I love the fact that they managed to bring back a deleted scene for the first season and find a way to integrate it into the story so that it makes sense; one of the strong points of this show and why it’s one my favorites
@@joevictor53 The Raina and Quinn scene. I thought it was a new scene but that's the only scene that has the possibility of being a deleted scene from the first season.
Big Mo Logan Yeah I found out after I posted the comment. That's amazing though. I love this show so much. I've been rewatching it lately to prepare for season 7 and it works so well IMO. It works a lot better than if it was an actual season 1 scene. Then it would've felt like they just abandoned the storyline but as a flashback it's perfect
Not sure how it's so hard for Chris to understand that Creel was told Talbot was shot in the head by Shield and shown video to prove it. They're using his loyalty to him to get back at Shield. If he knew Talbot was being tortured or used he would never have sided with them to begin with.
Khayman77 don’t forget that Creel was brainwashed and used by Hydra for an unknown amount of time. He probably has some serious trust issues and only really trusts Talbot, since he was the one that helped him. He was used by Hydra, then SHIELD was after and eventually caught him. It’s only natural that he has some serious issues with trusting anyone other than Talbot.
And the reason why it is my favourite...you never know where it will go next, but wherever it will be, you will always think "I should have seen that coming".
I agree with Chris that the team is falling apart this season. It’s like the big bad villain this season ends up being themselves - they are fighting each other and their own attachments with each other - more than any of these other outside threats. It an interesting departure from the other seasonal villains imo
If I remember correctly the last scene was originally the post-credits scene of the end of the first season but finally decided not to use it, the most incredible thing is that they managed to integrate it into the story. It is also good to know that this season is intended as the end of the entire series so it has things of the whole series
tomas hm props to the show for not only saving it, but being able to work the scene into another plot twist (there being more than one person in the Gravitonium). That’s the impressive thing
If either Jemma or Fitz die, the loop would be broken because they still have to build the time machine. In theory they could just shoot themselves, but they would never actually do that though. From what the characters have experienced in S3 it makes sense why they would believe time is fixed. Don't let time travel in other shows or movies cloud your judgement. Time is an illusion. Their theory is much more likely than one changing timeline...
Also, if Jemma, Fitz, or Yoyo dies, the loop would be broken, but no one can confirm it would be for the better. They'd fail to build the time machine, the earth would be destroyed, and there'd be no second/infinite chance for the world to be saved.
@@Thehardtruth69 Why not just do something basic like tell Daisy to get a haircut so it doesn't match the footage she saw. That way you can prove that some changes can be made.
@@defrostedrobot77 Haha, best comment. But true. Time can be changed in many ways, nothing is fixed, the only problem is how to change it so you get what you want. ;)
@@defrostedrobot77 Clearly, Daisy would then have to go on an impromptu mission where she will have to appear with her long hair and therefore will be forced to wear a wig.
@@bifa5414 True, but I would at least try it out so I know it's even possible and work from there so I don't end up tricking my friend into a cell for no reason. In fact, why not tell Daisy about Deke being their grandson so you can maybe convince her about your theories. Yeah, this season really makes me mad.
Yeah Creel not dying in that scene was also a big surprise to me when it aired 😂 His powers are so cool its a shame they used him so rarely the past seasons. Jemma was tripping with that experiment but theyre all getting more andf more desperate to change the future so tensions are rising
@@Pir-o to be fair, AoS writers may not have been privy to how they were writing Endgame with how secretive it is... as we know that a tie in was hinted at but wasn't accurate. I'd also love to see someone reconcile how Robin's powers work... as it looks like she did see multiple timelines and Fitz said as much.
@@datguy3581 That was never Fitz' theory. That was Yoyo's belief that she embedded in Jemma's mind. By changing their present their future becomes uncertain.
Shield is a spy organization. Mack betrayed the team for fake shield, yoyo was Daisy's person on the inside when she went rogue, everyone has made mistakes and there are levels. How quickly they forget how fitz was the only one protecting the newly inhuman daisy. It doesnt excuse fitz, but being the shield that protects comes with sacrifices, and hard choices.
And the thing is too that they did chose to be the shields. They didn’t take anyone else on the mission with them, only the ones, who they knew, until the timeline is broken, are invincible. So they really went out there to protect the others. If they succeed, hopefully the timeline had been changed or if they died the timeline had been changed. They were trying to be selfless and clever in a convoluted way but selfless none the less. Only they failed. Because they couldn’t escape their true nature of protecting one another. When each of them was threatened they couldn’t help but be the shield for each other. And I think with all the unknown variables and them not all being 100% certain if they were right, that this choice to protect is justified. Because while death would break the time loop they don’t know for sure whether or not their death would actually make it worse. So they didn’t want to gleefully jump to one of their deaths Just in case. And ahhh it was complicated and everyone’s point of view is so valid. I will standby what these three did though as being what they thought was right with their good silly beautifully well meaning hearts. 💕❤️ (Tho yoyo killing the girl was much different as that was her individual choice not the three of theirs. So it’s not as linked to the above statement)
Daisy just wants the most capable man for the job, Coulson, to take over. He can reassess the information and even look at Fitz’s bases when he returns. Unfortunately, Simmons didn’t relay that information to the team. Also, notice how the 3 least experienced agents are the ones who go rogue.
I understand the confusion of the timeline but I believe Endgame gave us the answer. When Bruce Banner was talking to the ancient one about the time stone, he said if the Time stone was returned (after the avengers used it) at the same time that it was taken - The timeline wouldn't change. Coulson and the crew returned from the future but NOT at the same time from when they were taken (at the diner) hence a NEW timeline branched off. Therefore they do have the chance of changing the Earth from being destroyed. Back to the Future theories don't work (also explained in Endgame). Agents of Normies rule.
Nah, it's the same timeline...it's basically a time loop in which no matter what they did, the same future came to pass until the one time when they manage to change the future and yes, THAN the new timeline branched off. So there are now two timelines, one in which they rescued the earth and one in which they didn't, but managed to give it a second chance.
I don't know if you guys have finished the season yet, but after you watch 5x22, you should go back and watch the first few minutes of 5x01! Trust me, it'll make sense.
