I have 2 pneumatic framing nailers (Dewalt and Ridgid) with 21-degrees and they both work well. Maybe one jam before lunch and one jam after lunch. Also have 2 cordless nailers (Dewalt) at 30 degress and they are a headache. The jam clearing lever on top of the nailer that forces the 'hammer' to slide rearward reminds me of an M249 SAW (Squad Automatic Weapon) bolt slamming forward with no "bang"...so slow, heavy and no excitement of the expected work to be sent off.
I already have the Milwaukee 21 degree and it works for me, I also have a senco pneumatic 21 degree, I think the nails may be more affordable and available in my area Northern California.
Both are really good for door stops. These charged air guns can not evolve beyond what they are right now. Toooo heavy, batteries only last 800 shots. Technology is shared among many other brands. So none are better than each other, it only comes down to price and how much brain washing the companies want to spend. Eg; influencers with high views. Anyone that really knows the building game knows that Paslode make the best nails.
I purchased a 21 degree nailer with the 30 degree extension. Easy to switch them around. I actually had both 21 and 30 degree because of a promotion. When I tried to swap the 21 degree onto the 30 degree there was a little notch that actually got in the way. But when swapping the 30 degree to the 21 degree that notch isn't in the way. There are videos on how to remove that notch to fit it that way but since they are the same price its easier to buy the 21 degree as your main gun and swap it to 30 degrees if you want the ability to have both!
@@LuisRobles-do2ph I've only used the 30 degree extension a handful of times but haven't had any issues with the nailer. I usually use the 21 degree because I need the full heads in most cases due to codes, but it is nice to use the 30 degree when I can because it holds a lot more nails due to it being clipped head 30 degree nail strips but its also an extension so its larger than the original nail clips lol.
I have both but prefer the 21° due to it being collated with plastic and not susceptible to water damage. Did I mention that I live in the Pacific Northwest? Lol
Been reading most of the responses, and well, I just buy and own them ALL.. I have the Paslode (2012 long battery model) in 30*, Bostich 28*WW (wire-weld) Low Profile, Bostich gas powered 28*WW and the Milwaukee 30* M18. I've NEVER like the plastic collated nails, not for the dingle-berries left behind, but for the fact that I had a piece of that "shrapnel" hit me in the eye once and THAT was no BUENO!! Also, the 28+ degree nailers allow you to "lay" down a 3-1/4" or 3-1/2" when doubling 2x material without the point protruding through the "inside" doubler," thereby reducing the chance of you gouging a finger or cutting a lift strap when lifting or setting wall sections. I have OLD 21* Ridgid, Hitachi and Grip-Rite nailers.. I reserve those for posterity or when I have the occasional West-Coaster show up and he seems confused and baffled about what to do out here in the Northeast!! I then send him down to the local hardware store and wish him LUCK finding his beloved 21* nails.. If he finds them, I pay for the nails AND his time, if he doesn't find them, well, I lost a guy for about 2 hrs that day.. As far as clipped, full-round or offset-full-round, there is VERY minimal difference in holding power, So long as they aren't over-driven. In cases when the Code Officer "whines" about clipped/offset heads, we adjust the nailing schedule closer, nailing every 4" vs 6" on perimeter an 12" vs 16" in the "field". Nails should NEVER be set no more than the thickness of the head below the surface of the wood, the only exception being sheet goods, when NO amount of under-flush is acceptable. In that case, a slightly proud nail is preferred, and then "set" with a final blow of a smooth faced hammer.
As a contractor worker I own both since sometimes the nails on the jobsite is 21 degrees and hardware store is 1 hr away. Normally we use 30 degree exterior and interior nails with 2 sizes. When using the nailers always check the front Screws since the get loose after using the nailers after maybe a month. It causes Miss fire not Driving them all the way. After you tighten a screws if you don't lose any then the nailers work fine. I beening using them since they came out. Something if nail broke off 21 degree you need to cut with a Razor knife so no issue fireing nails. The old 30 degree will be wire held instead of paper.
Actually, the information on Milwaukee's site says that the 30° shank diameter is .113-.131 and the 21° is .113-.148. This was the deciding factor for me in choosing the 21°.
@@Cavett24 I do not believe anyone sell .148" 30° nails. Most framing requirements call for .131" nail. Hanger nails used in positive placement nailers is where .148" is common.
