Are you planning on doing a teardown of that soldering/SMD station you have? I just bought one, but of course I double checked your channel to see if there was anything on it.
its shoking to see how bad these things are made i had a light that is the same concept but with a hand crank and evry single time i charged it by mains power the crank started spinning
I just want to make sure I understand the current path that causes the mains voltage to appear on the USB port. So a shock risk exists if you plug the mains cord in backwards (this puts the dropper capacitor in series with the neutral instead of the live) from the circuits perspective this doesn't make any difference since it's still in series with the dropper capacitor and will still work normally. However when you touch USB negative you're essentially bypassing the dropper capacitor on the neutral through the ground to neutral bonding connection at the main panel and because the capacitor isn't in series with the hot you will receive a full mains voltage shock minus the negligible .7 volt drop of the bridge rectifier?
We got some of those hot air guns at work. They worked quite well but we did have to add in an earth wire in the base to get the metal heating element shield to pass the PAT test.
watching these and hearing you talk about getting shocked reminds me of when i had to use an electric saw on some stuff while standing in a puddle. far from being a fatal shock, but also far from a fun one. i said bad things and got out of the puddle, then made sure it would not happen again, and got back to work.
5:38 That's odd. 3 Nimh cells at 5.04v? unless the USB meter is way off, it means 1,68v per cell and that's extremely high even for a freshly charged cell. Is there a chance that they used primary alkaline cells, making it even more dangerous then it already is?
yeah that voltage indicates alkaline cells, since even fully charged Ni-MH is only about 1.5V - 1.55V each, not almost 1.7V. You can get 1.6V - 1.7V from primary cells such as alkaline or Zinc Carbon.
You rip the shit out of every crummy bit of electronics, but with some expertise and a smooth tone that makes it much better than shouting alot and throwing it against the wall :D Love it !
The only voltage regulation in the original circuit is the NiMH cells. It would be funny if it fried your phone, wouldn't it? Then when you pulled the charred remains out of the charger, it fried you for an encore.
It's voltage regulation and overvoltage protection with manual feedback. If you hear the sounds of cells bulging, smell something funny or start seeing smoke coming out of battery chamber (see, it accomodates 3 senses so it's safe to use even by handicapped people) it means that voltage is too big and you gotta pull out the mains plug. If you phone doesn't charge it means that voltage is too low.
In case anyone doesn't want to google, the hack is essentially this: The FLIR E4 normally has a resolution of 80x60, however internally it has the same sensor as the E8 - a much more expensive model ($1k vs $5k) that does 320x240. The hack was made for firmware 2.3.0 (and earlier), and allowed you to change the cameras OS to make it believe it was an E8, unlocking the full 320x240 resolution as well as a bunch of other useful menu options, leading to MUCH better image quality and much more accurate temperature readings (16x, in fact). The current E4s come with firmware 2.8.0, which cannot be modified and the ability to downgrade to 2.3.0 is fairly hit-and-miss. Good news is, though, that you can often buy a used E4 with 2.3.0 or earlier firmware for cheaper than a new one.
Loving the live mains voltage checker probes and bulb that's rather neat. Live mains seems to be occurring more frequently where it shouldn't be in recent videos so merited building a special tester.
So Clive, what's the best way to ensure devices that have USB ports on them aren't lazily slapped on and dangerously unsafe in a world where finding properly listed electronics is increasingly hard due to Amazon. I'm wary about this kind of stuff (thank you by the way) but my sister on the other hand isn't. She actually managed to blow the socket in her bathroom with a really bad curling iron (luckily since it was the bathroom they were GFCI sockets so nothing besides the socket was destroyed. She came out fine as well) and that had knocked a bit of sense into her when it comes to buying new products, but not things she already has. She has a nice little unlabeled power strip, not UL certified (has CE but that doesn't mean much when you can't verify it) which includes two USB ports on it. Whenever they're used, it whines like mad and gets way hotter than I would think it should which makes me doubt the circuitry in it.
If you don't know how to check a device for safety yourself, don't buy stuff on ebay or Amazon, especially if the seller isn't in the EU. Local sellers can't afford to sell dangerous products (but they can still sell crappy ones).
I too like myself a good old laid-back, chill, laissez-fair type a circuit :)) thanks for showing us all this stuff clive, makes for some very nice bed-time viewing indeed
You know what might be fun is to take a trip to poundland and gather a modest collection of electronic gizmos and see if you can build something more sophisticated out of the parts. Fun episode :)
that would make an interesting episode... However a similar challenge would be to get a load of poundland crap and then make something even more shit out of all of the parts. one rule, the finished product HAS to perform some sort of function at the end
Hi Clive .. Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to you and your family!! Been watching and learning from your posts for a while now .. Thank you .. Keep it up
eBay should take note of these videos, far to many parents will be totally ignorant to the dangers of these type of things. Trading standards should also be prosecuting any seller that sells this kind of stuff from a UK address. Scary to think that kids could be unwrapping these in a weeks time.
+The Ball Actually ebay takes customer protection so seriously that sellers basically have no rights and you can't really afford to be a seller unless you're a company who can absorb the losses from customers fucking you over. No matter how ridiculous the shit the customers come up with is, ebay _always_ sides with the buyer. The last time I sold something on ebay the cunt buying it reported it as not delivered, I sent the tracking number (which clearly showed the parcel _was_ delivered) to ebay and they still took my money and gave it back to the fucker. My friend was selling a DVR, the wank stain who bought it swapped the innards for his burnt out ones and returned it as not working. My friend demonstrated the serial number on the board no longer matched the one on the case, but that fuckwad still got his money back. So no, ebay _does_ care about buyers. Unfortunately they care to the point where individuals can no longer afford the risk of selling stuff on there.
eBay doesn't care about individual sellers like you, but power sellers from China get away with murder constantly. There are absolutely no standards. I'm currently dealing with some BS seller who claims the items were located in the US when clearly they were shipped from overseas causing huge delays.
Clive how would you go about changing this so that you had proper isolation and still had the AC input? Do you have something in your collection that you could build?
It can be adapted to charge from a USB charger with just a diode and maybe a low value resistor to limit peak current. I did it in another video about these.
