IBM PC/AT Model 5170: It's done! So much work, but worth it in the end.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 ก.ค. 2021
- The conclusion to the IBM PC/AT Model 5170 video series. I finally attack the old power supply and case and fully assemble the machine. Watch to see how it comes together!
Part 1: • IBM PC/AT Model 5170: ...
Part 2: • IBM PC/AT Model 5170: ...
Part 3: This part
Adding 256k to the IBM EGA card:
• Experiment: Can you up...
Hardcard Plus 20 Failure Analysis:
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--- Video Links
Sams Computer Facts for the IBM 5170 and power supply:
vtda.org/books/Computing/Hardw...
Using IDE hard drives on 286 machines with a BIOS upgrade:
• I got my 286 working w...
XT-IDE with a network card:
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ISA/PCI BIOS Post code card:
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I appreciate that this video's runtime is 51:50
Hmm, my phone shows 51:51... probably a rounding error lol
@@aaronjamt Mine too, to be fair a 5151 went with 5150's
@@AveragePootis True... @Adrians Digital Basement in the future, extend your outro or at least the static when working with IBM machines (assuming it's already pretty close already). Just 19/20 seconds and it would have been perfect!
Considering the other replies, it's perhaps browser/OS dependent, but on my Win10/Edge machine it indeed says 51:50 as well :) if he had padded it by 20 more seconds it would have been perfect!
@@FlyingDutchman19801 I'm using a Pixel 3a with the official YT app.
Yes, part 4 please!!!
Part 4 could be just having fun with the machine using period appropriate software.
Another part would be interesting.
Can you get the network card going as well??
Would not mind part 4 with the bios fix!
And part 5 with a bocaram card to increase the Ram
Yes, I would like to see you patching the old AT bios to get rid of 613 drive error!
PART 4!!! Bring it on!!!
I'm also looking forward to part 4!
@@alexdhall Part 4!!!!. Yes please!!!!
Would love to see the BIOS solution you came up with! And definitely not tired of seeing this computer yet
Yep
Absolutely. And people who 'might be sick of 5170 Videos' they always have the choice not to watch one or the other video.
Me three!
Yes, please!
Yes very curious about the BIOS fix!
Re that PC/AT case - I'd talk to a car paint shop or metal finishers. If you're worried about painting it yourself, they might be able to strip the old paint and repaint it, and match the colour. Given the amount of paint peel in the corner, that's probably what I'd do - the machine would look brand new after.
For matching a touch-up paint -- I'd take the plastic front panel to a paint shop. Many of them have colour matching hardware, but matching the finish might be tricky.
There is a handheld laser "gun" that calculates/tell the exact color.
@@jokkea492 That's...pretty cool.
@@jokkea492 HI, yes that does basically a RGB match, i have used it a bit on chrysler and GM cars from 60's as the small duplicor spray cans does not match properly, even with the formula from old books the basic pigments are different these days
I have possible done close to 8-10 tower cases from 386-P4 buy just giving them to the local panel beater and asked to spray in a similar biege ( or GMH black for the black cases and GMH dark grey - the paint codes he uses is the same as what my 2002 car was in dark silver and black ) - he does it in a weeks turnover ( i drop of and pick up on a sat anyway )and is happy for $20 or some beer or lunch for him and the boys
I have used a sanding disk ( flap disc not sure ) to take all the metal off then use the spray cans that are combined undercoat / final paint - they look fine , not 100% oem and the y do not have the wrinkle type finish but it is very good.
The next one that i will do will be using 'rustoleam' i will be using a small brush or a piece of sponge to apply it and leave it as it as it leaves some line / brush marks - it is is really bad you can wet sand it with 800 or 100 grit paper
Or, you could get it painted in a nice candy apple red with ghost flames and racing stripes. 🤪
except car painting isn't cheap, at least not if its decent work. There's now good spray-paint for plastic right in your average hardware source. At the time this came out it was really difficult to get good adhesion on plastic, I've seen some terrible touch-up efforts in the past, but is very do-able now.
