That's like saying that teaching children to look both ways before they cross the street should be felony child abuse. Clearly, there are abusive ways to teach either lesson, but a parent who considers either to be a real danger can and should teach their child as they see fit. If you're of the opinion that parents don't have the right to impart their beliefs and values to their children, you're basically of the opinion that parents don't have the right to raise their children, period.
No that is totally opposite Thag. And there is no comparison between the two examples. In one you are truly teaching a child to be cautious to look both ways before they cross the street. In the other way you are filling their heads with fairy tales created during the Bronze and Dark Ages of humanity used to control the population through brain washing, fear, torture, threats of eternal hell fire etc. Even the Christian heaven, purgatory and hell did not take full shape theologically until Dante wrote his Divine Comedy and Milton wrote Paradise Lost. Basically it does not matter what religion, Christian, Muslim or Hebrew, you all NEED to brain-wash your kids to keep these religions going and you and your religious freak show leaders use fear and loathing and put that into innocent childrens minds and hearts so they are afraid to not follow you foolish losers.
YOU want to prohibit FREEDOM from religion. YOU have a right under the First Amendment to practice what EVER religion YOU wish. Just like I have a right to say BULLSHIT to your religion and be a Humanist Atheist. YOU or your fellow Christians have NO RIGHT to push your religious beliefs on my children in say school when YOU freaks want to force prayer and buybull reading in the damn schools. My kids have been harassed ENOUGH by religious nutbag kids trying to tell mine that they are going to burn in hell for all eternity and how their parents are Satanists because their parents are Humanist Atheists and their children have been given the right to practice ANY religion they so desire without it being forced upon them. So it works both ways Mary Yeo....or as the later Great Founding Father Thomas Jefferson once stated: "Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between church and State." Source: Letter of Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury Baptist Association, Connecticut, January 1, 1802. "Ministers of the Gospel are excluded [from serving as Visitors of the county Elementary Schools] to avoid jealousy from the other sects, were the public education committed to the ministers of a particular one; and with more reason than in the case of their exclusion from the legislative and executive functions." Source: Thomas Jefferson, Note to Elementary School Act, 1817.
I see all the nuances of my former post were completely lost on you. Your cretinous insipidity doesn't really warrant a response, but I thought I should point out that Dante and Milton aren't considered canon by any Christian denominations that I know of.
I am proud to say that my first child, my daughter (to be born on June 19th 2014) will not be raised believing she is a worthless sinner. She will be the first that I know of in my family to be raised this way and I am honored to be the one to do it.
If man is nothing more than a composition of few materialist things like atoms or sub atomic particles ... I would say a diamond is more precious than a human regardless of what one believes ( after all ... man, his actions and thoughts are nothing more than a certain pattern of atomic vibrations that was due to an external cause ). A diamond is at-least more pure in composition and doesn't cease to function with time like man. Keep a diamond or grow a plant and it might not love you but nor will it harm itself .. Bring up a child and you will gradually realize that in-spite of all your love towards that child and showing them the right paths, that child still has a free will to love you or go against your love and choose for themselves a life less than what you would love for them to have ..
Anub Philip What I hear Canon saying is not some philosophical argument about free will, sin, choice, or anything, but simply that he believes his daughter has incredible, inherent worth. I know that many people have been told, from some Christians, that we are worthless, "totally depraved", dirty, etc. from birth, and that this sense of guilt and such should motivate us by fear to repent to God, etc., etc. This, to me, is sad and a very limited view of God. When I was anticipating the birth of my first child (12 years ago), I was absolutely overwhelmed with how precious and valuable he was, before he did anything. My first priority, at that point, was to help him to learn just how loved and valuable he was. Honestly, that's largely still the case. Since then, we have talked about faith, sin, Jesus, and many deep topics. However, my passion in parenting is that both my boys understand how much they are loved, both by God and by me. Anub, I do not think it wise to say things like, "If man is nothing more than a composition of few materialist things like atoms or sub atomic particles ... I would say a diamond is more precious than a human..." until you have earned the right to confront someone on their beliefs like this, ESPECIALLY when the topic/context is the worth of his child! Canon, sorry if I'm a bit "off", here. I don't mean to stick my nose where it doesn't belong...
Ed Warkentin It's so much more than the fact that my daughter wont know what it's like to be a worthless sinner. She will never fear hell or anything supernatural. She will be able to think on her own to determine if something is right or wrong. She will not feel guilt when she finds another man or woman attractive. She will never learn that a woman is to serve her man. She will be accountable for her own wrongdoings. The list could go on but you get the point. The thing about Christianity is you have no idea how wrong it is until you know it's wrong.
As a small child this is what I was taught, and I remember having nightmares of my skin melting off and my house burning down and overall fire destroying every part of me if I didn't worship right. Scary shit right here.
When I was 4 it was just too ridiculous for me to believe, I would be tortured by my thoughts(because I had sworn) that I was instantly cursed to eternal torture, considering I was a competent 4 year old, I declared it preposterous.
@@alexlink4623 Lucky for you then. Generally, children of that age eat up what they are given and believe their parents with little question, only really thinking critically starting around puberty. Let's not make that their fault, it's how the human brain works.
@@walrusmayonaisesandw you actually just allow the child to think for themselves. It’s not that complicated. They can believe or not believe in whatever they want.
As someone who was raised to be a mindless Christian, this was all I was taught. Thankfully none of this sunk in. This is flat out child abuse, it gives kids false information, and does long lasting damage to their psyche.
Alecto Anarchy you were lucky for years of my youth my mothers family had my brain in a blender. and it feels like such a waste knowing that I was brainwashed for 80% of my youth. but I still have 100 years left of my life so not all is lost. the family name deserves its place on the ash heap so if they don't get what they want it wouldn't bother me one bit. they would only be dying for thier ego. nevermind that they should be proud of what I grew up to be an asexual\ activist \ writer and the king of transgender rights
Madaly Murray O"Hair was the one who attempted to use child abuse on our own kids by trying to take away children"s rights to enjoy and celebrate Christmas . She was an old lying hag .
Many tell their THREE-year-olds, before they have any idea of what it means, to thank Jesus for saving them, without any context all, so as to prime them for the overall teachings of the Christian concept later throughout childhood. They want to get 'em while they're young, and are completely oblivious to the fact that it's extremely harmful.
Seth, I don't know if you'll ever read this, but these videos, especially ones like this, were instrumental in opening my mind. You had a huge impact on mu life. "The fog of superstition has lifted, and I have a breathtaking view of a better world."
It is scary that people actually believe 100% of this. It is absolutely horrifying that people who make decisions that affect the lives of hundreds of millions of people also believe 100% this. It shakes me to my core that these people act, vote, and behave to satisfy these ends regardless of consequence or sound opposition.
Now the first thing in any battle is to💣 define your enemy to identify your enemy before you decide how you can overcome him you've got to identify him you've got to be sure you've identified the right enemy never pray against people because you're not wrestling against flesh and blood human beings are not the enemies we are wrestling against beings without bodies we are wrestling against the devil himself👿
And just think, there are people who are justices on the United States Supreme Court who said at their confirmation hearings that they would not use their religious beliefs to interpret the laws!
I'm such a good christian that I can spot a saved baby from a non-saved baby, just by the unapologetic look in its eye. DON'T ACT LIKE YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU DID BABY!!!
It is fascinating how absurd Christianity sounds when the basic concepts are laid out so matter-of-factly like this without all the bells and whistles that usually accompany religious teaching. I would LOVE to see a video like this from the perspective of Islamic indoctrination--accurately described, i.e., without the usual caricatures, such that it would resonate with actual Muslims.
This is powerful and concise. When I was a Christian, when these questions would come to me, I would just shut them down. I'm a lot happier now that I'm free, and I wish I could get all those years back.
This video continues to deeply move me and I am, so impressed with everything about it. I feel that it accurately reflects the teachings I was exposed to as a child.
@@AteoEticoCaboRojo Okay, let's just ignore what the *VIDEO* told us about the teaching of children that they are worthless and a sinner to a "certain someone." Child abuse, brain-washing at its finest level.
kaitlyn zuniga same I eventually managed to shake off the effects of thier brainwashing. but believe me it feels like such a waste knowing that I was brainwashed for 80% of my youth. but I still have 100 years left of my life so not all is lost. besides the family name deserves its place on the ash heap so if they don't get what they want it wouldn't bother me at all. they would only be dying for thier ego. nevermind that they should be proud of what I grew up to be an asexual activist\ writer and the king of transgender rights
I am so glad to be raising my 16-month-old religion free. I am also glad that I broke free of myth and superstition back in the summer of 2011. I cannot believe people believe this.
As a child raised in a Christian household, I find this video.... very well-made and good. Honestly, when I was a kid, the concept of heaven seemed kinda boring: I mean, eternity in paradise where all you get to do is praise God? Isn't that just an eternal church service? Am I allowed to bring my laptop to heaven?
+Christian Calso I used to ask my Mom if I could bring toys to heaven, or if the animals would come to. I thought it was cruel they'd all disappear, when they could so eaily be saved. She merely replied: They are tools.
Holy fuck!, I can't believe I haven't yet subscribed to this wonderful channel. That changes today, thanks for making me cry the freaking snot out with this amazingly powerful video, I can't wait to share it. Magnificent!
yeah as a child I had the wool over my eyes in sunday school but when I got older I questioned the whole religion thing. now when my kids ask me about it I will not sugar coat it for em.
Absolutely Brilliant video. It moves me on so many levels because it is exactly what I was taught as a child in Parochial School many years ago. But this IS the message of Christianity. Why can't some people see the horror of it?
This is a stupid anti - Christian video , Christians do not talk to babies like this and you know it . No one talks to a baby like this . Babies are gifts from God and they are not old enough to know what sin is .
This rocked me when I was A Christian. I was just born a Christian and never thought much about it. As of now my logic can't reconcile with the three major religions that I studied in school.
Gassmann Romain LOL your real science is just as bad and full of bs as those religious fairy tales. Funny how you do not seem to see the same people who brought you those fairy tales are giving you other ones on an everlasting basis.
GrinchDec23 Funny how you're using 'fairy tales' to communicate with me. If you believe that science is just a bunch of fairy tales, then so be it. As for myself, I'll keep studying and try to understand the universe.
In a way, I wish I was ignorant. Even as a little kid, I never truly believed in God. I just couldn't be fed bull crap. But this is harsh reality, I guess. There is no happiness after death, or torture or any of that. It's just death. But I wish I could believe in this God... and feel like I could be saved and taken to some magic world in the sky after I die. But no. there is no salvation. And you know what? Maybe I'm fine with it. It just gives me more incentive to live life to it's fullest. Because, Dammit, I'll say this only once, and for once, I won't regret it! YOLO! ... Nevermind, I regret that phrase completely.
