There really is no way around it. Any reframing of these chapters in Isaiah would rob the passages of the weight they were intended to carry. "There were no gods before me.... except all of those gods who are farther progressed than myself. But there will be none after me!... except all those that will also be exalted and progress to eternity.... But I am still most high... in this universe. But nonetheless, worship me and me alone, because I have ultimate authority... that was given to me by another."
Joseph Smith rewrote the book of Isaiah. It’s documented historical church { LDS } history. When the truth is revealed, many more will leave the organization of the LDS manmade religion. Read a regular bought KJV Bible, and compare the chapter of Isaiah with the chapter of Isaiah from your Mormon religious church doctrine. You will see what JS did
I am LDS. I believe the book of Isaiah to be true. How do you explain Jesus who claims to be the Son of God (now there are two Gods) and who is clearly a separate individual from God? If you take Isaiah seriously how can you justify being a Christian?
@@robertrussell7468 It is explained by God being comprised of both the Father and the Son (two members of the triune Godhead, all inseparable from one another). There is no logical contradiction here. “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”
@@robertrussell7468 How do you explain the presence of deutero and trito Isaiah in the Book of Mormon?! The very idea of it being there is anachronistic and shuts the door on the B of M being anything other than 19th century fiction, written by Joseph Smith. His fingerprints are all over it, including his misguided and wrong 19th century ideas.
@@BNichols021 How do you understand Acts 7:55-56 But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God. “Look,” he said, “I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.” (Acts 7:55-56) Here is a little more context for John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word,and the Word was with God,and the Word was God. 2 He was WITH God in the beginning. Being with God in the beginning is different than being God. We believe Jesus is God as part of the Godhead. We also believe what the Bible teaches that from the beginning Jesus was a separate being from God who was with God.
Great job!! This was the reason for me to leave the Mormon church, you must put God first in all things, before family, husband, etc. This is blasphemy against God!! It cannot be more proven than in Joseph Smith's writings!! The Mormon church deceives its members, this is not talked about or presented to new members!
I agree. The Bible is crystal clear that Jesus and God are one in purpose not one in substance. Take John 5 for an example: 17 In his defense Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working.” (If He is the same person as God the Father, why make the distinction here?) 18…but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God. (The Jewish leaders understood that Jesus wasn’t calling Himself God the Father. He was saying He was separate.) 19 Jesus gave them this answer: “Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does. (There are two individuals here. The observer and the observed.) 31 “If I testify about myself, my testimony is not true. … 37 And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. (If God and Jesus are of one substance then Jesus would be testifying of Himself and His testimony would not be true! Honestly, I don’t understand how much clearer the Bible can be. Jesus can’t testify of Himself. Instead His Father who is a separate being testifies of Him.)
@@robertrussell7468 The Bible is clear that there is only one God. Also clear, each is called God in the Bible; Father, Son and Holy Ghost. One being. Three distinct persons. You may like it, or not. But, that's what the Bible clearly simply does say. Would you like to see the verses? You may already know them.
Only our Father in Heaven has the power to open the minds of those who believe in a false gospel, a false doctrine, and a different God/Jesus that is not Biblical. All we can do is share the truth, pray that some of the seeds we sew will fall on fertile soil, and let God give the increase. I have spoken on Isaiah many times with Mormons and no matter how it is discussed, they do not believe. What is even more interesting is the Book of Mormon says the same thing, that there is no other God! I thought Mormonism was shaped around the Book of Mormon, but in reality, it is built around all these "doctrines" and "revelations" given by their proclaimed prophets. The Lord God has caused these people who believe in Mormonism to have their minds seared with a hot iron, being enamored, disillusioned to a false doctrine, to a gospel that cannot save. Even when I challenge Mormons to review Freemasonry, it's origins and history, including all their doctrines, ordinances, oaths, and compare them to the Mormon temple ceremony, they either refuse to research the truth, or flat out state there is no similarities between Freemasonry with Mormonism, even though we can show definitively when Joseph Smith Jr became involved with Freemasonry and right after, the temple ordinances were created. It doesn't matter how much physical proof of texts, general conference talks, journal entries, news paper editorials of the time, etc, we show, most Mormons would rather stick their heads in the sand instead of doing what God has commanded all of us to do, and that is, to TEST the prophets, and TEST all teachings with Scripture (Bible). We can only warn those who are caught up in Mormonism and pray for them, and hope they will find their way out of this great deception that Satan has created.
They won't because we have been taught a false dichotomy out whole lives- that because the book of Mormon is true, it is ALL TRUE. And that because of that, we have an understanding of God. And if anyone preaches against that, it feels VERY threatening to their world view and belief even in God at all.... I know, because I was raised generational Mormon, did all the things, and recently left. We are not taught to think with our rational minds. I'm finding some similar thought patterns in greater Christian denominations and religions. To be clear, I have I do believe in God and Jesus, particularly Jesus, because my inner knowing there is A God is just there and so strong. I've also tested new age ideologies in the past and found them to be false. They don't provide fruit. They provide confusion. So far, believing in the very simple gospel of Jesus' grace for me, his sacrifice, and faith...believing and receiving him has given me the most clear mind and sound results. Along with thinking for myself.
The temple veil was Torn at his Crucifixion. Mormons put it back. God literally became human, and Jesus was the absolutely unique Incarnation.This passes rational understanding and is a matter of faith and the great mystery of faith, for 2000+ years. The preaching of the Good News in the early days was simple. Mormons are just so wrong, but I respect thier very different beliefs, but they DO need to learn about mainstream Christiany IF they demand to be considered Christian.
I like your channel. Disillusioned Mormon here. I just wonder why evangelicals go to so much trouble about Joseph’s doctrines about the nature of God and not the fact that he was a liar, fraud and scoundrel. If we know the latter who cares about the former? It’s like you are legitimizing him as a bona fide theologian instead of a scam artist. That’s how this heartbroken 5th generation descendent of polygamist (adulterous!) Mormon ancestors feels anyway. I think the true nature of Joseph Smith is how to get to LDS. They have to start completely over. At least I did. Mormons are just not that theological. It’s more of a culture than a religion. They just go through motions and say religious sounding things. It’s about the church, not God.
Hi Janice! That is actually intentional on our part (for a few reasons). Most people watching our videos already know that Joseph is a fraud. What they need to realize is that Christianity is a viable option! A lot of Mormons tend to assume that Mormonism = better Christianity; the LDS Church ties Christianity to the mast of the sinking ship of Mormonism so that when people leave the LDS Church, they think that Christianity is ALSO a fraud. We want to SHOW people that Mormonism ≠ Christianity-that the LDS Church actually teaches things CONTRARY to the Bible, and that a Christian is not simply a "Mormon lite," but a person of an entirely different religion. Second - if we only destroy Mormonism by focusing on internal problems/inconsistencies, that doesn't really help people before God! They STILL stand condemned and in need of salvation. But if the very thing that shattered Mormonism for someone IS the Bible, then learning true things about the nature of the unchanging and uncreated God and realizing the hope in of the Gospel of Grace can be the very catalyst that compels someone to ditch Mormonism. In that way, someone may leave Mormonism...into right and GENUINE knowledge of God and eternal life. I hope that helps explain a bit! This video might actually be interesting for you: th-cam.com/video/KKizsWlL5rA/w-d-xo.html This DOES focus a bit more on the internal inconsistencies with the Gold Plates story.
Hi Janice. Are you a Christian? I have a genuine question for former Mormons. Sometimes I hear that part of the reason people leave the church is because Joseph Smith pressured underage girls into marrying him. I am not at all trying to defend what he did but I am very curious about those who become Christians. What do you think about Old Testament prophets like Moses, Joshua and Samuel telling Israel that God told them to kill everyone, men, women and children in a given city? Or how do you feel about Abraham and Jacob having children with concubines who clearly had no choice in the matter? Again I am not trying to defend Joseph Smith. I genuinely want to better understand why for christians one is okay and the other is not.
@@GLMhank you! Yes I know when people leave the Mormon Church many tend to leave God too. So sad. I see what you are trying to do. It is such a tangled mess. For my husband and I it was decades ago when we began to see that there was never enough Jesus and Jesus was never enough there. So we did come to Jesus while still participating but it was torture. It us a long time to break free. And discovering the horrid history and legacy of the church really put us over the edge. Now we are going to a little Bible church nearby we just love and are learning so much. Keep up the good work. We have wanted to visit your church but it’s at the same time as this one and we hate to miss! So grateful for all the resources available.
@@GLMMy husband adds that when you engage with true blue Mormons regarding things like the trinity or an uncreated Jesus it just bounces off because they believe they have God’s priesthood/authority and everything their leaders say is true and stuff they don’t talk about doesn’t matter. This is practically impossible to penetrate. We wonder who these Mormons are you are talking about who see Joseph Smith was a fraud but who are still in the church. We don’t know any of those! The closest are those who just refuse to confront those early problems. They won’t even read the church’s own essays. Another thing that really added to our leaving was how the church is going left morally and politically. Members may still be conservative but the leadership is not, tho this will be denied. You have to look at what they do more than what they may say. We could write a book on how it has changed. My husband was Elder Rasband’s mission companion and Rasband recently told him the church is evolving on the gay issue, for example. Just trying to help. We pray every day our own kids and grandkids will see the light! Most of our big family is still in the church.
Keep up the great work! But it is faith in Gods preserved word that I have problems with when I try to witness to the Mormons. I was born into Mormonism and have seen it change and shift to fit the culture. We have to have faith in the Bible that God purposefully preserved his word.
Isaiah is damning to LdS claims on many levels. The very idea of Isaiah being quoted in the Book of Mormon is so problematic, especially the presence of deutero- and trito- Isaiah in its text. Anachronistic.
I see there is a deep distrust on the LDS towards the Bible. My husband had to open his LDS Gospel Library app on his phone just so he could read Revelations Chapter 1 even with a big bible in front of him. All becuase he wanted to see ALL the footnotes that pertained to that chapter. So he was not mislead by just the Bible. I am not sure which footnotes could be found for Isaiah 40-48.