That’s pretty fascinating. I’ve seen the different types of nails, and was looking on the labels to try to determine what angle they were all at. I figured it would be marked somewhere, but your explanation of them being held together with plastic or paper makes it obvious now
I really like Milwaukee's products, but one thing to note from this video: Please be aware that Milwaukee's website states that the 21 degree nailer can handle nail shank diameters ranging from 0.131 to 0.148, whereas the 30 degree nailer can handle nail shank diameters of 0.113 to 0.131. This is a big difference structurally. The list below shows what diameters correspond with what type of common nails as well as their baseline lateral (shear) design values for fastening two pieces of 1-1/2" SPF together (like a double top plate or multi-ply header connection): 0.113 = ~5-6d common = 61 lbs per nail 0.131 = 8d common = 82 lbs per nail 0.148 = 10d common = 100 lbs per nail **The nail capacities need to be adjusted for other factors, but the vast majority of the time they all increase or decrease in strength as the same percentage** Almost all braced wall panels / wood shear walls use 8d commons and some high capacity shear walls will use 10d commons (northeast geographically) because the nail spacing would be way too tight otherwise or the capacity isn't high enough without making the shear wall have sheathing on both sides. I've had to specify 10d commons when a portal frame isn't feasible or the builder doesn't like the large number of holddowns (understandable!) and non-traditional shear wall details are needed to fit a very large opening within a shear wall assembly. References: M18 FUEL™ 30 Degree Framing Nailer www.milwaukeetool.com/Products/2745-20#sp-specs M18 FUEL™ 21 Degree Framing Nailer www.milwaukeetool.com/Products/2744-20#sp-specs American Wood Council "AWC" baseline nail capacities, Table 12N (page 115) awc.org/pdf-viewer/?idp=4128&idf=12 ~An annoying structural engineer
This is good information. My son is studying to become an engineer. I'm impressed with your references too. I've never had that happen in my comments, lol. I plan on visiting Milwaukee in a couple months and want to continue this conversation with them some more.
Originally I purchased the 30 degree sort of by accident as I wanted the 21 degree initially. In the end I returned it since my local Home Depot didn’t carry much of options with regards to the 31 degree nails. Found many more options at 21 degree Edit: makes sense since I live on the west coast as HD generally has more 21 nail options . Great video on the subject
Yeah, it's interesting to hear the back story on these nailers. I've used the 30 degree more in my life, but don't find as many nails choices for them in my local stores.
*QUESTION:* Milwaukee rep in the video says _"our tools fit... up to .148 shank diameter _*_in both models"_* (both the 21 degree and 30 degree) [ 7:07 ]. But, I've heard some of the guys say they use the 21 degree gun because they can't use .148 in the 30 degree gun - _AND_ even the Milwaukee website lists the specs for the 30 degree gun as *Nail Shank Diameter: .113” - .131”*. Any thoughts on this discrepancy?
I left a note about the same thing with the references. It definitely needs to be cleared up; not being able to use 0.148" diameter nails is a big deal structurally
I went with the 30° as im in the UK and i cant say ive ever seen anybody using a 21° nailer on site. Everybody uses the paslode style strips, does make it easy if you are a strip short you can ask basically any trade and youll probably be able to get a strip
The interview with the Milwaukee rep was great. I am here in Maine, HD has a ton of 21deg but not so much 30deg. This is unfortunate, I was on the fence but after watching the plastic shrapnel fly around and even put a nick in your trim work I am going for the 30deg.
Full time carpenter/contractor here. I have always preferred a 21 degree nailer. Specifically the hitachi/metabo pneumatic nailers. They are complete power houses and are extremely durable, although they are generally slightly heavier than their 30 degree counterpart. I actually purchased a Paslode 30 degree pneumatic nailer from home depot about 4 months ago, ran it for a day and then returned it. I did not like how it handled, and also needed much higher PSI on the compressor to sink nails.
I have the 30° unit. I run Paslode nails and Everbilt nails, never had a single dry fire or misfire with those. Dewalt 30° nails on the other hand do not work well in this gun as you constantly have to push in the clip of nails, the paper collet is slightly larger and prevents the clip of nails from going into the firing chamber seamlessly (annoying and potentially dangerous when working overhead) . Weight is a factor as this isn’t a light tool and your tires quickly at first but you get used to it overtime. Other than that, it’s a very tough and powerful nailer.
Thanks for letting us know about the Dewalt nail strip issue. I think the only Dewalt strips I've bought are for my 15° finish nailer, which work with no issues.
From what I saw here the 30 degree was smoother and did not split the wood as bad and the 21 degree nails. My research showed this are the exact same nailers and you can change the nail feed rail for either nail design. I am waiting patiently so see the newly announced Makita in comparison to the Milwaukee.
