I feel like K'Ehleyr and Jadzia would have gotten along really well, much to Worf's chagrin. I can just picture the two of them huddled over drinks at a table at Quark's, giggling. We just catch a snippet of their conversation, "-and he just melts like a kitten!" "I know, right?!" Then we pan over to Worf seething intently at the bar while Quark silently slides him another prune juice.
Or: Worf enters his quarter and see K'Ehleyr and Jadzia on the couch looking at him seductively. "We were waiting for you to have some fun, join us!" Worf, still in the coridor closes the door back. "Told you!", says Jadzia and they both giggle.
The potential for sexual tension between K'Ehleyr and Jadzia would've been epic! Considering how homophobic the higher-ups were it would never have been canon, but still would've been worth it, if only to see Word have an aneurysm.
@@MuadMouse But Jadzia had already had her lesbian episode before that when she got together with Lenara Kahn so where were those "homophobic the higher-ups" when the episode Rejoined was broadcast? because the symbiont had been in both male and female hosts, , "Gender wasn't the issue" The chances are that Jadzia would be up for a threesome but Worf is a lot more conservative because he didn't even want casual sex with K'Ehleyr and insisted that they get married
"You may notice that he looks very different in that episode than he does in Rightful Heir. That's because this is a TV show." Best summary dismissal of that argument I've heard. You have great honor.
@@kennethmelnychuk9737yes, they're both TV shows and appearances can change. Kor, Kang, and Koloth also change their appearances between TOS and DS9. That said, it could also be easily explained by the fact that in TOS that's just how people thought Kahless looked, but they were wrong because it was thousands of years ago and no one alive knows how he really looked.
What I always liked about Worf is that the *idea* of being Klingon was so important to him, that he has this default idea of what Klingons are that doesn't actually match up with the reality.
Gowron's best appearance in my opinion is when the writers finally leaned all the way into Klingon comedy in DS9's "The House of Quark" in which Quark tries to explain to the visibly confused High Council how his Klingon wife's rival tried to ruin her with financial scheming. The disgust in Gowron's voice over the fact that he's being forced to deal with matters like these is priceless. Yeah, I know, different show, but you're not known to disregard a nice DS9 reference.
Haha , an all that after quark did in detail explain his finencial crimes with all th , and gowron is simplifying it after quark did all the auditory . Poor quark haha.
My favorite Gowron moment is at the end of "Redemption: Part 2" when Toral says, "The Duras family will one day rule the Empire!", and Gowron replies, "Perhaps," and then graces us with the most insane grin you could ever hope for before completing the thought with, "but not today." Pure gold.
@@AaronLitz I just realized something. Gowron's mannerisms and bug eyes are EXACTLY like that of another over the top character: Barbossa. Picture when he said "It's not getting to the land of the dead that's the problem...it's getting back" and picture Gowron saying that. Same bug eyes, same expression, same tone of voice.
One of my favorite Gowron moments was earlier in that same episode. A Klingon (attempted) usurper challenges Gowron to a fight to the death for control of the empire, following the Duras family’s recent victories. Worf insists that they should win the war before fighting one another. After Gowron kills the challenger, he sits on his throne and declares “Now the war…can continue!”
I love that Worf is basically a Klingon fundamentalist, like a Baptist who only drinks grape juice and gets a surprise when he goes to the barbecue. Work is too uptight for other Klingons, which is a common issue among people raised outside their own culture while having a heavy interest in it.
Worf is a Sōhei warrior priest in a hall full of Vikings. He learned how to be a Klingon from reading books, like "The Final Reflection", rather than from living in the life.
@@arbjbornkthe DS9 episode that establishes this is pretty bad (it’s a Risa episode, they’re all pretty bad), but I like the idea that was introduced that as a kid on earth Worf did accidentally kill another kid playing sports and that incident helped shape him into the extremely disciplined restrained person he is rather than leaning into his Klingon passions. There aren’t any really significant Vulcan characters in this era of the franchise until Tuvak, but i would have been fascinated to see some interactions where Worf actually identifies with their philosophy. Even if he still idealizes honor and the code of the warrior over logic in all things, he still could draw insight from the philosophy of stoicism to manage extreme emotions.
Watching you replace the lyrics of a classic sitcom theme with Star Trek material is always a joy. We need Laverne & Shirley to get this treatment at some point. Okay, it's less a need and more of a wish, but I'm allowed to dream
When you do DS9, you will obviously have the best Klingon ever, Martok. But please make sure you include Ben Sisko posing as a Klingon in Apocalypse Rising!
Yes he is the best. Like he is actually a full blood klingon, but distinct eneogh with enough integrity he is not ok with the corruption and the bad aspects from th klingon traditions. And smart actually, but has integrity and honor, but not stupidly so.
I really adore how terrible Worf is as a dad. More characters who are generally good and well meaning should be incompetent at stuff like Worf is at being at dad!
What always stuck with me is when Alexander sees his dead mum on the floor of a strange ship and people, yet worf just leaves him stood there to go hunting duras. What's worse is Dr crusher trying to bring Alexander's mum back to life with another medic and both of them do in front of Alexander....which must have messed with his head. Then add that not a single person tries to stop Alexander from seeing or even put an arm around him to comfort him!!! Or maybe its just me??