This was excellent. Thank you for sticking to the context of Isaiah. I can’t remember, but I think you mentioned something about God the Father being Elohim and Jesus being Lord/Jehovah. Please allow me to elaborate and note what the LDS Bible Dictionary has under the heading “God.” Besides stating that “there are three separate persons in the Godhead,” i.e., three separate gods, it says, “When one speaks of God, it is generally the Father who is referred to; that is, Elohim. All mankind are His children. The personage known as Jehovah in Old Testament times, and who is usually identified in the Old Testament as Lord (in small capitals), is the Son, known as Jesus Christ, and who is also a God” (emphasis mine). So, for LDS Jesus who is Jehovah/Lord in the Old Testament is a separate god from the Father who is Elohim. More specifically, according to LDS, Jehovah/Lord is not Elohim. With this in mind, let’s look at some Scripture and see not only what the Bible has to say in regards to there being more than one God, but also see if the LDS distinction of Jesus as Jehovah/Lord and the Father as Elohim can even work. Again, more specifically, is Jehovah/Lord a separate god from Elohim? Or is Jehovah/Lord Elohim? Deuteronomy 4:35 To you it was shown, that you might know that the Lord (Jehovah) is God (Elohim); there is no other besides him. Deut 4:39- know therefore today, and lay it to your heart, that the Lord (Jehovah) is God (Elohim) in heaven above and on the earth beneath; there is no other. Deut 32:39 See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god (Elohim) beside me; Jos 2:11 For the Lord (Jehovah) your God (Elohim), he is God (Elohim) in the heavens above and on the earth beneath. Isa 37:20 So now, O Lord (Jehovah) our God (Elohim), save us from his hand, that all the kingdoms of the earth may know that you alone are the Lord (Jehovah)." Isa 43:10-11"You are my witnesses," declares the Lord, "and my servant whom I have chosen, that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor shall there be any after me. I, I am the Lord, and besides me there is no savior. Isa 44:6Thus says the Lord (Jehovah), the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: "I am the first and I am the last; besides me there is no god (Elohim). Isa 45:5-6 I am the Lord (Jehovah), and there is no other, besides me there is no God (Elohim); I equip you, though you do not know me, that people may know, from the rising of the sun and from the west, that there is none besides me; I am the Lord(Jehovah), and there is no other. Isa 45:18 For thus says the Lord (Jehovah), who created the heavens (he is God (Elohim)!), who formed the earth and made it (he established it; he did not create it empty, he formed it to be inhabited!): "I am the Lord (Jehovah), and there is no other. Isa 45:21Declare and present your case; let them take counsel together! Who told this long ago? Who declared it of old? Was it not I, the Lord (Jehovah)? And there is no other god (el) besides me, a righteous God (Elohim) and a Savior; there is none besides me. Jer 10:10 But the Lord (Jehovah) is the true God (Elohim); he is the living God (Elohim) and the everlasting King. Joel 2:27 You shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the Lord (Jehovah) your God (Elohim) and there is none else.
@@robertrussell7468 Robert, did you get a chance to follow up on the references I gave for the following? “More specifically, according to LDS, Jehovah/Lord is not Elohim. With this in mind, let’s look at some Scripture and see not only what the Bible has to say in regards to there being more than one God, but also see if the LDS distinction of Jesus as Jehovah/Lord and the Father as Elohim can even work. Again, more specifically, is Jehovah/Lord a separate god from Elohim? Or is Jehovah/Lord Elohim?” (See above).
Read the following and then tell me again that God doesn't share his glory with us: John 17:20-23 20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; 21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: 23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we
They forget that there is a king of heaven and also a prince of heaven.. The King of Heaven put on a wedding feast for the marriage of his Son Jesus who is the Bridegroom.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR READING THAT EXCERPT FOR ALMOST 2MINUTES AND A HALF If i Remember it right, the first time i read that quote/excerpt was from an anti-LDS literature am a new convert of 3yrs then The Doctrine of the Godhead And Exaltation is my First Question the moment the Elders are teaching me in our Home As they say the First Discussion Oh how i loved it My mind were enlightened Am only 13 years old that time I know Joseph Smith is a Prophet of God I Know Isaiah is A Prophet of God and Prophet Isaiah Do Testifies of Jesus Christ ! This video of yours is the core My favorite topic to share and defend with Thank You So much For Reading that Discourse It Stremgthens more of my testimony And reminded me How Great is Our God And The Atoning Sacrifice of Jesus Christ This Coming Sunday Our Topic aa a Speaker Is Our Conversion Story How Great is Our God and Christ
I too used to think that the King Follett discourse was one of their greatest revelations ever enunciated. I held this view from about age 11 to 38. But now I know better. There is nothing in the sermon that is in accordance with the Bible. I can’t think of one citation that is given in sound principles of interpretation. Re examine it for yourself carefully while you study the passages quoted and you will understand that I’m not making this up. Peace.
In the Book of kings, the northern and southern kingdoms have two kings with the same name at the same time kings Jeroham & Jeroham! What's that all about?
@Robert Carlson There are many named Jeroham, but since you mentioned the book of Kings; did you mean Jehoram? If so, I can understand as things can get a bit tricky when it comes to everything Judean monarchy lol. To try and be concise: King Ahab (North) and King Jehoshaphat (South) both; had not only an alliance treaty but a friendship that evidently extended even to the naming of their sons. Jehoshaphat, before the battle of Ramoth-Gilead where Ahab was fatally wounded by an arrow; took the precaution to have his son installed as coregent on the throne of Judah. This is why Ahab's younger son Jehoram, began his reign as king of Israel in the second year of Jehoram, King of Judah. I hope this helps. Grace & peace.
If God is not a man then why would the resurrected Christ with an immortal body of flesh and bones (see Luke 24) be the express image of the person of the Father? Hebrews 1:1-3 1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; 3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
Joseph Smith is wrong? Yes according to ancient 2000-3000 years old texts which is our Bible. But what if he was a genuine prophet chosen by God for this age? That we're only have now as human beings developed far enough as to be ready for the final knowledge about God? Why are there no new revelations in 2000 years? Isn't God anymore a living God present in history like Jesus claimed Him to be? Or is God only to be found in those ancient texts? Everything that exists has a beginning. "God has always existed" is a statement that we have all heard. So once there was nothing at all, no universe, just emptiness, but God was there - but how did God exist/become God? Isn't that statement "God has always existed" like a no answer? What if Joseph Smith answered that troublesome question once and for all? Besides, didn't Smith believe in God and prayed to Him and worshipped only Him (Jehovah=Jesus) even after these revelations? Of course he did at least to my little knowledge of him. But I do of course believe in a Creator of all. Jesus is the way, the truth and the life, in Him we can trust all through our life and eventual death. I'm waiting for his 2nd coming, the end to this wicked barbaric world, His world, which we human beings are just destroying both morally and physically.
That same JS also believed he would become a God after death. And those that followed him. Does a true prophet who believes and worships 1 God believe he will become a god? Let alone believe that the Father is not eternal. There are "gods" older than The Father
The Apostle Paul teaches the following: 1 Corinthians 8:4-6 4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one. 5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) 6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. Here the Apostle Paul first declares the idols are nothing. Paul doesn't even consider them to be gods. Then He tells us that there is none other God but one. He then clarifies that there are gods many and lords many but to us there is but one God, the Father and one Lord Jesus Christ. Basically Paul understood that there are gods many and lords many but the God of our universe and the God with whom we have anything to do is one Godhead in the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. Jesus understood that there are gods many since he called those unto whom the word of God came 'gods' in Psalms 82 and John 10.
The Throne Room of God To be in His presence will we ever be worthy? To step outside of His creation into His presence to behold His glory. I cry out to Father God, please know that I love thy begotten Son... I'm finite and you are right. I cannot dream to see your face. But I yearn to feel and I have felt your all-encompassing embrace. You truly pick me up where I am found. To me, I'll never be worthy of a crown, yet you made me in your image? To be like you, your likeness? I'm amazed by you and known by you... I just want to see your face. The way that you chase my sinful nature. Why me? Why us? Children by adoption or not... Stepchildren, no. Steps are what you walk on and you'll never tread on us. You are majestic and to some subjective, I know you are with me and speak with me. Your presence is overwhelming for you are in and through all things. My mind does not comprehend... But to know the one true God... I would love to ascend. To worship you for eternity to bask in your warm existence. To see your shining face... To feel your embrace... I already have. As I have said, you are no stranger to me you put your arms around me. On the daily. You truly hold the world in your hands and from there I glance into the veil to see that you were always here. You let go of our hands so that we may grow? To be like thee you have already told... In thy image and likeness. To behold the grace to see your face... To some unfathomable, to me, attainable. To look into your eyes, to see your very smile... You are relatable, you are reliable. Because you made me like unto thee. To be a King... I cast my crown before your feet... 'I'm not worthy,' I'd say... To be a joint heir with Christ... But you see me for me and I am a child of God. By Bradley J. Copeland
If no other gods exist, why did Jesus call us gods? Was he lying? Psalms 82:1,6 1 God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods. 6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. John 10:31-36 31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. 32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? 33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. 34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? 35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; 36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
If you aren't LDS, then your the ones Jesus said in New Testament, "there shall be many that attempt to enter by some other way not appointed by Christ, but be rejected saying, "but Lord did we not in thy name do many great works", and Jesus will say to them, depart from me ye workers of iniquity for I have never known thee.
One Creator God? I havent read that? Uhm, should i reRead the Book of Prophet Isaiah Or perhaps You only coined that word One Creator God I HAVENT READ PROPHET ISAIAH MENTIONED THE WORD "ONE CREATOR GOD"
To attempt to determine God from scripture is akin to a blind man attempting to imagine the sun by what he is told. Jesus said, "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life. I receive not honour from men. But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you." John 5: 39-42 Jesus Christ is real, he lives in heaven, not in the Bible. The Bible is someone elses testimony and recollection of God. What is yours? Have you one of your own? When did God know you? If so, why always go to scripture to speak of God if you know him and he you? The reason you can't speak of a God whom you know is that you don't know him. So you rely on another. How are you different from the five unwise virgins who had no oil for their lamps and had to seek elsewhere?
The verse you cited is a rebuke by Jesus to Jewish leaders who thought that their wisdom and adherence to the Law made them worthy in God’s eyes. Jesus’ rebuke is not of reliance upon scripture, but on the Jewish leaders’ egos regarding their knowledge of scripture. Contrast that with the dozens of verses about the importance of scripture. Did not the New Testament Christians constantly refer back to scriptures that predated them by centuries, and yet you are saying that we can’t rely on anything other than personal testimony? “[ALL] Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.”