I was an engineer for IBM back in the 80's designing circuit board test equipment for card manufacturing and at one point I recall having 5170 serial no 4 (built in Greenock Scotland) as my main workstation. Love to see these old machines - and the old manuals - lot's of memories.
I'd love to see a part 4 with the bios solution you mentioned. Also a great solution for the finish would be to have the top cover bead blasted, and powder coated. I'm sure you could find a local shop that does such work. So no I'm definitely not tired of this series. Keep the updates coming.
IBM used colour Pantone 413 for the 5150/60/70 cases. You can go to a paint store and ask them to mix up you a batch and apply it with a foam roller for a nice finish. Alternatively, an auto paint supply store should be able to mix up a custom colour in a spray can.
Oh yes, let’s see a video on how to get the ibm bios working! Thanks!
You can use Pantone 413 to paint it which will match the original color. I would put a rust oxidizer on it an sand feather the edges and then put couple coats of primer then repaint entire case. This would allow you to sand feather the other scratches before painting to remove all blemishes
There are a ton of TH-cam content creators that do powder coating ... I wonder if one of them would be willing to trade with you ... I watch a lot of those folks that sandblast and repaint old kids toys ... I wonder if one of them would be interested in sandblasting that old case and putting a fresh coat of powder coat on it.
Exactly.
Chips channel! I enjoy watching those channels too.
Probably lots of restoration channels, like mymechanics or similar
Yep.. part 4!!!
My friends and I just explored an abandoned school and found like 10 or so of these and their monitors, keyboards, etc... Quite an exciting experience.
Nice job on the restoration!
Time to start your own channel. Hop to! :-D
You should sell them
It's not touch-up paint, but I painted both the metal top-cover and the front panel of my 5170 (Sorry, Purists!) with Rustoleum spray paint and it looks nearly undetectable versus the factory paint. I'm really happy with it. I used Painter's Touch Ultra Cover Paint+Primer in Satin Stone Gray for the top-cover and a second whiter color from the same line to do the front, but I don't have that second can any longer. I can probably go to the store and figure it out if you'd like.
I very much appreciate this video being 51:50 in length
You can have the case redone via powder coating, it won't cost too much for a small article. Most paint shops are really good with color matching these days, too, they likely can match it as close to 100% as you can get without a time machine :)
I am for one not sick of watching you work on any computer you have repaired.
The first PC I bought was on holiday in Spain in 1993. It was a second hand IBM XT 286 and I was so proud to have a Spanish version of DOS on it. Quite soon afterwards I replaced the board for a baby 386 sx40, and I cut the front panel of the case down to make it flat 😮 as flat fronts was the trend by then. When I moved on to a 486 the only thing I kept from the 286 was the Square IBM sticker which I stuck onto my new no-name case😊.
6:36 Jeez, that transformation from just de-dusting! That fan appears BRAND NEW when comparing the before and after shot
Adrian, you are now one of my top favourite channels on TH-cam, you come across as so friendly and genuine, and although I don’t always understand everything, I love the effort you make in explaining what you’re doing.
Who would ever get tired of ibm restorations? Don't leave us hanging Adrian!
The hottest temperature I ever experienced growing up in Atlanta was 108, in 1980. Over 100 is extremely rare. The hottest temperature ever recorded in the state was 112, way down south. Congrats on beating our record! If we keep burning fossil fuels for energy, we may all make 130 some day!
30:32 Johnson's paste wax (yellow tin) is what you need. It doesn't contain any abrasives like car wax often does, and it provides protection and can be buffed to a nice sheen. It's great stuff for many ither applications too.
