This was a tragic story and if anything it highlights how fragile life is and how there are always multiple factors that contribute to a mishap. If it wasn't for the bad weather or if Tom had flown his approach to Runway 08 then this might not have happened. I've included links to the Buddy Holly video and the airline pilot honeymoon crash below, as well as links to our Discord community if you want to join the discussion. Buddy Holly's Plane Crash 👉th-cam.com/video/QQFO6isorFg/w-d-xo.html Airline Pilot Makes Tragic Mistake on Honeymoon Flight: 👉th-cam.com/video/EbRqORwifvc/w-d-xo.html Discord: 👉 discord.gg/JzwMp57uw4 Adam's Facebook Page 👉 facebook.com/AviationAccidentsThisDayInHistory
@@pilot-debrief Stunt flying lessons - one or two - would be fun and very effective in teaching angle of attack principles. Finding a stunt flying instructor might be a little difficult, though.
Could you now learn the physics or at least principles in a high quality air sim? Even a consumer one like the new ms flight simulator?@@riverwildcat1
@@DamplyDoo yes. It is called upset, stall recovery training. Usually fixed based because the forces on the hydraulics are not the best and are not accurate for the real G forces. Had a sim session on the A320 last weekend for work and the new mantra is: Upset or Stall, I have Control, Push, Roll, Thrust and Stabilize. In the case of the A320, usage of flaps to be considered below 20,000ft to assist in stabilizing. Kinda annoying with the yepping but good to remember for quick action
@@marcblank3036 are you aware of the crash way back when in Russia when the kid took control and messed up the auto pilot? I always wondered why they didn't just point the nose down 45 degrees, apply power and just level off
@@DamplyDoo yes. The A300 or A310. Pre fly by wire technology with no protections. I think it was a very gradual turn and recovery was perhaps not initiated on time or at low level. The AF accident near Brasil was a fine example what happens when not well trained pilots end up in the Alternate law on an A330
Just yesterday my CFI said to me on final "remember, small corrections". Wonder if I'd remember that 600 hours later. Glad your video will drill it into my head. I've picked up so much watching you. Thanks so much.
A lesson from car racing is “slow hands and slow feet equals fast times” . The same probably applies to flying. Slow hands and slow feet equals long life.
everything in life is always about 1 thing i learned. the basics. sports, business, etc. if you cant do all the basic stuff in ur sleep. you need more practice.
One extremely important thing we learn about here at Pilot Debrief is how critical our angle of attack is. Our wings must remain level at slow speeds and low altitudes. Our lift plummets to zero as bank angle increases. My instructors never explained this, but it’s alarmingly obvious in many documented small plane crashes.
True! The only way he was going to square that corner was if he had a lot more airspeed...but even that would have been a risky decision. Just go around!
@@pilot-debriefthis Some may ignore this, but in the look of these videos, I hear that the pilot is not VFR certified. Is it expensive to get the certification, or does it take a ridiculous amount of time? Being able to fly in weather or clouds sounds like one of those things that's a huge plan B. Maybe because I play games, I'm just thinking of it as a skill I need to level up for my character. Lol
If you know the stall speed for your bank angles that’s a plus too. Piper archer two is around 78 at 45 degree flaps up. 68 flaps down. Vy is 76, so it’s actually slower. Gotta watch the speed.
The way you deliver your posts, is (and always has been) so respectful and as the saying goes “you earn respect”……. Hoover, you have my respect sir, and thank you for this post and what is a sad event to cover, in the hope that it never happens again. Peace & Love x
@@pilot-debrief There are so many ‘TH-camrs’ trying to cash-in on aviation. As someone professionally who deals with disasters, I loved your comment about “the family being in the room when you make the post” So dignified and respectful x
Hoover, Even though I am no longer an active pilot, I really love your “Debrief” videos. I would offer one suggestion. When scripting your presentations, I recommend you refrain from using the phrase “He or she was doing what they loved.” When I was active I told all of my family and friends that if I “Bought the Farm” while flying to NEVER under ANY circumstances utter that expression on my behalf. While it was quite true that I dearly loved what I was doing, that love did not extend to ending up in a pile of mangled aluminum and/or fabric. Keep up the great work, I always look forward to your presentations. Ken
What I really like about this channel is how respectful you are towards the pilots and how you try your best to analyse and learn from their mistakes without judging the pilots. Too many pilots out there would blame these pilots and say that they shouldn't have been in the air in the first place. Aviation is also about acknowledging the fact that everyone can make mistakes to learn from them as much as possible. Thanks for your work.
Whats wrong with saying they shouldn't have been in the air in the first place? Hoover can't say it because softies get their panties in a bunch about anything! Lotta incompetent pilots kill innocent passengers and I bet their families are judging. This wreck was flying 101 and if you don't have it at 600 hours you never will.
A wince-making but perfect illustration of why my instructor used to be so forcefully critical regarding attitude and speed when turning base leg and finals.
Your being very kind about the pilot. His various confusions about basic stuff seems to speak to inexperience. Not understanding the "cut-out", not understanding "recycling", plus confusion about the weather. Plus didn't know he was still on tower frequency. It all adds up to inexperience. This Bonanza is not tolerant of inexperienced pilots. Just because he had 600 hours didn't mean he was experienced. Seems he was behind the plane before he took off.
I agree. I'm not a pilot, but hope to be some day soon, and I have no desire to be the only pilot in an aircraft and have that level of confusion and uncertainty.
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You sound like a savage in that airplane . THAT IS WHAT WE WANT AND NEED thank you sir KEEP FLYING !
You have to know exactly what you will do IF things don't go your way. Always have a backup plan, altitudes, headings, radio frequencies, emergency procedures. Write it down or commit it to memory. Your life may depend on it. Remember, you can't pull over to the side of the road and get it together.
Nothing like waking up on a Sunday morning and tune in to Pilot Debrief... Man! it only takes one mistake sometimes. Many have done 100 dumb mistakes and are still alive (thank goodness), some have done 5 mistakes and have died. At the end of the day, we need to strive to be great pilots every single flight. RIP Captain.
More like 20 mistakes, most of which were really basic mistakes. incompetent pilot with a flight review given by a rich guy friend cfi who should be investigated. The cfi friend claiming he was an 'exceptional pilot' is very very very sus. Do many 'exceptional pilots' mess up aircraft systems, airspace, radio, basic piloting so badly? Pd doesnt call out rich white ceo pilots .. maybe the faa should.
Yup. And regardless of having 600 hours or 16,000 hours, aeronautic physics treat everyone the same. And all it takes is one mistake and physics will not bend the rules😢
I learned to fly in the 1980s, and I had an old school flight instructor. We did lots of slow flight and stalls. To this day, I do frequent airspeed crosschecks in the pattern, and I just naturally use rudder to keep wings level near stall. My instructor would physically prevent me from using ailerons until I got it through my thick skull to use rudder instead. Primacy is a thing.
Pre 1960's airplanes ailerons were not calibrated to avoid adverse aileron yaw. But then most are and dont need that much rudder except on full power climbs AND NEAR STALLS.
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Thanks for the story , I love those savages that YOU WILL LEARN FROM or else . lol hahhaha I had a old teacher kick me right in the rear because I was not listening. I was listening after that hahahha
I've been flying professionally since 1983 (8 years as a T-38 instructor, then B-52 aircraft commander then at a major airline flying a variety of planes). When non-pilot friends ask about getting their private pilot's license I ALWAYS say the same thing "get your instrument rating also!" This extra step could save your life.
100% - not only does it increase your available options (usually for the better, but sometimes not...) but remaining in the system talking to ATC helps you exercise and widen the scope of options.
Having watched this channel for a bit, never a pilot, but I’m usually left wondering why WOULDN’T someone get instrument rated? Is it a time / cost / ongoing certification issue? Genuinely curious.
@@agm65ccip Exactly....great question!? The smart ones do. If you read a lot of accident reports, most of the time it's pilot error. We called it "task saturation" and therefore the pilot gets behind the aircraft. And a lot of that is VFR rated pilots getting into the weather or trying to avoid the weather. I say spend the extra time and money to get your IFR rating, it could easily safe your life one day.
I feel the same way. His first mistake was not getting his Instrument rating. I was 48 when I got my VFR license and the next week started IFR training. Now have 870 hours and file IFR everywhere I go.
Whenever I see a crash debrief about some guy taking friends/family and he did NOT have an instrument rating, and weather kills them, I just shake my head.
You're such a kind soul, hoover and I enjoy all the info you bring to the table. I have rarely even found myself as a passenger on a plane, but you make things incredibly easy to understand.
yup, "up to The Dalles and then over to Bend". The Dalles are a town just east of Hood River on the Gorge, and Bend is south of there in central Oregon. Sounds like his destination was Bend.
Same for me. It was very clear on the transmission but maybe that's because I'm from the area and know what "The Dalles" sounds like when spoken very fast.
As an older pilot (56) who got his PPL later in life and only flies monthly, it's easy to forget the basics. I love this channel as it keeps all of these little details top of mind, especially during landings, which for me at least out of all the skills in flying is the one that decreases most dramatically in proficiency as you fly less.
Your age is not the issue: proficiency is about performing piloting tasks regularly to a standard, not about age! If you use a flight simulator correctly, you can keep allot, but not all, of your proficiency in between real flights.
Dude, just stop risking your life ffs. You have at least another good decade of life! I will never understand why people tempt fate like that, it's NOT worth, wtf
@@RogueReplicant Americans live almost 80 years; so, that is more than 10 years of life left. Second, piloting a plane is not inherently risky if the pilot is proficient and stays current. If you think it is too risky for you to pilot planes, then you don't fly; however, pilot risk is a function of ADM, ability, skill, proficiency, and currency, not age. Just because you might be scared to fly at middle age does not mean others share that same fear.
@@Mistamannfour "Piloting a plane is not inherently risky". You must be out of your goddamn mind, wtf. It's one of the riskiest things to do! No other activity even compares! One mistake and that's it. Btw, I wasn't talking to you, busybody, so mind your own business. tf
I used to do instruction in a V-tail Bonanza. It was mostly check outs for pilots to rent the airplane. Among other things, we would do stalls. The airplane was very docile with the flaps up. With the flaps down, it flat out had the worse stall characteristics of any airplane I have ever flown. It would drop a wing further and faster than any other plane, and that was staying mostly coordinated. It was the only V-tail I have ever flown, so I don't know if it was just that plane, or a characteristic of the type.
There is a fatal accident of a short field takeoff with flaps where a Bonanza tip stalled and rolled over, I'm not sure if this was a V tail. I mentioned earlier where I thought the Bonanza had bad tip stall characteristics.