@@BNichols021 According to Jesus, they thought the scriptures gave them eternal life. As such, they rejected him and therefore the scriptures as well because the scriptures testify of him. So said he, they have not the love of God in them. In point, there is no God, salvation, or authority in scriptures. Scriptures are for the "man of God." But they do not make you a man of God. One is made a man of God by the conversion of spirit, baptism, faith in Jesus Christ, repentance, and receiving the Holy Ghost by one in authority. This is not accomplished thru scripture. This is why traditional Christianity is dead, and the purpose of the restoration by God thru Joseph Smith. The varied opinions of men are insufficient to eclipse the will of God or stay his hand. I pray that God will bless you with his spirit to know if this is his work.
@@Mik-ha-El The world rejected God. The scriptures are a remnant in testimony to that fact. The fact that he lives and the fate of the world hangs in the balance. There is no authority in scripture.
@@BNichols021 Exactly, I would just add to that the fact that grammatically; ἐραυνᾶτε should be taken as a command by the Lord. In that same verse Jesus goes on to say "It is these that testify of me." If anything the Lord was rebuking their understanding, not the Scriptures. As, His whole gripe was that "for you do not believe Him whom He sent." It's nothing but a fallacy of bifurcation; to pit the living Word and the written word at odds with one another. Jesus; never did this, the Bible never does this and neither should we.
Can a baby grow up and become an adult? I again am only one and the Father of my children..But that does not mean that there cannot be more fathers...The same is true with our heavenly Father he is only one and the Father of my spirit that does not mean that there cannot be more fathers in heaven to .. Do not be having other God's before me like Golden calves. Golden calves statues Gods that do not have any body parts or passions Gods that are made by hand reather that listening to our heavenly Father spirit and growing up and becoming more like he is . . .. To bring glory to his name. . Know that I know that Jesus is lord the savior of the whole world. Now noting that I know that God our eternal heavenly Father had some of his children on this side of the world like Mormon Alma Abinidi Nephi and meny others .
The point is to bring more glory to our heavenly Father by becoming more like him . ..There is no other Father beside me once I am the Father of my children. Use some commen sense?
The original Mormons: Joseph Smith Jr. (December 23, 1805 - June 27, 1844) a good looking and intelligent young man from a penniless upstate New York family; professional buried treasure hunter. Oliver H. P. Cowdery (October 3, 1806 - March 3, 1850) a school teacher who boarded with the Smith family David Whitmer (January 7, 1805 - January 25, 1888) farmer; friend of Oliver Cowdery Martin Harris (May 18, 1783 - July 10, 1875) prosperous farmer; employer of Joseph Smith Sr. the Smith family Joseph Smith Sr. (July 12, 1771 - September 14, 1840) father of Joseph Smith Jr. Emma Hale Smith Bidamon (July 10, 1804 - April 30, 1879) wife of Joseph Smith Jr Hyrum Smith (February 9, 1800 - June 27, 1844) brother of Joseph Smith Jr Samuel Harrison Smith (13 March 1808 - 30 July 1844) brother of Joseph Smith Jr. the Whitmer family Jacob Whitmer (February 2, 1800 - April 21, 1856) brother of David Whitmer John Whitmer (August 27, 1802 - July 11, 1878) brother of David Whitmer Christian Whitmer (January 18, 1798 - November 27, 1835) brother of David Whitmer Peter Whitmer Jr. (September 27, 1809 - September 22, 1836) brother of David Whitmer Hiram Page (c. 1800-August 12, 1852) brother in law of David Whitmer Apparently after 1826, Joseph Smith Jr realized that his fraudulent treasure hunting career was a failure and he began thinking about a career as a religious leader and false prophet. In 1829, Smith met poor school teacher Cowdery and they put together a book based on the King James Bible, View of the Hebrews published in 1823 by Ethan Smith (no relation, although he was an acquaintance of Cowdery) and their own imagination. Whitmer and his family joined the conspiracy probably in hope of becoming religious leaders and escaping a hard life of farming. Harris was conned into providing the money. So basically the foundation of Mormonism was the beauty (Smith) the brains (Cowdery) the money (Harris) and the Whitmers who jumped on the bandwagon. Three very young, 25 year old, men and one middle aged man who paid the bills, along with most of the Smith and Whitmer families, founded Mormonism. The Book of Mormon went on sale March 26, 1830. The LDS church opened for business in Smith’s home on April 6, 1830. In 1835 Smith and Cowdery published a sequel to the Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants. Since then various other scriptures have been published, such as the Pearl of Great Price, and Mormon prophets and prophecies continue to this day. Mormonism broke up into competing sects after the death of Smith.
You are not quoting from the doctrine/scripture of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. That doctrine/scripture is the Standard Works of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Doctrine & Covenants/Introduction: “The book of Doctrine and Covenants is one of the standard works of the Church in company with the Holy Bible, the Book of Mormon, and the Pearl of Great Price.” “Dallin H. Oaks explains: "Revelations from God ... are not constant. We believe in continuing revelation, not continuous revelation. We are often left to work out problems without the dictation or specific direction of the Spirit."[14] Thus, the current prophet can clarify, correct or change any previous teachings.[15] However, once a doctrine has been accepted by the church by "common consent", it becomes part of the standard works, and then takes precedence over any other revelation.[16] Members of the LDS church only consider themselves bound by doctrine found in the standard works.[17]” [Wikipedia/Revelation in Mormonism/Inspired vs. infallible] You are quoting from the King Follett Sermon which is a questionable document. “A full, verbatim account of the speech does not exist, but notes exist, taken contemporaneously, by Thomas Bullock (using a type of personal shorthand), William Clayton (writing in longhand), and Willard Richards (taking "minute"-style notes of major elements of the speech).[3] Wilford Woodruff also took extensive contemporaneous notes and transferred the notes to his journal with editorializations, but his original notes were not preserved.[3] One author (Searle) estimates that the surviving notes of the sermon contain roughly 30% of the words of the actual address, but that together, they are likely nearly topically complete.[4]” [Wikipedia/King Follett Discourse/Text] Doctrine & Covenants 132: 20 “Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them.” This was the eternal state of those who are found worthy of exaltation. It does not say “God” meaning deity but says “god” which is consistent with the Authorized King James Version of the Bible which we consider as scripture. Both the (AKJV) Bible and LDS doctrine/scripture recognize deity by capitalizing the first letter (God, Jesus, Christ, Comforter, Holy Ghost, etc.). Psalm 82:6 “I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.” John 10:34 (AKJV) “Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?” God does love Mormons and people of all religions because they are his children! Hebrews 12:9 (AKJV) “Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?”
That is our doctrine- that doctrine is in our temples. I don't know about the validity of King follet, but the doctrine is in our temple and Sunday school.
Well done 👍 The Holy Spirit will speak to those with open hearts and minds. For those who choose to follow false prophet joseph smith eternity is a long time.
That's wrong. Evangelicals tend to be very keen on baptism. As a Catholic, many Evangelicals and Mormons, see us as an absolute abomination of a church. Much more dialogue is needed, to bring us Christians together, and understand one another. Disparaging one another from ignorance, and prejudice really doesn't help.
It’s definitely a obsession to become a God. What about women, can they become a Goddess with the same powers to create planets and whatever? Please reply. 🤔 Equal Rights, or possibly not fair ? Or is she only a object to bear billion’s of children? My gosh some of the children don’t turn out to be so good, what a headache you can get, children don’t, turn out to good.
Your calling out ‘ heresy’ is itself a testimony of the truthfulness of what God had revealed through Joseph Smith, likewise all the so called believers called what Jesus taught heresy; those were the believers as Jesus came to the believers like the restored Gospel was meant to be; just imagine the anomaly of what God would say to his Son returning from drinking the bitter cup, “well done, how was it? Ive never done that myself, you’re great, thanks” since your perspective is so limited by your creeds, you dont even think about the true nature of God by understanding Jesus and his relationship to his father; That cannot be a real relationship or a family where there is a son that has done more than his own father; there cant be a gospel and heaven where the children are not given the same opportunity to become what the Father has or is; this is where understanding the real character of God begins;
Are you trying to say there are no other Fathers . In this life or the next . .. is there really any limit to space . ? You know I have never read anywhere in the holy bible where Christ himself did any writing except for in the sand so who wrote the holy bible true teaches disciples prophets of God. If it is important to read the holy bible it is important to read the holy book of Mormon. .. You know there is no other Father beside me once I am the blood father of my children. Time for you and I to grow up more . This is weak understanding.....
You can’t just keep reiterating your beliefs. At some point you will have to engage with the other side of the argument. I would be happy to chat with you anytime about these issues. Please respond to the following Bible verses: John 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. (What did Jesus see the Father doing? Exactly what Jesus did.) Luke 2:52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man. (If Jesus is of the same substance as the Father then this contradicts Isaiah. Please explain what this means to you.) Romans 8:16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. 17 Now if we are children, then we are heirs-heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory. (If Jesus is the same substance as the Father why would he need to be an heir?) John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. (Are we supposed to be of the same substance as the Father? This clearly explains what God means when He says God is one in Isaiah.) Revelation 3:21 Those who are victorious will sit with me on my throne, just as I was victorious and sat with my Father on his throne. (Jesus sits on His Father’s throne after being victorious. Clearly Jesus (who is God) progressed in some way.) 2 Corinthians 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord. 1 John 3:2 Beloved, we are God’s children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is. Galatians 4:7 Now you are no longer a slave but God’s own child. And since you are his child, God has made you his heir. Revelation 21:7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son.
