Love your video's! very easy to listen to and understand. I do think i need to get you DD-1+ for Christmas. It's a lot more to that than i think you realize :). FYI: If you want to know how much power your amp is actually presenting to a sub, we have the AMM-1. Not trying to push my stuff on your channel my brother, sorry. I'm just sayin' we have something for everything. Also, i would like to point out that there is a lot more to setting gains than just watching for a light or watching for the wave form to start clipping. Whether it is a DD-1 or an O-scope, the proper procedure when using them should be talked about (because there is important things like gain overlap to consider). I almost ALWAYS tell people to buy and learn how to properly use the scope first and then there is no way they won't like the "upgrade" the (i won't say it because i ain't trying to spam your page with my product haha!) Thanks for the mentions! Watch for an email!
Hey man, been watching your stuff for years. I've got a few videos coming up in the next few weeks that you might be interested in. 😉 Edit: I'm definitely not trying to discount the importance of the proper procedure. But the real value of the DD1 is that you know for sure what you're looking at. When the light is on you're distorted. End of story.
@@DIYAudioGuy well i think i want to send you a Plus (DD-1+) that is...because it is a lot more than just a light. The standard issue DD-1 is a step up from a scope for sure. But the plus does so MUCH more. email sent. Thanks again!
Your a legend Steve!!! One of your videos came up when I was watching youtube probably around 5 to 6 years ago. Between you and my father, yall got me hooked into car audio and I will never turn back.
Oooo man , wish i could buy all your gear , curently i have the combo (dd1 +cc1) , but very hard to find them in europe/romania , and not reallly cheap for us either 😅. Next i wanna have the amm1 ❤️
I can't remember the last time I bought an amp that didn't have a clip indicator on it. Also up sizing the amp a little from the rms actually needed is a good way to stay away from clipping. As far as the "75% rule", you use the oscilloscope to see where the head unit clips.
So many people had questions that I felt I needed to. I think it's important to point out that there are better ways to do it and that sometimes these better tools are worth the money.
Stopped by local shop here just to find out where my deck maxes out, The guys told me they were backed up for a month and it'd be like $100 to do it. crazy. So now I've got the O scope
On the setup in my car I tried 3 different ways. I used JL Audio's gain procedure with a meter, I used a SMD DD-1, and I used an Oscope. The differences were negligible. Same amps, same everything. I just wanted to see what worked better, and I was surprised how close they all were.
Exactly! If you avoid brands that inflate their power numbers and stay away from bottom of the barrel distorted junk all three methods are going to get you very close to each other. You got to remember, back in the day, shops would set by ear or use a multimeter. Nobody had a DD1 in 1996, and only the high-end shops would have RTA's and oscilloscopes. Even then they would not use those tools on every install. They would only dig those out if they were up charging a customer on a sound quality installation.
The 75% rule is good if you dont know the output voltage for the head unit, but if you know the preout voltage from the datasheet, you can measure that on the RCA cables in AC on the center pin and the shield. Turn it down just a smidge when its at the target voltage. Then you hook up the head unit to the amplifier, and match the input voltage with the output voltage of the head unit. You can do this by reading the datasheet from the amp manufacturer, and it should have a place it says Input voltage, usually something like 0-4/5v. Then adjust the gain knob for gain, until its in the area of the output voltage for the preout. The simplest way for this is to divide the gain into percentage, so for 5 its easy, each volt is a 20% increment. Again, adjust it down just a smidge to be safe. This allows the amp to run at full juice at max volume without clipping. If you want to match the RMS of the speaker, to the output of the amplifier, complete step 1 to find the unclipped voltage of the head unit, then use the math method of sqrt(Watt*Ohm) of the speaker, to get a rough estimate of the voltage you need to set. Play a 40hz/1k test tone, and set the voltage to around that, and then turn it back just a smidge. After this you should be golden, no distortion, no speaker blown and happy days! If you have no multi-meter, reset the amp gain, turn up the head unit to max, listen for distortion and turn it down until its gone. Then turn up the amp gain to max excursion for the speaker, or until it distorts, then bring it back down until it doesn't and you're golden (Less accurate method though, even compared to multi-meter)
So if you have 5v preouts on headunit, can you help me with how to set my amp gain or how to test the rca cable. Would I turn my amp gain to 5v? Also I have 500watts x 4ohms= 2000. The square root of 2000 is 44.12v, I should get that when testing the speaker terminals in ac mode. Seems high & especially when he said the same thing in the video. That was about a whole different amp & etc. Appreciate the help
@@Spidamann10 Remember that the watts is not linear, and at high volume you need a lot of voltage for not a lot of extra volume. You should turn the headunit volume at 40hz until you get 5v between the ground and center pin. Then hook up the RCA to the amplifier, with the amp gain turned all the way down. Now turn the AMP gain, still with the headunit set to its max clean voltage, and slowly turn up the AMP gain until you measure roughly 45v AC on the outputs. You can do this with the speakers plugged in, should be fine. If the amp is MORE powerful than the speakers, you will hear them reach over excursion, and dial it down 1.5-2 hours on the clock to leave headroom. If the amp is LESS powerful than the speaker, it will clip before you reach 45v, and in this case you should watch for the clip light and turn it down 2 hours, or when you hear it start to affect the sound then turn it down 2 hours.
I actually bought this oscilloscope multimeter of your recommendation last week. Been using it on multiple systems since, works great! I love how I can SEE when it starts to distort, track the voltage, and use my ears to tune amps. Like I might have a good ear and the target voltage might look fine, but the graph shows otherwise, and now I feel more confident off properly tuning it every time
I think the nicer portable Oscilloscopes on the market are better than the DD-1. I recently upgraded to the Hantek portable Oscilloscope. It has a built in signal generator. The screen is really nice too. I'm now able to input a signal in the amp and watch how the crossover performs at different frequencies. With a scope you can get into repairing amps and other electronics if you want. Way more versatility with a scope.
I use a below $50 oszilloscope and it works fine. A more expensive one would hopefully have some more auto-adjustment to see automatically a wave or two of the actual voltage and frequency, but it works manually as well.
I did my do diligence when coming back to car audio since my daughter is now into her teenage years. So, I decided to check out as many amp dyno videos as I could to see what companies are valid as well as efficient. Currently use a Maxspeedingrods Android Head unit, Orion XTR750.4 to run my front and rear 6.5"/1" components, and CT-SOUNDS 1000.1D into a dvc 2 ohm ct sounds tropo 10 in a sealed box with 3/4" mdf and proper internal space required by sub wired down to 1ohm for max wattage. All of course powered with a rear Yellowtop Optima battery and battery isolator. It sounds fantastic! Be upgrading to two 12s eventually once I upgrade my components as I'm a SQL guy. 😉
Thank you. Just bought an Abestop Oscilloscope. New to checking anything electrical. Normally read manuals buy what seems right, connect, power on and go.
I appreciate you making this update vid, but I’ve been using your metod every since I watched that video and I haven’t had any problems! Although I have noticed that with amps that have a clip light, after setting gains with multi-meter it will clip and I’ll have to turn it down just a little bit. Anyways, thank you, I’ll look into an O-Scope! 💪🏽
Been doing it for 25 years. Works good. And damn sure works better than any of the over priced so called amp tuning devices Like SMD AND OTHER NAME BRANDS.
Helpful video very easy to follow. I went and set my gains and forgot to disconnect my speakers bigo mistake. Smelled an electricity smell and when I went to play something, my front left speaker was faint and staticky no bass poor sound, It also set the amps protection off, luckily have and installed an replacement 😅. Apart from that Im doing 90% on head unit no issues, kenwood head unit seems happy and with a bonus of lower set gain on amp cleaner sound :).
Oh man, sorry that happened. I might take a screenshot of this and share it. Hopefully we can prevent others from making the same mistake. If I do share it I'll blur out your name.
Yeah I went to 19v by accident too far was super touchy the speaker can only handle 14v rms at 3 ohm 65 watts, so ye. Also was using 1khz 0db tone. Gotta unplug and trust the numbers. 👍
Thank u so much my taramp kept clipping and shutting off. I used ur math and my multimeter and it sounds great thank u again. Using a multimeter is the easiest way for a average day to day guy with out spending extra money
Need your help please. I have a JBL Stadium 4 amp, 4channel, 4ohm, so 100x4= 400, sq root is 20v. Now when i set my multimeter to AC voltage and stick the probes into the positve and neg speaker terminal on one channel, and play a 1000hz test track at 75% volume, and turn up gain i only get like 2.8 v, nowhere near 20v, whats wrong ?
