Two more things they needed to establish, 1) the closeness between Daemon, Laena, Rhaenyra and Laenor- because killing Laenor might have served Daemon better than the fakeout. 2) Why would Larys want to kill his family, especially Harwin, the Jaime to Larys''s Tyrion? Additionally I wished Rhaenys's hair was dark and the Strong boys's parentage a little bit mysterious. That's my main problem with HotD is there is so little mystery in the story.
To add on to Carmine's hypothetical post-Rhaenyra's wedding episode, would've been fun to see the duel between Daemon and Laena's Braavosi betrothed? I'm kinda shocked that they passed on the opportunity to have a scene where Matt Smith lands a bunch of stinging quips on the poor guy to rile him up enough to demand a duel.
Yes! Definitely! I mean, they showed Daemon killing Rhea Royce (which he most likely didn't do in the book), but they missed him slaughtering the Braavosi guy. And I know that technically neither Daemon nor Corlys broke the guest law... Yet, you know, the Old Gods might have had different opinion on the matter.
Well, GRRM openly said they wanted 13 episodes for season one, but it was considered a dead franchise at the time and they didn’t have enough clout yet with HBO
I need just one scene with Aegon and Sunfyre together. At the very least have Aegon mention his beloved dragon. People are amped to see this relationship and their arcs so hopefully they do it right. Sunfyre is the only source of unconditional love for Aegon,I hope they at least acknowledge it!
I guess but he’s going to be off screen a lot. I could count on one hand the amount of times we’d see him. We would only need him at rooks rest, Aegon finding him on Dragonstone, Sunfyre vs Moondancer and Sunfyre eating Rhaenyra. That’s only 4 times. The majority of the time he’s out of the war and healing in private. I doubt we will even see him fighting Greyghost, they’ll probably just say they saw a gold dragon fighting the wild dragon greyghost which will cause him to go looking for Sunfyre.
And I think people play up their bond a lot. In reality Sunfyre came from Dragonstone and was hatched near the Dragonmont volcano. He was always heading that way even before Aegon got to Dragonstone as he was seen near crab claw point. He went north from Rooks Rest and not south to Kingslanding. Then he landed on Dragonstone and never actually made his way over to Aegon. Instead he stayed in his cave and Aegon had to find him. Aegon didn’t sense he was near, fishermen had to tell him about a golden dragon eating Greyghost. We know dragons like to reside on Dragonstone when injured or sad. In the book Vhagar, Vermithor, Silverwing and Seasmoke all stayed on Dragonstone when their riders died. The thermal vents give them warmth and energy. It’ll be an ideal place for Sunfyre to heal. Have you got any other reason why people think they have such a close bond? It’s all I’ve been seeing about him and Sunfyre lately.
@@joshuaadams6565 what’s with all the mental gymnastics? You can not like Aegon and Sunfyre, I would understand that more than the wall of text trying to deny the existence of the bond between Aegon and Sunfyre when it’s clear to everyone even people that rightfully dislike Aegon have to admit and acknowledge that the two of them go through some extraordinary events together. Also you want more proof of their bond? Aegon cries once in the book, it’s not for his dead children, his dead brothers, nor his dead wife, it’s for his dragon that just perished and was the only source of unconditional love for the short reigning king.
Easy thing to do with Laena and Daemon in the hypothetical 5.5: Laena Claiming Vhagar! It would be an exciting thing and a great way to introduce Vhagar, would have shown their developing relationship and would have fleshed out how/why Laena claimed Vhagar. Have it so that she needed a dragon rider to help her get to Vhagar - her new nesting point is too dangerous to access by ship or horseback, but her mother’s forbidden her from trying because again, this is Vhagar. She needed someone who wouldn’t be afraid of pissing off Rhaenys, which rules out the only other two dragon riders at this point. This would show off Laena’s defiant nature, her kindness towards Vhagar (‘she shouldn’t be so alone’) and also her cunning in goading Daemon into helping her. All of these little things that would get us attached to this character so that 10 years later with a different actress, we still miss and mourn her. And if they didn’t want to repeat Aemond’s scene in episode 6, just cut the episode off before her flying Vhagar, just leave it on her marvelling at their new connection.
What to do with Daemon and Laena in your hypothetical episode 5.5? The book stuff. Have them fall in love (or lust, whatever) but have her betrothal stand in the way of a marriage. Daemon dueling the son of the former Sealord would provide the action set piece for the episode. They even already set up the betrothal in episode 4 I think, so this plot is not coming completely out of nowhere. Perhaps the episode could end with Daemon flying Laena to Vhagar, hinting to her claiming the dragon and hopefully making her riding Vhagar in the next episode more impactful.
I've heard a rumor that 'blood & cheese' is going to be an accident, and honestly if that's the case then this show is revisionist history, Rhaenerya was called 'Maegor with tits' for a reason and its not simply because of the unreliable narrators but her direct actions that resulted in the deaths of tens of thousands. This show is already biased towards the black faction (even some in the fandom are excusing/justifying the horrible things Rhaenerya and Daemon has done so far) and I honestly think they'll give certain actions/ideas that Rhaenerya orders in the source material to other characters as a way to absolve her of any wrongdoing. For example they'll have Corlys propose the blockade of Kings Landing which causes a famine.
Imo it was a great success. They achieved what was realisticakky possible and far exceeded my personal expectations of this show... I'm excited for season2!!!
