If you enjoyed this video, please consider supporting the channel on Patreon: www.patreon.com/Taitset For detailed information on the current Melbourne fleet, have a look here: vicsig.net/suburban/?page=suburban As mentioned in the video, there are several sub-types of car I didn't mention for the sake of simplicity - there's one example I expect people will ask about: There was a type of Tait car called a G car - these were functionally a trailer, but were fitted with a secondary lighting system powered by gas, which allowed them to be used as locomotive hauled cars on country trains during holiday periods, which were historically busier for the country lines than the suburbs. When in suburban use, the G cars were usually the second trailer in the Unit, so a typical 7 car set was actually M-T-T-M-G-T-M. There is a G car preserved in operational condition, 98G at the Mornington Tourist Railway, where it operates in a consist of country cars, usually hauled by steam loco K163.
There are two kinds of train vandals. Those who love trains and want them to be more colourful. And those whom don't value what they have and are only out to destroy. Unfortunately the later is far more common.
As someone who spent most of my life living in Belgrave, I love the x'trapolis acceleration sound from the traction motors. Now that I use the v/line trains more prominently, living in Geelong and all, it feels weird not to hear them under acceleration.
They're unfortunately not good for my sensory issues, especially the air compressor, so once I figured out it was an M car thing I started memorising platform layouts at my usual stops to stand in the right spots to board a T. Might as well put that autism to use hey
@@evermorestationthat’s a great idea :) honestly awesome I have autism too but I don’t live in Melbourne so thankfully it’s mostly quiet in terms of public transport where I live
Another reason to use 3 car sets for the Alamein Shuttle is because there is no room for a safe path next to the Camberwell siding, which is needed for drivers to change ends on a pair of 3 car sets.
@@qjtvaddict Only unfortunate thing is you miss out on Alamein trains to Camberwell, though the 70 tram is very close and could be used as the encouraged connection. Still makes the connection to Belgrave/Lilydale harder due to moving to East Camberwell
I don't live in Melbourne. I don't plan on visiting. I don't even live close enough to consider doing so. But yet for some reason... I'm obsessed with your videos!
"Hey mum, I think the next train is gonna be that flat faced one with the bumpy carriages" I remember when we got to the hallam road level crossing, I would also always pray it would be the "Bombardier". I didn't know they were called Vlocity's as a kid.
I reckon I’ve seen that same pigeon at Newport waiting for 726M to show up 😜 Like others have said, this level of detailed and well presented nerdery is what TH-cam needs more of! The animations and graphics of the trains in this video is pure class👌(Particularly the X’trap wiring diagram 😂) Looking forward to the Patreon only on how you made this video!
Fun fact in Sydney. We’re still ordering 4 and 6 car sets for the New Intercity Fleet (D Sets). Will be fun to see them form 10 car sets, as seeing the end of the train on a curve is quite pleasing.
I tell ya, man, you've got the most charismatic, humourous, and clear delivery of anybody making railway content (not even specific to Victoria / Australia - just *anywhere*). Top stuff, as always.
I have no idea why I’m this interested in Melbourne’s railways, I’m from near Birmingham in England but I’ve been watching you for years and too see content this nerdy just makes me happy :)
Sydney sider here, great video! Been here for a while, I never knew I would be so interested in a rail system outside of ours. Hope a Sydney - Melbourne High speed rail eventually gets built!
This kind of content is exactly my thing, thanks Martin! I think I really started to become aware of the subtle differences when I was about 8, so 1979-80. Those days, exactly as you said, I'd be on the platform, trying to guess what coloured train would come along. It was always fun sitting in the motor cars, particularly on the Taits, hence my practice on Steamrail Tait runs. It wasn't till the Hitachis that there was a decent sized window into the guard's cab, with the chance of looking forward, usually at the crack left by the lowered blind! And, being the nerd, I may have had a good memory for numbers and a desire to 'collect them all'! A question which could solve a mystery; in the early 90s, when I went to work by train, I'd occasionally ride a Comeng M car, which had quite different traction motor sounds. I likened it to a stepping-up sci-fi 'whoop', and never learned what they were. And, being the new adult in the workforce, I was too distracted to remember the numbers of the Comeng spaceships! Love the graphics and Alexander's models. I did giggle at the X'Trap 'wiring diagram', someone needs to unloop the looped cable otherwise it could kink and all the electricity would build up then blast out when the cable is straightened out! Thanks so much for this vid, too.
There were some Comeng M cars fitted with chopper control, which made a sort of buzzing sound like a Z3 class tram: th-cam.com/video/VdhqQw0r52Q/w-d-xo.html If it's not that, then I'm not sure!
To provide a NZ example. Auckland operates 3 car sets which operate either together as a six car train or separately. The 3 cars are arranged as: M-T-M in this practice... but one of the two motor cars has a pantograph and the other doesn’t. The middle trailer is where the wheelchair space is and it is also lower floor for direct level boarding. In the future we'll be running 9-car trains made up of three units. Wellington conversely uses trains that are 2-cars. M-D in Melbourne parlance. The D cars having a lower floor height for accessibility. These are either operated separately or arranged into 4-6-8 car trains.
I subscribed at around the 13:10 mark, and I would like to formally request the delivery of a blueberry muffin. I don't even like blueberry, but why not.
As a train enthusiast who used to live in Melbourne and now spends her days logging all the Melbourne train sets I see on TH-cam into spreadsheets, I really appreciated the extra explanations. Makes me want to go back and ride in an M car :-)
The Sydney double deck trains are a beautiful design. The best double deck design I have experienced anywhere in the world. They perfectly solve the entry/exit, stairs and ends at platform level for wheeled passengers. One thing that is particularly noticeable about them, besides the layout and reversible seats, is how quiet they are. They are almost dead silent both internally and externally. I haven't tried the new Sydney Metro trains so don't know if they have maintained the quietness.
Hi Martin, love the content. Given its mention in this video, I'd be really interested in knowing more about Melbourne's double decker train experience. I remember riding them back in the day and thinking they were great, but they vanished without a trace.
The Taits had the best traction motor sound, as a guard on the sparks in the early eighties, i rode in Taits, hitachis, and Comengs. Great video, thanks.
Its uncommon to have 6 car suburban trains split up on a regular basis, but Vlocity trains do it very frequently. I regularly take the 8:01am from Wendouree, being an up Ararat service it operates as 3 cars and is shown on the information displays at terminating at Ballarat. This is because it inches into Ballarat to combine with another 3 car service from Maryborough. After around 15 minutes it completes the service to Southern Cross as 6 cars.
I always love watching your videos, the info is always interesting, the scripts are written well, and you sound actually enthusiastic. I definitely learnt some interesting things from this video! keep up the fantastic work mate.
My great grandfather would be incredibly proud of how far railway technology has come. After serving in World War 2 he returned to Melbourne and worked in the electrical substations for the railways. He would be absolutely amazed by the advancements that have been made, and the impact his work has had on the industry. His contributions to the railway system have paved the way for the modern and efficient transportation we enjoy today.
RIP the 4D. And RIP the dream to have unified fleets between Sydney and Melbourne. How good would that have been? Sydney's train layouts are really advanced by world standards, with seating capacity of two Airbus A380 planes each. Imagine if the T-set Tangara was followed by the M-set Millenium and the A and B-set Waratah series 1 and 2. The Waratah in particular has a kicker of an engine in it, and really takes off from the station. And SO incredibly smooth on the suspension. Plus when the train is empty, it's so quiet you can hear a quiet voice from the opposite end of the saloon. Plus there's none of that gimmicky "tucking in" around the curved doors. Some of the Melbourne sets do that, and some of them don't. What gives? Surely the kinetic envelope and loading gauge weren't different when the 1990s or 2000s ordered new trains?