Greetings Robert. I will briefly respond to your Bible verses. First, let us keep in mind what LDS has to say about Jesus and what the Bible and Christianity has taught about Jesus for the last 2,000 years. In Mormonism Jesus did not always exist as God, nor did he share the same nature as the Father. Jesus was a sprit child of Elohim, along with Lucifer, i.e., Jesus and Lucifer were sprit-brothers. Eventually Jesus progressed to become a god. On the other hand, the Bible is quite explicit that Jesus always existed as God, he CREATED ALL things visible and invisible (including Lucifer and all matter), and is BEFORE ALL THINGS (including Lucifer and all matter). Jesus as God, took on an additional human nature. While Jesus walked on this Earth he was fully God and fully man. Even now, after his resurrection from the dead, “in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily” (Colossians 2:9). Jesus existed eternally as the God the Son along with God the Father, and was the Creator of all things, and took on a human nature: John 1:1-3, 14: “1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made….And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us.” Again, Jesus existed as God and took on a human nature, while still being fully God. Philippians 2:5-11: “5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, 6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. 9 Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.” Colossians 1:15-17: “15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16 For by him ALL THINGS were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities-all things were created through him and for him. 17 And he is BEFORE all things, and in him all things hold together.” Let me now respond to your verses: “John 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. (What did Jesus see the Father doing? Exactly what Jesus did.)” I’m not too sure of your point here. Much of John chapter 5 has to do with Jesus being equal to God the Father. Jesus even goes so far as to say, “The Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son, 23 that all may honor the Son, just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him” John 5:22-23. Do you worship Jesus? If not, then you are not honoring the Son “just as they honor the Father.” (Notice in Revelation chapter 5 Jesus is given the EXACT same worship as the Father in Revelation chapter 4). “Luke 2:52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man. (If Jesus is of the same substance as the Father then this contradicts Isaiah. Please explain what this means to you.)” Since Jesus is fully God, and there is only one God, Jesus is of the same substance as the Father. But remember, Jesus who existed eternally as God (see verses above), took on a human nature and grew in wisdom and knowledge as a man. “Romans 8:16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. 17 Now if we are children, then we are heirs-heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory. (If Jesus is the same substance as the Father why would he need to be an heir?)” The Son Created and was before all things. It is after he took on an additional human nature that he became the heir of all things AS the God-man. This is what Philippians 2:5-11 is getting at. Even though Jesus existed in the form of God, he humbled himself. After he humbled himself and went willingly to the cross to die, then, “Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.” Hebrews 1:1-4 says something similar (notice Jesus is the “exact imprint of his (God’s) nature,” and the creator (see also the rest of the chapter)” “1 Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world. 3 He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 having become as much superior to angels as the name he has inherited is more excellent than theirs.” “John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. (Are we supposed to be of the same substance as the Father? This clearly explains what God means when He says God is one in Isaiah.)” Context determines meaning. The context for Isaiah chapters 40-48 is completely different from that of John 17. Jesus is simply praying for unity among his believers. Since the Father has always been God and did not progress to godhead, it is impossible for any created being to “be of the same substance as the Father.” “Revelation 3:21 Those who are victorious will sit with me on my throne, just as I was victorious and sat with my Father on his throne. (Jesus sits on His Father’s throne after being victorious. Clearly Jesus (who is God) progressed in some way.)” As being fully God, Jesus did not progress. After taking on a human nature, while still being fully God, Jesus was exalted. See my comments on Romans 8:16 above. “2 Corinthians 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.” Yes, as Christians our goal is the be transformed by the renewing of our mind, etc., and be conformed to the image of Jesus Christ. But there is ALWAYS a distinction between the one eternal Creator (Isaiah 44:24, John 1:1-3, Colossians 1:15-17), and his creatures. “1 John 3:2 Beloved, we are God’s children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is.” (Same as above). “Galatians 4:7 Now you are no longer a slave but God’s own child. And since you are his child, God has made you his heir. Revelation 21:7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son.” As far as I know in Mormonism we are all God’s spirit-children. However, apart from Jesus some people are children of wrath, and/or of their Father, the devil. Not literally Satan’s children. But because that is who they follow. We only become a child of God by adoption: Ephesians 2:1-4: “And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience- 3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature CHILDREN OF WRATH, like the rest of mankind.” John 8:44: “You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires.” Romans 8:15: “For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, ‘Abba! Father!’” Ephesians 1:5-6: “he predestined us for adoption through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved.” John 1:12-13: “But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.” Robert, although I tried to be as brief as I can, I hope this helps.
@@hoover8699 I agree that John Chapter 5 is largely about how Jesus and God are one in purpose not one in substance. 17 In his defense Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working.” (If He is the same person as God the Father, why make the distinction here?) 18…but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God. (The Jewish leaders understood that Jesus wasn’t calling Himself God the Father. He was saying He was separate.) 19 Jesus gave them this answer: “Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does. (There are two individuals here. The observer and the observed.) 31 “If I testify about myself, my testimony is not true. … 37 And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. (If God and Jesus are of one substance then Jesus would be testifying of Himself and His testimony would not be true! Honestly, I don’t understand how much clearer the Bible can be. Jesus can’t testify of Himself. Instead His Father who is a separate being testifies of Him.) Thanks for your response I will work through the verses you provided.
@@robertrussell7468 Robert, In reference to John 5:17 you said, “(If He is the same person as God the Father, why make the distinction here?)” Jesus is NOT the same person as the Father. Christians do not believe this. If you know what Christianity has taught and teaches about the Trinity - there is one and only one God by nature and there are three persons in the Trinity. The Father is God. The Son is God. The Holy Spirit is God. The Father is not the Son. The Son is not the Spirit, etc. Yet there are not three gods, but one. You said, “18…but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.(The Jewish leaders understood that Jesus wasn’t calling Himself God the Father. He was saying He was separate.) 19 Jesus gave them this answer: “Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does. (There are two individuals here. The observer and the observed.)” I completely agree that there are two individuals here, the Father and the Son. But as I mentioned, Jesus is going on to explain how and why he is equal with God - he does whatever the Father does. He raises the dead. He gives life. He is judge. And also as mentioned, there is one and only one creator (Isaiah 44:24: "I am the Lord, who made all things, who ALONE stretched out the heavens, who spread out the earth BY MYSELF”), and Jesus is the creator of all things, see John 1:1-3, Colossians 1:15-17 (including Lucifer). You said, 31 “If I testify about myself, my testimony is not true. … 37 And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. (If God and Jesus are of one substance then Jesus would be testifying of Himself and His testimony would not be true! Honestly, I don’t understand how much clearer the Bible can be. Jesus can’t testify of Himself. Instead His Father who is a separate being testifies of Him.)” Remember in my first response that I began by explaining how the Bible informs us that even though Jesus has always existed as God, he took on a human nature. Jesus lived his life as a good Jewish boy. He worshiped the Father and grew in knowledge. He was always obedient to his Father and did not go off and do his own thing. Hence, Jesus counted on the testimony of his Father. Also, hence, why he said, “the Son can do nothing by himself.” Many Muslims stop right there and say, “See. Jesus can’t be God because he said he can do nothing by himself. Of course if we continue to read, Jesus explains what he meant, “he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.” Yes, Jesus, the Son is not same person as the Father. But this does not mean they are separate beings. We must examine not only this passage in its context, but with the Bible as a whole. “Thanks for your response I will work through the verses you provided.” You are welcome. I look forward to your response
@@hoover8699 Hang on. Now I am confused. What do you believe about the nature of God? Do you agree with the Nicene Creed? The Nicene Creed says that Jesus is of the same substance or essence as the Father. If you don’t believe that then what is the difference between us? Are you a modalist?
@@robertrussell7468 Yes I agree with the creeds. I thought I was clear when I said above, "Jesus is NOT the same person as the Father. Christians do not believe this. If you know what Christianity has taught and teaches about the Trinity - there is one and only one God by nature and there are three persons in the Trinity. The Father is God. The Son is God. The Holy Spirit is God. The Father is not the Son. The Son is not the Spirit, etc. Yet there are not three gods, but one." Does this help?
Listen to me the essence of life is growth and to become and to overcome.. A baby can grow up and become an adult.we can grow up and become more like Christ . This guy is so full of garbage that it is not funny. I am only one and the Father of my children that does not mean that there cannot be more fathers. I am forever and ever the blood father of my children.again that does not mean that there cannot be more fathers. The same is true with our heavenly parents. .
I am happy you love reading the holy bible. Now you need to read the holy Book of Mormon and know that God our heavenly Father did have some of his children on this side of the world.
Oh good gravy.there is no snow flake that is the same. There is not one human being that is the same. . You know that once I obayed the beautiful law of being a Father and having children. I am only one and the blood father of my children. I will forever and forever be the blood father of my children. Again I am only one and the Father of my children.that does not mean that there cannot be more fathers. The same is true with our heavenly Father. The Father of spirit before we got our body . Let's grow up and use some commen sense. I am happy you read the holy bible. Will you now read the holy book of Mormon. ??
Oh How Beautiful That Couplet of Prophet Lorenzo Snow I Love it !!! Did Not Jesus Christ Says it! Did not the Original Twelve Apostles Teacheth it Chief Apostle Peter had Pronounced it too ! Even Quoting the Old Testament for it
These two men do not realize the Bible is messed up. They are confused. They think becoming like God is demeaning God. What righteous father on Earth doesn't want their children to become like them?
Amen. Thank you for this video. ❤ Grateful former Mormon here. There is only One God as Isaiah Taught. Father ,Son, Holy Spirit.
There really is no way around it. Any reframing of these chapters in Isaiah would rob the passages of the weight they were intended to carry. "There were no gods before me.... except all of those gods who are farther progressed than myself. But there will be none after me!... except all those that will also be exalted and progress to eternity.... But I am still most high... in this universe. But nonetheless, worship me and me alone, because I have ultimate authority... that was given to me by another."
Joseph Smith rewrote the book of Isaiah. It’s documented historical church { LDS } history. When the truth is revealed, many more will leave the organization of the LDS manmade religion. Read a regular bought KJV Bible, and compare the chapter of Isaiah with the chapter of Isaiah from your Mormon religious church doctrine. You will see what JS did
I am LDS. I believe the book of Isaiah to be true. How do you explain Jesus who claims to be the Son of God (now there are two Gods) and who is clearly a separate individual from God? If you take Isaiah seriously how can you justify being a Christian?
@@robertrussell7468 It is explained by God being comprised of both the Father and the Son (two members of the triune Godhead, all inseparable from one another). There is no logical contradiction here. “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”
@@robertrussell7468 How do you explain the presence of deutero and trito Isaiah in the Book of Mormon?! The very idea of it being there is anachronistic and shuts the door on the B of M being anything other than 19th century fiction, written by Joseph Smith. His fingerprints are all over it, including his misguided and wrong 19th century ideas.
@@BNichols021 How do you understand Acts 7:55-56 But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God. “Look,” he said, “I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.” (Acts 7:55-56)
Here is a little more context for John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word,and the Word was with God,and the Word was God. 2 He was WITH God in the beginning.
