After 7 years of 3d printing I have learned the hard way, only open source / rep rap and NO cloud dependencies. Then lets also consider that country A is not going to allow country B's internet traffic anymore. The way the world is moving at the moment you really want to depend on a server in China? Nope. Open source / rep rap only for me.
This cloud-based closed system is the main reason that I spent the money to build a RatRig printer instead of buying a Bambu labs printer. I want to use my network, my slicer, and my hardware. Not someone else's who can change it or get rid of it because of a boardroom conversation or golf course business deal.
Bambu just rolled out fully features offline printing just today actually. By fully features i mean camera, remote SD card content management, object exclusions and all. You don't need clouds for any of its features now.
@@QuangNguyen-wb5kd yeah but the point is that could change. Ulimaker had everything offline and free for a while before making it a paid subscription. And I am assuming firmware updates and such are still online?
@@Unscientificallyyeah but the code for enabling most features is open source through their slicer, so you can always have a copy of the known work version. I managed to trick my x1 to think my pc is the server and try to download firmware from there with MQTT and home assistant. The overall concern for cloud printing is there but all the work around is already in place for Bambu lab printers.
@@QuangNguyen-wb5kd I hadn't heard about object exclusions. By just rolled out, when was this released? I'm trying to find info but not seeing anything.
I despise cloud services because you don't ensure they won't shut down and they will start to enforce subscription services and will make you dependent on using this specific cloud app even if it's to make it easier and when it goes under you will not be able to use the printer because the cloud services are down and it's just another sure way for them to trap you into their eco system and get as much money as they can from you
Yeah. For example with creality's track record, I wouldn't be surprised if the k1 gets phased out and forgotten in a few months. If they do shut down then your kinda screwed. Also companies can make free features now a paid subscription if its cloud based, like ultimaker has done in the past.
Or they EoL a product line to get to to buy the new product. Usually there’s nothing wrong with the thing aside from age. Google is also notorious for killing of products for random reasons.
And it's totally unnecessary, even if you do want the advantages of cloud connection (like remote access). OctoPrint can easily be set up for remote access. Or it can connect to Home Assistant if you already have that configured for remote access and you want basic monitoring (picking files and starting print jobs isn't always that useful anyway...)
The mobile industry are the ones to blame for this greedy price gouging system. The App Store is a huge one in that concept. This is why I don’t purchase any of the products that support cloud wall subscription services. Those games that people play on their mobile phones, I’m going to take you all on a little trip with this; First to get going; 1. Your own internet service, respectively between $180.00 - 200.00 a month. Now for mobile phone =,around $100.00 - 200.00 depending on the type of service you have and the options. And now your 3d printer (s) The cost of your printer + options + upgrades to hardware. Filaments cost Electricity A place to setup all of this. ( air filter action for those filaments that need that so you don’t kill your self and family and pets ). And those costs are just the start before you get into cloud based subscription services. 😢😢😢😮😮😮 👍
Along the same lines as the "servers shutting down for games because the game gets too old," there's nothing saying Bambu for example will keep functionally for the X1 and P1P once they're old. Once there's an "X2" or "X3," and a "P2P" or "P3P" who's to say that Bambu won't disable functionally of their older printers, either because they're "too old," or to encourage users to purchase a new one
Yes there is as these printers work with out being connected to the cloud. So even if Bambu stops supporting it that doesn't mean it will not print. Besides if there is a big enough market for it people will design or make a business out of creating spare parts just like they have done for the car industry. But your complaint about Bambu can be applied to nearly every tool in the DIY space. Say the KLipper developers decide they are done unless there is someone willing to pick up that project and continue it will die just like anything else. Proprietary or closed source they both have the same outcome one is just easier to pick up and run with than the other, but if the market truly exist both can be done.
@@mekko1413I completely agree. I was simply saying that "getting too old" could eventually make Bambu remove compatibility for cloud services for those printers in 5-10 years. I'm very glad that these printers still have SD support. I was simply mentioning how getting attached to using the cloud with your P1P might be a bad idea in the long term, when the P1P becomes ancient history. I'm aware that the printer will still print without the cloud.
For me it's simple: if the printer cannot provide all of its functionality on my local network through wifi, I'm not interested. I wouldn't mind if it defaulted to cloud but having to use an sd card as a fallback is a no go. Not being able to use my own choice of slicer is another big reason I'm not interested.
Bambu lab just released new slicer version, enable camera in lan mode, object exclusions, starts print on sd card from slicer, persistent calibrations, all worked on lan.
cloud service is only useful if its OPTIONAL. if it REQUIRES cloud service, or internet connectivity to do basic functions. it should be avoided at almost any cost.
Creality isn't the first to encourage users to move to a subscription to get an "enhanced" version of the app. It was only a couple of years ago that ChituSystem made boards that required signed sliced files that kept other slicers, unless they used an official SDK. The SDK only came about after the outcry was much larger than probably expected. ( I just came across a video from Uncle Jessy a month ago that ChituSystem that the latest boards, like on the Saturn 3 Ultra WiFi, that allow the user to send a job to the printer wirelessly requires the user to use Chitubox software. And supposedly, as of a month ago the Chitubox app and SDK crash on Macs with the Apple M1 or M2 processors.)
I think having a slicer built into a cloud site (like Thingiverse, Thangs or Printables) would be useful for mobile phones. A 3D printer you have on standby could be sent the resulting g code (via Octoprint or similar) and start the print.
As I design my own models (and have had issues with past non-3D printed designs being "appropriated" without credit), I haven't used any cloud-based services with my printers.
I find the Bambu cloud convenient and so I use it - but part of that is knowing I get about 80% of the functionality in LAN-only, so if I want to disconnect, I can. I do think this is a better video than the similarly-themed video NathanBuildsRobots just dropped. Here, you're talking about generalities and highlighting concepts people should know so they can make informed decisions. The other video is a read-through of Bambu's privacy policy - on the face of it a useful thing but in practice he skipped over many important sentences that significantly changed the meaning of some paragraphs; failed to research the context (ie, privacy law) and so complained of "missing details," many of which should never be in a privacy agreement because they're defined by the law; and in general failed to appreciate that a privacy is a legal document and it needs to be read while thinking like a lawyer. As a law-profession-adjacent individual, that was really annoying, and in my opinion all that video is doing is creating unfounded panic.
Even your local network can get hacked... and data drop outs can occur during file transfers. Remember you have a dumb machine attached to the end of your system. I still use SD cards for printing. For some prints I still dry run the file to make sure it looks like it's working properly, just a hangover from using industrial CNC,s. As for the cloud forget it.
Thanks for putting it all together into an informative and easy to follow video. I would never purchase a printer that streamed the sliced file from the cloud. I use Octoprint on my local network so I can monitor them from another room in my house but have not connected it to the cloud for remote monitoring. That would be a great feature but I worry about the security risk.
The only thing I am afraid of is that companies start subscription models to use their cloud services. Its just super common nowadays that you just need a subscription for everything. So annoying.
Exactly, this trend is everywhere, subscriptions and marketing is the name of the game lately and is getting more and more difficult to avoid it because almost every company is starting to implement that model. To the point that a good marketing for a company would be to sell products and services free of subscription and/or data gathering from their part to work as intended. If I were Prusa marketing team I would make a point that once you buy the printer is yours and fully functional without the need of any cloud or anything (and I would have a cloud service only if you want it, as a plan b that you could live without).
I would never have a cloud based printer for all the reasons you touched on. I have a PiHole on my network that is a fantastic tool for guarding privacy.
It's almost impossible to avoid cloud services in our daily life but we can avoid them as much as possible - meaning, don't buy a 3D printer that explicitly requires the use of cloud-based printing. I'd also maybe go as far as to say that you shouldn't buy one that offers it as a convenience, as the only thing standing between you and forced cloud printing is a firmware update. Would everyone install said update once word got out? Maybe not. Wouldn't enterprising community members find a way to roll back updates or jailbreak the printer after such an update? Probably. But at that point, you'll probably be at the very least banned from buying spare/replacement parts or getting official service. Maybe worse.
yeah sun setting servers is the big issue for me, I've started selfhosting a bunch of stuff just so I have control over everything, using wireguard as a vpn to remotely connect me to my networks works pretty well and was quite easy to setup
I just have a spare PC monitoring all my self-setup stuff so I can use a program like parsec to remote into it and do my stuff. it's not the most bandwidth efficient job but it does what it needs to with reasonable difficulty
Been burned too much by Cloud stuff. $200 Canary cameras that had features revoked and turned into paperweights if you don't pay monthly. Ring doorbells doing the same thing if you don't subscribe. Went with HomeAssistant and Frigate NVR, even got my Roomba running with ha-rest980 so it's not dependent on the cloud so the connection could be severed. If you can't self-host, at the end of the day you don't really own the product. Next project is Obico for local printer AI failure detection which should be fun!
In a video (a few years ago) you said you used the paid-for On-Shape platform because the free to use one made your models available to others. That stuck in my mind and I never name models so there can be interpreted from the name. Thanks Michael.
lol its no worse than the general populations home networks. Besides cloud just means hosted elsewhere. None of the tools or this 3d printing community would exist without cloud computing.
@@mekko1413 Are you sure you are not confusing cloud services (that can include storage yes), with a simple internet connection? For instance - A website where you can download files, is explicitly not a cloud service. It has nothing to do with cloud services as a concept. A cloud service is a model that stores your personal data (being a company or a single user) on a server that's managed by the company that delivers that cloud service (like storage). Public accessible internet space is NOT a cloud service!