@@bigclivedotcom I was thinking that it could be a little design heads up on how to make safe power supplies. It might come in handy for people that want to power other things from the mains and need a different voltage or more output. Would that be something you would want to tackle?
Alternatively, rip the panel off because who cares about trickle charging them out in the sun, rip out the mains connector, rip out the crappy NiMh cells, drop in a conservative lithium, or an 18650 if you want a baller camp light, and a TP 4056 charge controller. Glue all that crap in with super professional hot glue, and you've fixed it. Some Chinese products are great. You just have to look over some of them before you use them. I've got a really nice 0-30V 0-5A bench power supply that I use CONSTANTLY from China. Paid $50 for it, even got a deal because eBay had a nice promo code sale thingy. I routinely pin that thing at 5A charging stuff for hours and hours at a time and it's been a champ, though I did replace the obnoxiously loud fan with a nice high flow quiet one. Only thing is the volt meter is .4V off, so when it says 4.6V it's at 5, etc. Yay China.
I think a good video would be to modify one of the other ones to safely charge from the mains, keeping all of the features of the original death version except the feature that provides potentially fatal shock.
In all seriousness, why would they make these things with a mains input if they're too cheap to design it safely? Wouldn't it be just as cheap and low cost for the manufacturers to use have a standard USB client port be it a Micro USB or Mini USB port as the power input so you would just charge it with a standard USB power supply? That would be not only practical but also completely safe on paper at least. I know that people will start making conspiracy theories about it, but apart from that, why would they design the silly thing the way they did?
Because all they care about is getting dollars or sterling etc.; a big part of the Chinese economy is currency manipulation. The "west" is so focused on the short term bottom line that most politicians daren't say so and even fewer will do something about it. As long as we are dumb enough to keep buying cheap crap that's just a facsimile of the real thing, they will continue to make it.
And again i got a question for you Clive. I hope you don't mind. Have you came across a reliable 18650 protection board? Maybe one that can handle them in series (because i don't want to step up and then step down)? Or do you think simply getting some protected Samsung would be better?
You can buy protection modules for lithium cells on eBay that are designed for a wide number of cells. They combine protection and balancing of the cells.
bigclivedotcom I was looking for those and foud out, that not all of them have balancing. Most circuits only have protection but no balancing. The listing has to say "with balancing" or "w balancing"
+bigclivedotcom sometime ago I read someone saying: what if the chip (a tiny processor) on these cheap protection boards freezes and doesn't turn off the charging circuitry once the Li-Ions are 'full'. I guess this really could happen ?
I got unprotected cells and in the beginning used a cheap china charger which did actually fail to cut off the charging power. The batteries vented, there was steam/smoke and hot sizzling "Battery juice" dripping into the charger. Luckly i only use high quality ones, Samsung 25s or Sony VTC4 and such. They all fail in a controlled manner. Today i use a really good charger Opus something something. And it has never happened again. But i've seen the cheap batteries (basically every one that has "fire" in the name) seriously blowing up in tests with failed chargers. And they really go bang, including flames and such. Search "18650 exploding" on TH-cam for some examples. There is some serious amount of energy in there. I mean, you can actually weld with those things.... There was also an incident where somebody melted his keychain because he had an unprotected 18650 in the same pocket as his keys... AFAIK, as long as you handle them safely, and buy good quality, they are not gonna explode on you.
So what do you do with all this stuff you buy/receive? Do you take them to a car boot sale or something? I suppose most of the stuff you probably throw away/recycle since it's too dangerous to flog.
Hi Big Clive, I've noticed you do a lot of live tests on USB ports. Would a neon lamp connecting the Vcc + Gnd be a useful gadget (perhaps wrapped in heat shrink to give you a little protection)?
Time for all Daleks to leave the church and live free, regardless of their orientation. I've got some odd images in my head of 200 Daleks assembled in a 17th century church for service. Think of the hymns. EXCELLENT episode, Clive! I think the reverse engineering and complete rebuild is a *fantastic* way for people to learn. Sister Boom Boom would have LOVED your channel. RIP.
0:55 "iPoons" Giggity. 1:12 "Not something you want to finger too much" GIGGITY 3:11 "Let's open up the other end, because that's where the interesting bits are" *GIGGITY!*
Hi Clive. Pretty much watch (nearly) all of your videos :) I'd be putting the 5ohm up to in the positive side. This would prevent the potential case of the USB in and USB out having a shared ground reference, shorting out the resistor and bypassing both your protection plans and current limiting to LEDS.
Why the heck they can't just stick to mini/micro USB INPUT for charging, no safety isues there...and could be charged with any mobile phone/tablet charger. Micro USB chargers are likely easier to find around than two pin mains voltage wire&plug...
Notable shock? You mean blown off your feet landing hard at least until something soild stops You! Then hoping you don't go into cardiac arrhythmia. Love the Scottish no nonsense approach.
I decided to invest in one of those solder stations and ended up with one by a company called Mark Ethan. Seems like there are a bunch of ever so slightly different clones available. Really useful for the price though. I love how fast the iron and gun heat up so you don't have to leave it switched on all day in case you need it.
It isn't really 5V. It has a capacitative dropper, which is kinda current limiting, but not actually voltage regulating. (The load of the batteries kinda drag the relative output of the USB leads to 4-5 volts in normal use.) The danger is when you touch one of the USB leads and something referenced to ground, like a water tap or the metal casing on your stereo, then you get unlimited 240 volts through your body. (every other half wave)
Imagine a 9V battery with one terminal connected to the mains supply. You still measure 9V across the battery, but you'd get a full mains electric shock to ground if you touched it.
Voltage is always a difference. What that difference is depends on your reference point. The USB socket shield is 5V "different" from the other pin in the socket, but at the same time 230V "different" from ground/earth. And since you are mostly standing on ground that's the difference that counts.
I've got the same model heat gun and it's a bit dangerous. The nozzle and the metal surround in the front isn't earthed properly. Mine has just a bit of flimsy wire wrapped around a hole in metal shield. Resistance to mains earth is >1 Ohm. Second funny death trap is the connector on the station. One of its pins is potentially connected directly to live, even when the station is turned off, because the switch only disconnects either live or neutral and not both. Apart from that, it's a useful tool.