Devin Moores dont fear, when push comes to shove, you are more likely to be accepted by a god you dont believe, then to worship the devils work. god loves atheists, they are the closest we can come to be in his image anyways. so just do as me, be a happy agnostic atheist and live life, and surely if there is a god, you still win in the end. :)
Devin Moores just think in these terms, most of the believers look at life as a test, and you are either rewarded with heaven for it, or punished to hell for it. however the test they follow is "belong to this religion and accept this god, then reject all other gods and dont be tempted" also submit your "free will" so that you can kneel before a god and do as he says, if you do not do this, you will go to hell and so on. thats a stupid test, they also use satan as a trickster that wants you to fail this test. okey? xD so, they say that humans are created in the image of god. would he submit to someone else? would he follow someone elses rules? i think to be as close to god (they also say that in holybooks) you dont need to accept him, know him, talk to him, or even understand and follow "his rules". to be close to god, is to be close to the image of him. lets say that he is as awasome as they describe him in the books. well, then he is intelligent, good, creative, an artists and so on. so be intelligent, good, creative, compasionate and help and comunicate work together with other images of "god". then you are closer to his image etc. i mean, if you kneel to a god, then your nothing like in his image, i dont believe in god. but the god they describe, i cannot think that he would ever kneel to anybody. thats out of his character :P so, if we just look at life as a test, then the test would more likely be to just be as good of an image of him as we could. looking at satan/devil as a trickster, there would be a far more better trick for him to create alot of religions, and try to make people believe in god like he depicts it, so in that case, belonging to a religious belief you are actually fooled by the trickster satan, because submitting yourself would mean to be totally out of character of the image of god. this would also make this rest universal, say 1000years ago, religion was not global, but the disbelief of god was. and a god would not create people to be doomed to hell without a chance would he? what im saying is, if there is a god, and if there is a test, and if there is a reward at the end. then its more likely that the test is to not believe in a religion, but instead just be a good, intelligent, critical, creative and kind human. that religion is actually the devils tool to poison that image into a slave like, shackled and submitted person (as far from what i would believe the image of god would be). therefor atheists in their disbelief, if they are good and kind should have a ticket to heaven. since they are critical and intelligent enough to not fall for the trickster satan and his many creations of religion :)
I am the same, I have never believed in God. Nobody has ever convinced me and the more people (including my parents) tried to convince me, the more I didn't believe it. You shouldn't question The Bible they would say. Why, not? The loop began. You just shouldn't. In a weird way, I think it would be easier for me to believe in a god, than to understand why 80% of America believes in a god. But than I think about how they have been indoctrinated and realize why they believe. But I did and I still do. It bothers me that so many are in denial of reality, not to mention how it is being shoved down my throat. Who would want to worship someone or something for eternity anyways? That sounds like hell, not heaven! Ignorance is bliss.That is why children are always happy. That is why people say "children's innocence" is at stake when you tell them the truth. Weird thing is we (humans in general) don't want that innocence to go away and we keep them from that truth. So, basically we as a society would rather have us all delusional dancing in the street, singing away and as long as we are happy....wow, I may be on to something here...Nope! I prefer the truth...Ignorance is bliss and the truth hurts...Welcome to humanity! Did I tell my child that there is a Santa? Damn right I did! When he said "My friend said that your parents give you the gifts, not Santa." I responded "Would it matter if that were true?" He said No. Years later, he asked again and I told him that Santa was real and that everybody is Santa, even him. He liked that. I didn't want to remove the childhood experience due to my atheism, who didn't like getting gifts as a kid. He asked to go to church with a friend. We don't go to church. I, of course, allowed him to go. He said he wasn't sure if he should go because of what I have told him (my lack of belief) and because I have always told him investigate and make your own decision instead of being influenced by what others say. My response was that isn't that what you are doing by not wanting to go. I told him he was being influenced by me to not go. The light turned on and he said okay I am going. He loved it, he played with the other kids and had fun. He didn't even mention God. Just things I have done, it's tough making the right calls but I believe those were a few that I made that worked. Fuck, I wrote a book. Title To whom it may concern, or Who Fucking Cares. You went too far Frank! Good luck, Cheers!
Well choreographed and very poignant. It’s heartbreaking knowing children are born everyday into a unforgiving world to start with. Then they are given the weight of convoluted religious emotional inventory.
spaveevo I agree: it's from the Thinking Atheist website, but the problem is that most religious people do not have the intellectual capacity to understand the message of this video. If you "believe" you will "believe". But i am so happy that the Thinking Atheist is making these quality video's...even if they will make only a few people think and reflect who are religious...about the madness of their religion...
xerox1959" most religious people do not have the intellectual capacity to understand the message of this video" Why do you suppose religious people managed to be in the majority while having such low intellectual capacity? According to the law of natural selection they should not have been able to adapt well enough with the changes in the environment to survive right?
My girlfriend is Catholic and is currently pregnant with our first child... I see it as one of my great missions not to have the child grow up feeling this kind of guilt and theological angst.
@@skulldini1766 This is true, but only up to a point. I've found that, in the same way that Mormons force themselves to be friendly, Catholics force themselves to act accepting. However, the inability of a Catholic--or at least, a specific type of Catholic--to embrace questioning is staggering. The fundamentalists I've talked to have more usually been urbane and engaged in the face of my questions; although their answers are incredibly fatuous, I find that the culture is better able to not take offense than Mama's form of belief. It's a strange paradox.
+Casson Scowcroft Very simple. Turn off reason hence religion and belief in any fucking bullshit thrown. Religitards are the most pathetic of all groups.
Anyone who doesn't think a baby isn't sinful has never seen how toddlers naturally act selfishly and hostile to anyone who takes a toy they want to play with.
@@TheImpactEditor Baby = Toddler. Nice way to put a comparison. Toddlers are selfish but that they have not yet known what it means to share. That doesn't mean they are evil (sinner)
@@TheImpactEditor If we see it in an objective way, toddlers *NEED* a lot of attention. That is why I see wrong in calling the babies "selfish" or "sinners" They are not. Babies are indeed, needs a lot of attention and care. They may act selfishly but then again you must understand the very nature of what babies and/or toddlers are. They can't survive, they need someone to teach them, their brains aren't *as developed as what a teenager possesses.* But if you actually train your toddler to be nice and adapts to "being nice" in the future than that is the proof that they were mindless in their actions when they were toddlers. Or they couldn't understand the actions they were doing. You can't force a baby or toddler to understand complex stuff when they were just born 8 months ago or 2 years ago (unless with special parenting care or genius aspect) Their brains are not capable of that.
I was subjected to indoctrination as a child. It is hard for me to watch this. I remember, though I'm 60 years old, I remember. I won't forget. I won't forgive. You stole my life from me. It took decades to escape your lies. But I did. Too late. I gave up everything for you but you betrayed me. No, I don't forgive; I don't forget...
It genuinely enrages me that you had so much of your limited time on this planet wasted on things that aren't even true. I am genuinely so sorry and glad you'll never forgive them for taking your life, they don't deserve it. Thank you for your comment. I become more of an anti-theist every day. I hate watching people waste literally their entire existence preparing for an afterlife that doesn't exist. We have so few hours we even get to spend conscious in this reality and religion is stealing all of them. /End rant (Sorry if my comment is inappropriate.)
Once again Seth, a brilliant video. It brought goosebumps all over me and I never even had to deal with this type of phone call. My father did however tell me (He's not even Christian, just some woo-woo form of deism) that I believe NOTHING at all, atheists believe in NOTHING. I've explained it to him so many times...he says that I am proof of Gods existence. I suppose someday I'll understand when I get my own children but right now I can't even speak about atheism with my secular non-religious family. How bizarre.
I remember going to church and having to pray forgiveness for killing Jesus. That was my first "what the fuck" moment in church. Somehow I killed Jesus. Me. Some 8 year old kid. I felt horrible. I felt like I was being accused of an actual murder. I knew I would never do something like that. But I couldn't say anything. I had to sit in this thought for an hour while the preacher told us about the sins we're responsible for but didn't actually commit. "But church is good!"
I would never say these things to my future kids. That's horrible. But I will encourage them to think for themselves, to research and make their own judgements and what they want to do in life. Never will I force them to be something I want them to be.
I like this Chinese three character classic that says that people are born good. They're natures are similar, but they're habits make them different from each other. It helps me to trust people, and not think they're naturally evil and are trying to rid them of their evil ways.
The scary thing of course is that children have no choice but to believe what their parents tell them... No matter how bizarre it sounds to an outsider (or to an apostate like me). And the Christian religious instruction summarized here - which I received for about 12 years - is not even the worst one on the planet. I escaped without threat of death. If this baby were born to Muslim parents he might even be told that besides going to hell AND being executed for giving up the faith, his duty was to KILL anyone else who did so.
As a parent who let his son follow his own spiritual path I felt the effect of this deeply. I am atheist but feel everyone must make their own choice so supported my sons decision to be Christian from start to finish. He stopped believing because of the contradictions he saw without me pointing them out. The most painful times were seeing him in tears because he had done things wrong and was scared this would land him in hell. My opinion anyone who sees this and pushes it further must be warped.
Your channel is what made me not feel alone as a non-believer when I was in high school well over a decade ago. I searched for online atheist communities after watching a couple of your videos. I grew up in the south (bible belt) and genuinely thought I was the only non-believer. This is one of the first videos I watched that really solidified that the religion I grew up with was oppressive and had no ruling in my life anymore. Thank you for being outspoken.
Born in a country where you are free to choose what religion you want to be and everybody must respect each other's religion, *EXCEPT FOR BEING AN ATHEIST*
Thank you Seth for allowing people to see what is going on here. As a former believer I applaud you for making this and it stands to show that people should not be scared to question what we a told to believe. Think, discover, explore and participate. This is a perfect example of how you can twist any subject to suit any need whith enough effort. This is the same method that has been used by churches for years to brainwash control and sad to say scare their followers. It is the human condition.
Took me many years to break free from all of the brainwashing done to me from my childhood. I don't blame my parents for it though..they were brainwashed too. It a vicious cycle.
Isn't it terrifying having religious parents? I was very lucky to be born into a long line of non-theists: scientists, engineers and musicians. I'm one of a very fortunate minority. We need to get the rationalist message across and the sooner the better for all of mankind.
I can't help but be brought to tears watching this. It is a reminder of how much I have failed Christ if in fact he did live. I am an atheist that was once a Christian, and my decision has brought with it a sense of guilt. Has this happened to anyone else?
Freedom comes at a price. While the idea of God traps a person into guilt and fear because he'll sent us to hell if we disobey him, but once you realize "He" was only an idea, then you'll be free.
Yes. Me too. We are responding to our programming, just as POW respond to brainwashing techniques. Religion uses our natural desire to be just people against us, guilting us into believing we are good for nothing... and that without believing without proof, we are somehow behaving unjustly. But we know better. Deprogramming takes time and support of those who have been down that road. But you can get though it! The human mind is stronger than mythology.
I have to say that I felt the opposite effect. I kind of felt like the weight of the world was lifted from my shoulders. No more trying to please some invisible god with impossible standards. As the years have gone on I have felt more and more free from the yoke of religion and now am almost angry that I spent so much of my life being told all of this nonsense. I think that once you eventually realize the enormous impossibility that any of this was true you will feel the same. You have not failed anyone Brian. In my view it is nothing but impossible that any part of Christianity was ever true or even intended to have been believed as truth. I will tell you that I spent nearly 2 years leaving the church as I was very reluctant to believe that it could be true that I wasted so much of my life on such nonsense. In the end, I was so 100% positive that christianity was false that there was no guilt at all. I don't know how your journey has progressed that you became an atheist but if you need any help please let me know. I would be happy to share some things with you to help you better understand the process.
Brian, it takes time to let go of the negative emotions that religion would have you embrace. Hang in there and look for other rational, thinking, non-believers in your area for support.
This video almost made me cry. I'm 18 and stuck at home until I finish college and pay off my loans. I'm transgendered (MTF) and my bible reading, fox news watching parents punish me for it. They're always yelling at me and calling it a phase even though I've been this way for over 2 years. My counselor has told them repeatedly that they need to stop. Conservative parents reading this, please think of your kids. Love them before ancient fairy tales. You wouldn't sacrifice them for Zeus, why god?
