I think that Dogen "sounds like an actor", which makes sense, with his sketches. He isn't trying to talk naturally, he is trying to control his tempo to deliver his "jokes" and he pronounces the words as clearly as possible like an actor would do on a theater.
Exactly this. He used a style not everyone in Japan actually likes but is definitely a sign of really high control of the language and your expression. Listen to it for hours gets really tiring but it is absolutely impressive and many Japanese teachers would love to speak that way. That being said - he used bakabakashi (stupid) here in a really rude way. That absolutely doesn’t fit with his speaking style.
@@ambersimerly1803 It's the phrase japanese people says to compliment non japanese speakers each time they say a word no matter if it's good or not. It mean to be good at, or skilled at something.
The fact that Dogen was dragging on the analysis until this video was over at the end there made me expect something. But despite that expectation, that "Jouzu" still caught me off guard lol
@@madafaka8784 日本語上手 is typically what gets said to Japanese learners when natives hear them speak, even if their Japanese isn’t that good. That’s why Dogen calling himself 上手 isn’t really a compliment. If u watch more of his videos you’ll get more of the inside jokes, he’s got some really witty humour tbh It’s also the same 上手 as からかい上手の高木さん in case you were wondering
@@finallylegal2125 Thank you very much, that's a great explanation! I watched a bit and I agree. Had to pause sometimes to understand NGL, I'm not a 上手 yet.
dude that was the hardest I have laughed in a long time. I've never really watched many of Dogen's videos and I've not really gotten them before.. the humour... but holy shit was I dying of laughter from that
@@isaac4273 if im not mistaken that what native Japanese say to every foreigner that speak a little bit of Japanese. It’s a polite way to encourage you. For some foreigner that dont know that and how Japanese people are it’s a bit surprising and they dont know what to make of it. But now you know .
As a Japanese native speaker I would say Dogen’s vocab is just super rich, and he sounds really smart in general.(at least I can’t speak like him) Joey sounds mostly native and it’s impressive too! But they all speak in their unique ways and this shouldn’t be an argument of “who’s better”
I totally agree. When they are all already super fluent and been fluent for many years it's annoying to compare/be compared. It's like comparing Apples, Oranges, and Bananas or something...some people enjoy different ones more than others. But I've never seen someone that randomly talked about which fruit is better, or it's pretty rare! I wonder why people care about language ability so much or have to talk about it?? It's so stupid. We are all humans and have the ability to learn languages lol
@@m0ppu To me there is something. I may not be a native speaker, but I am a music producer (with aspergers) and basically always pay attention to how things sound whether I want to or not. This is true for all three of them, but you can really hear they're not (fully) native by the colour of their voice. People with different ethnicities tend to vocalize quite differently. This holds true for most anybody and if you have good, trained hearing you will be able to guess it correctly like 95% of the time. (It is also often influenced by where people grow up and what languages they hear early on in life of course) I use Spotify and listen to a lot of Japanese music. I've started to kind of make a game out of guessing where people are from etc. from the sound of their voice and it's kind of fun. Especially with artists like Nano it's really cool when you guess right. That's not something you really need to worry about when learning a language, but another aspect one could think about optimizing. Although it is extremely difficult. Basically you'd need to be a top level voice actor/actress to do it and even then it's difficult.
@Yona I think it is sort of of course someone who isn't a native speaker will most likely never sound like one if you nitpick everything. I think that should be understood and it makes sense because it's not their native tongue. So I have no idea why so many learning Japanese are placing enormous emphasis on sounding like an actual native speaker. It is so odd. I feel like many learners of other languages don't place accent training to try to sound completely native speaker and their top three. I don't know, I always just found this so weird. I'm not speaking to you directly. But it seems odd to me, to me such oddly intense accent training are focuses if want to do it as art or do it for assimilation...
@@salamilid4125 Honestly I feel like that developed because it used to be the other way around. Even now a lot of Japanese learners don't really put all that much effort into learning correct pronunciation. More are, sure, but people used to ignore that aspect of the language entirely. Some tried to improve and noticed that that aspect of their language ability is still very lacking. If you compare the views of pronunciation videos to general language basics etc. you'll see that pronunciation is still a kind of underground topic though.
Being an English as a foreign language teacher I totally understand the criticism about not "sounding effortless". Teachers usually don't speak in a natural way and most of the time we're using our "teacher voice", which I believe is the case for Dogen's videos.
True. In English less so, you get used to natural English rather quickly, I'd say. But in French it's really apparent. I learned French as a third language and Jesus. School French and natural French are worlds apart. The first time I visited France I couldn't understand anything anyone said, because it was just so different.
I think Dogen's Japanese is the way it is, because most of his videos are scripted. Meaning he writes it out and then essentially recites it. Try doing that in your own native tongue and you'll quickly discover that you'll sound a bit off. It doesn't come off quite natural if you're reading a script or reciting it. There's a certain element to speaking your mind as you go, that makes it sound more natural and effortless, even if it's technically more effort to think as you talk. Plus a lot of Dogen's comedy videos are using intentional linguistic puns and exaggerations to create that comedic delivery - it's a performance, which is not how Japanese is usually spoken. Your average person speaking isn't looking to put on a show.
@@flowerdolphin5648 Your teachers shouldn't be using a teacher voice on you, if you are learning the language to learn the language. They are basically tricking you and building you up to fail. I understand why they do it, they are trying to make it easy for the students to understand, but they will be most student's primary source of language, so they are supplying you with incorrect information.