22:50 - That was a perfect moment for Suraj to use that LOST metaphor with dropping rocks vs dropping boulders into a river. Changing small things won't work since you not changing anything, you just end up causing the thing you trying to prevent. You would have to do something RLY extreme and crazy to break the loop and create a whole different timeline. Thats why half of the team subsribes to the theory that they can't be killed. Cause either: A) they can't be killed so they can do whatever they want (and hopefully that will end up with them doing something new that breaks the loop) B) they die and still change the loop win win situation. The logic is there.
Oh man... sometimes your logic is not logical at all. They are "invincible" because they haven't change the timeline YET. That doesn't mean that they can't change it later down the line or that they should stop trying to change it. And if one of the three would die (for example Jemma in her experiment), they would have proven that they changed the timeline and already accomplished their goal. Also you can't know what will change the timeline (if it is at all possible). For example what if you trying to prevent the end of the world in truth causes the end of the world? So do nothing or try to change something? Impossible choice, because you don't know what will cause the end of the world and you desperatly need more information about it. In a sense I agree with Jemma here. They have to at least try.
Just because they would change the timeline it would not mean that the Earth will be saved - that's why their theory is stupid. For example destroy all quinjets and from now use only helicopters, footage will Daisy will be different, you have changed the timeline but Earth will still get destroyed. Also just because they can "not" die doesn't mean that their actions won't kill someone else or cause bigger problem. If they really believes that they death can save the world then why they don't shot themselfes RIGHT NOW? You know why? Because Trio is being hypocrical. - FS are saying that they can't die but as soon as their lifes are at risk they decide to repair the machine that literally leads to the end of the world - or how Fitz is just basically like Jemma > Earth > Daisy (he risked Daisy's life to save the city but now is too afraid to risk Jemma's life to save the world)
If Jemma had died in this experiment, they would have broken the loop, sure. But that's not their goal. Their goal is to prevent the earth from cracking. I guess they might get a morale boost from knowing that they can. But also, Jemma would be dead and couldn't help solve the actual problem anymore.
That1Guy Exiting the time loop and stopping the end of the world aren’t the same thing though. It could still end but Simmons would just be dead and the world would never be saved.
I mean Rana and pat are on fitz‘s side; but honestly that was one of the strong points of the second half this season that the conflict within the team created conflict between the viewers , I’ve seen a lot of discussions about who’s wrong and who’s right when this first aired and still do in reaction channels
Rida yep I’m curious to see their sides on three things (spoilers ahead): 1 Yo-yo killing ruby and 2 Daisy vs Yo-Yo 3 may smashing the odium and the whole coulson situation in general
@@animusswtor4822 Having some debate isn't inherently bad but the way the show just kind of sidesteps all the issues by the end feels real cheap. Like they built up all of these conflicts and then it gets wrapped up way too neatly and conveniently through methods I have doubt would work as well as we're told.
Daisy has been tortured and violated by some version of Fitz twice: once in the Framework and again in real life. Every reaction she has at this point in the story is extremely valid and totally understandable. The fact that she can even stand to see his face anymore is a goddamned miracle. Nothing about Daisy's choices in this episode were unreasonable. Deke is not a SHIELD agent and does not need to be on missions unless absolutely necessary. She didn't tell them not to talk to Fitz and she didn't ignore Fitz' intel/contributions. Daisy told Simmons to get the intel from Fitz and they would review it and decide on an action plan once she and the rest of the team returned. Also, contrary to some people's beliefs, Daisy didn't lock Fitz up for "no reason." The man had a psychotic break, beat Deke into unconsciousness, set a robot on Mack and Simmons and Yoyo, then attacked and performed torturous and unwilling surgery on Daisy while holding Simmons and Deke at gunpoint via a robot. Frankly, Daisy did the bare minimum in locking Fitz up. He really should've been completely removed from the base and placed in a controlled and secure psychiatric ward until he could receive legitimate treatment. The only reason they couldn't is because they were in the middle of a world ending crisis so she did the best she could. Simmons and Yoyo were completely out of pocket for releasing him less than a day after he lost it and violently attacked everyone.
If they would really believe in this then they would put a bullet into their skull. Episode 17 confirms how hypocrite Trio is and as soon as their lifes were at risk FS decided to put their own lifes above saving the planet by fixing the machine.
@@ShieldVids Only the people they "really" care about though. Yoyo is happy to let Coulson die. Fitz was willing to sacrifice Daisy if necessary. They only care about keeping "their" person alive so it's still kinda hypocritical lol.
If the future can be changed, they can die. FitzSimmons and Yo Yo are being stupid. Also yeah. The invincible trio destroyed trust in the team. Daisy and Mack have no reason to trust them anymore. Daisy was being a pretty good leader. She is carrying out a mission well and organizing them. It’s not her fault that Simmons is acting stupid.
Saving the world and changing the timeline are two separate things. Jemma dying doesn’t save the world. It just prevents them from discovering time travel.
Dagenspear if they’re dead, they proved the future can be changed and broke the loop. However, they then wouldn’t be around to stop the end of the worlds. It would just prevent them from going back in time and getting a second chance. The world would stay broken forever.
it is funny as hell how much hes trying to argue that its the same timeline. Avengers EndGame they literally explain that its not like Back to the Future and he uses it as an example on how it works in the MCU. Im not mad its just funny as hell lol
XxHrallundeadrogueXx The MCU has multiple time travel happenings, between this, Endgame, and the Runaways. They’re all different forms of time travel so all have different rules.
Because gravity is the weakest of the four forces, weaker than electrical or nuclear. It needs a high mass to not be negligible. He didn't said anything wrong
They really have a hard time understanding the “invincibility” argument for some reason. It’s pretty simple because there are only two possible results that could occur: 1. They don’t die because doing so would change the future so they have freedom to engage in more risky behavior in an attempt to change the future. 2. They do die, thus breaking the loop and changing the future. It’s literally a win-win scenario.