+roder51 lol what? You don't even know me! I think you can't read, because my comment never defended a book. For you to use the word "religitard" on me is ridiculous. You're just trolling, aren't you?
the hardest thing is to guide the loved ones out of it. especially when you make them question god, and they get all paranoid to the point of thinking that a simple flat tire, is divine punishment.
This makes me so sad... but at least my little girl won't be raised having to believe this. Maybe things will be different when she is my age... one can hope.
This video makes me sad. Just wrong how a person could actually look at a baby being born corrupt from what supposed people did a long ass time ago. If the teachings of this religion isn't about holding a grudge, I don't know what is.
I've welcomed so many young children into this world, and I cry when I think of the number of people in their lives who will attempt to deceive them as they themselves were once deceived, and how long it will likely take them to realize the truth, and how unlikely it is that they will ever see a better alternative than passing on the same deception as if it is the only way to prevent people from becoming evil. It's not the only way. In fact, it's not even a good way and it often fails. :(
I feel like your humbleness in regards to the unknown and known of reality is a reflection of a love for God. Not the God depicted as an old bearded man who resides in the sky, but the God that escapes our imagination to which humanity continually strives to know while exploring deeply inside and outside of ourselves.
I believe what the Bible says even if it has been mistranslated and corrupted over the years. It was inspired by God because it says that it was. Like if something is on the Internet, it must be true. My faith is the basis for my belief. I have faith that what I believe is true. The earth is flat.
as an atheist i can say i understand where they are going with this message, but honestly i see no difference between this and the hell scare tactics that evangelicals use on their children anyways, i could easily just see some christian forcing their kid to watch this as a way to scare them into believing what they want them to. so while us atheists/agnostics get the message i don't think the point is made clear enough to Christians how horrible and detrimental to a child their message really is.
The daily help varies from holding a door for someone, giving lifts to unsuccessfully trying to revive someone after an accident. When my son attended church many struggled with the fact we chipped in more than most others there without faith in their deity or seeking eternal reward. We cannot get rid of sin on our own, was true for me. But I work to make myself a decent person without the needing religion to promote it. When I do, I seek forgiveness from those I have wronged not a third party.
Is there anyway to turn this into a videogame. This is an amazing exposition and it should not be wasted. Just a bit of adjustment of the plot, maybe Satan trying to overthrow god at the time of rapture or some shit. You play as Satan of course, or maybe the anti-Christ and you don't know it, you figure it out and your destiny to rebel against god as your father did. Having been raised as a Christian yourself you try to deny it at first, but after seeing the evil acts of god for yourself later you turn against god and lead the battle to destroy him and his kingdom. Not in the act of accepting the prophecies to be true, but to correct what you feel to be wrong. Too much too soon, FIRSTLY. can someone do it?
Seth Kunert Yeah, Christianity like many religions has some really epic and awesome myths. Look at shipping and other intra-fandom wars, then back at the real-life results of religions and it's certainly...interesting, in that sorrowful kind of way, how humans have so much potential to take something fictional and become so attached that they take it far too seriously. In slightly cheerier news, it's those very same core human responses that makes TV Tropes articles on religion, the Bible, and history more amusing to read. Fannon decrees, fandom wars and base breakers, etc.
The bible could make a great first person shooter. In the first level or 'Old Testament' level you: Start out being a character called 'god' and you get to blast all guns blazing into nothingness with no particular target and once you fire off say 100 rounds then BOOM the universe appears. After you get the universe you have a selection of targets to shoot. You have to navigate your way though the universe shooting all the planets, stars, and galaxies (there are quite a few billion of them to choose from) you just created but you don't earn any points until you hit a tiny insignificant looking 'pale blue dot' called 'Earth'. This opens up the next sub-level in the game where you shoot using your powered up lightening gun to zap the earth in one particular location and create a garden (points are gained for additional animals and plants you create - don't worry you get the pleasure to kill almost all of them later in a horrible way). You then have to use your 'manna' power up powers to make a creature you call 'man' out of dirt or mud and another creature you call 'woman' out of the rib of the first. You then need to blast a tree with evil (knowledge) and you then get to use your persecution powers on your creations because they touched it after you told them not to no matter how beautiful the tree is. These persecution powers make the 'man' fire tadpole shaped bullets into the stomach of the 'woman' to activate the re-spawn feature of the game. Now that you have completed the first sub-level you are transported forward in a time portal and you emerge as a character named 'Moses'. Your old 'god' character hasn't gone far but he now transfers his will though 'Moses' who hears ever word 'god' says (this sub-level is where the first person shooter comes into it's own). Moses is armed with the 'Sword of Righteousness' and unlimited ammo. You now proceed to various cities following though mazes of buildings with climbing challenges and pits to cross etc... where there are innocent people going about their own business. Your task as Moses is to kill as many of these people as you can find. Killing an innocent man is worth 4 times the bonus points for killing a woman but you can get special bonus for killing children. During this level you are also looking for virgin women who you may take as your bounty and extra bonus 'booty' point. In some cities you get to change characters such as 'Lot', 'David' (armed with 'Slingshot of Giant Slaying'), or 'Noah' who gets to be a bit of a ship builder and animal herder ('god' intervenes here and uses water cannons to drown every living creature apart from those on the boat), as well as a bunch of other characters that get to use swords and stones against various innocent groups of people. In the second level called 'New Testament' level you take on the role of a character called 'Jesus'. The backstory to this level is partly in the first level but is enhanced with lineage of your character. Jesus was conceived by god (who underwent a total personality change for this level) via an angel in the womb of a woman called 'Mary' who swears she'd never had sex before and who was destined to marry another man 'Joseph' who she was seeing at the time and your character Jesus will eventually be a king of kings. Although Jesus's lineage however states that to be a King he needed to be the son of king. Thus he was product of approximately 35 'Son of David' who was the son of this person or son of that person about 35 times over. God doesn't actually feature in this lineage and given that in ancient times it was believed that the males 'carry the king genes' and Joseph wasn't related in that lineage to David. Look, don't think to hard about this and just believe it. MAGIC!!! You are a king and son of god and are god's physical representation of himself in this level - MAGIC!!! You start the level being introduced as a child to 3 wise potential paedophiles who bring gifts. After this sub-level you are transported forward in time about 30 years (you can earn bonus points if you find the secret intervening years door where you get to make Ikea furniture and different items earn different points) You now proceed as Jesus where you gain points by slapping the sick, lame, and poor with you 'hand of compassion' to heal them. You can earn points for dividing up a few fishes and loaves of bread to feed as many people as possible with a point per person. If you reach 5000 then you get special bonus points for being not only the king of kings but also the 'king of thinnest sliced sushi' or the 'king of catching the biggest whale in sand hills' so the food goes around (whichever you feel is more plausible - MAGIC!!!). You also go around with your other hand - the 'hand of condemnation' where you get to slap sinners and those who don't believe you; who are burned and tortured forever in front of your followers. Next you have personal relationship with 12 men who follow you everywhere and do everything you ask of them - and I mean 'anything' ;). At this stage you also reject the advances of women and don't allow them to be your direct followers as you prefer men to follow you and be closest to you. The next sub-level sees you a garden and you are attacked by soldiers. You use your 'turned cheek' powers but to no avail and you are nailed to billboard frame. Don't worry though as you have a re-spawn power that kicks in 3 days later and you disappear forever. To round out this first person shooter level your followers tell others about their experiences, who tell others, who tell others, who a number of generations later write some of these stories down and work out which bits of the stories that they liked and didn't like and publish a book in a language that few people could read and is easily mistranslated later. It is the followers of this book who are called 'Christians' who you get to play in the final stages of the game. In this final stage you as a Christian are waiting for Jesus to return and while you are waiting you must spread the word of this book to make others believe in it and if they don't believe in it then they are to be killed or tortured. Sub-levels include the 'Crusades' (popular with swords and lots of blood against a new breed of infidels), the 'Dark ages' (also popular with inventive ways of killing and hurting powerless people with special bonus points for dismemberment of unbelievers while they are alive), the 'Enlightenment' when Christians feel threatened by the demons of 'Reason' and 'Science' and they fight back with 'pseudo science' and 'Christian science' (special bonus points still awarded for getting into politics, killing people in the lands of the infidels with machine guns, RPGs, missiles, etc..., and torturing the scientists with 'Ken Ham' reasoning). The game ends when you along with millions of other Christians just waiting and waiting and waiting for Jesus to come back to 'Rapture' you and to annihilate everyone else.... Actually this is a bit of a tragic ending to a game. Tragic as you don't realise that you have wasted your life playing a game. Do you think this game would sell? Probably, since the book it is based on is on best sellers lists (under fiction I hope) and read and believed my millions of people around the world - unfortunately.
What I find truly appalling is the way Christians condemn non believers. They gloat, smirk and get misty eyed and can hardly wait to see us burn in hell. If hell really exist and suppose I landed in heaven, I won't ever feel good or be happy knowing that many people I cared for and once loved are burning in pain while I am living in absolute bliss. For that reason alone, heaven won't ever be a place of happiness for me and many others. No sin or crime deserves infinite punishment for finite crime. That's not love in any stretch of imagination.