Thanks for the information. I’m going with the 21° mainly for the full head and plastic on the nails. Reloading isn’t an issue. This video really helped. Thanks again. I live in California BTW.
I live in the Northeast and find the 21 degree full head nails to be a bit more readily available. I'm still using a pneumatic gun that can accept both types of nails, but rarely use the 30 degree.
Great, helpful comparison. My pick is 21 degree, since if it’s not wet, it’s humid & my shop isn’t climate controlled. The paper connectors will sooner or later end up being unusable (or won’t feed smoothly). Tight spaces? I just angle the nailer to compensate for the steeper angle.
@@MarkThomasBuilderit doesn't. I've had 3 boxes of pass lode nails that I got off eBay. The boxes look like shit and they've been sitting around for 4 years totally fine. Shouldn't be dumping water on your nails either way.
Amazing video! Thanks! Your video made me want to go with the 30 to save clean up and reload time, but after looking at HD's prices in Texas the 21 degree nails were significantly cheaper than the 30 degree. I'm going with 21 to save money on nails over time. Thanks for the great video!!!
That's awesome! Can you show me how to make that simple modification? I actually just bought a 21 degree and nails for it only to find out the other contractor in my team has a 30 degree and no nails. I don't want to buy more nails just for him. I'd love to know about that adjustment @@Ketchupbelongsonsteak
Not a pro but in my limited framing, I've been on the fence but I'm opting for the 30. Paper collation is definitely not an issue for me in N Texas. Larger capacity and increased power drive is for sure the deciding factor.
ONE HUGE difference. Most shear walls in strength areas require .148 10D nails. In coastal Alaska my 150mph 3 second gust requires me to have .148 to accommodate thicker sheathing that I need. The 30degree doesn't do .148, only the thin .131. I noticed the Rep saying in some places you could get a 30degree .148. One, I have had a hard time finding them, and two the specs say only up to 131. Curious if anyone has shot 148 in the 30 degree. Myself I would go 21degree and put the extended on it for code etc. I bought 4 30 degree before knowing I was hosed on nail shanks. You can mod a 30 to a 21, but the mod of a 21 to a 30 is much harder (not Milwaukee approved)
Thank you very helpful. I am getting my first framing nail gun. I am in California. I went to a few Lowes and Home Depot’s to see if they carried a good variety of both nails. Thankfully they do. So I will be going with a 30 Degree. I can’t wait.
All of the info in the video is correct. I would just add that if you are doing everything from small remodels to larger framing, the cordless paslode is the way to go. It’s the lightest cordless gun available. The “extra” cost in gas cartridges actually saves you time and money in the long from having to have the air cylinder in the Milwaukee refilled. The 30 degree is great for tight spaces that is always an issue in remodels. And you can pair it up with a lightweight pneumatic of your choice when doing large jobs. Therefore one nail platform to stock and the ultimate in flexibility/options.
Paslode cordless gas fuel tube smells horrible and it doesn't work great in the cold. The gas tube lasts only 1200 nails whereas the battery lasts for 9000. The gas tube runs out at the worst time possible.
@@MyNomDePlume Personally I disagree. The smell doesn’t bother me one bit. And not having extra gas tubes us like having a Sawzall and not having a Sawzall blade. I’ll take a lightweight paslode all day over all the other super heavy cordless framers. But that’s just my perspective. This what makes TH-cam comments soo valuable. Everyone can take away sone key points for different perspectives.
This is definitely an interesting topic. I have framed in both the midwest and intermountain west for over 20 years and been around construction sites for over 30 years and I see a big difference in availably at the box stores; just like the Milwaukee Rep pointed out. That being said, if allowed by code for remodel projects I really like the 30 so there is less mess and, obviously for a new build, mess is not a factor. Also as I was thinking about this, I find it interesting that full round headed 30 degree nails are rated the same as 21 degree nails because it seems to me that a 21's flange is "even" instead of being "offset" and I would think that would make a difference in holding strength...but I'm not an engineer or inspector. Maybe it's more about total surface area and a clipped nail would have less compared to either full head offering; what does everyone else think?
Initially, I thought the same thing regarding whether the "offset" head would give the same holding strength versus the "even" head. I'd say it works like this: If we were talking about holding an object which is prone to "rocking", then the offset head would be at a disadvantage when the object rocked to the side opposite of the offset head. HOWEVER, 2 x 4s are not prone to rocking. So, the criterion here is *holding strength.* A .131 shank sunken into wood is the same .131 regardless of whether the head is offset or even. Now it comes down to *how much area of the head of the nail will keep that piece from pulling apart.* If the area of the head of the nail is 28mm2 for example, then you have 28mm2 of holding force (the head of the nail), and it doesn't matter whether that holding force area is directly above the shank of the nail, or offset - either way there is still 28mm2 of area pressing against the wood to hold it in place.
