The problem with historical fiction is that a lot of people read it and forget the "fiction" part of the genre. I love the genre myself, but I take everything I read with a very large grain of salt, as you have to with any form of fiction. Also, OMG, such an adorable and regal kitty...
@@wcfheadshots240 I tend to do better when it's not about actual people or events, just set in a specific time period. The only exception is this weird book I read like 20 years ago in high school where Edgar Allen Poe teamed up with Davey Crocket to defeat Jack the Ripper. That was so weird and surreal that I couldn't get too mad about the inaccuracies. Although I did wonder why, with all those creative liberties taken, the author chose to leave in the bit about Poe banging his 13 year old cousin. It was a *WEIRD* book...
@@gigiw.7650 Yes. Most likely one of those boulders from the original Doctor Who or Star Trek. The ones that bounce off the heads of the actors as they flee an avalanche...
Kat K Damn that sounds like a trip. 🤣 Just today I was agreeing with someone that we found it cringey when people name drop or literally make Lovecraft a character in their cosmic horror stories. Yeah, I much prefer it when a story is set in a period, rather than having historical figures as main characters.
I’m totally okay with people who write historical fiction changing events to be more interesting but not if it changes the character of the actual person in question. I think we sometimes forget that these are real people who lived just like us.
I understand that Gregory writes fiction based on history but the way portrays the characters kind of annoys me. Especially how pits the women against each other.
A very long time ago, I read a biography about Anne Boleyn and it was full of nasty inferences. This is a new one. I am always amazed at how people will paint an unflattering point of view just to increase gossip and sales (book, movie, television series). All the people we tune into your channel to hear about are long dead, so the only point I can see for misinformation is money. Thank you for your help in understanding, once again, people are motivated by greed, just as they were 400 years ago.
I learned long ago not to take my true history lessons from Hollywood and fiction novels. I did not like the film, "The Other Boleyn Girl" although I did think Eric Bana was gorgeous. ;) Thanks for clarifying what really happened in those relationships.
I have a small hissy fit when people try to tell me things about Anne, or Margaret Beaufort, that could only have come from PG's novels. I do appreciate that she has bought many people into studying the proper history, but the means do not justify the ends when they destroy a persons reputation on no evidence whatsoever. If only the dead could sue!
I love this series. It debunks so many myths that have colored the character of so many honest and interesting historical figures who I've always wanted to like better. Although she probably was bot perfect by any means, Anne Boleyne certainly didn't deserve her fate, and even less, her villainous reputation. Thank Claire Ridgeway.
Two videos in one day!! You’ve made my day! It’s hard when a historical *FICTION* novel gets taken as historical *FACT* We as readers need to remember that it’s a fictional book, with parts of the storyline coming completely from Ms Gregory’s imagination, not from a trusted contemporary historical resource. Thank you for all of your hard work and I can’t wait to watch tomorrow’s video!
🇭🇲🦘 SO pleased that you put things straight in this video. I was aware of the truth, but so many believe the fictional works (only Based on fact) instead of realising that 'poetic licence' is rife. As you said, with Henry Carey becoming a 'ward' of his aunt, Anne Boleyn, his prospects in future life were assured, and were with him later in life, working for his cousin Queen Elizabeth in so many important roles. There is no way that Elizabeth would have 'employed' him in this way (regardless of being cousins) unless he was very capable of doing the work. Important work at that! After all, Elizabeth was no fool and knew that she needed talented and well educated people around her, to help her rule. If Henry Carey had not been suitable, he would not have worked at court. Thank you Claire 👑👍
I did like the movie. However, it is difficult for me to watch as it strays so far from fact and lovely though Eric Banna is, he looks nothing like our King Henry! In the movie I did like Mary more, but that is just because I like that actress more. The end of the movie with Mary rushing to save and take up the baby Princess Elizabeth, is so far from fact that while it feels like a better ending, it is so sad because I know it is not true.
They just went with the Philipa Gregory it's a little fact & alot of fantasy... Just like the new mary queen of scots movie... Its a romantic notion to think both Mary & Elizabeth did meet (maybe they did in secret")
I was very disappointed to learn that most of the fiction by Ms Gregory was untrue as initially I enjoyed the book. I've done a bit of writing myself and yes, it's all fiction so I don't know how difficult it is to write about historical fact and make it interesting without using artistic licence. However, I think it's a bit of a cop out when some people claim the term 'based on history' gives permission (for want of a better word) to twist it and work it purely for entertainment. It's history, it happened, please write it as it happened. I'd rather read true history that may be a tad boring (though not always) than read untrue versions in the name of entertainment. These were real people; don't play with their lives.
I can't help feeling sorry for that little group of boys including Henry Carey and the Norris boy. What a shock for them to have their secure world smashed. The Norris child lost a father, Henry Carey lost an aunt who, I suspect, had seemed an angelic dispenser of favors to him. And I am sure there were others. They were certainly given an education in the ways of courts, roughly but effectively.
Amanda Contreras I second this! I’m currently re-reading The Boleyn King series, which is a total “what if” historical fiction series. And I’d love for Claire to discuss how certain things could’ve turned out if Anne really did have a son that lived. I feel like a whole video series of all the inaccuracies of Philippa Gregory’s novels would be needed, as well.