According to most Christians you'll be ok with knowing that you're friends and family are roasting. If that's so, then it won't be you. It'll be some version of you that's had its memory wiped. That's why the afterlife according to the Bible is false
For the record, I'm atheist (super true!), but even if christians were right about heaven (they are not), who wants to be a man's slave forever.... About torture in (fake) hell, its pointless. Why the hell would you be punished forever, the point of mistakes is you learn from them, so you don't make them again. *facepalm* christianity is stupid T_T
My parents didn't teach me about Hell growing up. I eventually learned about that on my own. When you give a shiny coin to a curious toddler, don't act surprised when they look at the other side
This whole thing is a backwards misrepresentation, and not subtly so. 1. No, they are not asking forgiveness for what others did, but for what they do to others. Sin is what we do, and are responsible for in our actions. Adam and Eve's sin was the first, and theirs alone. Nothing more, nothing less. 2. Who ever said we had to ask forgiveness for what we did to Jesus? What happened to Jesus was deliverance for us, sacrifice for him. It is the foundation of Christianity, without which there would be no Christianity. He took it upon himself to do this for us, so that we would have a way to peace and life in the here and now and afterwards. Through suffering of his life and earthly end, Jesus became a part of our pain and did not remain distant from it. And yet, it led to the resurrection which opened a window of hope for us all. 3 Tithes are based on God's commandment to the Israelites in Exodus, where a collection was taken up and needed to prepare for and maintain the coming kingdom in the promised land, and was required of the Israelites. In a very real sense, it was their taxation system. In modern times, it is a reflection of the commandment to support the poor and the church. In the early church, it was done specifically to help the poor. Today, the onus is on the church to be responsible with these offerings, which it is debatable if it's doing a very good job of this. However, to characterize tithing as something God specifically laid out for today's church, neglect of which being a punishable offense, is debatable despite all appearances. 4. The great commission is not about convincing others to believe and live as you do. It's about sharing what Christ did and to offer that hope. The message of Jesus is quite simple, "love your God with all your heart, and your neighbor as yourself". I realize the creators of this video do not share that expression. I also realize the church does a poor job with this. I can only offer this quote in defense "Religion is the expression of spirituality". The church is man's best attempt at following Christ's example, but is still based in man. 5. Praising God without end is some people's assumptions. Some believers I've talked to find this agreeable, others think it would make for a very boring afterlife. Those who find it agreeable tend to strike me as those who have a fairly unhealthy low self esteem issue of varying sorts, usually with a helping of legalism. It seems like they feel heaven would be a place for them to pay penance for their shortcomings as payment to God. Truth is, we know little about heaven except for some references to it as a dwelling prepared for us where we will live with God forever, and what we find in Revelations: "Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away ... I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God ... And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away." It sounds to me like a place of rest after a long journey, where we are finally united with God. The real question we should ask here is why we had this first earth when the second was so much better? I can't answer that except to say there may be some experiences in this life that would be impossible in the next, even if it is heaven. If there is a god, there would have to be value in this experience worth the troubles, finally understood when all is revealed. 6. Timothy Keller has an excellent video on TH-cam on hell. I recommend that as my response to this, except to say I find I don't think about hell much. That which would make hell "hell" to me is overcome by Jesus, even if I still struggle with some things now. I'm sure that sounds like nonsense, but it would be a bit more clear if you watch Keller's video. In the end, we can Biblically assess that the lake of fire was intended for Satan, and that hell is a place of gnashing of teeth and separation from God. Not sure the two are connected. That said, the argument of an odd dichotomy between a loving god and hell is not lost on me. I would point out on sin though, that even Paul in Romans 7 tells of his struggles with sin "For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do-this I keep on doing." This is a church father speaking on it. And this is not a "before he was saved" expression as some would say. Not two verses later he says "So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me." Find in the present tense. He didn't just perform accidental sins, he struggled with them. Yet, he had the hope "Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!" You don't earn this gift folks, and perhaps the common conception on hell isn't correct. Jesus was not another goat sacrificed on a shrine. He came to finish it. I reserve any judgement on condemning anyone to hell, even those who made this video who clearly don't claim to believe, on this pretense. I'm sure none of this changes anyone's mind here. But, I hope if you look to create arguments against a belief system you find ludicrous, you will take the time to understand that system objectively. I feel this video misrepresented what we believe, though it may not be so much so when it comes to the church itself. Really, really cute baby btw!
I think most people subbed here have a pretty thorough understanding of what the bible says. Unfortunately, people who spend their lives analyzing reality see there is just no solid proof for any divine intervention in human history, and the books of religion are severely flawed and man-made. You may have wasted a large portion of your day..
Aw, Moon, he didn't do it for nothing. I shall reply with a point-by-point rebuttal! 1) In a way you are right, but you are also wrong as follows: Were the Bible true, we have a "sinful nature" and our mortality is the fault of Adam and Eve. In other words, we are punished for the "original sin". Because of this "original sin", we will "sin" and therefore are required to ask forgiveness not for (as stated in the video) the sins of others, but rather because of said sins. If the writer had only said "because of" that statement would have been wholly correct. But in a way what the writer said is correct, because the doctrine of original sin as shown in this video is still taught by many Catholics. 2) Sadly, it is common (though I hear it is getting better) in many Catholic school systems for nuns to teach this terrible idea to children. I imagine this is because it is an excellent way to induce guilt, which helps control the population. If you are a Protestant, it is highly unlikely you've even heard about this until now. I know I didn't until I married a woman who was raised Catholic. This is extra-scriptural, certainly but this part of the video is correct for those raised as my wife was (no small part of the population believes this. Perhaps you could send mission trips to Catholic-dominated areas instead of other places. After all, most Protestants believe that if you never have heard about God, you won't have to stay in hell, because Jesus will come down and bust you out, like a boss. Following that logic, it is better to correct any heinously incorrect understandings first, so that the message is much more unified.) 3) You are wrong. There is no mischaracterization here. The bible absolutely states that the firstfruits of all one produces should be given to honor God in Proverbs 3:9. It is clearly not all about giving to the poor, because if you read the story of the impoverished giver (Mark 12:41-44), Jesus praised her giving all that she had. Using such an extreme example is what causes the poor to donate to their church, when they can't actually afford it. I've been involved with church pantries giving food to people who tithed. As a PK, I was able to find out that some of those poor souls were pretty much getting back what they paid in. These people would be better off psychologically if they didn't have to put themselves in a position of needing help (no one likes that sort of insecurity and few people actually like asking for handouts). And in very few of the chapters speaking on tithing do they actually mention the poor. That is a good assumption, but we can't know it. All of the mentions I recall regarding the tithe being for the poor are from the NT. The OT, never says what the goods tithed are for other that God saying he wants it (ex: Malachi 3:8-12). And there is this specific verse that countermands the idea that it is for the poor or for governance alone in the OT. Numbers 18:25-31. Check it out. It is "dedicated" to God. Bah. I much prefer the NT tithing for the poor, but despise that the poor are encouraged to give as well. 4) Majorly wrong here. Let me post the Great Commission for you (NIV). "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you." Making disciples IS making them believe as you do. Teaching them to obey his commands is definitely more pushy than simply sharing the message. 5) Most people get a picture of unceasing worship in heaven from Revelation 4:8-11. In Revelation 5:12-13, 100 million angels sing praises and worship to Jesus, immediately followed by everything alive in heaven and on earth praising god aloud. This is irrelevant, but I find the number chosen by the writer to be amusing, as I'm guessing it was bigger than he could conceptualize. I mean, how could one even guesstimate 100 million when they see it? Anyway, after that digression I will laugh with you. Hahah, that fancy fact-filled easily understood book of revelation tells us what heaven will be like. We know this. Also, the book is not called Revelations. Now, considering that this god wants our worship here and now, why would this god want us to stop worshiping him when we get to heaven? All this video said is that you will be given the privelege of praising god without end. And that would be true, though perhaps not be unceasingly. 6) All I have to say to that crap is found in Revelation, that oh-so-fact-filled and not-at-all-induced-by-some-physical-agent book. In the twentieth chapter, verses thirteen through fifteen, if you wish to read along: "The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire." First of all, LOL at the paganism so obviously introduced. Second of all, did you say that we can Bibically assess that the lake of fire was intended for Satan and that hell is a place of gnashing of teeth and separation from G - OH WAIT, I just read the three verses that just undid all that carefully drawn out work of garbage on the video you did a poor job of pointing us to. (I had to listen to several with names that indicated they may be the one you mean) So, in all, your assessment of the video's accuracy is poor. I find you to be correct on point 2 (except for a subset of Christians) and partially correct on point 1 (unless you are in that previously mentioned subset). You overreacted to what was said to make your 5th point, you haven't studied the Bible well enough to understand that point 3 is not correct. You misunderstood the prime directive of the religion in point 4. Finally, for point 6, you showed us that instead of reading the Bible and trying to make sense of it yourself, you listen to apologists who don't use the most salient points in the Bible to uphold their arguments.
I wont read 72 lines of your babble, however I will say that in your first point you made, you already contradict the bible. We are born with sin according to your wonderful book of hate. That's where baptism comes from is it not? If "sin is what we do, and are responsible for in our actions,) then how is a new born child qualify as a sinner? Derp derp derp.
I think no sicker than the nature of our brain, we're simply sponges with a fixed biological set of beliefs exchange mechanics. I am robot. Everything comes to exist from our human nature, from nature, from the cosmos, from the infinite in and endless organic flow. Or maybe not.
Threatening a child with hell should be felony child abuse.
You want to prohibit religious liberty. You're a tyrant and bigot.
That's like saying that teaching children to look both ways before they cross the street should be felony child abuse. Clearly, there are abusive ways to teach either lesson, but a parent who considers either to be a real danger can and should teach their child as they see fit. If you're of the opinion that parents don't have the right to impart their beliefs and values to their children, you're basically of the opinion that parents don't have the right to raise their children, period.
No that is totally opposite Thag. And there is no comparison between the two examples. In one you are truly teaching a child to be cautious to look both ways before they cross the street. In the other way you are filling their heads with fairy tales created during the Bronze and Dark Ages of humanity used to control the population through brain washing, fear, torture, threats of eternal hell fire etc.
Even the Christian heaven, purgatory and hell did not take full shape theologically until Dante wrote his Divine Comedy and Milton wrote Paradise Lost.
Basically it does not matter what religion, Christian, Muslim or Hebrew, you all NEED to brain-wash your kids to keep these religions going and you and your religious freak show leaders use fear and loathing and put that into innocent childrens minds and hearts so they are afraid to not follow you foolish losers.
YOU want to prohibit FREEDOM from religion. YOU have a right under the First Amendment to practice what EVER religion YOU wish. Just like I have a right to say BULLSHIT to your religion and be a Humanist Atheist.
YOU or your fellow Christians have NO RIGHT to push your religious beliefs on my children in say school when YOU freaks want to force prayer and buybull reading in the damn schools. My kids have been harassed ENOUGH by religious nutbag kids trying to tell mine that they are going to burn in hell for all eternity and how their parents are Satanists because their parents are Humanist Atheists and their children have been given the right to practice ANY religion they so desire without it being forced upon them.
So it works both ways Mary Yeo....or as the later Great Founding Father Thomas Jefferson once stated:
"Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between church and State."
Source: Letter of Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury Baptist Association, Connecticut, January 1, 1802.
"Ministers of the Gospel are excluded [from serving as Visitors of the county Elementary Schools] to avoid jealousy from the other sects, were the public education committed to the ministers of a particular one; and with more reason than in the case of their exclusion from the legislative and executive functions."
Source: Thomas Jefferson, Note to Elementary School Act, 1817.
I see all the nuances of my former post were completely lost on you. Your cretinous insipidity doesn't really warrant a response, but I thought I should point out that Dante and Milton aren't considered canon by any Christian denominations that I know of.
I am proud to say that my first child, my daughter (to be born on June 19th 2014) will not be raised believing she is a worthless sinner. She will be the first that I know of in my family to be raised this way and I am honored to be the one to do it.
Canon BrownThat's awsome brother. My three are being raised as Christians and I'm struggling to just let it be.
If man is nothing more than a composition of few materialist things like atoms or sub atomic particles ... I would say a diamond is more precious than a human regardless of what one believes ( after all ... man, his actions and thoughts are nothing more than a certain pattern of atomic vibrations that was due to an external cause ). A diamond is at-least more pure in composition and doesn't cease to function with time like man.
Keep a diamond or grow a plant and it might not love you but nor will it harm itself .. Bring up a child and you will gradually realize that in-spite of all your love towards that child and showing them the right paths, that child still has a free will to love you or go against your love and choose for themselves a life less than what you would love for them to have ..
Anub Philip You make no sense, is there a point to your comment?
Anub Philip What I hear Canon saying is not some philosophical argument about free will, sin, choice, or anything, but simply that he believes his daughter has incredible, inherent worth.
I know that many people have been told, from some Christians, that we are worthless, "totally depraved", dirty, etc. from birth, and that this sense of guilt and such should motivate us by fear to repent to God, etc., etc. This, to me, is sad and a very limited view of God.
When I was anticipating the birth of my first child (12 years ago), I was absolutely overwhelmed with how precious and valuable he was, before he did anything. My first priority, at that point, was to help him to learn just how loved and valuable he was.
Honestly, that's largely still the case.
Since then, we have talked about faith, sin, Jesus, and many deep topics. However, my passion in parenting is that both my boys understand how much they are loved, both by God and by me.
