I am glad to have found your channel. 2nd year beek. Absolutely and completely enjoying the learning journey. It’s true to that the second year is where things get fun. I already have the strips cut, will make solution tomorrow. I have one hive with 6 mites from the wash another with 8. On hives with numbers like that can I put 6 strips or stick with 2 per box. I’m running double deeps. My swarms that were caught have almost none, 1-3. We use the Dawn soap wash. I was shocked that 1 hive I split from last year had 0 mites in the wash. That shocked me. But I was glad. With appreciation and gratitude 🐝
You could put 6 strips per box, but I think that is overkill if you did the formula like I described. I don't think it will make it last longer, only more oxalic in the hive until they chew them away. But if you do put 6 per hive, I don't think you are going to hurt anything either. Welcome to the channel.
Great video Chuck, a lot of good information. Also thank you for jumping on the chat, it was great to have you on, it is always nice to have another beekeeper's view point on how to do a different technique in beekeeping.
Been watching your channel for around 6 months, completing my first season of having a colony this spring with a bustling double deep coming thru winter and already filling the better part of two supers. Im in the same USDA zone but on other coast. I am really finding my timeline to sync up with yours and its been very helpful. I treated for mites last November with formic pro after testing 7%. Treatment bringing it down to just over 2% if memory serves me. Fast forward to early Feb (the 10th specifically) when I took a first peak in for '24 after noticing them pick up in energy and again performing a mite wash and recording 2.5% Understanding OAE is best done proactively while numbers are relatively low I wanted to get it made up and on the hive quick. Using a 1:1 acid to glycerin ratio of 120g total weight impregnated on 66 sq in 2mm chipboard. My chipboard was 11.5x11.5in from Michaels so I couldn't cut it into the long strips as shown so rather placed the chipboard "pads" staggered between the two brood boxs. That was on Feb 22nd. So anyway its been a month since the 2.5% reading and three weeks since application of OAE. I know the full window of time for maximum effectiveness was nearly two months (...I think) Two questions if you can offer your expertise. 1. Do you see any problem that the chipboard is placed sandwiched bettween the brood boxes vs hung down over frames, with a correspondingly lower sq in./weight dosage. 2. Even in the only three weeks since applying the OAE is it reasonable to expect any efficacy on the mites? I usually do mite washes on the monthly, so was planning on one in the next day or so anyways. I guess Ill see and report back if you dont mind...? Kinda as a note to myself since I cant seem to keep a written record lol./ Thank you for reading my questions and posting your findings there in 9b!!! Cheers Chuck!
Thanks for the detail and long comment. There can still be efficacy between the brood boxes, and Randy Oliver chooses this method with his OA Sponges. But the sponges hold much more OA per square centimeter. So to answer your questions, I think between the frames is better for chipboard, and sponges work good between double brood chambers. I am sure you will get some good results with your method, but perhaps not optimal.
Well the results are in, my mite levels rose to 3.8% ☹️ So I’m wondering what my next move should be… kicking around the options of adding some OAE in sponge form and removing the chipboard, doing a OA dribble, or if i wanna pull out the big guns give the hive a round of formic pro. I suppose doing nothing is also an option, and wait to see if the chipboard “pads” will become more effective in time but that seems like a gamble. On a happier note though my hive is eagerly putting away the nectar and drawing out new comb even quicker than when i was feeding them!
Thanks for the video. BTW, I use an infrared thermometer to watch the temperature. Getting two cheap ones enables me to verify they are reading the same and working properly. You provided very useful guidance, thanks again.
Just Subbed ! Watched Randy Oliver for a while. Swedish Sponges can be hard to source here in Scotland 🏴 so seeing you use Chip Board is a great alternative. Easy to get. . . Sweet. About to do my Autumn Oxalic Acid Dribble any day now (60ml per Brood Box : 5ml per Seam of Bees.) Want to try Extended Release for December to Spring coverage. Both my Bees and Me can have Snowy Winters. So we both stay in the Box and Home more. 🤭 🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝 Happy Beekeeping 2023 🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝
Good luck. I think Chipboard is actually better for the hobbiest/sideliener as they can go in both single deeps and double deeps, and nucs. The sponges are only effective in between double deeps.
Hi Chuck. I enjoy listening to your presentations. It is my 5th time using your recipe for the extended Oxalic Acid treatment by means of strips and I had no problems until the last time (which it was yesterday) I experienced massive bearding, after 2-3 hours of application , I removed the strips but the next day I had to deal with total colony collapse in two of my hives which came out of this Spring split and they were doing very well. I did not change anything from the recipe. I will appreciate your feed back, thank you in advance.
I don't know what to tell you, as I have never had this happen to me. Maybe something was off. My only recommendation would be to start over. OA is not a very harsh acid, it should not cause bearding like a formic application.
Informative video. The chipboard strips will also work for top bar and Layens hives. I use a combination of sponges on the hive floor and suspended shop towel strips hung from the top bars. I’m going to switch to chip board for easier handling.