Any V tail Bonanza pilots out there with some experience to answer this question: when does the stall warning activate on the aircraft at approach speeds, with gear down? Does it warn you well before a stall or is the Bonanza easy to go from low speed to stall without warning just with a big handful of aileron? My aircraft stall warning chirps away at approach speeds on bumpy days in turns and gets my attention!
@@davidpowell7614 V-Tail owner/pilot for many years. In my experience with my V35B and other v-tails, a properly working stall warning indicator goes off with plenty of margin in any flight configuration. On bumpy days on approaches, there can be an occasional chirp, but I have always had a correct amount of additional speed for anticipatable wind shear. About twice I had it go off enroute, including once in the clouds in the midwest in sudden bad turbulance and unusual attitude recovery (fortunately I had power pulled back pretty good and was cruising at about the top of the white arc at ~125 kias). While practicing stalls during BFR etc, I am too much of a coward to pull the tiger's tail by giving a bunch of aileron.
Very good point about him wanting to make the turn to the runway before entering the Class C airspace. Sometimes these pressures to conform to regulations cause us to not “fly the plane”, and it was fatal in this case.
Exactly. Some of these airports are stacked right on top of one another. But even the FAAs regulations for flying over houses people and property, don't pertain to them in the traffic pattern. You can't get in trouble for busting a class C if you're trying to make a safe stable approach to an adjacent field. Just maintain visual separation and yield the right of way to larger aircraft. Even if someone wanted to have a chat after, I'd rather explain myself than have my family get a completely different phone call.
Also it’s not like you clip the Charlie and the FAA beats you with sticks. It’d suck and you might have a very uncomfortable conversation, but if you weren’t flying like an idiot and just tell the truth “I was having a little trouble getting lined up due to some unexpected weather and went a little long on the base, sorry,” you’ll get out the other side fine.
@@jamesordwayultralightpilot His base turn was right around where I start pulling the power out to start my descent from pattern altitude. It was VERY early even with the Portland airspace up ahead. But if you're not familiar with the Pearson airspace, it can feel pretty cramped. There's also some hills that stack up as you fly your downwind leg so as you turn base, you're only about 4-500 feel AGL before they fall off towards the river. It can definitely add to the cramped feeling until you've done it a couple of times.
I've never been a pilot,. In fact, heights make me dizzy. But, now at the age of 77, I'm addicted to Pilot Debrief. So professionally done, and so carefully explained in laymen's terms. If I had to do it over again, I would work on my height issues and go for my pilot's licence. Thank you, Hoover!!
@@marcblank3036the problem, in my opinion, is that some instructors still teach pitch for airspeed and power for altitude. I have a feeling that this pilot never added power in that turn, because he wasn’t taught to use power for speed.
@@rtbrtb_dutchy4183 is possible but the loadfactor formula must have been discussed. And looking at the crash photo I am not sure of the flap position. It was a very tight circuit and as you state it must have been performed at a high bank angle, low power
@@marcblank3036there taught this but once they get their ticket they rarely practice maneuvering the plane. I know a guy who turns on his autopilot upwind and flys the entire flight with the bug. Consequently every landing is a controlled crash, think go arounds, side loading the gear and near overruns.. YET a friend flight instructor will pencil whip a BFR..for a lunch. This guy is dangerous, yet he is commercial rated!!,
@@judd_s5643 sad to hear. I was taught in the US, Prescott, Arizona. I once made a very tight turn at low level and my instructor told me I had a lot of women to meet in my life and not do that again. These days I fly the A320, a lazy man's airplane in normal mode. But, full of surprises for poorly trained pilots in alternate or direct law. Stall protection etc at lower level or non existent
I'm always stunned when the crash is something that even I can understand violates basic flight physics (I'm not a pilot): too low, too slow, too steep a turn. Even video games teach you planes can't do this. I wonder why he tried :(
Glad you see the obvious thing while pd endlessly praises and excuses this supposed;y "exceptional pilot." This whole flight was a shitshow snd the cfi friend who signed off his flight review needs an faa flashlight up his backside.
@@ac583 It's the flight equivalent of a freeway inter-change where someone swerves across six lanes of traffic to try to make his off-ramp too late. Except instead of hitting 5 other cars, he stalls at 40 feet and 80 mph. The impossible turn.
@@danepatterson8107 panic--you can hear in his conversation he is already iffy--he really did not understand a lot of things going on-it is easy in simulators to duplicate what happened and why every border line people need to use-video games are good too!!!
Between July and September, the weather is hot, dry and usually severe clear. A lot of weekend flyers around here never bothered with instrument ratings.
Ol’ Tom was an important, big deal at his fishing company. The hard fought and earned experience, radio knowledge and etiquette etc., clearly didn’t apply to the guy. Old, well of guys getting into the flying game late in life ends poorly. Rinse wash repeat.
Hoover, you always emphasize the humanity of those involved in the incidents you debrief. That tells us all how you respect all members of the pilot community.
Much respect on the aspect of not saying anything you wouldn't say to the families face. That's how I treat my comments or anything I do on social media in general. Always have and will. 👍
That used to be our home airport. It is a short runway because of a long displaced threshold for runway 26. The area proceeding the displaced threshold is over 100 feet higher in altitude and there is a Fred Meyer store at the edge of that. I can't understand why he cut the approach so closely. There is a field to your right when you are on a right down when for runway 26. You turn base at that field and actually head in the direction of PDX. When you come to the Fred Meyer store off to your right with that field below you you turn final. I even turn base further out than the blue line normal approach, in line with the triangular field to the right, at which point I turn final. You must be on a stabilized approach to make sure that you clear the terrain and your aiming point needs to be the junction of the displaced threshold with the rest of the runway. Given the terrain differences there is no way the approach he made could have been successful. He did not have an instrument rating and there was concern about weather. IFR weather is very common in that area. Luckily, the area rarely gets thunderstorms. So for the most part the IFR weather is very conducive to IFR operations and there is quite a lot of IFR training that goes on there, mostly out of KSPB and KHIO. The airspace there is tricky and as you mentioned Portland tower acts as an advisory frequency. Generally you just stay under 1100 feet until you are out of the cut out and head toward Vancouver Lake. If you wish to go east it is quite easy to then turn right, head toward the Battleground VOR and stay under the class Charlie to the North and then connect with the river into the Gorge and Eastward. In good weather I would always take that route North and then Eastward, which takes you near the class delta of Troutdale (KTTD). If there were any clouds and it looked concerning, I always filed an IFR flight plan. Another rule of thumb, never fly Eastward through the Gorge in poor visibility. There are wires and bridges that cross the Gorge and the only safe way to fly Eastward in low visibility is on an instrument flight plan well above those obstructions. An interesting fact is that Pearson Field is the oldest continuously operating airfield in the Pacific Northwest and one of the two oldest continuously operating airfields in the United States. I even had an engine out there departing to the West and was able to squeak it down on 08. I wonder if there were clouds to his East that forced him to try to make that short approach. At any rate with the high terrain at the 26 end of the runway it could never have been successful. Maybe in a Piper cub but not in a Bonanza or in my 182. An option would have been to declare an emergency and land at the huge PDX Airport. This is a very sad event. I have many Lamiglas fly rods that I purchased at their factory and store in Woodland Washington. What you may not know is that it is the same town where the accident you covered occurred at the Woodland airport in which the overloaded Mooney tried to take off and smacked into a berm (N97119 I believe). There is good fishing in the Lewis River there for salmon and steelhead. I have flown into that airport as well multiple times for fishing but only lightly loaded with one friend, half tanks and light gear. Thanks Hoover for the debrief. RIP and condolences to the family. It is a tight knit flying community at Pearson Field and this will be felt.
There is no excuse to wait until you are so close to the runway before starting the final turn. But it is a very common pilot error. You should not go by ground objects due winds and your speed can make it a different time when to turn to final. That is a bad habit, not all airports have the same ground objects at the beginning of runways. Only stupid CFI's teach like that.
Roger - read your comment and dang , i certainly agree . A lot of very good comments on this - Thanks you guys - Small adjustments on the pattern flight . Pay extremely close attention to All you are doing in flight ! Especially , when you are very close to the ground ! Damn , fellers - Concentration is KEY !!! 😳
Blue Line normal approach? Do you use the Blue Line on Vglide speed DMMS on airspeed indicator? My 1990's CFI had that line on all the 5 airplanes he taught. His students were the only ones flying when winds were tough. LOL..
I think it's easy to see where the mistake is. I would personally never flown slower than 90 knots in that plane while maneuvering. People who don't watch the airspeed can lose control.
I'm not a pilot but I enjoy learning about flying. That said, I wanted to say that I appreciate your tact and sympathy as you tackle the tough subject matter of flight mishaps. Thanks for your hard work and thoughtful approach.
Though I’m not a pilot, a lifelong aviation enthusiast. My late Father instilled the love of airplanes in me (he flew Cubs in the late 40s.) This has become one of my channels. Thanks Hoover.
@pilot-debrief Thank you for remembering that the families might see this and being compassionate and respectful towards them. A lot of channels seem to forget that human element along with being respectful and make things worse for the families. I have lost 5 of my immediate family members in different situations and sometimes I will carry something someone may mistakenly or intentionally say for years. I really appreciate you.
Last week I was flying in Amsterdam TMA, with Flight information on the Amsterdam Info frequency. I was flying towards, but as per airspace restrictions, under the active 06 Approach path, and the ATC lady informed me to be aware of wake turbulence of airliners on the 06 ILS. As it happened I saw a B787 ahead of me passing from left to right, a few hundred feet higher than I was flying, so I decided to make a 360 before continuing crossing below the ILS approach path. I think it was really neat for the ATC to pro-actively inform me.
I think he sounded confused during many of his ATC interactions. Maybe some neurological event like a TIA or ?? His confusion about "the gorge" was especially troubling, That exchange would occur on nearly every flight from his field.
I don’t find it that odd, honestly. Keep in mind that, in relative terms, a 600hr pilot is still an exceptionally low time pilot. I went to give a 1000hr guy a BFR in his own C182 years ago, and he had zero clue how the constant speed prop in his own airplane worked.
He's a boomer. They have trouble with technology and picking up new phrases. If it's something they've never heard before, it's typically a 20 second turnaround on them getting up to speed
You have to fly the airplane FIRST. From the way he sounded talking to the tower, he didn't have his act together. He also made a comment about getting above the weather. As a VFR pilot, that is never a good idea, because once you're above it, at some point you are going to have to get back down. That wasn't a factor in the crash, but it was a sign that his mindset was not right. Always have an exit strategy in every situation. He put himself in a situation mentally that was the reason for this tragedy.
Almost tunnel vision toward the end where he had perfect visibility but couldn't snap himself out of the stressful situation he just flew through. They always say, never stop flying the plane. He already had his seat belt unbuckled before he got to the downwind.