Excellent production! I must admit I was waiting for you to explain why the Siemens trains are so damn quiet! I rarely go to Melbourne but I have noticed that you can hear a pin drop on the Siemens!
another banger, thanks Taitset. i've been travelling on Melbourne Metropolitan trains my whole life and your videos answer everything I have ever wondered about why our trains are like that. I used to travel on the Alamein line for school and often ended up on 3 car sets if I traveled off of peak. I missed the train a few times because I was waiting and the wrong end of the platform at Riversdale and didn't make it to the other end in time! I also experienced the same platform changeover at Camberwell a lot, it's definitely convenient
The Comeng sounds remind me so much of my childhood on the Class 455. Those sets often used old Southern Railway equipment underneath and the DC motors sounded awesome. Sadly they've been either withdrawn or re-tractioned with new euipment (that exploded a couple of times). I hope the Comeng sets have a similar sort of "warm smell" from DC traction too. Also on the wheelchair note, I would love to hear about wheelchair access. I'm currently putting together a series of articles about level boarding in the UK and would love to know about how it's done overseas.
I rode on a 455 in the UK and thought it sounded a lot like a Comeng! If you'd like some detailed info on wheelchair use/level boarding in Melbourne, send me an email (via the contact button on my channel page) and I can tell you all about it!
Good insights and a lot of it matches the state of play in Auckland. We run permanently coupled three-car CAF sets that are quite similar to your Siemens units. Currently a mix of single and double sets to cover demand while minimising mileage on the tracks and rolling stock. We do a lot of coupling and uncoupling either side of peak period to delay the big 1/3-life rebuild as there's currently nowhere to do that work. It's a big fault risk to couple so many times a day, so I look forward to getting back to patronage that demands full fleet utilisation. As per Melbourne, our maintenance facility can only cope with 3-car sets. We're at 72 sets now with 23 more starting to arrive. Once the fleet exceeds 100, we may see six-car units on the menu as the Wiri depot will be at capacity and a new depot capable of handling a new six or even nine-car unit would be an option.
Classification in Auckland - Units are AM (Auckland Metro) plus three digits. All three cars have the same digits because they're permanently coupled, but each car has letters describing it's type. The nominal "front" is the AMP (pantograph) which is a driving motor car with pantograph. In the middle is the low-floor, unpowered AMT (trailer). Last is the driving motor (AMA) Auxiliary car with no pantograph. Other than the pantograph and main transformer, they're pretty much symmetrical and operate identically from either end. The only difference you'd notice in the AMP-car is the sound of the main circuit breaker closing after traversing a neutral section.
Just to add, Sydney has some odd history too. The silver sets were originally operated as 2, 4 or 6 car sets. Eventually, they were all converted to be operated as 4 car sets, and many of the cabs were removed. The ones that are left now operate as 8 car sets (2 semi permanently coupled 4 car sets), and on some of them, there are 8 cabs (some aren't really cabs now, and are just extended vestibule space) because of those days
Good video as always, although I'm gonna be a pedant and point out that the Tangaras were not the first to use non-control motors. The prefix actually dates back to 1926 with the standard motor cars, as around a dozen entered service without their cabs installed and were used in non divisible sets (e.g. C-T-T-N-N-T-T-C, basically the inverse of a modern waratah). they did install the cabs later in 1928 when funding was available though, and then the N prefix sat un-used until the Tangaras.
Interesting, thanks! I actually had a feeling I'd seen a picture of a single deck N car, but then I did a quick search and didn't find anything, and assumed I was wrong. Good to know I wasn't going crazy. :)
@@Taitset I'm surprised you found a photo at all if I'm honest! they were only a thing for a very short period of time, and at a time when photography was rare.
Actually so helpful. That high pitched whine in the Comeng trains (our exclusive train on the Craigieburn Line) can definitely get really, really annoying and piercing, especially for a Craigieburn to Flinders St trip.
Thanks for letting me know what drove me insane with its buzzing noise on the Comeng trains lol. I always pick the M car at the very end of the train because its doors open right in front of the staircase exiting my home station.
Here in Adelaide the only train with a trailer carriage is the 4000 Class. The 3000 Class are railcars (like the Sprinter) and I believe the 3100 Class is a 2 carriage DMU.
After watching this video, it makes me want to go in a specific carriage now. The occasional trips on the Willie line does to me sound... different inside. It must be the motor. Thanks for a very different subject on our lines
A well-timed upload, seeing as I was just in Melbourne. Regarding the driving trailer in the middle of the Tait EMU, I thought that was confusing, especially after seeing the preserved set on the Sunbury Line last weekend. My favourite Melbourne EMU is easily the Comeng. That's because I generally prefer older trains to new ones, and the Comeng's traction motor sound is great. I guess the one thing I don't like or understand about these units is the fact that you have to pull the doors open rather than pressing a button. In any case, by favourite Comeng coach is 352M, and my second favourite Melbourne EMU is the refurbished Harris.
amazing video, but kinda hoped for more detail on the HCMT internal layout, i still haven't figured out how to measure where to stand on the platform to get on with my heavy bike comfortably - is it the fire door cars? or the inverse of the fire door cars?
Yeah they haven't really made it obvious enough. There are some rectangular white stickers on the sides which I think show where the extra space is, otherwise you can get on at the back and use the rear wheelchair space.
My local area in the UK, on the Snow Hill Lines near Birmingham, has an interesting make-up of trains. Usually it's like this: TOC (train operating company): West Midlands Railway Class: 172 DMU, of the Turbostar family. Introduced in 2010/11 to replace the Class 150 DMUs built back in the 80s. There are four sub-classes: 172/0: 2 coaches, non-gangway ends, formerly with London Overground. 8 built 172/1: 2 coaches, non-gangway ends, formerly with Chiltern Railways. Pretty much the same as the 172/0s. 4 built. 172/2: 2 coaches, gangway ends. Have always been in the Birmingham area with London Midland and stayed as it became West Midlands Railway. 12 built. 172/3: 3 coaches, gangway ends, same history as with the 172/2s. 15 built. So on the Snow Hill Lines we get trains of two, three, four, five or six coaches, and now that the 172/0s and 172/1s have been cascaded to WMR, there's all manner of possible combinations. Note: the six coach trains are only made using two 3-car sets rather than 3 two-car sets. Thing is, if your train is made up of a 172/2 and or a 172/3 unit together you can walk between the individual trains thanks to the gangway ends, but you can't do that if you have a 172/0 or a 172/1. As a result, putting say a 172/1 and a 172/3 together creates a bit of an odd look, and you can't walk between the trains! As for the classifications of the individual coaches, they use a lot of letters! DMOS: Drivers's cab, Motor car, Open saloon, Standard class MOS: Motor car, Open saloon, Standard class DMSOLW: Drivers's cab, Motor car, Open saloon, Standard class, Lavatory, Wheelchair accommodation They have a great sound as well; here's a clip from way back in 2012 of a pair of units (a 172/2 and a 172/3) leaving Stourbridge Junction: www.yotubue.com/watch=JecAbHc6HAU And for comparison in looks, here's an ex-Chiltern Railways 172/1 leaving Worcester Foregate Street in 2021: www.youtube.com/watch=XKC7TAcudSs We used to get Class 170 Turbostar units as well (also with various sub-classes), they looked like the 172/0/1s and usually worked the Bromsgrove line though to Birmingham New Street, and sometimes a 170 would be coupled up to a Class 153 Sprinter, a single car train! A very strange formation! Nowadays, they've been replaced by the Class 196. Another word I've heard used for a consist, though I think it might only apply to steam trains nowadays, is rake.
In the video, you should have mentioned that the motor alternators are different depending on the refurbished Comeng set. The Alstom refurbished Comeng trains have the high pitch whine, while the EDI refurbished Comeng trains have a nice sounding rumble.
Great video! This is exactly the type of nerdery I want and expect from this channel, so please keep it coming. It does bother me that no clear distinction is made between different "classes"/"generations" (realising as I write this that I don't even know what the proper terminology here is) of suburban train in the Victorian numbering scheme. I really feel like you should be able to tell from a unit's serial number whether it's, say, a Comeng or a Siemens without having to know the range of numbers for each type of rolling stock. Then again, keeping track of rolling stock type designations is probably at least as esoteric as being able to tell them apart visually, so this is probably just one of those things (like signalling systems) where the system you learn first is the one that makes sense to you and everything else seems insane.