Yeah poor kid was basically doomed. I always felt pretty uncomfortable and sad for him. Weirdly neglected at every turn, in front of and behind the camera, to say nothing of the tragedy in the lives of his actors
When you run all these Klingons across the screen in succession it becomes pretty obvious that the head ridges really are far more diverse than many fans seem to think. DSC and ST09 Klingons actually fit right in for the most part.
I love how ham Robert O'Reilly goes with the delivery of "What color...WERE HIS *EYES*?!?!" And just goes full blast with those 10 Million Candlepower Optical Insanity Hi-Beams of his. I scream laugh every time, it's SO GOOD.
I really do love Robert O'Reilly's acting as Gowron. He made the character very enjoyable with his very emotive face. Your Gowron impression is solid btw.
My favorite Kurn moment is his encounter with caviar. He just kinda smears it on his food as if to say, "OK, condiment, I guess? Since no one told me. . . ?" Favorite part of the scene where Worf kills Duras: When Worf just says, "K'Ehlyr was my mate" and Duras' goons are like, "Well, that's your ass then, Duras, have a nice death."
Point on K'Ehleyr: I recall hearing about that TNG writers asked Dorn himself something along the lines of "What do you think would piss Worf off enough to kill someone?" and he said, "Killing K'Ehleyr." and the writers, allegedly, went with it. Oh, and Bob O'Reilly is a really cool guy in real life! :)
They could have both used her death as motivation for Worf to take out Duras AND kept her around. Just have the star trek medical stuff actually work, but not have Worf know. One thing bugs me about that episode though. They establish in other episodes that when you ask the computer to locate an officer, it does so through the Combadge. Which Worf left behind. So the computer shouldn't have been able to tell Riker that Worf left.
I feel that one of the problems with Alexander is that we never really feel a proper connection between worf and him because the writers go out of their way to only introduce the character at the 'annoying child actor' phase and not when he's a baby or toddler when audiences and worf would find him adorable. Like I'd have a lot more time for Alexander if I'd seen Worf doting over him as a baby instead we meet him when he's just old enough to pester Worf with dumb questions and stomp off in a huff.
I'm glad your making this a series. And agreed that Gowron is the best exemplar of how Klingons should be depicted. Still capable of being threatening and geniounly dramtic but also just that slight bit over the top. As if they are in a slightly different genre than the Federation is. I think that contrast between Starfleet and the Klingons really helps elevate both sides via the contrast.
The first Star Trek I ever watched was DS9, so when I started TNG after that, boy did Worf’s shiny hairspray nightmare of a haircut give me the giggles.
DS9 will be the best. Martock obviously, also Worf’s huge character growth. But I also really liked seeing the older Kang, Koloth & Kor (Kor continues to be fun). And I really really liked Sirella and especially Grilka. She was amazing. “I really am very grateful for all you’ve done Quark. That’s why I’m going to let you remove your hand from my thigh instead of shattering every bone in your body”
One of my favorite Gowron moments in TNG is in the episode when Picard is trying to contact him to borrow a cloaked ship but instead, after multiple attempts, he can only speak to a low level assistant who tells Picard that Gowron is busy rewriting Klingon history. While Gowron is offscreen, it just feels like a classic Gowron thing to do, and this scene always makes me chuckle when I watch it. It's improved with Picard's restrained annoyance transformed into a subtle hint that he may have to go to someone else for the help he needs and that then they'd "have his gratitude", which apparently convinced Gowron to send him the cloaked ship Picard needed anyway. It feels like a great character moment for Gowron without even having him on screen.
Dang, how much Patreon do you need to just do s series where you summarize every episode of every show, in order? I absolutely adore your style in this regard.
One of the things I found interesting in "Reunion" is that Kimpec's poisoner was never named. Sure, it was PROBABLY Duros, but it was never definitively proven, at least not on screen, leaving the slight possibilty Gowron did it, and he won succession because his opponent got Worf'd.
Honestly I’m not sure Duras or Gowron had much to gain poisoning Kimpec. As I’m not sure it advanced either of their claims. If anything I think they both wanted more time to build their power base and support and would be more likely to move against the other than Kimpec. Who stood to gain killing Kimpec at a time when it would assure civil war between Duras and Gowron instead of assuring either ascension? Find lowly servant in Kimpec’s household who’s a surgically modified Tal’Shiar agent. The Duras siblings probably weren’t in the loop on that part of the plan at all - they though their allies wanted to secure their ascension, when of course the real goal was a Klingon Empire torn apart in chaos.
I mean... they're an alien species? Why would you assume that's just not the way they're supposed to age once you're shown that's the way they age? Do they really need to spell it out in words somewhere?
Also if ever anyone asks you "Have you told anyone else." about some crimes or conspiracy you've uncovered. The answer is always "Yes." for example "Are you kidding I'm live streaming this on TH-cam right now!"
Also presumably when Skeletor was asked about watching Worf and K'Ehleyr getting it on he probably said "Men who crave power look back over the mistakes of their lives, pile them all together and call it destiny."
My favorite random TNG trivia: Every german millenial will know Gowron, even though they may never wathed a single episode of TNG or DS9. There were test shots of Robert O’Reilly as Gowron, saying random Stuff and shouting. In a german TH-cam poop Video, someone made a dub, saying: "Titten. GNAH!" (meaning: Boobs) And sadly, i knew the meme way befor TNG and he is and will forever be the "Tittenklingone"...