I've seen almost the same thing ( it's a Stihl promotional item ) at our local hardware store. It's just battery powered though. Someone must be looking out for us in the states.
The voltage would be higher with 4 cells of course, but at full charge under open-circuit conditions, the voltage would be 4 * 1.5 V = 6 V, which exceeds the maximum voltage according the USB specifications (5.25 V). I think 4 cells combined with a low-dropout linear regulator should work reasonably well for powering a USB port.
Can the solar ever harm the batteries if they are fresh or happen to get enough charge to get full? Just curious as I notice there is nothing between them, I kinda figured there would be several components to keep something like that from happening, would be nice if its not necessary! :) Thanks! Great videos as always!
I would like to meet the guy who made the schematics for these..did he make it like that on purpose? oh let me make sure the mains are connected to all the exposed metals lol
I believe he actually wanted to make something useful for his community. And earn a little money with that. Then he found a book with DIY circuits. But he and his friends and acquaintances didn't knew nothing about safety since their community mentally still live in stone age.
The 2021 versions of these lights are still available for sale on Ebay ( Amazon has the BigClive versions with a USB charging port) though some of them have changed the mains charger to say "DC Charging" or one that has said that the mains charger is a "Micro USB". Sad that this sort of stuff is still being sold.
You mentioned you're able to do the hack on the Dalek equipped with the battery compartment, would it complicate things if I left the internal batteries attached?
does the death feature depend on which way round the mains plug is plugged in?i.e if neutral is on the zero volt line, then isnt the live wire dropped down to 5volts and therefore safe?
It's a gamble between there being a diode between you and the mains and having a diode and capacitor between you and the mains. A capacitor that will happily pass enough current to at the very least ruin your day.
I suppose the battery pack passes enough current to pull the voltage down to about 5 V, and if the capacitor is on the line, the 5 V will be relative to the neutral, which should be grounded, so then it would in principle be "safe" (as long as the battery pack doesn't go open circuit, which I don't think is very likely), but if the capacitor is on the neutral, the 5 V will be relative to the line and you will have practically full mains voltage relative to ground on the USB port. It has an unpolarized Chinese plug, so it's a 50/50 chance.
Hey Clive it was suggested in a previous video but you might not have seen it -- if you put a dark red gel over the display on the usb current/voltage meter then it might show up in vids better. It worked for old school calculators and tvs.
Very cool...what is the output of the solar panel, could a mod be used to route the output thru a TP4056 w/ current protection module, and say a flat pack old cell phone battery be used?
The solar panel is not terribly effective. You could add the module out of a small power bank and make the unit very useful. An external solar panel could be used to charge it.
I think the designers are missing a marketing 'feature' here. They should also say it has a magic mains inverter built in* *= note only works when plugged into the mains
Hi Clive I found one of these lanterns in my local $2 shop over here in melbourne,victoria, australia and apparently I was told from the shop owner that the charging socket is to charge the lantern via 12v dc like from a car cigarette lighter socket and not for connecting up to 240v ac you can get a 12v lead with cigarette lighter plug designed for portable 12v fridges that will fit into this lantern.
@@bigclivedotcom But the live would be behind the capacitive dropper with only neutral getting an unrestricted path to the exposed parts. The battery keeps the dropper loaded so the voltage stays near the other mains pin (neutral). It's not safe, only less dangerous.
What would happen if you plugged that new USB charging cable into the USB port? Just charging but slowly drawing current due to the other components, or a pop?
Imagine a 9V battery connected to a live wire. You can still measure 9V across it, but if you touch it while referenced to ground you will get a mains voltage shock.
Hello. I really enjoy your videos. and how you present the schematics. I am self taught when it comes to electronics. and can use some advice. or help. I need to parallel several MOSFETs. to switch a few hundred amps. I don't see how the tiny legs on a to220 package get can handle anything near 100 amps. the FETs I was thinking of using is like 80v 150a . I know that's like best case capacity rating. and the real world will be different . can you do a video on paralleling FETs. or reply with some advice. it would be a great help. I wish you all happy holidays. and thanks
The original dalek light (gold one) used a Schottky diode because it only had 9 sections of solar cell to begin with, so was already down by 0.5V. Therefore the Schottky diode with 9 solar sections gave the same sort of output as these with the standard diodes. They're basically hoping that you do most of your charging through the mains - along with all of the risks that allows, such as 240V USBs...
I see you often use the two-resistor load (1Ato «empty» the lithium cells. As far as I can see, those resistors are rated for 10W, but how hot do they actually get when used?
Ah, right. I got some 10Ω 5W carbon resistors and thought to use those to “empty” some cells to test their capacity. The resistors are rated for up to 200°C, but my Flir phone showed the temperature to “stabilise” around 140°C after just a short while, so I don’t dare keeping it connected for long, and not when I cannot keep a close eye on them…
What sort of lights do you have installed in your home? I'm curious because you're a somewhat of an expert in lighting. Also do you have a lamp that you carry with you every day?
Functional lights are modified Poundland lamps and decent LED filament lamps, but most lights are custom built for visual effect and background illumination.
Have you thought of converting one to Lithium Ion? The converter boards are relatively cheap. maybe use a cell phone type battery. might be interesting.
Via the bridge rectifier. Depending on the orientation of the two pin plug at either end there would either be a diode between you and the live cable or a diode and large capacitor capable of passing enough current to ruin your day completely.
Random question not related to video: where can you but bulk LEDs on wire? like Xmas strings only with no plug or circuit so you can use them at what ever length you so choose with a circuit of your choosing without having to stick all the LEDs into an existing string light.
@@bigclivedotcom I'm big dork and just shrieked that you answered. I have learned so much from you and have taught your schematics and lessons/projects in my high school electrical engineering class. And, bonus, if I can't sleep put you on! Big TY from CA!
How excitingly large would the bang be if one was to plug a phone in to a mains-powered audio amplifier (with a 3.5mm cable) whilst charging from the dalek? I think this requires testing :P
Well, let's see, assuming that the 3.5 is referenced to case ground on the phone (which it probably is?), and the inputs on the stereo are referenced to case ground on the stereo... it would probably create a burst of sparks and trip your breaker or the RCD/GFCI if you have one. Or, if you are like me and have an ungrounded stereo receiver from the 1960's, the entire case of your stereo would become live.
