek, you should take the spotlight and make a video about the latest episode (6) of Star Wars: The Acolyte. There is a lot of discussion going on about the effectiveness of whips in general and lightsaber whips in particular regarding a whip as a weapon in a fight.
i am enjoying your video, when they talked about dual wielding with a whip I had a fun thought that a spiked targe (round shield) paired with a whip would be interesting.
I appreciate this analysis. I am glad that Shad and his boys did right by your expertise. I have more appreciation for the whip because of both of your videos.
This is a very nice, sophisticated, calm and respectful response videos.
One of the best I have ever seen on youtube. Thank you.
Thanks. Good to hear an expert's take on Shad's video.
Good video, thanks for making it, I saw Shads video and it’s good to see the reaction of someone who is actually more knowledgeable about the whip.
You make a lot of good points however you also make a lot of ‘errors’ for instance a sword actually would be an effective weapon in a tunnel, especially if the user thrust with it ,but also some swords are sword like the Gladius. Compared to an Axe, knife and spear to some degree, mace, and a whip, a sword will still work really well.
The problem with the whip and the reason it isn’t an effective weapon is that it does actually need space, more so than other weapons, plus it can be entangled and grabbed as Shad demonstrated, just saying “it can happen to other weapons” isn’t a good defence, axes don’t get stuck in shields often and no one is grabbing the blade part of a sword in a dual. Even with gloves you’d be keeping your distance or parrying with your own sword instead of trying to grab the sword. A whip would be tempting to try an grab as demonstrated.
On the same note, yes accidents happen but no one is stabbing themselves with swords or axes, they certainly are cutting every part of their body especially their eyes.
The main problem with whips is that they aren’t a good versatile weapon. yes armour stops a lot of weapons but even swords can get through certain types or just break the bones underneath or bruise them. Even a fully plated knight isn’t going to let himself get hit by an axe or sword, as physical weapons that are rigid they can keep enemies back and apply other means of stopping an attacker, a whip being flexible can’t keep an opponent back, especially after they get whipped once and the armour stops the pain, the opponent will know that they have nothing to fear.
Amazing video and explanations, shad should really see this and maybe invite you over as an more exoerienced user for better comparision.
5:19 in this bit, you are talking about the whip getting caught on the environment. They were attempting to test if the whip can be used (as seen in India Jones) to grab and swing from an object
Greetings from Croatia !!!! Great video Man.
In 5:20 mark He is trying to grab onto the branch with the whip, and not that the branch is gets in the way.
Pozdrav brate! Represent 🇭🇷
@@croatianwarmaster7872 poz
Hey Taylor first off you've really open me up to the idea of a whip as a discipline so bravo good sir. If I made sound a little ignorant it's almost like the whip (outside of styles) is a weapon that is more or less limited by how the user can figure out every way to make it offensive.
Now I have an idea that I'm very curious about when it comes to vs armor like chain or plate. What about have a metal cap or even a stud at the bottom end of the handle when using it like nunchuk? maybe something is like a quick attachment/detachment so you could control the increased risk it would pose to the user?
Great video bro, I'm subbing because of how well you have shown that you clearly know what you are talking about.
I think one thing that Shad and his team neglected to state but it became quite obvious in their analysis was "is this a lethal weapon" and that answer is.... no, an untrained person is not going to kill someone with a 10' leather bullwhip. Right tool for the job and all. The whip can blind, maim, and be I think a more defensive rather than offensive weapon. I think that the whip can be used to keep an attacker at a distance, can disable an attacker and can injure an attacker. But can it kill someone by striking them in an armored chest? No.
I mentioned how I got into whips for a brief period on Shad's channel. I got a bull whip cheap from a bloke at work and tried to pracice. I was off work sick with an eye injury and took it onto the grass near my house and started practicing. It was going great guns then I managed to pull it back and got the tip right on my eye. Fortunately I weat glasses and I was aware eye pretection was sensible so it was more embarissing than painful. I made the mistake of telling my mother and she told my brother and I never heard the end of it. People singing 'Whip crack away' when I walked in a room.
I never made much of it as it was difficulkt to practice, I really didn't want people seeing me and it was too long for indoors.
What a seriously good video! Got the impression that you were a tad irritated at some of their conclusions, and, yeah, I get it. I’m a software engineer who was rolling his eyes at the hype around the “meta verse”, so I know the feeling. But FANTASTIC VIDEO, I learned a lot!!!
A great video. I love the use of clips from both Shad's video and the various masters you referred to. Well scripted and on point answer too.