3. They do die, and the world ends anyway. The only thing their deaths guarantee is Yo-Yo and Deke don't exist in the future, not that the world doesn't end
wow guys. 2 episodes in one day. Quinn and Raina flashback. Deleted scene from S1. Ruby is going crazy, more than she already was. Those 3 don’t know what they’re doing.
The logic behind their theory is, they only have to change one thing but they dont know what that is, so they'll act like they are invincible (cause they kinda are if they dont find the thing that needs to change) and if that recklessness gets them killed or something close to that, then that means they succeded and changed the future.
@@kenanburakkaplan4087 Regardless, the showrunners didn't know how the rules of Endgame's time travel would work. They probably didn't even know about the snap either, because AoS directly references Thanos coming to Earth, as per the premise of Infinity War, but no one in the show gets dusted. I think they also gave up trying to connect the show to the MCU, because season 6 doesn't mention any of the movies at all.
Im with Chris, Fitzsimmons and yoyo annoyed me and they used to be my fav characters but now after everything and what they did to mack and daisy I can't look at them the same
A double droplet of Shield as we hear the inner voice of Talbot Gravitonium fully returns to roost as Creel finds his mind conflicted by the voices of Hall and Quinn Creel doesn't know about Talbot, which ends up being key to escape, man's good at heart You argued about invincibility last episode and this is the extremism on display, the idea that if they do die then the timeline changes and they've done their job but if not then they cannot be harmed until after Academy Award Nominee at that point too, it was a deleted scene they kept all the way back from season 1
Hahaha The time travel shenanigans are causing the same rifts and disagreements on the Normies couch that are happening on the Shield team. Can't wait for #yoyodidnothingwrong
@18:48 like they see they make it to the future but that’s what you need to change to not go to the future where the earth broke so everything your doing now is going towards that and not changing it
If you guys are confused about how time travel works in the MCU, then you should really check out this film called Avengers: Endgame. Also, do the Normies ever look back at the notes they take? A lot of questions they have were already answered.
@@David-bf2cg I don't know, man. I think playing Russian Roulette with a third of a chance to fucking die is pretty psychotic. If you're trying to change the future, then you can't really rely on the information from that future like that.
Honestly, to work with shield, especially being on coulsons team, basically almost requires you to be a psychopath by now; with all they’ve been through no one is completely 100% sane; entering spoiler territory caution below fitz with the doctor; may hellbend on keeping Coulson Alive smashing the odium; yoyo and jemma with their invincible stick; coulson making a deal with a literal devil; daisy digging up a f’ing corpse Yeah I don’t know 🤷♂️
She was a servant for couple of days and she couldn't hear a thing. Thats all. You want real trauma? What about being stuck alone in space with no chances of going back. THAT had to be way scarier than being covered in gold, serving some alien overlords.
19:09 "Have you guys seen Back to the Future?!" - Nahid, Normies "So Back to the Future is a bunch of bullshit." - Scott Lang, Avengers Endgame Then again, that movie takes place in a different timeline/reality than AoS.
actually we do not have confirmation that it exists in a different timeline as of yet... it's still pretty up in the air, and even if they are in different timelines, we don't know where/how the timeline split occurred yet either...
@@EvelynMadisonFaust If you've seen any part of Season 6 then you'd know they aren't in the same timeline anymore. My head canon is that Thor did kill Thanos in Wakanda in this one.
@12:08 it’s like they don’t know what there futureselfs did ahd they probably did this to and this is something going towards the earth exploded and maybe if they didn’t do this it will be different
@20:46 well those 3 are on this yolo life cause they know they survive the future so they are working to get to that place cause they know they survive that’s not saving the world that’s just following the loop of the earth breaking
CHRIS the loop is caused by the world ending. It has no connection to whether Fitz, Jemma or Yoyo live or die. Them dying doesn't prevent the world ending. Remember that in one instance of the loop Jemma was actually dead.
During this timeline. the Avengers were broken up and it was leading to the Snap. So Iron Man was heading to space with Dr. Strange and Spiderman, and Cap. America was heading to Wakanda. They had their hands were full. Then the Snap happened
I have a problem with the volume every week where I have my laptop speaker and the video volume at 100% and the sound still not that loud, I hope they fix it in the future
these last few episodes were the first time that I fully and only agree with Chris. Someone's intentions can be as good as they want, but if they do an improper surgical procedure on me without my consent, you are no longer my friend and I cannot trust you. Period point blank. I can understand why you did it and even agree with it, but you to me are no longer my damn friend coz who knows what else you can do and when. Also yes them trying to change the future inherently counters the fact that they think they are invincible because of the future. The only reason that could make sense is because different people feel differently Skye and Yoyo want to change it, May and Fitz don't think you can etc.
If Fitz couldn't stop robots, then he could've tried to comfort Daisy during operation, make it psychologically less painful, sooth her like "I'm sorty I have to do this. Robots won't stop until we're through. But I'll try to do it as safe and less painful as possible"
They have to do what they have to do, to save humanity. Feelings will be hurt but they will need to get over it. Chris- Mack don't trust that Yoyo can go back to work. He is just holding her back and controlling her life. That is wrong too.
One thing is controlling, the other thing is taking care of your suicidal friend. And doing what needs to be done ≠ do anything you want without remorse
Speaking of 12 Monkeys, the TV show is actually AMAZING. Y'all should react to it (on second thought.... maybe not.... y'all would be soooooooo confused).
Dagenspear But saving Coulson doesn’t necessarily mean ending the world. They have no information on the context. Future Yo Yo is vague and unreliable. They’re in a loop listening to her over and over again. Plus Coulson had to put the pieces together. Discovering a way to save Coulson doesn’t bring the world closer to destruction. There is very poor justification for sacrificing SHIELD’s greatest asset because of a theory. In the end, Daisy saved the world because she tried to save Coulson.
If it was left to Daisy's own choices, or even Mac and Melinda, nothing would really change. That is the problem. If they were at least open to listening to the rest, they would have gone with Fitzsimmons and Yoyo, and would have saved the day and could have change everything. Also you misunderstand their motivations. Yoyo said this before, she is either invincible or she dies and the future changes. Simmons wants her to be right too, so she goes along with it. Also, Simmons is even more morally ambiguous than Fitz in my opinion, I don't know why anyone thinks otherwise. But they are all very morally ambiguous, it's not a Fitzsimmons mad scientists thing. Coulson, Daisy, May, Mack.... Mack and Daisy are just self-righteous though, especially Mac, so he thinks he is not even morally ambiguous.
