Thrustmaster totally missed the boat on this. They should have released this YEARS ago. Most anybody who wanted this already bought one from Winwing and I highly doubt TM's will so far superior that it will convert many users. They really missed a golden opportunity here.
Certainly could have done with a sooner release! TM have left us waiting a long time for flight sim gear, tending to favour their range of Racing wheels/Gamepads.
Most definitely should have been sooner, like when the DCS F-16C module came out! I am having doubts about the mounting system, I have a Wheel Stand Pro setup and this throttle looks very incompatible! It looks like Velcro's in order, industrial strength!! Also, what about the gear handle lighting up??? I thought I saw it to were it would "light" up!
Always adore your reviews on these a ton, still personally right on the fence about getting a new HOTAS so these are very relevant to me and are a big part of what I will be using when I eventually and inevitably *do* decide to pull the trigger on one within the next couple years. Also love the Kerbal cameo
The Jammer switch just turns on the power to the Jammer. It’s in the cockpit next to the battery switch. I had a pilot mistake those two switches turning off the battery and blasting me with the EPU. Fun times….
Awesome review ! In the next review, I would like to know the difference between the Viper TQS and the Winwing F-16 throttle in detail. Thank you for your effort.
@@CobraSnakebite yeah but its a lot cooler to absolutely demolish a button that was made for that purpose than move your thumb a tiny bit for countermeasures
I find it so funny all of the TM haters in the comments are singing WW F-16 throttle praises, but the WW F-16 throttle grip has core controls that multiple reviews qualify as hard or impossible to use (one or both of the knobs). I think RedKite's own review of the WW F-16 throttle grip said it! In typical WinWing style, their option offers the most buttons, but definitely not the most well thought out placement for accessibility of those extras with reliable usage, and to my notice: frequently poor activation feedback. I have a CM3 I'm still happy using for literally every DCS module I fly, but if I were to go for an F-16 unique grip, it would be this one without question. I'm not a WW hater either -- I own an F-16EX joystick grip and appreciate it. I don't see a product I'd rather use in any price bracket for what I use it for. Button wise, of course it has the most, though when I fly the F-15E/C and F/A-18C I use The TM grip.
Agree, I own Winwing and seriously looking into replacing it with this one because of the MAN RNG/Uncage button as well as issues with the plastic buttons on winwing.
3 minutes in and I am already absolutely in love with this thing, but 10 years in and my warthog throttle is still going strong and I just don't think I can justify it.
Awesome review, really enjoyed it! Got currently the WINWING Viper throttle (on which I had to fix the ANT ELEV knob) but the Thrustmaster seems to be a good contender. Watching your vids for quite some time as you have a great knowledge about this stuff. Cheers
Out of interest, what happened to your Ant. elev? Mine recently had the rubber o ring split, had to replace it, wondering if this is becoming a common problem.
Hi Redkite, do I understand correctly that you have both the Winwing and TM Viper throttle? If so, could you please do a Winwing vs TM throttle review video?
OMFG!!!!! The website says this is $530???? WTF? For that ThrustMaster??? What world are they dreaming in?? To save my dad's life I would get ripped off and pay $530 for that thing!!!!
Falcon 5 won’t see the light of day for another 10 years if it even exists. Micropose has a line of announced games that have been stalled for years now that have precedence
Appreciate the straight forward review! That’s a lot of visible flex in $500+ throttle 😬 hopefully they get a bit more reasonable on the price after the initial release hype wears off.
Yeah, I would never trust Thrustmaster in terms of quality, durability and repairability. They just sell too much stuff with inexcusable flaws and no willingness to improve. Like the twist axis on the T16, or the plastic-bearing of the TWCS. Massive flaws, just to save pennies, likely hoping that people just dont bother returning when it breaks. I dont know how good WinWing is, but those companies generally have much more solid products and actually take feedback and improve. Or even the ability to repair them.
I own the WW version and yes this one looks like a toy, just like the Virpil throttle that I sold a few years ago. WW is heavy, solid, all metal no nonsense.
I"d be very interested to see that WW/TM comparison when you're ready. I'm still rocking a TQS with the Realsim USB adapter. I've been wanting to upgrade to WW for awhile but with this coming I'm torn. I really like WW swappable throttles idea, but I HATE their software. And for some reason I have an irrational dislike of how they did the manual ranging knob, turning it into that 5 way hat bugs me for reasons I cannot entirely explain
The idle cutoff position being an "on" button and off being the rest of the throttle range is the same as how the TM Warthog throttle works and probably most everything else short of using button emulation software. By default this is the behavior DCS expects for binding the idle/cutoff and will work with it seamlessly.
It works like every switch in the world: asserted/un-asserted; On/Off: Signal/No-Signal, just like a light switch, when switched off does nothing - it's off. The controller works exactly the same way; it sends no-signal when the switch is off. This is absolutely no issue, because DCS can look for a switch sending 'No-Signal'. On TM Warthog, with the indents in the aft position and the controller calibrated for this, when the left throttle lever is in the Stop position, the control asserts JOY_BTN30; when in the Idle position, it does nothing, and that is the correct behavior. What we need to do, is simply tell DCS to look for no-signal on JOY_BTN30, and this is how we do that. Go to the control setting of the F-16, group throttle quadrant, or whatever it is called, 'Throttle - OFF' or 'Throttle - STOP' or however it is called. Pull the throttle to the Stop position to register the signal the throttle sends; in my case JOY_BTN30. Now go to the 'Throttle - IDLE' setting, and do the exact same thing (you may have to cycle the throttle position to get it to register). This time however in the 'Currently in Use' box it will report 'Throttle - OFF', because the signal for this switch is already configured to the 'Throttle - OFF' bind. NOW click on 'Key / Button' to get up pulldown of all the buttons the controller has available. JOY_BTN30 will be selected, and directly below it we find JOY_BTN30_OFF (!!). Select this, and now, whenever the throttle lever is in the idle position and sending no-signal, DCS will register this and do what it should.