I used to hang the shop towels between the bars too, But they just are a bit to flimsy to "push down" the chipboard of the right thickness ..is much better in my experience. Give it a try and let me know what you think.
Place 500g OA dihydrate into a stainless steel pan, then add 500g (400 mL) vegetable glycerin (add the glycerin second in order to avoid splashing of the solution). Place the pan over a low/medium heat (preferably using a double boiler), and heat the ingredients while closely monitoring the temperature, not to exceed 160°F (the acid crystals will dissolve at as low as 110°F, and start to bubble if the temperature exceeds 170°F). Occasionally stir gently until the acid crystals are completely dissolved and the solution is completely clear. At that point, remove the pan from heat. @@chuckshoneybees
Randy does not have to use water in his sponge formula, in earlier articles where he was testing with other media he uses water. The water is ONLY to help get the mixture into a solution that will absorb into the media. The water evaporates away leaving only the Oxalic Acid and Glycerin in the chipboard.
Thanks for an idea for a different substrate or delivery medium. Fortunately, I'm in New York where the extended release of oxalic acid is approved in our hives.
Chuck, I wanted to pass on a suggestion. I saw how you folded the strips across a frame. I am using an embossing tool I bought from Michaels. They may have them at Hobby Lobby also. It is in the section for making your own greeting cards. I find the center vertically and use the square as you did to make the strips even lengths. I clamp the square down and run the embossing tool on each side to make a crease to bend the chipboard. This will make the strips easier to fold across the frame. I cut my strips as you did lengthwise. Hope this will help.
I wonder, by exposing the mites to OA over extended time if we are creating the opportunity for them to build a resistance to OA. They seem to have built a resistance to so many other extended release treatments. Then we would lose OA vaporization as an effective tool. Would like to hear others thoughts about that.
There has not been any documentation of resistance to Oxalic Acid .. that I have found anyway, but a successful IPM strategy is important. Thanks for the comment.
@@chuckshoneybees I should have been clearer in my statement. OA vaporization has been an effective treatment for many years. One reason is, it stays in the hive a very short time. The mites do not have the opportunity to build a resistance. If we start leaving OA extended release in hives for a long time, it seems the mites we eventually have the opportunity to build a resistance like they have so many other extended release products. My concern is if we start using extended release OA we may be setting ourselves up to eventually lose OA vaporization as an effective tool because we created the opportunity with extended release for the mites to build resistance.
@@chuckshoneybeesregarding resistance to OA: The threshold for treatment has been lowered from 30/300 to 3/300 in the time that I've been keeping bees. Most don't even bother to test anymore. The frequency of treatment (with OA) has gone from once in the fall to almost constantly in the same period. For beekeepers to keep saying they don't see "documentation" of resistance when it's right in front of their faces is concerning. Finally, is the method in this video legal? I watched it months ago, but don't remember if that question was asked/answered.
Hey Chuck, got a couple questions on your formula/ratios. 1. I don’t see where Randy says he uses any water in his process, what is your reasoning for it and does it make a huge difference? 2. I was rereading is info and he states he’s doing a 50/50 ratio by weight, but you say on the glycerin to use ml, why so? I’ve done the maximizer pads before and personally think the folded chipboard your showing makes a bit more since, do you think a 50/50 ratio by weight would be a good formula to follow for them? I would be making them in batches of 50 at a time.
Randy used water for the chipboard strips, when he was testing with them, he no longer uses chipboard to my knowledge. The water makes the solution "thinner" so it goes into the cardboard, it evaporates off so it is only part of the solution process to get the OA into the chipboard. The weight and volume of these ingredients is so close I use volume for simplicity for liquids. I think I mention this somewhere.
Hi Chuck, I tried using chipboards for the mites. Unfortunately the mites don't fall out and the chipboard doesn't have a sour taste to it. On the other hand when I used shop towels the mites fell out and it was pretty sour. Any tips on what I could change or do differently to make the chipboard work? Thanks
Not sure what to tell you if you are getting the recommended number of grams of OA into each strip, that is the process. You could switch to Swedish sponges if you are using double deeps.
Great and very clear! Just a question, the actual randy oliver article suggest 1:1 oa/glycerin. He doesn't user water (and warn about humidity) and use weight not weight/volume. Does randy get new data and update his article? Or are you up to date with him ? So i am a bit confused on what recipe to follow.
Randy has iterated over time, and he now uses sponges. You don't need water to use the sponges, but to get the solution into the cardboard you do need to use water, but it evaporates anyway, so its just about the solution. The only important number is the amount of OA you are putting in the hive. The glycerin and water are just to get the OA into a solution to hold in the substrate.
Hi Chuck. I just started beekeeping. I have found your channel to be the best out there, especially since I live NE of Orlando. Do you used other mite treatments as well, or just the OA? Thank you for all of the time you spend helping all of us learn!
Thanks for joining the conversation! I only currently use OA as it is been the most effective organic treatment I have found. Some disagree with this, but I have not read or heard any issues with resistance to an organic acid's mode of action over time with Varroa Destructor.