"honor means whatever a given Klingon in a given situation says it means" Arguably, that's very close to how cultures with a concept of "honor", especially warrior's honor, treat the notion. Of course cultures have their norms of honourable behaviour, but given that "knightly" virtues or their equivalent are often espoused by members of a ruling class or at least a class enjoying special privileges, honour in that sense tends to be very malleable, for better or for worse. The world is a very rich, diverse place, but "people in power treat rules they themselves set up as at best guidelines" is, I feel, one of the universals across time and space.
GAWD, I can't wait for your DS9 follow-up, where you revisit Alexander, Kurn, and Gowron. And you get to talk about Martok! Also, side note: anyone else kinda irritated about how they left things off with Kurn? Worf becomes one of the highest ranking Klingons in the Empire, and "son" of a great house, and they just leave Kurn with his entire history erased, no clue who he really is? Done him dirty. >:(
Great vid! I always loved the Klingon episodes, it gave us a chance to look into their culture. I loved K'Ehleyr! She was a great, strong character, I love the on-screen chemistry with her and Worf. She was funny, sassy and brave. But, her character was far too strong to be female, so had to die. (I'm not saying anything, but, hey, Rick Berman.) I didn't mind Alexander. He was a kid, they're annoying. One of the many reasons I haven't reproduced. Gowron had some great lines, and superbly delivered. I love that line in "Rightful Heir" where Gowron is particularly menacing and says to Kahless, "What was he wearing? How tall was he? **menacing** WHAT COLOUR WERE HIS EYES?" **wide eyed stare** 🤣🤣🤣🤣 th-cam.com/video/dEVtRp9ReU8/w-d-xo.html
Honestly the offing of Duras was well earned. As was Gowron's... but I really wish they hadn't fridged K'Ehleyr, you're right she would have been an awesome throughline :) And there could have been moments where K'Ehleyr came back to visit with her son and finds out that Worf's parenting is an absolute sh*tshow... And she decides to stay for a bit... would have loved more of that and eventually just have K'Ehleyr be like, 'That's it, we're out'.
Two takeaways I have: 1) I cannot believe K'Eylar is only in two episodes, she is so iconic! 1a) I swear I say that every time I realise that 2) Wow, there are so many Klingons in TNG. Your exclusion list is as long as the TOS Klingons.
The Mary Tylor Moore Show themed song for Gowron came out of nowhere and it is the best thing I have witnessed in a long time! Official recording please!! 🙏🙏🙏
There might not be a law that says you have to write kids into TNG, but the original intent of the Galaxy-class was that they'd be deep space exploration vessels, so kids were essential to that. They kind of gave up on that premise as soon as they had the Enterprise return to Earth in "Conspiracy," but the ship still had families aboard.
🤣🤣¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I just made a horrible, newbie mistake. I tried to sip coffee during the Mary Tyler Moore song. Blizzard conditions outside. I now have freezing coffee all over my nightgown. Thanks. I love how you're already salty with your viewers, before you've even finished your intro.
At 4:32 *[pushes my glasses up my nose]* It is Um, Actually instead of "Well actually" that comes from the game show about pedantic corrections th-cam.com/video/DmBUfTtrdwc/w-d-xo.html
My head canon is the Klingon's we see in TNG are basically bored aristocrats. It's the equivalent of serfs and merchants that do all the building, science-ing and such but we never see them. But because they're an empire, there are still millions of 'nobles' with nothing better to do than play honour and war. Not unlike how in TNG all we see of humans is Starfleet (almost all anyway).
Robert O’Reilly's Gowron was always my favorite. His Manson like eyes were perfect for his character. That was on full display when Toral declared that the Duras family would one day rule the empire. Gowron looked at him with that inimitable wide eyed grin, and in his low, gravelly voice says “Perhaps… but not today.” That was classic Klingon.🤪
I actually liked Alexander's appearances. They could be handled better, but what couldn't? And I especially love Majel Barrett as Lwaxana Troi throwing some serious silliness into the mix. "Cost of Living", the episode they both appear in, is one of my favorites of TNG. I won't go so far as saying it's objectively good, but like a lot of Trek you dislike, I have differing tastes on what I find enjoyable. I'll even blaspheme by stating I like Voyager over DS9! Also for some reason I wasn't subscribed to your channel, so I fixed that. I'm happy to disagree over tastes in sci-fi and agree on chicken sandwiches and wizard schools.
Ngl, Gowron is fantasic and fun to watch, but my favs have to be the Duras sisters. So few female antagonists get to be fun evil. They were fun for teenaged me to watch.
How is it that listening to you talk in depth about an episode of tng that I have seen too many times to count is as fun as actually watching one of the best episodes of my favorite show in my favorite franchise?
I agree that they shouldn’t have killed off K’Ehleyr and she’s one of my favorite minor trek characters, but I don’t think Worf would have ever gotten with Jadzia if K’Ehleyr were still alive, though.
I know this video was about the show and not any of the Beta material ... but I LOVED the novel which revealed that the Kahless clone was actually a clone of Morath (Kahless' "brother") and that Morath actually came closer to embodying Klingon ideals than Kahless!