I just checked on my phone (with a multimeter, not a gay Dalek, so no bang (un)fortunately), and the USB ground is indeed connected to the audio ground, so it would indeed go bang if connected to a grounded amplifier.
Seems totally safe hahaha :). Your videos are great. Enjoy them. I have been wondering where you get those usb test devices you have? Would be handy in the IT world.
The charger doctor, that is how this one in the video is called, is even available on Amazon and stuff, if you buy from China it is much cheaper though c: I got 2 things, the charger doctor and one with an extra lead an mAh measuring for capacity tests, the Charger Doctor one seems to be off, some times the voltage just drops when you touch it, or just without any touching. Also does the ampere. But the one with the lead is perfectly fine, but is limited from 0,07A to 3,71A (doesn't show less than 0,07A and 3,71A is the limit shown, even if you put in much more), whilst the Charger Doctor already measured stuff up to 6A despite only being rated for 3A :D (and also measures down to 0,01A pretty precisely, before running out of digits)
I like the blue Keweisi USB charger doctor things with the inverted LCD because they show voltage, current and mAh all at the same time. the display is nice too
what would happen if the mains side had a miniature mains isolation transformer on the mains side ? I suspect there would still be a high voltage on the USB casing but the current flow would not be wanting to get to earth. you would still get a shock
How useful is it even, to charge a USB device from NiMh cells? They don't even provide the full 5V. Maybe hack a small powerbank inside is much more useful.
@bigclivedotcom Cloning basic equipment is very common in China; you will see the same case used by multiple manufacturers. In amateur ("ham") radio the Chinese make these VHF-UHF 5w transceivers and various companies share basic cases and sometimes the circuitboards because those radios aren't the big-ticket items (those are the multiband truck radios.) For example, compare the old TYT TH-F8 case to the Baofeng UV-5R and it's the same unit.
"The button's not live, that's nice".
It's amazing how quick your safety standards can drop when you order stuff of eBay! ;-)
"The button's not live, that's a nice feature" Hero!
Touching the button and saying that has the same energy as "I don't think our death ray is working. I'm standing in it and I'm not dead!"
Are you planning on doing a teardown of that soldering/SMD station you have? I just bought one, but of course I double checked your channel to see if there was anything on it.
Non-live button, _feature_ on Chinese appliances. :-)
its shoking to see how bad these things are made i had a light that is the same concept but with a hand crank and evry single time i charged it by mains power the crank started spinning
It's not a flaw it's a feature.
Avamander / either way it was funny untill it blew out the battries
ExCaliberGame hahaha thats awesome. how fast did it go?
it is indeed..."shocking"
not run backwards, but run slower forwards yes !!
I have grown addicted to your videos :) And your voice lulls me to sleep through the pain .
I just want to make sure I understand the current path that causes the mains voltage to appear on the USB port.
So a shock risk exists if you plug the mains cord in backwards (this puts the dropper capacitor in series with the neutral instead of the live) from the circuits perspective this doesn't make any difference since it's still in series with the dropper capacitor and will still work normally.
However when you touch USB negative you're essentially bypassing the dropper capacitor on the neutral through the ground to neutral bonding connection at the main panel and because the capacitor isn't in series with the hot you will receive a full mains voltage shock minus the negligible .7 volt drop of the bridge rectifier?
Are you planning a death-Dalek army?
🤔
Genaro Ian Or maybe a gay Dalek party?
or maybe both
Either way, you know it's gonna be *fabulous*!
ILUMINATE!!! ILUMINATE!!!
Would it be possible to squeeze a boost converter in there so you could get that USB port up to the proper voltage?
Yeah, search for eBay "usb step up" would be perfect size.
Shockingly brilliant, or brilliantly shocking?
Let's find out!
We got some of those hot air guns at work. They worked quite well but we did have to add in an earth wire in the base to get the metal heating element shield to pass the PAT test.
"How much pressure do I use before my spudger suddenly changes shape?"
I love your videos.... your smartassed remarks are wonderful and your electrical knowledge is amazing
... good job mate
watching these and hearing you talk about getting shocked reminds me of when i had to use an electric saw on some stuff while standing in a puddle. far from being a fatal shock, but also far from a fun one. i said bad things and got out of the puddle, then made sure it would not happen again, and got back to work.
PAAAAARTY! Where is the PAAAAAAAARTY?!
5:38 That's odd.
3 Nimh cells at 5.04v? unless the USB meter is way off, it means 1,68v per cell and that's extremely high even for a freshly charged cell. Is there a chance that they used primary alkaline cells, making it even more dangerous then it already is?
yeah they're probably charging this thing using alkaline cells!
yeah that voltage indicates alkaline cells, since even fully charged Ni-MH is only about 1.5V - 1.55V each, not almost 1.7V. You can get 1.6V - 1.7V from primary cells such as alkaline or Zinc Carbon.
You rip the shit out of every crummy bit of electronics, but with some expertise and a smooth tone that makes it much better than shouting alot and throwing it against the wall :D Love it !
The only voltage regulation in the original circuit is the NiMH cells. It would be funny if it fried your phone, wouldn't it? Then when you pulled the charred remains out of the charger, it fried you for an encore.
It's voltage regulation and overvoltage protection with manual feedback. If you hear the sounds of cells bulging, smell something funny or start seeing smoke coming out of battery chamber (see, it accomodates 3 senses so it's safe to use even by handicapped people) it means that voltage is too big and you gotta pull out the mains plug. If you phone doesn't charge it means that voltage is too low.
Can we learn more about the FLIR hack?
It's a hack where you can get the camera to use a higher resolution, making the image equivalent to the E8's.
Someone did a video explaining it, I think it was EEVBlog.
In case anyone doesn't want to google, the hack is essentially this:
The FLIR E4 normally has a resolution of 80x60, however internally it has the same sensor as the E8 - a much more expensive model ($1k vs $5k) that does 320x240.