They missed opportunities with sending letters back and forth for the grand maester conspiracies. Like, start a scene with one queen dictating a letter that is all polite and nice, and cut halfway through to the other queen with a maester dictating the other half of the message with a different tone
One small thing that I'm surprised they didn't do is add a bit more lore to the egg that Daemon takes in episode 2... They added the idea that it was the cradle egg picked out for Rhaenyra's dead baby brother Baelon, which I thought was quite clever, because then you can have that egg be the one that hatches into Sunfyre, so that its still Rhaenyra's brother's egg. The egg looked kinda dark gold so it does kinda fit. Considering the fate of Rhaenyra and Sunfyre, I figured by series' end this would increase the rewatch-value of S1E2 by a lot, to see Rhaenyra pluck that particular dragon egg from Daemon and give it to Otto. But I don't think they ever made the connection between Sunfyre and that egg?
@@TheTrollingMaster-xr9el In both book and show, the Daemon-Mysaria egg incident takes place a year or two before Aegon is born, I think? Its the episode 2 Dragonstone bridge confrontation that I'm thinking of, not the one in episode 10.
Sunfyre is a bit older than Aegon and was born on Dragonstone. Aegon bonded with Sunfyre when he was young. Aegon, Helaena and Aemond all had not been given craddle eggs and had to claim dragons.
Have a hard time taking anything someone says about the accuracy of the show vs. the book material, who can't even get the sex right of the dragon they're talking about. I mean, if everything has to be exactly as it is in the source material, then people discussing the topic should not be making such simple mistakes. Tsk tsk.
To be honest, I'm surprised that they chose to adapt the Dance of the Dragons at all. The story from the source material isn't that great (the ways dragons and armies do and don't matter, the character arcs that don't feel complete - it kinda feels like S8, tbh) and the confusing character names and family trees make it really hard for the audience to keep everyone straight. I think just about every other era of Targaryen history would've been more compelling TV.
What can I say? I really like Dunk and Egg. I think it would make for really compelling TV contrasting all the reigns of Daeron I, Baelor, Viserys II, Aegon IV and Daeron II, plus Elaena is my fav Targ. I think the Conquest is made for TV: its episodic, but not too repetitive, and there's some really powerful moments. With the Dance... I HATE the way Rhaenys the QWNW dies - does not feel like a completion of her arc. I could not keep track of which army was where, and which army mattered, etc. The death of Syrax felt like lazy writing. There's enough hints that Criston Cole is the father of Jace, so I would've liked it if he was a bit more involved in Jace's death. No idea how it could've been accomplished, but I would've liked to see Criston and Rhaenyra reunite at some point during the Dance. The only saving grace is that the history is supposed to be confused and contradictory - perhaps there's a more compelling narrative in there, if you untangle the thread - but they're way too tangled; I don't know where to begin.
Also with the Dance, where do you end the final season??? There isn't a great final moment. There's so many points when I felt "oh, well that's it - war's over. No way the other side can recover from this." But they just kept fighting, and it ruined the finality of it all when the war does stop. Spoilers ahead: What do you make that final scene? Putting Aegon III on the throne? That doesn't feel like a resolution to the conflict that's been built up. End with the marriage of Aegon and Jaehaera, with a bittersweet "marrying two extremely traumatized kids isn't great, but at least it means peace as both halves of the House of the Dragon are united" sort of vibe? Cuz that ending would be completely undercut when Jaehaera dies. Do you show the deaths of Alicent and Corlys, end where the book does with the end of the regency? Keep going, and show all the feats and foibles of Aegon III, Viserys II, their children and grandchildren, and end with the First Blackfyre Rebellion?
I still think they softened Rhaenyra and Allicent far too much. They are meant to be the two most hardened bitch queens in Westerosi history. I’m looking forward to more Aemond though. And I’m desperate to know who’s playing Daeron and Cregan!!!
I think season 1 should've been 8 episodes focused solely on the early years with the younger cast. Season 2 jumps ahead 10 years, being 8 episodes, ending with the Blood and Cheese event in the finale. Seasons 3 & 4 are 10 episodes each diving full into the Dance of the Dragons. I know the pacing would probably have been too long winded and taken too much time to build up to the main conflict, but honestly I think it would've served the characters better. We wouldn't have got so rushed with everything and had some odd events happen like Cole just murdering Joffrey at the wedding, which I find the most jarring and really think it doesn't work in the show at all. We could've had the tension mounting between those two at the ceremony and then had Cole kill him in the tourney where it makes sense, if there were more episodes to flesh it all out. But otherwise yeah, I think 12 episodes for season 1 with an extra in the early years and later years may have worked well enough too.
0:30 - At the time when season 1 was airing I actually said that "House of the Dragon" needed 13 episodes. I think three more episodes would've been best. 6 in the past, 7 in the present.
Mild spoiler: Baela is more of a tomboy and outspoken and Rhaena is more feminine and calmer. They don't play a big role in the Dance, because their dragons are either too young and small or not yet existing.
Yea I agree the pacing was too fast they should’ve had 12 episodes or ended the season with Viserys’s death so that Harwin, Laena, & the kids of alicent & rhaenyra were more fleshed out especially Heleana & at least 1 scene with her Dreamfyre & Aegon & Sunfyre
When you realize that Ryan Condel was supposed to do Rings of power, I don't know if we should be happy that we got good house of the dragon season or bad for getting a shit lord of the rings show.
The main issue with house of the dragon imo is that it doesn't give you a reason to care about any of the factions. There was no fan tribalism like with that you saw in G0T. A few extra episodes might have helped but they wasted the first couple of episodes by not giving us a reason to believe Rhaenyra would be a good or interesting ruler/is capable of playing the game
@@Ouranyama In the case of OG G0T you could reasonably assert that Tywin winning would be better for the realm as a whole. In House of the Dragon i have no clue what anyone believes aside from Rhaenerya not liking sexism
@@tornado4708 I mean that debating possible geopolitical outcomes is what made G0T very compelling and the quality of that discussion isn't there for HOTD. That's largely because HOTD has weak characters.