On the topic of Worf: I'd love to see a supercut of all of his "Klingons don't..." lines interspliced with clips of Klingons doing exactly what Worf says they don't do. I don't kow how intentional it was on the writers' part, but I always enjoyed those lines and how they showed Worf having this image of what being a Klingon was and how often it didn't line up with the reality that TNG built.
Steve Shives album. Steve Shives album. Steve Shives album. Steve Shives album. I will keep going until you release an album. I don't care what you choose to sing in that sweet beautiful voice, it will be wonderful. Make it so ❤️
I am *not* a big fan of Gowron, but I _loved_ the Gowren section of this video. I can't decide what I like more, your flawless Gowron impersonation or the Mary Gowron Moore song to open the segment. Fantastic.
All in all, not bad, but would have liked to see some mention of these: K'Vada - the Captain that took Data and Picard to Romulus in the Unification two parter. Played by Stephen Root (going easy against his usual characters), and had some rather unique insight into Romulan females and their propensity to lick your ears when they get a little randy. He was also aware of the Spock situation, and when questioned you could hear Gazzo saying, "You don't think I hear things." in his response. Toq - the young Klingon at the prison camp (you left out all of these Klingons, even in your cuts) in Birthright, part 2, that has his Klingon desires awakened by Worf, and rescues Worf from execution. Koral - from Gambit, part 2, a personal favorite since he's played by James Worthy (of the Showtime Lakers). He only had one line of dialogue. Also, final nitpicks. Worf's father's name is Mogh (pronounced Mōg, long o). Worf pronounces it several times, and so does Kahlest. Barf, of Spaceballs is a Mog (pronounced Mawg). Ba'el is pronounced Bai-el by her father. Would have liked a little more discussion of K'Mpec and his willingness to act against honor to hold the Empire together, but he did get a mention. Lastly, no mention of the Klingon females that wanted to schtoop Riker in A Matter of Honor?
Gowron is one of the best Klingons because he epitomized the a lot of the hypocrisy of the empire, where as the Duras family are basically Romulan Klingon ex-pats the way Worf is a Fed.
Worf kicking ass is usually pretty good. They give Dorn a bit of fight choreography every now and then, but especially in teh DS9 stuff. But when Worf is getting revenge, that a whole nother level there. When I saw "Old Boy" I thought, this should be Worf.
I feel like K'Ehleyr and Jadzia would have gotten along really well, much to Worf's chagrin. I can just picture the two of them huddled over drinks at a table at Quark's, giggling. We just catch a snippet of their conversation, "-and he just melts like a kitten!" "I know, right?!" Then we pan over to Worf seething intently at the bar while Quark silently slides him another prune juice.
"Oh mate, the missus and the ex! Welcome to every man's worst nightmare."
Or:
Worf enters his quarter and see K'Ehleyr and Jadzia on the couch looking at him seductively.
"We were waiting for you to have some fun, join us!"
Worf, still in the coridor closes the door back.
"Told you!", says Jadzia and they both giggle.
The potential for sexual tension between K'Ehleyr and Jadzia would've been epic! Considering how homophobic the higher-ups were it would never have been canon, but still would've been worth it, if only to see Word have an aneurysm.
@@MuadMouse But Jadzia had already had her lesbian episode before that when she got together with Lenara Kahn so where were those "homophobic the higher-ups" when the episode Rejoined was broadcast? because the symbiont had been in both male and female hosts, , "Gender wasn't the issue" The chances are that Jadzia would be up for a threesome but Worf is a lot more conservative because he didn't even want casual sex with K'Ehleyr and insisted that they get married
Definately see them dunking on Worf in a good natured way. "Remember that time he got his ass beat by an Amazon woman"
"You may notice that he looks very different in that episode than he does in Rightful Heir. That's because this is a TV show." Best summary dismissal of that argument I've heard. You have great honor.
STNG is also a TV show
@@kennethmelnychuk9737yes, they're both TV shows and appearances can change. Kor, Kang, and Koloth also change their appearances between TOS and DS9.
That said, it could also be easily explained by the fact that in TOS that's just how people thought Kahless looked, but they were wrong because it was thousands of years ago and no one alive knows how he really looked.
@@kennethmelnychuk9737 yes, they’re both tv shows. It’s all fiction. Khaless doesn’t have a “real” appearance. That’s the point.
What I always liked about Worf is that the *idea* of being Klingon was so important to him, that he has this default idea of what Klingons are that doesn't actually match up with the reality.
Gowron's best appearance in my opinion is when the writers finally leaned all the way into Klingon comedy in DS9's "The House of Quark" in which Quark tries to explain to the visibly confused High Council how his Klingon wife's rival tried to ruin her with financial scheming. The disgust in Gowron's voice over the fact that he's being forced to deal with matters like these is priceless.
Yeah, I know, different show, but you're not known to disregard a nice DS9 reference.
Haha , an all that after quark did in detail explain his finencial crimes with all th , and gowron is simplifying it after quark did all the auditory . Poor quark haha.
My favorite Gowron moment is at the end of "Redemption: Part 2" when Toral says, "The Duras family will one day rule the Empire!", and Gowron replies, "Perhaps," and then graces us with the most insane grin you could ever hope for before completing the thought with, "but not today." Pure gold.
Gowron's insane-bug-eyed grins were a full third of the reason he got to be Chancellor; no one wants to mess with crazy.