The hack was made for firmware 2.3.0 (and earlier), and allowed you to change the cameras OS to make it believe it was an E8, unlocking the full 320x240 resolution as well as a bunch of other useful menu options, leading to MUCH better image quality and much more accurate temperature readings (16x, in fact).
The current E4s come with firmware 2.8.0, which cannot be modified and the ability to downgrade to 2.3.0 is fairly hit-and-miss. Good news is, though, that you can often buy a used E4 with 2.3.0 or earlier firmware for cheaper than a new one.
Loving the live mains voltage checker probes and bulb that's rather neat. Live mains seems to be occurring more frequently where it shouldn't be in recent videos so merited building a special tester.
So Clive, what's the best way to ensure devices that have USB ports on them aren't lazily slapped on and dangerously unsafe in a world where finding properly listed electronics is increasingly hard due to Amazon. I'm wary about this kind of stuff (thank you by the way) but my sister on the other hand isn't. She actually managed to blow the socket in her bathroom with a really bad curling iron (luckily since it was the bathroom they were GFCI sockets so nothing besides the socket was destroyed. She came out fine as well) and that had knocked a bit of sense into her when it comes to buying new products, but not things she already has. She has a nice little unlabeled power strip, not UL certified (has CE but that doesn't mean much when you can't verify it) which includes two USB ports on it. Whenever they're used, it whines like mad and gets way hotter than I would think it should which makes me doubt the circuitry in it.
If you don't know how to check a device for safety yourself, don't buy stuff on ebay or Amazon, especially if the seller isn't in the EU. Local sellers can't afford to sell dangerous products (but they can still sell crappy ones).
I too like myself a good old laid-back, chill, laissez-fair type a circuit :)) thanks for showing us all this stuff clive, makes for some very nice bed-time viewing indeed
You know what might be fun is to take a trip to poundland and gather a modest collection of electronic gizmos and see if you can build something more sophisticated out of the parts. Fun episode :)
that would make an interesting episode...
However a similar challenge would be to get a load of poundland crap and then make something even more shit out of all of the parts.
one rule, the finished product HAS to perform some sort of function at the end
Jeez man between your calm voice and it being 1 am for me I have almost fallen asleep like 5 times
I really like these videos about the death-Dalek lights. Please do more, in case you find one of reasonable quality that's electrically sound.
A glass of wine and a evening with big Clive you can't beat it
Clive, that little NiMh/Solar Panel bank you have in you hand at 15:48 is borderline genius, and now I want to build something similar...
Hi Clive .. Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to you and your family!! Been watching and learning from your posts for a while now .. Thank you .. Keep it up
eBay should take note of these videos, far to many parents will be totally ignorant to the dangers of these type of things. Trading standards should also be prosecuting any seller that sells this kind of stuff from a UK address. Scary to think that kids could be unwrapping these in a weeks time.
LOL what planet are you from? eBay doesn't care of sellers steal your money, let alone if they cause electrical burns
100SteveB ebay doesnt give a fuck
+The Ball Actually ebay takes customer protection so seriously that sellers basically have no rights and you can't really afford to be a seller unless you're a company who can absorb the losses from customers fucking you over. No matter how ridiculous the shit the customers come up with is, ebay _always_ sides with the buyer. The last time I sold something on ebay the cunt buying it reported it as not delivered, I sent the tracking number (which clearly showed the parcel _was_ delivered) to ebay and they still took my money and gave it back to the fucker. My friend was selling a DVR, the wank stain who bought it swapped the innards for his burnt out ones and returned it as not working. My friend demonstrated the serial number on the board no longer matched the one on the case, but that fuckwad still got his money back.
So no, ebay _does_ care about buyers. Unfortunately they care to the point where individuals can no longer afford the risk of selling stuff on there.
eBay doesn't care about individual sellers like you, but power sellers from China get away with murder constantly. There are absolutely no standards. I'm currently dealing with some BS seller who claims the items were located in the US when clearly they were shipped from overseas causing huge delays.
So if you wanted to have this run safely with mains voltage input instead of the USB, would it require a transformer? Just learning here. :P
You could use an isolation transformer, but a proper low voltage charging supply would be safest.
Allright, that makes sense. Thanks for replying and keep making those video's. :D
Clive how would you go about changing this so that you had proper isolation and still had the AC input? Do you have something in your collection that you could build?
It can be adapted to charge from a USB charger with just a diode and maybe a low value resistor to limit peak current. I did it in another video about these.
@@bigclivedotcom I was thinking that it could be a little design heads up on how to make safe power supplies. It might come in handy for people that want to power other things from the mains and need a different voltage or more output. Would that be something you would want to tackle?
Alternatively, rip the panel off because who cares about trickle charging them out in the sun, rip out the mains connector, rip out the crappy NiMh cells, drop in a conservative lithium, or an 18650 if you want a baller camp light, and a TP 4056 charge controller. Glue all that crap in with super professional hot glue, and you've fixed it.
Some Chinese products are great. You just have to look over some of them before you use them. I've got a really nice 0-30V 0-5A bench power supply that I use CONSTANTLY from China. Paid $50 for it, even got a deal because eBay had a nice promo code sale thingy. I routinely pin that thing at 5A charging stuff for hours and hours at a time and it's been a champ, though I did replace the obnoxiously loud fan with a nice high flow quiet one. Only thing is the volt meter is .4V off, so when it says 4.6V it's at 5, etc. Yay China.
Interesting Project & Products There Clive. Keep up the great work. Nick.
Hey Clive , Whats the most voltage that shocked u ?
Mine is a running motorcycle sparkplug .
Today I learnt
Its not smart to finger usb ports
Oh yes forget to put that part in😂
It's not smart to finger USB ports unless they got tested. Great life advice overall.
And if you are fingering USB ports, safe or not, you should probably re-evaluate your life.
***** Careful, you might catch a tingle sensation on there.
lol
You sir, are fkn awesome. Thanks for being dedicated to teaching us on a continual basis BigC.
Given that I want to make a “camping light” for power outages and the like, I’m glad you’re showing what *NOT* to do.
I think a good video would be to modify one of the other ones to safely charge from the mains, keeping all of the features of the original death version except the feature that provides potentially fatal shock.
That would involve a properly isolating transformer, either traditional or switched (smaller, cheaper),
I almost gave my nephew one of those for Christmas. Glad I got him another kind that doesn't use mains.