You shouldn't be using a teacher voice. You should be speaking naturally. You probably feel that the students understand you better when you use a teacher voice, but they would also understand you better if you spoke in their native language. This is particularly important in English, because we don't speak in sentences the same way we speak individual words, due to sentence stress. So if you speak slowly and clearly then you will be pronouncing all the words differently to a native speaker speaking at full speed. You are also making the student's job harder, because English is not designed to be spoken quickly with full clear sounds. As an example, it's very hard to make a hard t or d followed by another letter mid word. Native speakers soften and harden letters depending on where they are in a word and sentence, and the only way for students to learn this is to have exposure to this from the start. Otherwise they will continually be trying to talk in a way that is very difficult. They will also sound weird to native speakers, because the rhythm will be totally off. Most native speakers are so normalised to rhythm they probably won't even notice it, they'll tell them that the problem is the sounds (which are actually a result of their incorrect rhythm), and thus they will hyper focus on clear phonemic pronunciation, which will just compound said pronunciation problem.
Hey could you explain more to me? I dont speak japanese, I think he say a word with the pitch accent different that means something else but I cant understand it
@@AnhnotAnn "jouzu" means skillful. On it's face, it's a compliment to one's Japanese abilities. The background for the joke is that many Japanese people will tell you that you're jouzu at Japanese for basically no real show of ability, and only when one stops getting the jouzu compliment can one be confident that one is actually good at Japanese. By calling himself "jouzu" he is therefore saying he's shit at Japanese.
The fact that I couldn’t even tell this was a funny video and there was huge buildup for a single joke is some seriously high quality comedy. Congratulations 道元、you’ve won.
dont worry, you will never run away from it from now on. Everywhere you go, whatever you say, whoever you talk to, it'll be "Nihongo jouzu desu ne". JK, i actually got the "Wait you're not japanese?" from a dry cleaning lady last summer. And hell yeah im gonna tell that at every given chance. [am Mongolian btw]
That punchline killed me. I'm glad you didn't take it seriously. Personally, I love the way you speak Japanese. I listen to a lot of Vtubers, and they speak very fast or with moe-moe voices that make them hard to understand, so your videos are better for comprehension practice (the subtitles help link the sounds, but sometimes, I try to just listen).
But Dogen does have one advantage. His Japanese might not be 100% perfect but due to his linguistics background he can still also nitpick about the mistakes other people make in their Japanese.
I LOL'ed at the end. Literally XD I think why Dogen doesn't sound so effortless is because he makes an effort to speak especially perceivable and exact. While this doesn't sound effortless and super natural, it's perfect for being a teacher and to teach us :D Thanks, Dogen!
You are still my favourite foreigner who speak Japanese. Despite Japanese being really different than English you still managed to speak it fluently as well constantly convey humor in both languages. Effortless or not everyone have that kind of skill. Jouzu Ka jouzu kunai ka? Doudemo ii yo!! Tanoshimu nara sore de ii janai?
Almost not fair to compare you with the other two because we mostly hear your Japanese in self-made sketches or videos where you are acting, and trying to be funny, rather than the others who we see having regular conversations. I wonder how Yuta would feel if he got a chance to hear you speak conversationally.
@@davfyddebruce9280 He was but he is half Japanese and his family raised him to speak Japanese. It was a bilingual household so he is a native English and Japanese speaker.
Man, you just 日本語上手'ed yourself? 🤣🤣🤣. In all honesty, though, yes, Joey's mom and family did help to give him a huge leap over Dogen and Matt, so I think this comparison is not even fair. In any event, they all 3 are freaking amazing and one day I wish I can reach their supreme levels!
@@AlternativeMindz since people in their childhood is very good at language, (as kids are quick to understand and able to grasp them easily than adults) I have spoken three languages in a row before and now it's four! Here's my languages: My first native language, malay language, english then finally japanese.
@@ZaquWasTaken Um, so did all of them? Doesn't change the fact about Joey's mom giving all of that natural Japanese input since he was an infant basically. The point of his comment still stands.
tbh, when a japanese lady my mom's age said my nervous-ass intermediate-level japanese was jouzu, it just hits harder than any teacher's grade. dogen has a point
Joey is a native speaker. He is Japanese and his family knows Japanese. He wasn't born in Japan but he has always heard Japanese since the day he was born.
I find it interesting how much people are confident in Joey’s Japanese despite not speaking the language. I’m a Japanese American (both are Japanese) and speak quite fluently (passed the hardest proficiency test). But since I never lived in Japan, people still notice I’m not from from Japan if you get what I mean. Hell, I have a friend who is half Japanese but was raised in Japan and sounds a lot more Japanese than I do. There is obviously going to be difference between Japanese living outside and inside Japan. Even I can tell Joey wasn’t raised in Japan just from his Japanese.
@@who-ss9bh He is still a native speaker though. Someone born speaking the language but living outside the country might speak differently, but there is also different dialects inside Japan as well. You might be able to tell what region a person comes from in Japan by how they talk too.
@@Lilitha11 I'm confused because then we can say these non-native speakers also have an accent/dialect. A non-native speaker can have better language skills compared to a native speaker. And also the point is that Joey and many other foreign-born Japanese have an "accent" that makes it clear that we aren't raised within Japan. So I find it perfectly valid to use his language skills as a comparison to other non-native speakers and speakers from Japan. If anything, we are right in the middle of this spectrum.
@@who-ss9bh Well people can pick up accents and they do all the time. So I don't think it is really unusual, to say a foreigner has an accent. Someone born in raised in Japan who spoke Japanese all their life might develop and accent if they went overseas for several years. I wouldn't say a person is right or wrong, based off their accent though, so you can't really judge their language skills based off that. For example, if someone had a New York accent, it would be kind of silly to say they are not speaking proper English because of that. And you can't really judge two people and say one speaks with a Texas accent and one speaks with a New York accent, so one is better than the other.
@@Lilitha11 Again I agree with you there, but I didn't say Joey's Japanese is inherently wrong. I simply stated it was noticeable that he didn't grow up in Japan and has an accent. So I don't understand the qualms with comparing his Japanese with other foreigners or Japanese who may have an accent. Since it's pretty clear that his accent is unique to Japanese raised abroad and not from Japan. It would be a good comparison.