@@mdk2066 - We weren't talking about clipped head, we were speaking of "offset" heads. As such, an offset head has the same amount of area as a standard head - so, you wouldn't be able to pull a *1/4" wide offset head* through the lumber any easier than you could a *1/4" wide standard head.* They're both still 1/4" head.
I had the 30 deWalt a while back got stolen finally got a replacement but went the 21 Milwaukee and I honestly like the 21 better but for small jobs the 30 was nicer to have as it hood more and some times you can finish the small stuff with a rack and be done haha
Great info. Nice to see a rep with the answers. I am in Canada and I prefer 30 degree for accessibility. I agree with a previous commenter that the nailer is heavy. I’m doing Reno’s and prefer something I can grab and not have to unload a heavy compressor and hoses. If I was doing lots of nailing on a bigger build I’d likely go back to my 28 degree Bostich pneumatic as it’s way lighter and already has a longer magazine.
I prefer the cow nailer. Main reason is I like the way the wire helps hold things together.. Try puling those nails out or try pulling 2 pieces of wood apart using the nails with paper/plastic or nail held together with wire
Rep comments were super helpful is deciding between 21 and 30. Fun fact... back to your intro, the difference between these two nailers is in fact 9 deg. The guns are identical, the only difference is the cartridge and you can interchange them. If you look at the 21 you can see the mounting hole for the 30, so one gun can be both 21 and 30 depending on the cartridge attached.
great video, I asked a local rep why they don't make a coil nailer. cheaper to buy nails, has a full head and lasts a long time between refills. he didn't have an answer unfortunately
that's quite a workout at the beginning of your video holding one in each hand. I have the complete lineup of Milwaukee nailers from pin to framing and they have all been perfect. I don't think my framing nailer has ever missed fired. I always thought the 30° was to get into tight corners I had no idea there was code with nailheads so this was very informative. I would be curious on your thoughts of smooth versus ribbed nails and what codes are are associated with those. anytime I do a demo it's always find smooth nails from a nail gun were used but I always use the ribbed so things don't come apart.
MarkThomasBuilder... New sub here. Nice review video of the two nailers. I would love to switch over from air to cordless and I think the Milwaukee 30° one is the one I would go with just like the air nailers I already have and that I've always been used to using.
@@MarkThomasBuilder I actually prefer air tools......cordless have their place, but I have no issues rolling out extension cords to have max options. Great video!
My understanding is you can get one of these and buy the extended mag for the other degree. they're the same tool and even have the same mounting screws for both magazines. So you can use any nails you find.
I have the 21 degree model and I love it. The only downside is that when firing the gun little bits of the plastic holding the nails together will spit out and hit your face.
Great video but regardless of the angle the Milwaukee is just to heavy for everyday work and I am a Milwaukee platform fan! I will just stick with the Paslode and accept whatever angle it comes in to save 5 Lbs of weight on my arm and back because the wood does not know what angle the nail was collated.
amazing how houses never blew away before there were code officers to dictate their infinite wisdom. Thank you for the explanation and difference between the 21 and 30 deg. I guess I will stick with my old bostitch 28deg air nailer. How boring would my day be not having the air line catch on every imaginable thing as I move around the site.
We had a very large earthquake 6 years ago where I live. All the damage to houses where those residing in an area outside of city code enforcement area. Food for thought. Buildings will cut corners. It’s proven.
Mark Thomas you should try out Ballistic Nailscrews. I had bought mine in 30degree they fire in with framing nailer but can be removed like screws. I am pretty sure they are not for framing I had bought them for decking etc. very handy.
There is also an extended magazine sold separately for the 30 degree nailer. I bet with it installed its the same weight as the 21 degree which has an extended length magazine already.
I have both don’t really have a preference I do like the larger nail magazine on the 30 less reloading where my preference comes in is how much they weigh. If you’re using them a lot I like the lighter ones the electric Milwaukee are good for small jobs but too heavy for big use.
I want the versatility of getting into more places so it's the 30* for me. More nails is a huge plus also. Having an extended magazine is a big plus too. I wouldn't mind seeing how they sit with the belt clip and the rafter hook, with and without the extension and different size batteries.