@@johnnyskinwalker4095 The older actors were cast first. They're the ones who will be carrying the show from now on. The younger actors were cast much later. Emma D'Arcy and Olivia Cooke were always Rhaenyra and Alicent.
I hope you guys are planning on covering wheel of time season 2. I thought season 1 was pretty mid but season 2 has been much better so far now that the characters are established.
It's a good show in comparison to trash, but put it beside early GoT and it's bad, really bad. Ryans boyish and simplified take on this story is depressing.
I think a lot of the issues with the show were due to source-material constraints. Like, episode 2 ends with this moment of "oh sh*t, Viserys chose the wrong child bride and now his actions have consequences. Daemon and Corlys are teaming up." But... this doesn't ever lead to consequences for Viserys? Daemon and Corlys attack the Stepstones, which is a war that Viserys supports. I guess the victory makes Daemon feel entitled to marry Rhaenyra, which makes Viserys rush to marry her off, so the move has consequences for Rhaenyra? Plus the bonds between Daemon and the Velaryons are strengthened as they become battle brothers, which is a consequence felt by Otto and the Greens?
Viserys choosing to marry Alicent instead of Leana is what caused the division between Rhaenrya and Alicent, which was a huge factor in the Dance of Dragons beginning. Same can be said for the strength and bond between House Targaryen and Velaryon being weakened, but he was still able to salvage that alliance by choosing to marry Rhaenrya off to Leanor. So I can understand saying his choice not having consequences there, but they definitely do have consequences when it comes to the destruction of his family.
ten is, yes, but i was saying in the context of having 2 episodes but they likely wouldn't go for it cuz 12 isn't a prime number. 13 is but HBO hasn't done 13 episodes for a show in years
Adaptations are called "adaptations" for a reason lol. The changes made from page to screen don't have to be 1:1 and a completely recreation, *as long as the changes do justice to the lore and make sense.* This is why it's important to have showrunners, writers and a director that truly understand the content that they are adapting. Those in charge don't necessarily have to be fans of the novels, but as long as they understand the story, the characters, where the story is heading, how they get there and the impact of events and characters in the story. It's fine if they change something in a way that makes sense and is plausible to the world they're in, as well as cuts the fat of the novel so we get the visual impact of those changes, it's fine. With everything happening, HOTD was actually an amazing show and they really put in effort to bring ASOIAF back to the pedigree early GOT once had. Unless you're Joe Rogan and wanted more dragons, HOTD was pretty great. The only issue I had was the constant little timeskips throughout every couple of episodes, as they were essentially speedrunning the story. The first 5 episodes practically act like a prolonged prologue, and I understand from a storytelling aspect as to why we needed to know these little nuance and moments in the story that will further develop in the story. The pacing of each episode was great, the directors for each episode knew how to pace their episodes, yet the time between each episode could be jarring for someone who wasn't familiar with Fire and Blood. Overall, House of the Dragon was great and it was amazing to revisit ASOIAF. You guys already mentioned some of my personal pet peeves, like Daemon taking Felix Felicis and basically fighting off Craghas Drahar' army by himself and surviving. Harwin Strong being shortchanged in the story and not showing us the relationship and development between Harwin and Rhaenyra. He was essentially a shadow husband to Rhaenyra for quite a long time and they grew a special bond, yet we never seen it happen and Rhaenyra immediately got over Harwin' death. I sincerely hope that we get flashbacks and explanations as the show goes on to things that the showrunners failed to deliver in the first season. I'm guessing that was their intention, cut the fat and give us what we need for now so that they can delve further and revisit those little character developments. They had a single chance to hook a major audience into the show, with a wider narrative at stake, they most likely decided to focus on the main plot points first and feed us those subplots later, which I don't mind at all. Either way, HOTD wasn't Game of Thrones in it's prime, yet it was still an amazing ASOIAF show. It was a return to form for high caliber content when compared to the latter seasons of Thrones and I am excited for more! 8.5/10 IMO.
The lack of developed relationships highlighted in the books was a real miss, Rhaenyra and Laena, Daemon and Corelys (we saw some of it) Rhaena and Rhaenyra etc. the bonds the dragons had as well
Whoa!!! The wheel of time has CAUSED PLOT HOLES!!! A lot of them. It’s basically season 8 of GoT without the production value… please don’t hype up that garbage pile. It’s absolutely an abomination!
My biggest concern is episode 9 and how every episode has a weird scene in it that feels kind of wrong. My only big problem I can think of is how Rhaenys appeared in the coronation, I think that goes against how well she remembered by the people as the Queen who never was. I think a theme constantly was how she would have been a great queen, but at the same time what she said to Alicent was perfect in my opinion and even better comming from her. Also wish they never removed her scene with Baela in the last episode that was another great scene for both characters.
George R.R. Martin did not write the book Fire and Blood badly, the book is supposed to be written by a Maester, so we will never know if the events in the book are real written by a 3rd person.
The time jumps were too disorienting, especially with some characters being swapped out for different actors and some not. If they needed to do time jumps they should have been BETWEEN seasons not in the middle of the season, that was stupid and lame.