I agree with your reply and the other replies here. There's not a lot more to add other than it seems a lot of people are attempting to fly without basic aviation skills. As Hoover says, aviate. This accident, along with many others on this channel, indicates that many pilots are not sensitive to how airplanes actually fly. That is, the sound and feel an airplane makes when it's close to or in a stall. Or also, the likelihood of a stall when banking steeply at a low airspeed. It seems people are able to pass their check ride without having the necessary skills. I don't want to be disrespectful, but are people thinking this through sufficiently? I'm a pilot and I can imagine mistakes that I could make that would be fatal, but this sort of stall is not one of them.
He was not proficient, his knowledge of his own airplane, the weather, not even knowing the local language for “the cut” at his home airplane, radio work was not good. No way anyone would reasonably call the guy proficient.
totally agree. The next thing after your PPL needs to be more instrument training and your rating. Too many deaths result from poor weather and poor decisions because of pilots lacking that experience.
It's expensive and will most likely take more hours instruction than primary instruction. Unless you can take a few weeks off work, it could take forever. I'm sure there are prodigies that can do it a few weekends between their day job, but I'm not one of them.
Doubtful money was the issue in this case. Much more likely to be 'available free time', or, frankly, 'just didn't want to'. Lots of pilots don't get their instrument rating, and he was one of them.
My POH says I can recover within 250 with normal stall recovery. And while true you still have to add in the time it takes to realize you are in a stall to start the recovery to begin with.
@@MaxSterling01 If you hear the stall warning horn and you're 200 feet AGL, you're in big trouble. From the video, it looked like he might have even been lower than that. All of the big planes are required to fly a stabilized approach. This cowboy flying just isn't smart - even if you've managed to get the plane on the ground 100 times before.
@@briantoplessbar4685 Heading, speed and descent are all set up long before landing. Notice how you never see a jet turning base for final? It’s because they’re mandated to use a stabilized approach.
Hoover, your channel is exceptional. Thank you for sharing your passion, experience, knowledge, and compassion for the very real people involved in these hard lessons of human factors. I’m a retired USAF pilot and current professional aviator myself-I am constantly teaching myself these lessons and share them with my fellow aviation professionals. The hardest part is these errors are remarkably consistent in a relatively small corner of aviation, but the most significant-maintaining aircraft control. Far too many consider this basic element of flying a given while being distracted by everything else … especially when weather, automation, ATC, navigating, and just the act of getting the mission done, even when it doesn’t make sense to continue. These are sadly, entirely avoidable.
You know what I like best about these videos, apart from being interesting and well presented, is that you can apply the lessons learned in nearly every situation in life. To be honest with yourself and your abilities, speak up if you think something isn't right, ask for help if you need it.. don't be too egotistical.. great advice for life in general. Keep up the great work!
You want to make that turn in a cub, you will "probably" pull it off, but a turn like that in a V tail Bonanza is akin to "the impossible turn". You cannot fly that plane like a cub or a kitfox. This is the exact reason that stabilized approachs are so important. I get nervous every time I see pilots at my local uncontrolled airport making extremely tight turns to final, I have no desire to be an eyewitness and telling a reporter what I saw.
I agree completely, we don't know if he often would try risky maneuvers but this was a very risky maneuver in this aircraft type. Long ago Dad had a Helio Courier and he could safely fly a approach like this because the wing had leading edge slats that made the wing virtually stall proof.
The runway is only 3275ft with a 762ft displaced threshold and downtown Vancouver is directly west of the end of the strip. It looks like his base leg was right at the end of the displaced threshold. Even if he got the nose around, it seems very unlikely that it was going to get stabilized and landed. I won't even practice PO 180s on runway 26, it's just too cramped. Your final leg is over a Kroger parking lot, down a hill, over some trees. I still get squirrely just flying a normal pattern in there occasionally.
@@Shmeeps_phd Yeah it seems just like the airport in Burley Idaho, Urban sprawl happens, they start building around an existing airport that was isolated 50 years ago, and take no consideration for the safety of the public or the pilots. Landing and takeoffs are the most dangerous phases of flight so let's put houses and businesses right off both ends of the runways so that people can complain about the noise and danger from the airport that was there before the houses. Personally I fly for fun and don't like using GA airports that fall under Class B or C airspace with tiny corridors and cutouts in really busy airspace like Portland or LA, it's just too stress inducing. The technical challenge can be fun when you plan for it and it's not LAX, but sequencing in between jets that land faster than my top speed and doing 3-4 go arounds because I'm about to be a hood ornament on a 737 is not really relaxing. But it does exercise your sphincter.
What I notice are the common factors are: weather or lack of experience with the aircraft or its equipment. For me, if weather is questionable, I ain’t flying. And if I don’t know the aircraft from spinner to tail, I’m not flying it as a PIC.
I found this channel watching those documentaries about comercial flights. Now I watch your videos about mostly small plane crashes. The way you break it down is the best. And the emotion you put into it bc you genuinely care and want people to learn is obvious.
Age is a thing. My dad (90) and me (58) flying all our life. Both tested planes etc etc. We have the experience also outside the box. We both have thousand multi of hours. But we did agree that hours do not matter. It’s proficiency and the realisation when getting older age is the biggest influence of failing. My dad handed in his license at 62 and me at 55. No point to prove our selfs any further. We have the T and concluded “ on the top of success we stop.” Getting over 60, just think, your not the quickest nor the wisest controlling a plane. Don’t make your hobby into an experiment. Just stop when it was fun.
Very wise. American culture has an issue with admitting age. Flying takes acuity on physical and mental levels. I like how you said it's not just about the hours.
Age 69, flying for 48 years, mei for 34 years and current, safer now than when 30 years old ..it's about proficiency, not about age, however, the mind and body needs to work in unity. Would you give up driving at 55 or 62? Maybe think about giving up ifr as one gets older and less confident. Every case is different. One size does not fit all.
@@RonGlasgow-s7l it’s better to fly ifr dan VFR if not proficient enough. But with lots of respect your an old pilot not an bold pilot and that makes the difference
@@MonkPetite what about all of those vfr rated only pilots of all ages...how does their proficiency or lack of , fit into the proficiency equation? In other words, can they be deemed proficient if they never were rated ifr?
@ the problem is not VFR or IFR rated. I have seen old guys that could only fly IFR and where very poor in VFR skills. Time build is also no factor. I know guys that fly jets for 15000 plus and can’t fly a cessna at all. One guy is a falcon driver but he resent crashed a tiger moth. Overconfident he was but not proficient. That’s where training comes in. Keep up the training. VFR , IFR upset manoeuvres.. But the big problem is that a VFR certificate does not demand you to practice like in IFR. What is basically a small flaw in the regulations. Lets call those VFR pilots hobby pilots as they fly maybe once every two weeks or so. That’s no proficiency build at all. Even more, the recreational certified pilot is a non practice pilot. They practising an experiment and that often in a experimental rig.
If I were a family member I would be thankful for a compassionate debrief from your channel. I would also hope my loved one died not un vein but this debrief helps his larger aviation family. So sad for his family and friends 🙏
Your compassion is excellent. I'm not really a plane addict but my dad was so i know all the names of them, but I absolutely do love the old prop liner's and early jets like the comet boing 707 , 727 etc . My first plane i flew in was a Vickers Viscount Cambrian airways from Manchester airport UK.. and my favourite is the l1011 TriStar. Thanks for a very detailed and very very interesting channel hoover 💯🤟
One thing I noticed and doesnt apply only to aviation but just communication in general, ATC asked he was he going through the cutout, a request for intentions. The reply was Do you want me to go through the cutout? There were a couple of other places in the conversation where they didnt seem to be precisely communicating.
Thank you for doing these videos. It's so important to study accidents and learn from them. It's always humbling to see a good pilot make one mistake that costs them their lives. I try to fly conservatively and with a large margin of error, but there's always cases like these where it takes one impulse decision to change everything.
Why is there no mainstream news outlet in the US reporting the news with an attitude like this? Calm, compassionate, informative, focused on the facts and as little bias as possible.
Agreed. However, he has the benefit of the factual data from completed investigations. News outlets, on the other hand, report as it happens and often speculate. Just like the rest of us.
dang man good job on analyzing all the data here! I feel for this pilot the only explainable thing is he didnt want to cause an accident with an airliner. poor guy was likely just trying to keep others safe.
Those are the “Doctor Killer” and as a kid growing up, my family dentist added to this reputation. He had two dental practices in two different towns. He routinely flew himself and his medical staff back-and-forth. One day he crashed and killed himself and his entire office staff. My sister’s best friend was scheduled to be his first patient the next day. We saw her on a bike and so my mother stopped our car to say hi to her. She was in a rush to get to her dental appointment. We knew that she used the same dentist as us and we broke the bad news to her that it was pointless for to continue to her appointment because the dentist died on the evening prior.
How far were the practices apart? Just curious. I know a couple pilots that fly to destinations just because they think it impresses people. You can drive to many of the destinations in less time than navigating airports.
OMG, I feel so bad for you and your sister's best-friend. I just lost my dentist to a brain aneurysm or something on the brain that gave way. (Tumor or other), unbeknownst to him. He has an amazing practice and he had every certification known to General and corrective dentistry and reconstruction accidents. We lost a good one and we can be taken out by a plane crash or a little gremlin sitting up in your head ready to give way. Take every day as if it's your last when you are post-50 years old., I've seen this way too much (unknown heart, unknown brain, unknown advanced cancer ailments snuffing away good people every month/week. It's heartbreaking. I can't imagine losing your dentist, that is until I just did.
@@donmoore7785but it is relevant. Your attitude in general and in specific situations can become a live or die situation. I've read accident accounts where there was a totally cavalier attitude regs, ratings, CGs, gross weight, I'm in charge nobody is going to tell me until they are in up to their collective noses yelling, "mayday,mayday, mayday". Where your brain goes your ass has got to follow.
I am not going to comment on this mishap specifically. However, if you are going to own your own plane, especially a high performance plane like a Bonanza, you need your instrument rating. When you buy a plane you want to use that plane. You want to travel and carry passengers, and go places, and you are going to have to get back. All these things put pressure as pilot in your decision making process. It doesn't take much weather to push a pilot into uncomfortable, even dangerous situations, and a high performance aircraft will make those decisions have to come faster. When traveling in a high performance aircraft you can travel a great distance and that means you can encounter a lot of weather. So unless you just like flying around the pea patch then you need to get your instrument rating and treat flying as a professional endeavor. If this gentleman would have had a instrument rating he would have known that once he made two way communication with the controller he was cleared into the class C airspace. He would have been comfortable interacting with the controller. And when the weather was a little worse than expected he could have asked for a pop up clearance and been on his merry way. He would have been used to multi-tasking, communicating, and not trying to avoid clouds and the ground while flying at a 140 knots. Again, I am not addressing this specific incident but is for the pilots who own there own planes and want to use it for travel. Because they are the ones who are very likely to get into a High Risk/Low Frequency situation. And that is the most dangerous area to be in.