I have the LM2001 and love it. I tuned my taramp 8k with it, because I didn't really trust the clip LED on the amp. Well, with the o-scope, I found out that the clip LED is pretty much spot on. I now know I can trust it, but, I'll still use the o-scope as a little bit more of a safety measure.
I just use my handy DIY Distortion Detector to set my amplifier gains. All I used was a small 3" Visaton - FRS 7, 2 1/2" 8-Ohm Speaker, an Audyn Cap - Plus Series 2-Layer Metallized Polypropylene Foil Capacitor, small 5-way binding post, & a project box to put it in. I plug in my Multimeter Probe Wires into the 5-Way Binding Post & connect the probes into my speaker terminals & use a -5dB 40Hz Test Tone Track & get a distorted sound threw the speaker only when distortion/clipping is present. It is extremely accurate & only cost about $20.00 to make.
Another cheap option is to use small speaker with non polar capacitor(2.2uf-3.3uf will do) attached to one of the pin. Set gain to minimum then increase until distortion heard(easily notice as it was quite loud) on the small speaker. Edit: then decrese gain until no distortion heard.
4:39 for me that would actually be more of a reason to use a multimeter instead of o scope. For example, i take 2 american bass xmaxx 6krms total and i hook them up to a salt 6k on good electrical, i might cook them not know that i'm sending 9,500rms (after rise) watts to them. However if i use the multimeter and set it to a target voltage, i won't be over powering them.
I bought one the same model but it was already put together but I cannot figure out how to work this thing there's no instructions or anything with it just one little manual that shows how to build it any idea if there's any information on how to run this thing
I installed for over 20 years and into my later years of setting amps I used inspectors lacquer that would leave evidence if "somebody that knew better" put a pipe wrench on their gains. Far too many times we'd have launched subs and smoked amps and nobody knew nuthin'! If you've never used it - it's a great way to tell if the adjustments have been tampered with.
It doesn't really matter if your amp does below, above or right at the rated numbers. The impedance of the driver changes with frequency so you need to set it up for your specific setup and there's nothing on the gain knob that is going to indicate that to you. Also the input level determines how much gain you need to hit a certain power level. Portable O-Scope is a must have.
So this is odd, Did my Alpine HD149BT. I still had a channel plugged into the dsp but turned down. With a 1khz 0db You could clearly HEAR the distortion start exactly from 27 to 28 on the volume But the wave looks great all the way to 35 (max) scale adjusted to fill the screen and everything. When I ran it through the DSP too (dsp not even turned up high) you clearly see the wave form develop a weird "dent" at the 27-28 mark. Validating what I heard. really weird.
Would be interesting to see a video, or your opinions on the DD-1 Manual and using the 0, -5 and -10 tracks. I set everything to 0db and the system just has no power compared to when I just tuned it by ear (the "yup, thats loud enough" method). Also, through research (testing oscope on my headphone amp) finding out Spotify drops -14db if using "normalize volume" and tons of songs out there are rarely at 0db.. Gonna try the -5db track for highs and -10db on my bass tonight. It sounds to me like this is a CRITICAL element to consider regardless of using voltmeter, O-scope, DD-1 etc. Enjoying the audio journey with you. My next rabbit hole is crossovers, as the back of the manual indicates I maybe should be using closer to 100hz instead of the golden 80hz number. Along with further REW tuning after making any changes.
sound clips didn't give me a jumpscare on this video. i believe one day we can add limiters on old youtube videos. i have an old hamburger phone video that has audio that makes me cringe really bad whenever i watch it. thanks DIY Audio Guy. your videos are most effective in helping me learn about audio amplifiers.
The screen resolution on a handheld is not accurate enough to see distortion. The DD-1 and DD-1+ do not measure to clipping, they measure to 1% THD so the systems set with these are very clean. In addition, the DD1+ can be used to gain match as it has a DMM built in. They are expensive for sure but as you pointed out, you can't rely on what MFG power ratings are. My personal system is JL Audio XD v2 series amps. These are rated for 75w @4 ohms and 300w @2 ohms (sub) but in actuality, they put out 100w @4 ohms and 450 @2 ohms. The extra power, particularly on the sub, took the system to the next level. On the flip side, I had customers with cheap BOSS amps come in for diagnostics and they are nowhere near rated power. The good news is, it usually results in an AMP sale and installation labor :D. If you are going to get a DD-1 then get the DD-1+ for the built in DMM function.
I just got the aukuyee on black friday sale for 38 bucks. Theres several videos about it. Next level car audio compares it to a bench top o scope and a clip light on his amp.
Can you find the clipping point on your head unit by measuring the voltage of your rca pre-outs? Like if you have 4 volt pre out can you just increase volume until you just exceed that voltage and fail back to 4 volts or slightly less?
I need help I have a Sony xplod it says 1000 Watts and I have two 12-in sundown subwoofers and I need them to correspond together so they work properly and not burn something up or blow something up how would I do that and this is a my first go-around
It seems like you could use the same multimeter method and formula to first find your clip volume on the head unit? …if 75 or 85% is kind of an arbitrary number… or am I reading too far into this? Would this be beneficial prior to setting amp gains in order to get a more accurate voltage reading and gain adjustment on the amp?
A cheap multimeter is a tool only when one knows how to use it. Under or over powered ratings, RMS, formulas, and pen/pencil are useful additional tools. I set my system that way. Something else useful is testing many individual frequencies, see what voltage is good that would not distort, writing it down then setting the gain that way. I did that with RCA Voltage set at it's highest and Bass boost up to 9db at 62Hz, 100Hz, and 180Hz; and the volume at 32. I know I don't distort at all. I don't really use the Bass boost to 9db but I know I can without distortion if I wanted to.
My question is you say take the watts RMS x ohms and then take the square root would you not be more accurate to read the ohms of each speaker and use that instead of 16,8,4,2,1 ohms?
If you were connected to a resistor instead of a speaker you would be correct. But speakers are AC devices, and with an AC device, the impedance varies with frequency. The math we're doing here is an approximation. The goal is to get close without going over.
When you set gains with a o-scope you need to put it in FFT mode so that you can see the harmonics, if you try and lool at the sine wave to set the gain you will surely be leaving some power on the table.
Weird.. When I connect my subs, I turn up into a clean wave.. Then when I disconnect, it's clipped. 67 or so volts clean open, and I can get 72 clean under load
Hey man, please correct me if I'm wrong. If you took a multimeter and set it to dc millivolts and put the leads on the amplifier output and testing with a sine wave. I would think that the reading would be zero until it started clipping and then would read dc volts as soon as it started clipping?🤔
I like the Multi-Meter for under voltage. I have 2 Sundown SA 10's rated at 750w a piece, running parallel to get 1 ohm at 1,500w. I have a 2,500 RMS Orion XTR, so I have to adjust the gain to about 38 volts so I don't over power the SA's.
I just installed a JL rd1000/1 and did everything “to a T” with the 75% volume, and when I increased the gain, the clipping light would not come on, tried for hours, used a multimeter as well. This morning I just hooked up the subs, started low and somehow the clipping light worked this time with the subs connected, no idea what the deal was. Good info here though. Thanks.
@@DIYAudioGuy oscilloscope was reading 8 volts above the volt meter so I just used the volt meter to set the gain while using the oscope for wave distortion. Definitely helped.
I usually set my bass amp gain with the bass boost all the way up and bass knob all the way up with a tweeter. I hook a tweeter with a capacitor to my subwoofer channel. I play 0db 40hz test tone at volume 35 of 40 on my Pioneer headunit. Turn the gain up to it makes a buzz. then turn it down until the buzz goes away. What's your thoughts on this method? I listen to mainly all bass boosted demo songs from TH-cam music app. so that's why I use the 0db 40hz test tone.
I have a 500 watt amp, and 2 woofers wired to 4ohms. The spec sheet says "Power handling RMS 200 watts" , and "Power handling max 400watts". What should the gain be on these?