Also, the ending made me chuckle. :D
This was very well made. A+ to you.
ty you sir, as a fan of whips in most games i love seeing videos explaining their use irl, not great at them myself tho
Well done response. Informative and fairly entertaining with nice placement of the video inserts.
I loved the flare at the end of the video.
I have not seen the Shadiversity video, but I feel my question would have been answered in this video along with all the others things that were answered.
What about the whip as a tool to entangle and set off balance (like entangling lower leg, close to the foot, to pull and make opponent fall)?
Is that very viable, because usually an opponent off balance is easier to attack and hit.
So, one question that i feel is sort of unanswered is the whips ability to trip and disarm, that's generally its purpose in TTRPGs. Would it be feasible to snag a foot ot a sword?
As a shad-fan I thank you for keeping it respectful👍
I agree with others that I hope Shad sees this. His testing frustrated me when I saw his video, especially since we come from Australia where stock whips are still a common enough tool. It might be interesting if Shad could give you a list of tasks or criteria the whip would have to meet in order to be an effective weapon. Then someone with more experience like you could give him the results.
You addressed all the problems I saw in his video.
And I am not a whip's master like you.
Well done.
Nice video. ❤
As in Archery the modern non practitioner discounts the pinpoint accuracy of placement for a practitioner of the whip (or indeed bow). Accuracy is a force multiplier with numerous benefits. While a whip may at first seem somewhat ineffectual against armored opponents you can not underestimate its ability to force a reflex-reaction in an opponent which is easily exploited. There are practical concerns the layman could not readily appreciate.
I once bought a wushu chain whip on a whim, and very quickly realized it posed a much greater danger to me than to any opponent. Huge respect to those who have the bravery to build such skills!
This is a very well put together and very respectful video as well as super super informative I just recently got a bullwhip and I am not very good at it yet so I think I'll be checking this channel that little bit more thank you
Greetings Taylor. I must ask if you see anything about the "rebenque" a short whip used in South America that was used as a weapon in "Esgrima Criolla". But mainly it was an expensive tool for horsemen.
Oooh, good points! I hope this discussion goes further because you brought up some very interesting points with the versatility 😮
Love it when someone replies to one of Shad's videos, especially someone with a good knowledge about the subject. It also means a reply from shad an more knowledge!
Kyle Hill has a great video on chain whips. They're incredibly powerful but very dangerous for the user.
Along with risking your shoulder...
Ah, Shad and with his old silly shenanigans. He said that nunchuks is stupid and start swinging it like a staff. You can't even swing a sword the same way you swing the staff, even more you can't swing any rope/chain based weapons (nunchuks, kusarigama, flail, rope dart, whip) like a staff.
Even whip itself has so different techniques than other rope/chain based weapons.
Hi. Is there much difference in the loudness of the crack with a 6ft. Whip compared to an 8ft. ???
th-cam.com/video/YVTlUSERe7E/w-d-xo.htmlsi=ezHyTh5cazYEfcXs
@@taylor.whips1 Thank you 👍
I'd just love for you to go to shadiversity and demonstrate whip usage properly and determine how efective a whip really is! great video
Okay at 5:16 they are trying to test the whip grabbing onto something like in Indiana Jones movies where he uses the whip to swing across gaps
How well can you "whip yourself into shape" with whips? Like in terms of endurance, stamina, controle, strength etc or would you have to look for a diffirent regimen in those regards?
A very important point at 6:30ish of catching the whip is that the defender has a ton of armor and padding. If the defender does not have gloves or super padding, grabbing the whip is just as dangerous as grabbing a sword. Grabbing an object that can cause incredible pain to your hand which is not something you will reasonably want to do.
From what i know from whips (using wet towels haha) Only a small area is actually dangerous when whipping, so it'd be pretty difficult to reliably hit someone with the sweet spot let alone specific areas like the eyes.
You'd essentially have to time where the opponent would be ahead of time if they rush at you
Of all the places I've hit myself, the one that hurt the most was when I did a overhead with my chain whip, and got the angle wrong and brought the chain right into my fingertips.....I felt that one for a couple of hours.
Very well constructed argument. I actually learned a lot from this vid.
I am fairly certain that if you know a great whipper in Australia and help set it up, that Shad and gang would be more than willing to revisit this ^_^
I for one would love to see it!
Great video. At a Sayok Kali seminar in Tampa I once saw and heard a whip used indoors and it would blow your eardrums out! So fast and definitely didn’t wanna be hit by that!
Thanks for the video. It's quite a nice expansion to the Shadivesity video.
So if the whip was used in a a combat scenario, would you first use the popper to stun and use the handle to finish them off? The whip can be used as a baton or flail(7:08).
How you block with it?