Just my own experience here. I got the Creality Wifi box and camera for my Ender 3 S1 Plus about 2 months ago. I thought it would make things easier with the features, e.g. timelapse, video recording, cloud printing and notifications and with a recent update AI spaghetti detection. I use 3 different printers and use prusaslicer through Repetier Server to manage them all and its easy to set up, easy to use but it doesn't have the advanced modern features. I wanted something that was plug and play, ready out of the box with little configuration but its not been as advertised at all. The first problem was the notifications, when you subscribe to "System Message" which sends print updates you automatically get badge notifications and other stuff thats completely superfluous. Its possible to use prusa slicer or another 3rd party slicer but once you do its not a streamlined workflow and takes some messing around to get it to work. Local printing works, but again only by mapping the FTP location of the CrealityBox and uploading to it and then using the Creality Cloud app. But none of the additional features work (timelapse, video recording, AI Spaghetti detection or filament runout). Timelapse only seems to work on items that are downloaded from Creality Cloud or sliced with the online slicer. The online slicer is impossible to use on an app on the phone and in the desktop browser version, if the orientation of the model isn't flat to the bed its incredibly difficult to lay flat, which means there are almost always supports or a raft. Filament runout detection doesnt appear to stop the printer when its triggered, when printing from any prints except via SD Card directly on the printer and when the flag is triggered every print after that requires an acknowledgement that there is filament in the sensor even when its definitely there. It's plagued with bugs and functions that simply don't work. My experience of Creality Cloud is seriously wanting and while the box itself seems like its a good deal, I think next time I'll buy a raspberry pi or other SBC and install octoprint, its probably less hassle and work overall.
@@TeachingTech Thanks, I'm definitely thinking that's the way to go. Personally I'd like to see a hybrid system, something that works locally but has cloud connectivity for monitoring or kicking off the prints while not on the home network, that is slicer agnostic and a few of the newer features too. But I can't have my cake and eat it too (unless I bake it myself)!
I am not overly concerned about IP being stolen. I think they would have easier ways of seeing my designs and getting someone to draw in CAD. The backdoor access to my LAN is a bigger concern. I save all my files locally as a precaution to their system going down or being closed. The convenience of no octoprint etc and the inbuilt slicer makes my workflow very easy. OK, ease might mean risk but I think it is manageable.
I can basically do all of the cloud stuff with OctoApp and a few plugins for OctoPi. I suppose I could set up OctoEverywhere to allow me to access it outside of the house, but I don't print away from home.
There are NO practical advantages of the cloud. The idea of needing the cloud to do any core functionality (like printing to begin with or spaghetti detection) means to me they shipped cheaper hardware to offload core functionality to a service the manufacturer has no incentive to maintain unless they "monetize" the cloud with subscription costs, intrusive ads, or by invading our privacy to collect data. Maybe I'm not the right use case, but I can't imagine needing to "remote print" outside my WiFi range. Thanks for the heads up about "Creality Cloud" - while I don't have any Creality printers or equipment currently, the fact they would even try this gets them squarely on my "don't buy" list.
Ive seen one aspect thawt wasnt covered here being that these printers are encrypting info they send back to teh servers, but nowhere are you able to verify what they are sending. This obviously creates an issue when connected to your local network with other more sensitive devices. The human element still exists in these since someone needs to sift thru any info obtained, but people should still be worried that these printers could be sending more than they say they are and there is no way to check it as far as I know.
I use a VPN back to home in the unlikely event that I need to mess with my printer. My particular gateway makes it easy to set up a VPN correctly and securely. I’m wary of exposing equipment online. Security on devices are questionable at best since vendors don’t seem to give it any thought. That’s assuming they even know how to in the first place. I’ve also been burned a plenty of times by vendors going away or EOLing products for reasons (Google I’m looking in your direction). It helps if the device allows local access for OpenHAB or Home Assistant control.
I am lazy. 3D Printing is a hobby of mine that I don't have time to be thoroughly invested in. So some of these might have been covered already by other TH-camrs and I just don't know about them. With these newer, more "professional" 3D Printers, they are starting to think more like businesses and less like open-source hobbyists. Below are some potential issues I see going forth with this change in ideology. 1) Has anyone gone through the terms of service of these newer 3d Printers and seen more "expensive lawyer speak" in them? 2) Do they contain provisions that anything that gets uploaded through them can be used by them or their affiliates? 3) What trademark rights do you have on what you design and print according to the Terms of Service? 4) What rights do you give them to use the data with, when you agree to the Teams of Service? 5) Does modifying parts of the printer or software automatically void all of your warranty and online support? This was just off the top of my head.
I'm concerned about privacy (webcam images and uploaded models for instance) and about cloud service reliability (if it goes down do i loose some of the features?). So i'm pretty happy with my no-cloud 3d printer together with a raspberry Octoprint.
Bambu is definitely feeling the strain on their cloud service. Sometimes it takes 10 - 20 seconds for the printer video feed to start playing after tapping the play button in the Bambu Handy app.
And the risk is that a bean counter in Bambu will come up with the idea that if you pay them some extra dollars you can go to the top of the queue. Then before you know it everyone has to pay per print ... No thanks!
@@martinathome296 Bambu's cloud is entirely optional. It's only needed for a handful of connected features, like monitoring prints with a phone. The printer works perfectly when disconnected from the internet completely.
If I bought a K1 or Bambu printer, I think I'd be looking for a way to "root" it, and get complete local control back, scraping off all of the cloud stuff. The use case for remote print starting is just too limited in my opinion. Usually my printer would not be in a state where it's ready to print. Now if you could get the print off the bed, and teleport it to where I am, that's another story. It's much more efficient to just haul the printer with me to the remote location, I think. Even monitoring is dubious, and a lot of that can be done with a separate web cam anyway. And most people are aware of the danger with cloud-based web cams, so it's not hidden. I'm getting to the point where I think the government needs to crack down on what kind of data that companies can legitmately snarf up from users. The EU has GDPR, and I think it ought to affect cloud-based 3D printers as well. I'm hoping someday the U.S. will enact similar legislation.
Cloud service can be not effective in some region on my country with poor internet connection so we still use traditional method for 3d printing. Since Raspberry Pi too pricey, we use Android TV Box as Octoprint and Klipper because it very cheap.
As someone with an unreliable Internet connection, with data caps on top of that, I avoid cloud-only solutions. On top of that, who's paying for the cloud servers? Any cloud service MUST go to a subscription model to pay for it. If you're not paying for the service, who is?
I do have access to my 3D printer / OctoPrint via CloudFlare tunnel. I configured in such a way that ONLY me have access to it. I can access from home with no problem using domain as it knows that i am using home network (M ISP Public IP address whitelisted) and if i am accessing from outside home network it uses 2FA, email gets sent with temp PIN number valid for 30 min.
I think one other possibility aside from theft of models that are sent to the printer via the cloud is blocking models that run afoul of some rule. It's irritating that scanners in the US will refuse to return the scan if it detects it just scanned money. It would be very irritating if it were determined that a model couldn't be printed for some reason, law, whatever. Although this could be done locally on the printer (like how it's locally done with the scanners), doing it in the cloud could allow for immediate updates to the list of banned models as well as analyzing meshes for similarity to banned models.
my first 3D printer was a New Matter printer. Great little first printer but everything was in the cloud. When the company went away they showed how to use a connected computer to still use the printer but really the experience was horrible and killed the printer. I love the Bambu but wish it wasn't reliant on the cloud.
Government may mandate cloud 3D printing providers to scan for prints of objects that are illegal (e.g. 3d printed guns). This would be done by an algorithm that can lead to false positives (for example, printing an object that would have the same file name as a gun part).It's not so hard to imagine police knocking on your door because of a print you started, and you having to explain yourself to police, who don't really know much about 3D printing and may be trigger happy.
They were saying a few months ago that Cura released an update that was supposed to recognize parts and such. I think there was a French company that did the same too. That's just what i need, my printer to get my dog shot..
@Teaching Tech One major aspect you haven't touched on, and which I haven't seen many people talk about: malware! Every IT security expert will tell you that such connected devices are a prime means to spread malware. IoT and other connected devices, like such printers, are usually VERY POORLY protected, if at all(!), and are a prime spread vector for malware to propagate thru (local) networks. Malware being spread via IoT devices is nothing new and has already happened a lot.
I'm anti cloud. I've spent the last two years moving most of my life from the cloud. Even my home automation stuff is controlled by me and not cloud connected/dependent.
I think there is something that gets overlooked by those companies: the 3D printing community is still full of tinkerers and even an engineer here and there. If their products suck too hard, we will just do it ourselves. And it also brings us back to Prusa, who have added local connectivity into their Mk4 but no other cloud nonsense. And I think they will never be mad enough to do so, unless there is no other way technologically. Spagetti detection machine learning can require that cloud thing, but it should be an optional feature, not an always on system. That even sucks in video games, but as a normal customer I can't really do anything against that
The thing I've most worried about, partly due to the descriptions in the OctoPrint documentation, is someone taking control of my printer, overheating it or otherwise damaging it and/or my house. I'd probably take the step of manually uploading anything that I would consider sensitive, so that it couldn't be copied even if they have rooms full of people watching the normal uploads.
So many companies go bust. If a printer cannot get a file to print without the cloud servers, as you said, it would be useless. Your present cloud based printers have a local option, but I wonder how long this will last until the companies deem they need to save the money of installing local devices. I am looking to add wifi to my printer, but it will be only on my local network, no cloud services thank you.
I had a peek at Creality Cloud when it launched and was not impressed, stolen models were my main concern but now my concern would be security and my data, if you are not paying for a product then you are the product
I was strongly considering upgrading my Ender to the x1 Carbon.... I was unaware of the cloud issue. Is there anyway to limit wireless interaction with the printer to your LAN? Is the only option USB / SD Card? This really does give me pause. Love the content.. thank you.