@@AaronLitz I just realized something. Gowron's mannerisms and bug eyes are EXACTLY like that of another over the top character: Barbossa. Picture when he said "It's not getting to the land of the dead that's the problem...it's getting back" and picture Gowron saying that. Same bug eyes, same expression, same tone of voice.
One of my favorite Gowron moments was earlier in that same episode. A Klingon (attempted) usurper challenges Gowron to a fight to the death for control of the empire, following the Duras family’s recent victories. Worf insists that they should win the war before fighting one another. After Gowron kills the challenger, he sits on his throne and declares “Now the war…can continue!”
@@bigevil1001 Worf holds the challenger back in an attempt to get them both to stop fighting, but instead Gowron just casually knifes the guy.
I would say that looking deranged is at least half of being a good Klingon
Your Gowron impression is incredible
I love that Worf is basically a Klingon fundamentalist, like a Baptist who only drinks grape juice and gets a surprise when he goes to the barbecue. Work is too uptight for other Klingons, which is a common issue among people raised outside their own culture while having a heavy interest in it.
Worf is a Sōhei warrior priest in a hall full of Vikings. He learned how to be a Klingon from reading books, like "The Final Reflection", rather than from living in the life.
Prune juice.
@@arbjbornkthe DS9 episode that establishes this is pretty bad (it’s a Risa episode, they’re all pretty bad), but I like the idea that was introduced that as a kid on earth Worf did accidentally kill another kid playing sports and that incident helped shape him into the extremely disciplined restrained person he is rather than leaning into his Klingon passions.
There aren’t any really significant Vulcan characters in this era of the franchise until Tuvak, but i would have been fascinated to see some interactions where Worf actually identifies with their philosophy. Even if he still idealizes honor and the code of the warrior over logic in all things, he still could draw insight from the philosophy of stoicism to manage extreme emotions.
Gowron always does a very thorough job of looking at things
🧿 🧿
😂😂😂😂
Watching you replace the lyrics of a classic sitcom theme with Star Trek material is always a joy. We need Laverne & Shirley to get this treatment at some point. Okay, it's less a need and more of a wish, but I'm allowed to dream
Great video, Steve! I'm looking forward to the Klingons of DS9 (I'm hoping). Martok forever!
That Klingon chef needs his own episode.
Martok is my favorite Klingon, sorry Worf. Martok forever!
Yeah, Meet the Klingons of DS9 is going to be lit!
And Linkassa
*Me:* Wow, Steve has a _lot_ of Star Trek action figures.
*Also me:* _(watching this while building my 7123rd Gundam kit)_
When you do DS9, you will obviously have the best Klingon ever, Martok. But please make sure you include Ben Sisko posing as a Klingon in Apocalypse Rising!
Hail Martok!
Yes he is the best. Like he is actually a full blood klingon, but distinct eneogh with enough integrity he is not ok with the corruption and the bad aspects from th klingon traditions. And smart actually, but has integrity and honor, but not stupidly so.
If Capt Sisko were born a Klingon he probably would had position in High Council, or perhaps even made it the Chancellor's chair
Kor, the Dahar Master battled 10 Jem’Hadar ships to buy time for Martok and the Rottaron crew escape.
the scene were Worf allowed to be dishonored ... shows he has more honor than the entire high council.
the Mary Tyler Moore theme parody for Gowron was 100% pure gold. Well done.
I really adore how terrible Worf is as a dad. More characters who are generally good and well meaning should be incompetent at stuff like Worf is at being at dad!
What always stuck with me is when Alexander sees his dead mum on the floor of a strange ship and people, yet worf just leaves him stood there to go hunting duras. What's worse is Dr crusher trying to bring Alexander's mum back to life with another medic and both of them do in front of Alexander....which must have messed with his head. Then add that not a single person tries to stop Alexander from seeing or even put an arm around him to comfort him!!! Or maybe its just me??
Yeah poor kid was basically doomed. I always felt pretty uncomfortable and sad for him. Weirdly neglected at every turn, in front of and behind the camera, to say nothing of the tragedy in the lives of his actors
Worf doesn't just not protect him; he MAKES Alexander look at the bloody corpse.
@@UntoTheBreach24 damn I never looked into the actors’ fates, but now I guess I gotta otherwise I’ll keep wondering if it was worse than Jennifer Lien
Only Steve could turn the theme song from The Mary Tylor Moore Show into something so priceless. Really made my day. Thank you beyond words.
When you run all these Klingons across the screen in succession it becomes pretty obvious that the head ridges really are far more diverse than many fans seem to think. DSC and ST09 Klingons actually fit right in for the most part.
"Okay, second worst daddy" perfection
Gowron has to be my favorite Klingon. "What color were his eyes?" is just a quick witted reply to a savior's attempt at parabling.
I love in "Sins of the father" when Worf slaps Duras, and K'mpec just grins and nods his head
'Kahless is back? Well, fuck him!' 😆 You made me actually laugh out loud with that.
the gowron voice is spot on -taQ'pu eQ
Gowron is such a fantastic, starey eyed, crazy klingon. Such great one-liners.
Did the set designers realize that they made the lights in that Klingon council chamber look like a bunch of giant googly eyes?
I agree, my favourite type of Klingon is the hamming-it-up space barbarian. Drunk ol' Kor in DS9 was also a great portrayal.