I don't understand why they deviate from the original design. There were probably dozens of general dynamics engineers to design that and thrustmasters come up with modifications that later end up having problems. Ergonomics is a very delicate subject. Stick with the original design and you won't make mistakes.
It's one of those compromises of design, sims have different needs from reality, at the very minimum we do need a zoom control somewhere within easy reach.
@@RedKiteRenderthe thrustmaster quality control is terrible. I hope you were paid well to say that. Metal parts to add weight, plastic everywhere that counts. Only product I can recommend is the TPR pedals.
I think I'm going to go with win Wing as well I have the A10 postmaster warthog in some of the l.a. Hat switch is excetera do not really work very well so
Hey Red, great video. I enjoy your hardware reviews. I know this is an older one but do you think T-Master was thinking the jammer switch is for setting the mode vs activation of the ECM? It just dawned on me that's what it could be but... it is labeled weird. Oh well, your awesome and this just gave me a reason to talk to you lol. Cheers man!
One question, have you tried to remove the multiposition knobs?. I was wondering how they are affixed... I mostly dealt with Allen screws with things like the UFC in the Navy but these don't look like they are held on with Allen screws. Are they held on by friction?. I'm going to get the stand-alone button box, and I'm going to want to make new faceplates for different-era aircraft, i.e. Props, early jets, and late jets. Getting those knobs on and off easily will make that job easier.
@@RedKiteRenderand you can make a custom binding anyway (if it's not already there in Quaggles DCS Input Injector mod) -- but yeah, for a newbie that might be a bit of a problem. It's a shame, really, that some modules don't come with these useful X else Y bindings by default. Thankfully, again, input injector works a treat.
yeah but would of been better if they just added the extra software button, instead now the user has to use work arounds. Personally I'd stick with WW when going for the F-16 throttle & stick, they also have the MFSSB too so why not stick with the one.
You can also do that in TARGET with a Null, never have to mess with it again... in any other aircraft profile, because TARGET no longer sees it as an input.
I enjoy the DCS F-16, and I'm interested in the standalone version. I haven't found the button layouts on my throttle bases very useful (X56 & CM3), so a standalone will let me build my own panel around it. The MSRP seems a bit steep ($330 US), but I suppose there's the possibility it'll be cheaper in stores, or there might be a decent sale at some point. I have the CM3, so I'm fine with holding out for a sale.
Great work on this review. Love the selection of buttons for the F-16, even if a few quirks. Just ordered a STECS standard though - far easier to use across a multitude of aircraft! Replacing/adding to Warthog throttle.
regarding your cutoff / idle button comment, most games allow for mapping a function when a button is pressed, and a different one when a button is released, or they already have a conditionnal input "function XX else YY" like in DCS, so it shouldn't be an issue
Well this one is starting to look like a better option than the WW to me... if all you fly is the Viper (like myself). But I just can't take this seriously at MSRP. They need to take a good $150 off of MSRP before I'll consider it.
Disappointed they went with the smaller throttle axis. I get they do it to make it for friendly for a desk, but I want something with a good quality build and 1:1 in size. Especially the axis. The winwing is close but I really don’t like the sloppy feel of the winwing switches.
TM should have asked us what we want on the base not just randomly placing buttons. Why on earth would we need HDG sel on the base? Would rather want ECM pod programs or even radio volume knobs.
I for one appreciate having the heading steering, but certainly different wants for different folks, can always rebind them to suit yourself a little better than the labels. Kind of surprised not to have a jet starter switch, given it's in the general area and the Warthog had it's one.
@@RedKiteRender XMIT switch would be nice too. It's different for everyone JFS isn't something I'd want on the base usually if you want to turn on your JFS you generally aren't moving so it doesn't need to happen quickly. Great review
Thanks! I'm always flicking the APU ON via my Warthog whilst I'm working my way round the right side panel on startup, plus it's handy to disable once you're done without looking down. There's certainly more useful things to have all said though Come to think of it, given you can buy it without the base panel, a 3d printed custom layout box could easily be added!
It looks nice, but i think I'm going to give this one a miss. I mean, I'm broke so it wasn't going to happen anyway, but still. At this point I fly more twin-engine birds than I do singles so a split throttle is definitely my go-to. Sigh... It is sexy as hell though...
@@RedKiteRender why say that? many of have a warthog throttle that after 10-12 years shows no failure in switches and works great. (except the common third-party upgrade to the sensor-slew switch we all did for 50$) While there is quite a lot of complaint about WinWings durability throughout the forums. We are not even getting into what the experience might be like once you do need repairs, TM having global distribution anywhere in the world, and WW being about as hard to do business with (not their fault of course with global politics, but you dont see them remedying it like Virpil with a stateside distributor) and people often complain about very long shipping fulfilment queues. Perhaps that is all why TM takes longer to debut a product than WW
Indeed, servicing should be easier, that's a huge plus, but new design. Getting WW to support your hardware can be expensive and slow due to international distribution and language barriers. So whilst confident, TM will be long lived, the proof is in the playing years down the line, and finding if it has any teething problems.
@@RedKiteRender That is true. I have heard a few horror stories about winwing QA and customer support. I'd definitely prefer to buy from TM as a company, but when it comes to the final product you have in front of you, I'd have to go with the winwing option for the time being.
man you said it! i think this will be nice for someone like me who can swap out warthog throttle for it when jumping into a twin-engine craft. I upgraded my stick's base to FSSB and this throttle will finally be the Cougar i always wished for back then (when we were doing Cubby's Hall Sensor mod, remember that?? lol)
Will be coming soon as i can, unfortunately the WW throttle broke down, I've recently solved that, but need to find the time. Have other high priority items at the moment.