@@johnjoseph6874 yeah well now the continuity is fucked and it seems rushed... Having a super expensive show that feels rushed and with shitty continuity seems worse than dragging shit out to me but I appreciate that others may feel differently so its all good. 🍻🎉
@@HerbstaMagus Oh it definitely is rushed, no doubt about that lol. But only abit, not like GoT s8 rushed. That’s why all it needed was a couple more episodes to flesh out the story abit more. I don’t think it needs a whole season lol. I’d rather have an expensive show feel alittle rushed but exciting than have it be boring with filler. But like you said, to each their own 💯👍
@@johnjoseph6874 its a symptom of the times... Every media company is looking for a quick cash out... Star Wars suffered from same shit. Media corporations now consider a proper development cycle and runtime to be a liability and that is why they aren't able to put together the same kind of quality as decades past... Hopefully that paradigm will change again, the sooner the better!
Maybe they can solve it by him being killed randomly wherever he went since I presume he went into a life of partying. And where there is drinking, situations may happen.
they should have kill him this would make Rhaenyra and Daemon more dangerous and his being alive his dragon should follow him and know where he is because that's how bond works and they wanted do gay could happy ending and this is already off because in grrm world you never get pure happy ending
I wonder if the season would’ve been better if there were two parallel timelines throughout the season instead of time jumps all the time. The scenes from the past would work more as flashbacks and the younger actors could’ve been around for all 10 episodes.
That would’ve been way too jarring. Not that the time jumps weren’t jarring at times, but it works much better to tell a story that spans almost 20 years in order. It also feels more constructed and consise since we’re watching this family slowly turn on each other, watching it escalate throughout the years. If they did flashbacks, it’d feel more like we’re trying to put a puzzle of events together instead of taking in the story.
@@johnjoseph6874 You're probably right, it's just that the time jumps at times ignored events of previous episodes in a way and things were left unsolved (like the Joffrey Lonmouth thing). I also thought the time jumps made the season feel a bit rushed but maybe Carmine is right and more episodes would've solved everything.
hmmm... I believe GRRM did say in his blog that Daeron would appear in S2, though whether that's a good idea or not... I always liked Daeron's neat little arc in the book, of being the courteous clever child who becomes so corrupted in war that he burns down Bitterbridge after they (maybe accidentally?) kill his nephew. But they haven't established his pre-war personality, and they probably don't have time to do so in S2. Plus, he never interacts with any of the other characters major S1 during the Dance, right? His plot will feel pretty disconnected if Ulf and Hugh are its only connecting threads. Yeah... I think I would cut him out. Probably cut out Maelor too, so Bitterbridge never happens and B&C is a choice between little Jaehaerys and Jaehaera?
People will look back at HOTD the same way they see GOT seasons 4-7. Loved by all but a few at the time, hated by all in retrospect. I'm guessing the rose tinted glasses will start coming off for most around season 3.
It’s a 6 out of 10, at best. There’s not a single one great character in the entire series. Viserys was the closest to it thanks to the actor perfomances, but there wasn’t a good enough script except for his last episode. If it wasn’t for the lore fanservice and the dragons, I don’t think I would continue to watch it.
@@marksaunders3723 There’s one great episode and that’s being generous. The script is plain and incoherent with characters doing and saying dumb stuff all the time. Daemon, Viserys, Cole, Alicent, Rhaenys, the gay lover (whatever his name is)… They all literally did beyond dumb stuff that doesn’t make any sense for the sake of “shocking” moments or just lazy plot convenience. I hope at least they finally choose a personality for Daemon next season. I will accept his ridiculous plot armor and his anime fights.
Two more things they needed to establish, 1) the closeness between Daemon, Laena, Rhaenyra and Laenor- because killing Laenor might have served Daemon better than the fakeout. 2) Why would Larys want to kill his family, especially Harwin, the Jaime to Larys''s Tyrion?
Additionally I wished Rhaenys's hair was dark and the Strong boys's parentage a little bit mysterious.
That's my main problem with HotD is there is so little mystery in the story.
@fazediamond5671 Yeah, but a little bit of room for speculation/ ambiguity makes good TV!
To add on to Carmine's hypothetical post-Rhaenyra's wedding episode, would've been fun to see the duel between Daemon and Laena's Braavosi betrothed? I'm kinda shocked that they passed on the opportunity to have a scene where Matt Smith lands a bunch of stinging quips on the poor guy to rile him up enough to demand a duel.
Yes! Definitely! I mean, they showed Daemon killing Rhea Royce (which he most likely didn't do in the book), but they missed him slaughtering the Braavosi guy. And I know that technically neither Daemon nor Corlys broke the guest law... Yet, you know, the Old Gods might have had different opinion on the matter.
Well, GRRM openly said they wanted 13 episodes for season one, but it was considered a dead franchise at the time and they didn’t have enough clout yet with HBO
And then they went down with season 2
Wait, season 2 has less episodes? Man HBO doesn’t know wtf it’s doing.
Sorry. Max….
My point exactly lol
@@cbob213 bruuuh, don't deadname them haha
@@cbob213less episodes more seasons
Dead franchise? Lol
Olivia Cooke (alicent) is acting so well. Shes a stand out
I need just one scene with Aegon and Sunfyre together. At the very least have Aegon mention his beloved dragon. People are amped to see this relationship and their arcs so hopefully they do it right. Sunfyre is the only source of unconditional love for Aegon,I hope they at least acknowledge it!
I guess but he’s going to be off screen a lot. I could count on one hand the amount of times we’d see him. We would only need him at rooks rest, Aegon finding him on Dragonstone, Sunfyre vs Moondancer and Sunfyre eating Rhaenyra. That’s only 4 times. The majority of the time he’s out of the war and healing in private.
I doubt we will even see him fighting Greyghost, they’ll probably just say they saw a gold dragon fighting the wild dragon greyghost which will cause him to go looking for Sunfyre.
