Ask Dave: Does Classical Music Have A Future? (And If So, What Is It?)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 พ.ค. 2022
- You asked, and so I'm going to give it my best shot. The future of classical music is a popular topic, usually asked under the assumption that everything is terrible. However, as I hope to show, rumors of the coming classical music apocalypse may be somewhat exaggerated.
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Speaking as a current music student at an American music school, I might add something to your performing artists discussion - something that I find striking now that I'm pursuing a second degree in a STEM field. Oftentimes, at least for the people in this musical milieu I occupy, the conceptualization of the audience is different than anything like your channel viewers, or the average paying crowd for a concert. The audience these people are thinking about is their friends, teachers, and potential future collaborators. In essence, they are not so interested in impressing the public audience, they are interested in impressing each other (the word "impressing" here could connote many things - learning from each other, supporting each other, "competing" with each other, etc.). It's simple to see why this happens: if these people want to get ahead, they get the idea in their minds that the mass audience is downstream of their success, not upstream.
This system is rife in academia, but it also leaks into the professional classical music world, and it results in things like: flavor-of-the-month composers, commissions, and new repertoire; young conductors who have "transcendental vision" but no experience in performance tradition and musical expertise (one Leopold Stokowski was enough); opera houses with crazy stagings that nobody likes; or composers who fabricate underlying "narratives" for their music in lieu of rigorous compositional craftsmanship and virtuosity. They don't care that, for instance, their Vienna State Opera production plays to a hall full of empty seats. All they know is that they've completed their stage directing gig, and more importantly, somebody who they want to work with down the line was impressed with their "creative vision" on this show.
Music schools are supposed to be the loudest supporters for classical music, but it seems like they are the biggest obstacle in the way....
I feel you. I was a singer. It was much the same. I noticed the singers who sang for singers and other musicians didnt do as well as those of us who 'sold out' and tried to create an audience consisting of the public. You could be respected by your peers and starve, or be an entertainer and make a living, and be considered "less than" . Im glad I'm not a music student now. 30 years ago they were predicting the end or that music was already dead. I always had a hard time admitting I studied music except with other musicians. It would have been nice if fellow students supported eachother for the sake of music. They really don't. My emotional state was so precarious that faint praise from a student, even one less talented would plunge me into an existential crises. The only way to survive is to develop a way of tuning it out , the good and the bad, and concentrate on my own relationship with music. I NEED IT, and if others want to listen, thats fine. If they like it, thats gravy. I must do no matter what. Its becomes a lonely endeavor. Then trick is staying sensitive to the music while developing the skin of a rhinoceros.
There are actually young people who promote classical music to fellow young people. TwoSetViolin, for example, has built an enormous fanbase by making comedic content about classical music on social media. Their channel is VERY different from yours, but hey, it's about classical music. They've even collaborated with well-known soloists (mostly violinists like Maxim Vengerov and Hilary Hahn) and institutions like the Menuhin Competition and the Curtis Institute of Music. Of course, they're not a record label, and I agree with your comments regarding the marketing bias towards young people. Some attention needs to be paid towards a younger demographic in order to cultivate an appreciation for this art form, but young people should not be the meat and potatoes of this industry. Young people will do what young people do, so the industry shouldn't worry about them. Instead, if the industry is to expand its consumer base, it really needs to take the older demographic seriously.
I was hooked when they played the Pachelbel Canon in D on a rubber chicken, and that Hillary Hahn is a great sport as well as a virtuoso.
@@anthonycook6213 They did the same thing with O Fortuna. :D Hahn is just amazing. I love how they become fanboys even though they'd collaborated with her numerous times already.
Classical music has a global audience, which gives me a lot of hope for the future. Even if Europe and North America disappeared, the music would not. Heck, even Japan alone would preserve a great appreciation for this music.
North america only?
You do know that the whole of américa (south and central) has european ascendency and is part of the western world and culture, meaning classical music is played all over south américa too (specially argentina, Uruguay and chile)
It's not just North américa. It's all américa.
Comment 1: Over my decades in concert presentation, things have changed radically. Time was when we could literally not get a return phone call from some of the more prestigious artist managers, or when they acted like they were doing us a favor by deigning to provide (i.e., sell) us one of their artists. The artists, for their part, were usually fine, but could be demanding. Now, our manager partners are as helpful and cooperative as can be. And the artists could not be more cheerful and grateful to play for our audience. We were really on a roll prior to the pandemic, able to sustain our series mostly on ticket revenue (and these are affordable tickets). We even had sellouts, including Peter Serkin, a year prior to his death, doing the Goldbergs. (Digression: When he arrived the morning of the concert, my wife, who acts as concert producer, asked Peter whether he had any special food requests, expecting him to request something fancy or vegan or whatever. His request: a ham sandwich.) I have to say, I did notice an average of about 2.87 more ventilators/walkers/wheelchairs per concert -- but these folks turned out big time nonetheless. Will we be able to regain the momentum lost to the shutdown? Time will tell. But the music itself has never been better. I share your optimism, even if somewhat cautiously.