I am very glad you shared your thoughts and historical insight on this matter, as well as the dates and particulars surrounding the affair and marriage of Mary Boleyn , as I was quite confused when discussing this particular issue with fellow Renaissance festival workers/patrons/Tudor enthusiast who have clearly relied on this book (which I still have not read lol) as their primary resource when they were adamantly declaring that Henry Carey was the son of King Henry . Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge and providing clarity for me on the matter, I will definitely be better prepared for this discussion the next time it pops up. You rock my socks off
Thank you for more fully explaining the distinction btwn adoption and wardship. At least the Philippa Gregory novels have attracted more interest to Tudor History, although the downside being the artistic license that leads to biases and opinions not founded on historical scholarship and facts. Thank you for interesting addit info re Mary and Little Henry to dispel the fiction portrayed in The Other Boleyn Girl. The beautiful figures of Eric Bana, Scarlet Johanson et al attract viewers, but I appreciate the historical citations and accuracy you strive to convey. Perhaps less glamorous, but vitally important to understanding these historical figures roles in Tudor Society. Thank you, Claire!
I also hated how they had Henry rape Anne, in the movie....no where historically was this ever a truth...,also clarie, do you think Mary was jealous or upset about Anne getting her position with Henry??
I do think historical fiction writers have some responsibility to portray the characters fairly. It's all too easy to make a normal person into a villain. Heck, even actor portrayal in movies can do the trick. Richard III in Shakespeare's play is very much written as the villain. Yet I dare you to watch The Hollow Crown version of the play and come away without at least a bit of sympathy for the guy. (And I double dare you to watch the WHOLE second series of The Hollow Crown without feeling sorry for him)
Hi Claire! I have a question for you from a long time... was the marriage between Elizabeth Howard and Thomas Boleyn a love marriage or an arrangement? And for the video... I really hate Philippa Gregory's novel because it makes Anne look like a bad woman... Authors should pay attention to what they write in their historical novels because there are a lot of people who actually believe to those novels... So basically Anne was like a "foster mother" for the little Henry Carey?
It was an arrangement the Howard's were just getting back in favour with the new king & didn't have as much power as they came to have later on... Elizabeth was known to dislike her husband...
Anne took on Carey as a safety net incase the worse should happen the problem was he was not legitimate Henry viii son, so Anne failed in her duties As for Philipa she writes the (What If) books delves into life then it's fantasy with as much historical accuracy as she can weave in, she only suggests this 'could' have happened as their are so many theories out about Anne But we know she didn't do anything to Warrent her death or the 5 men either
It appears to have been arranged and was a good match for both of them. Thomas was a rising star and the Howards had been down on their luck but were the most prominent family in England.
"The Other Boleyn Girl" received something like Historical Romance of the Year title for 2002. Philippa Gregory's books read like romance novels which I think they are. My personal preferences in historical fiction are books where you can actually learn history and real life in the time periods presented. I very much like Norah Lofts' works. It is possible to present real life while adding supposed emotions of the historical figures. I would suppose Mary Boleyn was greatly relieved and comforted by her sister having wardship for the Carey son.
I know you mentioned The Other Boleyn girl but I'm reading Alison Weir's The King's Obsession currently and this is a plotline in that too. But in Weir's novel Mary Carey is aghast that Anne is granted Henry Carey's wardship and Anne has to hasten to reassure her she isn't trying to take her son.
Wardships were treated almost like stocks and bonds are today; held as investments, sold and traded back and forth. By taking on Henry Cary's wardship, Anne Boleyn was keeping control of him and his inheritance, such as it was, in the family and looking out for his interests.
I was stunned by the invented events/ sub story Phillipa Gregory writes in that book and the film adaption. Sure it's entertaining.. but personally I find it annoying. The stories of these figures is interesting enough without needing to be needlessly twisted from the truth. And as for The Tudors series.... visually stunning but my god did they take liberties! I think Hilary Mantel does a great job of recreating the time and characters without needlessly 'sexing up' everything at the expense of all historical accuracy.
I wonder about Mary Boleyn Carey's children's looks or appearance. It's sad but not unexpected there are so few portraits of the children during that time period.
Of course anyone who is played crusader kings 1 or 2 knows about the ward thing since that’s an important part of the game anne close to her niece and nephew that was actually an act of kindness sense Mary was broke I don’t know how Philippa Gregory Twisted that then again she portrayed anne as guilty and turned Elizabeth into Lollita with the Thomas Seymour thing I’m surprise she hasn’t been metoed yet .
Years ago I was listening to a historian on a podcast, who said he can't read historical novels in his area of expertise because he is concerned that it will cloud his judgement and he can't wait to retire (he was a professor) so he could (read historical novels).
That's kind of strange. I think the knowledge of actual historical events would spoil the fun of reading some historical novels, especially when an antagonist should really have been portrayed as a protagonist. Anne Boleyn was a human being and thus not a total saint, but she was also not close to the opposite.
Hi, Claire! I’ve been doing research on Anne Boleyn for a novel and your channel has been fantastic in helping me. My question about Anne Boleyn is when her birthday was? (Since theres so much controversy between historians about it.)
Oh wow. Thank you so much for that information. Cleared it up extremely well for me. I don't believe he was King Henry's son at all. The movie depicts Mary having King Henry's son but t hats all for entertainment purpose. Then again who knows 100 per cent he wasn't. It's all so fascinating. I live for this. Queen Anne I feel was very outspoken for that time. He loved it at first then in the end it was a part in her demise. She had gumption t hats for sure. The beginning of feminism??? No perhaps not. However if she were alive today I think she could run for presidency. . What a woman. One question. How were you chosen if you want to court or not? Did you have to be of high ranking? I ask this as one of his his closest minions was a butcher's son. Thank you. Great video
another good video ;) By the way. Adoption as we know today.Did that really exist in Tudor times ?? Since Henry Carey was Anne Boleyns ward .What happened with Henry Carey and with Henry Norris son when Anne Boleyn and henry Norris where executed. ?
A lot of damage can be done to historical figures by reading historical novels, I like to read them, like many people, but unless you know the 'real' facts you can actually fall for the narrative being real. Philippa Gregory is an author who has taken all the inaccuracies of Anne's life and woven a interesting but totally inaccurate tale that many people may believe.
