Thanks for the update. Related: Tons of Wyndham "ownerships" bought for $20K, $50K, and more go unsold on eBay, TUG, and RedWeek, or at best sell for $0.03 on the dollar. If timeshares had real value ....banks would not be loaning at no collateral/personal loan rates.
Thanks for watching. The reality is banks won't even lend. Any financing you get when you purchase from the developer is seller financing. There isn't any bank actually loaning out the money. So it is actually worse...
Hi Jeremy - I own a Vistana (VSN) deeded week, bought on a 2nd market (Redweek), and am at the “Select” lvl with Vistana. I have the ability to convert my week to StarOptions, or Abound/Marriott Club points, and get Platinum Elite Bonvoy status through the ownership. I’m considering buying another week, this time a Marriott (MVC) deeded week (not points), also on a 2nd market (Redweek etc). If the Club points trade-in value of the new (MVC) week, plus the club points value of my original (VSN) week bumps me up to over 10k total club pts, will they combine these, and push my VSN or MVC tier level from “Select” to the “Presidential” level, and bump my BonVoy status up to Titanium Elite? Thanks in advance - I’m new to Timesharing, and enjoying your content.
What has been the recent Marriott right of first refusal activity? It seems if you could pick up say 2,500 points or so, it would be a good deal at a dollar or two a point. Still, the yearly maintenance fee is still ruthless.
You can take a look at rofr.net. There aren't very many recent records for MVC Trust Points though, so it is hard to gauge if they are taking a lot of these back through ROFR.
Yes, that is correct. Up to late last year it seems that MVC was taking back contracts in and around $3.50 per point. I bet they are real happy with the new lower resale prices. They can potentially get them cheaper now. Thanks for watching.
Hi Jeremy, thanks for the video. Very interesting we just have basic points and may someday look to purchase additional points to increase. Heading down to Marriott grand Vista in a week looking forward to our return visit.
I must have missed how MVC had some impact on the values? Are you saying that the increase in maintenance fees has done that? You didn’t actually say that…
I kind of alluded to it being the increase in maintenance fees and also "maintenance fee season". This may not all be MVC's fault but I suspect long term fees will keep prices down. Thanks for watching!
Another great video! So those listings you were showing, are those sale of the points permanently? Or are those just sale of someone’s points for one year?
We bought 3k abound trust points on eBay in 2022 for $2k however Marriott has a minimum transfer fee of $3/point so it’s still 11k total for something that would’ve otherwise cost 40k retail or more. You can’t just get 2k Marriott points by bidding $12 on eBay (effectively free) and just pick them up for the maintenance fee. This is misguided
Yeah. The only people getting those “free” ones off EBay are Marriott Vacation Club. When they take them with right of first refusal. I would say though, getting them for less than $1 per point before the Marriott fees is a great deal!
@@DestinationTimeshare yes it really was and we feel very fortunate to not have went ahead with the retail purchase that we originally signed in the presentation. I think if more people knew about this the resale value would be much better whereas the retail pitch would effectively be gone.
5:22 Hi Jeremy! We’ve been Vistana owners since 2010. I’m understanding in order to participate in fully and get real access to the Marriott portfolio, one must have trust Club Points. Would purchasing the Club Points on the secondary market give the full benefit as purchasing directly from Marriott? Thx for your expertise, Lisa
Thanks for watching! Did you purchase your Vistana ownership directly from Vistana? If so, you don't need to do anything. Anything you heard otherwise about having to own trust points is incorrect. Perhaps you heard it from a sales person? Points you get for electing your Vistana VOI for Club Points work just the same way as trust points for making reservations within the abound program. It is the first item that I discuss in this video of misconceptions about Abound. th-cam.com/video/jvHUAxe5lys/w-d-xo.html
@@DestinationTimeshare Hi again! THX so much for that info. We have purchased all of our Vistana ownerships directly from Westin. I think I'm understanding now, that w/o Club Points you have to take a leap of faith with your Vistana StarOptions, whereas if you have Club Points you have that backend into the view of what's available before you go for it. I'm finding in my research, it feels like the Westin properties are generally a bit better appointed than the Marriott villas - but can certainly have their place in the vacation plans. How do you spend so much time at resorts????