Very much agree - and in a broader sense, this approach is necessary to remain content and relevant in society.
Must admit these videos kept me going over the past two years esp the review vids. It's like a safe world I could reach out to so that I could understand more of the musical world and as I love geography all the different orchestras. I consume classical music only on Radio, TH-cam and especially a streaming service that I'm able to bluetooth to a top of the range Bose `lantern` as I call it! Always thought there was a barrier to listening to Bach until I found the violin concertos and your suggestion of Trevor Pinnock. Same with Haydn and Bernstein and your Dave's Faves Paris symphonies.
Working and commuting for 50 hours a week it's simply impossible to find the time to dedicate (and that's what you must do) to getting to know anything other than some of my faves and delving a bit deeper. However, I will keep on listening!
Whatever works for you is fine. That's the point--you decide.
This is the kind of historical detail we need about the history of music distribution. It's a topic I've been researching, so this was helpful.
I believe the future for classical in terms of audience attendance of Live concerts is well and truly secure. I say this because there is nothing that compare to watching musicians Live on stage performing professionally on their chosen musical instruments. I am fortunate to being the Solo Timpanist in my Community Orchestra in Australia and I am taken aback at the Huge audience attendance at our concerts
Thanks,David for this important TH-cam video. Keep up the good work !
I have been dipping in and out of online forums, and videos on this channel for a couple of years now. I'm in my mid-twenties, and a PhD student in the UK, not a musicologist but rather a psychologist! The campus has an arts centre, with dance and music and film et cetera had number of orchestras, including the RPO, and the Halle. So I dipped my toes in, and I love what I heard over the last few years. Then I started gathering recordings. But I don't have CDs, as many of you might, but rather, a library of albums from Apple music. The search function can sometimes be terrible,- but with Apple having bought Primephonic,- that should be addressed soon. I guess my point is many of us love classical music if we can get exposed, and if it be given to us in a format that we prefer. Companies are doing just that, so I'm optimistic. I am young and perhaps overeducated, but something in this appeals to me, so I don't think age or gender etc are really that important! Thank you for your time Mr Hurwitz.
Thanks for adding your input. It's very interesting and, I think, useful.
Great presentation, David. I would love to hear what you have to say about the increasingly "museum" nature of the concert halls and opera houses: we have new compositions written by living composers, but not to the intensely popular degree of the "latest and hottest from the pen of.... Beethoven, Brahms, Wagner, Verdi, name your member of the musical pantheon". It seems like hearing a mid 20th Century piece by Britten, or Copland, or whoever is still considered "modern music" and most arts organization, with a few notable exceptions, still overwhelmingly program pieces from the 19th century and earlier. But drama, dance, visual arts all have moved into what is "new" - which I realize does not make it good, necessarily. I love the standard war horse repertoire, and always will, but am sad that we seem to attend concerts of with the music of dead folks... however great it may be. I know this is not a new question. Thanks for all you do, David!
Whats sad about it?
Who would want the music of Mozart Bach and Beethoven to dissappear?
Don't people still watch old films? Go to museums to see 17 18 and 19 century paintings? Read old classic books? Visit milenary european cities?
Why should music be any different? Why should it's history be forgotten and loathed?
Besides, there is lots of new music being composed and played around the whole world.
Alma Deutscher writes beautiful original music and she is being played by many orchestras.
What's the problema?
With the advent of the iPod and iPhone, the quantity of classical music one can physically consume is exponentially greater as well.
This video should be the 'Welcome to the arts in America'. I am a visual artist and you have to expect a general lack of interest in your art and have to make the best of what you can control to try to become a success. At least musicians do not have their art judged by how it looks behind a couch - believe me, I have been there.
Another great well balanced and well thought out video. One of my favourite little quotes is “The only constant is change”.
Great video.
Hi Dave! I was expecting to have your take also in the future of creation in what concerns classical music. How do you view what actual composers are doing and how will that nourishes this great treasure? People like esa peka, arvo part etc etc...
Have a look at the "best living composer" videos.
Hi Dave. This is a great topic. As a related exploration, could you share your thoughts on the role and importance of the community orchestera wrt the future of classical music?
Someday I hope you will tell us how you really feel. But seriously, you are a breath of fresh air.
Right on. There'll always be a market for good music. It may not be huge, but there will be there.
I'm just wondering what your thoughts are on performers like Yuja Wang. A great artist, but kind of showy I think. In contrast, I recently saw an elderly Russian pianist perform the original version of Rachmaninov's Piano Concerto 4 with the Iceland Symphony and her husband conducting. The music was allowed to speak for itself. It was a wonderful concert.
Interesting analysis. I especially agree with the notion that the focus should be THAT one is exposed to classical music, and not HOW. If you've previously covered this, forgive me: I'm curious to know your thoughts on contemporary composition -- current trends, where it might be going, where it ought to, etc. Moreover, who are the contemporary composers one should have on one's radar? Thank you for this excellent channel. It is much appreciated.