And once you get to the local network (assuming it's connected, as I'd expect), if you speak TCP/IP, you're anywhere the 'net is.OctoPi speaks TCP/IP like a native:)
Good video and glad this topic is being highlighted. I don't agree with the assumption that you don't think someone else can work out your model Intent. That seems quite nieve that other engineers aren't smart enough. Also feel you missed the point around companies and their employees using these type of printers for R&D and proprietary development. Being that bambu allows third parties to access your data and it wouldnt be hard to know where these files are coming from and by who, your now allowing sensitive development work to be accessed by third parties who can easily be government, defense, authroities, even rival companies
I hear ya and I agree, but after years of fiddling with these awful open source printers it's really nice to have something that just works right out of the gate. Remote printing isn't that big of a selling point or an issue in my mind, and I think as time goes on we will see better alternatives for remote printing over LAN. I don't get ads with Bambu, but Creality is an awful company with awful products so seeing their "flagship" have ads is unsurprising, albeit frustrating.
I would be concerned of a bad actor gaining access to a cloud based printer that has poorly designed printer firmware security and potentially cause physical damage by turning the hot end beyond its thermal limits and cause a fire for example. For a safety standpoint unless I'm home I don't print so cloud connectivity is not something I would ever use. I don't like cloud stuff to begin with. In fact I wasn't using TH-cam's servers to watch your video as it was already in my local media server so I can watch it when I want, even if my internet goes down.
You can't send a print to a bambulab printer without going through the cloud? That would be a deal breaker for me. I'm also now reading that while Bambu Studio slicer is open source, the network plugin is closed source. It looks like I'm going to have to buckle up and dump a full work week into building an open source klipper printer.
You can use LAN mode on the printer to turn off cloud features and still print wirelessly. With cloud enabled you can still send directly to the printer by using Send instead of Print in the slicer, or using ftp, or using SD card.
@@technicallyreal Good to know, however, with the closed source nature of Bambu Studio networking, I'd need to inspect the network traffic to be sure my files still aren't being uploaded to their servers even in LAN mode. This is a regrettable choice they've made in my opinion. I'll have to stick to PrusaSlicer and Klipper.
I totally agree, and I even know it's possible with relatively little cloud interaction, but how many people have network engineers sitting at home? I'm a tech guy and Im too lazy to set up wiregaurs properly (I should get on it). Its a matter of how much energy you have to expend. Basically until it becomes easy, and not tech guy """easy""" (this is in reference to the type of people who think installing Gentoo is fun), it's somewhat unreasonable to expect people to self host. In concept though I personally would love a world of self hosted apps with global reach with a simple wiregaurs VPN setup and a domain name.
I think the bigger concern would be intellectual property. Say you are working to develop something and sending files for prototypes. That information could be used to give competitors any idea of what you are working on.
Corporations grading data and ignoring individual privacy has gotten out of control. A good example is IOT controlled lightbulbs that send location info and commands to the cloud, effectively tracking the owners behaviour. Knowing location and time patterns would be very useful to burglars, etc. I'd never keep a device that does not operate without the cloud. Manufactures should need to disclose data it receives, so it's inline with the focus of it's business, not just collected and sold. All the points in this video are excellent and they're likely to stand the test of time (probably with a few additions in future).
Hi from Will and Mr Data :):] I paused at 11.40 Things licensed has vanished in past and then found used at parent host, im going to type in my opinion for safety but i see. Things have been taken by many and varied angles over long time frames by what i call sharks. Based on my long term experience from being in this sector since before thingiverse existed. There appear sharks operating at many areas where things can be taken from newbs. Everything from newbs showing and giving away designs, to the sites and services that have had varying levels of issues over time. Im dancing because to type it more directly might not be in my best interest. But you can see i have experienced many such similar issues going on, lost things to sharks IN MANY layers. So yes caution is totally required. Wishing you nice success, be well.
Cloud connectivity is a big "nope" from me. If I can't use all the features of a device i bought and paid for *completely offline* and without any features paywalled behind an additional subscription, then I don''t want it.
Great video Mike, the Creailty Cloud ads are very annoying, and without paying you cannot print away from your local Network, but as you know we also now live in a danger zone of the hobby becoming regulated and “maybe” on the cloud elements, it should be in some way. If you look at how DJI “standardised” drones will we be seeing a similar pathway. One other thing I can see happening next is the throw away society path where you buy a product it breaks after a while and you just Chuck it and get a new one, no repairing just general consumerism.. watch this space! Anycubics recent attempts at cloud working has been better but let’s be fair we all fear the Chinese server pathways and how can that be regulated inside a communist construct?
This is my biggest guff on my P1P. Yeah it’s nice to send files from my computer to my printer, but going through their cloud services is stupid. Why can’t I just send it over my local network like klipper does. It’s slow as heck for the P1P We’ve talked about it on your Discourse forum. But had to vent again.
You can send it over your local network, but like you said, it's just slow. However, it's actually not any slower over your local network than it is when using normal/cloud mode, it just feels that way because you're forced to watch the progress bar on your PC as file is transferred to the printer's microSD card. In normal/cloud mode you only watch the progress bar as the file is uploaded to the cloud, and then the file is transferred from cloud to the printer's microSD card in a separate step (which you can see from the printer itself, on the LCD). For example.. It may only take 10 seconds in normal/cloud mode, yet take 45 seconds in LAN mode. But in reality it's taking 10+45 seconds in cloud mode, but you're not forced to stare at the progress bar for the 45 second stage (unless you go stand at the printer and watch it happen over there). Almost forgot - the actual reason it's slow is because of the crappy ESP32-powered WiFi. Supposedly much faster on the X1.
@@technicallyreal interesting. I hadn’t tried. I knew you could still use SD card functionality, but it just adds time and feels convoluted. On my other machines I like how easy klipper is. I also don’t believe the P1P has any of the AI spaghetti detections. It was mentioned in the video that “all Bambu printers” come with it. Not trying to nitpick bir worth noting. Unless I’m an idiot and just overlook that feature on mine.. which I suppose is plausible 🥹
@@technicallyreal for some of my bigger prints too, it’s taken over an hour for it to download and unpack the 3mf files. I’ve bitched about it on the discourse before, and the consensus was that the X1 didn’t have the same issues. Which kind of bugs me, because the P1P is more marketed as the X1 without the case, AI and a few bells and whistles. It felt very much that the brass tacks of them were the same
On my side i love using my 3d printer trough usb because the company who made it still sell the lcd screen at 50€. Bought the printer 300€ five years ago and now they are selling it at 479€ with cold bed and no springs. I don't understand those kind of company. For this price you can have a prusa mini with springs / hot bed.
One thing that worries me about cloud services (and the growing popularity of 3d printing in general) is the application of copyright, patent, and trademark law in ways that would kill this hobby. I'm not worried about Disney seeing my model of Grogu and stealing it. I'm worried about them seeing my model of Grogu and suing me for copyright violations. Or BMW noticing that I've uploaded a model for a plastic grill that they sell for $100 and pointing their big corporate lawyers at me, or Thangs, or Thingiverse, or Printables. Cloud printing presents a way for a subpoena or civil suit to "prove" how many prints have been done and how much "damage" (with heavy quotes) to a brand has occurred. Our hobby has been fairly niche for decades, and I'm really glad that it's becoming more mainstream. But this means we're no longer obscure enough for giant corporations (and government agencies) to ignore. I worry that we aren't prepared to fight for our right to model, upload files, and print freely.
fwiw parody has a long history of incredibly strong protection by US law. bmw and disney can throw a fit all they want over my models making fun of them. treble damages for fraudulent copyright lawsuits is a thing.
Exactly this. And it's always a slippery slope for worse things to come. Heck, within a year, I could even see the ATF saying you made a machine gun just because you made a cosplay item that looks like a gun.
@@TMS5100 And in the US those laws protect the coorporations or are just bent till they suit their needs. If you make a product that they can claim hurts their profit then they will sue you to oblivion, does not matter if you disclaim it as a fan-product, if it is completely non-commercial or otherwise.
11:05 For my commercial application all hardware is strictly offline. I do not tolerate even the possibility of an IP leak to "interested parties". You claimed that risk of theft was mitigated due to an overload of data requiring too many people and too much expertise. I'm afraid that isn't so - for example Chinese ops have more than enough labour resources and methods for highlighting "hot property" simply and easily. If you want to build a sustainable business in this space you simply have to keep your systems closed loop.
Privacy info should definitely be a concern, especially when your data is sent to China. To help with issues in shipping, I made the mistake of giving a phone number when ordering from AliExpress. Now I get scam/spam calls in Mandarin.
Here's my take on cloud based slicing providers stealing content: It is highly unlikely they will be stealing from "hobbyist" level users. Instead, they will carefully identify accounts that are likely to produce interesting prototypes. Say... SpaceX, for example, or Nvidia. Big companies like that don't name their models "widget v1", they name them more carefully, including the specific identifiers that are necessary to trace backwards if there is a problem in the prototyping process (this is why many companies use code names during product development). It doesn't matter if someone runs off and sells the design, as you said, it's likely not useful. What really matters is that they got a long look at the internal processes of a company that in some cases may be publicly traded. If you had advanced notice that AMD was building an Nvidia killer, and from observation, you knew the prototyping phase for some plastic parts generally preceded the release by 9 months... you'd be in a pretty sweet spot to make some "unrelated investment choices" now wouldn't you? Monitoring the supply chain of a company is the oldest trick in the book for knowing what kinds of things they are working on. As 3D printing becomes part of the development cycle (and therefore the supply chain), it is a likely place to go to get a "fly on the wall" view. Note, that the *company* itself may not have a policy of monitoring these things, yet that doesn't stop *employees* of said company from doing it and selling the info to tech bloggers/pundits/investors, or frankly just monetizing it themselves. Second point: Some 3D printable items (think firearm components) are legal in some jurisdictions and not legal in others. If you are a US citizen and send a "questionable" print to your home printer while you are vacationing in Australia, is the cloud company bound by the laws of the US, or Australia? It sounds ridiculous until you remember they got Al Capone on tax evasion. If some prosecutor wants to make a name for themselves, this might just be the ticket. In the end, it makes the legality of things just one step fuzzier. If you don't like that scenario, then simply consider this: If the cloud based company is based in Australia, could they reject the printing of components they find objectionable, even if I'm at home sitting next to my printer?