Easiest method is buy a decent amplifier with a clip indicator! Problem solved. But I did use the equation on a kicker CXA 1800 amp in a friends vehicle worked great and I of course rounded down to be safe! Thanks
If the amplifier has an unregulated power supply you will get more power with 16 volts of input versus the 12 to 14 that most vehicles operate with. I'm not really sure how the rail caps enter into the calculation. Those are internal parts and that is outside of my area of expertise. At the level of complexity you seem to be dealing with you should go with the more complicated and expensive tools.
for a long time i usually just tuned by ear/dmm..its pretty easy on smaller speakers to hear distortion compared to a large woofer. A DMM like you said is helpful say you have a amp rated at 760rmsx1chan (mono) and a sub rated for 600wRMS in my case a RF P3 '12..ahhh yes the DD1!..a friend had one and sold it to me for $50 bucks..he had laying around he was selling all his car audio stuff in this case a DMM is helpful once you find amps THD/distortion that DD1 does. Probe amp output and lower gain to match ball park voltage to the sub. (35.4v * 35.4v)=1,253.16/2ohm = about 620w RMS with a 40hz tone...TLDR this NVS amp i have on my car was putting out about 42volts which is more than rated on rms box
Good video. I have three things I want to mention: 1. I disagree with you on manufactures providing the exact rms power ratings. Not every same amp will put out the same exact wattage as one another. One NVX VAD800.4, for example, might put out 800rms x 4 at it rated ohm’s, while another NVX VAD800.4 might put out 900rms watts at the same rated ohm. Just like vehicles, the manufacturer puts out its hp and torque, knowing not all manufactured same year Camaro SS’s, for example, are going to put out the exact same hp and tq. Same thing applies to amps. 2. I disagree with matching an amp rms power to a subs rms power, at their given ohm. I don’t know how many amps I’ve had in my lifetime. It’s a lot. But this I do know, that every single amp I’ve matched to my sub on rms power and ohm’s, has had to be replaced at one point in time. Whether that point of time was one month, or two years, they had to be replaced due to the amp overheating. Why were these amps overheating? Because they were being pushed to their limits too often! And when it’s giving its max energy for long periods of time, just like a gym rat, if he does his max all the time, they will burn out FAST! And an amp does just that. Now, not everyone listens to their music blasted high for long periods of time. So having that matched rms for its ohm’s might work out just fine. But for those of us who do have our music blasting loud frequently, I have found it best to find an amp that puts out more rms power than the subs rms, at their given ohm. For example, I have a Sundown SA-10 D4 Classic, wired to a 2ohm load, and it’s rated at 750W rms (even though everyone knows this sub can easily handle 1200-1400W rms). The amp I push it with is a NVX VAD17001, which pushes 1350W rms @2ohm (it has been test benched to do over 1600W rms @2ohm stable). This amp slaps my Sundown sun hard. I’m only pushing about 1000W rms to my Sundown sun too, and the amp never get hot. Why? Because it’s not pushing even close to what it can. So using a higher rms rated amp isn’t bad imo. But you do have to be careful on not overpowering your sub, and know that your sub can handle the power. 3. I use a NVX VAD800.4 for my F&R Audison Voce components, and have been doing so for 4 years now. I don’t know how many db’s my car reads, but it gets LOUD to say the least. This NVX amp is amazing, and is why I have been sold on NVX amps in general. It also has been tested to push far more than it’s 800rms as advertised, which shows how good the quality of this amp is, especially for the price. I’m an NVX amp and Sundown sub enthusiast for life now. Both are amazing brands! Highly recommend them!
I notice with DD1 and oscilloscope, you get one setting for your gain. With multimeter, 2 ohm voltage differs from 4 ohm voltage with most amplifiers. So would you send a distorted signal if you don't make the adjustment?
DMM method works. If you are running outside of freq resp or right on the edge then there is a problem. I only have amps the Dereck has ran on the AD-1 so I have ample headroom. Just make sure that your sub(s) are disconnected. Good video DIY
I have a kicker cxa800.1 pushing 2 kicker l7t 10 inch subwoofers in a sealed box. Need help tuning the cover frequency and the gain. Also, should I stay with sealed box or go ported?
I prefer ported, you'll get more output and more low-end extension. I've got a couple of videos on setting crossovers. Here is one of them. th-cam.com/video/bNauOkzdTRM/w-d-xo.html
A few years ago I got a DD1, mostly cause oscilloscopes are silly expensive where I am. A decent oscilloscope was more than the DD1 even factoring in the exchange. I tested all the head units I had (Pioneer, JVC, Kenwood, Alpine) and only the Kenwood did not clip at full volume with a 40hz track. The Pioneers did, but their max was 62 (from memory) and it didn't clip at 60/62. I bought the DD1 and justified it as it takes out the guesswork and I can crank it all the way up and not blow anything up! I also set gain overlaps, 2.5db for the full range amps, and 7.5db for the subwoofer/monoblock amps.
@@DIYAudioGuy Maybe if you could get a DD-1 you could do a video about gain overlaps: what they are, how they are used, why they are used and what is typically used to set amps, even if just a starting point. I know others set higher overlaps than I do, I thought I'd err on the safe side. 🤔😁
I’m a diy guy and just want to set the LOC & 2 amps…. I got a meter but don’t want to buy a oscilloscope for a 1 time use…… What avenue would you take?
@DiyAudioGuy I'm a subscriber on your channel I really enjoy your content thank you for all the information,tips and reviews. I'm having trouble adjusting my sound system. I kept the stock factory radio, tapped into the rear subwoofer to get the signal for the Loc NVX XLCA2, Leige Audio LG-500.1D hooked up to a 10 Kicker solobarick L5 wired at 2-ohm. My question is did you have to adjust the loc like the amplifier !😂
Yes, that loc has a gain control. If you check the manual it will tell you what voltage it can output. You can use remote to read the voltage coming out of the RCA's.
I use a piezo buzzer. They won't work for mids or highs though but for that I made a distortion detector that cost $20 to make. It does the same thing as the clipping light on some bass knobs.
So what if your amp does rated power but your sub is rated less then the amp? Example amp rated 800 rms , speaker rated 500rms? If you get o scope to tune till clipping you would over power your sub.
Thanks for all the Videos. I do the same thing and have for years. Was pretty shocked well not really but was surprised to see the AMP fuse ratting on every Taramps amp at half rated power. They do have full fuse rating but only if you play a set tone LMAO!!!
I cant understand the amd dd1 plus for the life of me please help by explaining it in atupid terms i gues on how to realy tune 3 diffrent amps on a cross over
So I recently installed a cheap head unit from Amazon which I kept the gain on my audio pipe apmn 1500 where I had it on my previous pioneer head unit and apparently clipped my sub to death and had no idea being it only has a .7 volt sub rca output. I ordered a new American Bass Elite 12 and a kicker line output converter/line driver to pull signal for my sub from the original speaker level connections since my door speakers are ran off a 4 channel and those are unused. Would I 75% since I assume the cheap head unit obviously clips at full volume then test the voltage after the line driver then match with voltage from the amp? The sub will be wired down to 2 ohm and the amp does 1000w rms at 2ohms the rms on the sub is 1200w
Since you are running a head unit, a line driver, and an amp I would recommend that you get a cheap O-scope. The 75% rule will mostly work, but the extra links in the signal chain have bumped you up to the point where that rule is less effective.
Just watched your video on setting gain. I have a question-with a 4 channel amp producing 45 watts(rms) per channel is the amp gain set at square root of 180 (45 × 4 ohm) per channel or square root of 360 for the L&R front and L&R rear. Thanks
After adding DSP I've set up my head unit to use 40/40 volume. I had to stop using the RCA out because of unfixable hum and used the high level inputs on the DSP-408 and 40/40 on the head unit requires setting the volume in the head unit to -16dB to prevent overloading the DSP's high level inputs. So I feel like after doing that any chance of distortion from using max volume on the head unit is eliminated. I have zero noise after doing this and it's nice knowing I can max it out instead of trying to stay at 34/40 like I used to. I feel I do everything car audio related differently than anyone else lol.
@@DIYAudioGuy Indeed! I'm going to try out some crossovers I built the other day. I ordered new speakers and I have everything but the woofers. Bought a $7 soldering iron kit and assembled the crossover for them. The woofers are Back-ordered so it'll be 2 weeks before I can install but I'm so excited to try it out in the car. Then I can say my system is really custom. Crossover and everything. (I used Xsim to plan the crossover. In car response will be different but hopefully DSP EQ-able) I tested the crossover with some Polk T15s and posted it as a video on my channel. Next time I might get a bread board or something and make it smaller but it was very fun to learn how to solder and all that. Soldering is easy as long as you're patient.