I'm japanese but i think Dogen is actually better than Matt in a sense. Dogen articulates really well and you can understand every single word he says it's almost poetic on the other hand Matt just breezes through the words so it "sounds more native"
I think this video was the first one where your actual everyday speaking Japanese showed through and if you compare Matt to that, it's definitely more like a tie. I have had Japanese friends back in uni telling me that my Japanese was way more natural, some even said better, than the Japanese of my Senpai who went on to do his masters at Waseda Uni - so there is honestly no way my Japanese was better than his. Lol The only thing I did better was pronounciation and that's how I was able to fool many Japanese people along the way into thinking my Japanese was actually really good while I was still in my baby shoes of learning to actually converse in the language. I looked up to my Senpai for his Japanese skills and I remember this one time where he would explain to me how Kanji are built and I didn't understand a freaking thing he said lol. There was just no way I was 'better' at the language than him😆😆 I feel with Matt and you it's similar. You both have been studying Japanese for a long time and while Matt focuses more on pronounciation and speaking 'natural Japanese', you have built up your channel with this Dogen-character who speaks eloquently and is able to convey a very specific type of humor while also being a good listening practise for Japanese learners. And I agree, putting Joey into the equation feels kinda inappropriate🙃😅
To make people believe you are native you have to actually not be too good at Japanese. Perfect keigo will make people suspicious but if you mess it up like Japanese people do (most typically the doubling of polite verb + polite form), you sound more native. There's so many things that can make you seem more native even if they objectively shouldn't be.
Me 20 seconds before the video ends: Okay man I'm listening. What's your counter-argument? Whaddya gotta say? Me 8 seconds before the video ends: Okay this is definitely a joke building up to a punchline Me when the video ends: *inner peace*
Joey and Matt might have better Japanese, but Dogen is *funny.* He's not having conversations with people on the street, he's making both comedy shorts *and* instructional videos, so he's serving different ends.
As a native Japanese speaker who haven't even heard the other two guys than Dogen speaking Japanese, I dare to assume Dogen is by far the best in terms of aesthetics in disguise of humor. Even including us Japanese, his capacity for intentionally conveying or imparting a tinge of aesthetics on the idiosyncratic sets of wave patterns collectively labelled "Japanese language" sounds soothingly top-notch, or rather almost like a progenitor of such capacity.
I read the Kanji dictionary for fun, too. That's how I accidentally learned the word, 「お膣」. (If I translate it, TH-cam will probably auto-delete the comment).
Ahh yes, I remember that Kanji from my very cultured immersion. Sometimes, when there's furigana used with that Kanji, it tends to change readings, somehow. Stuff like "ただいま" comes to mind, if you know what I mean...
I can't believe he went the whole 4-minute video making comparisons, presenting arguments and whatnot just for that one final punchline LMAO! That's Dogen for you...
Don't let the haters get you down. The reason he likes your Japanese less than the others is because you are theatrical while Joey and Matt are not. The theater changes a man and sets him aside from his peers. You are an actor (with the appropriate knowingly pretentious emphasis on the word 'actor')
I dont think Yuta's a hater. He's stating his opinion as a Native Japanese speaker. Dogen even agrees with him and is just playing up his reaction for a joke.
@@PatManDX Yes, I'm pretty sure he's just stating his honest opinion since he also praises Dogen's Japanese skills a lot and not commenting anything aggressive. And yes, I absolutely agree that the reason his Japanese looks less effortless is that he's an actor, and an actor has to speak their lines very clearly, with very good and "unique" intonation so it fits the character. Kinda like how seiyuus talk very differently in their characters vs real life. When he talks normally without a script like this, I think they are closer and similar in terms of fluency and being natural. Personally I like Dogen much more because of his humor and humility :D
@Richard Clutterbuck YEP. A strange video indeed.... Came out of nowhere. Short video with no substance. Can tell it wasn't in the pipeline. Just happens to coincide with Matt's "Uproot" program, where he actually started accepting payments days before this video... Very strange indeed.....
This is like a Japanese TH-camr hall of mirrors. I hope to see Matt's reaction video to Joey's reaction to Yuta's reaction to THIS video. That'll be some high-quality Japanese learnin' "content" right there.
I think that Dogen "sounds like an actor", which makes sense, with his sketches.
He isn't trying to talk naturally, he is trying to control his tempo to deliver his "jokes" and he pronounces the words as clearly as possible like an actor would do on a theater.
Exactly this. He used a style not everyone in Japan actually likes but is definitely a sign of really high control of the language and your expression.
Listen to it for hours gets really tiring but it is absolutely impressive and many Japanese teachers would love to speak that way.
That being said - he used bakabakashi (stupid) here in a really rude way. That absolutely doesn’t fit with his speaking style.
Kabuki is theater ig?
I think Dogen's pronunciation is better than Matt's cause some of the Matt's consonants and vowels sound American to me
and that actor style is americanish
@@bingobongo1615 He said it regarding himself though, surely you're allowed to disparage yourself for the punchline?
Joey is proficient.
Matt has native-like pronunciation and speech.
But Dogen is Jouzu.
I believe Dogen is permanently jouzu. 😏
haha
What is jouzu?
@@ambersimerly1803 It's the phrase japanese people says to compliment non japanese speakers each time they say a word no matter if it's good or not.
It mean to be good at, or skilled at something.
@@ambersimerly1803 superbly good
I like how for the first minute-fifty his reaction is literally like Japanese TV reactions-a box in the corner with no commentary at all.
Fuck yeah I was thinking the same thing😆😆
nah the box is too big
@@llamaheist5443 and there's not enough sound effects
More sparkly 字幕！
It needs to have a rainbow border or something
The fact that Dogen was dragging on the analysis until this video was over at the end there made me expect something. But despite that expectation, that "Jouzu" still caught me off guard lol
I greatly enjoyed how he added to the discourse and still managed to punch us with an unexpected swift giggle in the end.