@@RedKiteRender no problem. thanks for the reply. I was considering the WW but as you've said its broken down thats a bit concerning... hopefully you address in that video what went wrong etc.
For something that expensive it looks very cheap. I suppose if you only fly single engine jets it's a reasonable option, but I can see it being a hard sell.
I didn't get that impression unboxing it, certainly I'd of liked some more metal construction for the price, but the core parts are metal, and it feels fantastic for the most part.
Not sure i trust thrustmaster after seeing the inside of the warthog stick, a product which still hasnt been revised. It all would be better if they managed to sell it at mid range prices. I personally wouldn't ever buy a single axis throttle, but might not be an issue for some.
Too much for what it is. Years ago it may have gotten the same reception as the warthog, but now it's just an over priced mid quality device that's competing with plenty of other offerings. People used to gush over the warthog stick because it was the best at the time, but now it's nice enough grip sadly let down by cheap metal and a badly designed and fragile gimbal. I get the feeling that TM have created a product of similar quality but forgotten that the market is no longer barren and they can't actually justify the asking price.
I'm bummed now because I just bought the Warthog setup a couple of days ago. But I have to say making dedicated labeled buttons is the dumbest thing ever these days considering they will be reassigned by everyone to something else. Thats why the X56 throttle was my favorite, non labeled, all programmable 2 way switches, simple. Built like crap though, which is why I bought the Warthog, the X56 throttle just sheered off in my hand in under 2 years lol.
On the warthog it at least made sense, because it was a 1-1 copy of the cockpit.... With this is just a mush of different panels in a hard to reach space.
I’m get my first 1 this summer 2 questions is there a why to go in to air to air mode on the stick and do i need to bind all the buttons to keys or do they come automatically with there righ key
The TM Warthog/Viper TQS both come with controls pre setup. Selection of Air to air modes is done via the 'dogfight' switch on the throttle. but technically nothing stops you from binding it onto the joystick, if you have a button free. The ICP (the numberpad under the heads up display) has A-A, A-G and nav mode selection buttons.
@@RedKiteRender one more thing I see that they are selling the throttle and the joystick together but I do not see people reviewing both of them is that because of the joystick is just a normal one that they threw in?
I don't see what this has to offer over Winwing, being that this is SIX HUNDRED DOLLARS and winwing can provide a throttle with a longer throw, more buttons, AND including the joystick for $500.
Thanks. It was not clear if there was indeed a detent or not. Additionally (although it ultimately would be user preference), I believe the normal configuration for the Viper has pushing the microstick (extending your thumb) set to move the cursor up on the MFD. So here the ridges would be in the direction of left and right instead of up and down.@@RedKiteRender
@@kornforpie The software reports it as up down as mentioned in the video, which is what I'm going off of. Easy to configure how you prefer like you said though!
Given the fact that it's a throttle and not a joystick it may not be as much of an issue but a complete tear-down and analysis of the internal components should be done on these by a reviewer to show if they've improved their engineering. The Warthog joystick is junk compared to VPC and Winwing and they charge almost the same price. Still not worth over $500 imho compared to better company offerings.
I cant get past how much it looks like a toy. Let's be honest though, Thrustmaster is very very late to the party, between Virpil, Winwing, and VKB; and it costs the same as my Virpil throttle. Doubt it's the same quality.
They're off the mark with the pricing. This should be at LEAST a third cheaper based on the materials alone. Anyone spending this money should really be looking at Virpil hardware. Mental.
Have a feeling it's paying a bit of a premium for the brand/air force association, on a sale it's an easy recommendation, for sure a harder sale at the full amount.
@@RedKiteRender I suspect they're trading on the reputation the Warthog has, coupled with the upcoming FS2024 release they'll be catering to the people who know the name TM and will buy based on that alone. It's a shame for two reasons, basic economics says if they priced it more aggressively the they would shift considerably more units and secondly the price hurts am otherwise no doubt excellent product and puts it out the reach for many.
@@noisytwitPeople will buy this out of brand loyalty and a possibly a certain amount of ignorance of the WW unit. It will be commercially available from the usual retailers so that will help sales. There's a "non button base" version for about 150 less I think.
Winwing f-16 throttle is cheaper priced yet better quality with none of the silly issues Redkite mentioned with the Thrustmaster version....WinWing can swap different throttles as well. No way would I buy this overpriced garbage
Sorry TM, but you missed the mark with this one, by several years i'd say too. Even if this was the best throttle on the market i wouldn't buy it solely do to TM's history of basically abandoning flight sim hardware for about a decade(was it more?). Several brands have popped up and offering better gear since TM released their last flight sim product...
I see no reason why it can't be used with Ace Combat, it acts like any other usb controller device, so long as AC supports generic controllers, or ideally HOTAS support it'll work.
Find me a picture of a real F-16 throttle with the extra cursor keying. You wouldn't feel them under gloves. It's an addition by Thrustmaster I'm pretty certain.
Unless Thrustmaster reduces the price by 200 USD they are not going to sell as much as they expect due to the existance of awesome budget equivalents in the global market.
Nah big miss by TM on this. They had they market for 'high end' flight sim gear for over a decade & did nothing with it, they only recently replaced the horrible notorious slew hat on their A-10 throttle, their stick base is just plastic on the inside, I'd rather have plastic on the outside & save the metal parts for where it counts on the actual mechanical parts inside, I can't really comment on the TM A-10/F-16 grip or their F-18 grip other than to say I thought my VKB MCGU was heavy but apparently the TM grips are even heavier, for me personally I'd rather something like WW offers, metal but light weight as I use the VPforce RHINO base which is FFB. Also at only 1 min into the video & it seems like they've already missed some key things like the idle detent software buttons etc. Winwing is the go if you want F-16, f-18 or even f--15e now too, also the f-16 stick grip & the new f-15e/ex throttle grip should work nice for the a-10 too. If you want something enty level that will last & has the inputs to cover most aircraft I would consider the VKB Gladiator range & the new stecs throttle when it releases, newer higher end versions of the throttle are still to be announced but as entry level & quality goes I would def say VKB Gladiator & stecs, VKB Gunfighter range will be a good option to for a slighty higher price range & paired with the stecs it will cover Russian/Eastern style aircraft controls well, also Virpil is obviously the other option for the higher end consumer market & has both Eastern & Western style stick grips but only Eastern style throttle.