Yeah it's definitely a good point! We usually just say 'type' of train, for some reason Melbourne hasn't traditionally used the term 'class' for EMU/DMUs. With a bit of exposure to the system, it's pretty easy to remember the number ranges, especially as you only really only have to remember what each one starts at - ie first Comeng is 301M, first Siemens is 701M, so anything in-between is a Comeng. There was actually an exception to this, the classification for Swingdoor and Tait trains was different (and more complicated) when they were first built, with extra letters describing passenger class, and guard's compartment (all cabs). In this system there was also a letter 'P' included for Tait cars, to separate them from Swingdoor cars. First class was A, Second B, Guard C, so an ACPM was a first class Tait motor, but an ACM would be a first class Swingdoor motor. They changed to the current system in 1921, but the A/B/C codes continued to be used for country cars.
Great video!! One thing to mention at Camberwell is in some cases off peak that platform 2 is a dedicated alamein detraining platform. All down trains use the points and use platform 3 so it makes it easier to interchange to alamein I suppose rather than having to cross the bridge. Naturally its a completely different arrangement during peak hour with all lines going to the city and many trains speeding through camberwell! Open to correction ofc
Fantastic video!! Really really informative, and I loved every moment of it! Was there any specific reason the HCMTs were ordered as 7-car sets, rather than 6-car sets for interoperability with all the other rollingstock? (The odd number of cars feels weird for my Sydney brain lol.) I assume Metro just really wanted the additional capacity of a 7th carriage?
Good question, they're actually only slightly longer than the existing 6 car sets (the actual cars are shorter). The most likely thing I can think of is that they wanted to make the most use possible of the existing City Loop platforms, which would obviously be very hard to extend. A 7 car HCMT fills the Loop platforms completely, with the noses hanging off slightly into the tunnel.
Hello! As alluded to in the video, the HCMTs are designed to ultimately run as a 10-car set at around 225m (give or take). The length of the carriages at 7 cars is, as alluded to, slightly longer than the rest of the fleet, but generally long enough to fit in the platforms, even in the MURL where some signals had to be repositioned so the driver could see them when stationary. This is another reason the CFD loop runs anti clockwise all the time. Your summation about two more M cars and one more T car is correct. The numbering of the HCMTs is interesting and almost helps identify the carriage as well as the fleet - the first digit shows the type of train (if it wasn’t already obvious); the second shows which carriage it is (with the 99 series always facing Dandenong when the Metro Tunnel opens); and the last two showing which specific set it is. So, carriage 9954 is a HCMT, Driving Trailer (or TC) at the Dandenong end (when the tunnel opens), in set 54. (:
HCMTs will only run on the soon to be connected via the metro tunnel, Sunbury and Dandenong (Pakenham/Cranbourne) lines, which will become the longest continuous line, a cross town one when the tunnel opens next year. Power upgrades are part of this, the trains can run on other lines, and do for testing, easier to test them and get the odometer upto the required number on quieter lines. But they draw more power than older trains, so multiple wouldn't be able to run in the same power blocks on most of the network. There's plans for a number of platforms to be extended and run 10 car sets in the future along this line for extra capacity.
Thanks! I used to ride the red rattlers back in the day (Sandringham line). Now I'm sitting in Dandenong, watching this and the HCMTs pass while I wait for a sensible train (purple and noisy)
Another great video and I am definitely always here for the nerdy stuff you put out! If the HCMT car designations are a headache to you, check out some of the codes for passenger coaches (or goods wagons) in Europe according to the UIC. They are insanely specific!
Another well crafted video, Martin. The various characteristics of Melbourne's trains are well explained for the novice enthusiast and general enquirer and I really found it difficult to detect any significant error. Nice to see the coverage of 3 car Comeng sets on Jordanville bank (just down the road from me). Loved the clip of the model double ended Tait on Alex's garden railway. Keep up the good work.🙂🙂🙂
Surprised about the 4 pantographs up on a single train. It is extremely rare in Switzerland unless the train is powered by locomotives, and then there are speed restrictions depending on the distance and number of pantographs, as they can damage the catenary and anyway the current can be collected by a single panto and delivered to each motor. And even without the potential damage, 4 pantographs are going to cause a lot more wear and tear on the copper. Also, does Victoria use UIC numbering on the sides of the trains? Makes the identification of trains so much easier
The need for more pantographs may relate to our fairly low voltage of 1500v dc. Having said that, X'trapolis have just 2 pantographs for the 6 car set. UIC numbers are a eruopean thing, they wouldn't make much sense here!
@@Taitset we use 15kV, but it is converted to 1760 by the internal converters for the use by the motors, and the heating/cooling/other carriage systems are fed at 1500, so I guess that your local sets save a lot on weight by not needing heavy transformers but ultimately run at about the same voltage, just how this affects the need for more pantographs I don't know. I can only think that you'd need more wiring to obtain the same intensity at the point of entry, but I'm not an electrical engenieer! Someone else may be better able to answer the question. Thanks for the videos by the the way, forgot to mention how much I enjoy learning about Victoria's rail system thanks to you!
Fantastic video as always, thank you Martin! Quick question about that Comeng 3-car set crossing Heyington Rail Bridge at 9:25 . Was that video taken from the Yarra Boulevard? If so, I notice the pedestrian walkway attached to the western side of the bridge is missing! Do you know when it was added? Once again, great work! Always makes my day when I see a new Taitset video has been posted. 😊
Glad you enjoyed it! That video was taken in 2006 from the south side of the river, of a down train, so the pedestrian bridge would be on the other side. Although I'm not sure if it dis exist at that time!
@@Taitset Oh interesting, didn’t realise there was a spot to stand and watch, film, and photograph trains on that side of the river! Thanks for the clarification Love the RVB horn too! Sad that they’re no more
I was hoping you'd also discuss V/Line consists (loco-hauled sets, DMUs, railcars etc). Do you think you could maybe do that as a part 2 to this video please?
This is excellent, and if at some point you'd like to do a similar video on Sydney's rolling stock I'd love that! Edit: A more in depth video on Sydney's rolling stock, if depth is possible. And I'd like to hear about the interesting 2 and 3 letter systems on the intercity trains.
Great video, it's a pity sparks don't go to Warragul any more, I use to live in Bunyip and catch the early morning train to Pakenham . Sometimes I would catch the train to Warragul and the driver would open it right up , Hitachi's sounded awesome flat out between Drouin and Warragul and it's something we'll never experience again.
Great video! The explanation of noises in carriages was interesting, but didn't cover the unique sound of the HCMTs. When first moving off they have a distinctive traction motor sound, then after a few seconds it dramatically changes to a higher pitch- almost like a car changing down gears for more acceleration. I'm curious what this actually is as I'm sure electric trains don't have gears.
Hi Martin, great video as always. You might want to look into the new TMF being built at Kananook to see if it can fit a 6 car set. My understanding is the X'trap 2.0 is destined for the Frankston line so I wouldn't be surprised if it does.
Thankyou! I would imagine all new maintenance facilities will be able to fit at least six cars from now on, they can already do it at Craigieburn which I expect will be the main X2polis depot.
Great Video, but just a very slight nerdy thing that I noticed as an Alamein Line Commuter. At 10:56, you explained that the Shuttle arrives at Platform 1, but this is mostly incorrect. It usually arrives at Platform 2 so there is no conflict between the Shuttle Train and the City Bound Train from Belgrave/Lilydale that uses Platform 1 (they're usually only scheduled 2 or so minutes apart). It's usually only if there isn't a Flinders Street Train scheduled directly after that Platform 1 is used for the Alamein Shuttle, and even when this is the case, the Shuttle usually just turns around in Platform 1 and heads straight back. I know this doesn't matter at all, but I just had to lol.