I use OAV as a spot treatment if a hive or nuc gets too high.. these Strips keep OA in the hive over a period of time, and if you keep up with it and not let them get too old it keeps the mites down.
I don't have a shelf life number based on any science, but I have stored them in a bag in the refrigerator over a year personally. The dampness depends on the temperature, but typically at normal temperatures (if you got the glycerin/water/OA ratios right, they will be dry and a bit crusty once the water evaporates.
Hello and thank you for sharing your knowledge with us. I had two questions; a hive with 10 frames, buy as many strips as you want, with these reports you have here in the video? And to what temperature is the acidoxalic glycerin mixture heated?
as low a temperature as you can to get it into solution. Randy Oliver has a maximum temperature of !40-170 if I recall, but I am doing that from memory. I don't measure, I just slow heat it until the OA goes into solution and it never overheats that way.
@@chuckshoneybeesI place the board into the hives yesterday I see a lot of shavings coming out like you mentioned, is the dosage too small for 10 g per strip ? I don’t see any of the fallen mites yet, will do the Swedish pads today
@@beesybee8921 Its not a flash treatment, its an extended release treatment. If you want a flash treatment and see a mite drop immediately, you need to use OA Vaporization.
Outside temperature does not matter once they are in the hive. I do add strips as they get chewed away, but it could be done different ways depending on how you incorporate this into you strategy. Just consider this as releasing OA in the hive as they chew them away. If you are integrating vapor or another treatment this can be used to get the mites they are under cappings as the bees hatch out.
Would this be the same "recipe ratio" for Swedish sponges? If not, what would that recipe ratio bee? Also read some of Randy's site on mixing and it was suggested at one point to add water to the OA first then the glycerine - not sure if that is "old" info or not.
Water is helpful with the chipboard strips because it helps it soak in.. then it evaporates. The amount of OA that a sponge holds is more than a chipoard. I have not put out a video yet on sponges .. so I would continue to recommend to use Randy's recipe.
This was really good thank you so much for doing it. can u do me a favor can u calculate what I need I have 50 hives they are double deep brood chambers, so that would be 4 per hive. what should I use Thanks and have a blessed week this is what I calculated can you check to see if I am right. 200 strips 4 per hive of 2 deeps, I got 2000-gram oa 2000 ml gly, 1000ml of water. that is 2 parts 2 parts and 1 part thaks again
Sounds about right. You would need to add more strips to the box though to get the same amount of Oxalic Acid into the hive. Think of the strip as a sponge holding the OA, and the amount needed in the hive to be effective is about two-3 strips per deep, so maybe you would need 4 shorter strips.
How often do you replace these strips or is it a simple matter of replacing after the bees have destroyed them? Do you leave them in year round? I know there is no worry about developing resistance, I recall Jennifer Berry saying mites will develop resistance to OA like a cockroach will develop resistance to a hammer.
Great video! Thank you. I have one question: How many of the strips will you put in the hive? I have a Layens 20 frame hive, so trying to figure this out...
Just out of curiosity, why do you add the water to the mix? I noticed Randy doesn't really use water anymore in his formulations. Do you find with the thick chipboard it needs to be thinner to absorb properly?
The water thins the solution so it goes into the chipboard, then it evaporates out. You are correct. In the Swedish sponges Randy uses, you don't really need the water to get it to soak into the sponge before it starts to cool.
@@chuckshoneybees I made a bunch of these, unfort my bees chew them out really fast.. Usually a week into it and there is a pile off confetti at the bottom of the hive. Do you have similar results? The thought of having to make new every 2 weeks to a month, doesn't seem fun
@@brianchrisman4331 The chewing action is part of the process of spreading the OA throughout the hive. Each hive does chew them differently. The goal is to have the slow release of the OA to cross the span of the hatching brood to get at the mites under the brood cappings. So even if you have hives that can chew them out that fast, you have still achieved the goal of extended release of the OA.
@@chuckshoneybees I had thought Randy said in one of his reports that the chewing and dragging through the hive didn't have the effect, he thought it would
@@brianchrisman4331 Randy prefers the OA Swedish sponges due to the ease of use throwing them between brood boxes, I use both, but still think the strips between the frames work well and also work with smaller nucs and single deeps.
The OA should stay in the strips, but I am sure that there is some evaporation. But when they dry, if they look white dusty with crystals, that is what I get.
You should be fine, but it is something to monitor. I am not a chemist, so I cannot say how long it takes for the reaction to change the compounds, but a few seconds is probably ok.
Hey Chuck, first question where would get "Glycerin". BTW I worked at NARF Jax back in the early 70's. Grew up on Ortega Farm Blvd. My Dad was a GySgt AE type.
Not an exact science, its about keeping OA in the hive. If the bees remove them quickly you should replace them, if they have been propolized over, you should replace them.
I'm just a few minutes in, so maybe you answer this later - but what do you mean "between the hives"? Do you mean between the deeps? Or between the frames? Or actually between the HIVES - assuming of you have multiple hives?