I've had my 30° for over a year now and still kicks like it did the first time I used it. I use the HO 6amp bats in mine. And I keep my nails dry at all times in an ammo can box and no mess to clean afterwards lol
The biggest setback for me with my 21deg nailer is not being able to get in tight spaces or angles. Which he explained briefly at the end of the video. I imagine that is the primary reason why the 30deg was designed.
Hi Mark and all, need some help please… What is the difference between Milwaukee 15 and 16 finish nailers, the size gap between them is not much, then what is the real difference. Why Milwaukee decided to come up with 16ga finish nailer when they had the 15ga? Thank you in advance for the help in this manner.
This is a great question that I also wondered about. My go-to setup for years was the 15ga and the 18ga for trimming a home. Maybe a 16 is personal preference for some over the 15? They both shoot up to 2-1/2" nails, so there's no difference in the depth.
Pretty much what the Milwaukee rep said, whatever is available in your region. Here in MO, 30° reigns, though you can find both on shelves side by side. There are usually more options for 30, though.
What’s being missed in the discussion is the shank diameter, which qualifies the nail as a 10D or not. Unless something has changed all the 30 degree are .120 diameter and cannot be used commercially in any part of the US.
I have a ryobi 30 degree nailer. I recently bought the 21 degree mag for it to try and see if i can have best of both worlds. Yea. It works. My channel has a video.
Interesting. Terrific tutorial! Thanks for the info. Milwaukee’s framing nailers look sleeker and more wieldable than competitor DeWalt’s bulbous, flywheel-powered models, which aren’t very well-balanced and some report, have difficultly driving the longest (3 1/4-inch) nails. However, DeWalt’s nailers are about two-pounds lighter than Milwaukee’s models. DeWalt nailers on sale now, I haven’t seen this many price drops at the same time in five years. Wonder why? DeWalt nailers appeared to be less expensive in the first place.
I've been using a 21 degree ryobi cordless nailer. This past week. it is really bulky and hard to get into tight spots. Especially when dangleling off a ladder. I'm no framer but these things are heavy! However, lighter smaller is the way to go... probably lol
There's a tradeoff for battery power. I like not having a pnenumatic nailer where I have to bring a compressor and hoses, and tool oil. The 30° sounds like the best bet for tight spaces and less weight.
Its funny there is not much talk about the 28 degree or wire welded. I really like those. Plus the 28 degree nailers run both the 28 plus the 30 with zero issues. Doesnt work the other way around. Nice to have that option of whichever nail is on sale.
These nailers are heavy AF. We mostly use air nailers for house building. But we do have a 21 degree milwaukee fuel and a Pasload for those times when a hose is just not going to work well. The Pasload is much lighter and the milwaukee almost never sees any use. If you need an airless gun, strongly consider the passload. You arm will thank you.
I realize this is a simple demo, but I typically hold my nailer to the side, or at 90 deg with the magazine when doing toe nailing. I've owned both of these, unfortunately my 21 grew legs one day along with a lot of my tools that were in the back of my truck(yes, with a cable securing them, but we know that locks keep honest people honest.) The performance between the two is pretty much equal. However, the application is different. Yes, they can both be used in the same manner, and unless there is a code, then you must use one or the other. But for interior jobs, like building office walls, then the 30 is my go to because of the plastic debris. Not only is there a mess to clean up, when you are working in close quarters, those pieces tend to hit other people, or even yourself. Even with eye pro, I've had some pieces end up in my eye, especially overhead nailing. Fortunately, or unfortunately however you look at it, I haven't had any jobs that needed a 21 per code, so I don't need to run out and buy a replacement.
@@MarkThomasBuilder , Yeah, it happened the day after Hurricane Ida a few years ago. I was helping some older neighbors do some quick repairs on their house and I was literally in the back yard for less than a minute seeing what I needed. I had a cable going through all of the tools. According to one of the other neighbors he saw them pull up, jump on to my bed, cut the cable, throw the tools into their truck and drive away. He said it was too fast for him to be able to run down and get the plate number, because by the time he figured out what was happening the truck was around the corner. So now I am in the process of replacing them as I perform a job that requires said tool/s or if there is a great deal at HD.
I have the 30 degree but wish I bought the 21. Primary reason : I find that nail options and availability is a lot better for 21. I find a lot more inventory at my local Lowe’s and HD , whereas the 30 is a hit and miss.