Yeah the long setup to a short punchline was great. Regardless of who has better Japanese, Dogen has some great humor.
Is this the same Jouzu as in the title of "teasing master Takagi San"?
I don't get this inside joke
@@madafaka8784 日本語上手 is typically what gets said to Japanese learners when natives hear them speak, even if their Japanese isn’t that good. That’s why Dogen calling himself 上手 isn’t really a compliment.
If u watch more of his videos you’ll get more of the inside jokes, he’s got some really witty humour tbh
It’s also the same 上手 as からかい上手の高木さん in case you were wondering
@@finallylegal2125 Thank you very much, that's a great explanation!
I watched a bit and I agree. Had to pause sometimes to understand NGL, I'm not a 上手 yet.
you can rob him of his money, his dignity, even his life. But you can't rob him of his 上手さ
True words up!
😂
I’m nerding out over the fact that you included the さ
What that say?
@@ikustaa jouzu
We need Dogen grades Yuta's Japanese
yes
or English.
Second that
upvote
Yes
The true superior ability of Dogen is the extra effort humor. Oh boy, that punch line, I'm crying of laughter dude, lmfao
dude that was the hardest I have laughed in a long time. I've never really watched many of Dogen's videos and I've not really gotten them before.. the humour... but holy shit was I dying of laughter from that
And Yabatan wants to form a Manzai with Dogen so bad... WHY NOT DOGEN? JUST DO IT!!!
i didn't expect to laugh that hard XD
I didn't get it! Can someone explain?
@@isaac4273 if im not mistaken that what native Japanese say to every foreigner that speak a little bit of Japanese. It’s a polite way to encourage you. For some foreigner that dont know that and how Japanese people are it’s a bit surprising and they dont know what to make of it. But now you know .
As a Japanese native speaker I would say Dogen’s vocab is just super rich, and he sounds really smart in general.(at least I can’t speak like him)
Joey sounds mostly native and it’s impressive too!
But they all speak in their unique ways and this shouldn’t be an argument of “who’s better”
are there parts of Joey's speech that don't sound native to you?
I totally agree. When they are all already super fluent and been fluent for many years it's annoying to compare/be compared.
It's like comparing Apples, Oranges, and Bananas or something...some people enjoy different ones more than others.
But I've never seen someone that randomly talked about which fruit is better, or it's pretty rare!
I wonder why people care about language ability so much or have to talk about it?? It's so stupid.
We are all humans and have the ability to learn languages lol
@@m0ppu To me there is something. I may not be a native speaker, but I am a music producer (with aspergers) and basically always pay attention to how things sound whether I want to or not. This is true for all three of them, but you can really hear they're not (fully) native by the colour of their voice. People with different ethnicities tend to vocalize quite differently. This holds true for most anybody and if you have good, trained hearing you will be able to guess it correctly like 95% of the time. (It is also often influenced by where people grow up and what languages they hear early on in life of course) I use Spotify and listen to a lot of Japanese music. I've started to kind of make a game out of guessing where people are from etc. from the sound of their voice and it's kind of fun. Especially with artists like Nano it's really cool when you guess right. That's not something you really need to worry about when learning a language, but another aspect one could think about optimizing. Although it is extremely difficult. Basically you'd need to be a top level voice actor/actress to do it and even then it's difficult.
@Yona I think it is sort of of course someone who isn't a native speaker will most likely never sound like one if you nitpick everything. I think that should be understood and it makes sense because it's not their native tongue. So I have no idea why so many learning Japanese are placing enormous emphasis on sounding like an actual native speaker. It is so odd. I feel like many learners of other languages don't place accent training to try to sound completely native speaker and their top three. I don't know, I always just found this so weird. I'm not speaking to you directly. But it seems odd to me, to me such oddly intense accent training are focuses if want to do it as art or do it for assimilation...
@@salamilid4125 Honestly I feel like that developed because it used to be the other way around. Even now a lot of Japanese learners don't really put all that much effort into learning correct pronunciation. More are, sure, but people used to ignore that aspect of the language entirely. Some tried to improve and noticed that that aspect of their language ability is still very lacking. If you compare the views of pronunciation videos to general language basics etc. you'll see that pronunciation is still a kind of underground topic though.
I just love that Dogen make a 4 mins video only to make a punchline at the end. Indeed Dogen is more _Nihongo Jouzu_ 😂😂
And then shows the endlogo without a pause, that makes it more hilarious
somehow, i see you a lot on the comments section of the videos i watch
Dang Raylight's here too
bro its you again
From VTuber clips, to videogame vids and also Dogen vids... One could almost think you're competing against Just Some Guy Without a Mustache
Being an English as a foreign language teacher I totally understand the criticism about not "sounding effortless". Teachers usually don't speak in a natural way and most of the time we're using our "teacher voice", which I believe is the case for Dogen's videos.
True. In English less so, you get used to natural English rather quickly, I'd say. But in French it's really apparent. I learned French as a third language and Jesus. School French and natural French are worlds apart. The first time I visited France I couldn't understand anything anyone said, because it was just so different.
I think Dogen's Japanese is the way it is, because most of his videos are scripted. Meaning he writes it out and then essentially recites it. Try doing that in your own native tongue and you'll quickly discover that you'll sound a bit off. It doesn't come off quite natural if you're reading a script or reciting it. There's a certain element to speaking your mind as you go, that makes it sound more natural and effortless, even if it's technically more effort to think as you talk.
Plus a lot of Dogen's comedy videos are using intentional linguistic puns and exaggerations to create that comedic delivery - it's a performance, which is not how Japanese is usually spoken. Your average person speaking isn't looking to put on a show.
That is exactly like my French teacher
@@flowerdolphin5648 Your teachers shouldn't be using a teacher voice on you, if you are learning the language to learn the language. They are basically tricking you and building you up to fail. I understand why they do it, they are trying to make it easy for the students to understand, but they will be most student's primary source of language, so they are supplying you with incorrect information.