Ye, I know each strip should have 10 g OA , but I meant just check the weight of a few strips. So you know, that there are no strips, which weigh 14 or 6 g. To know strips are soaked equally. Have you done it?@@chuckshoneybees
Thanks for the video. I made the strips, but mine turned out very grainy. You keep talking about full solution. Are you actually getting all of the OA completely dissolved?
I figured it out. It turns out the problem was my thermometer. I had been using an analog candy thermometer. Today I used a digital meat thermometer. Obviously, I was getting nowhere near 160° the first time around - Even though the thermometer said I was. With the meat thermometer, I was able to keep the solution on the stove much longer, and the solution went totally clear at around 140°. With the benefit of experience, I would say this recipe can be made without a thermometer, as you did. Just heat the ingredients slowly until you get a clear solution - just like you said.
To be honest I had to go back an look at his latest recommendations. As I have been working with him so long things have changed. My recipe has evolved to be just a bit different, but both will work just fine. But you are correct on his current article he recommends 500g OA and 500g Glycerin (400ml) .. but Randy is also recommending this recipe be used on sponges, and I am recommending chipboard.. so this is where we diverge. The extra glycerin is needed in the chipboard to keep it "wet" but not for a sponge. Give either a try. the purpose of this content is to get beekeepers helping their bees.
Yes, I had the same question about the ratio. Glad I looked through the comments. The new Zelanders do 40 OA to 60 Glycerin. Similar to your ratio. Also, with chipboard.
![Extended Release Oxalic Acid [Expert How-To]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/futzS7w5Uy4/mqdefault.jpg)
![Extended Release Oxalic Acid [Expert How-To]](/img/tr.png)
Great demonstration! Really enjoyed watching too! I'll be giving this a go!! Thanks!!
Glad you found it useful Jason.
Really great presentation! I just made my first batch. It’s my first year and I now have nine hives.
Good luck!
I added these to my 4 hives, thanks for posting.
It works. Thanks for the comment.
Thanks for the thorough demonstration. Will give it a try. 🙏
Hope you like it!
I am glad to have found your channel. 2nd year beek. Absolutely and completely enjoying the learning journey. It’s true to that the second year is where things get fun. I already have the strips cut, will make solution tomorrow. I have one hive with 6 mites from the wash another with 8. On hives with numbers like that can I put 6 strips or stick with 2 per box. I’m running double deeps. My swarms that were caught have almost none, 1-3. We use the Dawn soap wash. I was shocked that 1 hive I split from last year had 0 mites in the wash. That shocked me. But I was glad. With appreciation and gratitude 🐝
You could put 6 strips per box, but I think that is overkill if you did the formula like I described. I don't think it will make it last longer, only more oxalic in the hive until they chew them away. But if you do put 6 per hive, I don't think you are going to hurt anything either. Welcome to the channel.
Chuck, how long can you keep the strips in the freezer, or refrigerator, and still be effective?
Great video Chuck, a lot of good information. Also thank you for jumping on the chat, it was great to have you on, it is always nice to have another beekeeper's view point on how to do a different technique in beekeeping.
Any time! I enjoyed the chat too.
Great job in explaining the process.
Can't wait to get my bee colonies going. Awesome
Good work. The ladies look great! Blessings & thanks for sharing.
Watching from Scotland, the best tip I've seen regarding using oxalic acid. Cheers.
Thank you very much!
Came here from Kamon Reynolds - Tennessee's Bees Gentle Treatments vs Hard Treatments - Nuc Follow Along Ep. 12 - 8/26/24 Comments
Welcome
Been watching your channel for around 6 months, completing my first season of having a colony this spring with a bustling double deep coming thru winter and already filling the better part of two supers. Im in the same USDA zone but on other coast. I am really finding my timeline to sync up with yours and its been very helpful.
I treated for mites last November with formic pro after testing 7%. Treatment bringing it down to just over 2% if memory serves me. Fast forward to early Feb (the 10th specifically) when I took a first peak in for '24 after noticing them pick up in energy and again performing a mite wash and recording 2.5%
Understanding OAE is best done proactively while numbers are relatively low I wanted to get it made up and on the hive quick. Using a 1:1 acid to glycerin ratio of 120g total weight impregnated on 66 sq in 2mm chipboard. My chipboard was 11.5x11.5in from Michaels so I couldn't cut it into the long strips as shown so rather placed the chipboard "pads" staggered between the two brood boxs. That was on Feb 22nd.
So anyway its been a month since the 2.5% reading and three weeks since application of OAE. I know the full window of time for maximum effectiveness was nearly two months (...I think)
Two questions if you can offer your expertise. 1. Do you see any problem that the chipboard is placed sandwiched bettween the brood boxes vs hung down over frames, with a correspondingly lower sq in./weight dosage. 2. Even in the only three weeks since applying the OAE is it reasonable to expect any efficacy on the mites? I usually do mite washes on the monthly, so was planning on one in the next day or so anyways. I guess Ill see and report back if you dont mind...? Kinda as a note to myself since I cant seem to keep a written record lol./
Thank you for reading my questions and posting your findings there in 9b!!!