Hi Adrian-I was working in my summer job from college at Popular Computing magazine (Byte’s sister publication) when the IBM AT was announced in New York. The next day, it was sitting on my bench at the magazine’s building in Peterborough, New Hampshire. Unfortunately, someone forgot to park the heads on the 5MB hard drive so it was DOA and they had to overnight a new hard drive to me… Then it was off to the reviewers… pretty cool what you did to restore this computer-brings back fond memories of 1984…
I opened up one of these PSU's as well and manged to replace that ludicrously loud fan with a noctua one with twice the airflow. You may chastise me for not keeping it original, but I put the old fan in storage and now it finally makes sense to install a Soundcard in the AT because you can hear anything at all over the sound of the PSU. The loudest part is now actually the harddrive but that's a lot more pleasant.
What I failed at was taking it apart completely, so I never got to clean the 2nd layer PCB properly. tried to macrophotograph my way into it to get an idea on how the caps and parts look like but well, it felt not like a proper enough inspection. But I was too scared of ripping something apart that I couldn't put together again.
That brings back so many memories!! The first ever PC I used at work was the IBM PC/XT then upgraded to the AT which had 5250 emulation to the IBM System 34 we had. Things have come so very far since then…
I am a painter. You could take that cover into a paint store and have them optically match the paint. I would recommend then using an artists brush. I also recommend an acrylic paint for ease of clean up. Make sure the sheen matches. It looks form the videos that you want a satin sheen? In cases of the larger spots, it's more complicated. A painter could take care of those. You need to spray on the paint which involves a painter taking the paint and putting it into a sprayer.
Nut drivers... YES!!!! They had these kits in faux leather/vinyl kits, with those exact two nut drivers, chip puller (cheap), tube of random screws, etc. I had at least two and still have the nut drivers! Wow, the memories.
Not sick of this series of all. Very useful to old IBM restorers.
take the front panel to home depot paint department, they have a color scanner that is pretty good.
Just took a paint chip there today. Worked freaking perfectly.
I have tried this ... couple of issues. It's only for latex paint which really isn't for metal and you have to buy at least a quart (maybe a gallon), which is way more than you need. Better off trying to find a rattle can that is close enough and spray the whole thing, or just leave it.
@@mattp3437 At least here some Automotive stores can colour match rattle cans (they actually mix the colour on site), might be worth a look.
My first PC was a 10 to 12ish MHZ AT with 1 meg of ram and a VGA card. I remember playing eye of the beholder and learning how to use the DOS .. debug tool? Something like that to edit save games and give my characters like 25 strength and 256 hp.
Woodgrain vinyl for the sides!
I read that in Duke Nukem's voice. I wonder why...
Hey, that's not a bad idea!
Those PAPST fans are built like a tank in W. Germany. I saw many of those in large racks and they were built to last forever!
Yeah, Papst fans are some of the best there are. You see them a lot in industrial applications. Digikey stocks them, but they aren't cheap unfortunately
The funny thing is Papst is the German word for Pope
Whew! That was one long journey to getting that machine up and running. So worth watching and learning. Thanks Adrian!
Your videos are awesome. I really like how thorough and informative you are. I never thought retro computers would be so interesting to me. I started my career repairing IBM PC's, XT'S and AT's in the mid to late 80's.
You can replace the 12MHz clock crystal with a 16MHz clock crystal and that would bump the speed to 8MHz. Since the crystal is in a socket, that is a no-soldering upgrade. Since you are not using the original IBM BIOS, it should just work. A couple of the IBM BIOS versions will refuse to start if the clock crystal is replaced with a different speed.
I'm working on my own 5170 now. Thanks for such amazing videos.
Love your videos and style Adrian, but I would please recommend 3 things:
1. Never use windex (or any glass cleaner) on paint. The chemicals will damage the pigment and paint. As well as using a magic eraser, this is one of the reasons it's now dull.
2. Please look at using an anti-static wrist strap whenever touching, or handling IC's or boards. CMOS chips in particular will break down from ESD that you can't see or hear - even if it doesn't damage it immediately, it will degrade over time. Ideally, have an anti-static work mat as well that you can also connect to. These should be connected to ground (normally through a safety resistor).