In all seriousness, why would they make these things with a mains input if they're too cheap to design it safely? Wouldn't it be just as cheap and low cost for the manufacturers to use have a standard USB client port be it a Micro USB or Mini USB port as the power input so you would just charge it with a standard USB power supply? That would be not only practical but also completely safe on paper at least. I know that people will start making conspiracy theories about it, but apart from that, why would they design the silly thing the way they did?
Because all they care about is getting dollars or sterling etc.; a big part of the Chinese economy is currency manipulation. The "west" is so focused on the short term bottom line that most politicians daren't say so and even fewer will do something about it. As long as we are dumb enough to keep buying cheap crap that's just a facsimile of the real thing, they will continue to make it.
you're just a bear on a wire, Clive... (when you're touching those live wires) :)
Should the USB connection not be isolated from the mains via a double insulated transformer.
And again i got a question for you Clive. I hope you don't mind.
Have you came across a reliable 18650 protection board?
Maybe one that can handle them in series (because i don't want to step up and then step down)? Or do you think simply getting some protected Samsung would be better?
You can buy protection modules for lithium cells on eBay that are designed for a wide number of cells. They combine protection and balancing of the cells.
bigclivedotcom I was looking for those and foud out, that not all of them have balancing. Most circuits only have protection but no balancing. The listing has to say "with balancing" or "w balancing"
oh then i guess i haven't searched correctly. Only found some for single cells. I will have a look again. Thanks!
+bigclivedotcom sometime ago I read someone saying: what if the chip (a tiny processor) on these cheap protection boards freezes and doesn't turn off the charging circuitry once the Li-Ions are 'full'. I guess this really could happen ?
I got unprotected cells and in the beginning used a cheap china charger which did actually fail to cut off the charging power.
The batteries vented, there was steam/smoke and hot sizzling "Battery juice" dripping into the charger.
Luckly i only use high quality ones, Samsung 25s or Sony VTC4 and such. They all fail in a controlled manner. Today i use a really good charger Opus something something. And it has never happened again.
But i've seen the cheap batteries (basically every one that has "fire" in the name) seriously blowing up in tests with failed chargers.
And they really go bang, including flames and such.
Search "18650 exploding" on TH-cam for some examples. There is some serious amount of energy in there. I mean, you can actually weld with those things....
There was also an incident where somebody melted his keychain because he had an unprotected 18650 in the same pocket as his keys...
AFAIK, as long as you handle them safely, and buy good quality, they are not gonna explode on you.
Just add one of the tiny step up boards for driving a USB socket from a single lipo cell, then you'll actually get 5v out!
Hey, is that a Motorola Moto G gen2 4G you flashed there?
I've got the one, plus the same casing .. (however, mine is all black)
So what do you do with all this stuff you buy/receive? Do you take them to a car boot sale or something? I suppose most of the stuff you probably throw away/recycle since it's too dangerous to flog.
Hi Big Clive,
I've noticed you do a lot of live tests on USB ports. Would a neon lamp connecting the Vcc + Gnd be a useful gadget (perhaps wrapped in heat shrink to give you a little protection)?
It has to be referenced to mains ground, as there will still be 5V between the USB power connections.
Ah yes, I still haven't had my morning coffee yet.
Thanks for replying :)
So I'm guessing this one is a straight Dalek? =-(
Amazing there is more than one model.
This Dalek is still in denial because it knows the church does not approve of Dalek fornication.
I love you, Clive. Never change.
I like the gay daleks best!
Time for all Daleks to leave the church and live free, regardless of their orientation.
I've got some odd images in my head of 200 Daleks assembled in a 17th century church for service. Think of the hymns.
EXCELLENT episode, Clive! I think the reverse engineering and complete rebuild is a *fantastic* way for people to learn. Sister Boom Boom would have LOVED your channel. RIP.
0:55 "iPoons"
Giggity.
1:12 "Not something you want to finger too much"
GIGGITY
3:11 "Let's open up the other end, because that's where the interesting bits are"
*GIGGITY!*
Hi Clive. Pretty much watch (nearly) all of your videos :)
I'd be putting the 5ohm up to in the positive side. This would prevent the potential case of the USB in and USB out having a shared ground reference, shorting out the resistor and bypassing both your protection plans and current limiting to LEDS.
Why the heck they can't just stick to mini/micro USB INPUT for charging, no safety isues there...and could be charged with any mobile phone/tablet charger.
Micro USB chargers are likely easier to find around than two pin mains voltage wire&plug...
Two-prong charger cables are cheap.
what _is_ that random usb stick you used? the one with what looks like two cells on the back. :)
Notable shock? You mean blown off your feet landing hard at least until something soild stops You! Then hoping you don't go into cardiac arrhythmia. Love the Scottish no nonsense approach.
I decided to invest in one of those solder stations and ended up with one by a company called Mark Ethan. Seems like there are a bunch of ever so slightly different clones available. Really useful for the price though. I love how fast the iron and gun heat up so you don't have to leave it switched on all day in case you need it.
I don't get it. How is the USB both at 5 volts and 230 volts at the same time?
It isn't really 5V. It has a capacitative dropper, which is kinda current limiting, but not actually voltage regulating. (The load of the batteries kinda drag the relative output of the USB leads to 4-5 volts in normal use.) The danger is when you touch one of the USB leads and something referenced to ground, like a water tap or the metal casing on your stereo, then you get unlimited 240 volts through your body. (every other half wave)
Imagine a 9V battery with one terminal connected to the mains supply. You still measure 9V across the battery, but you'd get a full mains electric shock to ground if you touched it.
Voltage is always a difference. What that difference is depends on your reference point. The USB socket shield is 5V "different" from the other pin in the socket, but at the same time 230V "different" from ground/earth. And since you are mostly standing on ground that's the difference that counts.
I've got the same model heat gun and it's a bit dangerous. The nozzle and the metal surround in the front isn't earthed properly. Mine has just a bit of flimsy wire wrapped around a hole in metal shield. Resistance to mains earth is >1 Ohm. Second funny death trap is the connector on the station. One of its pins is potentially connected directly to live, even when the station is turned off, because the switch only disconnects either live or neutral and not both. Apart from that, it's a useful tool.
that solar panel looks quality....