Agreed and painted Anne in a really bad light. The poor woman had awful accusations thrown at her in life, and these inaccuracies are still being told, for instance, her relationship with her brother. Sadly people believe what they read in novels.
Question: What does the tattoo on your left arm say? I apologize if this question has been asked and answered before, but I'm quite curious what it says. It looks like a quote, could it perhaps be a Anne Boleyn one?
I hated the other boleyn girl film did not like how Anne boleyn was being portrayed I also hated the part in the movie where Henry v111 raped anne. I have watched the film once and won't be again. It would be nice if phillipa Gregory actually done a series true to history but I did love the series on the white queen. X
THIS!!! Just like he did with the one illegitimate son he DID have! And when Edward VI died, you'd think that if Henry Carey was Henry VIII's son, *someone* would've pointed at him & said, "Well, he's illegitimate, but he IS a man, sooo...."
How many other prominent women - not including the Kings mother & not women who were married - were granted the wardship of children? How was this decision making power given to a betrothed yet unmarried woman when that really convened all altitudes about women of that period? Married women - for the most part - were not really in a position to make decisions about their own children, particularly noble families, so I've always wondered why she was granted wardship of Henry. What was it that Anne & Henry got? Wasn't wardship a way of acquiring wealth? Mary was but a poor widow, what did Henry bring to her? Was she really just a loving Aunt doing right by her bereft and widowed sister? I'd likd to think so ... but there's just this lingering doubt. Are there contemporary sources available about the wardship? It's something that I've always wanted to learn more about!
I think it was simply because Mary reached out and Anne was in a position to help. Anne was the boy's aunt too. Wardship was usually a way of aquiring wealth, and in this case it meant that Anne did have custody of the lands of William Carey, Henry's father. As Josephine Wilkinson pointed out in her biography, lands passed to children not to widows, so Mary had no claim over them and Henrry was in his minority. So Anne could have the revenue from those lands while Henry was her ward. The wardship could have been sold/granted to anyone, but by giving it to Anne, it meant that everything was kept in the family and Mary could be supported. Had Anne lived, I'm sure she would have made a good marriage match for him. It appears that Anne may have been responsible for the match between Henry Fitzroy and Mary Howard.
Sorry, here's the reference for you: "Grant to Anne Boleyn, one of the daughters of Viscount Rocheford, of the custody of the lands of William Carye, deceased, during the minority of Henry Carye, his son and heir, with the wardship and marriage of the said heir." 'Henry VIII: Miscellaneous, 1531', in Letters and Papers, Foreign and Domestic, Henry VIII, Volume 5, 1531-1532, ed. James Gairdner (London, 1880), pp. 1-10. British History Online www.british-history.ac.uk/letters-papers-hen8/vol5/pp1-10
Lynda Telford in "Tudor Victims of the Reformation" points out the damage that could have been done to Mary and the family if Henry's wardship had been granted to someone who wanted to break up the estate and sell off the lands.
oh yeah we have Anne as a distant cousin too , and yeah we have some carey relations
Elizabeth Carey, Third to Distant Cousin 0.24% DNA shared, 1 segment Brittany Howard Third to Sixth Cousin,0.20% DNA shared, 2 segments oh i could be making this up i guess but i got this from here .......you.23andme.com/tools/relatives/#people?, i have all the other names i said too , i do not have Boleyn, i do have two other spellings of the name Bowling for one
The movie raced through the details so fast it wasn't that much fun to watch - like an edited highlights show. The TV series had more room to tell it's story. But at the end of the day it's just that - a story. History becomes conceptual plasticine in the hands of a novelist. Henry Cary seemed to have done well :-)
I became curious about Margaret Beaufort and her marriage to Edmund Tudor. She just seems awfully young to be married and apparently the marriage was even consumnated as she was only 13 when she gave birth to her son, the future king Henry VII. Was this very common at the time? To be married at 12 and having a child at 13? Do you know anything more about their marriage? Did they have feelings towards each other?
Early marriage was very common amongst the aristocracy, however early consummation was not usual and, though obviously Margaret Beaufort was menstruating, as she did get pregnant, famously she was too young to give birth without great trauma and she was never able to get pregnant again. Heaven only knows what damage happened to her gynologically but famously she was “ruined” for pregnancy and birth forever after. As to whether she loved her husband, I doubt it, I doubt you could love someone who forced himself on you to cause such trauma for ever after, and actually she appears to care more for the other Tudor brother more.
But Anne didn’t have a romantic relationship with Henry until after his relationship with Mary had already occurred. If anything Mary had more of a reason to be jealous that the king put her aside for her sister.
Anne went into it knowing that he was already involved with Mary before so Anne literally had no right whatsoever to be mad at Mary. Was Mary supposed to be a psychic and know her sister would marry the king someday?
Elizabeth Woodville obviously had no problems with Richard at one point after the princes disappeared and allowed her daughter to go to court, where she did attract attention as being in direct competition with Anne Neville who was ailing at this point just before she died. However whether that was Tudor propaganda is debatable , they wanted to paint Richard as a bad , bad man. . Elizabeth of York then went to live with Margaret Beaufort after gossip became ripe. Whether they had any sort of relationship beyond Uncle and niece is completely unknown, and unlikely as the Plantagenet royal family was quite close through most of Elizabeth’s childhood. That is other than drowning a George in a barrel of malmsey. Richard was always loyal to his brother and close when both were alive.
I've never read Ms. Gregory's books, but I'd have a hard time wrapping my mind around that one if I were to read it, even if it is a novel. It's not like people who lived 500 years ago were a different species. The both of them would likely have been repulsed by the idea of having "carnal relations" with each other- just like we would be. That is unless Richard was a pervert- but then we would have heard about that all of these years.