Buyer has to pay Marriott $3 per point as well to Marriott as a transfer fee and they also charge a $300 "Education Fee" and $95 for their ROFR which further tanks any resale value that would actually go to the owner. They don't want anything to sell on the resale. It will just end up back in their hands for free when someone stops paying.
Well, you can always consider a resale. I hear the prices are cheap right now :) Also buying a Marriott week and using II to trade into other Marriott resorts is a great option. That is what we do.
Hi Jeremy not sure if you have already covered this is a previous video, but could you do a video on how to use II to your advantage and how to trade your week using II? I am a legacy Vistana owner but have never used II before and am not familiar with the benefits of utilizing that. Keep up the good work!
Absolutely Sr. You can buy almost everything online now but I wouldn’t recommend anyone buying any timeshare on the resale. Look at the big scam for resales.
No doubt MVC points seem to have been so overly diluted, given the fixed number of available units in their inventory. Think of it like air travel sales. A plane has 100 seats; but airline sells flight points for those 100 fixed number of seats. If the airline sells seats they can only sell all 100 seats in the inventory and when all 100 seats have been sold out they cannot sell any more. Now here is the kicker. With the point system they can sell as many points as possible way beyond the inventory they have. AND they tell the members that there is a heirarchical system that allows Chairman's level can reserve the unit first within certain time. If you have only 3000 points you are at the bottom of the totempole; as such you have nearly zero chance to get what you hope to have, and you have to go some place you don't care to go. So this point system has been invented to sell, actually oversell, beyond the inventory MVC has. This means MVC is enjoying your money you paid down naively assuming that you will be able to use the points for the location you picked. The number of deeded week owners of a MVC resort equals the total number of weeks per year multiplied by the units--this is fixed and cannot change and as such the deeded owners will get a week of a unit surely and certainly. The point system is MVC's nearly scam-like ways to sell more than they have in their inventory. The more points they sell the intrinsic value of the points you own will go down by dilution of the existing total number of points (just like the number of stocks of a company).
They can only sell as many points as the trust owns, so they can't technically oversell. However, to use your airline analogy, they have 100 seats but people only want to book the exit rows or first three rows of the plane. There are a whole bunch of empty seats that go to unused each flight and then they have too many people trying to book later flights still all wanting those exit rows and first three rows. If you don't mind sitting at the back, there are lots of open seats, but most people want the better seats. This still happened some in the weeks based system, but not nearly on the same scale because you had to book something at your resort in the season you owned. With points you can book any resort any time. Point values of individual nights is supposed to even things out, but it doesn't seem to really work that way.
Ah, but I believe the trust owns several hundreds of thousands of points. The real problem for points owners is that they are at the mercy of the weeks owners to exchange their weeks for points at the desired locations so that other points owners might have a chance to get to reserve into that location. To my knowledge, Marriott has built very few new timeshares since rolling out the points system so most resorts and especially the most desired locations all still have lots of weeks owners who must give up the week in order for a points owners to even have a chance to get into those resorts. The acquisition of Vistana properties and the automatic enrollment of vistana owners in Abound has not mitigated this situation, infact it may have made it worse. The best fix in my opinion is to build new resorts that have no weeks owners. I don't see that happening. Marriott would rather acquire existing timeshare systems.
They have built points only locations. Any Pulse location, excluding boston. It's again similar to the previous seat selection post. A lot of points owners were promised window seats and won't explore the middle seat. There is lots of open inventory, but if you only want a popular location during high demand seasons you're going to be disappointed.
With all due respect, it was a good video - but it would have been a little better if you mentioned theories or reasons why, you think the market is depressed. Has anything changed recently, in the past year? I know the cost to "activate" the points into the system is outrageous.
Hi Jeremy, recent subscriber to your channel and thanks for all the great content. I recently bought into MVC and realise I need to get to at least Executive level (am currently at Select with 5,000 points). Will buying 2,000 points on the resale market get me up one level? Are there restrictions on using said 2,000 points to book Ritz-Carlton Club properties? Thanks in advance!