I've seen almost the same thing ( it's a Stihl promotional item ) at our local hardware store. It's just battery powered though. Someone must be looking out for us in the states.
Would the USB output be better with 4 NiMH cells? (Obviously not good for this LED circuit)?
The voltage would be higher with 4 cells of course, but at full charge under open-circuit conditions, the voltage would be 4 * 1.5 V = 6 V, which exceeds the maximum voltage according the USB specifications (5.25 V). I think 4 cells combined with a low-dropout linear regulator should work reasonably well for powering a USB port.
How much does it charge with the solar panel? A fair bit will get used by the "charging" LED I guess?
Can the solar ever harm the batteries if they are fresh or happen to get enough charge to get full? Just curious as I notice there is nothing between them, I kinda figured there would be several components to keep something like that from happening, would be nice if its not necessary! :) Thanks! Great videos as always!
The solar panel is very low current, and Nicad and NiMh cells can tolerate continuous low level trickle charging.
I would like to meet the guy who made the schematics for these..did he make it like that on purpose? oh let me make sure the mains are connected to all the exposed metals lol
I bet the designer was a bullied child and fancied one day getting his revenge on everyone
Maybe 😂
He was trying to wire the ground to the case but he was so pathetic he wired the positive instead
Probably was some farmer that knew very little about electronics that designed it for his uncly that started a factory in his barn or something.
I believe he actually wanted to make something useful for his community. And earn a little money with that. Then he found a book with DIY circuits. But he and his friends and acquaintances didn't knew nothing about safety since their community mentally still live in stone age.
The 2021 versions of these lights are still available for sale on Ebay ( Amazon has the BigClive versions with a USB charging port) though some of them have changed the mains charger to say "DC Charging" or one that has said that the mains charger is a "Micro USB". Sad that this sort of stuff is still being sold.
Some have switched to a USB charging port.
You mentioned you're able to do the hack on the Dalek equipped with the battery compartment, would it complicate things if I left the internal batteries attached?
If you try and recharge ordinary alkaline cells they pressurise internally and can vent.
Only the Doctor can save you after a run in with a Death Dalek.
does the death feature depend on which way round the mains plug is plugged in?i.e if neutral is on the zero volt line, then isnt the live wire dropped down to 5volts and therefore safe?
tim bo i don't think you can plug it in any other way. The UK plugs only go in one way, and the plug on the light side is one way as well.
It's a gamble between there being a diode between you and the mains and having a diode and capacitor between you and the mains. A capacitor that will happily pass enough current to at the very least ruin your day.
bigclivedotcom But...that's how I party...
I suppose the battery pack passes enough current to pull the voltage down to about 5 V, and if the capacitor is on the line, the 5 V will be relative to the neutral, which should be grounded, so then it would in principle be "safe" (as long as the battery pack doesn't go open circuit, which I don't think is very likely), but if the capacitor is on the neutral, the 5 V will be relative to the line and you will have practically full mains voltage relative to ground on the USB port. It has an unpolarized Chinese plug, so it's a 50/50 chance.
Hey Clive it was suggested in a previous video but you might not have seen it -- if you put a dark red gel over the display on the usb current/voltage meter then it might show up in vids better. It worked for old school calculators and tvs.
Very cool...what is the output of the solar panel, could a mod be used to route the output thru a TP4056 w/ current protection module, and say a flat pack old cell phone battery be used?
The solar panel is not terribly effective. You could add the module out of a small power bank and make the unit very useful. An external solar panel could be used to charge it.
Clive, how is it your not referenced to ground? Are you using an isolation transformer?
Rubber soles, dry wooden floor and nothing grounded in contact with me.
I think the designers are missing a marketing 'feature' here.
They should also say it has a magic mains inverter built in*
*= note only works when plugged into the mains
Hi Clive I found one of these lanterns in my local $2 shop over here in melbourne,victoria, australia and apparently I was told from the shop owner that the charging socket is to charge the lantern via 12v dc like from a car cigarette lighter socket and not for connecting up to 240v ac
you can get a 12v lead with cigarette lighter plug designed for portable 12v fridges that will fit into this lantern.
On these ones it's definitely for an AC supply. It would do virtually nothing on a DC supply as there is a capacitor in series.
"I like a nice, laid-back electronic scenario."
😂
Would turning around the mains plug make it significantly less dangerous by only making it live at neutral voltage plus 4V ?
No. The rectifier will divert either pin to the output.
@@bigclivedotcom But the live would be behind the capacitive dropper with only neutral getting an unrestricted path to the exposed parts. The battery keeps the dropper loaded so the voltage stays near the other mains pin (neutral). It's not safe, only less dangerous.
What would happen if you plugged that new USB charging cable into the USB port? Just charging but slowly drawing current due to the other components, or a pop?
It wouldn't do anything.
is this maybe an elite expeditionary force, dalek probes carrying out recconnaisance before an impending invasion?
Can someone please explain how the voltage is still at mains if it goes through a capacitive dropper, yet it also shows 5v?
Imagine a 9V battery connected to a live wire. You can still measure 9V across it, but if you touch it while referenced to ground you will get a mains voltage shock.
Hi. I'm really interested in the Flir E4 hack. Will you do a video about this? :)
Hello. I really enjoy your videos. and how you present the schematics. I am self taught when it comes to electronics. and can use some advice. or help. I need to parallel several MOSFETs. to switch a few hundred amps. I don't see how the tiny legs on a to220 package get can handle anything near 100 amps. the FETs I was thinking of using is like 80v 150a . I know that's like best case capacity rating. and the real world will be different . can you do a video on paralleling FETs. or reply with some advice. it would be a great help. I wish you all happy holidays. and thanks
The original dalek light (gold one) used a Schottky diode because it only had 9 sections of solar cell to begin with, so was already down by 0.5V. Therefore the Schottky diode with 9 solar sections gave the same sort of output as these with the standard diodes.
They're basically hoping that you do most of your charging through the mains - along with all of the risks that allows, such as 240V USBs...