That's very interesting, never seen it done like that when I've been there! Running into 2 is still a conflict with the other train as it has to cross its path to get there. But certainly makes sense to use 2 where possible.
@@Taitset There might be a conflict while both trains are arriving, yes. But once the Alamein Train arrives on Platform 2, the city bound train can just jump past it on Platform 1 without having to wait for it to shunt out. Sometimes both trains leave the station simultaneously, running parallel until the Shuttle Train stops in the siding.
I was always told the blocks were on the eastern end of the trains and units were on the western end...interesting. Also, Comengs had the ability to run with the rear two carriages locked-out and lights off, forcing passengers to all use the first carriage. This was used in very late night runs once upon a time.
I was in Brisbane recently and I noticed the wheelchair boardings are different for the NGRs and the other rollingstock due to the use of both guards and station staff.
Fantastic nerdy info. I was always fascinated will the front door on the Hitachi driver's cabins and wondered if they were ever used. I do have to ask; Are the Comeng motors the last to use DC motors and are the latter ones 3 phase running off inverters, and will that mean that one day, they will finally run AC on the overhead supply?
I believe the Siemens/X'traps/HCMT do have AC traction motors, I don't know much detail beyond that though! Some of the modern overhead looks like it's designed to allow future conversion to 25kv AC, but I don't think there's any real plan to do it any time soon.
@@Taitset Until the various line groups are split up more, converting to 25kV AC would be a nightmare. If and when each line group is isolated properly with the City Loop reconfiguration (and maybe the Metro 2 tunnel) it might be feasible to swap in new equipment fairly rapidly. Until then, forget about it (apart from the SRL).
Another factor in train consists is defective motors. There is a certain percentage of powered carriages versus trailers required to get up hills. With the MTM-MTM set up a driver can 'cut-out' defective motors and the train can stay in service because there are still three powered carriages to haul three non-powered carriages. With the MTTM-TTM set up of the 'read and blue' trains if defective motors had to be cut out then there would be only two powered carriages hauling five non-powered carriages. Defective motors is a common thing, although strictly speaking it is often not actually the motors that are dodgy, but a fault somewhere in the control system. Either way it means those motors can't be used. Trains could and would stay in service for 3-4 weeks with dodgy motors cut-out until they get around to fixing them. Drivers don't like trains with motors cut out because, obviously, they are slower.
Actually I’ve got a question, how come with most M-T-M sets the numbers of the trailer cars seemingly go way higher than motor cars despite being outnumbered 2-1?
Each car type (and each train type) is within its own number range, so being a higher number doesn't mean there are more of them, it just means they started from a higher number. Possibly they made all the T cars in 4 digit ranges to make them more obviously separate.
Whenever at a level crossing we'd always play a game of "guess what direction the train is coming from", somehow my dad would always know, we never won the game!
Ahoy! The fire door part was interesting for me. Are the fire doors only on earlier sets of HCMT’s? Most ones I ride are fully walk through but I recall a few in the early days of their rollout having these doors throughout the train. I actually thought they were quite odd!
Speaking of fun train noises, when I was living in Yokohama I used to ride the Keikyu Line and the sound of the N1000 Series when they accelerate is really nice. They're nicknamed "Do-re-mi-fa Inverters." Worth checking out. I think they retired them a couple of years ago though.
aside from cases like the Alamein line, is there ever an advantage to running shorter trains in off-peak on train networks in general, or is it a similar thing to the argument for running smaller buses in off peak periods (Canberra ditched their Midi Buses for a reason!)
In the past it was considered important because it reduced mileage on rollingstock thereby allowing less frequent maintenance, and also used less electricity. But these days they prefer to just wear those costs for the sake of convenience.
@@Taitset I’d be happy with three car sets off-peak if it meant more frequent trains, every 30 minutes on the Upfield line is painful! Given that the main expense is the driver, I don’t think it would help sadly. It does make a difference with trams though because multiple short trams (eg. A-Class) can be at a tram stop together but long trams (eg. E-Class) need an entire stop to themselves. The 96 trams often get backed up, the one in front slowed down by large numbers of passengers getting on and off, and the second tram unable to get to the stop. Always fun on the old St Kilda line, sitting next to the remains of the longer train platform while your tram is unable to stop at the now shorter platform.
Another great video Martin - really well explained plus enjoyed the Sydney comparison too! I know you live in Melbourne but next trip to Sydney a similar video would be great including V sets, the new NIFs and Metro trains could be included - thanks again TD 👍✅😁
Can I have my free blueberry muffin? Please and thanks! (Sidenote: I would've loved to see a second distraction with Brisbane as the focus. We have a lot of weird stuff here that you would love to see. If you end up visiting one day, let me know!) Great video as usual.
Love your videos Martin - thank you. One question re the config of internal seating. In Mel the seats are facing to/from the direction of travel (except for the wheelchair areas). In Asia many countries have bench seating on each side of the carriage leaving a large open space in the middle. Is this a capacity thing or something else? Just curious. Cheers.
Longitudinal seating is common on high capacity high frequency metro systems, because it allows more space for people to stand. Despite the branding, Melbourne's network is a main line suburban system, not a proper 'metro.'
All our trains already have level boarding in places where gap fillers have been fitted to platforms. I think they can only be fitted to straight platforms though, so it's going to be inconsistent for the foreseeable future.
If you enjoyed this video, please consider supporting the channel on Patreon: www.patreon.com/Taitset
For detailed information on the current Melbourne fleet, have a look here: vicsig.net/suburban/?page=suburban
As mentioned in the video, there are several sub-types of car I didn't mention for the sake of simplicity - there's one example I expect people will ask about: There was a type of Tait car called a G car - these were functionally a trailer, but were fitted with a secondary lighting system powered by gas, which allowed them to be used as locomotive hauled cars on country trains during holiday periods, which were historically busier for the country lines than the suburbs. When in suburban use, the G cars were usually the second trailer in the Unit, so a typical 7 car set was actually M-T-T-M-G-T-M. There is a G car preserved in operational condition, 98G at the Mornington Tourist Railway, where it operates in a consist of country cars, usually hauled by steam loco K163.
What about the "D"cars, then the RINGER car which were a "D" with out the equipment
Also the "BT"" in place of a "G
@@archmcdonald6170 From memory, this was "Backup Trailer".. a Trailer with a motor, but with no driving cab... very happy to be corrected..
@@rustonhutchens783 Neither "D" or "BT" had motors from my memory, the "BT" replaced the "G"
Go job
The part with "lost their partners...at the hands pf arsonists" made me more sad than it should have.
There are two kinds of train vandals.
Those who love trains and want them to be more colourful. And those whom don't value what they have and are only out to destroy.
Unfortunately the later is far more common.
@@Hebdomad7 Though America seems to have 1 example of the former, going around painting the front of locomotives into their old liveries.
We’re all here for the nerdy content 🎉
Smashed that like button as soon as he promised nerdiest content yet
I'm here for the free blueberry muffins personally.
the comeng noises are iconic (and close to home, as a craigieburner)
Agreed
As someone who spent most of my life living in Belgrave, I love the x'trapolis acceleration sound from the traction motors. Now that I use the v/line trains more prominently, living in Geelong and all, it feels weird not to hear them under acceleration.
They're unfortunately not good for my sensory issues, especially the air compressor, so once I figured out it was an M car thing I started memorising platform layouts at my usual stops to stand in the right spots to board a T. Might as well put that autism to use hey
@@evermorestationthat’s a great idea :) honestly awesome I have autism too but I don’t live in Melbourne so thankfully it’s mostly quiet in terms of public transport where I live
Another reason to use 3 car sets for the Alamein Shuttle is because there is no room for a safe path next to the Camberwell siding, which is needed for drivers to change ends on a pair of 3 car sets.