He probably was terrified of busting the class C airspace, the boundary line went right past the highway. And as you say, if he was familiar with IFR procedures it would have been a non-issue. Or if he was not stressed or staying ahead of the plane, fly the plane first, do a missed approach, bust the class C in a stabilized climbing turn, say intentions to ATC, or declare an emergency, and work it out later on the ground if he has to call someone. Instead, he gave up control of his airplane and did a tip stall, which this aircraft has been evident for in several accidents.
Not trying to be antagonistic but when you say things like "own there own planes" You really undermine your own credibility. Unless you are ESL there is no excuse for not knowing what the word "there" means. People notice that and think "gee this person should probably master 2nd grade grammar before he goes around giving aviation advice."
Hi Hoover! Thank you for your technically correct, considerate explanations of the tragic causes in all your videos. You're doing a great job, with your heart in the right place!
Young man , I am so happy I found you a few weeks ago. I subscribed and have been catching up with your older work. I have parkinsons and channels like yours give me something to look forward to. Hoover thank you for your hard work
I'm no pilot but enjoy your channel as I find it interesting. Just watched your older video entitled "My Biggest Mistake!". You spoke at one point about haters and I think you quite possibly, and most likely, could be saving lives. Ignore the negative as I think your work is valuable. Like I said I'm no pilot but an engineer, and I see huge value in your work.
I knew this guy. He was a member of my flying club and was known for NOT following rules. On two occasions while I was flying IFR I heard him call ATC and receive an instrument clearance of witch would have caused him to fly in IMC.(He was not instrument rated) He busted a presidential TFR. He was asked to leave our club when he found a hole to plant the nose gear of our C182 in and caused a prop strike. This resulted in a new prop, engine, LOTS of money and 8 months down time.
I am appreciative of how respectful the analysis Pilot Debrief does with these tough situations. But as an aspirational pilot, it makes me study all the harder to develop the same rigor as we would in our paid professions.
Pearson Field is in Vancouver, Washington. It’s where I’ve flown out of. It’s such a cool little place to fly BECAUSE you’re watching and intermingling with the PDX air traffic. The PDX controllers are great.
Hi Hoover, I live in Oregon near where this incident took place. At 4:45 you have some question marks where you possibly didn't understand the pilot's radio call. I believe he was saying he wanted to head to (the city of) The Dalles, and then to Bend. If his final destination was going to be Bend, his chosen route would make sense to keep from flying over the Cascade mountains at Mount Hood, or further South over Santiam Pass.
Hi Pete I listened to that 2-3 seconds of audio and concur. I’m sure he said he was planning to fly upriver to The Dalles, then turn and go to Bend. Jim M., Palo Alto CA
We are taking it to heart, but we're also acknowledging the mistakes made and committing to memory what not to do in the same situation. Some are even giving examples of better ideas. It's how we learn from others. It's a weird thing in aviation and any other risky sports: if you know all the different ways to kill yourself, you learn how to stay alive.
I find unprepared pilots like this annoying because they give the rest of us GA pilots a bad reputation by association. He was obviously unaware of the local departure recommendations, the airspace, the weather, comms, pattern procedures, and aircraft handling. He should have taken more dual instruction instead of hopping in his plane and killing himself.
I wondered how you got the crashes that you feature on Debrief. Now I know. Thanks for sharing. I really enjoy your channel and the lengths you go to describe each tragedy.
Hoover, thank you for your words for considering the families in these tragedies. (As we both know there are other Monday morning quarterbacks that aren’t so gracious). Even with 22,000 hours, I know I’m only as good as my next flight, and for all pilots sometimes it’s only by the grace of god we go. Hopefully your analysis with stick the back of some pilot’s mind should they find themselves in a similar situation
Man that is a ton of hours! Congratulations! My uncle Hal signed up for CRAF in WWII, flew 80 Mosquito missions (at night) over France and the Low Countries, then transferred to the US Navy and flew Catalinas up and down the Atlantic coast for the remainder of the war. Was in the Berlin Airlift and then flew sub patrols in the Pacific in P2 Neptunes. Had to stop flying right before 10K hours due to eyesight issues.
Wow it looks like it was what you said - he was trying to avoid the restricted airspace. This is the kind of mistake that I could easily see myself doing under the same circumstances - and in the air physics are very unforgiving. One mistake at a critical time, and it's over.
Thank you for youremapthy towards the pilot"s family! Some of us are here trying to understand what changed the trajectory of our lives similarly! Thank you for what you do!!!
That really blows. Initially, I thought you were going to say Wake Turbulence. As a experienced operator myself I can say that the ever present trap for those of us that have been doing it this long is the “fear” of being violated and how that can cause even the most experienced pilot to make bad decisions. This part of the system is broken and needs to be fixed.
I saw the whole video. It was heartbreaking. And again, this happened to a very successful person who was used to overcoming whatever obstacle presented itself.
as a non-pilot this fellow sounded unsure of himself and didnt seem confident or familiar with the airport/ airspace. he may have been quickly overwhelmed with all the decisions he had to make and was eager to get on the ground. rip sir.
He was a low time pilot, handling communications is one thing but that was a crazy approach was really risky, low, slow and banking pulling some G, stall it in this situation and it's over which it certainly was. As a pilot you must realize this a possible outcome from a non stabilized approach. Yes we all make mistakes but if you want to stay alive in aviation don't do this. Everyone will make mistakes but understand some mistakes will kill you avoid those.
Low time or not, his radio work clearly showed that he wasn’t recent, and also hadn’t spend the extra effort in preparing for this flight despite him not being recent.
Thank you, Hoover! Always a very edifying presentation. My wife and I are not pilots....but we now use the "lingedy" from your show. Today while she was driving us in bad weather I told her, "Aviate, communicate, navigate"! It worked!
This is so sad. A conscientious pilot with one spec of concentration interruption and he doesn’t go home. So sorry for their loss‼️ Thank you for your thoughtful debrief as it may save lives🙏
I wonder how many traffic pattern stalls have happened over the years, probably 100's I don't know. This seemed to be an experienced, skill full pilot who some how messed up his approach. If it can happen to someone like him, it could happen to anyone I guess.
I appreciate the content. As a low time pilot (approximately 100 hours), reviewing these tragedies, although unfortunate, contributes to our overall knowledge and understanding…helping others to avoid similar situations. I’ve just begun my instrument training. This just reinforces the mindset that was hammered into us in training that if you (the Pilot-in-Command) don’t like something on approach…go around! 🇺🇸
This was a tragic story and if anything it highlights how fragile life is and how there are always multiple factors that contribute to a mishap. If it wasn't for the bad weather or if Tom had flown his approach to Runway 08 then this might not have happened. I've included links to the Buddy Holly video and the airline pilot honeymoon crash below, as well as links to our Discord community if you want to join the discussion.
Buddy Holly's Plane Crash 👉th-cam.com/video/QQFO6isorFg/w-d-xo.html
Airline Pilot Makes Tragic Mistake on Honeymoon Flight: 👉th-cam.com/video/EbRqORwifvc/w-d-xo.html
Discord: 👉 discord.gg/JzwMp57uw4
Adam's Facebook Page 👉 facebook.com/AviationAccidentsThisDayInHistory
@@pilot-debrief Stunt flying lessons - one or two - would be fun and very effective in teaching angle of attack principles. Finding a stunt flying instructor might be a little difficult, though.
Could you now learn the physics or at least principles in a high quality air sim? Even a consumer one like the new ms flight simulator?@@riverwildcat1
@@DamplyDoo yes. It is called upset, stall recovery training. Usually fixed based because the forces on the hydraulics are not the best and are not accurate for the real G forces. Had a sim session on the A320 last weekend for work and the new mantra is: Upset or Stall, I have Control, Push, Roll, Thrust and Stabilize. In the case of the A320, usage of flaps to be considered below 20,000ft to assist in stabilizing. Kinda annoying with the yepping but good to remember for quick action
@@marcblank3036 are you aware of the crash way back when in Russia when the kid took control and messed up the auto pilot? I always wondered why they didn't just point the nose down 45 degrees, apply power and just level off
@@DamplyDoo yes. The A300 or A310. Pre fly by wire technology with no protections. I think it was a very gradual turn and recovery was perhaps not initiated on time or at low level. The AF accident near Brasil was a fine example what happens when not well trained pilots end up in the Alternate law on an A330
Your empathy and sympathy with those affected earn you a lot of respect in these tragic events.
Just yesterday my CFI said to me on final "remember, small corrections". Wonder if I'd remember that 600 hours later. Glad your video will drill it into my head. I've picked up so much watching you. Thanks so much.
Small corrections is the same in sailing. For the rudder as well as for the sail. Both can stall if you are too forceful.
Hi Mark! Still enjoying my ISL-80!
You don't remember without doing. You need to practice small corrections over and over again so that it becomes muscle memory.
A lesson from car racing is “slow hands and slow feet equals fast times” . The same probably applies to flying. Slow hands and slow feet equals long life.
everything in life is always about 1 thing i learned. the basics. sports, business, etc. if you cant do all the basic stuff in ur sleep. you need more practice.
I like how you treat all victims with respect.
As a fellow and former military pilot, you are very respectful and considerate in the videos you present.
One extremely important thing we learn about here at Pilot Debrief is how critical our angle of attack is. Our wings must remain level at slow speeds and low altitudes. Our lift plummets to zero as bank angle increases. My instructors never explained this, but it’s alarmingly obvious in many documented small plane crashes.
True! The only way he was going to square that corner was if he had a lot more airspeed...but even that would have been a risky decision. Just go around!
I would add that you can stall a wing at any speed, if you exceed the critical angle of attack, just not slow.
@@pilot-debriefthis Some may ignore this, but in the look of these videos, I hear that the pilot is not VFR certified. Is it expensive to get the certification, or does it take a ridiculous amount of time? Being able to fly in weather or clouds sounds like one of those things that's a huge plan B. Maybe because I play games, I'm just thinking of it as a skill I need to level up for my character. Lol
If you know the stall speed for your bank angles that’s a plus too.
Piper archer two is around 78 at 45 degree flaps up. 68 flaps down. Vy is 76, so it’s actually slower. Gotta watch the speed.
@@wagnertenor Even in a high speed dive, pulling out is a delicate move. If one pulls back too fast, the wing won't fly.
The way you deliver your posts, is (and always has been) so respectful and as the saying goes “you earn respect”……. Hoover, you have my respect sir, and thank you for this post and what is a sad event to cover, in the hope that it never happens again.
Peace & Love x
I really appreciate that!
@@pilot-debrief There are so many ‘TH-camrs’ trying to cash-in on aviation.