Been there, done that. Have a look at the 20 top 10 living composers videos.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Thank you for pointing me to the right place.
The End is near!
Often in the past decades I gave the advice to youngsters coming out of those dreadful music factories to go for a second job inside a much bigger instution after graduating. One became a policeman, another a park ranger after serving in the military as a musician, etc., etc. The trick is indeed not to forget that classical music is still part of, and can be part of ordinary life for ever and ever. It's very much like having faith. No need for grand evangelical churches but small gatherings of people to meditate. Mindfullness is meditation after all.
This struck a chord, I came to classical music in the 70s straight from Emerson Lake and Palmer.
Same here, but it took 30 years.
@@cartologist Cool. So probably for you, like me, it's nothing to do with education or bettering yourself, it's about entertainment, like Dave said. Becuase it's great music!
After giving this topic a lot of reflection after you called my pessimism in a comment last month "nihilistic nonsense," I have come around to agree, especially since our L.A. KUSC has suddenly discovered that 'classical' music was not all written in major keys between 1725 and 1908, and that new music is not the same as it was in 1970, and is likely to let new listeners know that the art is not old-fashioned and very much alive. TH-cam is a wonderful resource for the curious, and you are a great guide for what to seek. Thank you.
Thank you for taking the time to mull it over!
oh yes he have a future for classical music......a world of greatest beauty,and a discovers....but he have a great difference betwen recording and direct concert.....if the recording is easely approchable with low coast....the concert with the years become very very expensive ( maison symphonique,montréal,orchestre symphonique de montréal)....so,with a high-end sound system,the music lover can appreciate the beautiful world of sound like classical music....and this is curious...when i talk classical music with friend or familly,the people look me like a E.T.....so is there anythigh else,more beautiful in this world that classical music,....apart my wife....?
I wonder about opera, which in the 19th century if I am not mistaken was a medium of the masses in some places. I suppose Verdi is a prime example of this. Isn't that a field whom audience has changed over the decades?
My kids hear anything they like anywhere, including post-minimalist new music in a movie score, they identify it on the fly with Spotify, and I was surprised at how much they have learned without my input.
Classical music has been very successful in resisting change. Its always been kind of a "museum" art form. Its the future of composition Im not certain about. There has been a shift back to melodic, old fashioned music. Catchy tunes rather than innovations. My feeling is there will always be a future for performances of the old chesnuts. Not so sure there is and future for composition, and with no real collectable format, not sure about the future of classical recordings. Videos on youtube is the future. The future is now.
It’s a not infrequent complaint to hear at the symphony that the younger generations aren’t consigning parts of their portfolios over to the symphony like their older counterparts used to, and my fellow youths making poverty wages at this venerable institution give each other side-eye glances whenever they do. Perhaps besides the point. But there is so much disconnect between the superficial desire to attract younger folks-or anyone new to classical music-and an actual ability and willingness to connect, which I think stems, in part, from this attitude you mentioned that people should just prostrate themselves and their bank accounts before the altar of classical music.
I, and many others, came to classical music through film scores or simply having the radio playing in the background. Often, when watching a film, someone might say 'I didn't like the film but I liked the score.' They thought the music had been composed directly for the film and didn't know that it had been composed 100-200 years previously. Incidentally, I still don't think that music is nothing but entertainment, even if many composers would say it is. Sorry, Dave! T. S Eliot did say, though, the poetry is a very superior form of entertainment, so maybe you have a point there after all.
The model of "The Met beaming itself into your local theatre" is a threat to many established local institutions. Consider that one can now watch free university lectures from MIT, and many other institutions by gifted presenters - why would one bother with attending a local class given by a disengaged academic with an obligatory teaching requirement.
This is why global music markets presented by Spotify etc still result in some artists siphoning off all the attention and revenue from the others, except it's now on a biggers cale.
For creators, unless you're cultivating a local audience with direct interactions rather than sitting behind a proscenium arch and waiting for the masses, then you will suffer the same economic pressures as every other creator competing in a global market.
Comment 2: I recall an episode of a favorite podcast of mine where the host interviewed a guy who had written an article or book on how a tiny cabal of influential publishers, book dealers and other villains were determining what you could read and what you couldn't. Scary! The host replied that he could go on Amazon and have near-immediate access to untold thousands of titles on the most obscure and arcane subjects or with the tiniest audience, so what the hell are you talking about? The guest fumed and sputtered, but had no good response. I fell like the host when I sit down with my streaming toys to enjoy whatever weird stuff this crazy music maven on TH-cam has just dug up. Nirvana!
Love your comments shortly after 10 minutes about mandatory civics classes. I'm no fan of excessively mandatory things--I mean, politically--but you're so right. If people don't know their history, how can they be one people? And I'm sure I don't have to tell you, history is something most schools simply aren't teaching. Thanks!