Just restore the inner and outer loop lines and make this an orbital line
@@qjtvaddict Only unfortunate thing is you miss out on Alamein trains to Camberwell, though the 70 tram is very close and could be used as the encouraged connection. Still makes the connection to Belgrave/Lilydale harder due to moving to East Camberwell
My son loves your content, absolutely loses his mind when we put in “train man”
Haha that's excellent
I don't live in Melbourne.
I don't plan on visiting.
I don't even live close enough to consider doing so.
But yet for some reason... I'm obsessed with your videos!
The sound of the Xtraps and Comengs are so iconic!
So true
@@werwtty-in1qg 😎
There is something cathartic about riding in the emus.
"Hey mum, I think the next train is gonna be that flat faced one with the bumpy carriages"
I remember when we got to the hallam road level crossing, I would also always pray it would be the "Bombardier". I didn't know they were called Vlocity's as a kid.
Times are changing though. Railway crossings are becoming an endangered species in Melbourne.
Haha i always hoped for a hitachi to be "our train" when i was a kid 😂
I reckon I’ve seen that same pigeon at Newport waiting for 726M to show up 😜
Like others have said, this level of detailed and well presented nerdery is what TH-cam needs more of! The animations and graphics of the trains in this video is pure class👌(Particularly the X’trap wiring diagram 😂)
Looking forward to the Patreon only on how you made this video!
Thankyou, that wiring diagram took me many hours! 😅
What was that pigeon saying?
I got my shoe trapped in the points at the Newport yard. Missed out on becoming one legged by a second.
@@Syd_plane_and_train_spotter777 watch it again and see where the pigeon is 😜
Fun fact in Sydney. We’re still ordering 4 and 6 car sets for the New Intercity Fleet (D Sets). Will be fun to see them form 10 car sets, as seeing the end of the train on a curve is quite pleasing.
Yeah I thought it was pretty interesting that they went with two different set lengths too!
@@Taitset though we did do that here up until 2015? with the 2+3 and 2+2+3 V/Locity.
@@Soccera0 Yes, although that was just a transition thing as they slowly expanded all the sets to 3 cars.
@@Taitset yeah, I just found it interesting. I'm pretty sure I actually found that out from one of your videos!
A 10-car D Set is only about 10 metres longer than an 8- car V set but I guess that'll still a bit easier to see one end from the other.
I tell ya, man, you've got the most charismatic, humourous, and clear delivery of anybody making railway content (not even specific to Victoria / Australia - just *anywhere*). Top stuff, as always.
Thankyou very much!
I have no idea why I’m this interested in Melbourne’s railways, I’m from near Birmingham in England but I’ve been watching you for years and too see content this nerdy just makes me happy :)
Sydney sider here, great video! Been here for a while, I never knew I would be so interested in a rail system outside of ours. Hope a Sydney - Melbourne High speed rail eventually gets built!
You have no idea how badly I want that built. I would volunteer free of charge as a hard labourers just to get it built.
This kind of content is exactly my thing, thanks Martin! I think I really started to become aware of the subtle differences when I was about 8, so 1979-80. Those days, exactly as you said, I'd be on the platform, trying to guess what coloured train would come along. It was always fun sitting in the motor cars, particularly on the Taits, hence my practice on Steamrail Tait runs. It wasn't till the Hitachis that there was a decent sized window into the guard's cab, with the chance of looking forward, usually at the crack left by the lowered blind! And, being the nerd, I may have had a good memory for numbers and a desire to 'collect them all'!
A question which could solve a mystery; in the early 90s, when I went to work by train, I'd occasionally ride a Comeng M car, which had quite different traction motor sounds. I likened it to a stepping-up sci-fi 'whoop', and never learned what they were. And, being the new adult in the workforce, I was too distracted to remember the numbers of the Comeng spaceships!
Love the graphics and Alexander's models. I did giggle at the X'Trap 'wiring diagram', someone needs to unloop the looped cable otherwise it could kink and all the electricity would build up then blast out when the cable is straightened out! Thanks so much for this vid, too.
There were some Comeng M cars fitted with chopper control, which made a sort of buzzing sound like a Z3 class tram: th-cam.com/video/VdhqQw0r52Q/w-d-xo.html
If it's not that, then I'm not sure!
To provide a NZ example.
Auckland operates 3 car sets which operate either together as a six car train or separately. The 3 cars are arranged as: M-T-M in this practice... but one of the two motor cars has a pantograph and the other doesn’t. The middle trailer is where the wheelchair space is and it is also lower floor for direct level boarding. In the future we'll be running 9-car trains made up of three units.
Wellington conversely uses trains that are 2-cars. M-D in Melbourne parlance. The D cars having a lower floor height for accessibility.
These are either operated separately or arranged into 4-6-8 car trains.
I subscribed at around the 13:10 mark, and I would like to formally request the delivery of a blueberry muffin.
I don't even like blueberry, but why not.
So you saw that too!
As a train enthusiast who used to live in Melbourne and now spends her days logging all the Melbourne train sets I see on TH-cam into spreadsheets, I really appreciated the extra explanations. Makes me want to go back and ride in an M car :-)
the attention to detail on these graphics is brilliant
I swear I have slept to one of Martin's videos. His voice is so relaxing to listen to!
petition for martin to do asmr
@@tigermastr1021 agreed 👍
The Sydney double deck trains are a beautiful design. The best double deck design I have experienced anywhere in the world. They perfectly solve the entry/exit, stairs and ends at platform level for wheeled passengers.
One thing that is particularly noticeable about them, besides the layout and reversible seats, is how quiet they are. They are almost dead silent both internally and externally.
I haven't tried the new Sydney Metro trains so don't know if they have maintained the quietness.
Hi Martin, love the content. Given its mention in this video, I'd be really interested in knowing more about Melbourne's double decker train experience. I remember riding them back in the day and thinking they were great, but they vanished without a trace.
It was just one single train, I covered it a little bit in this video: th-cam.com/video/qSyG8mPzWqc/w-d-xo.html
eyyyyyyy new taitset video out gotta watch instead of studying for my math test
As a spark driver you did well explaining them all,well done.
The Taits had the best traction motor sound, as a guard on the sparks in the early eighties, i rode in Taits, hitachis, and Comengs. Great video, thanks.
Its uncommon to have 6 car suburban trains split up on a regular basis, but Vlocity trains do it very frequently. I regularly take the 8:01am from Wendouree, being an up Ararat service it operates as 3 cars and is shown on the information displays at terminating at Ballarat. This is because it inches into Ballarat to combine with another 3 car service from Maryborough. After around 15 minutes it completes the service to Southern Cross as 6 cars.
I always love watching your videos, the info is always interesting, the scripts are written well, and you sound actually enthusiastic. I definitely learnt some interesting things from this video! keep up the fantastic work mate.
Wall said! Lol
My great grandfather would be incredibly proud of how far railway technology has come. After serving in World War 2 he returned to Melbourne and worked in the electrical substations for the railways. He would be absolutely amazed by the advancements that have been made, and the impact his work has had on the industry. His contributions to the railway system have paved the way for the modern and efficient transportation we enjoy today.
Very interesting. I now know how varied the number of carriages for a service could be in the past.
RIP the 4D. And RIP the dream to have unified fleets between Sydney and Melbourne. How good would that have been? Sydney's train layouts are really advanced by world standards, with seating capacity of two Airbus A380 planes each. Imagine if the T-set Tangara was followed by the M-set Millenium and the A and B-set Waratah series 1 and 2. The Waratah in particular has a kicker of an engine in it, and really takes off from the station. And SO incredibly smooth on the suspension. Plus when the train is empty, it's so quiet you can hear a quiet voice from the opposite end of the saloon.
Plus there's none of that gimmicky "tucking in" around the curved doors. Some of the Melbourne sets do that, and some of them don't. What gives? Surely the kinetic envelope and loading gauge weren't different when the 1990s or 2000s ordered new trains?
Excellent production! I must admit I was waiting for you to explain why the Siemens trains are so damn quiet! I rarely go to Melbourne but I have noticed that you can hear a pin drop on the Siemens!
another banger, thanks Taitset. i've been travelling on Melbourne Metropolitan trains my whole life and your videos answer everything I have ever wondered about why our trains are like that.