Does anyone knows how to activate the leds on the f16 logo and below the jettison buttons? is there a way to make it work just yet or still not? thank you ;) I am 80% satisfied so far with it... I hope the led will work soon to improve the experience ..
Thanks for the review, those switches are completely out of position, who knows why and when I saw that landing gear lever it completely disappointed me. In my opinion its overpriced for what it gives, you get the same from winwing for lot less money. And with STECS coming with standard version around 300€ this looks like I'm gonna skip, even tho I have Viper Stick from TM. Too bad.
Yeah that gear is a disappointment! i'd almost consider skipping the mission pack, just getting the throttle and 3d printing a custom box to go below it if you're a designer and own a 3d printer!
Hmm maybe modding the Warthog throttle box. Remove throttle handles and replace with smaller levers and use that as a box. Many have that throttle :)@@RedKiteRender
Too late, at least 10 years too late… there is now much better alternatives. That thing is still plastic. Maybe it’s a good sign, now I have a Ww F16 throttle with Realsimulator stick. Which is really great
1:10 If there is a continuous button press for going into cutoff, DCS natively supports the "off" state of that button as an input. If its a momentary press, Thrustmaster screwed the pooch... that is the worst possible implementation.
Learn how to use TARGET...... SCRIPT... or GUI... It's amazingly powerful. I don't understand why people spend so much money on a controller system and refuse to use the software to get the most out of it. Nuckin Futs... I'm looking to pick up just the Button box portion of this, to augment my TMWH and BlackHog setup.
Thrustmaster totally missed the boat on this. They should have released this YEARS ago. Most anybody who wanted this already bought one from Winwing and I highly doubt TM's will so far superior that it will convert many users. They really missed a golden opportunity here.
Certainly could have done with a sooner release! TM have left us waiting a long time for flight sim gear, tending to favour their range of Racing wheels/Gamepads.
Could have been sooner, but this will be in retail stores whereas winwing is difficult to get hold of.
Most definitely should have been sooner, like when the DCS F-16C module came out! I am having doubts about the mounting system, I have a Wheel Stand Pro setup and this throttle looks very incompatible! It looks like Velcro's in order, industrial strength!! Also, what about the gear handle lighting up??? I thought I saw it to were it would "light" up!
@@jimmyg370 I've no idea if the gear will light up, i assume so, but, well, driver and game integration is not complete at this point!
@@brianbushe5494 Good point. If I saw this on a shelf, I would probably buy it on impulse, even though I have absolutely no need or use for it.
Excellent review, didn't knew thrustmaster was building a new F-16 Throttle Quadrant. Great to see some more competition in this regard.
Always adore your reviews on these a ton, still personally right on the fence about getting a new HOTAS so these are very relevant to me and are a big part of what I will be using when I eventually and inevitably *do* decide to pull the trigger on one within the next couple years.
Also love the Kerbal cameo
I wouldnt buy an expensive Thrustmaster stick/throttle by principle. They got a pretty bad track record with quality.
Always love the ASMR clicky part ;D Interesting product for Viper pilots.
The Jammer switch just turns on the power to the Jammer. It’s in the cockpit next to the battery switch. I had a pilot mistake those two switches turning off the battery and blasting me with the EPU. Fun times….
The EPU that uses Hydrazine?! Fun times indeed!
Glad to see your back making videos ! Enjoyed the review thanks
Hopefully you can get your hands on a VKB STECS.
Keep up the great work
Awesome review !
In the next review, I would like to know the difference between the Viper TQS and the Winwing F-16 throttle in detail.
Thank you for your effort.
Cool video! This one is not for me personally but I really like that slap button for flares/chaff. That was a great way to utilize that space.
Accept the joystick has the chaff flares switch on it
@@CobraSnakebite yeah but its a lot cooler to absolutely demolish a button that was made for that purpose than move your thumb a tiny bit for countermeasures
Thanks for such a comprehensive review!
I find it so funny all of the TM haters in the comments are singing WW F-16 throttle praises, but the WW F-16 throttle grip has core controls that multiple reviews qualify as hard or impossible to use (one or both of the knobs). I think RedKite's own review of the WW F-16 throttle grip said it! In typical WinWing style, their option offers the most buttons, but definitely not the most well thought out placement for accessibility of those extras with reliable usage, and to my notice: frequently poor activation feedback. I have a CM3 I'm still happy using for literally every DCS module I fly, but if I were to go for an F-16 unique grip, it would be this one without question.
I'm not a WW hater either -- I own an F-16EX joystick grip and appreciate it. I don't see a product I'd rather use in any price bracket for what I use it for. Button wise, of course it has the most, though when I fly the F-15E/C and F/A-18C I use The TM grip.
Agree, I own Winwing and seriously looking into replacing it with this one because of the MAN RNG/Uncage button as well as issues with the plastic buttons on winwing.
Love to see an F-14 one!
3 minutes in and I am already absolutely in love with this thing, but 10 years in and my warthog throttle is still going strong and I just don't think I can justify it.
Excellent review
I love the fact that you can buy this without the button box below. I prefer throttle/stick only in VR, and cursor for other controls.