Anub, I do not think it wise to say things like,
"If man is nothing more than a composition of few materialist things like atoms or sub atomic particles ... I would say a diamond is more precious than a human..."
until you have earned the right to confront someone on their beliefs like this, ESPECIALLY when the topic/context is the worth of his child!
Canon, sorry if I'm a bit "off", here. I don't mean to stick my nose where it doesn't belong...
Ed Warkentin It's so much more than the fact that my daughter wont know what it's like to be a worthless sinner.
She will never fear hell or anything supernatural.
She will be able to think on her own to determine if something is right or wrong.
She will not feel guilt when she finds another man or woman attractive.
She will never learn that a woman is to serve her man.
She will be accountable for her own wrongdoings.
The list could go on but you get the point. The thing about Christianity is you have no idea how wrong it is until you know it's wrong.
As a small child this is what I was taught, and I remember having nightmares of my skin melting off and my house burning down and overall fire destroying every part of me if I didn't worship right. Scary shit right here.
SKYBORNE telling a child this is child abuse
When I was 4 it was just too ridiculous for me to believe, I would be tortured by my thoughts(because I had sworn) that I was instantly cursed to eternal torture, considering I was a competent 4 year old, I declared it preposterous.
@@alexlink4623 Lucky for you then. Generally, children of that age eat up what they are given and believe their parents with little question, only really thinking critically starting around puberty. Let's not make that their fault, it's how the human brain works.
Same i had so many hell nightmares from preschool to my late teens early twenties. Im so glad I'm breaking this pattern with my kids.
We all know they'll take your story and say, "Oh, but that's a sign..!".
I'm sorry SKYBORNE.
this hits me in the heart so bad. My child will never know indoctrination like I had.
Rachel Finerty good on you teach them the preciousness of life as for me I'm ace by birth and ace for life wouldn't have it any other way
ALL childhood education and instruction is indoctrination.
@@intotheunknown21 Um, yes. It's how humans learn. Case in point: "Wild" children.
so you make sure to indoctrinate them into a different conclusion about the origins of life right? ;)
@@walrusmayonaisesandw you actually just allow the child to think for themselves. It’s not that complicated. They can believe or not believe in whatever they want.
As someone who was raised to be a mindless Christian, this was all I was taught. Thankfully none of this sunk in.
This is flat out child abuse, it gives kids false information, and does long lasting damage to their psyche.
Alecto Anarchy you were lucky for years of my youth my mothers family had my brain in a blender. and it feels like such a waste knowing that I was brainwashed for 80% of my youth. but I still have 100 years left of my life so not all is lost. the family name deserves its place on the ash heap so if they don't get what they want it wouldn't bother me one bit. they would only be dying for thier ego. nevermind that they should be proud of what I grew up to be an asexual\ activist \ writer and the king of transgender rights
Thecatnipproject Heh, I'm still figuring out my place in the world, but I know religion no longer has a place with me aside from comparative studies.
Madaly Murray O"Hair was the one who attempted to use child abuse on our own kids by trying to take away children"s rights to enjoy and celebrate Christmas .
She was an old lying hag .
Who else misses these types of videos from this channel?
Moi.
+Ellenor Malik me too
Me
@@conversion721 me two
Me!
Telling kids that they are sinners and that it's possible that they can burn in hell forever is child abuse.
But billions of people ACTUALLY believe this vile horror story and teach it to their children as a GOOD thing ..... Crazy.
tell me about it. why haven't they been placed in the nuthouse yet
Many tell their THREE-year-olds, before they have any idea of what it means, to thank Jesus for saving them, without any context all, so as to prime them for the overall teachings of the Christian concept later throughout childhood. They want to get 'em while they're young, and are completely oblivious to the fact that it's extremely harmful.
The ad I got before this video started was for the Mormon church not quite sure if they know who they are advertising to, but you have to love irony.
Leo Sodan GET YOUR MAGIC UNDERWEAR HERE!
Letting those ads play costs the Mormons money, leaving them less able to indoctrinate others.
Seth, I don't know if you'll ever read this, but these videos, especially ones like this, were instrumental in opening my mind. You had a huge impact on mu life.
"The fog of superstition has lifted, and I have a breathtaking view of a better world."
Me too
It is scary that people actually believe 100% of this.
It is absolutely horrifying that people who make decisions that affect the lives of hundreds of millions of people also believe 100% this.
It shakes me to my core that these people act, vote, and behave to satisfy these ends regardless of consequence or sound opposition.
Now the first thing in any battle is to💣
define your enemy to identify your enemy before you decide how you can overcome
him you've got to identify him you've got to be sure you've identified the
right enemy never pray against people because you're not wrestling against
flesh and blood human beings are not the enemies we are wrestling against beings
without bodies we are wrestling against the devil himself👿
@@dAmOnALiSaOfALliSaS Oh, oh... What now?!
I have a hunch those who rule don’t really believe this, but understand how to use it to control others.
It's because they are threatened with eternal torture from a young age
And just think, there are people who are justices on the United States Supreme Court who said at their confirmation hearings that they would not use their religious beliefs to interpret the laws!
I'm such a good christian that I can spot a saved baby from a non-saved baby, just by the unapologetic look in its eye. DON'T ACT LIKE YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU DID BABY!!!
Throwing his binkie to the floor will send him to hell no doubt
It is fascinating how absurd Christianity sounds when the basic concepts are laid out so matter-of-factly like this without all the bells and whistles that usually accompany religious teaching. I would LOVE to see a video like this from the perspective of Islamic indoctrination--accurately described, i.e., without the usual caricatures, such that it would resonate with actual Muslims.
This is powerful and concise. When I was a Christian, when these questions would come to me, I would just shut them down. I'm a lot happier now that I'm free, and I wish I could get all those years back.
This video continues to deeply move me and I am, so impressed with everything about it. I feel that it accurately reflects the teachings I was exposed to as a child.
clydesight You are disgusting.
@@AteoEticoCaboRojo Okay, let's just ignore what the *VIDEO* told us about the teaching of children that they are worthless and a sinner to a "certain someone."
Child abuse, brain-washing at its finest level.
How did it take me nearly 40 years to figure this out? Once you see it, it’s so obvious. I’m really grateful my son doesn’t have to experience this.
No matter how many times I watch this, it still gives me goosebumps
What disgusts me most, is that many Christians look at this with approval
this is so deep. I've watched it so many times and it pangs me in the heart every time. wowww
+kaitlyn zuniga omg it really is. it makes you think, too. It's just crazy to me that people teach their children this drivel.
kaitlyn zuniga same I eventually managed to shake off the effects of thier brainwashing. but believe me it feels like such a waste knowing that I was brainwashed for 80% of my youth. but I still have 100 years left of my life so not all is lost. besides the family name deserves its place on the ash heap so if they don't get what they want it wouldn't bother me at all. they would only be dying for thier ego. nevermind that they should be proud of what I grew up to be an asexual activist\ writer and the king of transgender rights
I am so glad to be raising my 16-month-old religion free. I am also glad that I broke free of myth and superstition back in the summer of 2011. I cannot believe people believe this.
As a child raised in a Christian household, I find this video.... very well-made and good. Honestly, when I was a kid, the concept of heaven seemed kinda boring: I mean, eternity in paradise where all you get to do is praise God? Isn't that just an eternal church service? Am I allowed to bring my laptop to heaven?
Christian Calso Yes, but they only have dialup.
+Kevin15047 We got a T1 line in hell. You can stream Netflix in 4K all day long. Come on down. ;)
Andrew Curley
I'm there!
+Christian Calso I used to ask my Mom if I could bring toys to heaven, or if the animals would come to. I thought it was cruel they'd all disappear, when they could so eaily be saved. She merely replied: They are tools.
Bryce Richardson
Don't take this the wrong way, but it sounds like your mother is a tool.
That poor sweet baby. Just discovered this channel today. These videos are fantastic.
Holy fuck!, I can't believe I haven't yet subscribed to this wonderful channel. That changes today, thanks for making me cry the freaking snot out with this amazingly powerful video, I can't wait to share it. Magnificent!
If you haven't already watched it, I recommend his other video too, "Something Beautiful". th-cam.com/video/L6IPFyHEv3o/w-d-xo.html
yeah as a child I had the wool over my eyes in sunday school but when I got older I questioned the whole religion thing. now when my kids ask me about it I will not sugar coat it for em.
Absolutely Brilliant video. It moves me on so many levels because it is exactly what I was taught as a child in Parochial School many years ago. But this IS the message of Christianity. Why can't some people see the horror of it?
This is a stupid anti - Christian video , Christians do not talk to babies like this and you know it .
No one talks to a baby like this .
Babies are gifts from God and they are not old enough to know what sin is .
Now, this is one powerful video.i hope people gets the message.
This rocked me when I was A Christian. I was just born a Christian and never thought much about it. As of now my logic can't reconcile with the three major religions that I studied in school.
BlackCoatedMan
Keep researching your way to sanity. :)
BlackCoatedMan Reclaim your right to think for yourself.
Child Abuse, Someone that does this to a child should have their children taken away.
Lea Leandre So educating your child with real science is worse than than brainwashing them with fairy tales ? Sure....
coughcoughreligiouswackoscough
Gassmann Romain LOL your real science is just as bad and full of bs as those religious fairy tales.
Funny how you do not seem to see the same people who brought you those fairy tales are giving you other ones on an everlasting basis.
GrinchDec23 who told you this? Alex Jones?
GrinchDec23 Funny how you're using 'fairy tales' to communicate with me.
If you believe that science is just a bunch of fairy tales, then so be it. As for myself, I'll keep studying and try to understand the universe.
In a way, I wish I was ignorant. Even as a little kid, I never truly believed in God. I just couldn't be fed bull crap. But this is harsh reality, I guess. There is no happiness after death, or torture or any of that. It's just death. But I wish I could believe in this God... and feel like I could be saved and taken to some magic world in the sky after I die. But no. there is no salvation. And you know what? Maybe I'm fine with it. It just gives me more incentive to live life to it's fullest. Because, Dammit, I'll say this only once, and for once, I won't regret it! YOLO! ... Nevermind, I regret that phrase completely.
Devin Moores dont fear, when push comes to shove, you are more likely to be accepted by a god you dont believe, then to worship the devils work. god loves atheists, they are the closest we can come to be in his image anyways.
so just do as me, be a happy agnostic atheist and live life, and surely if there is a god, you still win in the end. :)
Yeah, you're most likely right. If he is the benevolent lord they say, he'll be able to forgive this... given his existence that is.