I used to travel on the Alamein line for school and often ended up on 3 car sets if I traveled off of peak. I missed the train a few times because I was waiting and the wrong end of the platform at Riversdale and didn't make it to the other end in time!
I also experienced the same platform changeover at Camberwell a lot, it's definitely convenient
The Comeng sounds remind me so much of my childhood on the Class 455. Those sets often used old Southern Railway equipment underneath and the DC motors sounded awesome. Sadly they've been either withdrawn or re-tractioned with new euipment (that exploded a couple of times). I hope the Comeng sets have a similar sort of "warm smell" from DC traction too.
Also on the wheelchair note, I would love to hear about wheelchair access. I'm currently putting together a series of articles about level boarding in the UK and would love to know about how it's done overseas.
I rode on a 455 in the UK and thought it sounded a lot like a Comeng!
If you'd like some detailed info on wheelchair use/level boarding in Melbourne, send me an email (via the contact button on my channel page) and I can tell you all about it!
Good insights and a lot of it matches the state of play in Auckland. We run permanently coupled three-car CAF sets that are quite similar to your Siemens units. Currently a mix of single and double sets to cover demand while minimising mileage on the tracks and rolling stock. We do a lot of coupling and uncoupling either side of peak period to delay the big 1/3-life rebuild as there's currently nowhere to do that work. It's a big fault risk to couple so many times a day, so I look forward to getting back to patronage that demands full fleet utilisation. As per Melbourne, our maintenance facility can only cope with 3-car sets. We're at 72 sets now with 23 more starting to arrive. Once the fleet exceeds 100, we may see six-car units on the menu as the Wiri depot will be at capacity and a new depot capable of handling a new six or even nine-car unit would be an option.
Classification in Auckland - Units are AM (Auckland Metro) plus three digits. All three cars have the same digits because they're permanently coupled, but each car has letters describing it's type. The nominal "front" is the AMP (pantograph) which is a driving motor car with pantograph. In the middle is the low-floor, unpowered AMT (trailer). Last is the driving motor (AMA) Auxiliary car with no pantograph. Other than the pantograph and main transformer, they're pretty much symmetrical and operate identically from either end. The only difference you'd notice in the AMP-car is the sound of the main circuit breaker closing after traversing a neutral section.
Just to add, Sydney has some odd history too. The silver sets were originally operated as 2, 4 or 6 car sets. Eventually, they were all converted to be operated as 4 car sets, and many of the cabs were removed. The ones that are left now operate as 8 car sets (2 semi permanently coupled 4 car sets), and on some of them, there are 8 cabs (some aren't really cabs now, and are just extended vestibule space) because of those days
Good video as always, although I'm gonna be a pedant and point out that the Tangaras were not the first to use non-control motors. The prefix actually dates back to 1926 with the standard motor cars, as around a dozen entered service without their cabs installed and were used in non divisible sets (e.g. C-T-T-N-N-T-T-C, basically the inverse of a modern waratah). they did install the cabs later in 1928 when funding was available though, and then the N prefix sat un-used until the Tangaras.
Interesting, thanks! I actually had a feeling I'd seen a picture of a single deck N car, but then I did a quick search and didn't find anything, and assumed I was wrong. Good to know I wasn't going crazy. :)
@@Taitset I'm surprised you found a photo at all if I'm honest! they were only a thing for a very short period of time, and at a time when photography was rare.
16:47 best sound ever
Breathed a sigh of relief at 10:44 when you mentioned 3 car sets on Alamein. I think you pitch your audience just fine in terms of nerdiness!
The middle driver cabins are sometimes used. As a place for off duty drivers to ride in
That high pitch sound hurts my head but I worked out it was only in the middle cars so just tried to use the T cars
I'm glad I know that now for future trips.
Actually so helpful. That high pitched whine in the Comeng trains (our exclusive train on the Craigieburn Line) can definitely get really, really annoying and piercing, especially for a Craigieburn to Flinders St trip.
Thanks for letting me know what drove me insane with its buzzing noise on the Comeng trains lol. I always pick the M car at the very end of the train because its doors open right in front of the staircase exiting my home station.
I always loved the sound of the compressor in the Tait.
Here in Adelaide the only train with a trailer carriage is the 4000 Class. The 3000 Class are railcars (like the Sprinter) and I believe the 3100 Class is a 2 carriage DMU.
After watching this video, it makes me want to go in a specific carriage now. The occasional trips on the Willie line does to me sound... different inside. It must be the motor.
Thanks for a very different subject on our lines
A well-timed upload, seeing as I was just in Melbourne. Regarding the driving trailer in the middle of the Tait EMU, I thought that was confusing, especially after seeing the preserved set on the Sunbury Line last weekend.
My favourite Melbourne EMU is easily the Comeng. That's because I generally prefer older trains to new ones, and the Comeng's traction motor sound is great. I guess the one thing I don't like or understand about these units is the fact that you have to pull the doors open rather than pressing a button. In any case, by favourite Comeng coach is 352M, and my second favourite Melbourne EMU is the refurbished Harris.
amazing video, but kinda hoped for more detail on the HCMT internal layout, i still haven't figured out how to measure where to stand on the platform to get on with my heavy bike comfortably - is it the fire door cars? or the inverse of the fire door cars?
Yeah they haven't really made it obvious enough. There are some rectangular white stickers on the sides which I think show where the extra space is, otherwise you can get on at the back and use the rear wheelchair space.
My local area in the UK, on the Snow Hill Lines near Birmingham, has an interesting make-up of trains. Usually it's like this:
TOC (train operating company): West Midlands Railway
Class: 172 DMU, of the Turbostar family. Introduced in 2010/11 to replace the Class 150 DMUs built back in the 80s.
There are four sub-classes:
172/0: 2 coaches, non-gangway ends, formerly with London Overground. 8 built
172/1: 2 coaches, non-gangway ends, formerly with Chiltern Railways. Pretty much the same as the 172/0s. 4 built.
172/2: 2 coaches, gangway ends. Have always been in the Birmingham area with London Midland and stayed as it became West Midlands Railway. 12 built.
172/3: 3 coaches, gangway ends, same history as with the 172/2s. 15 built.
So on the Snow Hill Lines we get trains of two, three, four, five or six coaches, and now that the 172/0s and 172/1s have been cascaded to WMR, there's all manner of possible combinations. Note: the six coach trains are only made using two 3-car sets rather than 3 two-car sets. Thing is, if your train is made up of a 172/2 and or a 172/3 unit together you can walk between the individual trains thanks to the gangway ends, but you can't do that if you have a 172/0 or a 172/1. As a result, putting say a 172/1 and a 172/3 together creates a bit of an odd look, and you can't walk between the trains!
As for the classifications of the individual coaches, they use a lot of letters!
DMOS: Drivers's cab, Motor car, Open saloon, Standard class
MOS: Motor car, Open saloon, Standard class
DMSOLW: Drivers's cab, Motor car, Open saloon, Standard class, Lavatory, Wheelchair accommodation
They have a great sound as well; here's a clip from way back in 2012 of a pair of units (a 172/2 and a 172/3) leaving Stourbridge Junction: www.yotubue.com/watch=JecAbHc6HAU
And for comparison in looks, here's an ex-Chiltern Railways 172/1 leaving Worcester Foregate Street in 2021: www.youtube.com/watch=XKC7TAcudSs
We used to get Class 170 Turbostar units as well (also with various sub-classes), they looked like the 172/0/1s and usually worked the Bromsgrove line though to Birmingham New Street, and sometimes a 170 would be coupled up to a Class 153 Sprinter, a single car train! A very strange formation! Nowadays, they've been replaced by the Class 196.
Another word I've heard used for a consist, though I think it might only apply to steam trains nowadays, is rake.