Awesome review, really enjoyed it! Got currently the WINWING Viper throttle (on which I had to fix the ANT ELEV knob) but the Thrustmaster seems to be a good contender. Watching your vids for quite some time as you have a great knowledge about this stuff. Cheers
Out of interest, what happened to your Ant. elev? Mine recently had the rubber o ring split, had to replace it, wondering if this is becoming a common problem.
Hi Redkite, do I understand correctly that you have both the Winwing and TM Viper throttle? If so, could you please do a Winwing vs TM throttle review video?
OMFG!!!!! The website says this is $530???? WTF? For that ThrustMaster??? What world are they dreaming in?? To save my dad's life I would get ripped off and pay $530 for that thing!!!!
love that Kerbal
Minus the Fisher-Price size buttons on the base it looks decent. I can see someone 3D printing a lever for the base dial for the zoom
he literally said buttons are Warthog grade quality level... so what are you talking about??
Also heard that MicroProse was developing a Falcon 5.0 sim. Wonder if they had that in mind when TM developed the Viper TQS.
Yep, can't wait to see how Falcon 5.0 turns out! Will be interesting to see the direction they take it in.
Falcon 5 won’t see the light of day for another 10 years if it even exists. Micropose has a line of announced games that have been stalled for years now that have precedence
Microprose are publishing a lot of games, very different. They're not making them all first party. No doubt it'll be a long time at any rate!
Appreciate the straight forward review! That’s a lot of visible flex in $500+ throttle 😬 hopefully they get a bit more reasonable on the price after the initial release hype wears off.
No one will get it other than thrustmaster fans as winwing is far better and cheaper
Yeah, I would never trust Thrustmaster in terms of quality, durability and repairability. They just sell too much stuff with inexcusable flaws and no willingness to improve. Like the twist axis on the T16, or the plastic-bearing of the TWCS. Massive flaws, just to save pennies, likely hoping that people just dont bother returning when it breaks.
I dont know how good WinWing is, but those companies generally have much more solid products and actually take feedback and improve. Or even the ability to repair them.
Won't be any hype. Its badly manufactored, plasticy and way overpriced. Winwing ones are superior in all facets.
I will be per-ordering on day 1! Can not wait!
Compared to the WinWing version this looks like a children's toy. The price is absolutely ridiculous.
I own the WW version and yes this one looks like a toy, just like the Virpil throttle that I sold a few years ago. WW is heavy, solid, all metal no nonsense.
well done review.
I"d be very interested to see that WW/TM comparison when you're ready. I'm still rocking a TQS with the Realsim USB adapter. I've been wanting to upgrade to WW for awhile but with this coming I'm torn. I really like WW swappable throttles idea, but I HATE their software. And for some reason I have an irrational dislike of how they did the manual ranging knob, turning it into that 5 way hat bugs me for reasons I cannot entirely explain
Winwing provides much more value for money, build quality, etc. Than this overpriced piece of plastic.
The idle cutoff position being an "on" button and off being the rest of the throttle range is the same as how the TM Warthog throttle works and probably most everything else short of using button emulation software. By default this is the behavior DCS expects for binding the idle/cutoff and will work with it seamlessly.
He knows all of this, but other games than DCS exist
It works like every switch in the world: asserted/un-asserted; On/Off: Signal/No-Signal, just like a light switch, when switched off does nothing - it's off. The controller works exactly the same way; it sends no-signal when the switch is off. This is absolutely no issue, because DCS can look for a switch sending 'No-Signal'.
On TM Warthog, with the indents in the aft position and the controller calibrated for this, when the left throttle lever is in the Stop position, the control asserts JOY_BTN30; when in the Idle position, it does nothing, and that is the correct behavior.
What we need to do, is simply tell DCS to look for no-signal on JOY_BTN30, and this is how we do that.
Go to the control setting of the F-16, group throttle quadrant, or whatever it is called, 'Throttle - OFF' or 'Throttle - STOP' or however it is called. Pull the throttle to the Stop position to register the signal the throttle sends; in my case JOY_BTN30.
Now go to the 'Throttle - IDLE' setting, and do the exact same thing (you may have to cycle the throttle position to get it to register). This time however in the 'Currently in Use' box it will report 'Throttle - OFF', because the signal for this switch is already configured to the 'Throttle - OFF' bind.
NOW click on 'Key / Button' to get up pulldown of all the buttons the controller has available. JOY_BTN30 will be selected, and directly below it we find JOY_BTN30_OFF (!!). Select this, and now, whenever the throttle lever is in the idle position and sending no-signal, DCS will register this and do what it should.
@@DerOrsoWow. I had no idea that _OFF variant existed. Thank you!
@@jdshkolnikI didn't know about it myself until a couple of months ago. It's a fairly recent update, I think.
May it serve you well. 🙂
I like your Kerbal figurine!
Not that it's the same form factor, but it makes my Virpil throttle seem like an absolute steal at only $10 more than the base model.
I don't understand why they deviate from the original design. There were probably dozens of general dynamics engineers to design that and thrustmasters come up with modifications that later end up having problems. Ergonomics is a very delicate subject. Stick with the original design and you won't make mistakes.
It's one of those compromises of design, sims have different needs from reality, at the very minimum we do need a zoom control somewhere within easy reach.
I'm most interested in the viability of detaching the grip handle and adaptor to mount it on a real throttle arm.
Yeah I think I'll stick with winwing. Its great there's options though. I like that the winwing is modular and very hackable.
WW are onto a really good thing with their swapping handles. TM's a bit better quality, bespoke, but limited.
Hackable?!
@@RedKiteRender No plastic in the WinWIng....and its heavier and won't be tipping over.
Orion 2 base is largely plastic, save for the moving parts. You can't buy the Orion 1 (shown in this video) any more.