Cheers Chuck!
Thanks for the detail and long comment. There can still be efficacy between the brood boxes, and Randy Oliver chooses this method with his OA Sponges. But the sponges hold much more OA per square centimeter. So to answer your questions, I think between the frames is better for chipboard, and sponges work good between double brood chambers. I am sure you will get some good results with your method, but perhaps not optimal.
Well the results are in, my mite levels rose to 3.8% ☹️
So I’m wondering what my next move should be… kicking around the options of adding some OAE in sponge form and removing the chipboard, doing a OA dribble, or if i wanna pull out the big guns give the hive a round of formic pro.
I suppose doing nothing is also an option, and wait to see if the chipboard “pads” will become more effective in time but that seems like a gamble.
On a happier note though my hive is eagerly putting away the nectar and drawing out new comb even quicker than when i was feeding them!
Thanks for the video. BTW, I use an infrared thermometer to watch the temperature. Getting two cheap ones enables me to verify they are reading the same and working properly. You provided very useful guidance, thanks again.
IR Cameras are a great tool, especially up north. You can see the cluster size without cracking the lid. Thanks for the feedback and comment.
Great job showing and teaching your process. I even learned some chemistry🤩
Awesome! Thank you for the feedback.
Just Subbed !
Watched Randy Oliver for a while.
Swedish Sponges can be hard to source here in Scotland 🏴 so seeing you use Chip Board is a great alternative. Easy to get. . . Sweet.
About to do my Autumn Oxalic Acid Dribble any day now (60ml per Brood Box : 5ml per Seam of Bees.)
Want to try Extended Release for December to Spring coverage. Both my Bees and Me can have Snowy Winters. So we both stay in the Box and Home more. 🤭
🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝
Happy Beekeeping 2023
🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝
Good luck. I think Chipboard is actually better for the hobbiest/sideliener as they can go in both single deeps and double deeps, and nucs. The sponges are only effective in between double deeps.
Hi Chuck. I enjoy listening to your presentations. It is my 5th time using your recipe for the extended Oxalic Acid treatment by means of strips and I had no problems until the last time (which it was yesterday) I experienced massive bearding, after 2-3 hours of application , I removed the strips but the next day I had to deal with total colony collapse in two of my hives which came out of this Spring split and they were doing very well. I did not change anything from the recipe. I will appreciate your feed back, thank you in advance.
I don't know what to tell you, as I have never had this happen to me. Maybe something was off. My only recommendation would be to start over. OA is not a very harsh acid, it should not cause bearding like a formic application.
Best explanation I've heard. Thanks.
Glad it was helpful!
Informative video. The chipboard strips will also work for top bar and Layens hives. I use a combination of sponges on the hive floor and suspended shop towel strips hung from the top bars. I’m going to switch to chip board for easier handling.
I used to hang the shop towels between the bars too, But they just are a bit to flimsy to "push down" the chipboard of the right thickness ..is much better in my experience. Give it a try and let me know what you think.
Great detail on this video today! Nice work again. K
Glad you liked it! And thanks for the feedback.
Nice work Chuck, Video is great for educating and building connection.
Glad you enjoyed it, and thank you for the comment.
Chuck I don’t see on Randy website that he use water .
Place 500g OA dihydrate into a stainless steel pan, then add 500g (400 mL) vegetable glycerin (add the glycerin second in order to avoid splashing of the solution).
Place the pan over a low/medium heat (preferably using a double boiler), and heat the ingredients while closely monitoring the temperature, not to exceed 160°F (the acid crystals will dissolve at as low as 110°F, and start to bubble if the temperature exceeds 170°F).
Occasionally stir gently until the acid crystals are completely dissolved and the solution is completely clear. At that point, remove the pan from heat.
@@chuckshoneybees
Randy does not have to use water in his sponge formula, in earlier articles where he was testing with other media he uses water. The water is ONLY to help get the mixture into a solution that will absorb into the media. The water evaporates away leaving only the Oxalic Acid and Glycerin in the chipboard.
Thanks for an idea for a different substrate or delivery medium. Fortunately, I'm in New York where the extended release of oxalic acid is approved in our hives.
Great news, give it a try and let me know how it goes or if you have any questions.
Awesome videos. Thanks alot for the time and effort.
Glad you like them!
Wow Chuck.
I’m retired UPS Airline pilot.
Glad to meet you.
I do the embossing prior to cutting them to length.
Thanks ....Good info. N.E. Fl. BEEK
Thanks for watching!
Chuck, I wanted to pass on a suggestion. I saw how you folded the strips across a frame. I am using an embossing tool I bought from Michaels. They may have them at Hobby Lobby also. It is in the section for making your own greeting cards. I find the center vertically and use the square as you did to make the strips even lengths. I clamp the square down and run the embossing tool on each side to make a crease to bend the chipboard. This will make the strips easier to fold across the frame. I cut my strips as you did lengthwise. Hope this will help.