How I would love to have a big sniff of Majesty. I know that kitty would smell like heaven. It's all I can do to keep from kissing the screen. I wondered about the sisters and the son. Thank you.
Mary Boleyn pleaded with her sister Anne to help her, as their parents, if I remember right, had said you are on your own Mary. If I am wrong I stand up and say opps im wrong dangnappit.
Anne was really shitty to her sister hey ? she also took Henry snr , lol oh that is so my family honestly we do not learn , one of my sisters did that to another as well
oh , ok , maybe she was not so horrible then , hahaha , i still think she was not nice , what she let Henry do to Mary was revolting , just so her daughter could be queen
@@jitaamesuluma9730 Anne wasn't exactly kind to Mary, but Henry was the one with the power and he treated a lot worse than Anne did. Anne did actually try to make peace with her several times but Mary rebuffed them all.
I find Gregory's books very entertaining but they certainly aren't history. Anyone who does is ignoring the "fiction" part of "historical fiction". In a lot of ways, her books are very well researched as a background but as far as actual events, well, no. I do have one, I don't want to call it "complaint" because I certainly enjoy ALL your videos, but at times you can sound very "fan girl". You only ever rely on one scholar and tend to dispute or ignore others (i.e., Weir and Starkey). In your video about Margaret Beaufort, where you sort of sly allude to Gregory's portrayal of her, and how Beaufort was wrongly portrayed - even David Starkey called her "the mother-in-law from hell", she gave herself royal prerogatives she was not entitled to (like outlining royal protocols) and put herself on level with Elizabeth of York (wearing the same clothes, etc.). By ALL accounts, she was a very unpleasant woman. Margaret Beaufort certainly did something probably no other woman in history could've done (putting her child that has NO valid claim to royalty on the throne of England) but you did her a disservice by attempting to ONLY focus on the good she did while ignoring her personality that - by all accounts - was extremely unpleasant.
oh yeah we have Anne as a distant cousin too , and yeah we have some carey relations
Elizabeth Carey, Third to Distant Cousin 0.24% DNA shared, 1 segment Brittany Howard Third to Sixth Cousin,0.20% DNA shared, 2 segments oh i could be making this up i guess but i got this from here .......you.23andme.com/tools/relatives/#people?, i have all the other names i said too , i do not have Boleyn, i do have two other spellings of the name Bowling for one
oh yeah we have Anne as a distant cousin too , and yeah we have some carey relations
Elizabeth Carey, Third to Distant Cousin 0.24% DNA shared, 1 segment Brittany Howard Third to Sixth Cousin,0.20% DNA shared, 2 segments oh i could be making this up i guess but i got this from here .......you.23andme.com/tools/relatives/#people?, i have all the other names i said too , i do not have Boleyn, i do have two other spellings of the name Bowling for one
oh yeah we have Anne as a distant cousin too , and yeah we have some carey relations
Elizabeth Carey, Third to Distant Cousin 0.24% DNA shared, 1 segment Brittany Howard Third to Sixth Cousin,0.20% DNA shared, 2 segments oh i could be making this up i guess but i got this from here .......you.23andme.com/tools/relatives/#people?, i have all the other names i said too , i do not have Boleyn, i do have two other spellings of the name Bowling for one
The problem with historical fiction is that a lot of people read it and forget the "fiction" part of the genre. I love the genre myself, but I take everything I read with a very large grain of salt, as you have to with any form of fiction. Also, OMG, such an adorable and regal kitty...
I get so angry reading it because it Is fiction.
@@wcfheadshots240 I tend to do better when it's not about actual people or events, just set in a specific time period. The only exception is this weird book I read like 20 years ago in high school where Edgar Allen Poe teamed up with Davey Crocket to defeat Jack the Ripper. That was so weird and surreal that I couldn't get too mad about the inaccuracies. Although I did wonder why, with all those creative liberties taken, the author chose to leave in the bit about Poe banging his 13 year old cousin. It was a *WEIRD* book...
A grain of salt the size of a boulder, lol!
@@gigiw.7650 Yes. Most likely one of those boulders from the original Doctor Who or Star Trek. The ones that bounce off the heads of the actors as they flee an avalanche...
Kat K Damn that sounds like a trip. 🤣 Just today I was agreeing with someone that we found it cringey when people name drop or literally make Lovecraft a character in their cosmic horror stories.
Yeah, I much prefer it when a story is set in a period, rather than having historical figures as main characters.
I’m totally okay with people who write historical fiction changing events to be more interesting but not if it changes the character of the actual person in question. I think we sometimes forget that these are real people who lived just like us.
At least Bana’s a big guy -more Henry-ish than tiny Jonathan Rhys-Meyers.
I understand that Gregory writes fiction based on history but the way portrays the characters kind of annoys me. Especially how pits the women against each other.
Thank you claire for dismissing the false truths of anne adopting little henry carey
A very long time ago, I read a biography about Anne Boleyn and it was full of nasty inferences. This is a new one. I am always amazed at how people will paint an unflattering point of view just to increase gossip and sales (book, movie, television series). All the people we tune into your channel to hear about are long dead, so the only point I can see for misinformation is money. Thank you for your help in understanding, once again, people are motivated by greed, just as they were 400 years ago.
I learned long ago not to take my true history lessons from Hollywood and fiction novels. I did not like the film, "The Other Boleyn Girl" although I did think Eric Bana was gorgeous. ;) Thanks for clarifying what really happened in those relationships.
Who needs soap operas when you have history???? Good vlog thank you❤❤❤❤❤❤
I never see the reason to change history. The true facts are so interesting. Why change anything?
I love how you have the facts at your fingertips and make such clear sense of the many interconnected relationships of the Tudors. You are a treasure.