Thanks for watching and subscribing. When you buy resale points, as long as you pay the $3 per point initiation fee, they will work the same way as trust points purchased direct. So they will count toward the Owner Benefit Levels and you would be Executive. There are restrictions with the luxury resorts like Ritz Carlton. Here is a link to the benefit guide. Moving from Select to Executive removes certain restrictions on luxury resort reservations; www.marriottvacationsworldwide.com/common/cms/mvc/pdfs/owners/Owner-Benefit-Level.pdf
@@DestinationTimeshare thanks for that! I suppose one thing that doesn't transfer over is Bonvoy Elite status eg. if I buy additional 5k points to get to Presidential I won't be getting the Lifetime Titanium Elite status, correct?
@@davidkwchong8964 Bonvoy status is based on your Owner Benefit Level. So if you are Presidential you get Bonvoy status based on that. Do note, it isn't lifetime. It is only based on your ownership. If you later sell points and fall to a lower status your Bonvoy status will change too.
This sounds like something a timeshare salesperson would say. Buying resale is not complicated at all. The bonuses are not worth the extra cost. I have a video that outlines that rip off. While anniversary dates can be an issue, it isn't hard to get them to line up, especially since most out there have a January use year. Thanks for watching!
? That’s base on my experience….. I didn’t understand the part of what a salesman said , no one told me it’s my experience, you a different one. Ok. It’s all about perception and experiences. But thank you. Anyways.
People that buy timeshares are brain dead, they have been brainwashed into thinking they can’t go on vacation unless they’re paying for a timeshare. With all of the money you’re paying in fees, you’re paying more than you would not having a timeshare and paying for your vacation right out smh.
You're right about certain situations but very wrong about others. Making overly broad generalizations usually make you more wrong than right. Thanks for watching!
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Thanks for the update.
Related:
Tons of Wyndham "ownerships" bought for $20K, $50K, and more go unsold on eBay, TUG, and RedWeek,
or at best sell for $0.03 on the dollar.
If timeshares had real value
....banks would not be loaning at no collateral/personal loan rates.
Thanks for watching. The reality is banks won't even lend. Any financing you get when you purchase from the developer is seller financing. There isn't any bank actually loaning out the money. So it is actually worse...
Hi Jeremy - I own a Vistana (VSN) deeded week, bought on a 2nd market (Redweek), and am at the “Select” lvl with Vistana. I have the ability to convert my week to StarOptions, or Abound/Marriott Club points, and get Platinum Elite Bonvoy status through the ownership.
I’m considering buying another week, this time a Marriott (MVC) deeded week (not points), also on a 2nd market (Redweek etc). If the Club points trade-in value of the new (MVC) week, plus the club points value of my original (VSN) week bumps me up to over 10k total club pts, will they combine these, and push my VSN or MVC tier level from “Select” to the “Presidential” level, and bump my BonVoy status up to Titanium Elite?
Thanks in advance - I’m new to Timesharing, and enjoying your content.
What has been the recent Marriott right of first refusal activity? It seems if you could pick up say 2,500 points or so, it would be a good deal at a dollar or two a point. Still, the yearly maintenance fee is still ruthless.
You can take a look at rofr.net. There aren't very many recent records for MVC Trust Points though, so it is hard to gauge if they are taking a lot of these back through ROFR.
I believe any of those sales have to be authorized but Marriott as first right of refusal. Is that correct ?
Yes, Marriot must approve it.
Yes, that is correct. Up to late last year it seems that MVC was taking back contracts in and around $3.50 per point. I bet they are real happy with the new lower resale prices. They can potentially get them cheaper now. Thanks for watching.
Ouch! I guess ok if you're a new buyer and there's no more deviation, but tough on everyone else when it comes time to sell.
Hi Jeremy, thanks for the video. Very interesting we just have basic points and may someday look to purchase additional points to increase. Heading down to Marriott grand Vista in a week looking forward to our return visit.
Grande Vista is one of our home resorts, we really like it there. Have a great trip and thanks for watching!
Where is the saving in time shares. I don't see it
The savings are there if you buy resale. Also, owning Marriott weeks is a far better value than their points program.
It a buyers market wow! Thanks for the information
You're welcome. Thanks for watching.
I must have missed how MVC had some impact on the values? Are you saying that the increase in maintenance fees has done that? You didn’t actually say that…
I kind of alluded to it being the increase in maintenance fees and also "maintenance fee season". This may not all be MVC's fault but I suspect long term fees will keep prices down. Thanks for watching!
Another great video! So those listings you were showing, are those sale of the points permanently? Or are those just sale of someone’s points for one year?