I'm with Chris on the whole invincibility thing. It's an interesting concept to look at if you establish that time can't be changed in your universe, but they're actively trying to change time whilst also acting like it can't be changed. It's dumb, especially for FitzSimmons.
That’s the point though. If they die, then the universe will be changed and they’ll have successfully broken the loop. They see it as a win either way.
I forgot how goddamn stupid everyone on this show was this season with their "I cant be killed because of the future I plan to change is set in stone" philosophy.
Fitz never believed it could be changed. He wanted to try, sure, but he never believed it. And it's made pretty clear that they believe they can be killed, but their deaths would break the loop, which at least would mean that things would be different and prove to the rest that their goal can be reached
@9:47 see i didn’t like this part they got orders not to and cause of what they seen in the future they do this like come on if they didn’t do this then this might have been another change towards the future
Starting from this point is where I stop liking Mack. Most of them might be arguing about how they see this play out but at least they formulate their opinion base on what they know. Mack just don't want to hear about it, he just want to have "faith" that it will all turn out fine. And he just keep getting semi-religious from this point on. While Fiz may have dubious action but he gets them forward, Mack doesn't. And they can change the world, they know the key is to not save Coulson.
Never trust them again...EVER? That's incredibly short sighted, sure they might be in the wrong, but thery're trying to do right, which is something forgivable.
I mean, the trio's actions basically prove that they're willing to completely violate their teammates' bodily autonomy, lock them up or torture them against their consent any time they think it's "for the greater good". It's not short-sighted because they don't regret it, they think they're in the right and the next time they encounter a similar scenario of "for the greater good" they'd probably be perfectly willing to pull the same shit. How DO you trust them again? Granted, they're spies, so ultimately they do forgive each other because the lines they cross are by nature greater but I get where Chris is coming from. Rationally, in the back of your head you'll always be left wondering when's the next time you have to be stabbed in the back "for the greater good".
I love the fact that they managed to bring back a deleted scene for the first season and find a way to integrate it into the story so that it makes sense; one of the strong points of this show and why it’s one my favorites
What deleted scene did they bring back?
@@joevictor53 The Raina and Quinn scene. I thought it was a new scene but that's the only scene that has the possibility of being a deleted scene from the first season.
Big Mo Logan Yeah I found out after I posted the comment. That's amazing though. I love this show so much. I've been rewatching it lately to prepare for season 7 and it works so well IMO. It works a lot better than if it was an actual season 1 scene. Then it would've felt like they just abandoned the storyline but as a flashback it's perfect
ohhh no wonder they didnt look like they aged
Not sure how it's so hard for Chris to understand that Creel was told Talbot was shot in the head by Shield and shown video to prove it. They're using his loyalty to him to get back at Shield. If he knew Talbot was being tortured or used he would never have sided with them to begin with.
Khayman77 don’t forget that Creel was brainwashed and used by Hydra for an unknown amount of time. He probably has some serious trust issues and only really trusts Talbot, since he was the one that helped him. He was used by Hydra, then SHIELD was after and eventually caught him. It’s only natural that he has some serious issues with trusting anyone other than Talbot.
Normies every episode: "I dont know what is going to happen next." Me: "Yes, that is one of the most underrated great aspects of the show."
And the reason why it is my favourite...you never know where it will go next, but wherever it will be, you will always think "I should have seen that coming".
So true
In this show , you can understand any of the characters' point of view, and still not be sure whether they're right. Just great writing.
But in fact there are people who are 101 % sure that the invincible trio are wrong coward stupid piece of shit (they take it all to serious :D )
I agree with Chris that the team is falling apart this season. It’s like the big bad villain this season ends up being themselves - they are fighting each other and their own attachments with each other - more than any of these other outside threats. It an interesting departure from the other seasonal villains imo
Their whole freak out during Jemmas experiment was fantastic 😂
If I remember correctly the last scene was originally the post-credits scene of the end of the first season but finally decided not to use it, the most incredible thing is that they managed to integrate it into the story. It is also good to know that this season is intended as the end of the entire series so it has things of the whole series
Yep, right from S1.
Not just that, the fact its directly from that time - you get the look of these actors from S1, so it works even better.
tomas hm props to the show for not only saving it, but being able to work the scene into another plot twist (there being more than one person in the Gravitonium). That’s the impressive thing
It doesn't have Vijay, so no, it doesn't have things of the whole series.
All these callbacks to past seasons, hell even Season 1 Chris is back trying to nitpick every little thing...
Yeah, super obnoxious.
If either Jemma or Fitz die, the loop would be broken because they still have to build the time machine. In theory they could just shoot themselves, but they would never actually do that though. From what the characters have experienced in S3 it makes sense why they would believe time is fixed. Don't let time travel in other shows or movies cloud your judgement. Time is an illusion. Their theory is much more likely than one changing timeline...
Also, if Jemma, Fitz, or Yoyo dies, the loop would be broken, but no one can confirm it would be for the better. They'd fail to build the time machine, the earth would be destroyed, and there'd be no second/infinite chance for the world to be saved.
@@Thehardtruth69 Why not just do something basic like tell Daisy to get a haircut so it doesn't match the footage she saw. That way you can prove that some changes can be made.
@@defrostedrobot77 Haha, best comment. But true. Time can be changed in many ways, nothing is fixed, the only problem is how to change it so you get what you want. ;)
@@defrostedrobot77 Clearly, Daisy would then have to go on an impromptu mission where she will have to appear with her long hair and therefore will be forced to wear a wig.
@@bifa5414 True, but I would at least try it out so I know it's even possible and work from there so I don't end up tricking my friend into a cell for no reason. In fact, why not tell Daisy about Deke being their grandson so you can maybe convince her about your theories.
Yeah, this season really makes me mad.