@@RedKiteRenderthe thrustmaster quality control is terrible. I hope you were paid well to say that. Metal parts to add weight, plastic everywhere that counts. Only product I can recommend is the TPR pedals.
I saw the f-15 throttle video and i was wondering which one should people get
I think I'm going to go with win Wing as well I have the A10 postmaster warthog in some of the l.a. Hat switch is excetera do not really work very well so
Hey Red, great video. I enjoy your hardware reviews. I know this is an older one but do you think T-Master was thinking the jammer switch is for setting the mode vs activation of the ECM? It just dawned on me that's what it could be but... it is labeled weird. Oh well, your awesome and this just gave me a reason to talk to you lol. Cheers man!
I think the designers just didn't realise how the ECM works on the aircraft.
One question, have you tried to remove the multiposition knobs?. I was wondering how they are affixed... I mostly dealt with Allen screws with things like the UFC in the Navy but these don't look like they are held on with Allen screws. Are they held on by friction?. I'm going to get the stand-alone button box, and I'm going to want to make new faceplates for different-era aircraft, i.e. Props, early jets, and late jets. Getting those knobs on and off easily will make that job easier.
FYI, for DCS at least, engine idle can be bound to a Button_off
The F-16c module also comes with a Cut off else idle bind, so no trouble there either way.
@@RedKiteRenderand you can make a custom binding anyway (if it's not already there in Quaggles DCS Input Injector mod) -- but yeah, for a newbie that might be a bit of a problem. It's a shame, really, that some modules don't come with these useful X else Y bindings by default. Thankfully, again, input injector works a treat.
The addition of button_off was a great thing.
yeah but would of been better if they just added the extra software button, instead now the user has to use work arounds. Personally I'd stick with WW when going for the F-16 throttle & stick, they also have the MFSSB too so why not stick with the one.
You can also do that in TARGET with a Null, never have to mess with it again... in any other aircraft profile, because TARGET no longer sees it as an input.
I enjoy the DCS F-16, and I'm interested in the standalone version. I haven't found the button layouts on my throttle bases very useful (X56 & CM3), so a standalone will let me build my own panel around it.
The MSRP seems a bit steep ($330 US), but I suppose there's the possibility it'll be cheaper in stores, or there might be a decent sale at some point. I have the CM3, so I'm fine with holding out for a sale.
500 euros in europe :(
@@crevetta6128 the throttle only is 330€ which is "ok" imo. The button panel doesnt look that appealing to me
Apache TDAC is what we need.
Want it!
Great work on this review. Love the selection of buttons for the F-16, even if a few quirks.
Just ordered a STECS standard though - far easier to use across a multitude of aircraft! Replacing/adding to Warthog throttle.
How have you ordered the STECS? I can't seem to find them on the website
Just noticed you can order them from the US site. Seems odd given VKB are from the EU
try using a flight glove the swiches will feel better
Will you be reviewing the VKB TECS now that its finally out
Did the software get updated to allow cut off to idle in DCS to work?
regarding your cutoff / idle button comment, most games allow for mapping a function when a button is pressed, and a different one when a button is released, or they already have a conditionnal input "function XX else YY" like in DCS, so it shouldn't be an issue
Well this one is starting to look like a better option than the WW to me... if all you fly is the Viper (like myself). But I just can't take this seriously at MSRP. They need to take a good $150 off of MSRP before I'll consider it.
Nice review. I've sworn off TM products though, I've had terrible experiences with their support.
Disappointed they went with the smaller throttle axis. I get they do it to make it for friendly for a desk, but I want something with a good quality build and 1:1 in size. Especially the axis. The winwing
is close but I really don’t like the sloppy feel of the winwing switches.
You got any videos of the new VKB S/TECS in the works?
As of right now, no, nothing. I'd love to take a look at their hardware though!
I'm sure Thrustmaster made joysticks back in the day when I had my commodore 64.
Great great vidéo 😍😍😍😍😍
Thanks for the review. Have you tested it with BMS?
Works just fine in BMS too!
You know what would boost thrustmaster a lot a cheap fighter jet control panel.
Wooo hoooo kerbals!!
Haha :) Pitty KSP2 hasn't proved itself worth our time yet!
That rubbing noise could be easily omitted with some Teflon tape
TM should have asked us what we want on the base not just randomly placing buttons. Why on earth would we need HDG sel on the base? Would rather want ECM pod programs or even radio volume knobs.
I for one appreciate having the heading steering, but certainly different wants for different folks, can always rebind them to suit yourself a little better than the labels. Kind of surprised not to have a jet starter switch, given it's in the general area and the Warthog had it's one.
@@RedKiteRender XMIT switch would be nice too. It's different for everyone JFS isn't something I'd want on the base usually if you want to turn on your JFS you generally aren't moving so it doesn't need to happen quickly.
Great review
Thanks! I'm always flicking the APU ON via my Warthog whilst I'm working my way round the right side panel on startup, plus it's handy to disable once you're done without looking down. There's certainly more useful things to have all said though
Come to think of it, given you can buy it without the base panel, a 3d printed custom layout box could easily be added!
It looks nice, but i think I'm going to give this one a miss. I mean, I'm broke so it wasn't going to happen anyway, but still. At this point I fly more twin-engine birds than I do singles so a split throttle is definitely my go-to. Sigh... It is sexy as hell though...
How would hard mounting work? Sorry if i missed it
For the price, I really cant think of any reason to buy it over the Winwing alternative.
I get the impression it'll outlast the WW design in terms of reliability, but no one can truly answer that question for a good while yet.
@@RedKiteRender why say that? many of have a warthog throttle that after 10-12 years shows no failure in switches and works great. (except the common third-party upgrade to the sensor-slew switch we all did for 50$) While there is quite a lot of complaint about WinWings durability throughout the forums.