And I think people play up their bond a lot. In reality Sunfyre came from Dragonstone and was hatched near the Dragonmont volcano. He was always heading that way even before Aegon got to Dragonstone as he was seen near crab claw point. He went north from Rooks Rest and not south to Kingslanding. Then he landed on Dragonstone and never actually made his way over to Aegon. Instead he stayed in his cave and Aegon had to find him. Aegon didn’t sense he was near, fishermen had to tell him about a golden dragon eating Greyghost.
We know dragons like to reside on Dragonstone when injured or sad. In the book Vhagar, Vermithor, Silverwing and Seasmoke all stayed on Dragonstone when their riders died. The thermal vents give them warmth and energy. It’ll be an ideal place for Sunfyre to heal.
Have you got any other reason why people think they have such a close bond? It’s all I’ve been seeing about him and Sunfyre lately.
So annoyed they had Maelys in the dragon pit coronation scene instead of Sunfyre
he also loved his sibling which was destroyed here
@@joshuaadams6565 what’s with all the mental gymnastics? You can not like Aegon and Sunfyre, I would understand that more than the wall of text trying to deny the existence of the bond between Aegon and Sunfyre when it’s clear to everyone even people that rightfully dislike Aegon have to admit and acknowledge that the two of them go through some extraordinary events together. Also you want more proof of their bond? Aegon cries once in the book, it’s not for his dead children, his dead brothers, nor his dead wife, it’s for his dragon that just perished and was the only source of unconditional love for the short reigning king.
has it really been a year?
time flies
Easy thing to do with Laena and Daemon in the hypothetical 5.5: Laena Claiming Vhagar! It would be an exciting thing and a great way to introduce Vhagar, would have shown their developing relationship and would have fleshed out how/why Laena claimed Vhagar.
Have it so that she needed a dragon rider to help her get to Vhagar - her new nesting point is too dangerous to access by ship or horseback, but her mother’s forbidden her from trying because again, this is Vhagar. She needed someone who wouldn’t be afraid of pissing off Rhaenys, which rules out the only other two dragon riders at this point.
This would show off Laena’s defiant nature, her kindness towards Vhagar (‘she shouldn’t be so alone’) and also her cunning in goading Daemon into helping her. All of these little things that would get us attached to this character so that 10 years later with a different actress, we still miss and mourn her.
And if they didn’t want to repeat Aemond’s scene in episode 6, just cut the episode off before her flying Vhagar, just leave it on her marvelling at their new connection.
What to do with Daemon and Laena in your hypothetical episode 5.5? The book stuff. Have them fall in love (or lust, whatever) but have her betrothal stand in the way of a marriage. Daemon dueling the son of the former Sealord would provide the action set piece for the episode. They even already set up the betrothal in episode 4 I think, so this plot is not coming completely out of nowhere.
Perhaps the episode could end with Daemon flying Laena to Vhagar, hinting to her claiming the dragon and hopefully making her riding Vhagar in the next episode more impactful.
Hotd is more biased where characters should be more grey
I've heard a rumor that 'blood & cheese' is going to be an accident, and honestly if that's the case then this show is revisionist history, Rhaenerya was called 'Maegor with tits' for a reason and its not simply because of the unreliable narrators but her direct actions that resulted in the deaths of tens of thousands. This show is already biased towards the black faction (even some in the fandom are excusing/justifying the horrible things Rhaenerya and Daemon has done so far) and I honestly think they'll give certain actions/ideas that Rhaenerya orders in the source material to other characters as a way to absolve her of any wrongdoing. For example they'll have Corlys propose the blockade of Kings Landing which causes a famine.
Imo it was a great success. They achieved what was realisticakky possible and far exceeded my personal expectations of this show... I'm excited for season2!!!
In the extra episode leading up to the Vaemon petition, it’d be cool to show Rhaenys capably running Driftmark while Corlys is away.
That'd be a good B plot
They missed opportunities with sending letters back and forth for the grand maester conspiracies.
Like, start a scene with one queen dictating a letter that is all polite and nice, and cut halfway through to the other queen with a maester dictating the other half of the message with a different tone
They did this but through Otto in episode 4 ( letter from Otto's brother about Corlys's plans)
One small thing that I'm surprised they didn't do is add a bit more lore to the egg that Daemon takes in episode 2... They added the idea that it was the cradle egg picked out for Rhaenyra's dead baby brother Baelon, which I thought was quite clever, because then you can have that egg be the one that hatches into Sunfyre, so that its still Rhaenyra's brother's egg. The egg looked kinda dark gold so it does kinda fit. Considering the fate of Rhaenyra and Sunfyre, I figured by series' end this would increase the rewatch-value of S1E2 by a lot, to see Rhaenyra pluck that particular dragon egg from Daemon and give it to Otto. But I don't think they ever made the connection between Sunfyre and that egg?
Sunfyre would have already been hatched by that point it was Aegons cradle egg, I believe it’s the same age as him.
@@TheTrollingMaster-xr9el In both book and show, the Daemon-Mysaria egg incident takes place a year or two before Aegon is born, I think? Its the episode 2 Dragonstone bridge confrontation that I'm thinking of, not the one in episode 10.
Sunfyre is a bit older than Aegon and was born on Dragonstone. Aegon bonded with Sunfyre when he was young. Aegon, Helaena and Aemond all had not been given craddle eggs and had to claim dragons.
Shitposting about Aemond as a weeb edgelord was honestly more fun than the show itself
Have a hard time taking anything someone says about the accuracy of the show vs. the book material, who can't even get the sex right of the dragon they're talking about. I mean, if everything has to be exactly as it is in the source material, then people discussing the topic should not be making such simple mistakes. Tsk tsk.