You can use a tweeter with a capacitor to set your amps with as well if you don't have the money to buy a SMD DD-1 or a oscilloskop, might not be so fancy but it works. (I have both the DD-1+ and a oscilloskop)
Used volt meter setup n found I can pretty much crank mine all the way up because I'm only running a 1500d amp on a on a 1200 rms sub set my gain a little over half n it sounds good no need for more
I love the honesty. But you should go more in depth of how much you can do with the o scope, such as resistance, dc volt, ac volts, the capacity, hz that your playing, how to measure the volts on a rca or when it clipping, that o scope is a #1 tool for a diy guy I be glad to help you out if needed
Okay so i have 6 ds18 speakers 6 tweeters 1 horn all on separate amp tweeters are on 1800 speakers are 1k rms each and runing on 8k 1ohm and sub is stealth box runing on 1200 watt i am so confused how to set the gain up on this with the cross over from clarion please please make a video showing how to tune this with the smd tool becuase no one has a cd changer anymore and smd comes with a cd i dont understand each track meaning and stuff please help
Me and my cousin are trying to start a small audio shop he bought both of the SMD tools.. I bought the lumly .... After using all three tools a handful of times. He wishes he would have bought a lumly instead because it does what both of those high price tools do in one device for less than half the cost of one
That's one reason why I like the handheld scope, It does everything that a digital multimeter does. If you're running a shop definitely go with the SMD devices just for the speed and the convenience. The DD-1 Plus displays voltage.
Great explanation ( I still use my liumy2001, and it's falling apart, but gets the job done with proper test tones. Real quick, the d4s, jp8 suggests a 120amp fuse
@@DIYAudioGuy after the holidays I'll probably order the newer liumy, but they appear low on stock( maybe cargo ship issue? Idk). In the future, I'm also considering the dd1+. I like the idea of 'gain overlap' setting 👍🏼
I think you did a bang on job explaining the differences. I know you like that hand held all in one, but personally I don't think the screen has enough resolution. The $40 hand help oscilloscope is so much nicer to look at and use imo.
Yes the $40 or $50 one is a lot easier to see , it has alot cleaner resolution than the Luimy ..But there again the luimy does a lot more stuff.. Steve Meade is right when it comes to the DD1+ and understanding overlap but it is very good to understand the oscilloscope first and learn it well before stepping up to the dd1+
A VOM works perfectly well as long as you back down about 1.0 to 1.5% on your amp. Ive found that using the pre-out voltage and the AMP specs works well but it ALWAYS (for me anyway) needs to be backed down a percent or so or it still clips.
Ok, but another video you made taught me precisely to use a multimeter..? Lol! Which I thought is genius because I can set the exact wattage to specific speakers. Not just my subs, but my door speakers as well.
Toward the end of the video I'll give you some extra tips for using a multimeter. I made this video because I wanted to make a video talking about some of the drawbacks of the multimeter method. The biggest drawback is that people can't seem to do math. If you can do the math then the multimeter will work just fine.
@@DIYAudioGuy Ok, I can absolutely see that. Whatever tool makes it easiest. But to me, your video showing the multimeter was my favorite. Wish I had know this going back to my 20’s. I was that guy back then that thought the gain was basically a volume knob. Haha!
That JP8 amps says 120a fuse right in the description on their web page... and I'm pretty sure it's in the manual as well... just got the JP23 and it list all that info and I doubt that he would have left out that information as it's needed to hook the amp up...
Hey man, keep going!!! I love presentation and video dimensration , if that's spelled right.. as a new guy I need help too . I watched the enclosure then freaking bought crap now I'm putting it 😤 it back rt .so with out going any further can show you what I have 3 15s Memphis mono Amp for 1 kicker driver
I just got an apocalypse 2900.1D. It does 1100 watts at 4 ohms, but I wanna punch her down to 700 at 4 ohms for my ddx 12. I'm not worried about clipping, but I just don't want to overpower my sub. Would I still be fine with using my multimeter for it?
@DIYAudioGuy cool my math came out to 52.91, for 700x4 = 2800 and square root is 52.91 so. All I gotta do is set my gain to 52.91 or pretty much dead near and I should be good?
Do the formulas work the same for amps that are bridged to provide more power? ie - trying to match volts so you get a given wattage and avoid blowing the doors off literally. Let's assume we've found the magic number on the Head Unit w/o distortion. Also, do you recommend having all sound enhancements on so someone doesn't blow your system by turning them on without you knowing?
Yes, and it depends on what you mean by sound enhancements. Some head units with a subwoofer output need to have the subwoofer output all the way up when setting gains.
@@DIYAudioGuy Funny, I'm actually watching your 4 channel amp setting vid rn.. I meant Loudness and Bass Boost, etc for enhancements. Stock H/U so I don't know if there is a separate Sub out.?? Thanks for the response!!!
@@AT-wl9yq I ended up not going with the bridged setup, but the price diff doesn't always allow for an amp that can push that much power; which is why I was looking at the option. Plus, there are many amps that are 4 ohm stable in bridged mode without major sq loss. Thanks for the reply.
I also use the DD-1 but adjust the voltage to match the speakers in every channel as per manufacturer, the only thing I had problem when starting this hobby is what signal use to adjust levels. That was 4 years ago until I got the DD-1 and a lot of videos from JL AUDIO, MOSCONI, AUDISON, AUDIOCONTROL, AUDIOFROG, AND LATELY HELIX. THANKS, I thing I got the idea
Love your video's! very easy to listen to and understand. I do think i need to get you DD-1+ for Christmas. It's a lot more to that than i think you realize :). FYI: If you want to know how much power your amp is actually presenting to a sub, we have the AMM-1. Not trying to push my stuff on your channel my brother, sorry. I'm just sayin' we have something for everything. Also, i would like to point out that there is a lot more to setting gains than just watching for a light or watching for the wave form to start clipping. Whether it is a DD-1 or an O-scope, the proper procedure when using them should be talked about (because there is important things like gain overlap to consider). I almost ALWAYS tell people to buy and learn how to properly use the scope first and then there is no way they won't like the "upgrade" the (i won't say it because i ain't trying to spam your page with my product haha!) Thanks for the mentions! Watch for an email!
Hey man, been watching your stuff for years. I've got a few videos coming up in the next few weeks that you might be interested in. 😉
Edit: I'm definitely not trying to discount the importance of the proper procedure. But the real value of the DD1 is that you know for sure what you're looking at. When the light is on you're distorted. End of story.
@@DIYAudioGuy well i think i want to send you a Plus (DD-1+) that is...because it is a lot more than just a light. The standard issue DD-1 is a step up from a scope for sure. But the plus does so MUCH more. email sent. Thanks again!
Your a legend Steve!!! One of your videos came up when I was watching youtube probably around 5 to 6 years ago. Between you and my father, yall got me hooked into car audio and I will never turn back.
Oooo man , wish i could buy all your gear , curently i have the combo (dd1 +cc1) , but very hard to find them in europe/romania , and not reallly cheap for us either 😅. Next i wanna have the amm1 ❤️
Wow.. amazing find you here.now.I know from where is coming all the abilities...🙏
I can't remember the last time I bought an amp that didn't have a clip indicator on it. Also up sizing the amp a little from the rms actually needed is a good way to stay away from clipping.
As far as the "75% rule", you use the oscilloscope to see where the head unit clips.
True and that’s why I like amp brands that are underrated. Buy what you need and get extra overhead built in 😂
Qa9
My buddy Justin just showed me how to set my gains with a multimeter a few years ago!
I'm a sneaky bastard. 😂🤣😂🤣
I love how you circled back on this topic. Great info.
So many people had questions that I felt I needed to. I think it's important to point out that there are better ways to do it and that sometimes these better tools are worth the money.
Stopped by local shop here just to find out where my deck maxes out, The guys told me they were backed up for a month and it'd be like $100 to do it. crazy. So now I've got the O scope
A lot of shops don't want to work on your car unless they're selling you equipment.
On the setup in my car I tried 3 different ways. I used JL Audio's gain procedure with a meter, I used a SMD DD-1, and I used an Oscope. The differences were negligible. Same amps, same everything. I just wanted to see what worked better, and I was surprised how close they all were.
Exactly! If you avoid brands that inflate their power numbers and stay away from bottom of the barrel distorted junk all three methods are going to get you very close to each other.
You got to remember, back in the day, shops would set by ear or use a multimeter. Nobody had a DD1 in 1996, and only the high-end shops would have RTA's and oscilloscopes. Even then they would not use those tools on every install. They would only dig those out if they were up charging a customer on a sound quality installation.
@@DIYAudioGuy I've been installing professionally since 1994. I remember. lol
The 75% rule is good if you dont know the output voltage for the head unit, but if you know the preout voltage from the datasheet, you can measure that on the RCA cables in AC on the center pin and the shield. Turn it down just a smidge when its at the target voltage.
Then you hook up the head unit to the amplifier, and match the input voltage with the output voltage of the head unit. You can do this by reading the datasheet from the amp manufacturer, and it should have a place it says Input voltage, usually something like 0-4/5v. Then adjust the gain knob for gain, until its in the area of the output voltage for the preout. The simplest way for this is to divide the gain into percentage, so for 5 its easy, each volt is a 20% increment. Again, adjust it down just a smidge to be safe. This allows the amp to run at full juice at max volume without clipping.