I have a small hissy fit when people try to tell me things about Anne, or Margaret Beaufort, that could only have come from PG's novels. I do appreciate that she has bought many people into studying the proper history, but the means do not justify the ends when they destroy a persons reputation on no evidence whatsoever. If only the dead could sue!
I love this series. It debunks so many myths that have colored the character of so many honest and interesting historical figures who I've always wanted to like better. Although she probably was bot perfect by any means, Anne Boleyne certainly didn't deserve her fate, and even less, her villainous reputation. Thank Claire Ridgeway.
LOL, me too! I feel your pain! Don't get me started on Margaret Beaufort... :D
Two videos in one day!! You’ve made my day!
It’s hard when a historical *FICTION* novel gets taken as historical *FACT*
We as readers need to remember that it’s a fictional book, with parts of the storyline coming completely from Ms Gregory’s imagination, not from a trusted contemporary historical resource.
Thank you for all of your hard work and I can’t wait to watch tomorrow’s video!
🇭🇲🦘 SO pleased that you put things straight in this video. I was aware of the truth, but so many believe the fictional works (only Based on fact) instead of realising that 'poetic licence' is rife.
As you said, with Henry Carey becoming a 'ward' of his aunt, Anne Boleyn, his prospects in future life were assured, and were with him later in life, working for his cousin Queen Elizabeth in so many important roles. There is no way that Elizabeth would have 'employed' him in this way (regardless of being cousins) unless he was very capable of doing the work. Important work at that! After all, Elizabeth was no fool and knew that she needed talented and well educated people around her, to help her rule. If Henry Carey had not been suitable, he would not have worked at court. Thank you Claire 👑👍
I did like the movie. However, it is difficult for me to watch as it strays so far from fact and lovely though Eric Banna is, he looks nothing like our King Henry! In the movie I did like Mary more, but that is just because I like that actress more. The end of the movie with Mary rushing to save and take up the baby Princess Elizabeth, is so far from fact that while it feels like a better ending, it is so sad because I know it is not true.
They just went with the Philipa Gregory it's a little fact & alot of fantasy... Just like the new mary queen of scots movie... Its a romantic notion to think both Mary & Elizabeth did meet (maybe they did in secret")
@@76jonboi - Philipa needs to stop writing and don't even get me started on her fascination with incest.
Two videos on my birthday! How wonderful!
Happy birthday!
Happy birthday!
Happy Birthday, Regina
Thank you so much!
Thank you, Claire. You have covered this but I still could listen all day!
I was very disappointed to learn that most of the fiction by Ms Gregory was untrue as initially I enjoyed the book. I've done a bit of writing myself and yes, it's all fiction so I don't know how difficult it is to write about historical fact and make it interesting without using artistic licence. However, I think it's a bit of a cop out when some people claim the term 'based on history' gives permission (for want of a better word) to twist it and work it purely for entertainment. It's history, it happened, please write it as it happened. I'd rather read true history that may be a tad boring (though not always) than read untrue versions in the name of entertainment. These were real people; don't play with their lives.
I can't help feeling sorry for that little group of boys including Henry Carey and the Norris boy. What a shock for them to have their secure world smashed. The Norris child lost a father, Henry Carey lost an aunt who, I suspect, had seemed an angelic dispenser of favors to him. And I am sure there were others. They were certainly given an education in the ways of courts, roughly but effectively.
I would love to see more videos discussing the discrepancies between popular movies and books and the real truth of Anne Boleyn’s life and times.
Amanda Contreras I second this! I’m currently re-reading The Boleyn King series, which is a total “what if” historical fiction series. And I’d love for Claire to discuss how certain things could’ve turned out if Anne really did have a son that lived.
I feel like a whole video series of all the inaccuracies of Philippa Gregory’s novels would be needed, as well.
Thank you, Claire. We can always count on you to set the record straight. 🙏🏻
Thank you for clarifying those misconceptions. So many people think it's real. The book: The Other....
LOVE the Fur Baby at the conclusion of the video!!! Awwwww!!!
Yay! Bonus video, thank you
I am very glad you shared your thoughts and historical insight on this matter, as well as the dates and particulars surrounding the affair and marriage of Mary Boleyn , as I was quite confused when discussing this particular issue with fellow Renaissance festival workers/patrons/Tudor enthusiast who have clearly relied on this book (which I still have not read lol) as their primary resource when they were adamantly declaring that Henry Carey was the son of King Henry . Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge and providing clarity for me on the matter, I will definitely be better prepared for this discussion the next time it pops up. You rock my socks off
Thank you for more fully explaining the distinction btwn adoption and wardship. At least the Philippa Gregory novels have attracted more interest to Tudor History, although the downside being the artistic license that leads to biases and opinions not founded on historical scholarship and facts. Thank you for interesting addit info re Mary and Little Henry to dispel the fiction portrayed in The Other Boleyn Girl. The beautiful figures of Eric Bana, Scarlet Johanson et al attract viewers, but I appreciate the historical citations and accuracy you strive to convey. Perhaps less glamorous, but vitally important to understanding these historical figures roles in Tudor Society. Thank you, Claire!
I also hated how they had Henry rape Anne, in the movie....no where historically was this ever a truth...,also clarie, do you think Mary was jealous or upset about Anne getting her position with Henry??
I’m American . Thought Mary Boleyn bore a son for Henry R viii ?
There's nothing to suggest that Mary harboured any ill feelings towards Anne at all.
@@honey-feeney9800 It's debated as there's no evidence. There's also not much known about Mary's relationship with the king.
I do think historical fiction writers have some responsibility to portray the characters fairly. It's all too easy to make a normal person into a villain.