Not one feature including the failure identification needs the cloud. The only thing you need to know is they retain your gcode. Think about where the power is in this dynamic. Nothing you print stays yours.
I think its worth mentioning that at least Bambulab has a Lan mode. I will say though that it doesn't have feature parity as unreasonably Lan mode doesn't allow you to see the video stream, and they've said they would fix this, but haven't gotten around to it. On top of that, there is no way to update over microSD or Lan, which means you can't update without internet connectivity. The worry about theft is very legitimate if you are a large corporation though. Having servers in China and therefore accessible to the Chinese government, makes these printers a no go for companies. Also, my God if the Bambulab app was anything like the creality app I'd throw the printer out and never recommend them again. I also don't recommend the K1 for the same reason. Anyhow, if Bambulab enabled video and allowed you to update in Lan only mode, I would be sufficiently freed of worry that it might be something nefarious planned for the future, because you would have more control and freedom if the company exploded.
4 times I have written a comment at several 3d web sights, and the posts have been emmediately removed. I includeded bambu labs privacy policy link. They don't hide anything about their data collection or the 3rd parties with whom they share your information, including government agencies. I think that is why they are able to offer a good product so affordably. The real money is made selling your data.
In the machining world, the customer owns the drawing/model that you create for them, because they pay for it. Putting their intellectual property on the cloud is highly irresponsible.
You didn't mention a$$hats that will try to connect to your printer through weak cloud security and run large prints or try to override safeguards on the printer.
Paused at 12.25 The thing title is enough often. The access to your info description of thing, your reputation for making expensive things,;your mic your connected device with enough details. May easy be enough to get a thing. Based on all other angles have sharks, and even licensing a proven genuine thing has NOT ensured against theft, See how i learned from the bites. Based on what ive seen experienced and know , if all other waters have sharks operating, cloud would be unlikely not to experience some issues also. In my opinion.
Cloud would be good thing if it is optional and through your secured account specifically. Not pored into a giant bathtub of bits that anyone can access if they know how. Also i think slicing should be done on your computer not on a remote server, and this makes cloud kind of surplus. As for remote connectivity... work should be done on direct secure connection options.
I believe that sending files to print out of home is just marketing. Yeah, there is some times I'd like to do that, but it isn't that useful to me. Only way it makes sense would be a machine with multi-material capability, like the AMS, and having the desired material and color preloaded. For a home printer, the cons are way worse then this function, and for a company printer there will be somebody available to tend to the printer anyway. Spaghetti detection is great, tho. Anyway, I use Klipper on my printer, and I can reach it by remote connecting to a computer in home. Could be done for free, all printer profiles and slicer options are there, ready to use, without any ADs, no (aditional) security concern and no chance of the service just disappearing.
I also am not a fan of cloud services. On the network security side, the printer can and should be put on a VLAN with limited connectivity to required ports and addresses only, No inbound connections.
I am not a fan of being tied to one slicer since the developer can go dark, and cloud servers going dark is also an issue. But freemium 3D printers is the last thing I’d want to hear.
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned a man in the middle attack in all of this. It wouldn't be hard for a malicious actor to change the gcode between the cloud provider and the printer with potentially damaging or even dangerous potential. Also, the most common source of attack traffic on the internet is cloud connected devices. I'll be keeping all of my printers off the internet and on local network only.
Privacy is also a huge thing in the 3D printed firearms community. Imagine an ecosystem where the government implements some kind of monitoring algorithm to see which 3D printer users are printing lowers. Once that happens, its game over for 3D2A which is why RepRap is so important.
You changed my mind, I’m all for the cloud now. I’ve already had other hobbies ruined by idiots doing dumb things with the technology and ruining it for everyone that is using it responsibly.
I don't welcome cloud connected anything. Even without the hazards, I find that cloud connectivity generally doens't work as advertised or takes excessive time to communicate with the controlled equipment via the server. That lag is usually my main issue. Then there's the updates and subscriptions added after the fact. Or, in the case of Fusion360 where an offline version is available, but it's so slow as to be basically unuseable.
I am shocked that noone has mentioned Printrbot by now. Their Simple Metal Pro that was more or less the last gasp of the company as China had utterly destroyed them on price worked only on the cloud. I have one because it had good bones and is not a poorly made printer if you only want to print PLA. I got a good price on it. I will end up converting it to Klipper when I get around to it so I can make it useful again. Cool little printer and an object lesson on why cloud slicing is a really terrible idea. Once the company went out of business, the servers were shut down eventually and the ability to slice on the cloud went out the window.
Printrbot was also the first ting om my mind when I saw this title of this video. Printrbot should have been a lession learned to not use cloud services combined with any 3D printer. As much convenient it is, it is a disaster waiting to happen at some point.
First don't sell any of your old non-connected 3D printers. If something happens, you can use them despite that they're too slow (except if you assembly a DIY 3D printer). I don't trust any cloud services even in my phone with my pictures and videos and ignore all the pop-up messages that tells me to use the cloud to "avoid" lost my data but I use the cable, connect to my PC and keep all safe on an external hard disc drive. Second, It's OK for me to control the printers when I'm outside from work but I (will) never download any STL/Gcode from the cloud because I love the fact to stay at home to check the first layer adhesion and next keep doing my things but checking with the mobile phone. Some gcodes are not suitable for your printer because there's people who upload them an cause your printer to fail. There's tons of options to avoid the cloud. My old 3D printers has a normal security camera from Yi home that's very cheap and I can check how it goes and turn off the printer if something is wrong with a smart plug. I have control of my 3D printer. With the cloud you don't know if somebody, with bad intentions, take your IP address of your printer and make it fail. Please... and finally....Avoid the cloud as best as you can. Just use it to control the 3D printer but not to send/share any file.
The bambu lab x1c can be set for local area network only. You can send the file to your printer via the lan, but you will still need to go to the printer to press start. You will also lose the timelapse feature.
Prints start for me without having to go to the printer. Unless you mean in normal/cloud mode, using the "Send print" option in the slicer. That goes over LAN, but doesn't start the print.
im about done with all the smart devices, irritating as all hell most of the time, i have smart lights and smart plugs and a smart printer. theirs no reason that my google home has to phone googles servers to turn my bedroom lights off, they are both on the same network, we are overcomplicating things that dont need it.
If a hacker sends a print job that is of an illegal object (say, a weapon/firearm) to your printer via a compromised cloud service, how much of a legal trouble would you be in?
the same legal trouble as if a hacker hacked into your body and made you do illicit substances. That is to say that I think that's a particularly contrived scenario.
I prefere octoprint or beeprint ( mks wifi firmware) as cloudflare zero trust tunnel makes it so easy to connect from outside without vpn or port forwarding
Even microsoft shut down the zune activation servers because they weren’t used nuch. But every single person purchasing a digital song has the right to activate it on a new computer for his lifetime. Shame on you, microsoft. DRM sucks and I don’t trust any dependency to cloudservices.
12:30 actually it's possible to copy because if a 3D model is printed several times from a printer like the Bambu X1CC the company will know this and can create an index of how many times that model was printed and later work with the file that they already have.
If you print through the cloud, it would be fairly easy for a Chinese server to see how many parts are being printed. If someone is printing >1000 then it's probably a part worth stealing. They may not be able to determine what some of these parts are although realistically, how many people don't use descriptive filenames? I tried to keep prices low on products I designed to discourage copycats in a niche market but still had a few direct copies selling for more because the thieves are better at marketing. It sucks and the patent system no longer works as intended. It's mostly a tool for the deep pocketed with a lot more lawyers than morals.
I returned the scambu printer after I realized they won’t let you update the printer firmware without connecting to their cloud where they have full access to all your personal data and access to the printer camera.
I'm torn on this topic. Took ages to bring myself to buy the Bambu for this reason. I hate not feeling like I own something I purchased , but I guess with apple and Samsung etc we're all desensetised to it. Shame
After 7 years of 3d printing I have learned the hard way, only open source / rep rap and NO cloud dependencies. Then lets also consider that country A is not going to allow country B's internet traffic anymore. The way the world is moving at the moment you really want to depend on a server in China? Nope. Open source / rep rap only for me.
What rep rap?
This cloud-based closed system is the main reason that I spent the money to build a RatRig printer instead of buying a Bambu labs printer. I want to use my network, my slicer, and my hardware. Not someone else's who can change it or get rid of it because of a boardroom conversation or golf course business deal.
But you can use Bambu stuff without cloud...
Bambu just rolled out fully features offline printing just today actually. By fully features i mean camera, remote SD card content management, object exclusions and all. You don't need clouds for any of its features now.
@@QuangNguyen-wb5kd yeah but the point is that could change. Ulimaker had everything offline and free for a while before making it a paid subscription. And I am assuming firmware updates and such are still online?
@@Unscientificallyyeah but the code for enabling most features is open source through their slicer, so you can always have a copy of the known work version. I managed to trick my x1 to think my pc is the server and try to download firmware from there with MQTT and home assistant. The overall concern for cloud printing is there but all the work around is already in place for Bambu lab printers.
@@QuangNguyen-wb5kd I hadn't heard about object exclusions. By just rolled out, when was this released? I'm trying to find info but not seeing anything.
I despise cloud services because you don't ensure they won't shut down and they will start to enforce subscription services and will make you dependent on using this specific cloud app even if it's to make it easier and when it goes under you will not be able to use the printer because the cloud services are down and it's just another sure way for them to trap you into their eco system and get as much money as they can from you
Yeah. For example with creality's track record, I wouldn't be surprised if the k1 gets phased out and forgotten in a few months. If they do shut down then your kinda screwed. Also companies can make free features now a paid subscription if its cloud based, like ultimaker has done in the past.