Being with God in the beginning is different than being God. We believe Jesus is God as part of the Godhead. We also believe what the Bible teaches that from the beginning Jesus was a separate being from God who was with God.
Great job!! This was the reason for me to leave the Mormon church, you must put God first in all things, before family, husband, etc. This is blasphemy against God!! It cannot be more proven than in Joseph Smith's writings!! The Mormon church deceives its members, this is not talked about or presented to new members!
You don't leave your family!
This is such a basic truth that even the light of nature and man's conscience testify that there is only one true God!
I agree. The Bible is crystal clear that Jesus and God are one in purpose not one in substance.
Take John 5 for an example:
17 In his defense Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working.”
(If He is the same person as God the Father, why make the distinction here?)
18…but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.
(The Jewish leaders understood that Jesus wasn’t calling Himself God the Father. He was saying He was separate.)
19 Jesus gave them this answer: “Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.
(There are two individuals here. The observer and the observed.)
31 “If I testify about myself, my testimony is not true.
…
37 And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me.
(If God and Jesus are of one substance then Jesus would be testifying of Himself and His testimony would not be true! Honestly, I don’t understand how much clearer the Bible can be. Jesus can’t testify of Himself. Instead His Father who is a separate being testifies of Him.)
Amen 🙏
@@robertrussell7468 The Bible is clear that there is only one God.
Also clear, each is called God in the Bible; Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
One being. Three distinct persons. You may like it, or not. But, that's what the Bible clearly simply does say. Would you like to see the verses? You may already know them.
Only our Father in Heaven has the power to open the minds of those who believe in a false gospel, a false doctrine, and a different God/Jesus that is not Biblical.
All we can do is share the truth, pray that some of the seeds we sew will fall on fertile soil, and let God give the increase. I have spoken on Isaiah many times with Mormons and no matter how it is discussed, they do not believe.
What is even more interesting is the Book of Mormon says the same thing, that there is no other God! I thought Mormonism was shaped around the Book of Mormon, but in reality, it is built around all these "doctrines" and "revelations" given by their proclaimed prophets.
The Lord God has caused these people who believe in Mormonism to have their minds seared with a hot iron, being enamored, disillusioned to a false doctrine, to a gospel that cannot save.
Even when I challenge Mormons to review Freemasonry, it's origins and history, including all their doctrines, ordinances, oaths, and compare them to the Mormon temple ceremony, they either refuse to research the truth, or flat out state there is no similarities between Freemasonry with Mormonism, even though we can show definitively when Joseph Smith Jr became involved with Freemasonry and right after, the temple ordinances were created.
It doesn't matter how much physical proof of texts, general conference talks, journal entries, news paper editorials of the time, etc, we show, most Mormons would rather stick their heads in the sand instead of doing what God has commanded all of us to do, and that is, to TEST the prophets, and TEST all teachings with Scripture (Bible).
We can only warn those who are caught up in Mormonism and pray for them, and hope they will find their way out of this great deception that Satan has created.
They won't because we have been taught a false dichotomy out whole lives- that because the book of Mormon is true, it is ALL TRUE. And that because of that, we have an understanding of God. And if anyone preaches against that, it feels VERY threatening to their world view and belief even in God at all....
I know, because I was raised generational Mormon, did all the things, and recently left.
We are not taught to think with our rational minds.
I'm finding some similar thought patterns in greater Christian denominations and religions.
To be clear, I have I do believe in God and Jesus, particularly Jesus, because my inner knowing there is A God is just there and so strong.
I've also tested new age ideologies in the past and found them to be false. They don't provide fruit. They provide confusion.
So far, believing in the very simple gospel of Jesus' grace for me, his sacrifice, and faith...believing and receiving him has given me the most clear mind and sound results. Along with thinking for myself.
joseph smith "i will take away the veil" while putting the veil in place. "only in christ is the veil taken away" God was manifested in the flesh.
The temple veil was Torn at his Crucifixion. Mormons put it back. God literally became human, and Jesus was the absolutely unique Incarnation.This passes rational understanding and is a matter of faith and the great mystery of faith, for 2000+ years. The preaching of the Good News in the early days was simple. Mormons are just so wrong, but I respect thier very different beliefs, but they DO need to learn about mainstream Christiany IF they demand to be considered Christian.
Thank you so much, this video it's truly a blessing. Gives a great insight on how to talk to LDS missionaries and loved ones on key issues.
The trial of the false gods! Man, these beautiful self-revelations of God; never get old. Keep up the great work, brothers. Soli Deo Gloria!
I like your channel. Disillusioned Mormon here. I just wonder why evangelicals go to so much trouble about Joseph’s doctrines about the nature of God and not the fact that he was a liar, fraud and scoundrel. If we know the latter who cares about the former? It’s like you are legitimizing him as a bona fide theologian instead of a scam artist. That’s how this heartbroken 5th generation descendent of polygamist (adulterous!) Mormon ancestors feels anyway. I think the true nature of Joseph Smith is how to get to LDS. They have to start completely over. At least I did. Mormons are just not that theological. It’s more of a culture than a religion. They just go through motions and say religious sounding things. It’s about the church, not God.
Hi Janice!
That is actually intentional on our part (for a few reasons).
Most people watching our videos already know that Joseph is a fraud. What they need to realize is that Christianity is a viable option! A lot of Mormons tend to assume that Mormonism = better Christianity; the LDS Church ties Christianity to the mast of the sinking ship of Mormonism so that when people leave the LDS Church, they think that Christianity is ALSO a fraud.
We want to SHOW people that Mormonism ≠ Christianity-that the LDS Church actually teaches things CONTRARY to the Bible, and that a Christian is not simply a "Mormon lite," but a person of an entirely different religion.
Second - if we only destroy Mormonism by focusing on internal problems/inconsistencies, that doesn't really help people before God! They STILL stand condemned and in need of salvation. But if the very thing that shattered Mormonism for someone IS the Bible, then learning true things about the nature of the unchanging and uncreated God and realizing the hope in of the Gospel of Grace can be the very catalyst that compels someone to ditch Mormonism. In that way, someone may leave Mormonism...into right and GENUINE knowledge of God and eternal life.
I hope that helps explain a bit! This video might actually be interesting for you: th-cam.com/video/KKizsWlL5rA/w-d-xo.html
This DOES focus a bit more on the internal inconsistencies with the Gold Plates story.
Hi Janice. Are you a Christian? I have a genuine question for former Mormons. Sometimes I hear that part of the reason people leave the church is because Joseph Smith pressured underage girls into marrying him.
I am not at all trying to defend what he did but I am very curious about those who become Christians. What do you think about Old Testament prophets like Moses, Joshua and Samuel telling Israel that God told them to kill everyone, men, women and children in a given city?
Or how do you feel about Abraham and Jacob having children with concubines who clearly had no choice in the matter?
Again I am not trying to defend Joseph Smith. I genuinely want to better understand why for christians one is okay and the other is not.
@@robertrussell7468yes I am Christian. We love our new little Bible church. We are learning the Bible! It is all Jesus all the time.
@@GLMhank you! Yes I know when people leave the Mormon Church many tend to leave God too. So sad. I see what you are trying to do. It is such a tangled mess. For my husband and I it was decades ago when we began to see that there was never enough Jesus and Jesus was never enough there. So we did come to Jesus while still participating but it was torture. It us a long time to break free. And discovering the horrid history and legacy of the church really put us over the edge. Now we are going to a little Bible church nearby we just love and are learning so much. Keep up the good work. We have wanted to visit your church but it’s at the same time as this one and we hate to miss! So grateful for all the resources available.
@@GLMMy husband adds that when you engage with true blue Mormons regarding things like the trinity or an uncreated Jesus it just bounces off because they believe they have God’s priesthood/authority and everything their leaders say is true and stuff they don’t talk about doesn’t matter. This is practically impossible to penetrate. We wonder who these Mormons are you are talking about who see Joseph Smith was a fraud but who are still in the church. We don’t know any of those! The closest are those who just refuse to confront those early problems. They won’t even read the church’s own essays. Another thing that really added to our leaving was how the church is going left morally and politically. Members may still be conservative but the leadership is not, tho this will be denied. You have to look at what they do more than what they may say. We could write a book on how it has changed. My husband was Elder Rasband’s mission companion and Rasband recently told him the church is evolving on the gay issue, for example. Just trying to help. We pray every day our own kids and grandkids will see the light! Most of our big family is still in the church.
Do you guys ever street evangelize? I like in salt lake and would love to go with you guys to see how you guys do it.
Yeah - every week! Shoot me a message on facebook (facebook.com/leavingmormonism) OR email: glm@themissionutah.com
Keep up the great work!
But it is faith in Gods preserved word that I have problems with when I try to witness to the Mormons.
I was born into Mormonism and have seen it change and shift to fit the culture.
We have to have faith in the Bible that God purposefully preserved his word.
True. Most Mormons today would be horrified at what it was like to live in the old old o'McKay and Kimball days!!! Almost unrecognisable.
What is the title of that book??
Isaiah is damning to LdS claims on many levels. The very idea of Isaiah being quoted in the Book of Mormon is so problematic, especially the presence of deutero- and trito- Isaiah in its text. Anachronistic.
It's also damning to Christianity. Christians are just so racist against Jews they refuse to see it.
I see there is a deep distrust on the LDS towards the Bible. My husband had to open his LDS Gospel Library app on his phone just so he could read Revelations Chapter 1 even with a big bible in front of him. All becuase he wanted to see ALL the footnotes that pertained to that chapter. So he was not mislead by just the Bible. I am not sure which footnotes could be found for Isaiah 40-48.
This was excellent. Thank you for sticking to the context of Isaiah.
I can’t remember, but I think you mentioned something about God the Father being Elohim and Jesus being Lord/Jehovah. Please allow me to elaborate and note what the LDS Bible Dictionary has under the heading “God.” Besides stating that “there are three separate persons in the Godhead,” i.e., three separate gods, it says, “When one speaks of God, it is generally the Father who is referred to; that is, Elohim. All mankind are His children. The personage known as Jehovah in Old Testament times, and who is usually identified in the Old Testament as Lord (in small capitals), is the Son, known as Jesus Christ, and who is also a God” (emphasis mine). So, for LDS Jesus who is Jehovah/Lord in the Old Testament is a separate god from the Father who is Elohim. More specifically, according to LDS, Jehovah/Lord is not Elohim. With this in mind, let’s look at some Scripture and see not only what the Bible has to say in regards to there being more than one God, but also see if the LDS distinction of Jesus as Jehovah/Lord and the Father as Elohim can even work. Again, more specifically, is Jehovah/Lord a separate god from Elohim? Or is Jehovah/Lord Elohim?