Like if we take hard one-to-one combat with a quatrestaff vs whip, how you use it?
This is not attacking. This is real question.
Where would you recommend someone get started? I'm a life long martial artist and this is a subject I'd enjoy trying.
Check out Anthony De Longis’ page. He has a lot of courses on how to use whips, and there is no better teacher than he. Adam Winrich also has a great number of videos on TH-cam that teach whip use.
buymeacoffee.com/anthonydelongis/extras
@@taylor.whips1 Thanks!
I am very glad Shad made his video, because without it, I would've never learned that whip experts exist, and that the whip is a lot more interesting of a weapon then I first thought.
This was a very interesting video
Mate, if you’re gonna keep making vids like these in the future….. I’m definitely gonna stay subbed :D
Okay, so a few things. I saw Shads video a while a go and just saw this response, so kudos for responding and setting the record straight on some of the specifics. It is interesting to hear the take from someone more educated on soft weapons, and whips specifically. I hate soft weapons myself. Can't stand em. They hate me too. Two left feet and a need for an ice pack if I'm not wearing a cup any time I try to practice, level of hate and rage. =P
That said. You don't slash with a spear. You thrust. You "can" slice with it, but a spear is a predominantly thrusting weapon with an emphasis on threat range and zone control. Terrible examples used to try and argue weapon restrictions/usage vs environment. Honestly the environmental sizing a whip needs is an issue with most soft weapons that "most" hard weapons don't have. The exception are hard weapons with no thrust capacity, which would generally be bludgeon weapons or extremely curved cutters. Pretty much everything else is going to be usable within a confined area, assuming the confinement allows for movement in at least 1 axis of freedom, including something like a tunnel/hallway. Not all hard weapons will perform equally well, but all will perform better than a whip in such an environment.
Also, Shad did emphasize that none of his group were remotely competent with whips and it was just for proof of concept. His general analysis still stands fairly accurate in his assessment. Unless the whip wielder(must resist random alliteration =P) has mastered their weapon, and is against an inexperienced newbie... the whip just doesn't have the threat of lethality needed for a good primary. Can it cut skin and possibly do lethal/debilitating damage with a good shot? Sure. An eye, wrist, or throat that gets popped hard enough to tear it up could be a really crippling strike..... however that is reliant on a strike being not only landed on a specifically vulnerable location, but the strike landing with a very specific part of the weapon at a very specific point of the travel.
It can do it, and a master can land those far more frequently... but I'll step into a ring with a master whip user, if I get armor and a sword/spear, well before l will try and use a soft weapon against a new swordsman. I will likely get injured by the whip. I'm likely dead from the swordsman. That's the main point that was made.
Also, while a good video for general content addressed, you need to work on camera personality. For half the video you came across as enthusiastic as Plank from Ed, Eddie, and Eddy. If you are passionate about the art, show it. Feel free to respond to Shad and say "No, that's stupid and here's why!", just follow it up with a good reasoning and examples and make sure it is... polite to the person if not the video or opinion. If you see them doing something wrong. Laugh. Explain why/how they're doing it wrong, and the impact it can have on their impact, and then move along.
I'm honestly not sure if you repeated the same point 3-4 times, or if I just misunderstood, but I also chalk that up to the near-monotone and lack of structure. Pretty sure a lot of that might be due to nervousness and possibly bring camera shy when dumping on Shad/a much larger channel.
Don't be nervous to call Shad out respectfully. He has stated plenty of times that he is fine being corrected and welcomes it, and his community is the least rabid group I've seen on youtube over critique.
Here's to hoping this criticism is received in the spirit it is meant, and that it helps you grow. Best of luck on future videos! Hopefully this response will slowly pull the HEMA crowd and you grow from having the balls to call out a bigger channel respectfully!
Just realize how negative my comment might have come across. Over all, good video. My comment was critique of what could be improved for a smaller channel. I did watch the whole thing because it was genuinely interesting. When you weren't stalling while picking words, you definitely showed the enthusiasm for the art.
I am also, as stated, terrible with soft weapons... so I can only really add critique. Can't speak to validity of your information, aside from it sounds about right, or add to anything there. Once more, best of luck in growing!
Hmmm.. this makes me wonder how possible or effective it would be to make a "combat whip"?
Would it be possible to add some kind of "mace head" on the base of a whip handle after finding a balance point between weight of material used?
And would it still be heavy enough to be an effective mace?
Old leather whips had a lead counter weight on the bottom knot, you can do that and have a 1-1/2 foot handle, that would be okay, you can swap the end knot with a straight up mace head and be good.
There are 2 handed whips that are more less a querterstaff with a whip at the end too.