Aemond is my fav 💚 💚 💚
RedTeamReview knows how to make a catchy thumbnail😅😅 #teamaemond
Wait a minute. Is Preston's little sweet Robin dude trying to catch Carmines Haunter? They've had those things for years and I just now realized.
The deleted scenes were really great, they should make an edit and add those scenes they are really great.
I do desperately wish they’d had another one or two episodes, as much as I like what we got.
To be honest, I'm surprised that they chose to adapt the Dance of the Dragons at all. The story from the source material isn't that great (the ways dragons and armies do and don't matter, the character arcs that don't feel complete - it kinda feels like S8, tbh) and the confusing character names and family trees make it really hard for the audience to keep everyone straight. I think just about every other era of Targaryen history would've been more compelling TV.
Hard disagree.
Bad take
What can I say? I really like Dunk and Egg. I think it would make for really compelling TV contrasting all the reigns of Daeron I, Baelor, Viserys II, Aegon IV and Daeron II, plus Elaena is my fav Targ. I think the Conquest is made for TV: its episodic, but not too repetitive, and there's some really powerful moments.
With the Dance... I HATE the way Rhaenys the QWNW dies - does not feel like a completion of her arc. I could not keep track of which army was where, and which army mattered, etc. The death of Syrax felt like lazy writing. There's enough hints that Criston Cole is the father of Jace, so I would've liked it if he was a bit more involved in Jace's death. No idea how it could've been accomplished, but I would've liked to see Criston and Rhaenyra reunite at some point during the Dance. The only saving grace is that the history is supposed to be confused and contradictory - perhaps there's a more compelling narrative in there, if you untangle the thread - but they're way too tangled; I don't know where to begin.
Also with the Dance, where do you end the final season??? There isn't a great final moment. There's so many points when I felt "oh, well that's it - war's over. No way the other side can recover from this." But they just kept fighting, and it ruined the finality of it all when the war does stop. Spoilers ahead:
What do you make that final scene? Putting Aegon III on the throne? That doesn't feel like a resolution to the conflict that's been built up. End with the marriage of Aegon and Jaehaera, with a bittersweet "marrying two extremely traumatized kids isn't great, but at least it means peace as both halves of the House of the Dragon are united" sort of vibe? Cuz that ending would be completely undercut when Jaehaera dies. Do you show the deaths of Alicent and Corlys, end where the book does with the end of the regency? Keep going, and show all the feats and foibles of Aegon III, Viserys II, their children and grandchildren, and end with the First Blackfyre Rebellion?
Why is your profile picture a haunter giving the bird?
Idk if I can give Ryan Condal more credit than GRRM lol. I thought F&B events were better
I still think they softened Rhaenyra and Allicent far too much. They are meant to be the two most hardened bitch queens in Westerosi history.
I’m looking forward to more Aemond though. And I’m desperate to know who’s playing Daeron and Cregan!!!
then again, we’re only one season in
Men are bad. That's the plot
To be fair I like the idea of them starting soft and then toughening up more and more as the war takes everything from them
@@schwaben4120 yeah I feel it’s too early to judge their entire characterizations considering the show isn’t over, we shall see
Tom Taylor is gonna play Cregan :) still no news on Daeron tho…
I think season 1 should've been 8 episodes focused solely on the early years with the younger cast. Season 2 jumps ahead 10 years, being 8 episodes, ending with the Blood and Cheese event in the finale. Seasons 3 & 4 are 10 episodes each diving full into the Dance of the Dragons.
I know the pacing would probably have been too long winded and taken too much time to build up to the main conflict, but honestly I think it would've served the characters better. We wouldn't have got so rushed with everything and had some odd events happen like Cole just murdering Joffrey at the wedding, which I find the most jarring and really think it doesn't work in the show at all. We could've had the tension mounting between those two at the ceremony and then had Cole kill him in the tourney where it makes sense, if there were more episodes to flesh it all out.
But otherwise yeah, I think 12 episodes for season 1 with an extra in the early years and later years may have worked well enough too.
Really like that episode idea.
homie, you've been subbed to me for 7 years, let me know if you want a discord invite.
0:30 - At the time when season 1 was airing I actually said that "House of the Dragon" needed 13 episodes. I think three more episodes would've been best. 6 in the past, 7 in the present.
I would have liked to find out in what way Baela and Rhaena are different.
One has a dragon the other does not.
They are not twins here
Mild spoiler: Baela is more of a tomboy and outspoken and Rhaena is more feminine and calmer. They don't play a big role in the Dance, because their dragons are either too young and small or not yet existing.
Yea I agree the pacing was too fast they should’ve had 12 episodes or ended the season with Viserys’s death so that Harwin, Laena, & the kids of alicent & rhaenyra were more fleshed out especially Heleana & at least 1 scene with her Dreamfyre & Aegon & Sunfyre
When you realize that Ryan Condel was supposed to do Rings of power, I don't know if we should be happy that we got good house of the dragon season or bad for getting a shit lord of the rings show.
wait what!?!? are you serious? i looked it up and couldnt find any info on that
The main issue with house of the dragon imo is that it doesn't give you a reason to care about any of the factions. There was no fan tribalism like with that you saw in G0T. A few extra episodes might have helped but they wasted the first couple of episodes by not giving us a reason to believe Rhaenyra would be a good or interesting ruler/is capable of playing the game
I think the point of the series is that they are all shit, unlike GoT with its good Starks and bad Lannisters.
@@Ouranyama In the case of OG G0T you could reasonably assert that Tywin winning would be better for the realm as a whole. In House of the Dragon i have no clue what anyone believes aside from Rhaenerya not liking sexism
@@tornado4708 I mean that debating possible geopolitical outcomes is what made G0T very compelling and the quality of that discussion isn't there for HOTD. That's largely because HOTD has weak characters.