We are not even getting into what the experience might be like once you do need repairs, TM having global distribution anywhere in the world, and WW being about as hard to do business with (not their fault of course with global politics, but you dont see them remedying it like Virpil with a stateside distributor) and people often complain about very long shipping fulfilment queues.
Perhaps that is all why TM takes longer to debut a product than WW
Indeed, servicing should be easier, that's a huge plus, but new design. Getting WW to support your hardware can be expensive and slow due to international distribution and language barriers. So whilst confident, TM will be long lived, the proof is in the playing years down the line, and finding if it has any teething problems.
@@RedKiteRender That is true. I have heard a few horror stories about winwing QA and customer support. I'd definitely prefer to buy from TM as a company, but when it comes to the final product you have in front of you, I'd have to go with the winwing option for the time being.
@@RedKiteRenderI have WW and cringe with every button press fearing it will brake. Just doesn't feel solid
Missing one major feature.. where are the ejection handles..?? 😆
Does it fit on mostertech desk mount?
This looks awesome! Makes me nostalgic for my old Cougar and Falcon AF days 😅
man you said it! i think this will be nice for someone like me who can swap out warthog throttle for it when jumping into a twin-engine craft. I upgraded my stick's base to FSSB and this throttle will finally be the Cougar i always wished for back then (when we were doing Cubby's Hall Sensor mod, remember that?? lol)
please do a comparison vs winwing.... No one has done one and i could really benefit from picking between the two -thanks.
Will be coming soon as i can, unfortunately the WW throttle broke down, I've recently solved that, but need to find the time. Have other high priority items at the moment.
@@RedKiteRender no problem. thanks for the reply. I was considering the WW but as you've said its broken down thats a bit concerning... hopefully you address in that video what went wrong etc.
For something that expensive it looks very cheap. I suppose if you only fly single engine jets it's a reasonable option, but I can see it being a hard sell.
I didn't get that impression unboxing it, certainly I'd of liked some more metal construction for the price, but the core parts are metal, and it feels fantastic for the most part.
Not sure i trust thrustmaster after seeing the inside of the warthog stick, a product which still hasnt been revised. It all would be better if they managed to sell it at mid range prices. I personally wouldn't ever buy a single axis throttle, but might not be an issue for some.
Where do I insert my cassette tapes?
Too much for what it is. Years ago it may have gotten the same reception as the warthog, but now it's just an over priced mid quality device that's competing with plenty of other offerings.
People used to gush over the warthog stick because it was the best at the time, but now it's nice enough grip sadly let down by cheap metal and a badly designed and fragile gimbal. I get the feeling that TM have created a product of similar quality but forgotten that the market is no longer barren and they can't actually justify the asking price.
I'm bummed now because I just bought the Warthog setup a couple of days ago.
But I have to say making dedicated labeled buttons is the dumbest thing ever these days considering they will be reassigned by everyone to something else.
Thats why the X56 throttle was my favorite, non labeled, all programmable 2 way switches, simple. Built like crap though, which is why I bought the Warthog, the X56 throttle just sheered off in my hand in under 2 years lol.
On the warthog it at least made sense, because it was a 1-1 copy of the cockpit....
With this is just a mush of different panels in a hard to reach space.
I’m get my first 1 this summer 2 questions is there a why to go in to air to air mode on the stick and do i need to bind all the buttons to keys or do they come automatically with there righ key
The TM Warthog/Viper TQS both come with controls pre setup. Selection of Air to air modes is done via the 'dogfight' switch on the throttle. but technically nothing stops you from binding it onto the joystick, if you have a button free.
The ICP (the numberpad under the heads up display) has A-A, A-G and nav mode selection buttons.
@@RedKiteRender one more thing I see that they are selling the throttle and the joystick together but I do not see people reviewing both of them is that because of the joystick is just a normal one that they threw in?
@@itspineapplee The Joystick is the standard Warthog stick that has been out for decades.
Too late!! Team Winwing 🤣😎
I don't see what this has to offer over Winwing, being that this is SIX HUNDRED DOLLARS and winwing can provide a throttle with a longer throw, more buttons, AND including the joystick for $500.
Does the Antenna Elevation wheel have a detent denoting the centered position?
Yes, a soft centre detent, as mentioned when i talked about the cursor control, resting at neutral they all align nicely.
Thanks. It was not clear if there was indeed a detent or not.
Additionally (although it ultimately would be user preference), I believe the normal configuration for the Viper has pushing the microstick (extending your thumb) set to move the cursor up on the MFD. So here the ridges would be in the direction of left and right instead of up and down.@@RedKiteRender
@@kornforpie The software reports it as up down as mentioned in the video, which is what I'm going off of. Easy to configure how you prefer like you said though!
Where is grip base with pressure motion like true f16 ?
You mean a force sensing joystick? Well, Realsimulator make a premium one, or WW have their MFSSB kit for the orion 2.
Are the knobs on the throttle and base metal or plastic?
The knobs have plastic caps, that’s pretty standard.
@@RedKiteRender I don’t recall them being plastic on my original HOTAS Cougar…
No idea why anyone would buy this over the Winwing Orion 2 throttle with F16grip. The Winwing is built much better and is even cheaper!
Given the fact that it's a throttle and not a joystick it may not be as much of an issue but a complete tear-down and analysis of the internal components should be done on these by a reviewer to show if they've improved their engineering. The Warthog joystick is junk compared to VPC and Winwing and they charge almost the same price. Still not worth over $500 imho compared to better company offerings.
That's a terrible solution to add an extra button underneath. WinWing has two low profile buttons that do not interfere with your hand.
Of course it is officially US Air Force branded...
In terms of flight gear, everything from the warthog has kinda gone it shit besides the throttle and the base
can i pair this with HOTAS WARTHOG?
You can pair it with whatever other USB control device you like.