"It was a child's drawing"
A child who can accurate predict and draw the future. I'd trust her drawing of those mountains
Yeah Creel not dying in that scene was also a big surprise to me when it aired 😂 His powers are so cool its a shame they used him so rarely the past seasons. Jemma was tripping with that experiment but theyre all getting more andf more desperate to change the future so tensions are rising
chris khan yeah but at least the gave him some character and gave him some more screen time this season
BTW in the comics Daisy was director of Shield
Yep, she was promoted when she had 18 years so she was the youngest Shield director ever which is very impressive and says a lot.
Mickey: "Gravitiman sort of payed of". Me: "I can fix this."
Why would you hurt me like this
“Hitler Youth snitched on their own parents because they were indoctrinated properly” - Chris
Out of context quote of the year
13:27 - 13:45 Rana had my lungs hurting defending the technology
her face between 13:41 and 13:43 killed me. Her face is saying "I told you BRO!"
Fitz is correct though the time doesn't change, it just branches off. The broken future still exists, they just brach off into a new future.
Yep, just like in End Game. And to think that some idiots still think that AoS had different timetravel rules than MCU...
@@Pir-o to be fair, AoS writers may not have been privy to how they were writing Endgame with how secretive it is... as we know that a tie in was hinted at but wasn't accurate.
I'd also love to see someone reconcile how Robin's powers work... as it looks like she did see multiple timelines and Fitz said as much.
Multiverse
But that doesn’t mean their invincible though. That part was pretty dumb on the trio’s part.
@@datguy3581 That was never Fitz' theory. That was Yoyo's belief that she embedded in Jemma's mind. By changing their present their future becomes uncertain.
Shield is a spy organization. Mack betrayed the team for fake shield, yoyo was Daisy's person on the inside when she went rogue, everyone has made mistakes and there are levels. How quickly they forget how fitz was the only one protecting the newly inhuman daisy. It doesnt excuse fitz, but being the shield that protects comes with sacrifices, and hard choices.
And the thing is too that they did chose to be the shields. They didn’t take anyone else on the mission with them, only the ones, who they knew, until the timeline is broken, are invincible. So they really went out there to protect the others. If they succeed, hopefully the timeline had been changed or if they died the timeline had been changed. They were trying to be selfless and clever in a convoluted way but selfless none the less. Only they failed. Because they couldn’t escape their true nature of protecting one another. When each of them was threatened they couldn’t help but be the shield for each other. And I think with all the unknown variables and them not all being 100% certain if they were right, that this choice to protect is justified. Because while death would break the time loop they don’t know for sure whether or not their death would actually make it worse. So they didn’t want to gleefully jump to one of their deaths Just in case. And ahhh it was complicated and everyone’s point of view is so valid. I will standby what these three did though as being what they thought was right with their good silly beautifully well meaning hearts. 💕❤️
(Tho yoyo killing the girl was much different as that was her individual choice not the three of theirs. So it’s not as linked to the above statement)
everyone is saying that knowing sure as hell if that happende to them, they wouldnt just forgive and forget smh
@@stephlovesmusic3167THANK YOU
Daisy just wants the most capable man for the job, Coulson, to take over. He can reassess the information and even look at Fitz’s bases when he returns. Unfortunately, Simmons didn’t relay that information to the team. Also, notice how the 3 least experienced agents are the ones who go rogue.
To be fair to Creel, he was a boxer- so he was probably hit in the head... a LOT
tr011ful LMAOOOOOO
😂😂
Ole Battlin' Jack
I understand the confusion of the timeline but I believe Endgame gave us the answer.
When Bruce Banner was talking to the ancient one about the time stone, he said if the Time stone was returned (after the avengers used it) at the same time that it was taken - The timeline wouldn't change.
Coulson and the crew returned from the future but NOT at the same time from when they were taken (at the diner) hence a NEW timeline branched off. Therefore they do have the chance of changing the Earth from being destroyed.
Back to the Future theories don't work (also explained in Endgame).
Agents of Normies rule.
Nah, it's the same timeline...it's basically a time loop in which no matter what they did, the same future came to pass until the one time when they manage to change the future and yes, THAN the new timeline branched off. So there are now two timelines, one in which they rescued the earth and one in which they didn't, but managed to give it a second chance.
I don't know if you guys have finished the season yet, but after you watch 5x22, you should go back and watch the first few minutes of 5x01!
Trust me, it'll make sense.
22:50 - That was a perfect moment for Suraj to use that LOST metaphor with dropping rocks vs dropping boulders into a river. Changing small things won't work since you not changing anything, you just end up causing the thing you trying to prevent. You would have to do something RLY extreme and crazy to break the loop and create a whole different timeline.
Thats why half of the team subsribes to the theory that they can't be killed. Cause either:
A) they can't be killed so they can do whatever they want (and hopefully that will end up with them doing something new that breaks the loop)
B) they die and still change the loop
win win situation. The logic is there.
Oh man... sometimes your logic is not logical at all. They are "invincible" because they haven't change the timeline YET. That doesn't mean that they can't change it later down the line or that they should stop trying to change it. And if one of the three would die (for example Jemma in her experiment), they would have proven that they changed the timeline and already accomplished their goal. Also you can't know what will change the timeline (if it is at all possible). For example what if you trying to prevent the end of the world in truth causes the end of the world? So do nothing or try to change something? Impossible choice, because you don't know what will cause the end of the world and you desperatly need more information about it. In a sense I agree with Jemma here. They have to at least try.
Guthwulf Great points, bro
Just because they would change the timeline it would not mean that the Earth will be saved - that's why their theory is stupid. For example destroy all quinjets and from now use only helicopters, footage will Daisy will be different, you have changed the timeline but Earth will still get destroyed. Also just because they can "not" die doesn't mean that their actions won't kill someone else or cause bigger problem. If they really believes that they death can save the world then why they don't shot themselfes RIGHT NOW? You know why? Because Trio is being hypocrical.
- FS are saying that they can't die but as soon as their lifes are at risk they decide to repair the machine that literally leads to the end of the world
- or how Fitz is just basically like Jemma > Earth > Daisy (he risked Daisy's life to save the city but now is too afraid to risk Jemma's life to save the world)
If Jemma had died in this experiment, they would have broken the loop, sure. But that's not their goal. Their goal is to prevent the earth from cracking. I guess they might get a morale boost from knowing that they can. But also, Jemma would be dead and couldn't help solve the actual problem anymore.