If you want to match the RMS of the speaker, to the output of the amplifier, complete step 1 to find the unclipped voltage of the head unit, then use the math method of sqrt(Watt*Ohm) of the speaker, to get a rough estimate of the voltage you need to set. Play a 40hz/1k test tone, and set the voltage to around that, and then turn it back just a smidge.
After this you should be golden, no distortion, no speaker blown and happy days!
If you have no multi-meter, reset the amp gain, turn up the head unit to max, listen for distortion and turn it down until its gone. Then turn up the amp gain to max excursion for the speaker, or until it distorts, then bring it back down until it doesn't and you're golden (Less accurate method though, even compared to multi-meter)
Yep.
So if you have 5v preouts on headunit, can you help me with how to set my amp gain or how to test the rca cable. Would I turn my amp gain to 5v?
Also I have 500watts x 4ohms= 2000. The square root of 2000 is 44.12v, I should get that when testing the speaker terminals in ac mode. Seems high & especially when he said the same thing in the video. That was about a whole different amp & etc. Appreciate the help
@@Spidamann10 Remember that the watts is not linear, and at high volume you need a lot of voltage for not a lot of extra volume.
You should turn the headunit volume at 40hz until you get 5v between the ground and center pin. Then hook up the RCA to the amplifier, with the amp gain turned all the way down.
Now turn the AMP gain, still with the headunit set to its max clean voltage, and slowly turn up the AMP gain until you measure roughly 45v AC on the outputs. You can do this with the speakers plugged in, should be fine.
If the amp is MORE powerful than the speakers, you will hear them reach over excursion, and dial it down 1.5-2 hours on the clock to leave headroom.
If the amp is LESS powerful than the speaker, it will clip before you reach 45v, and in this case you should watch for the clip light and turn it down 2 hours, or when you hear it start to affect the sound then turn it down 2 hours.
I actually bought this oscilloscope multimeter of your recommendation last week. Been using it on multiple systems since, works great! I love how I can SEE when it starts to distort, track the voltage, and use my ears to tune amps. Like I might have a good ear and the target voltage might look fine, but the graph shows otherwise, and now I feel more confident off properly tuning it every time
I'm glad to hear it's working for you!
8:25 how is this part done? The waves can be huge in o scope mode
The buttons under the display let you zoom in/out on the waveform.
Thank you, I was able to use the multimeter to verify gain against the built in light on Key 500.1, worked perfectly
I think the nicer portable Oscilloscopes on the market are better than the DD-1. I recently upgraded to the Hantek portable Oscilloscope. It has a built in signal generator. The screen is really nice too. I'm now able to input a signal in the amp and watch how the crossover performs at different frequencies. With a scope you can get into repairing amps and other electronics if you want. Way more versatility with a scope.
Oh cool! I did not know that. That's so much nicer than plugging in a cell phone into the RCAs.
I use a below $50 oszilloscope and it works fine. A more expensive one would hopefully have some more auto-adjustment to see automatically a wave or two of the actual voltage and frequency, but it works manually as well.
I did my do diligence when coming back to car audio since my daughter is now into her teenage years. So, I decided to check out as many amp dyno videos as I could to see what companies are valid as well as efficient. Currently use a Maxspeedingrods Android Head unit, Orion XTR750.4 to run my front and rear 6.5"/1" components, and CT-SOUNDS 1000.1D into a dvc 2 ohm ct sounds tropo 10 in a sealed box with 3/4" mdf and proper internal space required by sub wired down to 1ohm for max wattage. All of course powered with a rear Yellowtop Optima battery and battery isolator. It sounds fantastic! Be upgrading to two 12s eventually once I upgrade my components as I'm a SQL guy. 😉
Awesome!
Thank you. Just bought an Abestop Oscilloscope. New to checking anything electrical. Normally read manuals buy what seems right, connect, power on and go.
I spoke before you ended the video I'm so glad you mentioned that dd-1 is not always the best as most of us like the big amp lol
If you are a pro working in a shop it is a great tool. But not a good investment if you just plan to install one amp every few years.
I admire your honesty and transparency!! You're my new hero!
That is what I shoot for.
I appreciate you making this update vid, but I’ve been using your metod every since I watched that video and I haven’t had any problems! Although I have noticed that with amps that have a clip light, after setting gains with multi-meter it will clip and I’ll have to turn it down just a little bit. Anyways, thank you, I’ll look into an O-Scope! 💪🏽
Those clip lights are awesome.
Thanks. Very important to know.
Love all the vids!
Glad you liked them!
Been doing it for 25 years.
Works good.
And damn sure works better than any of the over priced so called amp tuning devices
Like SMD AND OTHER NAME BRANDS.
Good to know.
yep
For the price difference...no justification
Helpful video very easy to follow. I went and set my gains and forgot to disconnect my speakers bigo mistake. Smelled an electricity smell and when I went to play something, my front left speaker was faint and staticky no bass poor sound, It also set the amps protection off, luckily have and installed an replacement 😅.
Apart from that Im doing 90% on head unit no issues, kenwood head unit seems happy and with a bonus of lower set gain on amp cleaner sound :).
Oh man, sorry that happened. I might take a screenshot of this and share it. Hopefully we can prevent others from making the same mistake.
If I do share it I'll blur out your name.
Yeah I went to 19v by accident too far was super touchy the speaker can only handle 14v rms at 3 ohm 65 watts, so ye. Also was using 1khz 0db tone. Gotta unplug and trust the numbers. 👍
On the Fluke O-scope I have and can enter the ohm load when setting the gains. I use a multimeter to set my crossovers.
Awesome!
Thank u so much my taramp kept clipping and shutting off. I used ur math and my multimeter and it sounds great thank u again. Using a multimeter is the easiest way for a average day to day guy with out spending extra money
Awesome! I'm glad this video was helpful.
Should I multiply the target voltage by 1.414 to measure with a peak to peak voltmeter. My one is not true RMS DMM
Need your help please. I have a JBL Stadium 4 amp, 4channel, 4ohm, so 100x4= 400, sq root is 20v. Now when i set my multimeter to AC voltage and stick the probes into the positve and neg speaker terminal on one channel, and play a 1000hz test track at 75% volume, and turn up gain i only get like 2.8 v, nowhere near 20v, whats wrong ?
For anyone wondering about the “75 percent” idea… you can tune the Pioneer DEH-80PRS at full tilt (100 percent). It doesn’t clip at full tilt.
That's a great piece of gear!
I have the LM2001 and love it. I tuned my taramp 8k with it, because I didn't really trust the clip LED on the amp. Well, with the o-scope, I found out that the clip LED is pretty much spot on. I now know I can trust it, but, I'll still use the o-scope as a little bit more of a safety measure.
Awesome!
I just use my handy DIY Distortion Detector to set my amplifier gains. All I used was a small 3" Visaton - FRS 7, 2 1/2" 8-Ohm Speaker, an Audyn Cap - Plus Series 2-Layer Metallized Polypropylene Foil Capacitor, small 5-way binding post, & a project box to put it in. I plug in my Multimeter Probe Wires into the 5-Way Binding Post & connect the probes into my speaker terminals & use a -5dB 40Hz Test Tone Track & get a distorted sound threw the speaker only when distortion/clipping is present. It is extremely accurate & only cost about $20.00 to make.
👍
crazy, Just got mine today! gonna solder up some RCA to 4mm leads and other types of leads
Nice!!
Another cheap option is to use small speaker with non polar capacitor(2.2uf-3.3uf will do) attached to one of the pin. Set gain to minimum then increase until distortion heard(easily notice as it was quite loud) on the small speaker.
Edit: then decrese gain until no distortion heard.
Never thought. Interesting. Nice info bro.
Yea, that clipping is pretty loud on a tweeter and you can hear it easily.
4:39 for me that would actually be more of a reason to use a multimeter instead of o scope. For example, i take 2 american bass xmaxx 6krms total and i hook them up to a salt 6k on good electrical, i might cook them not know that i'm sending 9,500rms (after rise) watts to them. However if i use the multimeter and set it to a target voltage, i won't be over powering them.
That's a lot of power.
I bought one of the $30 diy solder together oscilloscope kits off of Amazon and it works extremely well for setting the gains of amplifiers
Cool.
I bought one the same model but it was already put together but I cannot figure out how to work this thing there's no instructions or anything with it just one little manual that shows how to build it any idea if there's any information on how to run this thing
I installed for over 20 years and into my later years of setting amps I used inspectors lacquer that would leave evidence if "somebody that knew better" put a pipe wrench on their gains. Far too many times we'd have launched subs and smoked amps and nobody knew nuthin'! If you've never used it - it's a great way to tell if the adjustments have been tampered with.