I see you often use the two-resistor load (1Ato «empty» the lithium cells. As far as I can see, those resistors are rated for 10W, but how hot do they actually get when used?
I just use them briefly as they do get hot.
Ah, right. I got some 10Ω 5W carbon resistors and thought to use those to “empty” some cells to test their capacity. The resistors are rated for up to 200°C, but my Flir phone showed the temperature to “stabilise” around 140°C after just a short while, so I don’t dare keeping it connected for long, and not when I cannot keep a close eye on them…
What would happen if you plugged the USB into the socket on the other side
Ben That would cause a feedback loop in the time-space comtinuum and create a black hole that would suck...
Hadron Collider time
Gay Dalek would prefer Large Hardon Collider...
What sort of lights do you have installed in your home? I'm curious because you're a somewhat of an expert in lighting. Also do you have a lamp that you carry with you every day?
Functional lights are modified Poundland lamps and decent LED filament lamps, but most lights are custom built for visual effect and background illumination.
Does that mean that Neo was an electron? He returned to the source.
The manufacturer must be watching your videos and going "oh shit, 240V goes to the USB Port... fark" ... surely...
Let start with facts that manufacturer have TH-cam blocked by Great China Firewall and don't know English.
Clive what's the name of the USB led lamp you plug in the port and where can you get the. But not the pink one I want to use it on my power bank.
www.ebay.com/itm/221819179481
no problem Clive bought up all the Pink ones :D
Poundland have started selling powerbanks. Would you be able to have a look inside them and see if theyre the same as the poundworld ones
Have you thought of converting one to Lithium Ion? The converter boards are relatively cheap. maybe use a cell phone type battery. might be interesting.
How exactly did mains voltage make it way to the USB port?Am I missing something?
Via the bridge rectifier. Depending on the orientation of the two pin plug at either end there would either be a diode between you and the live cable or a diode and large capacitor capable of passing enough current to ruin your day completely.
Random question not related to video: where can you but bulk LEDs on wire? like Xmas strings only with no plug or circuit so you can use them at what ever length you so choose with a circuit of your choosing without having to stick all the LEDs into an existing string light.
Oh and just so you know, I Googled it but only found a few bulk at outrageous prices.
The copper wire solar or USB strings can usually be used as a source of cuttable parallel LEDs.
@@bigclivedotcom I'm big dork and just shrieked that you answered. I have learned so much from you and have taught your schematics and lessons/projects in my high school electrical engineering class. And, bonus, if I can't sleep put you on! Big TY from CA!
Is there away fix a problem with the light.? I'm new AT all this so so I would like to learn a little bit more. thank you man
How excitingly large would the bang be if one was to plug a phone in to a mains-powered audio amplifier (with a 3.5mm cable) whilst charging from the dalek? I think this requires testing :P
Well, let's see, assuming that the 3.5 is referenced to case ground on the phone (which it probably is?), and the inputs on the stereo are referenced to case ground on the stereo... it would probably create a burst of sparks and trip your breaker or the RCD/GFCI if you have one. Or, if you are like me and have an ungrounded stereo receiver from the 1960's, the entire case of your stereo would become live.
I just checked on my phone (with a multimeter, not a gay Dalek, so no bang (un)fortunately), and the USB ground is indeed connected to the audio ground, so it would indeed go bang if connected to a grounded amplifier.
The speak will explode
Seems totally safe hahaha :). Your videos are great. Enjoy them. I have been wondering where you get those usb test devices you have? Would be handy in the IT world.
All from Chinese suppliers on eBay. There's a huge range of stuff.
The charger doctor, that is how this one in the video is called, is even available on Amazon and stuff, if you buy from China it is much cheaper though c:
I got 2 things, the charger doctor and one with an extra lead an mAh measuring for capacity tests, the Charger Doctor one seems to be off, some times the voltage just drops when you touch it, or just without any touching. Also does the ampere. But the one with the lead is perfectly fine, but is limited from 0,07A to 3,71A (doesn't show less than 0,07A and 3,71A is the limit shown, even if you put in much more), whilst the Charger Doctor already measured stuff up to 6A despite only being rated for 3A :D (and also measures down to 0,01A pretty precisely, before running out of digits)
There's a huge range of stuff, but only some of it is trying to kill you....
I like the blue Keweisi USB charger doctor things with the inverted LCD because they show voltage, current and mAh all at the same time. the display is nice too
what would happen if the mains side had a miniature mains isolation transformer on the mains side ?
I suspect there would still be a high voltage on the USB casing but the current flow would not be wanting to get to earth. you would still get a shock
So do death Daleks say E-LEC-TRI-CUTE!! instead of EX-TER-MINATE!! ?
IL-LUM-IN-ATE!!! IL-LUM-IN-ATE!!!
I met a gardener Darlek once. it kept moving around the allotment shouting 'CUL-TIV-ATE, CUL-TIV-ATE. Rescue my siblings'
There is also the bulimic Dalek shouting "RE-GUR-GI-TATE, RE-GUR-GI-TATE" and the one in the skin care shop shouting "EX-FO-LI-ATE, EX-FO-LI-ATE"
The gay Darlek's shouting " EN-TER-MATE, EN-TER-MATE"
@@BillyNoMates1974I'm curious are garden Dalek internally was octopus-like creature? Or this one was more bush like?
How useful is it even, to charge a USB device from NiMh cells? They don't even provide the full 5V. Maybe hack a small powerbank inside is much more useful.
hi Clive is that test lamp something you've made yourself just a set of leads off a meter wired into the lamp holder ?
It's just something I roughed together.
bigclivedotcom Bodged/kludged/System D'd
just wondering, do you every notify trading standards, eBay or the vendor?
only other improvement I'd consider doing is adding a boost/buck converter to stabilize the output voltage.
I like your videos because you are saving me a lot of $ that I do not have to spend just to tear into them as well!
@bigclivedotcom
Cloning basic equipment is very common in China; you will see the same case used by multiple manufacturers. In amateur ("ham") radio the Chinese make these VHF-UHF 5w transceivers and various companies share basic cases and sometimes the circuitboards because those radios aren't the big-ticket items (those are the multiband truck radios.) For example, compare the old TYT TH-F8 case to the Baofeng UV-5R and it's the same unit.