Huschel They know they are currently stuck in a time loop that results in the Earth cracking. Exiting the time loop would be a win
That1Guy Exiting the time loop and stopping the end of the world aren’t the same thing though. It could still end but Simmons would just be dead and the world would never be saved.
They ain't ready for what will happen a few episodes from this one...
I told I can fix it.
@@YouAnd_OnlyYou ?
Alberto Moscoso Jr. they are already on season 6 on patreon so they already know by now the events of the rest of this season
@@pyr1412 you are correct. I overlooked that. I may consider getting on Patreon... or I'll just wait here.
Alberto Moscoso Jr. I have to wait b/c I find patreon dumb and won’t pay for it but I get that’s why a lot of you tubers are doing it.
they are probably one of the very few reactors who are siding with daisy and not jemma fitz and yoyo in this entire storyline..interesting..
I love to see it.
I mean Rana and pat are on fitz‘s side; but honestly that was one of the strong points of the second half this season that the conflict within the team created conflict between the viewers , I’ve seen a lot of discussions about who’s wrong and who’s right when this first aired and still do in reaction channels
@@animusswtor4822 its gonna get even more heated for few next episodes!! cant wait!!😅
Rida yep I’m curious to see their sides on three things (spoilers ahead):
1 Yo-yo killing ruby and
2 Daisy vs Yo-Yo
3 may smashing the odium and the whole coulson situation in general
@@animusswtor4822 Having some debate isn't inherently bad but the way the show just kind of sidesteps all the issues by the end feels real cheap. Like they built up all of these conflicts and then it gets wrapped up way too neatly and conveniently through methods I have doubt would work as well as we're told.
Daisy has been tortured and violated by some version of Fitz twice: once in the Framework and again in real life. Every reaction she has at this point in the story is extremely valid and totally understandable. The fact that she can even stand to see his face anymore is a goddamned miracle.
Nothing about Daisy's choices in this episode were unreasonable. Deke is not a SHIELD agent and does not need to be on missions unless absolutely necessary. She didn't tell them not to talk to Fitz and she didn't ignore Fitz' intel/contributions. Daisy told Simmons to get the intel from Fitz and they would review it and decide on an action plan once she and the rest of the team returned.
Also, contrary to some people's beliefs, Daisy didn't lock Fitz up for "no reason." The man had a psychotic break, beat Deke into unconsciousness, set a robot on Mack and Simmons and Yoyo, then attacked and performed torturous and unwilling surgery on Daisy while holding Simmons and Deke at gunpoint via a robot.
Frankly, Daisy did the bare minimum in locking Fitz up. He really should've been completely removed from the base and placed in a controlled and secure psychiatric ward until he could receive legitimate treatment. The only reason they couldn't is because they were in the middle of a world ending crisis so she did the best she could. Simmons and Yoyo were completely out of pocket for releasing him less than a day after he lost it and violently attacked everyone.
If I were Daisy, the only reason Fitz wouldn’t be beaten within an inch of his life is because of Jemma
Thank you for the double drop!!
Raina’s theme always gave me goosebumps
She has her own theme?
@@bensenzo specific piano notes
While they believe the future isn't able to be changed, what kind of people would they be if they didn't try anyways?
If they would really believe in this then they would put a bullet into their skull. Episode 17 confirms how hypocrite Trio is and as soon as their lifes were at risk FS decided to put their own lifes above saving the planet by fixing the machine.
bifa Each other not their own. Know the difference
@@ShieldVids Only the people they "really" care about though. Yoyo is happy to let Coulson die. Fitz was willing to sacrifice Daisy if necessary. They only care about keeping "their" person alive so it's still kinda hypocritical lol.
@@bifa5414 Just because they're willing to take extreme risks doesn't mean they're outright suicidal and stupid.
@@krissym1399 Aren't they? Then why Jemma had 2 cups with water and 1 with poison? Isn't that stupid and suicidal at the same time?
Pat "Hydra is awesome but futurama is scary"
MY LEFT ARM HURTS! 😂😂
19:10 - Haven't you seen Endgame, Micky? "Back to the Future is a bunch of BULLSHIT!" LOL!
10:35
S1-4: Fitzsimmons is surely cursed.
S5: Watch now as we drink acid.
If the future can be changed, they can die. FitzSimmons and Yo Yo are being stupid. Also yeah. The invincible trio destroyed trust in the team. Daisy and Mack have no reason to trust them anymore. Daisy was being a pretty good leader. She is carrying out a mission well and organizing them. It’s not her fault that Simmons is acting stupid.
Saving the world and changing the timeline are two separate things. Jemma dying doesn’t save the world. It just prevents them from discovering time travel.
changing the future shows it can be prevented.
Dagenspear if they’re dead, they proved the future can be changed and broke the loop. However, they then wouldn’t be around to stop the end of the worlds. It would just prevent them from going back in time and getting a second chance. The world would stay broken forever.
Double drop! We love you Normies!
it is funny as hell how much hes trying to argue that its the same timeline. Avengers EndGame they literally explain that its not like Back to the Future and he uses it as an example on how it works in the MCU. Im not mad its just funny as hell lol
XxHrallundeadrogueXx The MCU has multiple time travel happenings, between this, Endgame, and the Runaways. They’re all different forms of time travel so all have different rules.
@@markc4008 How is this not like Endgame?
@@mlgnerd13 Endgame used the quantum realm to time travel. This used the monolith.
@@markc4008 But that doesn't mean the rules are different, just the methods. Both of them use the concept of time branching out due to changes made
@@mlgnerd13 Except the rules clearly are different. The methods are different and the rules are different.
"Gravitiman is weak because its one of the weakest forces". What? How does that make sense?
Gravity literally holds the universe in place 😂
Because gravity is the weakest of the four forces, weaker than electrical or nuclear. It needs a high mass to not be negligible. He didn't said anything wrong
@@ulic96 It's a perfectly reasonable comment in our universe but wrong (in AoS) because of gravitonium.