Heck, even actor portrayal in movies can do the trick. Richard III in Shakespeare's play is very much written as the villain. Yet I dare you to watch The Hollow Crown version of the play and come away without at least a bit of sympathy for the guy. (And I double dare you to watch the WHOLE second series of The Hollow Crown without feeling sorry for him)
Hi Claire! I have a question for you from a long time... was the marriage between Elizabeth Howard and Thomas Boleyn a love marriage or an arrangement?
And for the video... I really hate Philippa Gregory's novel because it makes Anne look like a bad woman...
Authors should pay attention to what they write in their historical novels because there are a lot of people who actually believe to those novels...
So basically Anne was like a "foster mother" for the little Henry Carey?
Valentina, if you don't get an answer, check Claire's videos... I'm pretty sure she covered the subject of Ann's parents
It was an arrangement the Howard's were just getting back in favour with the new king & didn't have as much power as they came to have later on... Elizabeth was known to dislike her husband...
Anne took on Carey as a safety net incase the worse should happen the problem was he was not legitimate Henry viii son, so Anne failed in her duties
As for Philipa she writes the (What If) books delves into life then it's fantasy with as much historical accuracy as she can weave in, she only suggests this 'could' have happened as their are so many theories out about Anne But we know she didn't do anything to Warrent her death or the 5 men either
It appears to have been arranged and was a good match for both of them. Thomas was a rising star and the Howards had been down on their luck but were the most prominent family in England.
@@anneboleynfiles thank you so much Claire!
I totally enjoyed this... Thank you
"The Other Boleyn Girl" received something like Historical Romance of the Year title for 2002. Philippa Gregory's books read like romance novels which I think they are.
My personal preferences in historical fiction are books where you can actually learn history and real life in the time periods presented. I very much like Norah Lofts' works.
It is possible to present real life while adding supposed emotions of the historical figures. I would suppose Mary Boleyn was greatly relieved and comforted by her sister having wardship for the Carey son.
Excellent and informative!
Love these!!! Hi from the US!
Would like to picture Mary and Anne had a very close relationship and when mary had no money Anne and Henry helped her no way Anne was horrible
Thank you ❣️
I like film Anne of the 1000 days ❤🙂❤👍
What a shame that things get twisted for the sake of a good story!
I know you mentioned The Other Boleyn girl but I'm reading Alison Weir's The King's Obsession currently and this is a plotline in that too. But in Weir's novel Mary Carey is aghast that Anne is granted Henry Carey's wardship and Anne has to hasten to reassure her she isn't trying to take her son.
LOL. When your kitties are in the background, MY kitties become very interested in Tudor history!
Wardships were treated almost like stocks and bonds are today; held as investments, sold and traded back and forth. By taking on Henry Cary's wardship, Anne Boleyn was keeping control of him and his inheritance, such as it was, in the family and looking out for his interests.
You have a wonderful channel
I was stunned by the invented events/ sub story Phillipa Gregory writes in that book and the film adaption. Sure it's entertaining.. but personally I find it annoying. The stories of these figures is interesting enough without needing to be needlessly twisted from the truth. And as for The Tudors series.... visually stunning but my god did they take liberties! I think Hilary Mantel does a great job of recreating the time and characters without needlessly 'sexing up' everything at the expense of all historical accuracy.
I wonder about Mary Boleyn Carey's children's looks or appearance. It's sad but not unexpected there are so few portraits of the children during that time period.
Of course anyone who is played crusader kings 1 or 2 knows about the ward thing since that’s an important part of the game anne close to her niece and nephew that was actually an act of kindness sense Mary was broke I don’t know how Philippa Gregory Twisted that then again she portrayed anne as guilty and turned Elizabeth into Lollita with the Thomas Seymour thing I’m surprise she hasn’t been metoed yet .
Years ago I was listening to a historian on a podcast, who said he can't read historical novels in his area of expertise because he is concerned that it will cloud his judgement and he can't wait to retire (he was a professor) so he could (read historical novels).
That's kind of strange. I think the knowledge of actual historical events would spoil the fun of reading some historical novels, especially when an antagonist should really have been portrayed as a protagonist. Anne Boleyn was a human being and thus not a total saint, but she was also not close to the opposite.
I love all things Tudor history, so thoroughly enjoying your videos. What does the tattoo on your arm say?
Hi, Claire! I’ve been doing research on Anne Boleyn for a novel and your channel has been fantastic in helping me. My question about Anne Boleyn is when her birthday was? (Since theres so much controversy between historians about it.)
I have a family line that trace back to lady Jane grey and a barron. And a baroness
Oh wow. Thank you so much for that information. Cleared it up extremely well for me. I don't believe he was King Henry's son at all. The movie depicts Mary having King Henry's son but t hats all for entertainment purpose. Then again who knows 100 per cent he wasn't. It's all so fascinating. I live for this. Queen Anne I feel was very outspoken for that time. He loved it at first then in the end it was a part in her demise. She had gumption t hats for sure. The beginning of feminism??? No perhaps not. However if she were alive today I think she could run for presidency. . What a woman. One question. How were you chosen if you want to court or not? Did you have to be of high ranking? I ask this as one of his his closest minions was a butcher's son. Thank you. Great video
another good video ;) By the way. Adoption as we know today.Did that really exist in Tudor times ??
Since Henry Carey was Anne Boleyns ward .What happened with Henry Carey and with Henry Norris son when Anne Boleyn and henry Norris where executed. ?
Did many people raise their own children? I know it was very advantageous opportunity but I can't imagine my kids not being with me
They didn't tend to be taken into other household until they were a bit older, so the first few years would have been at home.
A lot of damage can be done to historical figures by reading historical novels, I like to read them, like many people, but unless you know the 'real' facts you can actually fall for the narrative being real. Philippa Gregory is an author who has taken all the inaccuracies of Anne's life and woven a interesting but totally inaccurate tale that many people may believe.