Deuteronomy 4:35 To you it was shown, that you might know that the Lord (Jehovah) is God (Elohim); there is no other besides him.
Deut 4:39- know therefore today, and lay it to your heart, that the Lord (Jehovah) is God (Elohim) in heaven above and on the earth beneath; there is no other.
Deut 32:39 See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god (Elohim) beside me;
Jos 2:11 For the Lord (Jehovah) your God (Elohim), he is God (Elohim) in the heavens above and on the earth beneath.
Isa 37:20 So now, O Lord (Jehovah) our God (Elohim), save us from his hand, that all the kingdoms of the earth may know that you alone are the Lord (Jehovah)."
Isa 43:10-11"You are my witnesses," declares the Lord, "and my servant whom I have chosen, that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor shall there be any after me. I, I am the Lord, and besides me there is no savior.
Isa 44:6Thus says the Lord (Jehovah), the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: "I am the first and I am the last; besides me there is no god (Elohim).
Isa 45:5-6 I am the Lord (Jehovah), and there is no other, besides me there is no God (Elohim); I equip you, though you do not know me, that people may know, from the rising of the sun and from the west, that there is none besides me; I am the Lord(Jehovah), and there is no other.
Isa 45:18 For thus says the Lord (Jehovah), who created the heavens (he is God (Elohim)!), who formed the earth and made it (he established it; he did not create it empty, he formed it to be inhabited!): "I am the Lord (Jehovah), and there is no other.
Isa 45:21Declare and present your case; let them take counsel together! Who told this long ago? Who declared it of old? Was it not I, the Lord (Jehovah)? And there is no other god (el) besides me, a righteous God (Elohim) and a Savior; there is none besides me.
Jer 10:10 But the Lord (Jehovah) is the true God (Elohim); he is the living God (Elohim) and the everlasting King.
Joel 2:27 You shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the Lord (Jehovah) your God (Elohim) and there is none else.
Are the names in parentheses supposed to be the original Hebrew word?
@@robertrussell7468 Yes.
@@robertrussell7468 Robert, did you get a chance to follow up on the references I gave for the following? “More specifically, according to LDS, Jehovah/Lord is not Elohim. With this in mind, let’s look at some Scripture and see not only what the Bible has to say in regards to there being more than one God, but also see if the LDS distinction of Jesus as Jehovah/Lord and the Father as Elohim can even work. Again, more specifically, is Jehovah/Lord a separate god from Elohim? Or is Jehovah/Lord Elohim?” (See above).
Read the following and then tell me again that God doesn't share his glory with us:
John 17:20-23
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we
My Favorite Chapter in the Book of Prophet Isaiah Chapters 40 to 48
Hopefully you would include
Till to the last chapter of Isaiah
One question: who, then, was the God of the Old Testament?
What do Evangelical Christians get wrong about God?
They forget that there is a king of heaven and also a prince of heaven..
The King of Heaven put on a wedding feast for the marriage of his Son Jesus who is the Bridegroom.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR READING THAT EXCERPT FOR ALMOST 2MINUTES AND A HALF
If i Remember it right, the first time i read that quote/excerpt was from an anti-LDS literature am a new convert of 3yrs then
The Doctrine of the Godhead
And Exaltation is my First Question the moment the Elders are teaching me in our Home
As they say the First Discussion
Oh how i loved it
My mind were enlightened
Am only 13 years old that time
I know Joseph Smith is a Prophet of God
I Know Isaiah is A Prophet of God and
Prophet Isaiah Do Testifies of Jesus Christ !
This video of yours is the core
My favorite topic to share and defend with
Thank You So much
For Reading that Discourse
It Stremgthens more of my testimony
And reminded me How Great is Our God
And The Atoning Sacrifice of Jesus Christ
This Coming Sunday
Our Topic aa a Speaker
Is Our Conversion Story
How Great is Our God and Christ
I too used to think that the King Follett discourse was one of their greatest revelations ever enunciated. I held this view from about age 11 to 38. But now I know better. There is nothing in the sermon that is in accordance with the Bible. I can’t think of one citation that is given in sound principles of interpretation. Re examine it for yourself carefully while you study the passages quoted and you will understand that I’m not making this up.
Peace.
In the Book of kings, the northern and southern kingdoms have two kings with the same name at the same time kings Jeroham & Jeroham!
What's that all about?
@Robert Carlson There are many named Jeroham, but since you mentioned the book of Kings; did you mean Jehoram? If so, I can understand as things can get a bit tricky when it comes to everything Judean monarchy lol. To try and be concise: King Ahab (North) and King Jehoshaphat (South) both; had not only an alliance treaty but a friendship that evidently extended even to the naming of their sons. Jehoshaphat, before the battle of Ramoth-Gilead where Ahab was fatally wounded by an arrow; took the precaution to have his son installed as coregent on the throne of Judah. This is why Ahab's younger son Jehoram, began his reign as king of Israel in the second year of Jehoram, King of Judah. I hope this helps. Grace & peace.
If God is not a man then why would the resurrected Christ with an immortal body of flesh and bones (see Luke 24) be the express image of the person of the Father?
Hebrews 1:1-3
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
Joseph Smith is wrong? Yes according to ancient 2000-3000 years old texts which is our Bible. But what if he was a genuine prophet chosen by God for this age? That we're only have now as human beings developed far enough as to be ready for the final knowledge about God? Why are there no new revelations in 2000 years? Isn't God anymore a living God present in history like Jesus claimed Him to be? Or is God only to be found in those ancient texts? Everything that exists has a beginning. "God has always existed" is a statement that we have all heard. So once there was nothing at all, no universe, just emptiness, but God was there - but how did God exist/become God? Isn't that statement "God has always existed" like a no answer? What if Joseph Smith answered that troublesome question once and for all? Besides, didn't Smith believe in God and prayed to Him and worshipped only Him (Jehovah=Jesus) even after these revelations? Of course he did at least to my little knowledge of him.
But I do of course believe in a Creator of all. Jesus is the way, the truth and the life, in Him we can trust all through our life and eventual death. I'm waiting for his 2nd coming, the end to this wicked barbaric world, His world, which we human beings are just destroying both morally and physically.
That same JS also believed he would become a God after death. And those that followed him. Does a true prophet who believes and worships 1 God believe he will become a god? Let alone believe that the Father is not eternal. There are "gods" older than The Father
The Apostle Paul teaches the following:
1 Corinthians 8:4-6
4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.
5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
Here the Apostle Paul first declares the idols are nothing. Paul doesn't even consider them to be gods. Then He tells us that there is none other God but one. He then clarifies that there are gods many and lords many but to us there is but one God, the Father and one Lord Jesus Christ. Basically Paul understood that there are gods many and lords many but the God of our universe and the God with whom we have anything to do is one Godhead in the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. Jesus understood that there are gods many since he called those unto whom the word of God came 'gods' in Psalms 82 and John 10.
The Throne Room of God
To be in His presence will we ever be worthy?
To step outside of His creation into His presence to behold His glory.
I cry out to Father God, please know that I love thy begotten Son...
I'm finite and you are right.
I cannot dream to see your face.
But I yearn to feel and I have felt your all-encompassing embrace.
You truly pick me up where I am found.
To me, I'll never be worthy of a crown, yet you made me in your image?
To be like you, your likeness?
I'm amazed by you and known by you...
I just want to see your face. The way that you chase my sinful nature.
Why me? Why us? Children by adoption or not... Stepchildren, no. Steps are what you walk on and you'll never tread on us.
You are majestic and to some subjective, I know you are with me and speak with me.
Your presence is overwhelming for you are in and through all things. My mind does not comprehend... But to know the one true God... I would love to ascend.
To worship you for eternity to bask in your warm existence. To see your shining face... To feel your embrace... I already have.
As I have said, you are no stranger to me you put your arms around me. On the daily.
You truly hold the world in your hands and from there I glance into the veil to see that you were always here.
You let go of our hands so that we may grow? To be like thee you have already told...
In thy image and likeness.
To behold the grace to see your face...
To some unfathomable, to me, attainable.
To look into your eyes, to see your very smile...
You are relatable, you are reliable. Because you made me like unto thee.
To be a King... I cast my crown before your feet...
'I'm not worthy,' I'd say... To be a joint heir with Christ... But you see me for me and I am a child of God.
By Bradley J. Copeland
If no other gods exist, why did Jesus call us gods? Was he lying?
Psalms 82:1,6
1 God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.
6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
John 10:31-36
31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
Thank you guys ✝️🙏
If you aren't LDS, then your the ones Jesus said in New Testament, "there shall be many that attempt to enter by some other way not appointed by Christ, but be rejected saying, "but Lord did we not in thy name do many great works", and Jesus will say to them, depart from me ye workers of iniquity for I have never known thee.
Psalms 82:1 God standeth in the midst of the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.
I don’t think these two guys understand the discourse be the prophet Joseph Smith and definitely do not understand Isaiah writing.
One Creator God? I havent read that?
Uhm, should i reRead the Book of Prophet Isaiah
Or perhaps
You only coined that word One Creator God
I HAVENT READ PROPHET ISAIAH MENTIONED THE WORD "ONE CREATOR GOD"
HIS REWARD IS WITH HIM
To attempt to determine God from scripture is akin to a blind man attempting to imagine the sun by what he is told. Jesus said, "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life. I receive not honour from men. But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you." John 5: 39-42
Jesus Christ is real, he lives in heaven, not in the Bible. The Bible is someone elses testimony and recollection of God. What is yours? Have you one of your own? When did God know you? If so, why always go to scripture to speak of God if you know him and he you? The reason you can't speak of a God whom you know is that you don't know him. So you rely on another. How are you different from the five unwise virgins who had no oil for their lamps and had to seek elsewhere?
The verse you cited is a rebuke by Jesus to Jewish leaders who thought that their wisdom and adherence to the Law made them worthy in God’s eyes. Jesus’ rebuke is not of reliance upon scripture, but on the Jewish leaders’ egos regarding their knowledge of scripture.