@@ulic96 Gravitational force is stronger than Van der waals, ergo not the weakest force.
@@BhBc8f8 I was talking about the fundamental forces. But still, one of the weakests
They really have a hard time understanding the “invincibility” argument for some reason. It’s pretty simple because there are only two possible results that could occur:
1. They don’t die because doing so would change the future so they have freedom to engage in more risky behavior in an attempt to change the future.
2. They do die, thus breaking the loop and changing the future.
It’s literally a win-win scenario.
3. They do die, and the world ends anyway. The only thing their deaths guarantee is Yo-Yo and Deke don't exist in the future, not that the world doesn't end
a NYE double-drop of AoS?
this is the way.
Oh yeah double drop nice
Per IMDb, final scene was shot for S1 finale but got deleted.
Per TVTropes, the actor has resigned from acting, that's why he was absent
They may be trying to change the future, but they both still don;t believe it's actually possible.
Ah, "we're invincible" the only storyline of this season I didn't like.
U love to see double upload
wow guys. 2 episodes in one day. Quinn and Raina flashback. Deleted scene from S1. Ruby is going crazy, more than she already was. Those 3 don’t know what they’re doing.
DOUBLE DROP!!!
Wazzup Agents of Normies.
Lmao these reactions are making fans argue (way too heatedly) about which character they side with a full 2 years later
The logic behind their theory is, they only have to change one thing but they dont know what that is, so they'll act like they are invincible (cause they kinda are if they dont find the thing that needs to change) and if that recklessness gets them killed or something close to that, then that means they succeded and changed the future.
You saw Endgame, was the Earth destroyed? Torn apart?
USE endgame time travel logic this is the same universe.
Endgame wasn't even written yet when this episode aired
@@Jeremy-jm3fe this is just wrong. They started writing in 2015.
@@kenanburakkaplan4087 Regardless, the showrunners didn't know how the rules of Endgame's time travel would work.
They probably didn't even know about the snap either, because AoS directly references Thanos coming to Earth, as per the premise of Infinity War, but no one in the show gets dusted.
I think they also gave up trying to connect the show to the MCU, because season 6 doesn't mention any of the movies at all.
Double up load.... *cool*
15:18 well thats because his hero Steve Rogers once said ''you get hurt, hurt 'em back, you get killed, walk it off''
Im with Chris, Fitzsimmons and yoyo annoyed me and they used to be my fav characters but now after everything and what they did to mack and daisy I can't look at them the same
A double droplet of Shield as we hear the inner voice of Talbot
Gravitonium fully returns to roost as Creel finds his mind conflicted by the voices of Hall and Quinn
Creel doesn't know about Talbot, which ends up being key to escape, man's good at heart
You argued about invincibility last episode and this is the extremism on display, the idea that if they do die then the timeline changes and they've done their job but if not then they cannot be harmed until after
Academy Award Nominee at that point too, it was a deleted scene they kept all the way back from season 1
Between this and the 100 its some of the best content of youtube cant wait for may 5th lmao
Did you know Dove Cameron was rumored as Gwen in a Spider Man live action movie?
Hahaha The time travel shenanigans are causing the same rifts and disagreements on the Normies couch that are happening on the Shield team.
Can't wait for #yoyodidnothingwrong
@18:48 like they see they make it to the future but that’s what you need to change to not go to the future where the earth broke so everything your doing now is going towards that and not changing it
If you guys are confused about how time travel works in the MCU, then you should really check out this film called Avengers: Endgame. Also, do the Normies ever look back at the notes they take? A lot of questions they have were already answered.
Just wanna remind you that they have all been trough hell, jemma was a slave in the future for crying out loud.
In the words of May, "We've all had our trauma Ward, it didn't turn any of us into psychopaths."
@@Thehardtruth69 Yet
@@David-bf2cg I don't know, man. I think playing Russian Roulette with a third of a chance to fucking die is pretty psychotic. If you're trying to change the future, then you can't really rely on the information from that future like that.
Honestly, to work with shield, especially being on coulsons team, basically almost requires you to be a psychopath by now; with all they’ve been through no one is completely 100% sane; entering spoiler territory caution below
fitz with the doctor; may hellbend on keeping Coulson Alive smashing the odium; yoyo and jemma with their invincible stick; coulson making a deal with a literal devil; daisy digging up a f’ing corpse
Yeah I don’t know 🤷♂️
She was a servant for couple of days and she couldn't hear a thing. Thats all. You want real trauma? What about being stuck alone in space with no chances of going back. THAT had to be way scarier than being covered in gold, serving some alien overlords.
Another! :D
hype!
19:09 "Have you guys seen Back to the Future?!" - Nahid, Normies
"So Back to the Future is a bunch of bullshit." - Scott Lang, Avengers Endgame
Then again, that movie takes place in a different timeline/reality than AoS.
actually we do not have confirmation that it exists in a different timeline as of yet... it's still pretty up in the air, and even if they are in different timelines, we don't know where/how the timeline split occurred yet either...
@@EvelynMadisonFaust If you've seen any part of Season 6 then you'd know they aren't in the same timeline anymore. My head canon is that Thor did kill Thanos in Wakanda in this one.
@12:08 it’s like they don’t know what there futureselfs did ahd they probably did this to and this is something going towards the earth exploded and maybe if they didn’t do this it will be different
@20:46 well those 3 are on this yolo life cause they know they survive the future so they are working to get to that place cause they know they survive that’s not saving the world that’s just following the loop of the earth breaking
Agents of Normies- *gets divided
Shield- Congratulation folks...we didi it
CHRIS the loop is caused by the world ending. It has no connection to whether Fitz, Jemma or Yoyo live or die. Them dying doesn't prevent the world ending. Remember that in one instance of the loop Jemma was actually dead.