3. Never touch the edge connectors. The oil and salts from your skin will cause corrosion and potential (no pun) issues.
Definitely more videos on this. If you’ve got more to show us, do it!
I have the same orange/black drivers from a kit I bought back in 90's. The kit case and some tools are gone, but the drivers are here and very useful.
Always nice when things work out in the end as they should.
Completely enjoyed the saga of this cursed computer, haha. I've learned a lot watching your content and enjoy it quite a lot!
Yes, please continue the series. I used the quadtel and would love to see if I could get it back to the IBM Bios. You are genius, thank you!
Yes, Adrian, I'm very interested in your solution, and it seems like a lot of other folks do too! Looking forward to it! Thanks!
In the automotive world I've used something called POR15 to treat rusted metal after sanding and before painting. It seems to work but if you've got pitting in the metal you really need to take a wire wheel to it and get as much of that out as you can. Rust is like a cancer, it will eat through the interior of the metal too. The POR15 will seal it off pretty well.
For something that's severely rusty take a look at electrolysis for rust removal. It works remarkable well if you've got some sacrificial steel to use.
Signed, guy who works on a lot of rusty old cars in a place where they love to throw down salt in the winter.
I'd love to see how you got the original bios working! Thanks for the great work, you never talk too much.
go ahead with the 4th part. I like tagging along with you enduring to resolve things and to get what you really like to achieve :D
Not sick of these videos. Keep them coming when it comes to the 5170.
That side mark on case, now looks like burnt mark from propane torch..
Great decision to change front panel on existing cover.
Long time ago, I have a PC power supply with multiple vertical boards inside and same markings on connector like IBM ones.. But that power brick was 2 times longer, than standard PC supply and wires wasn't integrated on board - on one side was a bunch of screw terminals..
That will be great to see another part from this series about BIOS.. 😊👍
Thanks, Adrian, for another delightful video. I'd love to see a video using the old AT BIOS that has been amended to eliminate the various errors you were experiencing before
Just wanted to say that I am not sick of seeing videos about this computer!
I used to work in an IBM lab in the UK in the 1980s, and we used to get a lot of hardware shipped from the US. Those switchable dual voltage power supplies were a real pain. If you didn't check to make sure they were set to the correct voltage (240v in the UK)... Bang!... New power supply required, sometimes a whole new machine.
110v CRT monitors were the worst though. I've blown up a few in my time plugging them into 240v by mistake.
I remember at work we used to have these IBM5170's and used them for years Our company being one that said if it still works don't change it so they didn't upgrade these for 5 years. Glad to see you getting one back to being totally operational again.
Given I was interested enough to watch parts one to three I'd certainly be game for part four.
Yes...another episode with your BIOS solution would be great. There is no such thing as being tired of you troubleshooting these iconic machines.
Yes please continue with the IBM. I worked on these 30 years ago and I think I still have one in the loft.
Thanks for the great series! Follow up videos very welcome!
The little plastic things, are called stand-offs. Made mostly of either Nylon or plastic.
With the badge rotation, there actually was a stand so that the machine could stand beside a desk, with its badge reading right side up!
I'd love to see a part 4 with the bios solution you mentioned.
43:34 While watching this - right after you said, "The power just went out" - my power went out. No joke. That was the most surreal experience I've had in a long time. Luckily it was only out for about 30 seconds, and my PC booted just fine after, but so weird.
Thanks so much, Adrian - what a fantastic journey!
Watching this is like watching Return of The King. I already know how it ends because I've read the book but I'm still excited.
We bought the extended release DVDs. We've gotten more viewing hours out of the appendices than from the feature films themselves.
I just rebuilt a Tandy 3000 HL trash picked, 286/6Mhz. I know the pain of wanting to keep it original and needing to upgrade things to make it work. I don't think you did anything wrong with the modifications from stock. I had fun seeing you run into all the same problems I did. Keep up the good work.