I love how ham Robert O'Reilly goes with the delivery of "What color...WERE HIS *EYES*?!?!" And just goes full blast with those 10 Million Candlepower Optical Insanity Hi-Beams of his. I scream laugh every time, it's SO GOOD.
It scared the shit out of me! I thought he might come out of the TV screen and kill my whole family....
The line, “Who can take a bad day to die, and make it worthwhile?” Almost made me pee a little bit. Bravo to you sir. 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
I really do love Robert O'Reilly's acting as Gowron. He made the character very enjoyable with his very emotive face.
Your Gowron impression is solid btw.
lmao @ the Gowron Tyler Moore song
My favorite Kurn moment is his encounter with caviar. He just kinda smears it on his food as if to say, "OK, condiment, I guess? Since no one told me. . . ?" Favorite part of the scene where Worf kills Duras: When Worf just says, "K'Ehlyr was my mate" and Duras' goons are like, "Well, that's your ass then, Duras, have a nice death."
"I will try some of your burned, replicated bird meat."
It turns out - That was a really good day to die!
Thank you for echoing my sentiments about Kehlar. She was way too awesome to be in only 2 episodes!
Point on K'Ehleyr: I recall hearing about that TNG writers asked Dorn himself something along the lines of "What do you think would piss Worf off enough to kill someone?" and he said, "Killing K'Ehleyr." and the writers, allegedly, went with it.
Oh, and Bob O'Reilly is a really cool guy in real life! :)
They could have both used her death as motivation for Worf to take out Duras AND kept her around. Just have the star trek medical stuff actually work, but not have Worf know.
One thing bugs me about that episode though. They establish in other episodes that when you ask the computer to locate an officer, it does so through the Combadge. Which Worf left behind. So the computer shouldn't have been able to tell Riker that Worf left.
I feel that one of the problems with Alexander is that we never really feel a proper connection between worf and him because the writers go out of their way to only introduce the character at the 'annoying child actor' phase and not when he's a baby or toddler when audiences and worf would find him adorable. Like I'd have a lot more time for Alexander if I'd seen Worf doting over him as a baby instead we meet him when he's just old enough to pester Worf with dumb questions and stomp off in a huff.
I'm glad your making this a series. And agreed that Gowron is the best exemplar of how Klingons should be depicted. Still capable of being threatening and geniounly dramtic but also just that slight bit over the top. As if they are in a slightly different genre than the Federation is. I think that contrast between Starfleet and the Klingons really helps elevate both sides via the contrast.
The first Star Trek I ever watched was DS9, so when I started TNG after that, boy did Worf’s shiny hairspray nightmare of a haircut give me the giggles.
DS9 will be the best. Martock obviously, also Worf’s huge character growth.
But I also really liked seeing the older Kang, Koloth & Kor (Kor continues to be fun).
And I really really liked Sirella and especially Grilka. She was amazing. “I really am very grateful for all you’ve done Quark. That’s why I’m going to let you remove your hand from my thigh instead of shattering every bone in your body”
OUTSTANDING take on the Mary Tyler Moore song! Would love to see this form of summary becoming a regular feature.
One of my favorite Gowron moments in TNG is in the episode when Picard is trying to contact him to borrow a cloaked ship but instead, after multiple attempts, he can only speak to a low level assistant who tells Picard that Gowron is busy rewriting Klingon history. While Gowron is offscreen, it just feels like a classic Gowron thing to do, and this scene always makes me chuckle when I watch it. It's improved with Picard's restrained annoyance transformed into a subtle hint that he may have to go to someone else for the help he needs and that then they'd "have his gratitude", which apparently convinced Gowron to send him the cloaked ship Picard needed anyway. It feels like a great character moment for Gowron without even having him on screen.
OMG! Your Gowron impression is spot on.
Dang, how much Patreon do you need to just do s series where you summarize every episode of every show, in order? I absolutely adore your style in this regard.
I love the commitment to the Mary Tyler Moore bit!
Hay Steve. You have a good voice. Sing away brother!
One of the things I found interesting in "Reunion" is that Kimpec's poisoner was never named. Sure, it was PROBABLY Duros, but it was never definitively proven, at least not on screen, leaving the slight possibilty Gowron did it, and he won succession because his opponent got Worf'd.
Honestly I’m not sure Duras or Gowron had much to gain poisoning Kimpec. As I’m not sure it advanced either of their claims. If anything I think they both wanted more time to build their power base and support and would be more likely to move against the other than Kimpec.
Who stood to gain killing Kimpec at a time when it would assure civil war between Duras and Gowron instead of assuring either ascension?
Find lowly servant in Kimpec’s household who’s a surgically modified Tal’Shiar agent. The Duras siblings probably weren’t in the loop on that part of the plan at all - they though their allies wanted to secure their ascension, when of course the real goal was a Klingon Empire torn apart in chaos.
I would have liked to see the time travel episode that explains how Alexander aged that quickly.
I mean... they're an alien species? Why would you assume that's just not the way they're supposed to age once you're shown that's the way they age? Do they really need to spell it out in words somewhere?
Yeah I’m with ttintagel. Klingons can just mature at that speed. It’s fine.
TIL Steve has a rather lovely singing voice. I'm impressed. And a little jealous.