Or they EoL a product line to get to to buy the new product. Usually there’s nothing wrong with the thing aside from age.
Google is also notorious for killing of products for random reasons.
And it's totally unnecessary, even if you do want the advantages of cloud connection (like remote access). OctoPrint can easily be set up for remote access. Or it can connect to Home Assistant if you already have that configured for remote access and you want basic monitoring (picking files and starting print jobs isn't always that useful anyway...)
The mobile industry are the ones to blame for this greedy price gouging system. The App Store is a huge one in that concept. This is why I don’t purchase any of the products that support cloud wall subscription services. Those games that people play on their mobile phones, I’m going to take you all on a little trip with this;
First to get going;
1. Your own internet service, respectively between $180.00 - 200.00 a month.
Now for mobile phone =,around $100.00 - 200.00 depending on the type of service you have and the options.
And now your 3d printer (s)
The cost of your printer + options + upgrades to hardware.
Filaments cost
Electricity
A place to setup all of this. ( air filter action for those filaments that need that so you don’t kill your self and family and pets ).
And those costs are just the start before you get into cloud based subscription services.
😢😢😢😮😮😮
👍
Michael literally states all that in the video lol 😂
Along the same lines as the "servers shutting down for games because the game gets too old," there's nothing saying Bambu for example will keep functionally for the X1 and P1P once they're old. Once there's an "X2" or "X3," and a "P2P" or "P3P" who's to say that Bambu won't disable functionally of their older printers, either because they're "too old," or to encourage users to purchase a new one
Yes there is as these printers work with out being connected to the cloud. So even if Bambu stops supporting it that doesn't mean it will not print. Besides if there is a big enough market for it people will design or make a business out of creating spare parts just like they have done for the car industry. But your complaint about Bambu can be applied to nearly every tool in the DIY space. Say the KLipper developers decide they are done unless there is someone willing to pick up that project and continue it will die just like anything else. Proprietary or closed source they both have the same outcome one is just easier to pick up and run with than the other, but if the market truly exist both can be done.
@@mekko1413I completely agree. I was simply saying that "getting too old" could eventually make Bambu remove compatibility for cloud services for those printers in 5-10 years. I'm very glad that these printers still have SD support. I was simply mentioning how getting attached to using the cloud with your P1P might be a bad idea in the long term, when the P1P becomes ancient history. I'm aware that the printer will still print without the cloud.
For me it's simple: if the printer cannot provide all of its functionality on my local network through wifi, I'm not interested. I wouldn't mind if it defaulted to cloud but having to use an sd card as a fallback is a no go. Not being able to use my own choice of slicer is another big reason I'm not interested.
Im thumb's this up purely for the profile picture lmao
Bambu lab just released new slicer version, enable camera in lan mode, object exclusions, starts print on sd card from slicer, persistent calibrations, all worked on lan.
This is legitimately great news. I just want this to transition automatically if the cloud goes down and allow offline updates.
cloud service is only useful if its OPTIONAL.
if it REQUIRES cloud service, or internet connectivity to do basic functions. it should be avoided at almost any cost.
Thing to remember is there is a dumb machine your playing with at the end of the day.
Not "almost" - Just plain *ANY* COST!
Creality isn't the first to encourage users to move to a subscription to get an "enhanced" version of the app. It was only a couple of years ago that ChituSystem made boards that required signed sliced files that kept other slicers, unless they used an official SDK. The SDK only came about after the outcry was much larger than probably expected.
( I just came across a video from Uncle Jessy a month ago that ChituSystem that the latest boards, like on the Saturn 3 Ultra WiFi, that allow the user to send a job to the printer wirelessly requires the user to use Chitubox software. And supposedly, as of a month ago the Chitubox app and SDK crash on Macs with the Apple M1 or M2 processors.)
I think having a slicer built into a cloud site (like Thingiverse, Thangs or Printables) would be useful for mobile phones. A 3D printer you have on standby could be sent the resulting g code (via Octoprint or similar) and start the print.
As I design my own models (and have had issues with past non-3D printed designs being "appropriated" without credit), I haven't used any cloud-based services with my printers.
As a result from cloud?
@@sacric1de not from cloud services - but if it happened outside of them, it sure can happen within.
I find the Bambu cloud convenient and so I use it - but part of that is knowing I get about 80% of the functionality in LAN-only, so if I want to disconnect, I can.
I do think this is a better video than the similarly-themed video NathanBuildsRobots just dropped. Here, you're talking about generalities and highlighting concepts people should know so they can make informed decisions. The other video is a read-through of Bambu's privacy policy - on the face of it a useful thing but in practice he skipped over many important sentences that significantly changed the meaning of some paragraphs; failed to research the context (ie, privacy law) and so complained of "missing details," many of which should never be in a privacy agreement because they're defined by the law; and in general failed to appreciate that a privacy is a legal document and it needs to be read while thinking like a lawyer. As a law-profession-adjacent individual, that was really annoying, and in my opinion all that video is doing is creating unfounded panic.
Even your local network can get hacked... and data drop outs can occur during file transfers. Remember you have a dumb machine attached to the end of your system. I still use SD cards for printing. For some prints I still dry run the file to make sure it looks like it's working properly, just a hangover from using industrial CNC,s. As for the cloud forget it.
Thanks for putting it all together into an informative and easy to follow video. I would never purchase a printer that streamed the sliced file from the cloud. I use Octoprint on my local network so I can monitor them from another room in my house but have not connected it to the cloud for remote monitoring. That would be a great feature but I worry about the security risk.
The only thing I am afraid of is that companies start subscription models to use their cloud services. Its just super common nowadays that you just need a subscription for everything. So annoying.
Exactly, this trend is everywhere, subscriptions and marketing is the name of the game lately and is getting more and more difficult to avoid it because almost every company is starting to implement that model. To the point that a good marketing for a company would be to sell products and services free of subscription and/or data gathering from their part to work as intended. If I were Prusa marketing team I would make a point that once you buy the printer is yours and fully functional without the need of any cloud or anything (and I would have a cloud service only if you want it, as a plan b that you could live without).
I would never have a cloud based printer for all the reasons you touched on. I have a PiHole on my network that is a fantastic tool for guarding privacy.
I use my bambu x1c exclusively offline. Spaghetti detection still mostly works, no real issues.
Great to see that careful approach is being pushed forward here, it's why projects like OctoPrint and FDM Monster exist ;)
It's almost impossible to avoid cloud services in our daily life but we can avoid them as much as possible - meaning, don't buy a 3D printer that explicitly requires the use of cloud-based printing. I'd also maybe go as far as to say that you shouldn't buy one that offers it as a convenience, as the only thing standing between you and forced cloud printing is a firmware update. Would everyone install said update once word got out? Maybe not. Wouldn't enterprising community members find a way to roll back updates or jailbreak the printer after such an update? Probably. But at that point, you'll probably be at the very least banned from buying spare/replacement parts or getting official service. Maybe worse.
yeah sun setting servers is the big issue for me, I've started selfhosting a bunch of stuff just so I have control over everything, using wireguard as a vpn to remotely connect me to my networks works pretty well and was quite easy to setup
I just have a spare PC monitoring all my self-setup stuff so I can use a program like parsec to remote into it and do my stuff. it's not the most bandwidth efficient job but it does what it needs to with reasonable difficulty
Been burned too much by Cloud stuff. $200 Canary cameras that had features revoked and turned into paperweights if you don't pay monthly. Ring doorbells doing the same thing if you don't subscribe. Went with HomeAssistant and Frigate NVR, even got my Roomba running with ha-rest980 so it's not dependent on the cloud so the connection could be severed. If you can't self-host, at the end of the day you don't really own the product. Next project is Obico for local printer AI failure detection which should be fun!
worse fact about ring door bells, they give the police a 247 feed of your house and family
@@BeefIngot yep I ditched them after Amazon bought them and wanted to do that "sidewalk" crap
In a video (a few years ago) you said you used the paid-for On-Shape platform because the free to use one made your models available to others. That stuck in my mind and I never name models so there can be interpreted from the name. Thanks Michael.
Yeah, I never liked the idea of cloud computing. It's too unsafe.
Thanks, Michael! 😊
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
lol its no worse than the general populations home networks. Besides cloud just means hosted elsewhere. None of the tools or this 3d printing community would exist without cloud computing.
You're buying items from gearbest and banggood and then not liking "the idea of cloud computing" Lol
@@mekko1413 Are you sure you are not confusing cloud services (that can include storage yes), with a simple internet connection? For instance - A website where you can download files, is explicitly not a cloud service. It has nothing to do with cloud services as a concept. A cloud service is a model that stores your personal data (being a company or a single user) on a server that's managed by the company that delivers that cloud service (like storage). Public accessible internet space is NOT a cloud service!
Just my own experience here. I got the Creality Wifi box and camera for my Ender 3 S1 Plus about 2 months ago. I thought it would make things easier with the features, e.g. timelapse, video recording, cloud printing and notifications and with a recent update AI spaghetti detection. I use 3 different printers and use prusaslicer through Repetier Server to manage them all and its easy to set up, easy to use but it doesn't have the advanced modern features. I wanted something that was plug and play, ready out of the box with little configuration but its not been as advertised at all.
The first problem was the notifications, when you subscribe to "System Message" which sends print updates you automatically get badge notifications and other stuff thats completely superfluous.
Its possible to use prusa slicer or another 3rd party slicer but once you do its not a streamlined workflow and takes some messing around to get it to work.
Local printing works, but again only by mapping the FTP location of the CrealityBox and uploading to it and then using the Creality Cloud app. But none of the additional features work (timelapse, video recording, AI Spaghetti detection or filament runout).