Oh heck no. Love the videos of you working on that 5170, and those of any other vintage machines, but really IBMs as well. I also grew up with IBM PS2 and 386/25 and up, just bring back fond memories. 😃
A lot of auto part stores can easily mix those two colors in spray cans or touch up paint bottles.
Please do Part IV when you find the time. I enjoyed Part II a lot. I also enjoyed your similar Compaq series.
For the scratches / rust. I have run into this a couple of times and as soon as you start touching anything around the rust, you find out the whole area around it is bad. Unless you are OK with a big spot or you plan to strip down and repaint, it's probably better to just leave alone in the first place. I did use a product called Evapo-Rust on a Compaq case that was rusted (Evapo-Rust is non-toxic and doesn't hurt any of the "good" paint). It cleared off a good size area that had corrosion. After the rust was removed, it didn't look that bad ... actually looked better than the large rust spot that was there previously.
You can install a series resistor to make a fan spin slower. Yes, it works just fine with 4-wire fans when they don't have the PWM and tachometer wires connected. Or if this solution is too crude for your taste you can build a simple PWM circuit with a 555 timer and a potentiometer. Or even find one online ready made.
Once I even used a DC-DC buck converter to control the fan speed, since I was too lazy to make a 555 circuit.
Zalman made a product back in the day called the Fanmate 2. This is an inline adapter with a knob for controlling the output voltage and the controller could mount anywhere inside or outside the case. It's a bit more versatile than a simple series resistor.
Inside it's just a 7805, a resistor, and a potentiometer so it's easy to clone.
That feeling of bliss at the end of a long project is unbeatable.
I've a 5150 with a 5151 monitor, so I've been watching this series with keen interest; and more BIOS info would be useful.
I hear you about the heat dome, Inland NW got it as well. Thanks for the videos :D
Adrian, I'd wager that several of your viewers could supply you with a nice 5170 case cover if you "put out the call to arms". I would have been one of them, but about 10 weeks ago I took my near-pristine 5170-339 to the local e-waste facility, along with the 5154 (Enhanced Color Display) and Model M keyboard. The machine had been upgraded with a Make-It! 486 processor and it had 15MB of extended memory on IBM memory adapters (12MB on one and 3MB on the other), it pained me a bit to just scrap it, but it hadn't been used since 1996 or thereabouts and I couldn't imagine that anyone would want to deal with it. Clearly, my timing was poor.
I would imagine that IBM sold enough 5170s that when they tooled up for the next model, there were enough existing units in the field that they needed to support by producing spare parts for a few years after the original manufacturing run ended, and which has been the case for many other products as well. That may explain the late date code on the ‘new’ supply.
This series turned into quite a marathon, but lots of opportunities came for learning. It was worth it 👍
These days when Papst fans was mounted in computers. 😊
FYI. Papst is top class fan brand.
Great job! Not tired at all of this restoration project. Please make a follow up on the BIOS solution.
those power caps are impressive! great looking caps
I've had old PCs give me jolt in the past for that very reason!
The paint likely got dull from the magic eraser. They are more like a sandpaper than a sponge. Love the videos man keep it up 👍
I am very impressed by that power supply...brilliantly designed!
Oh man, no. It’s old school belt and braces, but not very sophisticated, and an absolute pain to work on. We have come a long way and there’s nothin there to miss. :-)
Thanks for sharing this 5170 machine Adrian. Would like to know your solution as well. Loved this series so much also. I have an IBM 5170 as well, like you, a type 1 as well that I need to reassemble but mostly replace a dynoram chip or chips. It failed one of the Texas tower chips on the 512k total back in 1988, need to debug it soon, Not sure which one yet, thanks 4 sharing! -Retro
I would really like to see more on this machine, Thankyou!