Thanks for watching. They for the sale of the points deed, so permanently. Not just one time use points which many refer to as renting points.
Ah ok, thank you for clarifying! In new to ownership, and your videos have been very helpful!
We bought 3k abound trust points on eBay in 2022 for $2k however Marriott has a minimum transfer fee of $3/point so it’s still 11k total for something that would’ve otherwise cost 40k retail or more. You can’t just get 2k Marriott points by bidding $12 on eBay (effectively free) and just pick them up for the maintenance fee. This is misguided
Yeah. The only people getting those “free” ones off EBay are Marriott Vacation Club. When they take them with right of first refusal.
I would say though, getting them for less than $1 per point before the Marriott fees is a great deal!
@@DestinationTimeshare yes it really was and we feel very fortunate to not have went ahead with the retail purchase that we originally signed in the presentation. I think if more people knew about this the resale value would be much better whereas the retail pitch would effectively be gone.
5:22 Hi Jeremy! We’ve been Vistana owners since 2010. I’m understanding in order to participate in fully and get real access to the Marriott portfolio, one must have trust Club Points. Would purchasing the Club Points on the secondary market give the full benefit as purchasing directly from Marriott? Thx for your expertise, Lisa
Thanks for watching! Did you purchase your Vistana ownership directly from Vistana? If so, you don't need to do anything. Anything you heard otherwise about having to own trust points is incorrect. Perhaps you heard it from a sales person? Points you get for electing your Vistana VOI for Club Points work just the same way as trust points for making reservations within the abound program. It is the first item that I discuss in this video of misconceptions about Abound. th-cam.com/video/jvHUAxe5lys/w-d-xo.html
@@DestinationTimeshare Hi again! THX so much for that info. We have purchased all of our Vistana ownerships directly from Westin. I think I'm understanding now, that w/o Club Points you have to take a leap of faith with your Vistana StarOptions, whereas if you have Club Points you have that backend into the view of what's available before you go for it. I'm finding in my research, it feels like the Westin properties are generally a bit better appointed than the Marriott villas - but can certainly have their place in the vacation plans. How do you spend so much time at resorts????
Buyer has to pay Marriott $3 per point as well to Marriott as a transfer fee and they also charge a $300 "Education Fee" and $95 for their ROFR which further tanks any resale value that would actually go to the owner. They don't want anything to sell on the resale. It will just end up back in their hands for free when someone stops paying.
Marriott makes money either way. Thanks for watching!
I was looking at buying Marriott, the turn off for me is the payment I need to make to Marriott to get them into their system
Well, you can always consider a resale. I hear the prices are cheap right now :) Also buying a Marriott week and using II to trade into other Marriott resorts is a great option. That is what we do.
Hi Jeremy not sure if you have already covered this is a previous video, but could you do a video on how to use II to your advantage and how to trade your week using II? I am a legacy Vistana owner but have never used II before and am not familiar with the benefits of utilizing that. Keep up the good work!
Absolutely Sr. You can buy almost everything online now but I wouldn’t recommend anyone buying any timeshare on the resale. Look at the big scam for resales.
No doubt MVC points seem to have been so overly diluted, given the fixed number of available units in their inventory. Think of it like air travel sales. A plane has 100 seats; but airline sells flight points for those 100 fixed number of seats. If the airline sells seats they can only sell all 100 seats in the inventory and when all 100 seats have been sold out they cannot sell any more. Now here is the kicker. With the point system they can sell as many points as possible way beyond the inventory they have. AND they tell the members that there is a heirarchical system that allows Chairman's level can reserve the unit first within certain time. If you have only 3000 points you are at the bottom of the totempole; as such you have nearly zero chance to get what you hope to have, and you have to go some place you don't care to go. So this point system has been invented to sell, actually oversell, beyond the inventory MVC has. This means MVC is enjoying your money you paid down naively assuming that you will be able to use the points for the location you picked. The number of deeded week owners of a MVC resort equals the total number of weeks per year multiplied by the units--this is fixed and cannot change and as such the deeded owners will get a week of a unit surely and certainly. The point system is MVC's nearly scam-like ways to sell more than they have in their inventory. The more points they sell the intrinsic value of the points you own will go down by dilution of the existing total number of points (just like the number of stocks of a company).