People see a knob they can't help it, they just have to turn it up.
It doesn't really matter if your amp does below, above or right at the rated numbers. The impedance of the driver changes with frequency so you need to set it up for your specific setup and there's nothing on the gain knob that is going to indicate that to you. Also the input level determines how much gain you need to hit a certain power level. Portable O-Scope is a must have.
For me it's not about trying to make a certain amount of power, It's about not clipping.
@@DIYAudioGuy well you don't want to smoke your drivers, unless you like the smell 😅
I have and have had for several years more than 1 DSO shell that I use for work. It’s fairly accurate and has a fast response.
👍
So this is odd, Did my Alpine HD149BT. I still had a channel plugged into the dsp but turned down. With a 1khz 0db You could clearly HEAR the distortion start exactly from 27 to 28 on the volume But the wave looks great all the way to 35 (max) scale adjusted to fill the screen and everything. When I ran it through the DSP too (dsp not even turned up high) you clearly see the wave form develop a weird "dent" at the 27-28 mark. Validating what I heard. really weird.
I have a pair of Kenwoods for my mids and highs, they emit a high frequency hum when clipping.
Would be interesting to see a video, or your opinions on the DD-1 Manual and using the 0, -5 and -10 tracks. I set everything to 0db and the system just has no power compared to when I just tuned it by ear (the "yup, thats loud enough" method). Also, through research (testing oscope on my headphone amp) finding out Spotify drops -14db if using "normalize volume" and tons of songs out there are rarely at 0db.. Gonna try the -5db track for highs and -10db on my bass tonight. It sounds to me like this is a CRITICAL element to consider regardless of using voltmeter, O-scope, DD-1 etc.
Enjoying the audio journey with you. My next rabbit hole is crossovers, as the back of the manual indicates I maybe should be using closer to 100hz instead of the golden 80hz number. Along with further REW tuning after making any changes.
There's a lot of confusion about 0 vs -5 vs -10. I think I do need to make a video on that.
sound clips didn't give me a jumpscare on this video. i believe one day we can add limiters on old youtube videos. i have an old hamburger phone video that has audio that makes me cringe really bad whenever i watch it.
thanks DIY Audio Guy. your videos are most effective in helping me learn about audio amplifiers.
Where can i go n get my amp adjust before distortion and clipping start? I i don't have the DD1 tool's beside a multimeter. Thanks
You can use an oscilloscope (see link in the product description) or watch this video. th-cam.com/video/MBcGOoRJ4Ro/w-d-xo.html
The screen resolution on a handheld is not accurate enough to see distortion. The DD-1 and DD-1+ do not measure to clipping, they measure to 1% THD so the systems set with these are very clean. In addition, the DD1+ can be used to gain match as it has a DMM built in. They are expensive for sure but as you pointed out, you can't rely on what MFG power ratings are. My personal system is JL Audio XD v2 series amps. These are rated for 75w @4 ohms and 300w @2 ohms (sub) but in actuality, they put out 100w @4 ohms and 450 @2 ohms. The extra power, particularly on the sub, took the system to the next level. On the flip side, I had customers with cheap BOSS amps come in for diagnostics and they are nowhere near rated power. The good news is, it usually results in an AMP sale and installation labor :D. If you are going to get a DD-1 then get the DD-1+ for the built in DMM function.
👍
I just got the aukuyee on black friday sale for 38 bucks.
Theres several videos about it.
Next level car audio compares it to a bench top o scope and a clip light on his amp.
Cool
Can you find the clipping point on your head unit by measuring the voltage of your rca pre-outs? Like if you have 4 volt pre out can you just increase volume until you just exceed that voltage and fail back to 4 volts or slightly less?
Yes, assuming that the head unit is clean at 4v that will work.
I need help I have a Sony xplod it says 1000 Watts and I have two 12-in sundown subwoofers and I need them to correspond together so they work properly and not burn something up or blow something up how would I do that and this is a my first go-around
I would need a lot more info to help you.
It seems like you could use the same multimeter method and formula to first find your clip volume on the head unit? …if 75 or 85% is kind of an arbitrary number… or am I reading too far into this? Would this be beneficial prior to setting amp gains in order to get a more accurate voltage reading and gain adjustment on the amp?
A cheap multimeter is a tool only when one knows how to use it. Under or over powered ratings, RMS, formulas, and pen/pencil are useful additional tools. I set my system that way. Something else useful is testing many individual frequencies, see what voltage is good that would not distort, writing it down then setting the gain that way. I did that with RCA Voltage set at it's highest and Bass boost up to 9db at 62Hz, 100Hz, and 180Hz; and the volume at 32. I know I don't distort at all. I don't really use the Bass boost to 9db but I know I can without distortion if I wanted to.
You are not wrong, it's all about knowing how to use the tool.
Cheap multimeters with “ true rms” are not that good . That’s a problem with the higher frequencies.
Couldn’t you use the o scope on your head units rca’s back at the amp and see if those are clipping at whatever “max volume” you use?
Yes
My question is you say take the watts RMS x ohms and then take the square root would you not be more accurate to read the ohms of each speaker and use that instead of 16,8,4,2,1 ohms?
If you were connected to a resistor instead of a speaker you would be correct. But speakers are AC devices, and with an AC device, the impedance varies with frequency. The math we're doing here is an approximation. The goal is to get close without going over.
Good video
Voltage X fuse rating Divide by efficiency
I use both, get into the ball park then you the scope to find my max…Then you have to use a RTA.
Thanks!
@@DIYAudioGuy it’s voltage of the car not watt…brain fart. The efficiency of the amp was the 3rd parameter.
@@cyanidebill I knew what you meant.
When you set gains with a o-scope you need to put it in FFT mode so that you can see the harmonics, if you try and lool at the sine wave to set the gain you will surely be leaving some power on the table.
I don't think the cheap scopes will do that.
Weird.. When I connect my subs, I turn up into a clean wave.. Then when I disconnect, it's clipped.
67 or so volts clean open, and I can get 72 clean under load
Hey man, please correct me if I'm wrong. If you took a multimeter and set it to dc millivolts and put the leads on the amplifier output and testing with a sine wave. I would think that the reading would be zero until it started clipping and then would read dc volts as soon as it started clipping?🤔
I like the Multi-Meter for under voltage. I have 2 Sundown SA 10's rated at 750w a piece, running parallel to get 1 ohm at 1,500w. I have a 2,500 RMS Orion XTR, so I have to adjust the gain to about 38 volts so I don't over power the SA's.
Yea. I think the DD 1+ displays voltage. So you can use it to make sure that you're not distorted and then turn the amp down to match the subs.
I just installed a JL rd1000/1 and did everything “to a T” with the 75% volume, and when I increased the gain, the clipping light would not come on, tried for hours, used a multimeter as well. This morning I just hooked up the subs, started low and somehow the clipping light worked this time with the subs connected, no idea what the deal was. Good info here though. Thanks.
If you have a clip light on the amplifier that's all you need.
@@DIYAudioGuy yes, but it was not illuminating as I adjusted. Now I guess it’s fine, but I need to do some fine tuning and eq
Can you show us how to set up the multimeter for testing the voltage the amplifier
th-cam.com/video/MBcGOoRJ4Ro/w-d-xo.html
How do you match gains when you have a current head unit(5V out) and an old school amplifiers(2.5V input)?
It should not be any different. You may end up having to turn the head unit down.
The oscilloscope that I bought has a voltage reading should I trust that or still use a multimeter for voltage?
Yeah, that should be fine.
@@DIYAudioGuy oscilloscope was reading 8 volts above the volt meter so I just used the volt meter to set the gain while using the oscope for wave distortion. Definitely helped.
I usually set my bass amp gain with the bass boost all the way up and bass knob all the way up with a tweeter. I hook a tweeter with a capacitor to my subwoofer channel. I play 0db 40hz test tone at volume 35 of 40 on my Pioneer headunit. Turn the gain up to it makes a buzz. then turn it down until the buzz goes away. What's your thoughts on this method? I listen to mainly all bass boosted demo songs from TH-cam music app. so that's why I use the 0db 40hz test tone.
Yes, the tweeter method. It works just fine.
I have a 500 watt amp, and 2 woofers wired to 4ohms. The spec sheet says "Power handling RMS 200 watts" , and "Power handling max 400watts". What should the gain be on these?
The game on the amp should be set so that the amp produces 400 watts the volume is turned all the way up.