Devin Moores just think in these terms, most of the believers look at life as a test, and you are either rewarded with heaven for it, or punished to hell for it.
however the test they follow is "belong to this religion and accept this god, then reject all other gods and dont be tempted" also submit your "free will" so that you can kneel before a god and do as he says, if you do not do this, you will go to hell and so on.
thats a stupid test, they also use satan as a trickster that wants you to fail this test. okey? xD
so, they say that humans are created in the image of god. would he submit to someone else? would he follow someone elses rules?
i think to be as close to god (they also say that in holybooks) you dont need to accept him, know him, talk to him, or even understand and follow "his rules".
to be close to god, is to be close to the image of him. lets say that he is as awasome as they describe him in the books. well, then he is intelligent, good, creative, an artists and so on. so be intelligent, good, creative, compasionate and help and comunicate work together with other images of "god". then you are closer to his image etc.
i mean, if you kneel to a god, then your nothing like in his image, i dont believe in god. but the god they describe, i cannot think that he would ever kneel to anybody. thats out of his character :P
so, if we just look at life as a test, then the test would more likely be to just be as good of an image of him as we could.
looking at satan/devil as a trickster, there would be a far more better trick for him to create alot of religions, and try to make people believe in god like he depicts it, so in that case, belonging to a religious belief you are actually fooled by the trickster satan, because submitting yourself would mean to be totally out of character of the image of god.
this would also make this rest universal, say 1000years ago, religion was not global, but the disbelief of god was. and a god would not create people to be doomed to hell without a chance would he?
what im saying is, if there is a god, and if there is a test, and if there is a reward at the end. then its more likely that the test is to not believe in a religion, but instead just be a good, intelligent, critical, creative and kind human.
that religion is actually the devils tool to poison that image into a slave like, shackled and submitted person (as far from what i would believe the image of god would be).
therefor atheists in their disbelief, if they are good and kind should have a ticket to heaven. since they are critical and intelligent enough to not fall for the trickster satan and his many creations of religion :)
I feel you, man...I also wish I was ignorant, ignorance really IS bliss.
I am the same, I have never believed in God. Nobody has ever convinced me and the more people (including my parents) tried to convince me, the more I didn't believe it. You shouldn't question The Bible they would say. Why, not? The loop began. You just shouldn't. In a weird way, I think it would be easier for me to believe in a god, than to understand why 80% of America believes in a god. But than I think about how they have been indoctrinated and realize why they believe. But I did and I still do. It bothers me that so many are in denial of reality, not to mention how it is being shoved down my throat. Who would want to worship someone or something for eternity anyways? That sounds like hell, not heaven!
Ignorance is bliss.That is why children are always happy. That is why people say "children's innocence" is at stake when you tell them the truth. Weird thing is we (humans in general) don't want that innocence to go away and we keep them from that truth. So, basically we as a society would rather have us all delusional dancing in the street, singing away and as long as we are happy....wow, I may be on to something here...Nope! I prefer the truth...Ignorance is bliss and the truth hurts...Welcome to humanity!
Did I tell my child that there is a Santa? Damn right I did! When he said "My friend said that your parents give you the gifts, not Santa." I responded "Would it matter if that were true?" He said No. Years later, he asked again and I told him that Santa was real and that everybody is Santa, even him. He liked that. I didn't want to remove the childhood experience due to my atheism, who didn't like getting gifts as a kid.
He asked to go to church with a friend. We don't go to church. I, of course, allowed him to go. He said he wasn't sure if he should go because of what I have told him (my lack of belief) and because I have always told him investigate and make your own decision instead of being influenced by what others say. My response was that isn't that what you are doing by not wanting to go. I told him he was being influenced by me to not go. The light turned on and he said okay I am going. He loved it, he played with the other kids and had fun. He didn't even mention God. Just things I have done, it's tough making the right calls but I believe those were a few that I made that worked. Fuck, I wrote a book. Title To whom it may concern, or Who Fucking Cares. You went too far Frank!
Good luck,
Cheers!
Well choreographed and very poignant. It’s heartbreaking knowing children are born everyday into a unforgiving world to start with. Then they are given the weight of convoluted religious emotional inventory.
Congratulations! This should be shown to all children in schools (and all adults as well!)
the problem is that a lot of people (Christians) will watch this video and think its so amazing cause its true.
spaveevo
I agree: it's from the Thinking Atheist website, but the problem is that most religious people do not have the intellectual capacity to understand the message of this video. If you "believe" you will "believe".
But i am so happy that the Thinking Atheist is making these quality video's...even if they will make only a few people think and reflect who are religious...about the madness of their religion...
spaveevo
the sad part is, I actually thought a real christian made this video first time I watched it in another one of his videos
xerox1959" most religious people do not have the intellectual capacity to understand the message of this video" Why do you suppose religious people managed to be in the majority while having such low intellectual capacity? According to the law of natural selection they should not have been able to adapt well enough with the changes in the environment to survive right?
+xerox1959 "some people do not have the intellectual capacity to understand the message" but anyway you look at it it's pretty abusive to a child.
WOW, just wow. Says it all in a nutshell. Excellently done, the baby is a very compelling image. Thumbs up.
I was searching for "welcome to this world" by Primus and stumbled across this. OHMYgod- I love this sososo much!
My girlfriend is Catholic and is currently pregnant with our first child... I see it as one of my great missions not to have the child grow up feeling this kind of guilt and theological angst.
Better Catholic than Fndamentalist!
@@skulldini1766 This is true, but only up to a point. I've found that, in the same way that Mormons force themselves to be friendly, Catholics force themselves to act accepting. However, the inability of a Catholic--or at least, a specific type of Catholic--to embrace questioning is staggering. The fundamentalists I've talked to have more usually been urbane and engaged in the face of my questions; although their answers are incredibly fatuous, I find that the culture is better able to not take offense than Mama's form of belief. It's a strange paradox.
One of the most profound videos on TH-cam, thank you
Oh my gosh, her voice is beautiful
ArtemusPrime agree!!
They might actually use this.
Nope. I really don't get how anyone can accept this stuff as true.
+Casson Scowcroft Very simple. Turn off reason hence religion and belief in any fucking bullshit thrown. Religitards are the most pathetic of all groups.
Anyone who doesn't think a baby isn't sinful has never seen how toddlers naturally act selfishly and hostile to anyone who takes a toy they want to play with.
@@TheImpactEditor Baby = Toddler. Nice way to put a comparison.
Toddlers are selfish but that they have not yet known what it means to share. That doesn't mean they are evil (sinner)
@@melbournemeliodas215 :
Selfishness is pretty much THE definition of evil.
@@TheImpactEditor If we see it in an objective way, toddlers *NEED* a lot of attention. That is why I see wrong in calling the babies "selfish" or "sinners"
They are not. Babies are indeed, needs a lot of attention and care. They may act selfishly but then again you must understand the very nature of what babies and/or toddlers are.
They can't survive, they need someone to teach them, their brains aren't *as developed as what a teenager possesses.*
But if you actually train your toddler to be nice and adapts to "being nice" in the future than that is the proof that they were mindless in their actions when they were toddlers. Or they couldn't understand the actions they were doing. You can't force a baby or toddler to understand complex stuff when they were just born 8 months ago or 2 years ago (unless with special parenting care or genius aspect)
Their brains are not capable of that.
I was subjected to indoctrination as a child.
It is hard for me to watch this. I remember, though I'm 60 years old, I remember.
I won't forget. I won't forgive.
You stole my life from me. It took decades to escape your lies. But I did.
Too late. I gave up everything for you but you betrayed me.
No, I don't forgive; I don't forget...
It genuinely enrages me that you had so much of your limited time on this planet wasted on things that aren't even true. I am genuinely so sorry and glad you'll never forgive them for taking your life, they don't deserve it.
Thank you for your comment. I become more of an anti-theist every day. I hate watching people waste literally their entire existence preparing for an afterlife that doesn't exist. We have so few hours we even get to spend conscious in this reality and religion is stealing all of them.
/End rant
(Sorry if my comment is inappropriate.)
As long as we have the freedom to dissent, the freedom to question, the freedom to think for ourselves, religions days are numbered.
Once again Seth, a brilliant video. It brought goosebumps all over me and I never even had to deal with this type of phone call. My father did however tell me (He's not even Christian, just some woo-woo form of deism) that I believe NOTHING at all, atheists believe in NOTHING. I've explained it to him so many times...he says that I am proof of Gods existence. I suppose someday I'll understand when I get my own children but right now I can't even speak about atheism with my secular non-religious family. How bizarre.
First time I ever saw this, I was just searching for the song by Primus. I’m endlessly glad to have seen it though for the message.
I remember going to church and having to pray forgiveness for killing Jesus. That was my first "what the fuck" moment in church.
Somehow I killed Jesus. Me. Some 8 year old kid.
I felt horrible. I felt like I was being accused of an actual murder.
I knew I would never do something like that. But I couldn't say anything. I had to sit in this thought for an hour while the preacher told us about the sins we're responsible for but didn't actually commit.
"But church is good!"
Thanks. A lot. The narrators voice almost had me in tears, can you do more. I will show this to all my friends it was so touching.
I would never say these things to my future kids. That's horrible. But I will encourage them to think for themselves, to research and make their own judgements and what they want to do in life. Never will I force them to be something I want them to be.
The baby is all like, "The fuck is she saying?"
Hearing this brought tears to me i lost my kids before and it sucks but again i love u all and i am sorry for my ways in life and for other's as well
I like this Chinese three character classic that says that people are born good. They're natures are similar, but they're habits make them different from each other. It helps me to trust people, and not think they're naturally evil and are trying to rid them of their evil ways.
The scary thing of course is that children have no choice but to believe what their parents tell them... No matter how bizarre it sounds to an outsider (or to an apostate like me).
And the Christian religious instruction summarized here - which I received for about 12 years - is not even the worst one on the planet. I escaped without threat of death. If this baby were born to Muslim parents he might even be told that besides going to hell AND being executed for giving up the faith, his duty was to KILL anyone else who did so.
treborp1957 Isn't it funny that it *is* bizarre to us, even though we used to believe this stuff ourselves?
This was my first Thinking Atheist video, and all I can say is: Instant Sub :D
As a parent who let his son follow his own spiritual path I felt the effect of this deeply.
I am atheist but feel everyone must make their own choice so supported my sons decision to be Christian from start to finish. He stopped believing because of the contradictions he saw without me pointing them out.
The most painful times were seeing him in tears because he had done things wrong and was scared this would land him in hell. My opinion anyone who sees this and pushes it further must be warped.
Your channel is what made me not feel alone as a non-believer when I was in high school well over a decade ago. I searched for online atheist communities after watching a couple of your videos. I grew up in the south (bible belt) and genuinely thought I was the only non-believer. This is one of the first videos I watched that really solidified that the religion I grew up with was oppressive and had no ruling in my life anymore. Thank you for being outspoken.
Seriously, chills.
Born in a country where you are free to choose what religion you want to be and everybody must respect each other's religion, *EXCEPT FOR BEING AN ATHEIST*
Very strong message, I will show it to my Son when he grow up.
Thank you Seth for allowing people to see what is going on here. As a former believer I applaud you for making this and it stands to show that people should not be scared to question what we a told to believe. Think, discover, explore and participate. This is a perfect example of how you can twist any subject to suit any need whith enough effort. This is the same method that has been used by churches for years to brainwash control and sad to say scare their followers. It is the human condition.
Took me many years to break free from all of the brainwashing done to me from my childhood. I don't blame my parents for it though..they were brainwashed too. It a vicious cycle.
Isn't it terrifying having religious parents? I was very lucky to be born into a long line of non-theists: scientists, engineers and musicians. I'm one of a very fortunate minority. We need to get the rationalist message across and the sooner the better for all of mankind.
thanks for this video, really good quality and content.
"That which can be presented without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence." - that's called Hitchens' razor
The last time I heard Ideas like these, it was in George Orwells Animal Farm.
Why would an Omnipotent, all seeing god want praise from his creations.
I can't help but be brought to tears watching this. It is a reminder of how much I have failed Christ if in fact he did live. I am an atheist that was once a Christian, and my decision has brought with it a sense of guilt. Has this happened to anyone else?
Freedom comes at a price. While the idea of God traps a person into guilt and fear because he'll sent us to hell if we disobey him, but once you realize "He" was only an idea, then you'll be free.