Timelapse only seems to work on items that are downloaded from Creality Cloud or sliced with the online slicer.
The online slicer is impossible to use on an app on the phone and in the desktop browser version, if the orientation of the model isn't flat to the bed its incredibly difficult to lay flat, which means there are almost always supports or a raft.
Filament runout detection doesnt appear to stop the printer when its triggered, when printing from any prints except via SD Card directly on the printer and when the flag is triggered every print after that requires an acknowledgement that there is filament in the sensor even when its definitely there.
It's plagued with bugs and functions that simply don't work. My experience of Creality Cloud is seriously wanting and while the box itself seems like its a good deal, I think next time I'll buy a raspberry pi or other SBC and install octoprint, its probably less hassle and work overall.
Thanks for sharing. You can install Klipper on the Creality hardware if you decide to give up on it.
@@TeachingTech Thanks, I'm definitely thinking that's the way to go. Personally I'd like to see a hybrid system, something that works locally but has cloud connectivity for monitoring or kicking off the prints while not on the home network, that is slicer agnostic and a few of the newer features too. But I can't have my cake and eat it too (unless I bake it myself)!
I am not overly concerned about IP being stolen. I think they would have easier ways of seeing my designs and getting someone to draw in CAD. The backdoor access to my LAN is a bigger concern. I save all my files locally as a precaution to their system going down or being closed. The convenience of no octoprint etc and the inbuilt slicer makes my workflow very easy. OK, ease might mean risk but I think it is manageable.
I can basically do all of the cloud stuff with OctoApp and a few plugins for OctoPi. I suppose I could set up OctoEverywhere to allow me to access it outside of the house, but I don't print away from home.
There are NO practical advantages of the cloud. The idea of needing the cloud to do any core functionality (like printing to begin with or spaghetti detection) means to me they shipped cheaper hardware to offload core functionality to a service the manufacturer has no incentive to maintain unless they "monetize" the cloud with subscription costs, intrusive ads, or by invading our privacy to collect data. Maybe I'm not the right use case, but I can't imagine needing to "remote print" outside my WiFi range.
Thanks for the heads up about "Creality Cloud" - while I don't have any Creality printers or equipment currently, the fact they would even try this gets them squarely on my "don't buy" list.
Remember, there is not cloud, there is only someone else's computer.
- and 'they' also get a copy of your work.....
I am very happy with my local Octoprint connected printer (with octoeverywhere for Discord) and like it more than could based systems
Ive seen one aspect thawt wasnt covered here being that these printers are encrypting info they send back to teh servers, but nowhere are you able to verify what they are sending. This obviously creates an issue when connected to your local network with other more sensitive devices. The human element still exists in these since someone needs to sift thru any info obtained, but people should still be worried that these printers could be sending more than they say they are and there is no way to check it as far as I know.
Great video as always 👍
Good walied points 😮
I use a VPN back to home in the unlikely event that I need to mess with my printer. My particular gateway makes it easy to set up a VPN correctly and securely.
I’m wary of exposing equipment online. Security on devices are questionable at best since vendors don’t seem to give it any thought. That’s assuming they even know how to in the first place.
I’ve also been burned a plenty of times by vendors going away or EOLing products for reasons (Google I’m looking in your direction). It helps if the device allows local access for OpenHAB or Home Assistant control.
I am lazy. 3D Printing is a hobby of mine that I don't have time to be thoroughly invested in. So some of these might have been covered already by other TH-camrs and I just don't know about them. With these newer, more "professional" 3D Printers, they are starting to think more like businesses and less like open-source hobbyists. Below are some potential issues I see going forth with this change in ideology.
1) Has anyone gone through the terms of service of these newer 3d Printers and seen more "expensive lawyer speak" in them?
2) Do they contain provisions that anything that gets uploaded through them can be used by them or their affiliates?
3) What trademark rights do you have on what you design and print according to the Terms of Service?
4) What rights do you give them to use the data with, when you agree to the Teams of Service?
5) Does modifying parts of the printer or software automatically void all of your warranty and online support?
This was just off the top of my head.
But Open Source people are the professionals ----------------------- boom-.
I'm concerned about privacy (webcam images and uploaded models for instance) and about cloud service reliability (if it goes down do i loose some of the features?). So i'm pretty happy with my no-cloud 3d printer together with a raspberry Octoprint.
_"webcam images"_
just load-up a bunch of dic*-pix
Bambu is definitely feeling the strain on their cloud service. Sometimes it takes 10 - 20 seconds for the printer video feed to start playing after tapping the play button in the Bambu Handy app.
Bambu has a LAN only option that entirely omits the use of their cloud.
And the risk is that a bean counter in Bambu will come up with the idea that if you pay them some extra dollars you can go to the top of the queue. Then before you know it everyone has to pay per print ... No thanks!
@@martinathome296 Bambu's cloud is entirely optional. It's only needed for a handful of connected features, like monitoring prints with a phone. The printer works perfectly when disconnected from the internet completely.
@@Trevellian but you’ll eventually have to connect to their cloud for firmware updates
If I bought a K1 or Bambu printer, I think I'd be looking for a way to "root" it, and get complete local control back, scraping off all of the cloud stuff. The use case for remote print starting is just too limited in my opinion. Usually my printer would not be in a state where it's ready to print. Now if you could get the print off the bed, and teleport it to where I am, that's another story. It's much more efficient to just haul the printer with me to the remote location, I think.
Even monitoring is dubious, and a lot of that can be done with a separate web cam anyway. And most people are aware of the danger with cloud-based web cams, so it's not hidden.
I'm getting to the point where I think the government needs to crack down on what kind of data that companies can legitmately snarf up from users. The EU has GDPR, and I think it ought to affect cloud-based 3D printers as well. I'm hoping someday the U.S. will enact similar legislation.
Just a thanks for your videos, I've watched a lot of them!
Cloud service can be not effective in some region on my country with poor internet connection so we still use traditional method for 3d printing. Since Raspberry Pi too pricey, we use Android TV Box as Octoprint and Klipper because it very cheap.
Bambulab has a LAN only mode why does no one mention this?
As someone with an unreliable Internet connection, with data caps on top of that, I avoid cloud-only solutions. On top of that, who's paying for the cloud servers? Any cloud service MUST go to a subscription model to pay for it. If you're not paying for the service, who is?
I do have access to my 3D printer / OctoPrint via CloudFlare tunnel. I configured in such a way that ONLY me have access to it. I can access from home with no problem using domain as it knows that i am using home network (M ISP Public IP address whitelisted) and if i am accessing from outside home network it uses 2FA, email gets sent with temp PIN number valid for 30 min.
I think one other possibility aside from theft of models that are sent to the printer via the cloud is blocking models that run afoul of some rule. It's irritating that scanners in the US will refuse to return the scan if it detects it just scanned money. It would be very irritating if it were determined that a model couldn't be printed for some reason, law, whatever. Although this could be done locally on the printer (like how it's locally done with the scanners), doing it in the cloud could allow for immediate updates to the list of banned models as well as analyzing meshes for similarity to banned models.
my first 3D printer was a New Matter printer. Great little first printer but everything was in the cloud. When the company went away they showed how to use a connected computer to still use the printer but really the experience was horrible and killed the printer. I love the Bambu but wish it wasn't reliant on the cloud.
Government may mandate cloud 3D printing providers to scan for prints of objects that are illegal (e.g. 3d printed guns). This would be done by an algorithm that can lead to false positives (for example, printing an object that would have the same file name as a gun part).It's not so hard to imagine police knocking on your door because of a print you started, and you having to explain yourself to police, who don't really know much about 3D printing and may be trigger happy.
Gov can go suck my extruder. Giving up my privacy for conviences is not a trade I make easily in my daily life in general.
They were saying a few months ago that Cura released an update that was supposed to recognize parts and such. I think there was a French company that did the same too.
That's just what i need, my printer to get my dog shot..
@Teaching Tech
One major aspect you haven't touched on, and which I haven't seen many people talk about: malware!
Every IT security expert will tell you that such connected devices are a prime means to spread malware.
IoT and other connected devices, like such printers, are usually VERY POORLY protected, if at all(!), and are a prime spread vector for malware to propagate thru (local) networks.
Malware being spread via IoT devices is nothing new and has already happened a lot.
I'm anti cloud. I've spent the last two years moving most of my life from the cloud. Even my home automation stuff is controlled by me and not cloud connected/dependent.
I think there is something that gets overlooked by those companies: the 3D printing community is still full of tinkerers and even an engineer here and there. If their products suck too hard, we will just do it ourselves. And it also brings us back to Prusa, who have added local connectivity into their Mk4 but no other cloud nonsense. And I think they will never be mad enough to do so, unless there is no other way technologically. Spagetti detection machine learning can require that cloud thing, but it should be an optional feature, not an always on system. That even sucks in video games, but as a normal customer I can't really do anything against that
The thing I've most worried about, partly due to the descriptions in the OctoPrint documentation, is someone taking control of my printer, overheating it or otherwise damaging it and/or my house. I'd probably take the step of manually uploading anything that I would consider sensitive, so that it couldn't be copied even if they have rooms full of people watching the normal uploads.
So many companies go bust. If a printer cannot get a file to print without the cloud servers, as you said, it would be useless. Your present cloud based printers have a local option, but I wonder how long this will last until the companies deem they need to save the money of installing local devices.
I am looking to add wifi to my printer, but it will be only on my local network, no cloud services thank you.
I had a peek at Creality Cloud when it launched and was not impressed, stolen models were my main concern but now my concern would be security and my data, if you are not paying for a product then you are the product
Yeah, because of this built-in subscription tool/ e-waste potential i just bought prusa 3.5
I was strongly considering upgrading my Ender to the x1 Carbon.... I was unaware of the cloud issue. Is there anyway to limit wireless interaction with the printer to your LAN? Is the only option USB / SD Card? This really does give me pause. Love the content.. thank you.