Easiest method is buy a decent amplifier with a clip indicator! Problem solved. But I did use the equation on a kicker CXA 1800 amp in a friends vehicle worked great and I of course rounded down to be safe! Thanks
That is a solid strategy.
What if the fuses are 120amp with 63v rail caps 🤷 if I do the math it's under 1k watts max at 4 ohms with 16v input? Is it safe calling it 600rms
If the amplifier has an unregulated power supply you will get more power with 16 volts of input versus the 12 to 14 that most vehicles operate with. I'm not really sure how the rail caps enter into the calculation. Those are internal parts and that is outside of my area of expertise. At the level of complexity you seem to be dealing with you should go with the more complicated and expensive tools.
@@DIYAudioGuy I suspect it's somewhere around 49v on the he speaker terminals I'm on a stick alternator with standard automotive battery around 13.5v
for a long time i usually just tuned by ear/dmm..its pretty easy on smaller speakers to hear distortion compared to a large woofer. A DMM like you said is helpful say you have a amp rated at 760rmsx1chan (mono) and a sub rated for 600wRMS in my case a RF P3 '12..ahhh yes the DD1!..a friend had one and sold it to me for $50 bucks..he had laying around he was selling all his car audio stuff
in this case a DMM is helpful once you find amps THD/distortion that DD1 does. Probe amp output and lower gain to match ball park voltage to the sub. (35.4v * 35.4v)=1,253.16/2ohm = about 620w RMS with a 40hz tone...TLDR
this NVS amp i have on my car was putting out about 42volts which is more than rated on rms box
Now that I've done this a few times I'm starting to recognize what distortion sounds like.
how about using an analog voltmeter ? isn't it more accurate because it shows you the average currant volt since we measuring frequencies (AC).
If you're using a true RMS digital one, it'll work just fine.
Good video. I have three things I want to mention:
1. I disagree with you on manufactures providing the exact rms power ratings. Not every same amp will put out the same exact wattage as one another. One NVX VAD800.4, for example, might put out 800rms x 4 at it rated ohm’s, while another NVX VAD800.4 might put out 900rms watts at the same rated ohm. Just like vehicles, the manufacturer puts out its hp and torque, knowing not all manufactured same year Camaro SS’s, for example, are going to put out the exact same hp and tq. Same thing applies to amps.
2. I disagree with matching an amp rms power to a subs rms power, at their given ohm. I don’t know how many amps I’ve had in my lifetime. It’s a lot. But this I do know, that every single amp I’ve matched to my sub on rms power and ohm’s, has had to be replaced at one point in time. Whether that point of time was one month, or two years, they had to be replaced due to the amp overheating. Why were these amps overheating? Because they were being pushed to their limits too often! And when it’s giving its max energy for long periods of time, just like a gym rat, if he does his max all the time, they will burn out FAST! And an amp does just that. Now, not everyone listens to their music blasted high for long periods of time. So having that matched rms for its ohm’s might work out just fine. But for those of us who do have our music blasting loud frequently, I have found it best to find an amp that puts out more rms power than the subs rms, at their given ohm. For example, I have a Sundown SA-10 D4 Classic, wired to a 2ohm load, and it’s rated at 750W rms (even though everyone knows this sub can easily handle 1200-1400W rms). The amp I push it with is a NVX VAD17001, which pushes 1350W rms @2ohm (it has been test benched to do over 1600W rms @2ohm stable). This amp slaps my Sundown sun hard. I’m only pushing about 1000W rms to my Sundown sun too, and the amp never get hot. Why? Because it’s not pushing even close to what it can. So using a higher rms rated amp isn’t bad imo. But you do have to be careful on not overpowering your sub, and know that your sub can handle the power.
3. I use a NVX VAD800.4 for my F&R Audison Voce components, and have been doing so for 4 years now. I don’t know how many db’s my car reads, but it gets LOUD to say the least. This NVX amp is amazing, and is why I have been sold on NVX amps in general. It also has been tested to push far more than it’s 800rms as advertised, which shows how good the quality of this amp is, especially for the price. I’m an NVX amp and Sundown sub enthusiast for life now. Both are amazing brands! Highly recommend them!
I have the old version of that amp. Rock solid.
I have a 2000 watt amp and a 400 rms subwoofer can I use the multimeter method to turn the amp down?
Yes.
Just curios, does my car needs to be turned on/idling when setting amp gain?
That is up for debate. I usually do this with the car off, but there are others that say you have to do it with the car on.
I notice with DD1 and oscilloscope, you get one setting for your gain. With multimeter, 2 ohm voltage differs from 4 ohm voltage with most amplifiers. So would you send a distorted signal if you don't make the adjustment?
Scope/DD-1 will maximize your power. The multimeter sets the amp at a specific power level.
DMM method works. If you are running outside of freq resp or right on the edge then there is a problem. I only have amps the Dereck has ran on the AD-1 so I have ample headroom. Just make sure that your sub(s) are disconnected.
Good video DIY
Thanks!
I have a kicker cxa800.1 pushing 2 kicker l7t 10 inch subwoofers in a sealed box. Need help tuning the cover frequency and the gain. Also, should I stay with sealed box or go ported?
I prefer ported, you'll get more output and more low-end extension.
I've got a couple of videos on setting crossovers. Here is one of them.
th-cam.com/video/bNauOkzdTRM/w-d-xo.html
A few years ago I got a DD1, mostly cause oscilloscopes are silly expensive where I am. A decent oscilloscope was more than the DD1 even factoring in the exchange.
I tested all the head units I had (Pioneer, JVC, Kenwood, Alpine) and only the Kenwood did not clip at full volume with a 40hz track. The Pioneers did, but their max was 62 (from memory) and it didn't clip at 60/62.
I bought the DD1 and justified it as it takes out the guesswork and I can crank it all the way up and not blow anything up!
I also set gain overlaps, 2.5db for the full range amps, and 7.5db for the subwoofer/monoblock amps.
Awesome!
@@DIYAudioGuy Maybe if you could get a DD-1 you could do a video about gain overlaps: what they are, how they are used, why they are used and what is typically used to set amps, even if just a starting point. I know others set higher overlaps than I do, I thought I'd err on the safe side. 🤔😁
I’m a diy guy and just want to set the LOC & 2 amps…. I got a meter but don’t want to buy a oscilloscope for a 1 time use…… What avenue would you take?
Head unit, LOC, two amplifiers? You need to get the O Scope.
@@DIYAudioGuy ok, appreciate it!
DD1 may show you clipping but does not show voltage to GAIN MATCH amps
Looks like the DD1+ shows voltage.
@DiyAudioGuy I'm a subscriber on your channel I really enjoy your content thank you for all the information,tips and reviews. I'm having trouble adjusting my sound system. I kept the stock factory radio, tapped into the rear subwoofer to get the signal for the Loc NVX XLCA2, Leige Audio LG-500.1D hooked up to a 10 Kicker solobarick L5 wired at 2-ohm. My question is did you have to adjust the loc like the amplifier !😂
Yes, that loc has a gain control. If you check the manual it will tell you what voltage it can output. You can use remote to read the voltage coming out of the RCA's.
I use a piezo buzzer. They won't work for mids or highs though but for that I made a distortion detector that cost $20 to make. It does the same thing as the clipping light on some bass knobs.
Cool!
So what if your amp does rated power but your sub is rated less then the amp? Example amp rated 800 rms , speaker rated 500rms? If you get o scope to tune till clipping you would over power your sub.
Correct.
Thanks for all the Videos. I do the same thing and have for years. Was pretty shocked well not really but was surprised to see the AMP fuse ratting on every Taramps amp at half rated power. They do have full fuse rating but only if you play a set tone LMAO!!!
Not sure what to make of that.
I cant understand the amd dd1 plus for the life of me please help by explaining it in atupid terms i gues on how to realy tune 3 diffrent amps on a cross over
th-cam.com/video/20XiqMBPIks/w-d-xo.html
So I recently installed a cheap head unit from Amazon which I kept the gain on my audio pipe apmn 1500 where I had it on my previous pioneer head unit and apparently clipped my sub to death and had no idea being it only has a .7 volt sub rca output. I ordered a new American Bass Elite 12 and a kicker line output converter/line driver to pull signal for my sub from the original speaker level connections since my door speakers are ran off a 4 channel and those are unused. Would I 75% since I assume the cheap head unit obviously clips at full volume then test the voltage after the line driver then match with voltage from the amp? The sub will be wired down to 2 ohm and the amp does 1000w rms at 2ohms the rms on the sub is 1200w
Since you are running a head unit, a line driver, and an amp I would recommend that you get a cheap O-scope. The 75% rule will mostly work, but the extra links in the signal chain have bumped you up to the point where that rule is less effective.