Also if ever anyone asks you "Have you told anyone else." about some crimes or conspiracy you've uncovered. The answer is always "Yes." for example "Are you kidding I'm live streaming this on TH-cam right now!"
Also presumably when Skeletor was asked about watching Worf and K'Ehleyr getting it on he probably said "Men who crave power look back over the mistakes of their lives, pile them all together and call it destiny."
Someone needs to deep fake Gowron into the intro of the Mary Tyler Moore show.
I know Martok isn't TNG, but he's such a great Klingon he should have still gotten a segment in this video.
Hopefully, there will be a Klingons of DS9 video coming soon!
My favorite random TNG trivia: Every german millenial will know Gowron, even though they may never wathed a single episode of TNG or DS9.
There were test shots of Robert O’Reilly as Gowron, saying random Stuff and shouting. In a german TH-cam poop Video, someone made a dub, saying: "Titten. GNAH!" (meaning: Boobs)
And sadly, i knew the meme way befor TNG and he is and will forever be the "Tittenklingone"...
"honor means whatever a given Klingon in a given situation says it means"
Arguably, that's very close to how cultures with a concept of "honor", especially warrior's honor, treat the notion.
Of course cultures have their norms of honourable behaviour, but given that "knightly" virtues or their equivalent are often espoused by members of a ruling class or at least a class enjoying special privileges, honour in that sense tends to be very malleable, for better or for worse.
The world is a very rich, diverse place, but "people in power treat rules they themselves set up as at best guidelines" is, I feel, one of the universals across time and space.
GAWD, I can't wait for your DS9 follow-up, where you revisit Alexander, Kurn, and Gowron. And you get to talk about Martok!
Also, side note: anyone else kinda irritated about how they left things off with Kurn? Worf becomes one of the highest ranking Klingons in the Empire, and "son" of a great house, and they just leave Kurn with his entire history erased, no clue who he really is? Done him dirty. >:(
Can't decide what's better: the singing or Gowron impersonation.
Great vid!
I always loved the Klingon episodes, it gave us a chance to look into their culture.
I loved K'Ehleyr! She was a great, strong character, I love the on-screen chemistry with her and Worf. She was funny, sassy and brave. But, her character was far too strong to be female, so had to die. (I'm not saying anything, but, hey, Rick Berman.)
I didn't mind Alexander. He was a kid, they're annoying. One of the many reasons I haven't reproduced.
Gowron had some great lines, and superbly delivered. I love that line in "Rightful Heir" where Gowron is particularly menacing and says to Kahless, "What was he wearing? How tall was he? **menacing** WHAT COLOUR WERE HIS EYES?" **wide eyed stare** 🤣🤣🤣🤣 th-cam.com/video/dEVtRp9ReU8/w-d-xo.html
Honestly the offing of Duras was well earned. As was Gowron's... but I really wish they hadn't fridged K'Ehleyr, you're right she would have been an awesome throughline :) And there could have been moments where K'Ehleyr came back to visit with her son and finds out that Worf's parenting is an absolute sh*tshow... And she decides to stay for a bit... would have loved more of that and eventually just have K'Ehleyr be like, 'That's it, we're out'.
You're a decent singer at around 22:00
Two takeaways I have:
1) I cannot believe K'Eylar is only in two episodes, she is so iconic!
1a) I swear I say that every time I realise that
2) Wow, there are so many Klingons in TNG. Your exclusion list is as long as the TOS Klingons.
Glory to you and your video.
I always loved how the Klingnon Civil War got wrapped up in two episodes.
Most Star Trek wars get wrapped up that quickly. The original Federation-Klingon wars, the Federation-Cardassian War...
"Glory to you... and your Housssse..." (Gowron's favourite line).
That final “Hahahaha…not everybody” laugh was a bizarrely good Christopher Lambert-esque laugh.
The Mary Tylor Moore Show themed song for Gowron came out of nowhere and it is the best thing I have witnessed in a long time! Official recording please!! 🙏🙏🙏
Gowron starred in a Klingon computer game and he was great in that.
There might not be a law that says you have to write kids into TNG, but the original intent of the Galaxy-class was that they'd be deep space exploration vessels, so kids were essential to that. They kind of gave up on that premise as soon as they had the Enterprise return to Earth in "Conspiracy," but the ship still had families aboard.
Great Gowron impression
🤣🤣¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I just made a horrible, newbie mistake.
I tried to sip coffee during the Mary Tyler Moore song.
Blizzard conditions outside.
I now have freezing coffee all over my nightgown.
Thanks.
I love how you're already salty with your viewers, before you've even finished your intro.
At 4:32 *[pushes my glasses up my nose]* It is Um, Actually instead of "Well actually" that comes from the game show about pedantic corrections th-cam.com/video/DmBUfTtrdwc/w-d-xo.html
My head canon is the Klingon's we see in TNG are basically bored aristocrats. It's the equivalent of serfs and merchants that do all the building, science-ing and such but we never see them. But because they're an empire, there are still millions of 'nobles' with nothing better to do than play honour and war. Not unlike how in TNG all we see of humans is Starfleet (almost all anyway).
Bored nobles like the Centauri? Mollari, Reefa, Cartagia et al?