As someone professionally who deals with disasters, I loved your comment about “the family being in the room when you make the post”
So dignified and respectful x
@@6thdayblue59 Agreed!
💕👍
Hoover,
Even though I am no longer an active pilot, I really love your “Debrief” videos. I would offer one suggestion. When scripting your presentations, I recommend you refrain from using the phrase “He or she was doing what they loved.” When I was active I told all of my family and friends that if I “Bought the Farm” while flying to NEVER under ANY circumstances utter that expression on my behalf. While it was quite true that I dearly loved what I was doing, that love did not extend to ending up in a pile of mangled aluminum and/or fabric. Keep up the great work, I always look forward to your presentations.
Ken
What I really like about this channel is how respectful you are towards the pilots and how you try your best to analyse and learn from their mistakes without judging the pilots. Too many pilots out there would blame these pilots and say that they shouldn't have been in the air in the first place. Aviation is also about acknowledging the fact that everyone can make mistakes to learn from them as much as possible. Thanks for your work.
Uber is the best TH-camr.
Whats wrong with saying they shouldn't have been in the air in the first place? Hoover can't say it because softies get their panties in a bunch about anything! Lotta incompetent pilots kill innocent passengers and I bet their families are judging. This wreck was flying 101 and if you don't have it at 600 hours you never will.
This pilot sounded dazed and confused from the get-go and is fortunate not to have killed anyone on the ground or in the air.
@ProTroll_UK you may be getting Hoover mixed up with your taxi driver
@@robrobertson4964 Uber rocks!
A wince-making but perfect illustration of why my instructor used to be so forcefully critical regarding attitude and speed when turning base leg and finals.
Your being very kind about the pilot. His various confusions about basic stuff seems to speak to inexperience. Not understanding the "cut-out", not understanding "recycling", plus confusion about the weather. Plus didn't know he was still on tower frequency. It all adds up to inexperience. This Bonanza is not tolerant of inexperienced pilots. Just because he had 600 hours didn't mean he was experienced. Seems he was behind the plane before he took off.
Totally agree with you 👍
I agree. I'm not a pilot, but hope to be some day soon, and I have no desire to be the only pilot in an aircraft and have that level of confusion and uncertainty.
You sound like a savage in that airplane . THAT IS WHAT WE WANT AND NEED thank you sir KEEP FLYING !
Agreed. His phraseology was poor, didn’t seem to understand even basic questions from tower. 600 hours and this bad is alarming.
You have to know exactly what you will do IF things don't go your way. Always have a backup plan, altitudes, headings, radio frequencies, emergency procedures. Write it down or commit it to memory. Your life may depend on it. Remember, you can't pull over to the side of the road and get it together.
Nothing like waking up on a Sunday morning and tune in to Pilot Debrief...
Man! it only takes one mistake sometimes. Many have done 100 dumb mistakes and are still alive (thank goodness), some have done 5 mistakes and have died. At the end of the day, we need to strive to be great pilots every single flight.
RIP Captain.
V 35 Bonanza gets " sqishy" when slow. Sad.
More like 20 mistakes, most of which were really basic mistakes. incompetent pilot with a flight review given by a rich guy friend cfi who should be investigated. The cfi friend claiming he was an 'exceptional pilot' is very very very sus. Do many 'exceptional pilots' mess up aircraft systems, airspace, radio, basic piloting so badly? Pd doesnt call out rich white ceo pilots .. maybe the faa should.
Yup. And regardless of having 600 hours or 16,000 hours, aeronautic physics treat everyone the same. And all it takes is one mistake and physics will not bend the rules😢
@@57Jimmy Yes Indeed!
Yes, don't yank hard on the controls.
I learned to fly in the 1980s, and I had an old school flight instructor. We did lots of slow flight and stalls. To this day, I do frequent airspeed crosschecks in the pattern, and I just naturally use rudder to keep wings level near stall. My instructor would physically prevent me from using ailerons until I got it through my thick skull to use rudder instead. Primacy is a thing.
Pre 1960's airplanes ailerons were not calibrated to avoid adverse aileron yaw. But then most are and dont need that much rudder except on full power climbs AND NEAR STALLS.
Thanks for the story , I love those savages that YOU WILL LEARN FROM or else . lol hahhaha I had a old teacher kick me right in the rear because I was not listening. I was listening after that hahahha
I've been flying professionally since 1983 (8 years as a T-38 instructor, then B-52 aircraft commander then at a major airline flying a variety of planes). When non-pilot friends ask about getting their private pilot's license I ALWAYS say the same thing "get your instrument rating also!" This extra step could save your life.
100% - not only does it increase your available options (usually for the better, but sometimes not...) but remaining in the system talking to ATC helps you exercise and widen the scope of options.
Having watched this channel for a bit, never a pilot, but I’m usually left wondering why WOULDN’T someone get instrument rated? Is it a time / cost / ongoing certification issue? Genuinely curious.
@@agm65ccip Exactly....great question!? The smart ones do. If you read a lot of accident reports, most of the time it's pilot error. We called it "task saturation" and therefore the pilot gets behind the aircraft. And a lot of that is VFR rated pilots getting into the weather or trying to avoid the weather. I say spend the extra time and money to get your IFR rating, it could easily safe your life one day.
I feel the same way. His first mistake was not getting his Instrument rating. I was 48 when I got my VFR license and the next week started IFR training. Now have 870 hours and file IFR everywhere I go.
Whenever I see a crash debrief about some guy taking friends/family and he did NOT have an instrument rating, and weather kills them, I just shake my head.
Always better to get The Call than Stall.
That premise will never change.
Tried to put it better, but failed, this is more than true my friend. It will save more lives if we can get this message out.
You're such a kind soul, hoover and I enjoy all the info you bring to the table. I have rarely even found myself as a passenger on a plane, but you make things incredibly easy to understand.
The bit that the radio transcript didn't understand was "The Dalles," a town along the Columbia in Oregon.
yup, "up to The Dalles and then over to Bend". The Dalles are a town just east of Hood River on the Gorge, and Bend is south of there in central Oregon. Sounds like his destination was Bend.
Came here to say this
Same for me. It was very clear on the transmission but maybe that's because I'm from the area and know what "The Dalles" sounds like when spoken very fast.
Also the airfield is in Washington, not Oregon
@@goatboy20202 sounds like it. head out the George for a scenic climb and probably turn south once you get around Mt. Hood.
As an older pilot (56) who got his PPL later in life and only flies monthly, it's easy to forget the basics. I love this channel as it keeps all of these little details top of mind, especially during landings, which for me at least out of all the skills in flying is the one that decreases most dramatically in proficiency as you fly less.
Your age is not the issue: proficiency is about performing piloting tasks regularly to a standard, not about age! If you use a flight simulator correctly, you can keep allot, but not all, of your proficiency in between real flights.
Dude, just stop risking your life ffs. You have at least another good decade of life! I will never understand why people tempt fate like that, it's NOT worth, wtf
@@RogueReplicant Americans live almost 80 years; so, that is more than 10 years of life left. Second, piloting a plane is not inherently risky if the pilot is proficient and stays current. If you think it is too risky for you to pilot planes, then you don't fly; however, pilot risk is a function of ADM, ability, skill, proficiency, and currency, not age. Just because you might be scared to fly at middle age does not mean others share that same fear.
@@Mistamannfour "Piloting a plane is not inherently risky". You must be out of your goddamn mind, wtf. It's one of the riskiest things to do! No other activity even compares! One mistake and that's it. Btw, I wasn't talking to you, busybody, so mind your own business. tf
@@RogueReplicant shut up
I used to do instruction in a V-tail Bonanza. It was mostly check outs for pilots to rent the airplane. Among other things, we would do stalls. The airplane was very docile with the flaps up. With the flaps down, it flat out had the worse stall characteristics of any airplane I have ever flown. It would drop a wing further and faster than any other plane, and that was staying mostly coordinated. It was the only V-tail I have ever flown, so I don't know if it was just that plane, or a characteristic of the type.
As far as I understand, it's a type thing. That's how V-tails usually fall out of the sky, sudden low speed stall, rolling hard and you're done.
There is a fatal accident of a short field takeoff with flaps where a Bonanza tip stalled and rolled over, I'm not sure if this was a V tail. I mentioned earlier where I thought the Bonanza had bad tip stall characteristics.
Any V tail Bonanza pilots out there with some experience to answer this question: when does the stall warning activate on the aircraft at approach speeds, with gear down? Does it warn you well before a stall or is the Bonanza easy to go from low speed to stall without warning just with a big handful of aileron? My aircraft stall warning chirps away at approach speeds on bumpy days in turns and gets my attention!
@@davidpowell7614 V-Tail owner/pilot for many years. In my experience with my V35B and other v-tails, a properly working stall warning indicator goes off with plenty of margin in any flight configuration. On bumpy days on approaches, there can be an occasional chirp, but I have always had a correct amount of additional speed for anticipatable wind shear. About twice I had it go off enroute, including once in the clouds in the midwest in sudden bad turbulance and unusual attitude recovery (fortunately I had power pulled back pretty good and was cruising at about the top of the white arc at ~125 kias).
While practicing stalls during BFR etc, I am too much of a coward to pull the tiger's tail by giving a bunch of aileron.
T34’s will drop a wing very quickly as well. No yanking and banking at low airspeeds.
Very good point about him wanting to make the turn to the runway before entering the Class C airspace. Sometimes these pressures to conform to regulations cause us to not “fly the plane”, and it was fatal in this case.
Exactly. Some of these airports are stacked right on top of one another. But even the FAAs regulations for flying over houses people and property, don't pertain to them in the traffic pattern. You can't get in trouble for busting a class C if you're trying to make a safe stable approach to an adjacent field. Just maintain visual separation and yield the right of way to larger aircraft. Even if someone wanted to have a chat after, I'd rather explain myself than have my family get a completely different phone call.
Also it’s not like you clip the Charlie and the FAA beats you with sticks.
It’d suck and you might have a very uncomfortable conversation, but if you weren’t flying like an idiot and just tell the truth “I was having a little trouble getting lined up due to some unexpected weather and went a little long on the base, sorry,” you’ll get out the other side fine.
@@jamesordwayultralightpilot His base turn was right around where I start pulling the power out to start my descent from pattern altitude. It was VERY early even with the Portland airspace up ahead. But if you're not familiar with the Pearson airspace, it can feel pretty cramped. There's also some hills that stack up as you fly your downwind leg so as you turn base, you're only about 4-500 feel AGL before they fall off towards the river. It can definitely add to the cramped feeling until you've done it a couple of times.
I've never been a pilot,. In fact, heights make me dizzy. But, now at the age of 77, I'm addicted to Pilot Debrief. So professionally done, and so carefully explained in laymen's terms. If I had to do it over again, I would work on my height issues and go for my pilot's licence. Thank you, Hoover!!