Just watched your video on setting gain. I have a question-with a 4 channel amp producing 45 watts(rms) per channel is the amp gain set at square root of 180 (45 × 4 ohm) per channel or square root of 360 for the L&R front and L&R rear. Thanks
Square root of 180.
After adding DSP I've set up my head unit to use 40/40 volume.
I had to stop using the RCA out because of unfixable hum and used the high level inputs on the DSP-408 and 40/40 on the head unit requires setting the volume in the head unit to -16dB to prevent overloading the DSP's high level inputs. So I feel like after doing that any chance of distortion from using max volume on the head unit is eliminated. I have zero noise after doing this and it's nice knowing I can max it out instead of trying to stay at 34/40 like I used to.
I feel I do everything car audio related differently than anyone else lol.
That's what makes it fun!
@@DIYAudioGuy Indeed!
I'm going to try out some crossovers I built the other day. I ordered new speakers and I have everything but the woofers. Bought a $7 soldering iron kit and assembled the crossover for them. The woofers are Back-ordered so it'll be 2 weeks before I can install but I'm so excited to try it out in the car. Then I can say my system is really custom. Crossover and everything. (I used Xsim to plan the crossover. In car response will be different but hopefully DSP EQ-able)
I tested the crossover with some Polk T15s and posted it as a video on my channel. Next time I might get a bread board or something and make it smaller but it was very fun to learn how to solder and all that. Soldering is easy as long as you're patient.
Is this about NOT using a Digital Mm?..
Or an infomercial?..
Justin it's also important to use an o-scope to gain match say using multiple amps. Great Great video Justin keep up the good work !!!
👍
You can use a tweeter with a capacitor to set your amps with as well if you don't have the money to buy a SMD DD-1 or a oscilloskop, might not be so fancy but it works. (I have both the DD-1+ and a oscilloskop)
Sam over at barevids has a video on that.
Used volt meter setup n found I can pretty much crank mine all the way up because I'm only running a 1500d amp on a on a 1200 rms sub set my gain a little over half n it sounds good no need for more
Ears are the ultimate test equipment. If you like the sound then it is good.
I love the honesty. But you should go more in depth of how much you can do with the o scope, such as resistance, dc volt, ac volts, the capacity, hz that your playing, how to measure the volts on a rca or when it clipping, that o scope is a #1 tool for a diy guy I be glad to help you out if needed
For sure, these tools can do a whole lot more!
Okay so i have 6 ds18 speakers 6 tweeters 1 horn all on separate amp tweeters are on 1800 speakers are 1k rms each and runing on 8k 1ohm and sub is stealth box runing on 1200 watt i am so confused how to set the gain up on this with the cross over from clarion please please make a video showing how to tune this with the smd tool becuase no one has a cd changer anymore and smd comes with a cd i dont understand each track meaning and stuff please help
I jut ripped the tracks and loaded them on my phone.
Me and my cousin are trying to start a small audio shop he bought both of the SMD tools.. I bought the lumly .... After using all three tools a handful of times.
He wishes he would have bought a lumly instead because it does what both of those high price tools do in one device for less than half the cost of one
Yep.
Can I use multimeter on a power 1bdcp 500x1 fosgate mono
Sure!
the only time I whip out the multimeter is if I am going to be gain matching amps or channels on an amp.
That's one reason why I like the handheld scope, It does everything that a digital multimeter does. If you're running a shop definitely go with the SMD devices just for the speed and the convenience. The DD-1 Plus displays voltage.
@@DIYAudioGuy I’m just a hobbyist myself. Funny you mention it because I have a DD-1+ too and always forget about that lol
Great explanation ( I still use my liumy2001, and it's falling apart, but gets the job done with proper test tones. Real quick, the d4s, jp8 suggests a 120amp fuse
👍
@@DIYAudioGuy after the holidays I'll probably order the newer liumy, but they appear low on stock( maybe cargo ship issue? Idk). In the future, I'm also considering the dd1+. I like the idea of 'gain overlap' setting 👍🏼
@@christiandshatto7765 Nothing wrong with upgrading when you can!
I think you did a bang on job explaining the differences. I know you like that hand held all in one, but personally I don't think the screen has enough resolution. The $40 hand help oscilloscope is so much nicer to look at and use imo.
You are not wrong. The resolution could be a lot better.
Yes the $40 or $50 one is a lot easier to see , it has alot cleaner resolution than the Luimy ..But there again the luimy does a lot more stuff.. Steve Meade is right when it comes to the DD1+ and understanding overlap but it is very good to understand the oscilloscope first and learn it well before stepping up to the dd1+
So, I’m curious to see a few alps set with the MM and then again with the O scope… would it be different?
You will definitely get a different result. This is a low cost shortcut.
A VOM works perfectly well as long as you back down about 1.0 to 1.5% on your amp. Ive found that using the pre-out voltage and the AMP specs works well but it ALWAYS (for me anyway) needs to be backed down a percent or so or it still clips.
can one really use rms watt? as its(in the vast majority of cases) at 1% distortion
The goal is to set the gain so that you can get all of the clean power out of your subwoofer.
@@DIYAudioGuy maybe ill get a cheap oscilloscope and experiment a little
Ok, but another video you made taught me precisely to use a multimeter..? Lol! Which I thought is genius because I can set the exact wattage to specific speakers. Not just my subs, but my door speakers as well.
Toward the end of the video I'll give you some extra tips for using a multimeter. I made this video because I wanted to make a video talking about some of the drawbacks of the multimeter method. The biggest drawback is that people can't seem to do math. If you can do the math then the multimeter will work just fine.
@@DIYAudioGuy Ok, I can absolutely see that. Whatever tool makes it easiest. But to me, your video showing the multimeter was my favorite. Wish I had know this going back to my 20’s. I was that guy back then that thought the gain was basically a volume knob. Haha!
@@damon323 Back then I used the "set it about half way" method.
What if the amp has no fuse like SALT SERIES SUNDOWN AMPS??
Check the owner's manual for a fuse rating.
That JP8 amps says 120a fuse right in the description on their web page... and I'm pretty sure it's in the manual as well... just got the JP23 and it list all that info and I doubt that he would have left out that information as it's needed to hook the amp up...
Yep, I just flat out missed it. That happens sometimes.
Lots of good info in this vid.
Thank you. 😎👍👍
Thanks!
Hey man, keep going!!! I love presentation and video dimensration , if that's spelled right.. as a new guy I need help too . I watched the enclosure then freaking bought crap now I'm putting it 😤 it back rt .so with out going any further can show you what I have 3 15s Memphis mono Amp for 1 kicker driver
If you're anything like me then projects are never actually finished.
I just got an apocalypse 2900.1D. It does 1100 watts at 4 ohms, but I wanna punch her down to 700 at 4 ohms for my ddx 12. I'm not worried about clipping, but I just don't want to overpower my sub. Would I still be fine with using my multimeter for it?
Yes
@DIYAudioGuy cool my math came out to 52.91, for 700x4 = 2800 and square root is 52.91 so. All I gotta do is set my gain to 52.91 or pretty much dead near and I should be good?
@@djnaughtybass yep
@@DIYAudioGuy awesome thanks a ton
Do the formulas work the same for amps that are bridged to provide more power? ie - trying to match volts so you get a given wattage and avoid blowing the doors off literally. Let's assume we've found the magic number on the Head Unit w/o distortion. Also, do you recommend having all sound enhancements on so someone doesn't blow your system by turning them on without you knowing?
Yes, and it depends on what you mean by sound enhancements. Some head units with a subwoofer output need to have the subwoofer output all the way up when setting gains.
@@DIYAudioGuy Funny, I'm actually watching your 4 channel amp setting vid rn.. I meant Loudness and Bass Boost, etc for enhancements. Stock H/U so I don't know if there is a separate Sub out.?? Thanks for the response!!!
@@AT-wl9yq I ended up not going with the bridged setup, but the price diff doesn't always allow for an amp that can push that much power; which is why I was looking at the option. Plus, there are many amps that are 4 ohm stable in bridged mode without major sq loss. Thanks for the reply.
I also use the DD-1 but adjust the voltage to match the speakers in every channel as per manufacturer, the only thing I had problem when starting this hobby is what signal use to adjust levels. That was 4 years ago until I got the DD-1 and a lot of videos from JL AUDIO, MOSCONI, AUDISON, AUDIOCONTROL, AUDIOFROG, AND LATELY HELIX. THANKS, I thing I got the idea
From what I gather the DD1 + added a lot of functionality, much more than just a light.