Yes. Me too. We are responding to our programming, just as POW respond to brainwashing techniques. Religion uses our natural desire to be just people against us, guilting us into believing we are good for nothing... and that without believing without proof, we are somehow behaving unjustly. But we know better.
Deprogramming takes time and support of those who have been down that road.
But you can get though it!
The human mind is stronger than mythology.
I have to say that I felt the opposite effect. I kind of felt like the weight of the world was lifted from my shoulders. No more trying to please some invisible god with impossible standards. As the years have gone on I have felt more and more free from the yoke of religion and now am almost angry that I spent so much of my life being told all of this nonsense. I think that once you eventually realize the enormous impossibility that any of this was true you will feel the same. You have not failed anyone Brian. In my view it is nothing but impossible that any part of Christianity was ever true or even intended to have been believed as truth. I will tell you that I spent nearly 2 years leaving the church as I was very reluctant to believe that it could be true that I wasted so much of my life on such nonsense. In the end, I was so 100% positive that christianity was false that there was no guilt at all. I don't know how your journey has progressed that you became an atheist but if you need any help please let me know. I would be happy to share some things with you to help you better understand the process.
Brian, it takes time to let go of the negative emotions that religion would have you embrace. Hang in there and look for other rational, thinking, non-believers in your area for support.
I felt scared and guilty until I discovered Christopher Hitchens...then I felt empowered
I've shared this at least once a year since its release.
This video deeply moved me to look at my belief in God and say.....thank you for saving me! keep watching! ☺
This video almost made me cry. I'm 18 and stuck at home until I finish college and pay off my loans. I'm transgendered (MTF) and my bible reading, fox news watching parents punish me for it. They're always yelling at me and calling it a phase even though I've been this way for over 2 years. My counselor has told them repeatedly that they need to stop. Conservative parents reading this, please think of your kids. Love them before ancient fairy tales. You wouldn't sacrifice them for Zeus, why god?
I hope your 20s have been better so far. ❤️
How do you do now 9y later ? I am in a similar situation...
I'm pretty sure that baby never did that stuff. I'm also pretty sure a truly just and reasonable deity would not torture someone forever and ever.
+roder51 lol what? You don't even know me! I think you can't read, because my comment never defended a book. For you to use the word "religitard" on me is ridiculous. You're just trolling, aren't you?
Just watched this video with my youngest son. He didn't grow up with religion of any type. He is 18 now! :)
the hardest thing is to guide the loved ones out of it.
especially when you make them question god, and they get all paranoid to the point of thinking that a simple flat tire, is divine punishment.
This makes me so sad... but at least my little girl won't be raised having to believe this. Maybe things will be different when she is my age... one can hope.
Subbed.
They have all sorts of interesting podcasts and short videos like this.
I was really impressed with the production.
They put a lot of thought and effort into alot of what they do. :)
Beautifully presented.
This is so brilliant, so amazing. I am in awe. Can't believe I was one of these people, now I am woken up.
The mindfuck that is Christian theology
This video makes me sad. Just wrong how a person could actually look at a baby being born corrupt from what supposed people did a long ass time ago. If the teachings of this religion isn't about holding a grudge, I don't know what is.
Superb. Great narration. Fabulous choice of the cute baby.
That really cuts deep, if one thinks deeply about the religious doctrine.
Good job.
Bruce
They really picked such a sweet, innocent, adorable baby - looking into those eyes, how could you say those things?
She sounds like Azura, from Morrowind.
nice! is there a muslim version of this :D
Deep and moving truth. Top notch video.
I've welcomed so many young children into this world, and I cry when I think of the number of people in their lives who will attempt to deceive them as they themselves were once deceived, and how long it will likely take them to realize the truth, and how unlikely it is that they will ever see a better alternative than passing on the same deception as if it is the only way to prevent people from becoming evil. It's not the only way. In fact, it's not even a good way and it often fails. :(
Nothing short of child abuse.
Yup.. pretty much nails it
I feel like your humbleness in regards to the unknown and known of reality is a reflection of a love for God. Not the God depicted as an old bearded man who resides in the sky, but the God that escapes our imagination to which humanity continually strives to know while exploring deeply inside and outside of ourselves.
That was very nice of you.
Your very kind.
I believe what the Bible says even if it has been mistranslated and corrupted over the years. It was inspired by God because it says that it was. Like if something is on the Internet, it must be true. My faith is the basis for my belief. I have faith that what I believe is true. The earth is flat.
Janne B.Stromberg er i think he was joking bud calm down
yeah, I got that feeling therefore I continued on the joke but I think it went over your head :P
Ha sorry bud my bad
Janne B.Stromberg
Mrgruffy44 is a man of God. He would never wear a garment made from shrimps and homosexuals.
Janne B.Stromberg
If a man lay with another man they should be stoned. It's better, that's all I'm saying.
as an atheist i can say i understand where they are going with this message, but honestly i see no difference between this and the hell scare tactics that evangelicals use on their children anyways, i could easily just see some christian forcing their kid to watch this as a way to scare them into believing what they want them to. so while us atheists/agnostics get the message i don't think the point is made clear enough to Christians how horrible and detrimental to a child their message really is.
If any Christian did that it only reinforces the point of the video.
The daily help varies from holding a door for someone, giving lifts to unsuccessfully trying to revive someone after an accident. When my son attended church many struggled with the fact we chipped in more than most others there without faith in their deity or seeking eternal reward.
We cannot get rid of sin on our own, was true for me. But I work to make myself a decent person without the needing religion to promote it. When I do, I seek forgiveness from those I have wronged not a third party.
I am an ex-Muslim but this video is extremely relatable.
Is there anyway to turn this into a videogame. This is an amazing exposition and it should not be wasted. Just a bit of adjustment of the plot, maybe Satan trying to overthrow god at the time of rapture or some shit. You play as Satan of course, or maybe the anti-Christ and you don't know it, you figure it out and your destiny to rebel against god as your father did. Having been raised as a Christian yourself you try to deny it at first, but after seeing the evil acts of god for yourself later you turn against god and lead the battle to destroy him and his kingdom. Not in the act of accepting the prophecies to be true, but to correct what you feel to be wrong.
Too much too soon, FIRSTLY. can someone do it?
Games about religion don't really have popular outcomes... Just like the movies.
Adrenalin844 its less about the religion and more about the story
Seth Kunert
Yeah, Christianity like many religions has some really epic and awesome myths. Look at shipping and other intra-fandom wars, then back at the real-life results of religions and it's certainly...interesting, in that sorrowful kind of way, how humans have so much potential to take something fictional and become so attached that they take it far too seriously.
In slightly cheerier news, it's those very same core human responses that makes TV Tropes articles on religion, the Bible, and history more amusing to read. Fannon decrees, fandom wars and base breakers, etc.
The bible could make a great first person shooter.
In the first level or 'Old Testament' level you:
Start out being a character called 'god' and you get to blast all guns blazing into nothingness with no particular target and once you fire off say 100 rounds then BOOM the universe appears.
After you get the universe you have a selection of targets to shoot. You have to navigate your way though the universe shooting all the planets, stars, and galaxies (there are quite a few billion of them to choose from) you just created but you don't earn any points until you hit a tiny insignificant looking 'pale blue dot' called 'Earth'.
This opens up the next sub-level in the game where you shoot using your powered up lightening gun to zap the earth in one particular location and create a garden (points are gained for additional animals and plants you create - don't worry you get the pleasure to kill almost all of them later in a horrible way).
You then have to use your 'manna' power up powers to make a creature you call 'man' out of dirt or mud and another creature you call 'woman' out of the rib of the first.
You then need to blast a tree with evil (knowledge) and you then get to use your persecution powers on your creations because they touched it after you told them not to no matter how beautiful the tree is. These persecution powers make the 'man' fire tadpole shaped bullets into the stomach of the 'woman' to activate the re-spawn feature of the game.
Now that you have completed the first sub-level you are transported forward in a time portal and you emerge as a character named 'Moses'. Your old 'god' character hasn't gone far but he now transfers his will though 'Moses' who hears ever word 'god' says (this sub-level is where the first person shooter comes into it's own). Moses is armed with the 'Sword of Righteousness' and unlimited ammo.
You now proceed to various cities following though mazes of buildings with climbing challenges and pits to cross etc... where there are innocent people going about their own business. Your task as Moses is to kill as many of these people as you can find. Killing an innocent man is worth 4 times the bonus points for killing a woman but you can get special bonus for killing children.
During this level you are also looking for virgin women who you may take as your bounty and extra bonus 'booty' point.
In some cities you get to change characters such as 'Lot', 'David' (armed with 'Slingshot of Giant Slaying'), or 'Noah' who gets to be a bit of a ship builder and animal herder ('god' intervenes here and uses water cannons to drown every living creature apart from those on the boat), as well as a bunch of other characters that get to use swords and stones against various innocent groups of people.
In the second level called 'New Testament' level you take on the role of a character called 'Jesus'.
The backstory to this level is partly in the first level but is enhanced with lineage of your character. Jesus was conceived by god (who underwent a total personality change for this level) via an angel in the womb of a woman called 'Mary' who swears she'd never had sex before and who was destined to marry another man 'Joseph' who she was seeing at the time and your character Jesus will eventually be a king of kings. Although Jesus's lineage however states that to be a King he needed to be the son of king. Thus he was product of approximately 35 'Son of David' who was the son of this person or son of that person about 35 times over. God doesn't actually feature in this lineage and given that in ancient times it was believed that the males 'carry the king genes' and Joseph wasn't related in that lineage to David. Look, don't think to hard about this and just believe it. MAGIC!!! You are a king and son of god and are god's physical representation of himself in this level - MAGIC!!!
You start the level being introduced as a child to 3 wise potential paedophiles who bring gifts. After this sub-level you are transported forward in time about 30 years (you can earn bonus points if you find the secret intervening years door where you get to make Ikea furniture and different items earn different points)
You now proceed as Jesus where you gain points by slapping the sick, lame, and poor with you 'hand of compassion' to heal them.
You can earn points for dividing up a few fishes and loaves of bread to feed as many people as possible with a point per person. If you reach 5000 then you get special bonus points for being not only the king of kings but also the 'king of thinnest sliced sushi' or the 'king of catching the biggest whale in sand hills' so the food goes around (whichever you feel is more plausible - MAGIC!!!).
You also go around with your other hand - the 'hand of condemnation' where you get to slap sinners and those who don't believe you; who are burned and tortured forever in front of your followers.
Next you have personal relationship with 12 men who follow you everywhere and do everything you ask of them - and I mean 'anything' ;). At this stage you also reject the advances of women and don't allow them to be your direct followers as you prefer men to follow you and be closest to you.
The next sub-level sees you a garden and you are attacked by soldiers. You use your 'turned cheek' powers but to no avail and you are nailed to billboard frame. Don't worry though as you have a re-spawn power that kicks in 3 days later and you disappear forever.
To round out this first person shooter level your followers tell others about their experiences, who tell others, who tell others, who a number of generations later write some of these stories down and work out which bits of the stories that they liked and didn't like and publish a book in a language that few people could read and is easily mistranslated later. It is the followers of this book who are called 'Christians' who you get to play in the final stages of the game.