Fear of heights and fear of flying are two different phobias not really related.
Speed, bank angle, angle of attack -
Every pilot MUST know their relationship.
Is this not taught anymore in the US? The problem is that people forget this correlation on landing with flaps out
@@marcblank3036the problem, in my opinion, is that some instructors still teach pitch for airspeed and power for altitude. I have a feeling that this pilot never added power in that turn, because he wasn’t taught to use power for speed.
@@rtbrtb_dutchy4183 is possible but the loadfactor formula must have been discussed. And looking at the crash photo I am not sure of the flap position. It was a very tight circuit and as you state it must have been performed at a high bank angle, low power
@@marcblank3036there taught this but once they get their ticket they rarely practice maneuvering the plane. I know a guy who turns on his autopilot upwind and flys the entire flight with the bug. Consequently every landing is a controlled crash, think go arounds, side loading the gear and near overruns.. YET a friend flight instructor will pencil whip a BFR..for a lunch. This guy is dangerous, yet he is commercial rated!!,
@@judd_s5643 sad to hear. I was taught in the US, Prescott, Arizona. I once made a very tight turn at low level and my instructor told me I had a lot of women to meet in my life and not do that again. These days I fly the A320, a lazy man's airplane in normal mode. But, full of surprises for poorly trained pilots in alternate or direct law. Stall protection etc at lower level or non existent
That top down view of his turn on final is unimaginable for a pilot. Maybe in a kitfox with low stall speed. But that maneuvering is insane.
Textbook get there-itis it can happen at any time.
I'm always stunned when the crash is something that even I can understand violates basic flight physics (I'm not a pilot): too low, too slow, too steep a turn. Even video games teach you planes can't do this. I wonder why he tried :(
Glad you see the obvious thing while pd endlessly praises and excuses this supposed;y "exceptional pilot." This whole flight was a shitshow snd the cfi friend who signed off his flight review needs an faa flashlight up his backside.
@@ac583 It's the flight equivalent of a freeway inter-change where someone swerves across six lanes of traffic to try to make his off-ramp too late. Except instead of hitting 5 other cars, he stalls at 40 feet and 80 mph. The impossible turn.
@@danepatterson8107 panic--you can hear in his conversation he is already iffy--he really did not understand a lot of things going on-it is easy in simulators to duplicate what happened and why every border line people need to use-video games are good too!!!
With all the clouds, rain, fog in general around Portland it seems that getting an IFR rating is really essential
Between July and September, the weather is hot, dry and usually severe clear. A lot of weekend flyers around here never bothered with instrument ratings.
Ol’ Tom was an important, big deal at his fishing company. The hard fought and earned experience, radio knowledge and etiquette etc., clearly didn’t apply to the guy.
Old, well of guys getting into the flying game late in life ends poorly.
Rinse wash repeat.
Weather was not an issue. Many IFR pilots have crashed due low altitude maneuvering errors UNDER THE CLOUDS.. like this one..
At 4:47, the place he's heading to, which the transcriber missed, is The Dalles ("the DALLS"), about 75 miles east of Portland.
Just what I was going to say. It's very clear if you know the area. Obviously the transcriber did not.
Hoover, you always emphasize the humanity of those involved in the incidents you debrief. That tells us all how you respect all members of the pilot community.
Much respect on the aspect of not saying anything you wouldn't say to the families face. That's how I treat my comments or anything I do on social media in general. Always have and will. 👍
You are not only producing informative, entertaining videos, you are saving lives, and making better pilots everywhere.
That used to be our home airport. It is a short runway because of a long displaced threshold for runway 26. The area proceeding the displaced threshold is over 100 feet higher in altitude and there is a Fred Meyer store at the edge of that. I can't understand why he cut the approach so closely. There is a field to your right when you are on a right down when for runway 26. You turn base at that field and actually head in the direction of PDX. When you come to the Fred Meyer store off to your right with that field below you you turn final. I even turn base further out than the blue line normal approach, in line with the triangular field to the right, at which point I turn final. You must be on a stabilized approach to make sure that you clear the terrain and your aiming point needs to be the junction of the displaced threshold with the rest of the runway. Given the terrain differences there is no way the approach he made could have been successful. He did not have an instrument rating and there was concern about weather. IFR weather is very common in that area. Luckily, the area rarely gets thunderstorms. So for the most part the IFR weather is very conducive to IFR operations and there is quite a lot of IFR training that goes on there, mostly out of KSPB and KHIO.
The airspace there is tricky and as you mentioned Portland tower acts as an advisory frequency. Generally you just stay under 1100 feet until you are out of the cut out and head toward Vancouver Lake. If you wish to go east it is quite easy to then turn right, head toward the Battleground VOR and stay under the class Charlie to the North and then connect with the river into the Gorge and Eastward. In good weather I would always take that route North and then Eastward, which takes you near the class delta of Troutdale (KTTD). If there were any clouds and it looked concerning, I always filed an IFR flight plan. Another rule of thumb, never fly Eastward through the Gorge in poor visibility. There are wires and bridges that cross the Gorge and the only safe way to fly Eastward in low visibility is on an instrument flight plan well above those obstructions. An interesting fact is that Pearson Field is the oldest continuously operating airfield in the Pacific Northwest and one of the two oldest continuously operating airfields in the United States. I even had an engine out there departing to the West and was able to squeak it down on 08.
I wonder if there were clouds to his East that forced him to try to make that short approach. At any rate with the high terrain at the 26 end of the runway it could never have been successful. Maybe in a Piper cub but not in a Bonanza or in my 182. An option would have been to declare an emergency and land at the huge PDX Airport. This is a very sad event. I have many Lamiglas fly rods that I purchased at their factory and store in Woodland Washington. What you may not know is that it is the same town where the accident you covered occurred at the Woodland airport in which the overloaded Mooney tried to take off and smacked into a berm (N97119 I believe). There is good fishing in the Lewis River there for salmon and steelhead. I have flown into that airport as well multiple times for fishing but only lightly loaded with one friend, half tanks and light gear. Thanks Hoover for the debrief. RIP and condolences to the family. It is a tight knit flying community at Pearson Field and this will be felt.
There is no excuse to wait until you are so close to the runway before starting the final turn. But it is a very common pilot error. You should not go by ground objects due winds and your speed can make it a different time when to turn to final. That is a bad habit, not all airports have the same ground objects at the beginning of runways. Only stupid CFI's teach like that.
O😊
Roger - read your comment and dang , i certainly agree . A lot of very good comments on this -
Thanks you guys - Small adjustments on the pattern flight . Pay extremely close attention to
All you are doing in flight ! Especially , when you are very close to the ground ! Damn , fellers -
Concentration is KEY !!! 😳
Blue Line normal approach? Do you use the Blue Line on Vglide speed DMMS on airspeed indicator? My 1990's CFI had that line on all the 5 airplanes he taught. His students were the only ones flying when winds were tough. LOL..
I think it's easy to see where the mistake is. I would personally never flown slower than 90 knots in that plane while maneuvering. People who don't watch the airspeed can lose control.
I dont slow down below 90 until I am established on finals (no turns below 90) , 80 over the threshold 70 touchdown
It's amazing how the smallest actions have the biggest consequences. RIP 🙏...
Almost every major tragedy in my life was caused by one stupid moment of inattentiveness. One moment can change lifetimes
It’s all one happening
I'm afraid it's usually more about a lack of timely action rather than the smallest actions
I'm not a pilot but I enjoy learning about flying. That said, I wanted to say that I appreciate your tact and sympathy as you tackle the tough subject matter of flight mishaps. Thanks for your hard work and thoughtful approach.
Though I’m not a pilot, a lifelong aviation enthusiast. My late Father instilled the love of airplanes in me (he flew Cubs in the late 40s.) This has become one of my channels. Thanks Hoover.
One thing that will keep many VFR pilots alive, if your gut says the weather might be a factor it already is, save the flight for another day.
Amen!
@pilot-debrief Thank you for remembering that the families might see this and being compassionate and respectful towards them.
A lot of channels seem to forget that human element along with being respectful and make things worse for the families.
I have lost 5 of my immediate family members in different situations and sometimes I will carry something someone may mistakenly or intentionally say for years. I really appreciate you.
Last week I was flying in Amsterdam TMA, with Flight information on the Amsterdam Info frequency.
I was flying towards, but as per airspace restrictions, under the active 06 Approach path, and the ATC lady informed me to be aware of wake turbulence of airliners on the 06 ILS.
As it happened I saw a B787 ahead of me passing from left to right, a few hundred feet higher than I was flying, so I decided to make a 360 before continuing crossing below the ILS approach path. I think it was really neat for the ATC to pro-actively inform me.
Kind of odd that a 600+ hour pilot was unfamiliar with the term "recycle your transponder"...
I think he sounded confused during many of his ATC interactions. Maybe some neurological event like a TIA or ?? His confusion about "the gorge" was especially troubling, That exchange would occur on nearly every flight from his field.
I don’t find it that odd, honestly. Keep in mind that, in relative terms, a 600hr pilot is still an exceptionally low time pilot. I went to give a 1000hr guy a BFR in his own C182 years ago, and he had zero clue how the constant speed prop in his own airplane worked.
He's a boomer. They have trouble with technology and picking up new phrases. If it's something they've never heard before, it's typically a 20 second turnaround on them getting up to speed
@@JJM2222painting pretty broad paint strokes there.
@@JJM2222I resemble that remark 😂😂
You have to fly the airplane FIRST. From the way he sounded talking to the tower, he didn't have his act together. He also made a comment about getting above the weather. As a VFR pilot, that is never a good idea, because once you're above it, at some point you are going to have to get back down. That wasn't a factor in the crash, but it was a sign that his mindset was not right. Always have an exit strategy in every situation. He put himself in a situation mentally that was the reason for this tragedy.
Yes it seemed like he was disoriented at to his overall situation and strategy.
Almost tunnel vision toward the end where he had perfect visibility but couldn't snap himself out of the stressful situation he just flew through. They always say, never stop flying the plane. He already had his seat belt unbuckled before he got to the downwind.
I’m not a pilot, but from the outset it didn’t sound like he was ahead of his plane. RIP to the pilot and condolences to the family.
Agree, i noticed immediately he sounded a bit overconfident and stressed. RIP 🙏
I agree with your reply and the other replies here. There's not a lot more to add other than it seems a lot of people are attempting to fly without basic aviation skills. As Hoover says, aviate. This accident, along with many others on this channel, indicates that many pilots are not sensitive to how airplanes actually fly. That is, the sound and feel an airplane makes when it's close to or in a stall. Or also, the likelihood of a stall when banking steeply at a low airspeed. It seems people are able to pass their check ride without having the necessary skills. I don't want to be disrespectful, but are people thinking this through sufficiently? I'm a pilot and I can imagine mistakes that I could make that would be fatal, but this sort of stall is not one of them.