In the video, you should have mentioned that the motor alternators are different depending on the refurbished Comeng set. The Alstom refurbished Comeng trains have the high pitch whine, while the EDI refurbished Comeng trains have a nice sounding rumble.
Great video! This is exactly the type of nerdery I want and expect from this channel, so please keep it coming. It does bother me that no clear distinction is made between different "classes"/"generations" (realising as I write this that I don't even know what the proper terminology here is) of suburban train in the Victorian numbering scheme. I really feel like you should be able to tell from a unit's serial number whether it's, say, a Comeng or a Siemens without having to know the range of numbers for each type of rolling stock. Then again, keeping track of rolling stock type designations is probably at least as esoteric as being able to tell them apart visually, so this is probably just one of those things (like signalling systems) where the system you learn first is the one that makes sense to you and everything else seems insane.
Yeah it's definitely a good point! We usually just say 'type' of train, for some reason Melbourne hasn't traditionally used the term 'class' for EMU/DMUs.
With a bit of exposure to the system, it's pretty easy to remember the number ranges, especially as you only really only have to remember what each one starts at - ie first Comeng is 301M, first Siemens is 701M, so anything in-between is a Comeng.
There was actually an exception to this, the classification for Swingdoor and Tait trains was different (and more complicated) when they were first built, with extra letters describing passenger class, and guard's compartment (all cabs). In this system there was also a letter 'P' included for Tait cars, to separate them from Swingdoor cars. First class was A, Second B, Guard C, so an ACPM was a first class Tait motor, but an ACM would be a first class Swingdoor motor. They changed to the current system in 1921, but the A/B/C codes continued to be used for country cars.
Great video!! One thing to mention at Camberwell is in some cases off peak that platform 2 is a dedicated alamein detraining platform. All down trains use the points and use platform 3 so it makes it easier to interchange to alamein I suppose rather than having to cross the bridge. Naturally its a completely different arrangement during peak hour with all lines going to the city and many trains speeding through camberwell! Open to correction ofc
Fantastic video!! Really really informative, and I loved every moment of it!
Was there any specific reason the HCMTs were ordered as 7-car sets, rather than 6-car sets for interoperability with all the other rollingstock? (The odd number of cars feels weird for my Sydney brain lol.) I assume Metro just really wanted the additional capacity of a 7th carriage?
Good question, they're actually only slightly longer than the existing 6 car sets (the actual cars are shorter). The most likely thing I can think of is that they wanted to make the most use possible of the existing City Loop platforms, which would obviously be very hard to extend. A 7 car HCMT fills the Loop platforms completely, with the noses hanging off slightly into the tunnel.
Hello! As alluded to in the video, the HCMTs are designed to ultimately run as a 10-car set at around 225m (give or take). The length of the carriages at 7 cars is, as alluded to, slightly longer than the rest of the fleet, but generally long enough to fit in the platforms, even in the MURL where some signals had to be repositioned so the driver could see them when stationary. This is another reason the CFD loop runs anti clockwise all the time. Your summation about two more M cars and one more T car is correct. The numbering of the HCMTs is interesting and almost helps identify the carriage as well as the fleet - the first digit shows the type of train (if it wasn’t already obvious); the second shows which carriage it is (with the 99 series always facing Dandenong when the Metro Tunnel opens); and the last two showing which specific set it is. So, carriage 9954 is a HCMT, Driving Trailer (or TC) at the Dandenong end (when the tunnel opens), in set 54. (:
HCMTs will only run on the soon to be connected via the metro tunnel, Sunbury and Dandenong (Pakenham/Cranbourne) lines, which will become the longest continuous line, a cross town one when the tunnel opens next year.
Power upgrades are part of this, the trains can run on other lines, and do for testing, easier to test them and get the odometer upto the required number on quieter lines. But they draw more power than older trains, so multiple wouldn't be able to run in the same power blocks on most of the network.
There's plans for a number of platforms to be extended and run 10 car sets in the future along this line for extra capacity.
Thanks! I used to ride the red rattlers back in the day (Sandringham line). Now I'm sitting in Dandenong, watching this and the HCMTs pass while I wait for a sensible train (purple and noisy)
HCMT naming reminds me of (old) German passenger trailer naming, which look like Dpbmz and such.
5:58 I hope the passengers are okay after those inversions
very interesting! I am fascinated by trains since I was a kid but hey, I just board the carriage nearest to the train station exit.
This is the content I thrive for, thanks for putting so much effort into your videos. Love the video ❤
I like how the electrical engineer included a cute little loop on the X-trap power distribution cables. 😉
Another great video and I am definitely always here for the nerdy stuff you put out! If the HCMT car designations are a headache to you, check out some of the codes for passenger coaches (or goods wagons) in Europe according to the UIC. They are insanely specific!
Another well crafted video, Martin. The various characteristics of Melbourne's trains are well explained for the novice enthusiast and general enquirer and I really found it difficult to detect any significant error. Nice to see the coverage of 3 car Comeng sets on Jordanville bank (just down the road from me). Loved the clip of the model double ended Tait on Alex's garden railway. Keep up the good work.🙂🙂🙂
Surprised about the 4 pantographs up on a single train. It is extremely rare in Switzerland unless the train is powered by locomotives, and then there are speed restrictions depending on the distance and number of pantographs, as they can damage the catenary and anyway the current can be collected by a single panto and delivered to each motor. And even without the potential damage, 4 pantographs are going to cause a lot more wear and tear on the copper.
Also, does Victoria use UIC numbering on the sides of the trains? Makes the identification of trains so much easier
The need for more pantographs may relate to our fairly low voltage of 1500v dc. Having said that, X'trapolis have just 2 pantographs for the 6 car set.
UIC numbers are a eruopean thing, they wouldn't make much sense here!
@@Taitset we use 15kV, but it is converted to 1760 by the internal converters for the use by the motors, and the heating/cooling/other carriage systems are fed at 1500, so I guess that your local sets save a lot on weight by not needing heavy transformers but ultimately run at about the same voltage, just how this affects the need for more pantographs I don't know. I can only think that you'd need more wiring to obtain the same intensity at the point of entry, but I'm not an electrical engenieer! Someone else may be better able to answer the question. Thanks for the videos by the the way, forgot to mention how much I enjoy learning about Victoria's rail system thanks to you!
I had no idea of any this, found it fascinating, you do such great work. Thank you.
Fantastic video as always, thank you Martin!
Quick question about that Comeng 3-car set crossing Heyington Rail Bridge at 9:25 . Was that video taken from the Yarra Boulevard? If so, I notice the pedestrian walkway attached to the western side of the bridge is missing! Do you know when it was added?
Once again, great work! Always makes my day when I see a new Taitset video has been posted. 😊
Glad you enjoyed it! That video was taken in 2006 from the south side of the river, of a down train, so the pedestrian bridge would be on the other side. Although I'm not sure if it dis exist at that time!
@@Taitset Oh interesting, didn’t realise there was a spot to stand and watch, film, and photograph trains on that side of the river! Thanks for the clarification
Love the RVB horn too! Sad that they’re no more
Damn I have never noticed the differences on the bogie bottoms before in such detail.
I was hoping you'd also discuss V/Line consists (loco-hauled sets, DMUs, railcars etc). Do you think you could maybe do that as a part 2 to this video please?
This is excellent, and if at some point you'd like to do a similar video on Sydney's rolling stock I'd love that!
Edit: A more in depth video on Sydney's rolling stock, if depth is possible. And I'd like to hear about the interesting 2 and 3 letter systems on the intercity trains.
Another fantastic video Martin!
Thanks Will!
Great video, it's a pity sparks don't go to Warragul any more, I use to live in Bunyip and catch the early morning train to Pakenham .
Sometimes I would catch the train to Warragul and the driver would open it right up , Hitachi's sounded awesome flat out between Drouin and Warragul and it's something we'll never experience again.
Great video! The explanation of noises in carriages was interesting, but didn't cover the unique sound of the HCMTs. When first moving off they have a distinctive traction motor sound, then after a few seconds it dramatically changes to a higher pitch- almost like a car changing down gears for more acceleration.