I cant get past how much it looks like a toy. Let's be honest though, Thrustmaster is very very late to the party, between Virpil, Winwing, and VKB; and it costs the same as my Virpil throttle. Doubt it's the same quality.
They're off the mark with the pricing. This should be at LEAST a third cheaper based on the materials alone. Anyone spending this money should really be looking at Virpil hardware. Mental.
Have a feeling it's paying a bit of a premium for the brand/air force association, on a sale it's an easy recommendation, for sure a harder sale at the full amount.
@@RedKiteRender I suspect they're trading on the reputation the Warthog has, coupled with the upcoming FS2024 release they'll be catering to the people who know the name TM and will buy based on that alone. It's a shame for two reasons, basic economics says if they priced it more aggressively the they would shift considerably more units and secondly the price hurts am otherwise no doubt excellent product and puts it out the reach for many.
@@noisytwitPeople will buy this out of brand loyalty and a possibly a certain amount of ignorance of the WW unit. It will be commercially available from the usual retailers so that will help sales. There's a "non button base" version for about 150 less I think.
Winwing f-16 throttle is cheaper priced yet better quality with none of the silly issues Redkite mentioned with the Thrustmaster version....WinWing can swap different throttles as well. No way would I buy this overpriced garbage
Sorry TM, but you missed the mark with this one, by several years i'd say too. Even if this was the best throttle on the market i wouldn't buy it solely do to TM's history of basically abandoning flight sim hardware for about a decade(was it more?). Several brands have popped up and offering better gear since TM released their last flight sim product...
Top👍👍
Does the base have mounting holes that line up with the holes in a Thrustmaster Warthog base ?
Awesome video 💪🏽💪🏽will this work on ACE COMBAT?🤔
I see no reason why it can't be used with Ace Combat, it acts like any other usb controller device, so long as AC supports generic controllers, or ideally HOTAS support it'll work.
0:37 what are you saying?
"Thrustmaster has thought about this" lmao no, it was General Dynamics.
Find me a picture of a real F-16 throttle with the extra cursor keying. You wouldn't feel them under gloves. It's an addition by Thrustmaster I'm pretty certain.
@@RedKiteRender damn, youre right. Nice addition, thrustmaster.
Unless Thrustmaster reduces the price by 200 USD they are not going to sell as much as they expect due to the existance of awesome budget equivalents in the global market.
Over 800€ for this and the stick... blows my mind.
So it took them this long to make this. When more people are interested in the F35 now considering winwing put out and the f16 is honestly just old
Huh?
Nah big miss by TM on this. They had they market for 'high end' flight sim gear for over a decade & did nothing with it, they only recently replaced the horrible notorious slew hat on their A-10 throttle, their stick base is just plastic on the inside, I'd rather have plastic on the outside & save the metal parts for where it counts on the actual mechanical parts inside, I can't really comment on the TM A-10/F-16 grip or their F-18 grip other than to say I thought my VKB MCGU was heavy but apparently the TM grips are even heavier, for me personally I'd rather something like WW offers, metal but light weight as I use the VPforce RHINO base which is FFB. Also at only 1 min into the video & it seems like they've already missed some key things like the idle detent software buttons etc. Winwing is the go if you want F-16, f-18 or even f--15e now too, also the f-16 stick grip & the new f-15e/ex throttle grip should work nice for the a-10 too. If you want something enty level that will last & has the inputs to cover most aircraft I would consider the VKB Gladiator range & the new stecs throttle when it releases, newer higher end versions of the throttle are still to be announced but as entry level & quality goes I would def say VKB Gladiator & stecs, VKB Gunfighter range will be a good option to for a slighty higher price range & paired with the stecs it will cover Russian/Eastern style aircraft controls well, also Virpil is obviously the other option for the higher end consumer market & has both Eastern & Western style stick grips but only Eastern style throttle.
Anyone wondering why they released it now and not years ago - think about what's happening right now in the world...
Does anyone knows how to activate the leds on the f16 logo and below the jettison buttons? is there a way to make it work just yet or still not? thank you ;) I am 80% satisfied so far with it... I hope the led will work soon to improve the experience ..
529.??? no thank you, i can save money with the O2EX and get other things with the savings
Thanks for the review, those switches are completely out of position, who knows why and when I saw that landing gear lever it completely disappointed me. In my opinion its overpriced for what it gives, you get the same from winwing for lot less money. And with STECS coming with standard version around 300€ this looks like I'm gonna skip, even tho I have Viper Stick from TM. Too bad.
Yeah that gear is a disappointment! i'd almost consider skipping the mission pack, just getting the throttle and 3d printing a custom box to go below it if you're a designer and own a 3d printer!
Hmm maybe modding the Warthog throttle box. Remove throttle handles and replace with smaller levers and use that as a box. Many have that throttle :)@@RedKiteRender
For the price I would rather have a WinWing.
Overpriced, late to the market, waste.
Their live stream reveal was absolute gold. Thousands of people in chat tearing them a new one.
Too late, at least 10 years too late… there is now much better alternatives. That thing is still plastic. Maybe it’s a good sign, now I have a Ww F16 throttle with Realsimulator stick. Which is really great
I might be spoiled by winwing.... but that looks like a toy
i think it would be better to just get the throttle and leave the base....
1:10 If there is a continuous button press for going into cutoff, DCS natively supports the "off" state of that button as an input. If its a momentary press, Thrustmaster screwed the pooch... that is the worst possible implementation.
Continuous button. It wouldn't be terribly hard for TM to add another virtual button for leaving.
Learn how to use TARGET...... SCRIPT... or GUI... It's amazingly powerful. I don't understand why people spend so much money on a controller system and refuse to use the software to get the most out of it. Nuckin Futs... I'm looking to pick up just the Button box portion of this, to augment my TMWH and BlackHog setup.