Time jumps and weird casting choices stopped this show from being epc
What weird casting choices?
yep not every people were happy with the whole going from the young to the old actors part casting-wise
@@johnnyskinwalker4095 The older actors were cast first. They're the ones who will be carrying the show from now on. The younger actors were cast much later. Emma D'Arcy and Olivia Cooke were always Rhaenyra and Alicent.
@@marksaunders3723 I know all that.
I feel like it was a shame that they didn't use the different seasons to show the passage of time
I hope you guys are planning on covering wheel of time season 2. I thought season 1 was pretty mid but season 2 has been much better so far now that the characters are established.
It's a good show in comparison to trash, but put it beside early GoT and it's bad, really bad. Ryans boyish and simplified take on this story is depressing.
LOL No. What an absolute bullshit comment.
Daemon and Laena on a Grand Tour of the Free Cities. I’ve thought much about this.
make that hypothetical DD season 1 vid
@@OfficialRedTeamReview oh it’s been on the to do list for months. Huge backlog
I'm already missing the show, honestly. How about you?
I felt this show was really missing the comedic relief that tyrion brought to got
Yeah, I was confused about which characters had cocks and which didn't. I really needed the half man to keep me updated.
And Bron, Ser davos, Pod and arya and hot pie and i could go on allot of funny people in GOT
I think a lot of the issues with the show were due to source-material constraints. Like, episode 2 ends with this moment of "oh sh*t, Viserys chose the wrong child bride and now his actions have consequences. Daemon and Corlys are teaming up." But... this doesn't ever lead to consequences for Viserys? Daemon and Corlys attack the Stepstones, which is a war that Viserys supports. I guess the victory makes Daemon feel entitled to marry Rhaenyra, which makes Viserys rush to marry her off, so the move has consequences for Rhaenyra? Plus the bonds between Daemon and the Velaryons are strengthened as they become battle brothers, which is a consequence felt by Otto and the Greens?
Viserys choosing to marry Alicent instead of Leana is what caused the division between Rhaenrya and Alicent, which was a huge factor in the Dance of Dragons beginning. Same can be said for the strength and bond between House Targaryen and Velaryon being weakened, but he was still able to salvage that alliance by choosing to marry Rhaenrya off to Leanor. So I can understand saying his choice not having consequences there, but they definitely do have consequences when it comes to the destruction of his family.
Hey nothing to do with the video but when i click on your channel it redirects me to your secondary channel. I don't know if its just me
"Tweleve isn't an even number"
"Ten's a prime number"
Carmine you need to go back to do maths at school bro
ten is, yes, but i was saying in the context of having 2 episodes but they likely wouldn't go for it cuz 12 isn't a prime number. 13 is but HBO hasn't done 13 episodes for a show in years
@@OfficialRedTeamReview alright bro
10 is divisible by 2and 5 still tho
Is there a comprehensive Preston video on the plotholes and badness of _Fire & Blood?_
Vahgarrr is a her!!!!
Grandma Vhagar
Adaptations are called "adaptations" for a reason lol. The changes made from page to screen don't have to be 1:1 and a completely recreation, *as long as the changes do justice to the lore and make sense.*
This is why it's important to have showrunners, writers and a director that truly understand the content that they are adapting. Those in charge don't necessarily have to be fans of the novels, but as long as they understand the story, the characters, where the story is heading, how they get there and the impact of events and characters in the story.
It's fine if they change something in a way that makes sense and is plausible to the world they're in, as well as cuts the fat of the novel so we get the visual impact of those changes, it's fine.
With everything happening, HOTD was actually an amazing show and they really put in effort to bring ASOIAF back to the pedigree early GOT once had. Unless you're Joe Rogan and wanted more dragons, HOTD was pretty great. The only issue I had was the constant little timeskips throughout every couple of episodes, as they were essentially speedrunning the story. The first 5 episodes practically act like a prolonged prologue, and I understand from a storytelling aspect as to why we needed to know these little nuance and moments in the story that will further develop in the story. The pacing of each episode was great, the directors for each episode knew how to pace their episodes, yet the time between each episode could be jarring for someone who wasn't familiar with Fire and Blood.
Overall, House of the Dragon was great and it was amazing to revisit ASOIAF. You guys already mentioned some of my personal pet peeves, like Daemon taking Felix Felicis and basically fighting off Craghas Drahar' army by himself and surviving. Harwin Strong being shortchanged in the story and not showing us the relationship and development between Harwin and Rhaenyra. He was essentially a shadow husband to Rhaenyra for quite a long time and they grew a special bond, yet we never seen it happen and Rhaenyra immediately got over Harwin' death.
I sincerely hope that we get flashbacks and explanations as the show goes on to things that the showrunners failed to deliver in the first season. I'm guessing that was their intention, cut the fat and give us what we need for now so that they can delve further and revisit those little character developments. They had a single chance to hook a major audience into the show, with a wider narrative at stake, they most likely decided to focus on the main plot points first and feed us those subplots later, which I don't mind at all.
Either way, HOTD wasn't Game of Thrones in it's prime, yet it was still an amazing ASOIAF show. It was a return to form for high caliber content when compared to the latter seasons of Thrones and I am excited for more!
8.5/10 IMO.
The lack of developed relationships highlighted in the books was a real miss, Rhaenyra and Laena, Daemon and Corelys (we saw some of it) Rhaena and Rhaenyra etc. the bonds the dragons had as well
Will Preston ever stop misgendering -or rather, incorrectly sexing- Vhagar? Find out mext time on House of the Dragon!