Agreed and painted Anne in a really bad light. The poor woman had awful accusations thrown at her in life, and these inaccuracies are still being told, for instance, her relationship with her brother. Sadly people believe what they read in novels.
Question: What does the tattoo on your left arm say?
I apologize if this question has been asked and answered before, but I'm quite curious what it says. It looks like a quote, could it perhaps be a Anne Boleyn one?
Actually, there is a video where Claire explains it :)
See th-cam.com/video/fKuEcLSNAEo/w-d-xo.html as I tell all in that video. Yes, it's Anne-related!
If he acknowledged Henry Fitzroy why wouldn't he acknowledge that one?
So I’m thinking from what you said that the Cary’s were royal also? My ancestral uncle was William Cary.
I hated the other boleyn girl film did not like how Anne boleyn was being portrayed I also hated the part in the movie where Henry v111 raped anne. I have watched the film once and won't be again. It would be nice if phillipa Gregory actually done a series true to history but I did love the series on the white queen. X
IF Henry Carey HAD been Henry VIII's son we would ALL have known about it, He would have shouted it from the roof tops so to speak!
THIS!!! Just like he did with the one illegitimate son he DID have! And when Edward VI died, you'd think that if Henry Carey was Henry VIII's son, *someone* would've pointed at him & said, "Well, he's illegitimate, but he IS a man, sooo...."
Also a 2003 tv movie, The Other Boleyn Girl, starring Natasha McIlhone and Jodhi May (as Anne) - the better adaptation, to me.
Me too!
Where do I get your books my daughter in law and my self we love the Tudor period
Fay Jones - Amazon 👍🏼 Available in Paperback, Kindle and Audiobook
Marissa Hammer thank you
Yes, they're all on Amazon as ebooks and paperbacks. A couple are available on Audible too.
Hi there ..
How many other prominent women - not including the Kings mother & not women who were married - were granted the wardship of children?
How was this decision making power given to a betrothed yet unmarried woman when that really convened all altitudes about women of that period? Married women - for the most part - were not really in a position to make decisions about their own children, particularly noble families, so I've always wondered why she was granted wardship of Henry.
What was it that Anne & Henry got? Wasn't wardship a way of acquiring wealth? Mary was but a poor widow, what did Henry bring to her? Was she really just a loving Aunt doing right by her bereft and widowed sister? I'd likd to think so ... but there's just this lingering doubt.
Are there contemporary sources available about the wardship?
It's something that I've always wanted to learn more about!
I think it was simply because Mary reached out and Anne was in a position to help. Anne was the boy's aunt too.
Wardship was usually a way of aquiring wealth, and in this case it meant that Anne did have custody of the lands of William Carey, Henry's father. As Josephine Wilkinson pointed out in her biography, lands passed to children not to widows, so Mary had no claim over them and Henrry was in his minority. So Anne could have the revenue from those lands while Henry was her ward.
The wardship could have been sold/granted to anyone, but by giving it to Anne, it meant that everything was kept in the family and Mary could be supported.
Had Anne lived, I'm sure she would have made a good marriage match for him. It appears that Anne may have been responsible for the match between Henry Fitzroy and Mary Howard.
Sorry, here's the reference for you:
"Grant to Anne Boleyn, one of the daughters of Viscount Rocheford, of the custody of the lands of William Carye, deceased, during the minority of Henry Carye, his son and heir, with the wardship and marriage of the said heir." 'Henry VIII: Miscellaneous, 1531', in Letters and Papers, Foreign and Domestic, Henry VIII, Volume 5, 1531-1532, ed. James Gairdner (London, 1880), pp. 1-10. British History Online www.british-history.ac.uk/letters-papers-hen8/vol5/pp1-10
Lynda Telford in "Tudor Victims of the Reformation" points out the damage that could have been done to Mary and the family if Henry's wardship had been granted to someone who wanted to break up the estate and sell off the lands.
oh yeah we have Anne as a distant cousin too , and yeah we have some carey relations
Elizabeth Carey, Third to Distant Cousin
0.24% DNA shared, 1 segment
Brittany Howard
Third to Sixth Cousin,0.20% DNA shared, 2 segments
oh i could be making this up i guess but i got this from here .......you.23andme.com/tools/relatives/#people?, i have all the other names i said too , i do not have Boleyn, i do have two other spellings of the name Bowling for one
I thought Ann also lived at Wickham Court castle? Why is this never mentioned?
Her great grandmother did (also named Anne Boleyn).
I think Catherine Knollys was Henry. She looks like Elizabeth I's sisters in her portrait. I don't know about Henry Carey.
really good
He is my ancestral cousin.
I like Facts & not fiction !
The movie raced through the details so fast it wasn't that much fun to watch - like an edited highlights show. The TV series had more room to tell it's story. But at the end of the day it's just that - a story. History becomes conceptual plasticine in the hands of a novelist.
Henry Cary seemed to have done well :-)
Why did she name her son Henry?
In honour of the king. Jane Grey was named in honour of Queen Jane Seymour and Katherine Willoughby in honour of Queen Katherine of Aragon
It was quite normal to name children after the monarch. Mary had had a brother called Henry too.
I became curious about Margaret Beaufort and her marriage to Edmund Tudor. She just seems awfully young to be married and apparently the marriage was even consumnated as she was only 13 when she gave birth to her son, the future king Henry VII.
Was this very common at the time? To be married at 12 and having a child at 13? Do you know anything more about their marriage? Did they have feelings towards each other?