During this timeline. the Avengers were broken up and it was leading to the Snap. So Iron Man was heading to space with Dr. Strange and Spiderman, and Cap. America was heading to Wakanda. They had their hands were full. Then the Snap happened
Nice one Normies
@13:37 because the girl draw what it looks like in her vision
Its not that confusing, FitzSimmons, Yoyo, Deke think future cant be changed, May, Coulson, Mack, and Daisy think it can
Jemma gone crazy, too 😮 No wonder she chose Fitz 😅
I have a problem with the volume every week where I have my laptop speaker and the video volume at 100% and the sound still not that loud, I hope they fix it in the future
7:30 I think that's the first time I've EVER agreed with Pat...🤔
I didn't know Marketa was an Pawg 👀 I see it now Chris 0:20
Ffs😂
u guys may need to make some WWE PPV shows reaction like "Royal Rumble" "Wrestlemania" "SummerSlam"
i can see some WWE fans there 😎✌
these last few episodes were the first time that I fully and only agree with Chris. Someone's intentions can be as good as they want, but if they do an improper surgical procedure on me without my consent, you are no longer my friend and I cannot trust you. Period point blank. I can understand why you did it and even agree with it, but you to me are no longer my damn friend coz who knows what else you can do and when. Also yes them trying to change the future inherently counters the fact that they think they are invincible because of the future. The only reason that could make sense is because different people feel differently Skye and Yoyo want to change it, May and Fitz don't think you can etc.
If Fitz couldn't stop robots, then he could've tried to comfort Daisy during operation, make it psychologically less painful, sooth her like "I'm sorty I have to do this. Robots won't stop until we're through. But I'll try to do it as safe and less painful as possible"
They have to do what they have to do, to save humanity. Feelings will be hurt but they will need to get over it.
Chris- Mack don't trust that Yoyo can go back to work. He is just holding her back and controlling her life. That is wrong too.
One thing is controlling, the other thing is taking care of your suicidal friend. And doing what needs to be done ≠ do anything you want without remorse
i want that Joy-Con hoodie.
Speaking of 12 Monkeys, the TV show is actually AMAZING. Y'all should react to it (on second thought.... maybe not.... y'all would be soooooooo confused).
This is how the Moronic Trio comes to be. Name well earned.
I think not much more than Daisy's thinking of save Coulson irregardless of the world.
@@Dagenspear Whatever you mean by that? Daisy saves the world beating Graviton knowing that Coulson is about to die.
Dagenspear But saving Coulson doesn’t necessarily mean ending the world. They have no information on the context. Future Yo Yo is vague and unreliable. They’re in a loop listening to her over and over again. Plus Coulson had to put the pieces together. Discovering a way to save Coulson doesn’t bring the world closer to destruction. There is very poor justification for sacrificing SHIELD’s greatest asset because of a theory. In the end, Daisy saved the world because she tried to save Coulson.
They’re so stupid. They’re going off on their own with no backup and there is this invincible thing
@@datguy3581 For once we are on the same page. lol
Fitz and Simmons have plot armor, they cant die
If it was left to Daisy's own choices, or even Mac and Melinda, nothing would really change. That is the problem. If they were at least open to listening to the rest, they would have gone with Fitzsimmons and Yoyo, and would have saved the day and could have change everything. Also you misunderstand their motivations. Yoyo said this before, she is either invincible or she dies and the future changes. Simmons wants her to be right too, so she goes along with it. Also, Simmons is even more morally ambiguous than Fitz in my opinion, I don't know why anyone thinks otherwise. But they are all very morally ambiguous, it's not a Fitzsimmons mad scientists thing. Coulson, Daisy, May, Mack.... Mack and Daisy are just self-righteous though, especially Mac, so he thinks he is not even morally ambiguous.
I like this please release 2 episodes everyweek it's better
I'm with Chris on the whole invincibility thing. It's an interesting concept to look at if you establish that time can't be changed in your universe, but they're actively trying to change time whilst also acting like it can't be changed. It's dumb, especially for FitzSimmons.
That’s the point though. If they die, then the universe will be changed and they’ll have successfully broken the loop. They see it as a win either way.
"actively trying to change" ?? Who ? Only Yoyo was(will) actively trying to change the future and not in this episode
I think Yoyo says if she dies the loop is broken
I forgot how goddamn stupid everyone on this show was this season with their "I cant be killed because of the future I plan to change is set in stone" philosophy.
Fitz never believed it could be changed. He wanted to try, sure, but he never believed it. And it's made pretty clear that they believe they can be killed, but their deaths would break the loop, which at least would mean that things would be different and prove to the rest that their goal can be reached
@7:51 damnnnn
@17:49 oooohhh
The crew being mad at Fitzsimmons/yoyo is wild. Maybe its just cos I dont like Mack or Daisy idk.
#teamfitz
#teaminvincible
👍😎
@9:47 see i didn’t like this part they got orders not to and cause of what they seen in the future they do this like come on if they didn’t do this then this might have been another change towards the future
9 months since the last skit 😑🥺😭
Don’t the „when you watch too much of....“ count as skits too, there were a few of those recently
23:16 Nahid & Rana, please get back to reacting to The Flash. And please react to the rest of the Arrowverse as well.
In 4 episodes.......... 🤫
The actors bully Deke in real life because he’s new
Starting from this point is where I stop liking Mack. Most of them might be arguing about how they see this play out but at least they formulate their opinion base on what they know. Mack just don't want to hear about it, he just want to have "faith" that it will all turn out fine. And he just keep getting semi-religious from this point on. While Fiz may have dubious action but he gets them forward, Mack doesn't. And they can change the world, they know the key is to not save Coulson.
Never trust them again...EVER? That's incredibly short sighted, sure they might be in the wrong, but thery're trying to do right, which is something forgivable.
I mean, the trio's actions basically prove that they're willing to completely violate their teammates' bodily autonomy, lock them up or torture them against their consent any time they think it's "for the greater good". It's not short-sighted because they don't regret it, they think they're in the right and the next time they encounter a similar scenario of "for the greater good" they'd probably be perfectly willing to pull the same shit. How DO you trust them again?
Granted, they're spies, so ultimately they do forgive each other because the lines they cross are by nature greater but I get where Chris is coming from. Rationally, in the back of your head you'll always be left wondering when's the next time you have to be stabbed in the back "for the greater good".
32 seconds ago. wow. Am I the first youtuber on this video?
#TeamDaisy