In this final stage you as a Christian are waiting for Jesus to return and while you are waiting you must spread the word of this book to make others believe in it and if they don't believe in it then they are to be killed or tortured. Sub-levels include the 'Crusades' (popular with swords and lots of blood against a new breed of infidels), the 'Dark ages' (also popular with inventive ways of killing and hurting powerless people with special bonus points for dismemberment of unbelievers while they are alive), the 'Enlightenment' when Christians feel threatened by the demons of 'Reason' and 'Science' and they fight back with 'pseudo science' and 'Christian science' (special bonus points still awarded for getting into politics, killing people in the lands of the infidels with machine guns, RPGs, missiles, etc..., and torturing the scientists with 'Ken Ham' reasoning).
The game ends when you along with millions of other Christians just waiting and waiting and waiting for Jesus to come back to 'Rapture' you and to annihilate everyone else.... Actually this is a bit of a tragic ending to a game. Tragic as you don't realise that you have wasted your life playing a game.
Do you think this game would sell? Probably, since the book it is based on is on best sellers lists (under fiction I hope) and read and believed my millions of people around the world - unfortunately.
If anyone doesn't understand the story and judges it because of its exposition is close-minded.
When I was a little I was told that the fire in hell was hellfire and that it would burn my soul and hurt more than anything I could imagine
the scary thing is 90 percent of Americans will watch this and say
what a beautiful video.
spaveevo I hope those poor people will stop fearing
What I find truly appalling is the way Christians condemn non believers. They gloat, smirk and get misty eyed and can hardly wait to see us burn in hell.
If hell really exist and suppose I landed in heaven, I won't ever feel good or be happy knowing that many people I cared for and once loved are burning in pain while I am living in absolute bliss. For that reason alone, heaven won't ever be a place of happiness for me and many others.
No sin or crime deserves infinite punishment for finite crime.
That's not love in any stretch of imagination.
According to most Christians you'll be ok with knowing that you're friends and family are roasting. If that's so, then it won't be you. It'll be some version of you that's had its memory wiped. That's why the afterlife according to the Bible is false
For the record, I'm atheist (super true!), but even if christians were right about heaven (they are not), who wants to be a man's slave forever....
About torture in (fake) hell, its pointless. Why the hell would you be punished forever, the point of mistakes is you learn from them, so you don't make them again. *facepalm* christianity is stupid T_T
My parents didn't teach me about Hell growing up. I eventually learned about that on my own.
When you give a shiny coin to a curious toddler, don't act surprised when they look at the other side
My new Mission ... To show this video to my local tea party !!!
This whole thing is a backwards misrepresentation, and not subtly so.
1. No, they are not asking forgiveness for what others did, but for what they do to others. Sin is what we do, and are responsible for in our actions. Adam and Eve's sin was the first, and theirs alone. Nothing more, nothing less.
2. Who ever said we had to ask forgiveness for what we did to Jesus? What happened to Jesus was deliverance for us, sacrifice for him. It is the foundation of Christianity, without which there would be no Christianity. He took it upon himself to do this for us, so that we would have a way to peace and life in the here and now and afterwards. Through suffering of his life and earthly end, Jesus became a part of our pain and did not remain distant from it. And yet, it led to the resurrection which opened a window of hope for us all.
3 Tithes are based on God's commandment to the Israelites in Exodus, where a collection was taken up and needed to prepare for and maintain the coming kingdom in the promised land, and was required of the Israelites. In a very real sense, it was their taxation system. In modern times, it is a reflection of the commandment to support the poor and the church. In the early church, it was done specifically to help the poor. Today, the onus is on the church to be responsible with these offerings, which it is debatable if it's doing a very good job of this. However, to characterize tithing as something God specifically laid out for today's church, neglect of which being a punishable offense, is debatable despite all appearances.
4. The great commission is not about convincing others to believe and live as you do. It's about sharing what Christ did and to offer that hope. The message of Jesus is quite simple, "love your God with all your heart, and your neighbor as yourself". I realize the creators of this video do not share that expression. I also realize the church does a poor job with this. I can only offer this quote in defense "Religion is the expression of spirituality". The church is man's best attempt at following Christ's example, but is still based in man.
5. Praising God without end is some people's assumptions. Some believers I've talked to find this agreeable, others think it would make for a very boring afterlife. Those who find it agreeable tend to strike me as those who have a fairly unhealthy low self esteem issue of varying sorts, usually with a helping of legalism. It seems like they feel heaven would be a place for them to pay penance for their shortcomings as payment to God. Truth is, we know little about heaven except for some references to it as a dwelling prepared for us where we will live with God forever, and what we find in Revelations: "Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away ... I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God ... And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away." It sounds to me like a place of rest after a long journey, where we are finally united with God. The real question we should ask here is why we had this first earth when the second was so much better? I can't answer that except to say there may be some experiences in this life that would be impossible in the next, even if it is heaven. If there is a god, there would have to be value in this experience worth the troubles, finally understood when all is revealed.
6. Timothy Keller has an excellent video on TH-cam on hell. I recommend that as my response to this, except to say I find I don't think about hell much. That which would make hell "hell" to me is overcome by Jesus, even if I still struggle with some things now. I'm sure that sounds like nonsense, but it would be a bit more clear if you watch Keller's video. In the end, we can Biblically assess that the lake of fire was intended for Satan, and that hell is a place of gnashing of teeth and separation from God. Not sure the two are connected. That said, the argument of an odd dichotomy between a loving god and hell is not lost on me. I would point out on sin though, that even Paul in Romans 7 tells of his struggles with sin "For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do-this I keep on doing." This is a church father speaking on it. And this is not a "before he was saved" expression as some would say. Not two verses later he says "So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me." Find in the present tense. He didn't just perform accidental sins, he struggled with them. Yet, he had the hope "Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!" You don't earn this gift folks, and perhaps the common conception on hell isn't correct. Jesus was not another goat sacrificed on a shrine. He came to finish it. I reserve any judgement on condemning anyone to hell, even those who made this video who clearly don't claim to believe, on this pretense.
I'm sure none of this changes anyone's mind here. But, I hope if you look to create arguments against a belief system you find ludicrous, you will take the time to understand that system objectively. I feel this video misrepresented what we believe, though it may not be so much so when it comes to the church itself.
Really, really cute baby btw!
I think most people subbed here have a pretty thorough understanding of what the bible says. Unfortunately, people who spend their lives analyzing reality see there is just no solid proof for any divine intervention in human history, and the books of religion are severely flawed and man-made. You may have wasted a large portion of your day..
Aw, Moon, he didn't do it for nothing. I shall reply with a point-by-point rebuttal!
1) In a way you are right, but you are also wrong as follows: Were the Bible true, we have a "sinful nature" and our mortality is the fault of Adam and Eve. In other words, we are punished for the "original sin". Because of this "original sin", we will "sin" and therefore are required to ask forgiveness not for (as stated in the video) the sins of others, but rather because of said sins. If the writer had only said "because of" that statement would have been wholly correct. But in a way what the writer said is correct, because the doctrine of original sin as shown in this video is still taught by many Catholics.
2) Sadly, it is common (though I hear it is getting better) in many Catholic school systems for nuns to teach this terrible idea to children. I imagine this is because it is an excellent way to induce guilt, which helps control the population. If you are a Protestant, it is highly unlikely you've even heard about this until now. I know I didn't until I married a woman who was raised Catholic. This is extra-scriptural, certainly but this part of the video is correct for those raised as my wife was (no small part of the population believes this. Perhaps you could send mission trips to Catholic-dominated areas instead of other places. After all, most Protestants believe that if you never have heard about God, you won't have to stay in hell, because Jesus will come down and bust you out, like a boss. Following that logic, it is better to correct any heinously incorrect understandings first, so that the message is much more unified.)
3) You are wrong. There is no mischaracterization here. The bible absolutely states that the firstfruits of all one produces should be given to honor God in Proverbs 3:9. It is clearly not all about giving to the poor, because if you read the story of the impoverished giver (Mark 12:41-44), Jesus praised her giving all that she had. Using such an extreme example is what causes the poor to donate to their church, when they can't actually afford it. I've been involved with church pantries giving food to people who tithed. As a PK, I was able to find out that some of those poor souls were pretty much getting back what they paid in. These people would be better off psychologically if they didn't have to put themselves in a position of needing help (no one likes that sort of insecurity and few people actually like asking for handouts). And in very few of the chapters speaking on tithing do they actually mention the poor. That is a good assumption, but we can't know it. All of the mentions I recall regarding the tithe being for the poor are from the NT. The OT, never says what the goods tithed are for other that God saying he wants it (ex: Malachi 3:8-12). And there is this specific verse that countermands the idea that it is for the poor or for governance alone in the OT. Numbers 18:25-31. Check it out. It is "dedicated" to God. Bah. I much prefer the NT tithing for the poor, but despise that the poor are encouraged to give as well.
4) Majorly wrong here. Let me post the Great Commission for you (NIV). "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you." Making disciples IS making them believe as you do. Teaching them to obey his commands is definitely more pushy than simply sharing the message.
5) Most people get a picture of unceasing worship in heaven from Revelation 4:8-11. In Revelation 5:12-13, 100 million angels sing praises and worship to Jesus, immediately followed by everything alive in heaven and on earth praising god aloud. This is irrelevant, but I find the number chosen by the writer to be amusing, as I'm guessing it was bigger than he could conceptualize. I mean, how could one even guesstimate 100 million when they see it? Anyway, after that digression I will laugh with you. Hahah, that fancy fact-filled easily understood book of revelation tells us what heaven will be like. We know this. Also, the book is not called Revelations. Now, considering that this god wants our worship here and now, why would this god want us to stop worshiping him when we get to heaven? All this video said is that you will be given the privelege of praising god without end. And that would be true, though perhaps not be unceasingly.
6) All I have to say to that crap is found in Revelation, that oh-so-fact-filled and not-at-all-induced-by-some-physical-agent book. In the twentieth chapter, verses thirteen through fifteen, if you wish to read along: "The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire." First of all, LOL at the paganism so obviously introduced. Second of all, did you say that we can Bibically assess that the lake of fire was intended for Satan and that hell is a place of gnashing of teeth and separation from G - OH WAIT, I just read the three verses that just undid all that carefully drawn out work of garbage on the video you did a poor job of pointing us to. (I had to listen to several with names that indicated they may be the one you mean)
So, in all, your assessment of the video's accuracy is poor. I find you to be correct on point 2 (except for a subset of Christians) and partially correct on point 1 (unless you are in that previously mentioned subset). You overreacted to what was said to make your 5th point, you haven't studied the Bible well enough to understand that point 3 is not correct. You misunderstood the prime directive of the religion in point 4. Finally, for point 6, you showed us that instead of reading the Bible and trying to make sense of it yourself, you listen to apologists who don't use the most salient points in the Bible to uphold their arguments.
lovely baby its a shame your god is most likely going to allow it to be tortured forever x
Even so, the bible paints God as weak, limited, insecure and unintelligent, thus encouraging the same in his followers.
I wont read 72 lines of your babble, however I will say that in your first point you made, you already contradict the bible. We are born with sin according to your wonderful book of hate. That's where baptism comes from is it not? If "sin is what we do, and are responsible for in our actions,) then how is a new born child qualify as a sinner? Derp derp derp.
Just shows you how sick religion is.
I think no sicker than the nature of our brain, we're simply sponges with a fixed biological set of beliefs exchange mechanics. I am robot. Everything comes to exist from our human nature, from nature, from the cosmos, from the infinite in and endless organic flow. Or maybe not.
Yes. I don't think that's sick though, I think that's amazing. I think that's something to marvel at.
Damn! This brought back memories
That sums it up pretty well.
This video is brilliant. Favorited. Bingo, Seth.