Whoa!!! The wheel of time has CAUSED PLOT HOLES!!! A lot of them. It’s basically season 8 of GoT without the production value… please don’t hype up that garbage pile. It’s absolutely an abomination!
14:00 More time given to the worst accent/delivery on the entire show?
Worst accent but, so far, nothing to do. Why hire this person and give her no storyline
My biggest concern is episode 9 and how every episode has a weird scene in it that feels kind of wrong.
My only big problem I can think of is how Rhaenys appeared in the coronation, I think that goes against how well she remembered by the people as the Queen who never was. I think a theme constantly was how she would have been a great queen, but at the same time what she said to Alicent was perfect in my opinion and even better comming from her. Also wish they never removed her scene with Baela in the last episode that was another great scene for both characters.
a year??
George R.R. Martin did not write the book Fire and Blood badly, the book is supposed to be written by a Maester, so we will never know if the events in the book are real written by a 3rd person.
weell....
I always wondered how Lena got Vegar!
The time jumps were too disorienting, especially with some characters being swapped out for different actors and some not. If they needed to do time jumps they should have been BETWEEN seasons not in the middle of the season, that was stupid and lame.
That would’ve dragged the story out way too much. What they needed were a couple of extra episodes to fill in some more story.
@@johnjoseph6874 yeah well now the continuity is fucked and it seems rushed... Having a super expensive show that feels rushed and with shitty continuity seems worse than dragging shit out to me but I appreciate that others may feel differently so its all good. 🍻🎉
@@HerbstaMagus Oh it definitely is rushed, no doubt about that lol. But only abit, not like GoT s8 rushed. That’s why all it needed was a couple more episodes to flesh out the story abit more. I don’t think it needs a whole season lol. I’d rather have an expensive show feel alittle rushed but exciting than have it be boring with filler. But like you said, to each their own 💯👍
@@johnjoseph6874 its a symptom of the times... Every media company is looking for a quick cash out... Star Wars suffered from same shit. Media corporations now consider a proper development cycle and runtime to be a liability and that is why they aren't able to put together the same kind of quality as decades past... Hopefully that paradigm will change again, the sooner the better!
Leonor death is silly. What about his dragon?
Maybe they can solve it by him being killed randomly wherever he went since I presume he went into a life of partying. And where there is drinking, situations may happen.
they should have kill him this would make Rhaenyra and Daemon more dangerous and his being alive his dragon should follow him and know where he is because that's how bond works and they wanted do gay could happy ending and this is already off because in grrm world you never get pure happy ending
I wonder if the season would’ve been better if there were two parallel timelines throughout the season instead of time jumps all the time. The scenes from the past would work more as flashbacks and the younger actors could’ve been around for all 10 episodes.
That would’ve been way too jarring. Not that the time jumps weren’t jarring at times, but it works much better to tell a story that spans almost 20 years in order. It also feels more constructed and consise since we’re watching this family slowly turn on each other, watching it escalate throughout the years. If they did flashbacks, it’d feel more like we’re trying to put a puzzle of events together instead of taking in the story.
@@johnjoseph6874 You're probably right, it's just that the time jumps at times ignored events of previous episodes in a way and things were left unsolved (like the Joffrey Lonmouth thing). I also thought the time jumps made the season feel a bit rushed but maybe Carmine is right and more episodes would've solved everything.
I see Aemond, i click
It just him me that's the kid from the last kingdom
he was in it, yeah
I'm interested for everyone's opinion if Ryan Condal and friends should cut daeron the daring?
hmmm... I believe GRRM did say in his blog that Daeron would appear in S2, though whether that's a good idea or not... I always liked Daeron's neat little arc in the book, of being the courteous clever child who becomes so corrupted in war that he burns down Bitterbridge after they (maybe accidentally?) kill his nephew. But they haven't established his pre-war personality, and they probably don't have time to do so in S2. Plus, he never interacts with any of the other characters major S1 during the Dance, right? His plot will feel pretty disconnected if Ulf and Hugh are its only connecting threads. Yeah... I think I would cut him out. Probably cut out Maelor too, so Bitterbridge never happens and B&C is a choice between little Jaehaerys and Jaehaera?
People will look back at HOTD the same way they see GOT seasons 4-7.
Loved by all but a few at the time, hated by all in retrospect. I'm guessing the rose tinted glasses will start coming off for most around season 3.
LOL No.
It’s a 6 out of 10, at best. There’s not a single one great character in the entire series. Viserys was the closest to it thanks to the actor perfomances, but there wasn’t a good enough script except for his last episode. If it wasn’t for the lore fanservice and the dragons, I don’t think I would continue to watch it.
Nope. At least 8 out of 10 and there at least five great episodes.
@@marksaunders3723 There’s one great episode and that’s being generous.
The script is plain and incoherent with characters doing and saying dumb stuff all the time. Daemon, Viserys, Cole, Alicent, Rhaenys, the gay lover (whatever his name is)… They all literally did beyond dumb stuff that doesn’t make any sense for the sake of “shocking” moments or just lazy plot convenience.
I hope at least they finally choose a personality for Daemon next season. I will accept his ridiculous plot armor and his anime fights.
@@jonathanm9069 Could not disagree more with everything you've said. Sorry.
You couldn’t pay me to care about Fire and Blood or that show.
So wtf are you commenting then? LOL
@marksaunders3723 riiiight?
House of the dragon is cool but its not game of thrones.
some of your ideas are kinda shitty and fillery . Thank god you are not the show runners
Yo the wheel of ti e writers are not doing this lol. The Witcher is more faithful to the source material