Early marriage was very common amongst the aristocracy, however early consummation was not usual and, though obviously Margaret Beaufort was menstruating, as she did get pregnant, famously she was too young to give birth without great trauma and she was never able to get pregnant again. Heaven only knows what damage happened to her gynologically but famously she was “ruined” for pregnancy and birth forever after. As to whether she loved her husband, I doubt it, I doubt you could love someone who forced himself on you to cause such trauma for ever after, and actually she appears to care more for the other Tudor brother more.
❤❤❤
Is there any evidence of Anne being jealous of Mary having relations with Henry? I would be furious.
But Anne didn’t have a romantic relationship with Henry until after his relationship with Mary had already occurred. If anything Mary had more of a reason to be jealous that the king put her aside for her sister.
True but I would still be terribly angry that my sister slept with my husband before
Anne went into it knowing that he was already involved with Mary before so Anne literally had no right whatsoever to be mad at Mary. Was Mary supposed to be a psychic and know her sister would marry the king someday?
There's no evidence of Mary's feelings at all.
Had the boys father been Henry's son would you believe the plot...?
In White Princess Richard III and Elizabeth of York were lovers ?????????
Urgh! She was his niece - that's disgusting.
I know, when I see that my reaction is 🤮🤮🤮
Oh dear!
Elizabeth Woodville obviously had no problems with Richard at one point after the princes disappeared and allowed her daughter to go to court, where she did attract attention as being in direct competition with Anne Neville who was ailing at this point just before she died. However whether that was Tudor propaganda is debatable , they wanted to paint Richard as a bad , bad man. . Elizabeth of York then went to live with Margaret Beaufort after gossip became ripe. Whether they had any sort of relationship beyond Uncle and niece is completely unknown, and unlikely as the Plantagenet royal family was quite close through most of Elizabeth’s childhood. That is other than drowning a George in a barrel of malmsey. Richard was always loyal to his brother and close when both were alive.
I've never read Ms. Gregory's books, but I'd have a hard time wrapping my mind around that one if I were to read it, even if it is a novel. It's not like people who lived 500 years ago were a different species. The both of them would likely have been repulsed by the idea of having "carnal relations" with each other- just like we would be. That is unless Richard was a pervert- but then we would have heard about that all of these years.
How I would love to have a big sniff of Majesty. I know that kitty would smell like heaven. It's all I can do to keep from kissing the screen.
I wondered about the sisters and the son. Thank you.
She does smell lovely!
Did Anne add Catherine Carey as a maid to her household at the same time she made Henry her ward.
Mary Boleyn pleaded with her sister Anne to help her, as their parents, if I remember right, had said you are on your own Mary. If I am wrong I stand up and say opps im wrong dangnappit.
That was after her second marriage. She was cut off because she married in secret and without her family and the Crown's permission.
@@anneboleynfiles yep. i forgot when it was. Main thing it was when Anne had a way a stand to help.
Anne was really shitty to her sister hey ? she also took Henry snr , lol oh that is so my family honestly we do not learn , one of my sisters did that to another as well
oh , ok , maybe she was not so horrible then , hahaha , i still think she was not nice , what she let Henry do to Mary was revolting , just so her daughter could be queen
@@jitaamesuluma9730 Anne wasn't exactly kind to Mary, but Henry was the one with the power and he treated a lot worse than Anne did. Anne did actually try to make peace with her several times but Mary rebuffed them all.
💖👑👑💖xx
I find Gregory's books very entertaining but they certainly aren't history. Anyone who does is ignoring the "fiction" part of "historical fiction". In a lot of ways, her books are very well researched as a background but as far as actual events, well, no. I do have one, I don't want to call it "complaint" because I certainly enjoy ALL your videos, but at times you can sound very "fan girl". You only ever rely on one scholar and tend to dispute or ignore others (i.e., Weir and Starkey). In your video about Margaret Beaufort, where you sort of sly allude to Gregory's portrayal of her, and how Beaufort was wrongly portrayed - even David Starkey called her "the mother-in-law from hell", she gave herself royal prerogatives she was not entitled to (like outlining royal protocols) and put herself on level with Elizabeth of York (wearing the same clothes, etc.). By ALL accounts, she was a very unpleasant woman. Margaret Beaufort certainly did something probably no other woman in history could've done (putting her child that has NO valid claim to royalty on the throne of England) but you did her a disservice by attempting to ONLY focus on the good she did while ignoring her personality that - by all accounts - was extremely unpleasant.
oh yeah we have Anne as a distant cousin too , and yeah we have some carey relations
Elizabeth Carey, Third to Distant Cousin
0.24% DNA shared, 1 segment
Brittany Howard
Third to Sixth Cousin,0.20% DNA shared, 2 segments
oh i could be making this up i guess but i got this from here .......you.23andme.com/tools/relatives/#people?, i have all the other names i said too , i do not have Boleyn, i do have two other spellings of the name Bowling for one
oh yeah we have Anne as a distant cousin too , and yeah we have some carey relations
Elizabeth Carey, Third to Distant Cousin
0.24% DNA shared, 1 segment
Brittany Howard
Third to Sixth Cousin,0.20% DNA shared, 2 segments
oh i could be making this up i guess but i got this from here .......you.23andme.com/tools/relatives/#people?, i have all the other names i said too , i do not have Boleyn, i do have two other spellings of the name Bowling for one
oh yeah we have Anne as a distant cousin too , and yeah we have some carey relations
Elizabeth Carey, Third to Distant Cousin
0.24% DNA shared, 1 segment
Brittany Howard
Third to Sixth Cousin,0.20% DNA shared, 2 segments
oh i could be making this up i guess but i got this from here .......you.23andme.com/tools/relatives/#people?, i have all the other names i said too , i do not have Boleyn, i do have two other spellings of the name Bowling for one
i also have relations called Ridgeway mind you , hahahahahahahaha