Robert O’Reilly's Gowron was always my favorite. His Manson like eyes were perfect for his character. That was on full display when Toral declared that the Duras family would one day rule the empire. Gowron looked at him with that inimitable wide eyed grin, and in his low, gravelly voice says “Perhaps… but not today.” That was classic Klingon.🤪
The Gowron impression is spot on! Especially the way you say civil war… love it!
Love the way you resummarize the plot and dialog. Hilarious!
I used to leave the vcr paused on a close up of gowron's face to freak out the next person who turned on the TV
Impeccable Gowron impression, no notes.
Gowron deserves his own video.
His eyes need their own video. 😂
lol
I actually liked Alexander's appearances. They could be handled better, but what couldn't? And I especially love Majel Barrett as Lwaxana Troi throwing some serious silliness into the mix. "Cost of Living", the episode they both appear in, is one of my favorites of TNG. I won't go so far as saying it's objectively good, but like a lot of Trek you dislike, I have differing tastes on what I find enjoyable. I'll even blaspheme by stating I like Voyager over DS9!
Also for some reason I wasn't subscribed to your channel, so I fixed that. I'm happy to disagree over tastes in sci-fi and agree on chicken sandwiches and wizard schools.
Worf is a Klingonaboo that studied the blade and rose to the peaks of Klingon Society...
I feel like the "A matter of Honor" Klingons were pretty fun, I guess I'll have to watch the episode now that you've reminded me of them
"Cost of Living" is actually one of my favorite episodes.
Holy musical interlude Batman!
Ngl, Gowron is fantasic and fun to watch, but my favs have to be the Duras sisters. So few female antagonists get to be fun evil. They were fun for teenaged me to watch.
How is it that listening to you talk in depth about an episode of tng that I have seen too many times to count is as fun as actually watching one of the best episodes of my favorite show in my favorite franchise?
I agree that they shouldn’t have killed off K’Ehleyr and she’s one of my favorite minor trek characters, but I don’t think Worf would have ever gotten with Jadzia if K’Ehleyr were still alive, though.
I know this video was about the show and not any of the Beta material ... but I LOVED the novel which revealed that the Kahless clone was actually a clone of Morath (Kahless' "brother") and that Morath actually came closer to embodying Klingon ideals than Kahless!
I had no idea Steve could do such a good Gowron impression!
It's been 7 months since you posted this video, and the Gowron Slaughters More song still cracks me up. Thanks, Steve. Love your work.
Gotta say, Steve's Gowron impression is pretty on-point
On the topic of Worf: I'd love to see a supercut of all of his "Klingons don't..." lines interspliced with clips of Klingons doing exactly what Worf says they don't do. I don't kow how intentional it was on the writers' part, but I always enjoyed those lines and how they showed Worf having this image of what being a Klingon was and how often it didn't line up with the reality that TNG built.
Steve Shives album.
Steve Shives album.
Steve Shives album.
Steve Shives album.
I will keep going until you release an album. I don't care what you choose to sing in that sweet beautiful voice, it will be wonderful. Make it so ❤️
I am *not* a big fan of Gowron, but I _loved_ the Gowren section of this video. I can't decide what I like more, your flawless Gowron impersonation or the Mary Gowron Moore song to open the segment. Fantastic.
this is the best description of Gowron by anyone I've watched has done!!!
My favourite TNG Klingon moment is the giant in the clown shuttle.
Watching this on small cell phone screen had me find out the room of high council is decorated with Gowrons big eyes
All in all, not bad, but would have liked to see some mention of these:
K'Vada - the Captain that took Data and Picard to Romulus in the Unification two parter. Played by Stephen Root (going easy against his usual characters), and had some rather unique insight into Romulan females and their propensity to lick your ears when they get a little randy. He was also aware of the Spock situation, and when questioned you could hear Gazzo saying, "You don't think I hear things." in his response.
Toq - the young Klingon at the prison camp (you left out all of these Klingons, even in your cuts) in Birthright, part 2, that has his Klingon desires awakened by Worf, and rescues Worf from execution.
Koral - from Gambit, part 2, a personal favorite since he's played by James Worthy (of the Showtime Lakers). He only had one line of dialogue.
Also, final nitpicks. Worf's father's name is Mogh (pronounced Mōg, long o). Worf pronounces it several times, and so does Kahlest. Barf, of Spaceballs is a Mog (pronounced Mawg).
Ba'el is pronounced Bai-el by her father.
Would have liked a little more discussion of K'Mpec and his willingness to act against honor to hold the Empire together, but he did get a mention.
Lastly, no mention of the Klingon females that wanted to schtoop Riker in A Matter of Honor?
If I ever need someone to do a voiceover as Gowron, now I know who to call.
Gowron is one of the best Klingons because he epitomized the a lot of the hypocrisy of the empire, where as the Duras family are basically Romulan Klingon ex-pats the way Worf is a Fed.
Now do Klingons of DS9 please.
Excellent Gowron impression!
Worf kicking ass is usually pretty good. They give Dorn a bit of fight choreography every now and then, but especially in teh DS9 stuff.
But when Worf is getting revenge, that a whole nother level there. When I saw "Old Boy" I thought, this should be Worf.
"... 2nd worst daddy"
LMAO, ok that made me spit up some of my coffee
These pieces are always so much fun. Thank you Steve!
Thank you for your content. I love what you do, and agree with you most of the time. Keep 'em coming!