Great improvement!
Great information, thanks.
Glad it was helpful!
I wonder, by exposing the mites to OA over extended time if we are creating the opportunity for them to build a resistance to OA. They seem to have built a resistance to so many other extended release treatments. Then we would lose OA vaporization as an effective tool. Would like to hear others thoughts about that.
There has not been any documentation of resistance to Oxalic Acid .. that I have found anyway, but a successful IPM strategy is important. Thanks for the comment.
@@chuckshoneybees I should have been clearer in my statement. OA vaporization has been an effective treatment for many years. One reason is, it stays in the hive a very short time. The mites do not have the opportunity to build a resistance. If we start leaving OA extended release in hives for a long time, it seems the mites we eventually have the opportunity to build a resistance like they have so many other extended release products. My concern is if we start using extended release OA we may be setting ourselves up to eventually lose OA vaporization as an effective tool because we created the opportunity with extended release for the mites to build resistance.
@@chuckshoneybeesregarding resistance to OA: The threshold for treatment has been lowered from 30/300 to 3/300 in the time that I've been keeping bees. Most don't even bother to test anymore. The frequency of treatment (with OA) has gone from once in the fall to almost constantly in the same period. For beekeepers to keep saying they don't see "documentation" of resistance when it's right in front of their faces is concerning. Finally, is the method in this video legal? I watched it months ago, but don't remember if that question was asked/answered.
My mistake we watch the video and you did say how many strips
Hey Chuck, got a couple questions on your formula/ratios.
1. I don’t see where Randy says he uses any water in his process, what is your reasoning for it and does it make a huge difference?
2. I was rereading is info and he states he’s doing a 50/50 ratio by weight, but you say on the glycerin to use ml, why so?
I’ve done the maximizer pads before and personally think the folded chipboard your showing makes a bit more since, do you think a 50/50 ratio by weight would be a good formula to follow for them? I would be making them in batches of 50 at a time.
Randy used water for the chipboard strips, when he was testing with them, he no longer uses chipboard to my knowledge. The water makes the solution "thinner" so it goes into the cardboard, it evaporates off so it is only part of the solution process to get the OA into the chipboard. The weight and volume of these ingredients is so close I use volume for simplicity for liquids. I think I mention this somewhere.
Grazie per questo bellissimo video!
La soluzione va sciolta a 70 gradi fahrenheit?
sorry I have another question
In Italy I can't find 50 pt chipboard, how can I solve this problem?
Just watched another Randy Oliver presentation and he is high on OA for sure. Will you share your mite counts?
I post videos of my mite checks all the time. My last few mite checks were between 0-3 mites. So they were looking good last round.
thank you
You're welcome, hope it helps, please let me know what you think.
Didn't mention in the video how many strips were in the bag. How many strips do you put in the bag so that the solution isn't too much or too little
Hi Chuck,
I tried using chipboards for the mites. Unfortunately the mites don't fall out and the chipboard doesn't have a sour taste to it. On the other hand when I used shop towels the mites fell out and it was pretty sour. Any tips on what I could change or do differently to make the chipboard work? Thanks
Not sure what to tell you if you are getting the recommended number of grams of OA into each strip, that is the process. You could switch to Swedish sponges if you are using double deeps.
Thanks
Welcome
Great and very clear! Just a question, the actual randy oliver article suggest 1:1 oa/glycerin. He doesn't user water (and warn about humidity) and use weight not weight/volume. Does randy get new data and update his article? Or are you up to date with him ? So i am a bit confused on what recipe to follow.
Randy has iterated over time, and he now uses sponges. You don't need water to use the sponges, but to get the solution into the cardboard you do need to use water, but it evaporates anyway, so its just about the solution. The only important number is the amount of OA you are putting in the hive. The glycerin and water are just to get the OA into a solution to hold in the substrate.
Hi Chuck. I just started beekeeping. I have found your channel to be the best out there, especially since I live NE of Orlando. Do you used other mite treatments as well, or just the OA? Thank you for all of the time you spend helping all of us learn!
Thanks for joining the conversation! I only currently use OA as it is been the most effective organic treatment I have found. Some disagree with this, but I have not read or heard any issues with resistance to an organic acid's mode of action over time with Varroa Destructor.
Thank you for your response!@@chuckshoneybees
Chuck. I only use OAV for mite control, but am ordering these ingredients. Do you use any other treatments, and if not, how do these control them?
I use OAV as a spot treatment if a hive or nuc gets too high.. these Strips keep OA in the hive over a period of time, and if you keep up with it and not let them get too old it keeps the mites down.
Couple of questions 1. They are still damp when you hang them in the hive? 2. Shelf life after soaked? Thanks, glenn
I don't have a shelf life number based on any science, but I have stored them in a bag in the refrigerator over a year personally. The dampness depends on the temperature, but typically at normal temperatures (if you got the glycerin/water/OA ratios right, they will be dry and a bit crusty once the water evaporates.