Mandatory app/cloud is a dealbreaker to me. Local network or nothing!
And once you get to the local network (assuming it's connected, as I'd expect), if you speak TCP/IP, you're anywhere the 'net is.OctoPi speaks TCP/IP like a native:)
Good video and glad this topic is being highlighted. I don't agree with the assumption that you don't think someone else can work out your model Intent. That seems quite nieve that other engineers aren't smart enough. Also feel you missed the point around companies and their employees using these type of printers for R&D and proprietary development. Being that bambu allows third parties to access your data and it wouldnt be hard to know where these files are coming from and by who, your now allowing sensitive development work to be accessed by third parties who can easily be government, defense, authroities, even rival companies
What about slicers like prusa slicer and prusa connect that is collecting information ? Are not they guilty of the same thing ?
I hear ya and I agree, but after years of fiddling with these awful open source printers it's really nice to have something that just works right out of the gate. Remote printing isn't that big of a selling point or an issue in my mind, and I think as time goes on we will see better alternatives for remote printing over LAN. I don't get ads with Bambu, but Creality is an awful company with awful products so seeing their "flagship" have ads is unsurprising, albeit frustrating.
I would be concerned of a bad actor gaining access to a cloud based printer that has poorly designed printer firmware security and potentially cause physical damage by turning the hot end beyond its thermal limits and cause a fire for example.
For a safety standpoint unless I'm home I don't print so cloud connectivity is not something I would ever use. I don't like cloud stuff to begin with. In fact I wasn't using TH-cam's servers to watch your video as it was already in my local media server so I can watch it when I want, even if my internet goes down.
You can't send a print to a bambulab printer without going through the cloud? That would be a deal breaker for me. I'm also now reading that while Bambu Studio slicer is open source, the network plugin is closed source.
It looks like I'm going to have to buckle up and dump a full work week into building an open source klipper printer.
You can use LAN mode on the printer to turn off cloud features and still print wirelessly. With cloud enabled you can still send directly to the printer by using Send instead of Print in the slicer, or using ftp, or using SD card.
@@technicallyreal Good to know, however, with the closed source nature of Bambu Studio networking, I'd need to inspect the network traffic to be sure my files still aren't being uploaded to their servers even in LAN mode. This is a regrettable choice they've made in my opinion. I'll have to stick to PrusaSlicer and Klipper.
Self hosted apps are the way to go. Cloud bad.
- actual cloud/cybersecurity engineer
I totally agree, and I even know it's possible with relatively little cloud interaction, but how many people have network engineers sitting at home? I'm a tech guy and Im too lazy to set up wiregaurs properly (I should get on it).
Its a matter of how much energy you have to expend. Basically until it becomes easy, and not tech guy """easy""" (this is in reference to the type of people who think installing Gentoo is fun), it's somewhat unreasonable to expect people to self host.
In concept though I personally would love a world of self hosted apps with global reach with a simple wiregaurs VPN setup and a domain name.
@@BeefIngot 100% agree. We're getting there.
I think the bigger concern would be intellectual property. Say you are working to develop something and sending files for prototypes. That information could be used to give competitors any idea of what you are working on.
A smart man once said "There is no cloud, there's someone else's computer"
If you upload your design to the cloud, you're essentially giving the cloud a copy of your work..
- where will it end up?
Corporations grading data and ignoring individual privacy has gotten out of control. A good example is IOT controlled lightbulbs that send location info and commands to the cloud, effectively tracking the owners behaviour. Knowing location and time patterns would be very useful to burglars, etc.
I'd never keep a device that does not operate without the cloud. Manufactures should need to disclose data it receives, so it's inline with the focus of it's business, not just collected and sold.
All the points in this video are excellent and they're likely to stand the test of time (probably with a few additions in future).
Hi from Will and Mr Data :):]
I paused at 11.40
Things licensed has vanished in past and then found used at parent host, im going to type in my opinion for safety but i see.
Things have been taken by many and varied angles over long time frames by what i call sharks.
Based on my long term experience from being in this sector since before thingiverse existed.
There appear sharks operating at many areas where things can be taken from newbs. Everything from newbs showing and giving away designs, to the sites and services that have had varying levels of issues over time.
Im dancing because to type it more directly might not be in my best interest. But you can see i have experienced many such similar issues going on, lost things to sharks IN MANY layers. So yes caution is totally required.
Wishing you nice success, be well.
Living in a place were network connectivity can go at any time makes this a nightmare if the industry moves in this direction.
Cloud connectivity is a big "nope" from me.
If I can't use all the features of a device i bought and paid for *completely offline* and without any features paywalled behind an additional subscription, then I don''t want it.
Great video Mike, the Creailty Cloud ads are very annoying, and without paying you cannot print away from your local
Network, but as you know we also now live in a danger zone of the hobby becoming regulated and “maybe” on the cloud elements, it should be in some way. If you look at how DJI “standardised” drones will we be seeing a similar pathway. One other thing I can see happening next is the throw away society path where you buy a product it breaks after a while and you just Chuck it and get a new one, no repairing just general consumerism.. watch this space! Anycubics recent attempts at cloud working has been better but let’s be fair we all fear the Chinese server pathways and how can that be regulated inside a communist construct?
This is my biggest guff on my P1P. Yeah it’s nice to send files from my computer to my printer, but going through their cloud services is stupid. Why can’t I just send it over my local network like klipper does. It’s slow as heck for the P1P
We’ve talked about it on your Discourse forum. But had to vent again.
You can send it over your local network, but like you said, it's just slow. However, it's actually not any slower over your local network than it is when using normal/cloud mode, it just feels that way because you're forced to watch the progress bar on your PC as file is transferred to the printer's microSD card. In normal/cloud mode you only watch the progress bar as the file is uploaded to the cloud, and then the file is transferred from cloud to the printer's microSD card in a separate step (which you can see from the printer itself, on the LCD).
For example.. It may only take 10 seconds in normal/cloud mode, yet take 45 seconds in LAN mode. But in reality it's taking 10+45 seconds in cloud mode, but you're not forced to stare at the progress bar for the 45 second stage (unless you go stand at the printer and watch it happen over there).
Almost forgot - the actual reason it's slow is because of the crappy ESP32-powered WiFi. Supposedly much faster on the X1.
@@technicallyreal interesting. I hadn’t tried. I knew you could still use SD card functionality, but it just adds time and feels convoluted.
On my other machines I like how easy klipper is.
I also don’t believe the P1P has any of the AI spaghetti detections. It was mentioned in the video that “all Bambu printers” come with it. Not trying to nitpick bir worth noting. Unless I’m an idiot and just overlook that feature on mine.. which I suppose is plausible 🥹
@@technicallyreal for some of my bigger prints too, it’s taken over an hour for it to download and unpack the 3mf files. I’ve bitched about it on the discourse before, and the consensus was that the X1 didn’t have the same issues.
Which kind of bugs me, because the P1P is more marketed as the X1 without the case, AI and a few bells and whistles. It felt very much that the brass tacks of them were the same
On my side i love using my 3d printer trough usb because the company who made it still sell the lcd screen at 50€. Bought the printer 300€ five years ago and now they are selling it at 479€ with cold bed and no springs. I don't understand those kind of company. For this price you can have a prusa mini with springs / hot bed.
One thing that worries me about cloud services (and the growing popularity of 3d printing in general) is the application of copyright, patent, and trademark law in ways that would kill this hobby. I'm not worried about Disney seeing my model of Grogu and stealing it. I'm worried about them seeing my model of Grogu and suing me for copyright violations. Or BMW noticing that I've uploaded a model for a plastic grill that they sell for $100 and pointing their big corporate lawyers at me, or Thangs, or Thingiverse, or Printables. Cloud printing presents a way for a subpoena or civil suit to "prove" how many prints have been done and how much "damage" (with heavy quotes) to a brand has occurred.
Our hobby has been fairly niche for decades, and I'm really glad that it's becoming more mainstream. But this means we're no longer obscure enough for giant corporations (and government agencies) to ignore. I worry that we aren't prepared to fight for our right to model, upload files, and print freely.
fwiw parody has a long history of incredibly strong protection by US law. bmw and disney can throw a fit all they want over my models making fun of them. treble damages for fraudulent copyright lawsuits is a thing.
Exactly this. And it's always a slippery slope for worse things to come.
Heck, within a year, I could even see the ATF saying you made a machine gun just because you made a cosplay item that looks like a gun.
@@TMS5100 And in the US those laws protect the coorporations or are just bent till they suit their needs.
If you make a product that they can claim hurts their profit then they will sue you to oblivion, does not matter if you disclaim it as a fan-product, if it is completely non-commercial or otherwise.
11:05 For my commercial application all hardware is strictly offline. I do not tolerate even the possibility of an IP leak to "interested parties". You claimed that risk of theft was mitigated due to an overload of data requiring too many people and too much expertise. I'm afraid that isn't so - for example Chinese ops have more than enough labour resources and methods for highlighting "hot property" simply and easily. If you want to build a sustainable business in this space you simply have to keep your systems closed loop.
Privacy info should definitely be a concern, especially when your data is sent to China. To help with issues in shipping, I made the mistake of giving a phone number when ordering from AliExpress. Now I get scam/spam calls in Mandarin.