They can only sell as many points as the trust owns, so they can't technically oversell. However, to use your airline analogy, they have 100 seats but people only want to book the exit rows or first three rows of the plane. There are a whole bunch of empty seats that go to unused each flight and then they have too many people trying to book later flights still all wanting those exit rows and first three rows. If you don't mind sitting at the back, there are lots of open seats, but most people want the better seats. This still happened some in the weeks based system, but not nearly on the same scale because you had to book something at your resort in the season you owned. With points you can book any resort any time. Point values of individual nights is supposed to even things out, but it doesn't seem to really work that way.
Ah, but I believe the trust owns several hundreds of thousands of points. The real problem for points owners is that they are at the mercy of the weeks owners to exchange their weeks for points at the desired locations so that other points owners might have a chance to get to reserve into that location. To my knowledge, Marriott has built very few new timeshares since rolling out the points system so most resorts and especially the most desired locations all still have lots of weeks owners who must give up the week in order for a points owners to even have a chance to get into those resorts. The acquisition of Vistana properties and the automatic enrollment of vistana owners in Abound has not mitigated this situation, infact it may have made it worse. The best fix in my opinion is to build new resorts that have no weeks owners. I don't see that happening. Marriott would rather acquire existing timeshare systems.
They have built points only locations. Any Pulse location, excluding boston. It's again similar to the previous seat selection post. A lot of points owners were promised window seats and won't explore the middle seat. There is lots of open inventory, but if you only want a popular location during high demand seasons you're going to be disappointed.
With all due respect, it was a good video - but it would have been a little better if you mentioned theories or reasons why, you think the market is depressed. Has anything changed recently, in the past year? I know the cost to "activate" the points into the system is outrageous.
Thanks for the feedback. I'll take it into consideration for a future video. Thanks for watching!
Hi Jeremy, recent subscriber to your channel and thanks for all the great content. I recently bought into MVC and realise I need to get to at least Executive level (am currently at Select with 5,000 points). Will buying 2,000 points on the resale market get me up one level? Are there restrictions on using said 2,000 points to book Ritz-Carlton Club properties? Thanks in advance!
Thanks for watching and subscribing. When you buy resale points, as long as you pay the $3 per point initiation fee, they will work the same way as trust points purchased direct. So they will count toward the Owner Benefit Levels and you would be Executive. There are restrictions with the luxury resorts like Ritz Carlton. Here is a link to the benefit guide. Moving from Select to Executive removes certain restrictions on luxury resort reservations; www.marriottvacationsworldwide.com/common/cms/mvc/pdfs/owners/Owner-Benefit-Level.pdf
@@DestinationTimeshare thanks for that! I suppose one thing that doesn't transfer over is Bonvoy Elite status eg. if I buy additional 5k points to get to Presidential I won't be getting the Lifetime Titanium Elite status, correct?
@@davidkwchong8964 Bonvoy status is based on your Owner Benefit Level. So if you are Presidential you get Bonvoy status based on that. Do note, it isn't lifetime. It is only based on your ownership. If you later sell points and fall to a lower status your Bonvoy status will change too.
Buying a resale is extremely complicated , and there’s not signing bonuses , different anniversary dates …
This sounds like something a timeshare salesperson would say. Buying resale is not complicated at all. The bonuses are not worth the extra cost. I have a video that outlines that rip off. While anniversary dates can be an issue, it isn't hard to get them to line up, especially since most out there have a January use year. Thanks for watching!
? That’s base on my experience….. I didn’t understand the part of what a salesman said , no one told me it’s my experience, you a different one. Ok. It’s all about perception and experiences. But thank you. Anyways.
People that buy timeshares are brain dead, they have been brainwashed into thinking they can’t go on vacation unless they’re paying for a timeshare. With all of the money you’re paying in fees, you’re paying more than you would not having a timeshare and paying for your vacation right out smh.
You're right about certain situations but very wrong about others. Making overly broad generalizations usually make you more wrong than right. Thanks for watching!
Abound is starting to favor tiers! Presidential and up. They’re limiting access to resales as of January 1st. Meaning harder to book weeks less value!
What do you mean harder to book weeks? I own a 1 week.
@@jasongarcia560 the booking window outside of your home resort is becoming increasingly difficult to book.
What limits on resales are you referring to? I am not aware of any such restrictions for resale points.