Would an induction heater also be a good choice for heating/melting wax that is to be rolled on frames to give additional wax?
if you can control the heat at lower temps ..sure!
Hello and thank you for sharing your knowledge with us. I had two questions; a hive with 10 frames, buy as many strips as you want, with these reports you have here in the video? And to what temperature is the acidoxalic glycerin mixture heated?
as low a temperature as you can to get it into solution. Randy Oliver has a maximum temperature of !40-170 if I recall, but I am doing that from memory. I don't measure, I just slow heat it until the OA goes into solution and it never overheats that way.
Want to see your input in combination of strips and Swedish pads what I am trying to do
I like the Swedish pads in between double deeps.
@@chuckshoneybeesI place the board into the hives yesterday I see a lot of shavings coming out like you mentioned, is the dosage too small for 10 g per strip ? I don’t see any of the fallen mites yet, will do the Swedish pads today
@@beesybee8921 Its not a flash treatment, its an extended release treatment. If you want a flash treatment and see a mite drop immediately, you need to use OA Vaporization.
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Excellent video...Does outside temperature matter? Also once the bees chew the strips do you put more strips in? I did not catch it if you said it..TY
Outside temperature does not matter once they are in the hive. I do add strips as they get chewed away, but it could be done different ways depending on how you incorporate this into you strategy. Just consider this as releasing OA in the hive as they chew them away. If you are integrating vapor or another treatment this can be used to get the mites they are under cappings as the bees hatch out.
@@chuckshoneybees TY
How often do you treat this way? Probably implementing to my own hives. Thanks!
Constantly through out the year based on mite counts I increase or decrease the number of strips in each deep between 2-4.
Would this be the same "recipe ratio" for Swedish sponges? If not, what would that recipe ratio bee? Also read some of Randy's site on mixing and it was suggested at one point to add water to the OA first then the glycerine - not sure if that is "old" info or not.
Water is helpful with the chipboard strips because it helps it soak in.. then it evaporates. The amount of OA that a sponge holds is more than a chipoard. I have not put out a video yet on sponges .. so I would continue to recommend to use Randy's recipe.
This was really good thank you so much for doing it. can u do me a favor can u calculate what I need I have 50 hives they are double deep brood chambers, so that would be 4 per hive. what should I use Thanks and have a blessed week this is what I calculated can you check to see if I am right. 200 strips 4 per hive of 2 deeps, I got 2000-gram oa 2000 ml gly, 1000ml of water. that is 2 parts 2 parts and 1 part thaks again
Sounds about right, as my recipe makes 45 .. multiply everything by a little more than 4.
If you were using medium brood boxes rather than deeps, would you use an 11 inch strip rather than 17 inch?
Sounds about right. You would need to add more strips to the box though to get the same amount of Oxalic Acid into the hive. Think of the strip as a sponge holding the OA, and the amount needed in the hive to be effective is about two-3 strips per deep, so maybe you would need 4 shorter strips.
What is the purpose of the water? All other solutions/recipes I've seen only had 1:1 OA & glycerin.
The water helps take the solution into the chipboard, it then evaporates and is not part of the strip while it is in the hive.
How often do you replace these strips or is it a simple matter of replacing after the bees have destroyed them? Do you leave them in year round? I know there is no worry about developing resistance, I recall Jennifer Berry saying mites will develop resistance to OA like a cockroach will develop resistance to a hammer.
Every 3-6 weeks is usually the period. The bees will either chew them or propolize them, and then you can replace them.
I don’t have that many hives can I cut that mixture in half.?
The ratios need to be the same, but the volume can be cut just like any recipe in the kitchen.
Great video! Thank you. I have one question: How many of the strips will you put in the hive? I have a Layens 20 frame hive, so trying to figure this out...
1-2 per 10 frames is about right. Use your mite checks as a guide.
Just out of curiosity, why do you add the water to the mix? I noticed Randy doesn't really use water anymore in his formulations. Do you find with the thick chipboard it needs to be thinner to absorb properly?
The water thins the solution so it goes into the chipboard, then it evaporates out. You are correct. In the Swedish sponges Randy uses, you don't really need the water to get it to soak into the sponge before it starts to cool.
@@chuckshoneybees I made a bunch of these, unfort my bees chew them out really fast.. Usually a week into it and there is a pile off confetti at the bottom of the hive. Do you have similar results? The thought of having to make new every 2 weeks to a month, doesn't seem fun
@@brianchrisman4331 The chewing action is part of the process of spreading the OA throughout the hive. Each hive does chew them differently. The goal is to have the slow release of the OA to cross the span of the hatching brood to get at the mites under the brood cappings. So even if you have hives that can chew them out that fast, you have still achieved the goal of extended release of the OA.
@@chuckshoneybees I had thought Randy said in one of his reports that the chewing and dragging through the hive didn't have the effect, he thought it would
@@brianchrisman4331 Randy prefers the OA Swedish sponges due to the ease of use throwing them between brood boxes, I use both, but still think the strips between the frames work well and also work with smaller nucs and single deeps.