You shouldn't be using a teacher voice. You should be speaking naturally. You probably feel that the students understand you better when you use a teacher voice, but they would also understand you better if you spoke in their native language. This is particularly important in English, because we don't speak in sentences the same way we speak individual words, due to sentence stress. So if you speak slowly and clearly then you will be pronouncing all the words differently to a native speaker speaking at full speed. You are also making the student's job harder, because English is not designed to be spoken quickly with full clear sounds. As an example, it's very hard to make a hard t or d followed by another letter mid word. Native speakers soften and harden letters depending on where they are in a word and sentence, and the only way for students to learn this is to have exposure to this from the start. Otherwise they will continually be trying to talk in a way that is very difficult. They will also sound weird to native speakers, because the rhythm will be totally off. Most native speakers are so normalised to rhythm they probably won't even notice it, they'll tell them that the problem is the sounds (which are actually a result of their incorrect rhythm), and thus they will hyper focus on clear phonemic pronunciation, which will just compound said pronunciation problem.
4 minute preface to a perfect 1 word punch line. We got bamboozled and this shows Dogen is miles ahead of every other youtuber when it comes to wit.
If you want an English language equivalent, check out Matt Colbo. Dude's humour is on another level
Agreed, absolutely.
He's the One-Punchline Man
Not gonna lie, I thought the last line was going to be along the lines of “I have one thing the others clearly don’t. Sex appeal.”
I mean, that's not a lie either
I thought it was gonna be "good content on their channel"
Well that one really goes without saying, so a different punch line was needed.
Was definitely waiting for the sexy comment 😝
...and twin daughters, can't forget that hospital skit 😂
Dogenさんは日本語がめちゃくちゃ上手なだけでなく、知性とユーモア(茶目っ気)も兼ね備えてるので断トツです。
確かに、独特なユーモアやいろんなユーモアを英語と日本語で伝わるのは相当難しいと思います
so des !
Ayyy 👍
Dogenの日本語も違和感あるし、Yutaの英語も訛り全面出しだから、そもそもお互いの批評してる事自体が滑稽。 他人の英語・日本語を指摘して良いのは、俺みたいなパーフェクトバイリンガルだけ。
そうですね
I can't believe I just spent 4 minutes watching Dogen set up a Nihongo Jōzu punchline.
The strategy was genius, indeed
Hey could you explain more to me? I dont speak japanese, I think he say a word with the pitch accent different that means something else but I cant understand it
@@AnhnotAnn
Nobody can, obviously ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@@AnhnotAnn "jouzu" means skillful. On it's face, it's a compliment to one's Japanese abilities. The background for the joke is that many Japanese people will tell you that you're jouzu at Japanese for basically no real show of ability, and only when one stops getting the jouzu compliment can one be confident that one is actually good at Japanese. By calling himself "jouzu" he is therefore saying he's shit at Japanese.
@@Brettah31 Thank you for explaining! Was very confused at the punch line.
maybe the real 日本語上手 was the 仲間s we made along the way
途中でできた仲間たちも日本語が上手ですね(笑)
The fact that I couldn’t even tell this was a funny video and there was huge buildup for a single joke is some seriously high quality comedy. Congratulations 道元、you’ve won.
It's not 道元, it's 動言。
@@dahyimi2185 I hate to tell you this, but you’re wrong
@@gavinmatsu ガゐン 마っ
i read it as みちもと😂
@@ADeeSHUPA bruh is that hangeul i thought thats kanji, what does that read?
"You can tell Joey is very intelligent just by listening to him speak."
*listens to Trash Taste*
hmm
joey is indeed the most intelligent, because the contenders was GRANT and MONKE.
Exactly, int.
Wis is a dump stat.
Lmfao
Jokes aside I do think Joey is pretty smart in certain aspects.
He's trash. He's Hella white wash. He and the white guy are your typical "know it all" anime fans.
@@knashboi3914 yes, that's why some times you think he's a bit pretentious when he talk something, especially about music or anime.
I just got nihongo jouzu’d today. I lit up like a kid on Christmas morning and was like “THERE IT IS!!!” 😂
New experience? Get used to hearing it your whole life bro :)
You should be saying, "GODDAMMIT I GOT JOUZU'D AGAIN TODAY" instead
More like "YATTA!! GETTO DAZE!!"
@@centsant It's like the rick roll, you'll never ever stop getting jozu'd
dont worry, you will never run away from it from now on. Everywhere you go, whatever you say, whoever you talk to, it'll be "Nihongo jouzu desu ne".
JK, i actually got the "Wait you're not japanese?" from a dry cleaning lady last summer. And hell yeah im gonna tell that at every given chance. [am Mongolian btw]
even has the japanese tv style reaction box lmao
母国語以外でここまでユーモアや文学性にあふれた話ができるのがどれほど凄いか。とてつもない言語力だと思います。
マジでdogenの日本語は誰から見てもめっちゃ上z
This video is akin to being Rick Rolled and i love it lmfao
「勝手に他人に優劣をつけるなんて許せない」と義憤に駆られつつ、Dogenさんと怒りを共有できる瞬間を待っていたら最後の2秒ではしごを外されました。面白かったです。
Holy shit, that was amazing. Really understand your reasoning and I have to say no one can argue with that line of logic.
Shit isn't holy except to Hindus.
That punchline killed me. I'm glad you didn't take it seriously. Personally, I love the way you speak Japanese. I listen to a lot of Vtubers, and they speak very fast or with moe-moe voices that make them hard to understand, so your videos are better for comprehension practice (the subtitles help link the sounds, but sometimes, I try to just listen).
Humble as always dogen. No need to compare yourself to others. Compare yourself to yourself and improve. If you do that we can all meet at the top.
I think it's just a matter of different people having their own voice. Everyone is proficient, but Dogen makes me laugh the most.