Here's my take on cloud based slicing providers stealing content: It is highly unlikely they will be stealing from "hobbyist" level users. Instead, they will carefully identify accounts that are likely to produce interesting prototypes. Say... SpaceX, for example, or Nvidia. Big companies like that don't name their models "widget v1", they name them more carefully, including the specific identifiers that are necessary to trace backwards if there is a problem in the prototyping process (this is why many companies use code names during product development). It doesn't matter if someone runs off and sells the design, as you said, it's likely not useful. What really matters is that they got a long look at the internal processes of a company that in some cases may be publicly traded. If you had advanced notice that AMD was building an Nvidia killer, and from observation, you knew the prototyping phase for some plastic parts generally preceded the release by 9 months... you'd be in a pretty sweet spot to make some "unrelated investment choices" now wouldn't you? Monitoring the supply chain of a company is the oldest trick in the book for knowing what kinds of things they are working on. As 3D printing becomes part of the development cycle (and therefore the supply chain), it is a likely place to go to get a "fly on the wall" view. Note, that the *company* itself may not have a policy of monitoring these things, yet that doesn't stop *employees* of said company from doing it and selling the info to tech bloggers/pundits/investors, or frankly just monetizing it themselves.
Second point: Some 3D printable items (think firearm components) are legal in some jurisdictions and not legal in others. If you are a US citizen and send a "questionable" print to your home printer while you are vacationing in Australia, is the cloud company bound by the laws of the US, or Australia? It sounds ridiculous until you remember they got Al Capone on tax evasion. If some prosecutor wants to make a name for themselves, this might just be the ticket. In the end, it makes the legality of things just one step fuzzier. If you don't like that scenario, then simply consider this: If the cloud based company is based in Australia, could they reject the printing of components they find objectionable, even if I'm at home sitting next to my printer?
Yeah but do you think those companies you mention will be using hobby grade machines and upload the secret models to a Chinese cloud? C'mon bro.
@@Drumaier I've literally seen video of Ender 3s at SpaceX. Rule of acquisition #3: "You should never spend more for an acquisition than you have to."
Seen too many services disappear. Cloud is good for some things where current information is vital, but unnecessary for others.
Not one feature including the failure identification needs the cloud. The only thing you need to know is they retain your gcode. Think about where the power is in this dynamic. Nothing you print stays yours.
I think its worth mentioning that at least Bambulab has a Lan mode. I will say though that it doesn't have feature parity as unreasonably Lan mode doesn't allow you to see the video stream, and they've said they would fix this, but haven't gotten around to it.
On top of that, there is no way to update over microSD or Lan, which means you can't update without internet connectivity.
The worry about theft is very legitimate if you are a large corporation though. Having servers in China and therefore accessible to the Chinese government, makes these printers a no go for companies.
Also, my God if the Bambulab app was anything like the creality app I'd throw the printer out and never recommend them again. I also don't recommend the K1 for the same reason.
Anyhow, if Bambulab enabled video and allowed you to update in Lan only mode, I would be sufficiently freed of worry that it might be something nefarious planned for the future, because you would have more control and freedom if the company exploded.
4 times I have written a comment at several 3d web sights, and the posts have been emmediately removed. I includeded bambu labs privacy policy link. They don't hide anything about their data collection or the 3rd parties with whom they share your information, including government agencies.
I think that is why they are able to offer a good product so affordably. The real money is made selling your data.
In the machining world, the customer owns the drawing/model that you create for them, because they pay for it. Putting their intellectual property on the cloud is highly irresponsible.
You didn't mention a$$hats that will try to connect to your printer through weak cloud security and run large prints or try to override safeguards on the printer.
Paused at 12.25
The thing title is enough often.
The access to your info description of thing, your reputation for making expensive things,;your mic your connected device with enough details. May easy be enough to get a thing. Based on all other angles have sharks, and even licensing a proven genuine thing has NOT ensured against theft, See how i learned from the bites.
Based on what ive seen experienced and know , if all other waters have sharks operating, cloud would be unlikely not to experience some issues also. In my opinion.
Cloud would be good thing if it is optional and through your secured account specifically. Not pored into a giant bathtub of bits that anyone can access if they know how. Also i think slicing should be done on your computer not on a remote server, and this makes cloud kind of surplus. As for remote connectivity... work should be done on direct secure connection options.
I believe that sending files to print out of home is just marketing. Yeah, there is some times I'd like to do that, but it isn't that useful to me. Only way it makes sense would be a machine with multi-material capability, like the AMS, and having the desired material and color preloaded. For a home printer, the cons are way worse then this function, and for a company printer there will be somebody available to tend to the printer anyway.
Spaghetti detection is great, tho.
Anyway, I use Klipper on my printer, and I can reach it by remote connecting to a computer in home. Could be done for free, all printer profiles and slicer options are there, ready to use, without any ADs, no (aditional) security concern and no chance of the service just disappearing.
I also am not a fan of cloud services. On the network security side, the printer can and should be put on a VLAN with limited connectivity to required ports and addresses only, No inbound connections.
I am not a fan of being tied to one slicer since the developer can go dark, and cloud servers going dark is also an issue. But freemium 3D printers is the last thing I’d want to hear.
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned a man in the middle attack in all of this. It wouldn't be hard for a malicious actor to change the gcode between the cloud provider and the printer with potentially damaging or even dangerous potential. Also, the most common source of attack traffic on the internet is cloud connected devices. I'll be keeping all of my printers off the internet and on local network only.
Privacy is also a huge thing in the 3D printed firearms community. Imagine an ecosystem where the government implements some kind of monitoring algorithm to see which 3D printer users are printing lowers. Once that happens, its game over for 3D2A which is why RepRap is so important.
You changed my mind, I’m all for the cloud now. I’ve already had other hobbies ruined by idiots doing dumb things with the technology and ruining it for everyone that is using it responsibly.
I don't welcome cloud connected anything. Even without the hazards, I find that cloud connectivity generally doens't work as advertised or takes excessive time to communicate with the controlled equipment via the server. That lag is usually my main issue.
Then there's the updates and subscriptions added after the fact.
Or, in the case of Fusion360 where an offline version is available, but it's so slow as to be basically unuseable.
Temu is actually a legit store
I am shocked that noone has mentioned Printrbot by now. Their Simple Metal Pro that was more or less the last gasp of the company as China had utterly destroyed them on price worked only on the cloud. I have one because it had good bones and is not a poorly made printer if you only want to print PLA. I got a good price on it. I will end up converting it to Klipper when I get around to it so I can make it useful again. Cool little printer and an object lesson on why cloud slicing is a really terrible idea. Once the company went out of business, the servers were shut down eventually and the ability to slice on the cloud went out the window.
Printrbot was also the first ting om my mind when I saw this title of this video. Printrbot should have been a lession learned to not use cloud services combined with any 3D printer. As much convenient it is, it is a disaster waiting to happen at some point.
First don't sell any of your old non-connected 3D printers. If something happens, you can use them despite that they're too slow (except if you assembly a DIY 3D printer). I don't trust any cloud services even in my phone with my pictures and videos and ignore all the pop-up messages that tells me to use the cloud to "avoid" lost my data but I use the cable, connect to my PC and keep all safe on an external hard disc drive. Second, It's OK for me to control the printers when I'm outside from work but I (will) never download any STL/Gcode from the cloud because I love the fact to stay at home to check the first layer adhesion and next keep doing my things but checking with the mobile phone. Some gcodes are not suitable for your printer because there's people who upload them an cause your printer to fail. There's tons of options to avoid the cloud. My old 3D printers has a normal security camera from Yi home that's very cheap and I can check how it goes and turn off the printer if something is wrong with a smart plug. I have control of my 3D printer. With the cloud you don't know if somebody, with bad intentions, take your IP address of your printer and make it fail. Please... and finally....Avoid the cloud as best as you can. Just use it to control the 3D printer but not to send/share any file.
The bambu lab x1c can be set for local area network only. You can send the file to your printer via the lan, but you will still need to go to the printer to press start. You will also lose the timelapse feature.
You also lose the ability to update the printer firmware.
Prints start for me without having to go to the printer. Unless you mean in normal/cloud mode, using the "Send print" option in the slicer. That goes over LAN, but doesn't start the print.
@@technicallyreal I was talking when you put the printer in lan only mode you can't start a print from the slicer.
I hate subscription services. Only reason I can think of is steady cash flow.
im about done with all the smart devices, irritating as all hell most of the time, i have smart lights and smart plugs and a smart printer.
theirs no reason that my google home has to phone googles servers to turn my bedroom lights off, they are both on the same network, we are overcomplicating things that dont need it.
„There is no cloud it's just someone else's computer“
If a hacker sends a print job that is of an illegal object (say, a weapon/firearm) to your printer via a compromised cloud service, how much of a legal trouble would you be in?
the same legal trouble as if a hacker hacked into your body and made you do illicit substances. That is to say that I think that's a particularly contrived scenario.
I prefere octoprint or beeprint ( mks wifi firmware) as cloudflare zero trust tunnel makes it so easy to connect from outside without vpn or port forwarding
Even microsoft shut down the zune activation servers because they weren’t used nuch. But every single person purchasing a digital song has the right to activate it on a new computer for his lifetime. Shame on you, microsoft. DRM sucks and I don’t trust any dependency to cloudservices.
12:30 actually it's possible to copy because if a 3D model is printed several times from a printer like the Bambu X1CC the company will know this and can create an index of how many times that model was printed and later work with the file that they already have.
If you print through the cloud, it would be fairly easy for a Chinese server to see how many parts are being printed. If someone is printing >1000 then it's probably a part worth stealing. They may not be able to determine what some of these parts are although realistically, how many people don't use descriptive filenames? I tried to keep prices low on products I designed to discourage copycats in a niche market but still had a few direct copies selling for more because the thieves are better at marketing. It sucks and the patent system no longer works as intended. It's mostly a tool for the deep pocketed with a lot more lawyers than morals.
I returned the scambu printer after I realized they won’t let you update the printer firmware without connecting to their cloud where they have full access to all your personal data and access to the printer camera.
I'm torn on this topic. Took ages to bring myself to buy the Bambu for this reason. I hate not feeling like I own something I purchased , but I guess with apple and Samsung etc we're all desensetised to it. Shame
Gotta watch a couple of ads before printing starts, then it pauses every 15 minutes to show you more ads.