Chuck, do you dry your strips before installing in the hive, and how often do you change out the strips?
No need to dry them out. I only replace them when they either disintegrate in the hive, mite counts start rising.
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Thanks for the comment.
Chuck, 24 hours later does some of the OA come out of solution once the chipboard absorbs all it can and it cools down?
The OA should stay in the strips, but I am sure that there is some evaporation. But when they dry, if they look white dusty with crystals, that is what I get.
Hi Chuck, I just made my second batch of this, but this time, I went over 170 degrees 3x to 173 degrees for a fews seconds...is this bad?
You should be fine, but it is something to monitor. I am not a chemist, so I cannot say how long it takes for the reaction to change the compounds, but a few seconds is probably ok.
Hey Chuck, first question where would get "Glycerin". BTW I worked at NARF Jax back in the early 70's. Grew up on Ortega Farm Blvd. My Dad was a GySgt AE type.
Lots of options, you can find some smaller volume options at the drug store, but here is a version on Amazon. a.co/d/aFaGZwZ. Good to meet you!
Can you use OR water to mix OA? And how much baking soda to water?
I am not sure what OR water is. A few tablespoons of baking soda in the neutralizing bowl. Not a precise measurement for that.
How many days to change the strip?
Not an exact science, its about keeping OA in the hive. If the bees remove them quickly you should replace them, if they have been propolized over, you should replace them.
I'm just a few minutes in, so maybe you answer this later - but what do you mean "between the hives"? Do you mean between the deeps? Or between the frames? Or actually between the HIVES - assuming of you have multiple hives?
Maybe I mispoke, but the extended release strips go between the frames, the sponges that randy oliver uses goes between double deeps.
Great video!! How do you know the strips are working? Do you see dead varroa mites in sticky boards or do you test?
Mite checks with an alcohol wash .. most all my results are < 1%
How long are you leaving them in, and are you doing mite checks while they are in as well or just prior to and after you remove them?
The bees remove them. I do mite checks all the time to keep an eye on any issues.
Very cool. Why not build a rear bicycle rack that's 14 inches wide and about 4 feet long. Be blessed.
oops
Nice video. What about weight the strips (after they are soaked up) ?
Glad you enjoyed it, not sure what you mean, if you divide the amount of OA used by the number of strips, that gives you the amount of OA per strip.
Ye, I know each strip should have 10 g OA , but I meant just check the weight of a few strips. So you know, that there are no strips, which weigh 14 or 6 g. To know strips are soaked equally. Have you done it?@@chuckshoneybees
No I have not weighed individual strips as you are suggesting.@@marekbily8677
@@chuckshoneybees Thanks for reply
Have you heard about the extended release exemption being revoked by the EPA last week?
Haven't heard. Had the bee inspector here this week. No mention of it either.
Thanks for the video. I made the strips, but mine turned out very grainy.
You keep talking about full solution. Are you actually getting all of the OA completely dissolved?
Yes all of the OA is fully dissolved in the Glycerin/Water solution when I pour it over the chipboard strips.
I figured it out. It turns out the problem was my thermometer. I had been using an analog candy thermometer. Today I used a digital meat thermometer. Obviously, I was getting nowhere near 160° the first time around - Even though the thermometer said I was. With the meat thermometer, I was able to keep the solution on the stove much longer, and the solution went totally clear at around 140°.
With the benefit of experience, I would say this recipe can be made without a thermometer, as you did. Just heat the ingredients slowly until you get a clear solution - just like you said.
Glad you figured it out! I a sure the mites won't be so happy though :)
How long could these be stored? Could it be vacuum sealed for storage? I only have six hives.
Freezer probably indefinitely if you remove the air. I have stored them for over a year personally.
@@chuckshoneybees thank you !
You are most welcome.
Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn’t R.O use a 1:1 by weight recipe?
To be honest I had to go back an look at his latest recommendations. As I have been working with him so long things have changed. My recipe has evolved to be just a bit different, but both will work just fine. But you are correct on his current article he recommends 500g OA and 500g Glycerin (400ml) .. but Randy is also recommending this recipe be used on sponges, and I am recommending chipboard.. so this is where we diverge. The extra glycerin is needed in the chipboard to keep it "wet" but not for a sponge. Give either a try. the purpose of this content is to get beekeepers helping their bees.
Yes, I had the same question about the ratio. Glad I looked through the comments. The new Zelanders do 40 OA to 60 Glycerin. Similar to your ratio. Also, with chipboard.
Do you sell these? I would love to buy some from you. I am local. Let me know prerty please.
I don't sell them individually, if you are buying bees or nucs from me, there are usually some in the hives.
@@chuckshoneybees oh very good to know, thank you!!
Can you sell strips?
Locally perhaps
Thank you ,going to try this ! New sub.was AD f14s
Thanks for the sub!
Sorry wrong channel, was looking at reallybig monkey 1 invention
That is funny.