クスッと笑えて日本人のツボも理解してるのがドーゲンさんの動画の何よりの強み笑
もう既にオチがおもろいwww
Jesus, that punchline literally had me spitting out my burrito! Well done Dogen, well done.
without knowing joey and matts status as permanent resident or not, I was expecting you to drop the flex. So the jouzu caught me off guard lol.
Ahahaha
That would have been a pretty good flex too
That would've been one heck of mic drop.
Matt is still in the US, I believe
Joey might actually be a Japanese citizen. Not sure though.
DOGENさん、謙虚だなぁ〜と思って聞いてたら最後吹き出してしまいました😂👍💗✨
matt may win on pronunciation but you have the humility of a native japanese man
Matt is insufferable
@@nicolatoomey4882 you're mom:)
You might be mistaking Dogen's self-deprecating ironic humour for genuine humility 😂.
native japaneses are not humble at all
The slow build up made me very suspicious of the punchline. You can never escape the jouzu
10/10 video once again, the ending got me real good
But Dogen does have one advantage. His Japanese might not be 100% perfect but due to his linguistics background he can still also nitpick about the mistakes other people make in their Japanese.
ユウタの英語の発音も「ザ・ジャパニーズ」なのに、外国人同士の日本語の流暢さを「比較」するなんてユウタは「ナニサマ？」と言いたい…
I'm subscribed to Dogen.
I'm not subscribed to the other two.
Pretty sure I just settled this in three lines.
now turn this into a haiku
@@Victorsandergamer Damnit Feksander
I am a subscriber here
Not a damn poet
@@ShadowKatt 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏 i see wat you did there
私は日本人ですが一度ユウタに同じことをコメントしたことがあります。ジョーイは日本人であり日本人が日本人を評価すること自体完全に失礼であるということです。Dogenさんのように非母語話者で一語一語分析しここまで日本語を極め、それを多くの方にレッスンされているような影響力のある方を知りません。そして日本人よりユーモアのセンスが飛びぬけています。日本人や日本文化を誰よりも観察されています。私はアメリカ英語を20年間やっていますが、いつまでたっても日本訛りから抜け出せず文法ミスがなくなりません。言葉とは総合力であり、発音・語彙・人格・ユーモア・文化への造詣・その他その国に関する知識など、どれが欠けても完全にはなりえないと思います。それが出来ている日本人がどのくらいいるでしょうか。その意味でDogenさんは特別であり、誰と比較することもできません。
Gracias por tu comentario 😊Watashi wa nihongo no gakusei desu. Panama sushin des demo aishteru nihon❤❤ Ja mata😊
Dogenさんの魅力は、”丁寧さ”かな！
ネイティブ(若者)のように自然に話すことができる人もすごいですけど、尊敬語謙譲語丁寧語を使いこなせるのは日本人にも少ないですから。
Never in my life had I encountered 9 (overlycomplicated) kanji in a row. That scared me lmao.
@@goldeer7129 This is just 3x3 without comma
すごい！日本語上手ですね！
いや、黙りなさい、あなた。Only a 外人 can say another 外人 "上手"
LMAO the punchline I can't 🤣
DogenさんとJoeyさんの日本語の違いをラジオパーソナリティーで例えるなら、
Dogenさんは報道部の局アナが急遽バラエティ番組に駆り出されてフリートークしてる感じ。
Joeyさんは声優が自分のレギュラー番組の中でいつも通りフリートークしてる感じ。
それぞれ、自分の得意な方法で正確で綺麗な日本語を届けようという気持ちが伝わってきて好きです。
I LOL'ed at the end. Literally XD
I think why Dogen doesn't sound so effortless is because he makes an effort to speak especially perceivable and exact. While this doesn't sound effortless and super natural, it's perfect for being a teacher and to teach us :D
Thanks, Dogen!
I want to hug Dogen so he won't feel bad for himself now.
Same, mate!
id love to hug dogen he seems very friendly
You are still my favourite foreigner who speak Japanese. Despite Japanese being really different than English you still managed to speak it fluently as well constantly convey humor in both languages. Effortless or not everyone have that kind of skill. Jouzu Ka jouzu kunai ka? Doudemo ii yo!! Tanoshimu nara sore de ii janai?
Almost not fair to compare you with the other two because we mostly hear your Japanese in self-made sketches or videos where you are acting, and trying to be funny, rather than the others who we see having regular conversations. I wonder how Yuta would feel if he got a chance to hear you speak conversationally.
It is silly to compare them anyway, since Joey is a native speaker.
@@Lilitha11 I thought Joey was Australian born and raised?
@@davfyddebruce9280 He was but he is half Japanese and his family raised him to speak Japanese. It was a bilingual household so he is a native English and Japanese speaker.
To me Dogen knows the best オチ among them while more than half of Japanese people スベってる everyday.
Truly impressive.
i was waiting for a punchline but i didn't know it was gonna get me that good hahahah
The longest, most elaborate set-up for the most surprising, yet dull ochi.
Have you thought about getting into 落語?
Man, you just 日本語上手'ed yourself? 🤣🤣🤣. In all honesty, though, yes, Joey's mom and family did help to give him a huge leap over Dogen and Matt, so I think this comparison is not even fair. In any event, they all 3 are freaking amazing and one day I wish I can reach their supreme levels!
I mean joey is literally half japanese he should'nt be on this comparision 😂
but Joey did say that he studied Japanese quite a lot even tho he is half Japanese
@@ZaquWasTakenyes, not saying it wasn't a part of his training either, but that's a lot of knowledge from childhood.
@@AlternativeMindz since people in their childhood is very good at language, (as kids are quick to understand and able to grasp them easily than adults) I have spoken three languages in a row before and now it's four! Here's my languages:
My first native language, malay language, english then finally japanese.