I don't understand why anyone would take the time to learn to become a proficient pilot and then NOT become instrument rated.
He was not proficient, his knowledge of his own airplane, the weather, not even knowing the local language for “the cut” at his home airplane, radio work was not good. No way anyone would reasonably call the guy proficient.
totally agree. The next thing after your PPL needs to be more instrument training and your rating. Too many deaths result from poor weather and poor decisions because of pilots lacking that experience.
He was clearly not proficient tho. Current is not proficient.
It's expensive and will most likely take more hours instruction than primary instruction. Unless you can take a few weeks off work, it could take forever. I'm sure there are prodigies that can do it a few weekends between their day job, but I'm not one of them.
Doubtful money was the issue in this case. Much more likely to be 'available free time', or, frankly, 'just didn't want to'. Lots of pilots don't get their instrument rating, and he was one of them.
Low altitude stalls are nearly impossible to recover from. This just goes to show how a bunch of little things can add up to a big problem. RIP Tom
My POH says I can recover within 250 with normal stall recovery. And while true you still have to add in the time it takes to realize you are in a stall to start the recovery to begin with.
@@MaxSterling01 If you hear the stall warning horn and you're 200 feet AGL, you're in big trouble. From the video, it looked like he might have even been lower than that.
All of the big planes are required to fly a stabilized approach. This cowboy flying just isn't smart - even if you've managed to get the plane on the ground 100 times before.
@@TheMotoRockerswhat does stabilized approach mean in this context?
@@briantoplessbar4685 Heading, speed and descent are all set up long before landing. Notice how you never see a jet turning base for final? It’s because they’re mandated to use a stabilized approach.
Loved the B-1 Live yesterday and another great Pilot Debrief. Thanks Hoover 🙏🏼
Your ability to explain a complicated theory without judgement or attitude is impressive. TU. 😊
Hoover, your channel is exceptional. Thank you for sharing your passion, experience, knowledge, and compassion for the very real people involved in these hard lessons of human factors.
I’m a retired USAF pilot and current professional aviator myself-I am constantly teaching myself these lessons and share them with my fellow aviation professionals. The hardest part is these errors are remarkably consistent in a relatively small corner of aviation, but the most significant-maintaining aircraft control.
Far too many consider this basic element of flying a given while being distracted by everything else … especially when weather, automation, ATC, navigating, and just the act of getting the mission done, even when it doesn’t make sense to continue.
These are sadly, entirely avoidable.
He sounded like a sweet man. 🥲 RIP.
The couple in the S35 was tragic, the pilot was over confident in a situation he was not prepared for. Very sad.
Smart and ethical approach. I think one of my biggest mistakes is indeed saying things I wouldn't say to people's faces.. thank you for the reminder.
You know what I like best about these videos, apart from being interesting and well presented, is that you can apply the lessons learned in nearly every situation in life. To be honest with yourself and your abilities, speak up if you think something isn't right, ask for help if you need it.. don't be too egotistical.. great advice for life in general. Keep up the great work!
You want to make that turn in a cub, you will "probably" pull it off, but a turn like that in a V tail Bonanza is akin to "the impossible turn".
You cannot fly that plane like a cub or a kitfox. This is the exact reason that stabilized approachs are so important.
I get nervous every time I see pilots at my local uncontrolled airport making extremely tight turns to final, I have no desire to be an eyewitness and telling a reporter what I saw.
The cameraman always survives!
I agree completely, we don't know if he often would try risky maneuvers but this was a very risky maneuver in this aircraft type. Long ago Dad had a Helio Courier and he could safely fly a approach like this because the wing had leading edge slats that made the wing virtually stall proof.
The runway is only 3275ft with a 762ft displaced threshold and downtown Vancouver is directly west of the end of the strip. It looks like his base leg was right at the end of the displaced threshold. Even if he got the nose around, it seems very unlikely that it was going to get stabilized and landed. I won't even practice PO 180s on runway 26, it's just too cramped. Your final leg is over a Kroger parking lot, down a hill, over some trees. I still get squirrely just flying a normal pattern in there occasionally.
@@Shmeeps_phd Yeah it seems just like the airport in Burley Idaho, Urban sprawl happens, they start building around an existing airport that was isolated 50 years ago, and take no consideration for the safety of the public or the pilots.
Landing and takeoffs are the most dangerous phases of flight so let's put houses and businesses right off both ends of the runways so that people can complain about the noise and danger from the airport that was there before the houses.
Personally I fly for fun and don't like using GA airports that fall under Class B or C airspace with tiny corridors and cutouts in really busy airspace like Portland or LA, it's just too stress inducing.
The technical challenge can be fun when you plan for it and it's not LAX, but sequencing in between jets that land faster than my top speed and doing 3-4 go arounds because I'm about to be a hood ornament on a 737 is not really relaxing. But it does exercise your sphincter.
What I notice are the common factors are: weather or lack of experience with the aircraft or its equipment. For me, if weather is questionable, I ain’t flying. And if I don’t know the aircraft from spinner to tail, I’m not flying it as a PIC.
I found this channel watching those documentaries about comercial flights. Now I watch your videos about mostly small plane crashes. The way you break it down is the best. And the emotion you put into it bc you genuinely care and want people to learn is obvious.
Age is a thing. My dad (90) and me (58) flying all our life. Both tested planes etc etc. We have the experience also outside the box.
We both have thousand multi of hours. But we did agree that hours do not matter. It’s proficiency and the realisation when getting older age is the biggest influence of failing.
My dad handed in his license at 62 and me at 55. No point to prove our selfs any further.
We have the T and concluded “ on the top of success we stop.”
Getting over 60, just think, your not the quickest nor the wisest controlling a plane.
Don’t make your hobby into an experiment. Just stop when it was fun.
Very wise. American culture has an issue with admitting age. Flying takes acuity on physical and mental levels. I like how you said it's not just about the hours.
Age 69, flying for 48 years, mei for 34 years and current, safer now than when 30 years old ..it's about proficiency, not about age, however, the mind and body needs to work in unity. Would you give up driving at 55 or 62? Maybe think about giving up ifr as one gets older and less confident. Every case is different. One size does not fit all.
@@RonGlasgow-s7l it’s better to fly ifr dan VFR if not proficient enough. But with lots of respect your an old pilot not an bold pilot and that makes the difference
@@MonkPetite what about all of those vfr rated only pilots of all ages...how does their proficiency or lack of , fit into the proficiency equation? In other words, can they be deemed proficient if they never were rated ifr?
@ the problem is not VFR or IFR rated.
I have seen old guys that could only fly IFR and where very poor in VFR skills.
Time build is also no factor. I know guys that fly jets for 15000 plus and can’t fly a cessna at all.
One guy is a falcon driver but he resent crashed a tiger moth. Overconfident he was but not proficient.
That’s where training comes in. Keep up the training. VFR , IFR upset manoeuvres..
But the big problem is that a VFR certificate does not demand you to practice like in IFR. What is basically a small flaw in the regulations. Lets call those VFR pilots hobby pilots as they fly maybe once every two weeks or so. That’s no proficiency build at all.
Even more, the recreational certified pilot is a non practice pilot. They practising an experiment and that often in a experimental rig.
If I were a family member I would be thankful for a compassionate debrief from your channel. I would also hope my loved one died not un vein but this debrief helps his larger aviation family. So sad for his family and friends 🙏
Your compassion is excellent. I'm not really a plane addict but my dad was so i know all the names of them, but I absolutely do love the old prop liner's and early jets like the comet boing 707 , 727 etc . My first plane i flew in was a Vickers Viscount Cambrian airways from Manchester airport UK.. and my favourite is the l1011 TriStar. Thanks for a very detailed and very very interesting channel hoover 💯🤟
That he wasnt familiar with the cutout speaks volumes.
Agreed.
One thing I noticed and doesnt apply only to aviation but just communication in general, ATC asked he was he going through the cutout, a request for intentions. The reply was Do you want me to go through the cutout? There were a couple of other places in the conversation where they didnt seem to be precisely communicating.
2:11 "Doctor Killer"
My dad, a medical doctor, was killed piloting a Beechcraft Bonanza in 1972. Was not a "V" tail, however
sorry to hear that mate
Such class with these videos. We're all learning here, pilots or otherwise. Appreciate you, Sir
Thank you for doing these videos. It's so important to study accidents and learn from them. It's always humbling to see a good pilot make one mistake that costs them their lives. I try to fly conservatively and with a large margin of error, but there's always cases like these where it takes one impulse decision to change everything.
Why is there no mainstream news outlet in the US reporting the news with an attitude like this? Calm, compassionate, informative, focused on the facts and as little bias as possible.
Because Mainstream Media has an agenda to adhere to.
Because Orange Man Bad.
Because it doesn't help push the world narrative and makes the bankers who own all of media no money from it.
Welcome to modern media amplified.
@@Plutogalaxybecause this guy who isn't a professional journalist makes them look amateur in comparison. It's a valid observation
Agreed. However, he has the benefit of the factual data from completed investigations. News outlets, on the other hand, report as it happens and often speculate. Just like the rest of us.
dang man good job on analyzing all the data here! I feel for this pilot the only explainable thing is he didnt want to cause an accident with an airliner. poor guy was likely just trying to keep others safe.
Those are the “Doctor Killer” and as a kid growing up, my family dentist added to this reputation. He had two dental practices in two different towns. He routinely flew himself and his medical staff back-and-forth. One day he crashed and killed himself and his entire office staff.
My sister’s best friend was scheduled to be his first patient the next day. We saw her on a bike and so my mother stopped our car to say hi to her. She was in a rush to get to her dental appointment. We knew that she used the same dentist as us and we broke the bad news to her that it was pointless for to continue to her appointment because the dentist died on the evening prior.
How far were the practices apart? Just curious. I know a couple pilots that fly to destinations just because they think it impresses people. You can drive to many of the destinations in less time than navigating airports.
@@giggiddy It's kind of irrelevant whether he intended to impress people.
OMG, I feel so bad for you and your sister's best-friend. I just lost my dentist to a brain aneurysm or something on the brain that gave way. (Tumor or other), unbeknownst to him. He has an amazing practice and he had every certification known to General and corrective dentistry and reconstruction accidents. We lost a good one and we can be taken out by a plane crash or a little gremlin sitting up in your head ready to give way. Take every day as if it's your last when you are post-50 years old., I've seen this way too much (unknown heart, unknown brain, unknown advanced cancer ailments snuffing away good people every month/week. It's heartbreaking. I can't imagine losing your dentist, that is until I just did.
@@dabneyoffermein595 I am sorry for your loss.
@@donmoore7785but it is relevant. Your attitude in general and in specific situations can become a live or die situation.