I'm curious what this actually is as I'm sure electric trains don't have gears.
Hi Martin, great video as always. You might want to look into the new TMF being built at Kananook to see if it can fit a 6 car set. My understanding is the X'trap 2.0 is destined for the Frankston line so I wouldn't be surprised if it does.
Thankyou! I would imagine all new maintenance facilities will be able to fit at least six cars from now on, they can already do it at Craigieburn which I expect will be the main X2polis depot.
Great video 👍, keep it up, one of my favourites to date!
Great Video, but just a very slight nerdy thing that I noticed as an Alamein Line Commuter.
At 10:56, you explained that the Shuttle arrives at Platform 1, but this is mostly incorrect. It usually arrives at Platform 2 so there is no conflict between the Shuttle Train and the City Bound Train from Belgrave/Lilydale that uses Platform 1 (they're usually only scheduled 2 or so minutes apart).
It's usually only if there isn't a Flinders Street Train scheduled directly after that Platform 1 is used for the Alamein Shuttle, and even when this is the case, the Shuttle usually just turns around in Platform 1 and heads straight back.
I know this doesn't matter at all, but I just had to lol.
That's very interesting, never seen it done like that when I've been there! Running into 2 is still a conflict with the other train as it has to cross its path to get there. But certainly makes sense to use 2 where possible.
@@Taitset There might be a conflict while both trains are arriving, yes. But once the Alamein Train arrives on Platform 2, the city bound train can just jump past it on Platform 1 without having to wait for it to shunt out. Sometimes both trains leave the station simultaneously, running parallel until the Shuttle Train stops in the siding.
I was always told the blocks were on the eastern end of the trains and units were on the western end...interesting. Also, Comengs had the ability to run with the rear two carriages locked-out and lights off, forcing passengers to all use the first carriage. This was used in very late night runs once upon a time.
Thanks for this nerdy stuff. i’m enjoying it a lot.
I was in Brisbane recently and I noticed the wheelchair boardings are different for the NGRs and the other rollingstock due to the use of both guards and station staff.
It was really fun
Fantastic nerdy info. I was always fascinated will the front door on the Hitachi driver's cabins and wondered if they were ever used.
I do have to ask; Are the Comeng motors the last to use DC motors and are the latter ones 3 phase running off inverters, and will that mean that one day, they will finally run AC on the overhead supply?
I believe the Siemens/X'traps/HCMT do have AC traction motors, I don't know much detail beyond that though! Some of the modern overhead looks like it's designed to allow future conversion to 25kv AC, but I don't think there's any real plan to do it any time soon.
@@Taitset Until the various line groups are split up more, converting to 25kV AC would be a nightmare. If and when each line group is isolated properly with the City Loop reconfiguration (and maybe the Metro 2 tunnel) it might be feasible to swap in new equipment fairly rapidly.
Until then, forget about it (apart from the SRL).
Another factor in train consists is defective motors. There is a certain percentage of powered carriages versus trailers required to get up hills. With the MTM-MTM set up a driver can 'cut-out' defective motors and the train can stay in service because there are still three powered carriages to haul three non-powered carriages. With the MTTM-TTM set up of the 'read and blue' trains if defective motors had to be cut out then there would be only two powered carriages hauling five non-powered carriages. Defective motors is a common thing, although strictly speaking it is often not actually the motors that are dodgy, but a fault somewhere in the control system. Either way it means those motors can't be used. Trains could and would stay in service for 3-4 weeks with dodgy motors cut-out until they get around to fixing them. Drivers don't like trains with motors cut out because, obviously, they are slower.
Very comprehensive 😊👍 Cheers from Perth
Fabulous! Look forward to the next one :)
Actually I’ve got a question, how come with most M-T-M sets the numbers of the trailer cars seemingly go way higher than motor cars despite being outnumbered 2-1?
Each car type (and each train type) is within its own number range, so being a higher number doesn't mean there are more of them, it just means they started from a higher number. Possibly they made all the T cars in 4 digit ranges to make them more obviously separate.
Whenever at a level crossing we'd always play a game of "guess what direction the train is coming from", somehow my dad would always know, we never won the game!
Wow, that was super nerdy!
I loved it.
Ahoy! The fire door part was interesting for me. Are the fire doors only on earlier sets of HCMT’s? Most ones I ride are fully walk through but I recall a few in the early days of their rollout having these doors throughout the train. I actually thought they were quite odd!
They're on every HCMT, but normally retracted when in service. Might have been a fault if you saw them closed!
@@TaitsetI’ll be on the lookout now!
14:30 I gotta say, that’s an absurd power to carriage ratio for one train, that’s 6/4
Not really, 6 car trains are already 2/4
Thanks for the vid dude. Great work.
Speaking of fun train noises, when I was living in Yokohama I used to ride the Keikyu Line and the sound of the N1000 Series when they accelerate is really nice. They're nicknamed "Do-re-mi-fa Inverters." Worth checking out. I think they retired them a couple of years ago though.
All the Metro trains on my line are 7 carriages. Great presentation.
Loving the nerdy content and looking forward to more. 🙂
Love these videos especially when I see the old Red Rattalers ❤
aside from cases like the Alamein line, is there ever an advantage to running shorter trains in off-peak on train networks in general, or is it a similar thing to the argument for running smaller buses in off peak periods (Canberra ditched their Midi Buses for a reason!)
In the past it was considered important because it reduced mileage on rollingstock thereby allowing less frequent maintenance, and also used less electricity. But these days they prefer to just wear those costs for the sake of convenience.
@@Taitset I’d be happy with three car sets off-peak if it meant more frequent trains, every 30 minutes on the Upfield line is painful! Given that the main expense is the driver, I don’t think it would help sadly.
It does make a difference with trams though because multiple short trams (eg. A-Class) can be at a tram stop together but long trams (eg. E-Class) need an entire stop to themselves. The 96 trams often get backed up, the one in front slowed down by large numbers of passengers getting on and off, and the second tram unable to get to the stop. Always fun on the old St Kilda line, sitting next to the remains of the longer train platform while your tram is unable to stop at the now shorter platform.
I wonder what the X'trap 2's are gonna use? maybe the classic MTMMTM or DMMMMD, who know?
They're going to be MTMMTM, but with no cabs on the centre M cars. So, using the Sydney term for non-driving motor: MTNNTM.
@@Taitset oh nice, thank you!
Thanks for that great video 👍
Two days ago I went on a red rattler a.k.a. Tait set I took lots of pictures and videos.
Living on the Craigieburn line, I'll be glad to eventually see the Comeng trains replaced with modern ones like others on the network.
Another great video Martin - really well explained plus enjoyed the Sydney comparison too!
I know you live in Melbourne but next trip to Sydney a similar video would be great including V sets, the new NIFs and Metro trains could be included - thanks again TD 👍✅😁
Can I have my free blueberry muffin? Please and thanks!
(Sidenote: I would've loved to see a second distraction with Brisbane as the focus. We have a lot of weird stuff here that you would love to see. If you end up visiting one day, let me know!)
Great video as usual.
Thankyou! I will hopefully do a dedicated Brisbane video at some point. :)
Love your videos Martin - thank you. One question re the config of internal seating. In Mel the seats are facing to/from the direction of travel (except for the wheelchair areas). In Asia many countries have bench seating on each side of the carriage leaving a large open space in the middle. Is this a capacity thing or something else? Just curious. Cheers.
Longitudinal seating is common on high capacity high frequency metro systems, because it allows more space for people to stand. Despite the branding, Melbourne's network is a main line suburban system, not a proper 'metro.'
7:42, what does Wenger have against Melbourne suburban trains? Also, will the future trains and or HCMTs have level boarding?
All our trains already have level boarding in places where gap fillers have been fitted to platforms. I think they can only be fitted to straight platforms though, so it's going to be inconsistent for the foreseeable future.