@@ZaquWasTaken Um, so did all of them? Doesn't change the fact about Joey's mom giving all of that natural Japanese input since he was an infant basically. The point of his comment still stands.
I’ve just sat and waited four minutes for the punchline… it was worth it.
Dogenさんは、確かに「上手さ」では負けないよ。Plus, you’re just funnier. 🍻
動画の最後でいつも爆笑してしまいます！
センスが素晴らしい!!!
tbh, when a japanese lady my mom's age said my nervous-ass intermediate-level japanese was jouzu, it just hits harder than any teacher's grade. dogen has a point
Man, you got me with that end! I wasn't expecting that. True genius.
ほんまに道元さん、日本語が上手やで😂👌🏽
Doggen w
イヤー、アナタハ、ワカラナイデスヨ
外人が関西弁使うのって寒いんよなぁ
@@24emps98 別にいいじゃんか
@@24emps98 大阪に住んだことあるさかい 🙆🏽♂️ しょうがね
This is why I love Dogen 😂
Joey is a native speaker. He is Japanese and his family knows Japanese. He wasn't born in Japan but he has always heard Japanese since the day he was born.
I find it interesting how much people are confident in Joey’s Japanese despite not speaking the language. I’m a Japanese American (both are Japanese) and speak quite fluently (passed the hardest proficiency test). But since I never lived in Japan, people still notice I’m not from from Japan if you get what I mean. Hell, I have a friend who is half Japanese but was raised in Japan and sounds a lot more Japanese than I do. There is obviously going to be difference between Japanese living outside and inside Japan. Even I can tell Joey wasn’t raised in Japan just from his Japanese.
@@who-ss9bh He is still a native speaker though. Someone born speaking the language but living outside the country might speak differently, but there is also different dialects inside Japan as well. You might be able to tell what region a person comes from in Japan by how they talk too.
@@Lilitha11 I'm confused because then we can say these non-native speakers also have an accent/dialect. A non-native speaker can have better language skills compared to a native speaker. And also the point is that Joey and many other foreign-born Japanese have an "accent" that makes it clear that we aren't raised within Japan. So I find it perfectly valid to use his language skills as a comparison to other non-native speakers and speakers from Japan. If anything, we are right in the middle of this spectrum.
@@who-ss9bh Well people can pick up accents and they do all the time. So I don't think it is really unusual, to say a foreigner has an accent. Someone born in raised in Japan who spoke Japanese all their life might develop and accent if they went overseas for several years.
I wouldn't say a person is right or wrong, based off their accent though, so you can't really judge their language skills based off that. For example, if someone had a New York accent, it would be kind of silly to say they are not speaking proper English because of that. And you can't really judge two people and say one speaks with a Texas accent and one speaks with a New York accent, so one is better than the other.
@@Lilitha11 Again I agree with you there, but I didn't say Joey's Japanese is inherently wrong. I simply stated it was noticeable that he didn't grow up in Japan and has an accent. So I don't understand the qualms with comparing his Japanese with other foreigners or Japanese who may have an accent. Since it's pretty clear that his accent is unique to Japanese raised abroad and not from Japan. It would be a good comparison.
いや、オチが本当に秀逸だよな～👏👏
頭の良さが滲み出てるのはDogenさんだと思う
Joey & Matt: We have native-like pronunciation and speech
Dogen: But are you 上手???
I absolutely love and appreciate the depth and simultaneous brevity of your content, Dogen先生 🫡 🙏🏽🎆
I'm japanese but i think Dogen is actually better than Matt in a sense. Dogen articulates really well and you can understand every single word he says it's almost poetic on the other hand Matt just breezes through the words so it "sounds more native"
I think this video was the first one where your actual everyday speaking Japanese showed through and if you compare Matt to that, it's definitely more like a tie.
I have had Japanese friends back in uni telling me that my Japanese was way more natural, some even said better, than the Japanese of my Senpai who went on to do his masters at Waseda Uni - so there is honestly no way my Japanese was better than his. Lol
The only thing I did better was pronounciation and that's how I was able to fool many Japanese people along the way into thinking my Japanese was actually really good while I was still in my baby shoes of learning to actually converse in the language. I looked up to my Senpai for his Japanese skills and I remember this one time where he would explain to me how Kanji are built and I didn't understand a freaking thing he said lol. There was just no way I was 'better' at the language than him😆😆
I feel with Matt and you it's similar. You both have been studying Japanese for a long time and while Matt focuses more on pronounciation and speaking 'natural Japanese', you have built up your channel with this Dogen-character who speaks eloquently and is able to convey a very specific type of humor while also being a good listening practise for Japanese learners.
And I agree, putting Joey into the equation feels kinda inappropriate🙃😅
To make people believe you are native you have to actually not be too good at Japanese. Perfect keigo will make people suspicious but if you mess it up like Japanese people do (most typically the doubling of polite verb + polite form), you sound more native. There's so many things that can make you seem more native even if they objectively shouldn't be.
Yuta : who speaks japanese best
Dogen : so you've chosen death
You three speak perfect Japanese. There is no need to give superiority or inferiority to perfect people.
DiAMoND FUYUKAi
Me 20 seconds before the video ends: Okay man I'm listening. What's your counter-argument? Whaddya gotta say?
Me 8 seconds before the video ends: Okay this is definitely a joke building up to a punchline
Me when the video ends: *inner peace*
Dogen you always SLAY!
I was waiting till the very last second thinking "there has to be a joke to this". It took a while, but that last second was what I expect. さすがDogen
Joey and Matt might have better Japanese, but Dogen is *funny.* He's not having conversations with people on the street, he's making both comedy shorts *and* instructional videos, so he's serving different ends.