If only! Once upon a time, I had an official Microsoft box labeled "Windows 286" complete with the thick manuals and big floppy disks. I don't have it anymore, but if I did, I would have happily mailed it to you.
38:37: Oh hai, Rammy!
In these old power supplies, the +5V is regulated, but the +12 and -12 are not; their voltages are simply derived from the +5V regulation. So if you lower the +5V voltage, the secondary voltages will track down. No big deal, as these voltages get regulated on the drives.
About the ifixit kit, as much as I love the kit you have...I also have the older style one that had a driver where the "extension" comes out and there is a hole in the driver handle so you can have a T handle driver that is great for screws like that. Find yourself one of the older ifixit drivers to go with your toolkit....you'll be glad you did.
Look forward to seeing the next part.
So much fun, Adrian! Thanks!
This is my favorite ever ADB series! Tell me you don't admire IBM's commitment to quality, robustness, and excellence! That machine is the beginning of the modern age. I sure would like to see Xenix or OS/2 1.0 running on it!
I second that. Xenix 2.2 would be of great interest.
I have the same exact two nut drivers. They are the only part of that kit I still have. If I remember correctly they came in a fake leather folio. There was a yellow three pin grabby thing I used for a long time, and a very simple chip extractor.
Adrian, you're a Legend!
Keep up the awesome work.
I leave these videos on while playing a easy game like Minecraft or Animal Crossing, keep it up i'm enjoying the PC/AT videos!!!
Me gustó, es emocionante ver el rescate de estas computadoras, sobre todo, para america latina donde no pudimos vivir esos tiempos
5:10 I know of a tool very appropriate to add to your orange-red bit kit there. It's a Neiko kit off of Amazon, isn't it? Neiko also makes a nice little right-angle hand ratchet driver, the "03044A". It lets you put some more leverage on screws like that with much less risk stripping them than you would have with a drill or electric screwdriver. It's pretty pretty much the ideal as a "socket wrench for quarter-inch hex bits". I love it.
Other people may have mentioned, but your iFixit toolkit includes a 1/4" to 4mm socket converter in the upper right, so you can use the iFixit 4mm bits with quarter-inch drive systems and power screwdrivers. In case that comes in handy sometime.
(What I find handy when I need more torque or just to get into tight spaces by hand is my little 1/4" super-stubby bit holder. It's German - made by Wiha - and pretty cheap while still good quality. I can use it with the adaptor for my iFixit 4mm bits too.)
2:43 I LOVE the chonky. Wish modern PCs still had it.
Thanks for the great videos ,making me miss my 8088 and 286 I never got up and running ,I did however resurrect a amd k6-2 laptop recently ah win 98 my old friend
Version numbers of 8-Bit Soundblasters:
- 1.0: CT1320B with CMS installed
- 1.5: CT1320C with easy CMS upgrade path
- 2.0: CT1350 with new PCB and not-so-easy CMS upgrade path (additional chip needed)
- 2.5 (Germany only): Rebadged Aztech Sound Galaxy NX-II for which German distributor CPS got the permession from Creative Labs to market this as CPS Soundblaster 2.5 due to supply shortage of Creative Soundblasters. Supports Adlib, Soundblaster and Disney/Covox
I had a CT1320 (don't remember B or C) as a kid. A thing I remember was that the DSP chip was not a typical flat plastic case but massively bulging. But the card worked and I also have seen pictures on the internet of 1320s with bulging DSPs
Nowadays, out of the 8 Bit cards, I have a CT1350 with the CMS upgrade (by coincidence purchased from Necroware on his eBay account, it was a test card that he used to develop the programming for the additional chip) and a CPS branded Aztech NXII
Nice project, bringing back the 5170 to the original beauty, although it is a bumpy way.
100% would like to see Part 4!
I wonder what would be involved in getting the top case bead blasted and resprayed or powder coated the correct colour? That would also remove the rust underneath the existing paint.