Contrast that with the dozens of verses about the importance of scripture. Did not the New Testament Christians constantly refer back to scriptures that predated them by centuries, and yet you are saying that we can’t rely on anything other than personal testimony?
“[ALL] Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.”
The scripture is God’s method of revealing himself generally to the world.
@@BNichols021 According to Jesus, they thought the scriptures gave them eternal life. As such, they rejected him and therefore the scriptures as well because the scriptures testify of him. So said he, they have not the love of God in them.
In point, there is no God, salvation, or authority in scriptures. Scriptures are for the "man of God." But they do not make you a man of God. One is made a man of God by the conversion of spirit, baptism, faith in Jesus Christ, repentance, and receiving the Holy Ghost by one in authority. This is not accomplished thru scripture. This is why traditional Christianity is dead, and the purpose of the restoration by God thru Joseph Smith. The varied opinions of men are insufficient to eclipse the will of God or stay his hand. I pray that God will bless you with his spirit to know if this is his work.
@@Mik-ha-El The world rejected God. The scriptures are a remnant in testimony to that fact. The fact that he lives and the fate of the world hangs in the balance. There is no authority in scripture.
@@BNichols021 Exactly, I would just add to that the fact that grammatically; ἐραυνᾶτε should be taken as a command by the Lord. In that same verse Jesus goes on to say "It is these that testify of me." If anything the Lord was rebuking their understanding, not the Scriptures. As, His whole gripe was that "for you do not believe Him whom He sent." It's nothing but a fallacy of bifurcation; to pit the living Word and the written word at odds with one another. Jesus; never did this, the Bible never does this and neither should we.
Can a baby grow up and become an adult? I again am only one and the Father of my children..But that does not mean that there cannot be more fathers...The same is true with our heavenly Father he is only one and the Father of my spirit that does not mean that there cannot be more fathers in heaven to .. Do not be having other God's before me like Golden calves. Golden calves statues Gods that do not have any body parts or passions Gods that are made by hand reather that listening to our heavenly Father spirit and growing up and becoming more like he is . . .. To bring glory to his name. . Know that I know that Jesus is lord the savior of the whole world. Now noting that I know that God our eternal heavenly Father had some of his children on this side of the world like Mormon Alma Abinidi Nephi and meny others .
The point is to bring more glory to our heavenly Father by becoming more like him . ..There is no other Father beside me once I am the Father of my children. Use some commen sense?
The original Mormons:
Joseph Smith Jr. (December 23, 1805 - June 27, 1844)
a good looking and intelligent young man from a penniless upstate New York family; professional buried treasure hunter.
Oliver H. P. Cowdery (October 3, 1806 - March 3, 1850)
a school teacher who boarded with the Smith family
David Whitmer (January 7, 1805 - January 25, 1888)
farmer; friend of Oliver Cowdery
Martin Harris (May 18, 1783 - July 10, 1875)
prosperous farmer; employer of Joseph Smith Sr.
the Smith family
Joseph Smith Sr. (July 12, 1771 - September 14, 1840)
father of Joseph Smith Jr.
Emma Hale Smith Bidamon (July 10, 1804 - April 30, 1879)
wife of Joseph Smith Jr
Hyrum Smith (February 9, 1800 - June 27, 1844)
brother of Joseph Smith Jr
Samuel Harrison Smith (13 March 1808 - 30 July 1844)
brother of Joseph Smith Jr.
the Whitmer family
Jacob Whitmer (February 2, 1800 - April 21, 1856)
brother of David Whitmer
John Whitmer (August 27, 1802 - July 11, 1878)
brother of David Whitmer
Christian Whitmer (January 18, 1798 - November 27, 1835)
brother of David Whitmer
Peter Whitmer Jr. (September 27, 1809 - September 22, 1836)
brother of David Whitmer
Hiram Page (c. 1800-August 12, 1852)
brother in law of David Whitmer
Apparently after 1826, Joseph Smith Jr realized that his fraudulent treasure hunting career was a failure and he began thinking about a career as a religious leader and false prophet.
In 1829, Smith met poor school teacher Cowdery and they put together a book based on the King James Bible, View of the Hebrews published in 1823 by Ethan Smith (no relation, although he was an acquaintance of Cowdery) and their own imagination. Whitmer and his family joined the conspiracy probably in hope of becoming religious leaders and escaping a hard life of farming. Harris was conned into providing the money.
So basically the foundation of Mormonism was the beauty (Smith) the brains (Cowdery) the money (Harris) and the Whitmers who jumped on the bandwagon. Three very young, 25 year old, men and one middle aged man who paid the bills, along with most of the Smith and Whitmer families, founded Mormonism.
The Book of Mormon went on sale March 26, 1830. The LDS church opened for business in Smith’s home on April 6, 1830.
In 1835 Smith and Cowdery published a sequel to the Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants. Since then various other scriptures have been published, such as the Pearl of Great Price, and Mormon prophets and prophecies continue to this day. Mormonism broke up into competing sects after the death of Smith.
Thank you Professor Stein.
That is a bold face lie and you well know that.
@@lancefraijo8585 he;s only telling the truth.
Clearly this guy has not read the Bible . read revelation 3:21 Jesus says he was not always God. He says we can become a God.
You are not quoting from the doctrine/scripture of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. That doctrine/scripture is the Standard Works of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Doctrine & Covenants/Introduction: “The book of Doctrine and Covenants is one of the standard works of the Church in company with the Holy Bible, the Book of Mormon, and the Pearl of Great Price.” “Dallin H. Oaks explains: "Revelations from God ... are not constant. We believe in continuing revelation, not continuous revelation. We are often left to work out problems without the dictation or specific direction of the Spirit."[14] Thus, the current prophet can clarify, correct or change any previous teachings.[15] However, once a doctrine has been accepted by the church by "common consent", it becomes part of the standard works, and then takes precedence over any other revelation.[16] Members of the LDS church only consider themselves bound by doctrine found in the standard works.[17]” [Wikipedia/Revelation in Mormonism/Inspired vs. infallible]
You are quoting from the King Follett Sermon which is a questionable document. “A full, verbatim account of the speech does not exist, but notes exist, taken contemporaneously, by Thomas Bullock (using a type of personal shorthand), William Clayton (writing in longhand), and Willard Richards (taking "minute"-style notes of major elements of the speech).[3] Wilford Woodruff also took extensive contemporaneous notes and transferred the notes to his journal with editorializations, but his original notes were not preserved.[3] One author (Searle) estimates that the surviving notes of the sermon contain roughly 30% of the words of the actual address, but that together, they are likely nearly topically complete.[4]” [Wikipedia/King Follett Discourse/Text] Doctrine & Covenants 132: 20 “Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them.” This was the eternal state of those who are found worthy of exaltation. It does not say “God” meaning deity but says “god” which is consistent with the Authorized King James Version of the Bible which we consider as scripture. Both the (AKJV) Bible and LDS doctrine/scripture recognize deity by capitalizing the first letter (God, Jesus, Christ, Comforter, Holy Ghost, etc.). Psalm 82:6 “I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.” John 10:34 (AKJV) “Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?”
God does love Mormons and people of all religions because they are his children! Hebrews 12:9 (AKJV) “Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?”
That is our doctrine- that doctrine is in our temples. I don't know about the validity of King follet, but the doctrine is in our temple and Sunday school.
GODS ETERNAL UNCHANGING ATTRIBUTES
Well done 👍 The Holy Spirit will speak to those with open hearts and minds. For those who choose to follow false prophet joseph smith eternity is a long time.
Bible Numbers 23:19 God is not a man!
Wait? When did Evangelicals become Christian? As far as I understand, Evangelicals reject Baptism.
That's wrong. Evangelicals tend to be very keen on baptism. As a Catholic, many Evangelicals and Mormons, see us as an absolute abomination of a church. Much more dialogue is needed, to bring us Christians together, and understand one another. Disparaging one another from ignorance, and prejudice really doesn't help.
And they do celebrate halloween
It’s definitely a obsession to become a God. What about women, can they become a Goddess with the same powers to create planets and whatever? Please reply. 🤔 Equal Rights, or possibly not fair ? Or is she only a object to bear billion’s of children? My gosh some of the children don’t turn out to be so good, what a headache you can get, children don’t, turn out to good.
No they become brood mothers just like blacks couldn't become gods until they changed the rules.
Numbers 23:19 God is not a man!
FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE EARTH
Also Jesus was a spirit before coming to Earth! Jehovah is Christ! These men are confused!
💯 💯 💯 ❤🙏 ✝️
These two are clueless. They go around and around and at the end they say nothing.
Your calling out ‘ heresy’ is itself a testimony of the truthfulness of what God had revealed through Joseph Smith, likewise all the so called believers called what Jesus taught heresy; those were the believers as Jesus came to the believers like the restored Gospel was meant to be; just imagine the anomaly of what God would say to his Son returning from drinking the bitter cup, “well done, how was it? Ive never done that myself, you’re great, thanks” since your perspective is so limited by your creeds, you dont even think about the true nature of God by understanding Jesus and his relationship to his father; That cannot be a real relationship or a family where there is a son that has done more than his own father; there cant be a gospel and heaven where the children are not given the same opportunity to become what the Father has or is; this is where understanding the real character of God begins;
Are you trying to say there are no other Fathers . In this life or the next . .. is there really any limit to space . ? You know I have never read anywhere in the holy bible where Christ himself did any writing except for in the sand so who wrote the holy bible true teaches disciples prophets of God. If it is important to read the holy bible it is important to read the holy book of Mormon. ..
You know there is no other Father beside me once I am the blood father of my children. Time for you and I to grow up more . This is weak understanding.....
The two of you are clueless. You can’t even understand the Bible.
You can’t just keep reiterating your beliefs. At some point you will have to engage with the other side of the argument. I would be happy to chat with you anytime about these issues.
Please respond to the following Bible verses:
John 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
(What did Jesus see the Father doing? Exactly what Jesus did.)
Luke 2:52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.
(If Jesus is of the same substance as the Father then this contradicts Isaiah. Please explain what this means to you.)
Romans 8:16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. 17 Now if we are children, then we are heirs-heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.
(If Jesus is the same substance as the Father why would he need to be an heir?)
John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
(Are we supposed to be of the same substance as the Father? This clearly explains what God means when He says God is one in Isaiah.)