2 years of immersion and I'm proud to have understood 85% of what Dogen said without reading the subtitles or any replays/repeats
外国語を話せるようになるには、物凄く努力がいる。
「楽しく学ぼう♪」なんて教える側は言うけど、
学習者は悩んで、恥かいて、何度も壁にぶつかりながら、
時々、才能とか環境のせいにしたくなるのを我慢して、努力を続ける。
それを、こんな風にポンと「Who speaks best?」なんて他者と比べられる事に
私はすご～～～～～～くモヤモヤを抱いたのだけど、
Dogenさんの最後の落ちに救われたぜ。
As a native Japanese speaker who haven't even heard the other two guys than Dogen speaking Japanese, I dare to assume Dogen is by far the best in terms of aesthetics in disguise of humor. Even including us Japanese, his capacity for intentionally conveying or imparting a tinge of aesthetics on the idiosyncratic sets of wave patterns collectively labelled "Japanese language" sounds soothingly top-notch, or rather almost like a progenitor of such capacity.
I read the Kanji dictionary for fun, too. That's how I accidentally learned the word, 「お膣」. (If I translate it, TH-cam will probably auto-delete the comment).
just a guess but could it be omanko ooor ochinko?
@@habibi_xd7022 First option. But i don't think it can be read that way.
@Robin Sailo えええ、初耳だ
Ahh yes, I remember that Kanji from my very cultured immersion. Sometimes, when there's furigana used with that Kanji, it tends to change readings, somehow. Stuff like "ただいま" comes to mind, if you know what I mean...
@@habibi_xd7022 manko/omanko is more of a slang term than ochitsu iirc
The build up for the conclusion was ABSOLUTE GOLD! I totally didn't see it coming. This was literally LAUGH OUT LOUD.
the literal way of writing jouzu is up and hand, from this we can assume dogen has the upper hand, the end.
日本語を日本人よりも上手に話せる外国の方は世の中にたくさんいるでしょうから、ただその上手さをTH-camで見せてるだけなら、多分、私はDogenさんのチャンネルを登録していなかったし動画すら観ていなかっただろうと思います。他の方も書かれてますが、それよりも、日本人でも気付かない日本語の面白さ、ユニークな面を伝えてくれるDogenさんに魅力を感じてみんなが観にきてくれるのかと。私にとってDogenさんの日本語を通して話す話は落語やコントを聴いているみたいでとても楽しいです。日本語の魅力を伝えてくれるDogenさん、これからも応援してます。
It's hilarious that I recognized and understood some of the words in your video. Perfect video.
Nearly four minutes of exposition just for that one joke. This is what makes Dogen the best.
Brilliant, love it Dogen
My man genuinely made us go through almost 4 minutes of video for a 2-word punchline.
WHAT A FUCKING GOD.
Great!!! 😆😆
Thank you for the great video 😊
I can't believe he went the whole 4-minute video making comparisons, presenting arguments and whatnot just for that one final punchline LMAO! That's Dogen for you...
Dogen delivers as usual. I actually laughed out loud by myself....
どうげんさん上手ですね！
Dogenさんの良さは、発音や文法などの表面的なスキルではなく、日本語そのものを深ーーーーいところで、魂レベルで理解しているのが伝わる日本語だということ。個人的には、ダントツトップだと感じるのですが…
３人とも上手すぎるって結論で良いよw
吹いたw
正直マットは俺より流れるように滑らかに言葉が出てくると思うし、英語で喋ってる時からその特徴は明らかなんだよね。(母国語だからといって流暢に言葉が出てくるとは限らない)
I still laughed. Thank you Dogen.
That was so funny. As soon as he stopped Yuta's video after hearing 1 second of criticism, I liked where it was going. Very very good.
このビデオ上手ですね
They can't take 上手 away from you.
Once Dogen's 上手 there won't be a 方図 ☝🏻
That ending was 上手です!
A true master of his craft.
That was hilarious! I was so anticipating your analysis and when you ended with that quintessential ‘jozu’ remark, I totally laughed out loud.
Don't let the haters get you down. The reason he likes your Japanese less than the others is because you are theatrical while Joey and Matt are not. The theater changes a man and sets him aside from his peers. You are an actor (with the appropriate knowingly pretentious emphasis on the word 'actor')
Where's the haters lmao
I dont think Yuta's a hater. He's stating his opinion as a Native Japanese speaker. Dogen even agrees with him and is just playing up his reaction for a joke.
@@PatManDX Yes, I'm pretty sure he's just stating his honest opinion since he also praises Dogen's Japanese skills a lot and not commenting anything aggressive. And yes, I absolutely agree that the reason his Japanese looks less effortless is that he's an actor, and an actor has to speak their lines very clearly, with very good and "unique" intonation so it fits the character. Kinda like how seiyuus talk very differently in their characters vs real life. When he talks normally without a script like this, I think they are closer and similar in terms of fluency and being natural. Personally I like Dogen much more because of his humor and humility :D
Joey doesn't count, he's native...
@Richard Clutterbuck YEP. A strange video indeed.... Came out of nowhere. Short video with no substance. Can tell it wasn't in the pipeline. Just happens to coincide with Matt's "Uproot" program, where he actually started accepting payments days before this video... Very strange indeed.....
i just love this man
geez Dogen don't be soo humble...
Your english is getting jouzu as well
This is like a Japanese TH-camr hall of mirrors. I hope to see Matt's reaction video to Joey's reaction to Yuta's reaction to THIS video. That'll be some high-quality Japanese learnin' "content" right there.
日本語が母語ですが、御三方に日本語力で負けましたw （いやはや、あっぱれですわ）
ユーモアだったり、間のとり方が絶妙で、何よりも「分かりやすい日本語」を話そうと日々心がけていることがしっかりと伝わって来ます…(*^ ^*)
最後に一言だけ、
『日本語上手ですね〜』
君も上手👌🏻
@@OmarLivesUnderSpace
いえいえ、私なんかまだまだですよ〜w
@@sidu9326
(｡•̀ᴗ-)👉🏻
This is why you're my favourite, Dogen.
Now, there's the matter of Yuta's English...
Thanks for the video :)