I've read accident accounts where there was a totally cavalier attitude regs, ratings, CGs, gross weight, I'm in charge nobody is going to tell me until they are in up to their collective noses yelling, "mayday,mayday, mayday".
Where your brain goes your ass has got to follow.
Hoover, im looking forward to hearing your debrief on the Brazilian crash. 🙏
I am not going to comment on this mishap specifically. However, if you are going to own your own plane, especially a high performance plane like a Bonanza, you need your instrument rating. When you buy a plane you want to use that plane. You want to travel and carry passengers, and go places, and you are going to have to get back. All these things put pressure as pilot in your decision making process.
It doesn't take much weather to push a pilot into uncomfortable, even dangerous situations, and a high performance aircraft will make those decisions have to come faster. When traveling in a high performance aircraft you can travel a great distance and that means you can encounter a lot of weather. So unless you just like flying around the pea patch then you need to get your instrument rating and treat flying as a professional endeavor.
If this gentleman would have had a instrument rating he would have known that once he made two way communication with the controller he was cleared into the class C airspace. He would have been comfortable interacting with the controller. And when the weather was a little worse than expected he could have asked for a pop up clearance and been on his merry way. He would have been used to multi-tasking, communicating, and not trying to avoid clouds and the ground while flying at a 140 knots. Again, I am not addressing this specific incident but is for the pilots who own there own planes and want to use it for travel. Because they are the ones who are very likely to get into a High Risk/Low Frequency situation. And that is the most dangerous area to be in.
Two way comms (tail number identified) with class C controller is PPL knowledge. IFR wouldn’t of made a difference except undisturbed climb out.
@@mowtivatedmechanic1172 If he had a IFR rating he would never had had to return.
He probably was terrified of busting the class C airspace, the boundary line went right past the highway. And as you say, if he was familiar with IFR procedures it would have been a non-issue. Or if he was not stressed or staying ahead of the plane, fly the plane first, do a missed approach, bust the class C in a stabilized climbing turn, say intentions to ATC, or declare an emergency, and work it out later on the ground if he has to call someone. Instead, he gave up control of his airplane and did a tip stall, which this aircraft has been evident for in several accidents.
@@bernieschiff5919 A stabilized pattern with a stabilized approach would have gone a long way. Fly it by the numbers.
Not trying to be antagonistic but when you say things like
"own there own planes"
You really undermine your own credibility. Unless you are ESL there is no excuse for not knowing what the word "there" means.
People notice that and think "gee this person should probably master 2nd grade grammar before he goes around giving aviation advice."
O.o - Pearson Field is in Washington state - in Vancouver, across the Columbia river from Portland.
With a great museum. I'm just pleased he knows how to pronounce Oregon!
Your explanations are clear and concise as always, Hoover.
Hi Hoover!
Thank you for your technically correct, considerate explanations of the tragic causes in all your videos.
You're doing a great job, with your heart in the right place!
My preference is "non-towered" vs "uncontrolled" airports. Love your work.
For awhile the AOPA was pushing us to call them “pilot controlled” airports but that effort seemed to have faded away quickly.
Excellent learning points and really admire how respectful you are to the deceased pilot and his family. Class act!
Getting the transponder back to 1200 is the last thing I would worry about. He had too many distractions going on.
Young man , I am so happy I found you a few weeks ago. I subscribed and have been catching up with your older work. I have parkinsons and channels like yours give me something to look forward to. Hoover thank you for your hard work
So sad, my prayers are with the family and friends of Tom, thank you again Hoover for your debrief on this tragedy.
You’re welcome
I'm no pilot but enjoy your channel as I find it interesting. Just watched your older video entitled "My Biggest Mistake!". You spoke at one point about haters and I think you quite possibly, and most likely, could be saving lives. Ignore the negative as I think your work is valuable. Like I said I'm no pilot but an engineer, and I see huge value in your work.
I knew this guy. He was a member of my flying club and was known for NOT following rules. On two occasions while I was flying IFR I heard him call ATC and receive an instrument clearance of witch would have caused him to fly in IMC.(He was not instrument rated) He busted a presidential TFR. He was asked to leave our club when he found a hole to plant the nose gear of our C182 in and caused a prop strike. This resulted in a new prop, engine, LOTS of money and 8 months down time.
This only confirms what I was inclined to believe about this pilot's abilities. I think there were some common sense issues at play as well.
Thanks for the back story.
I am appreciative of how respectful the analysis Pilot Debrief does with these tough situations. But as an aspirational pilot, it makes me study all the harder to develop the same rigor as we would in our paid professions.
Pearson Field is in Vancouver, Washington. It’s where I’ve flown out of. It’s such a cool little place to fly BECAUSE you’re watching and intermingling with the PDX air traffic. The PDX controllers are great.
I love your compassion. Keep up the top notch work.
Hi Hoover, I live in Oregon near where this incident took place. At 4:45 you have some question marks where you possibly didn't understand the pilot's radio call. I believe he was saying he wanted to head to (the city of) The Dalles, and then to Bend. If his final destination was going to be Bend, his chosen route would make sense to keep from flying over the Cascade mountains at Mount Hood, or further South over Santiam Pass.
Hi Pete I listened to that 2-3 seconds of audio and concur. I’m sure he said he was planning to fly upriver to The Dalles, then turn and go to Bend. Jim M., Palo Alto CA
You are very respectful to everyone in your videos and your videos are very informative and interesting, as well as well done!!
Hoover you are a treasure to aviation. Thank you for doing this difficult work.
Thank you Hoover for your tireless research and simple explanation. You've pointed out many red flags to watch out for.
We all make mistakes. I wish more people took that to heart.
This is why I should never fly. I am prone to making mistakes and oversights.
We are taking it to heart, but we're also acknowledging the mistakes made and committing to memory what not to do in the same situation. Some are even giving examples of better ideas. It's how we learn from others. It's a weird thing in aviation and any other risky sports: if you know all the different ways to kill yourself, you learn how to stay alive.
Hoover - I appreciate your videos and that you are respectful of the families involved. Keep up the good debriefings,
I find unprepared pilots like this annoying because they give the rest of us GA pilots a bad reputation by association. He was obviously unaware of the local departure recommendations, the airspace, the weather, comms, pattern procedures, and aircraft handling.
He should have taken more dual instruction instead of hopping in his plane and killing himself.
Totally agree; Pilot seemed rather unprepared for what he was engaged with.
Well, I’m sure he won’t do it again! 🙄
Yep. Harsh but true
I wondered how you got the crashes that you feature on Debrief. Now I know. Thanks for sharing. I really enjoy your channel and the lengths you go to describe each tragedy.
Hoover, thank you for your words for considering the families in these tragedies. (As we both know there are other Monday morning quarterbacks that aren’t so gracious).
Even with 22,000 hours, I know I’m only as good as my next flight, and for all pilots sometimes it’s only by the grace of god we go.
Hopefully your analysis with stick the back of some pilot’s mind should they find themselves in a similar situation
Man that is a ton of hours! Congratulations! My uncle Hal signed up for CRAF in WWII, flew 80 Mosquito missions (at night) over France and the Low Countries, then transferred to the US Navy and flew Catalinas up and down the Atlantic coast for the remainder of the war. Was in the Berlin Airlift and then flew sub patrols in the Pacific in P2 Neptunes. Had to stop flying right before 10K hours due to eyesight issues.
Another very informative, professional and educational Pilot Debrief, Hoover. You’re the best.
Wow it looks like it was what you said - he was trying to avoid the restricted airspace. This is the kind of mistake that I could easily see myself doing under the same circumstances - and in the air physics are very unforgiving. One mistake at a critical time, and it's over.
It’s not restricted airspace. That’s the sad part.
Very respectful video Hoover. Your videos always convey the respect and emotion necessary.
Dang this channel blew up. 😳. Congrats 👏. You earned it 💯 ✌️
Thank you for youremapthy towards the pilot"s family!
Some of us are here trying to understand what changed the trajectory of our lives similarly! Thank you for what you do!!!
I'm sorry, but the pilot sounded very confused. Tragic.
Don’t apologize.
This ‘pilot’ Tom had absolutely no right being in that aircraft. Let alone flying by his lonesome.
I agree. Despite his hours it was clear he was not proficient. Sorry but it applies to pilots same as drivers.
The pilot was technically a big dummy.
That really blows. Initially, I thought you were going to say Wake Turbulence. As a experienced operator myself I can say that the ever present trap for those of us that have been doing it this long is the “fear” of being violated and how that can cause even the most experienced pilot to make bad decisions. This part of the system is broken and needs to be fixed.
I saw the whole video. It was heartbreaking. And again, this happened to a very successful person who was used to overcoming whatever obstacle presented itself.
Making fishing rods and flying an aircraft are two very different things. Success in one does not translate to success in the other.
Another factual report that provides education as well as entertainment. Thank you!
as a non-pilot this fellow sounded unsure of himself and didnt seem confident or familiar with the airport/ airspace. he may have been quickly overwhelmed with all the decisions he had to make and was eager to get on the ground. rip sir.
He was a low time pilot, handling communications is one thing but that was a crazy approach was really risky, low, slow and banking pulling some G, stall it in this situation and it's over which it certainly was. As a pilot you must realize this a possible outcome from a non stabilized approach. Yes we all make mistakes but if you want to stay alive in aviation don't do this. Everyone will make mistakes but understand some mistakes will kill you avoid those.
Low time or not, his radio work clearly showed that he wasn’t recent, and also hadn’t spend the extra effort in preparing for this flight despite him not being recent.
@@dwaynemcallister7231"The aircraft is always looking for ways to kill its pilots" is what I was taught·.
I heard the expression on another aviation channel, "Don't be in a hurry to die."
Thank you, Hoover! Always a very edifying presentation. My wife and I are not pilots....but we now use the "lingedy" from your show. Today while she was driving us in bad weather I told her, "Aviate, communicate, navigate"! It worked!
This is so sad. A conscientious pilot with one spec of concentration interruption and he doesn’t go home. So sorry for their loss‼️ Thank you for your thoughtful debrief as it may save lives🙏
I wonder how many traffic pattern stalls have happened over the years, probably 100's I don't know. This seemed to be an experienced, skill full pilot who some how messed up his approach. If it can happen to someone like him, it could happen to anyone I guess.
Two just happened at Oshkosh, one of them had fatalities.
I appreciate the content. As a low time pilot (approximately 100 hours), reviewing these tragedies, although unfortunate, contributes to our overall knowledge and understanding…helping others to avoid similar situations. I’ve just begun my instrument training. This just reinforces the mindset that was hammered into us in training that if you (the Pilot-in-Command) don’t like something on approach…go around! 🇺🇸
Who else keeps checking here for the debrief for yesterday's tragic crash in Brazil?
Much better than yesterday. Great report where you explain everything for everyone.