Revelation 3:21 Those who are victorious will sit with me on my throne, just as I was victorious and sat with my Father on his throne.
(Jesus sits on His Father’s throne after being victorious. Clearly Jesus (who is God) progressed in some way.)
2 Corinthians 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.
1 John 3:2 Beloved, we are God’s children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is.
Galatians 4:7 Now you are no longer a slave but God’s own child. And since you are his child, God has made you his heir.
Revelation 21:7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son.
Greetings Robert. I will briefly respond to your Bible verses.
First, let us keep in mind what LDS has to say about Jesus and what the Bible and Christianity has taught about Jesus for the last 2,000 years. In Mormonism Jesus did not always exist as God, nor did he share the same nature as the Father. Jesus was a sprit child of Elohim, along with Lucifer, i.e., Jesus and Lucifer were sprit-brothers. Eventually Jesus progressed to become a god.
On the other hand, the Bible is quite explicit that Jesus always existed as God, he CREATED ALL things visible and invisible (including Lucifer and all matter), and is BEFORE ALL THINGS (including Lucifer and all matter). Jesus as God, took on an additional human nature. While Jesus walked on this Earth he was fully God and fully man. Even now, after his resurrection from the dead, “in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily” (Colossians 2:9).
Jesus existed eternally as the God the Son along with God the Father, and was the Creator of all things, and took on a human nature: John 1:1-3, 14: “1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made….And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us.”
Again, Jesus existed as God and took on a human nature, while still being fully God. Philippians 2:5-11: “5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, 6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. 9 Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”
Colossians 1:15-17: “15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16 For by him ALL THINGS were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities-all things were created through him and for him. 17 And he is BEFORE all things, and in him all things hold together.”
Let me now respond to your verses:
“John 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
(What did Jesus see the Father doing? Exactly what Jesus did.)” I’m not too sure of your point here. Much of John chapter 5 has to do with Jesus being equal to God the Father. Jesus even goes so far as to say, “The Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son, 23 that all may honor the Son, just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him” John 5:22-23. Do you worship Jesus? If not, then you are not honoring the Son “just as they honor the Father.” (Notice in Revelation chapter 5 Jesus is given the EXACT same worship as the Father in Revelation chapter 4).
“Luke 2:52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.
(If Jesus is of the same substance as the Father then this contradicts Isaiah. Please explain what this means to you.)” Since Jesus is fully God, and there is only one God, Jesus is of the same substance as the Father. But remember, Jesus who existed eternally as God (see verses above), took on a human nature and grew in wisdom and knowledge as a man.
“Romans 8:16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. 17 Now if we are children, then we are heirs-heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.
(If Jesus is the same substance as the Father why would he need to be an heir?)” The Son Created and was before all things. It is after he took on an additional human nature that he became the heir of all things AS the God-man. This is what Philippians 2:5-11 is getting at. Even though Jesus existed in the form of God, he humbled himself. After he humbled himself and went willingly to the cross to die, then, “Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.” Hebrews 1:1-4 says something similar (notice Jesus is the “exact imprint of his (God’s) nature,” and the creator (see also the rest of the chapter)”
“1 Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world. 3 He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 having become as much superior to angels as the name he has inherited is more excellent than theirs.”
“John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
(Are we supposed to be of the same substance as the Father? This clearly explains what God means when He says God is one in Isaiah.)” Context determines meaning. The context for Isaiah chapters 40-48 is completely different from that of John 17. Jesus is simply praying for unity among his believers. Since the Father has always been God and did not progress to godhead, it is impossible for any created being to “be of the same substance as the Father.”
“Revelation 3:21 Those who are victorious will sit with me on my throne, just as I was victorious and sat with my Father on his throne. (Jesus sits on His Father’s throne after being victorious. Clearly Jesus (who is God) progressed in some way.)” As being fully God, Jesus did not progress. After taking on a human nature, while still being fully God, Jesus was exalted. See my comments on Romans 8:16 above.
“2 Corinthians 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.” Yes, as Christians our goal is the be transformed by the renewing of our mind, etc., and be conformed to the image of Jesus Christ. But there is ALWAYS a distinction between the one eternal Creator (Isaiah 44:24, John 1:1-3, Colossians 1:15-17), and his creatures.
“1 John 3:2 Beloved, we are God’s children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is.” (Same as above).
“Galatians 4:7 Now you are no longer a slave but God’s own child. And since you are his child, God has made you his heir.
Revelation 21:7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son.” As far as I know in Mormonism we are all God’s spirit-children. However, apart from Jesus some people are children of wrath, and/or of their Father, the devil. Not literally Satan’s children. But because that is who they follow. We only become a child of God by adoption:
Ephesians 2:1-4: “And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience- 3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature CHILDREN OF WRATH, like the rest of mankind.”
John 8:44: “You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires.”
Romans 8:15: “For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, ‘Abba! Father!’”
Ephesians 1:5-6: “he predestined us for adoption through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved.”
John 1:12-13: “But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.”
Robert, although I tried to be as brief as I can, I hope this helps.
@@hoover8699 I agree that John Chapter 5 is largely about how Jesus and God are one in purpose not one in substance.
17 In his defense Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working.”
(If He is the same person as God the Father, why make the distinction here?)
18…but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.
(The Jewish leaders understood that Jesus wasn’t calling Himself God the Father. He was saying He was separate.)
19 Jesus gave them this answer: “Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.
(There are two individuals here. The observer and the observed.)
31 “If I testify about myself, my testimony is not true.
…
37 And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me.
(If God and Jesus are of one substance then Jesus would be testifying of Himself and His testimony would not be true! Honestly, I don’t understand how much clearer the Bible can be. Jesus can’t testify of Himself. Instead His Father who is a separate being testifies of Him.)
Thanks for your response I will work through the verses you provided.
@@robertrussell7468
Robert,
In reference to John 5:17 you said, “(If He is the same person as God the Father, why make the distinction here?)” Jesus is NOT the same person as the Father. Christians do not believe this. If you know what Christianity has taught and teaches about the Trinity - there is one and only one God by nature and there are three persons in the Trinity. The Father is God. The Son is God. The Holy Spirit is God. The Father is not the Son. The Son is not the Spirit, etc. Yet there are not three gods, but one.
You said, “18…but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.(The Jewish leaders understood that Jesus wasn’t calling Himself God the Father. He was saying He was separate.) 19 Jesus gave them this answer: “Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does. (There are two individuals here. The observer and the observed.)” I completely agree that there are two individuals here, the Father and the Son. But as I mentioned, Jesus is going on to explain how and why he is equal with God - he does whatever the Father does. He raises the dead. He gives life. He is judge. And also as mentioned, there is one and only one creator (Isaiah 44:24: "I am the Lord, who made all things, who ALONE stretched out the heavens, who spread out the earth BY MYSELF”), and Jesus is the creator of all things, see John 1:1-3, Colossians 1:15-17 (including Lucifer).
You said, 31 “If I testify about myself, my testimony is not true. … 37 And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. (If God and Jesus are of one substance then Jesus would be testifying of Himself and His testimony would not be true! Honestly, I don’t understand how much clearer the Bible can be. Jesus can’t testify of Himself. Instead His Father who is a separate being testifies of Him.)” Remember in my first response that I began by explaining how the Bible informs us that even though Jesus has always existed as God, he took on a human nature. Jesus lived his life as a good Jewish boy. He worshiped the Father and grew in knowledge. He was always obedient to his Father and did not go off and do his own thing. Hence, Jesus counted on the testimony of his Father. Also, hence, why he said, “the Son can do nothing by himself.” Many Muslims stop right there and say, “See. Jesus can’t be God because he said he can do nothing by himself. Of course if we continue to read, Jesus explains what he meant, “he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.” Yes, Jesus, the Son is not same person as the Father. But this does not mean they are separate beings. We must examine not only this passage in its context, but with the Bible as a whole.
“Thanks for your response I will work through the verses you provided.”
You are welcome. I look forward to your response
@@hoover8699 Hang on. Now I am confused. What do you believe about the nature of God? Do you agree with the Nicene Creed? The Nicene Creed says that Jesus is of the same substance or essence as the Father. If you don’t believe that then what is the difference between us? Are you a modalist?
@@robertrussell7468 Yes I agree with the creeds. I thought I was clear when I said above, "Jesus is NOT the same person as the Father. Christians do not believe this. If you know what Christianity has taught and teaches about the Trinity - there is one and only one God by nature and there are three persons in the Trinity. The Father is God. The Son is God. The Holy Spirit is God. The Father is not the Son. The Son is not the Spirit, etc. Yet there are not three gods, but one." Does this help?
Listen to me the essence of life is growth and to become and to overcome.. A baby can grow up and become an adult.we can grow up and become more like Christ . This guy is so full of garbage that it is not funny. I am only one and the Father of my children that does not mean that there cannot be more fathers. I am forever and ever the blood father of my children.again that does not mean that there cannot be more fathers. The same is true with our heavenly parents. .
I am happy you love reading the holy bible. Now you need to read the holy Book of Mormon and know that God our heavenly Father did have some of his children on this side of the world.
Oh good gravy.there is no snow flake that is the same. There is not one human being that is the same. .
You know that once I obayed the beautiful law of being a Father and having children. I am only one and the blood father of my children. I will forever and forever be the blood father of my children. Again I am only one and the Father of my children.that does not mean that there cannot be more fathers. The same is true with our heavenly Father. The Father of spirit before we got our body . Let's grow up and use some commen sense. I am happy you read the holy bible. Will you now read the holy book of Mormon. ??
Concerned Christians believe that Jesus Christ's resurrected body of flesh and bones was temporary.
What?
Oh How Beautiful
That Couplet of Prophet Lorenzo Snow
I Love it !!!
Did Not Jesus Christ Says it!
Did not the Original Twelve Apostles Teacheth it
Chief Apostle Peter had Pronounced it too !
Even Quoting the Old Testament for it
Where?
I think you made it light
That word of Joseph Smith is the Core !!!
Is the Central Teachings of Jesus Christ
Wrong, the problem is they were worshipping wood and not recognizing who God really is. These two men are confused in the head!
These two men do not realize the Bible is messed up. They are confused. They think becoming like God is demeaning God. What righteous father on Earth doesn't want their children to become like them?
These two men are totally confused!
Numbers 23:19 God is not a man!