I have Both framers in Air and in a Bi-State area I do have to keep in mind what nails are appropriate to town/city,county,and state building codes in the Chicago Land/Calumet region in the United States. I don't care either way the degree. Both my framing guns have been running smooth and flawlessly and both weigh the same. I Actually have every Air Nailer in every size or type of nail available. I use them like golf clubs and match the right nailer to the right job. Or any other fastener the customer wants? I'm not picky 👍
Awesome video!! I actually bought the 18v Ridgid 21 degree framing nailer because it was on sale for $100 off. But after using it for various projects, the mess it makes with the plastic gets annoying. I did hear though that you can replace the magazine and use an extended magazine to fit more nails, but apparently the 30 degree magazine fits perfectly and works on the 21 degree framing nailer so I'mma buy the 30 degree extended magazine and try it out on my 21 degree. For $70 bucks its worth the test especially if i can have both framing sizes in one nailer.
@@baront3932 Haven't tried it yet. Mag got delivered on Tuesday but I haven't had time to swap it out and get 30° nails for it. Hopefully this weekend I can get to it and I'll follow up with you. I want to do a video of the swap and test too.
@@baront3932 update, I finally got around to installing the 30 degree magazine extension on my 21 degree and it fits perfectly. The top bolts and the bottom bolt all fit perfectly fine without any modifications. The problem is with the drive pin and the 30 degree clipped head nails. The drive pin is thicker and it catches the 1st and 2nd nail and shoots doubles. I think it's because of the clipped head that's causing the issue since it puts the nails too close to each other. So yes it does fit, but no it doesn't function properly with clipped head nails. I will try with 30 degree full round head nails and see if there's a difference but I need to find some because around here I haven't seen any. I'll update you once I test that out. I did make a video but I need to edit it so once I do that, I can put the link on here.
Not a pro by any means so for me 21 with the plastic is way better for the casual user. I have had some of my 21 nails out in the shed for 10 years at least and they still shoot perfect. Not sure if the paper would hold up that long in a damp environment so I don't even want to try.
I have both nailers and love them both, but I have noticed that the 21 degree nailer sometimes struggles to sink in the .148 diameter nails. At least it did for me, and to cover all variables, it was in the cold months in Illinois, and they were the Grip Rite brand nails. It shoots the other diameters perfect. So far, no issues with my 30 degree.
Huh, interesting. I wonder if it's the cold weather or maybe the nitrogen level inside the unit is low?? I haven't tried enough brands of nails to see is some sink in better than others.
@h2s142 Haven't tried shooting nails that diameter with the 30 degree, it's my 21 degree that had the issue sinking them in. I also haven't had the need to shoot shorter nails, but I'm sure it does those just fine. Code in my area allows me to stick to 30 degree nailers.
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What framing nailer would you choose and why? The 21 degree or 30 degree?
30
i have both but the 30 works better for tow toe nailing so i use it more
I have 2 pneumatic framing nailers (Dewalt and Ridgid) with 21-degrees and they both work well. Maybe one jam before lunch and one jam after lunch. Also have 2 cordless nailers (Dewalt) at 30 degress and they are a headache. The jam clearing lever on top of the nailer that forces the 'hammer' to slide rearward reminds me of an M249 SAW (Squad Automatic Weapon) bolt slamming forward with no "bang"...so slow, heavy and no excitement of the expected work to be sent off.
I already have the Milwaukee 21 degree and it works for me, I also have a senco pneumatic 21 degree, I think the nails may be more affordable and available in my area Northern California.
Both are really good for door stops. These charged air guns can not evolve beyond what they are right now. Toooo heavy, batteries only last 800 shots. Technology is shared among many other brands. So none are better than each other, it only comes down to price and how much brain washing the companies want to spend. Eg; influencers with high views. Anyone that really knows the building game knows that Paslode make the best nails.
Now THAT is a rep who knows his stuff - technicals and the business.
Yes, 100%! I was excited to get this interview with all the great information.
He's wrong on the intermountain west. I live there and see 30 degrees everywhere. I prefer it myself. I haven't seen clipped head in over 2 decades.
I purchased a 21 degree nailer with the 30 degree extension. Easy to switch them around. I actually had both 21 and 30 degree because of a promotion. When I tried to swap the 21 degree onto the 30 degree there was a little notch that actually got in the way. But when swapping the 30 degree to the 21 degree that notch isn't in the way. There are videos on how to remove that notch to fit it that way but since they are the same price its easier to buy the 21 degree as your main gun and swap it to 30 degrees if you want the ability to have both!
No kidding, I'll have to look into that. Thanks!
Are you able to use use all 30° nails when you convert it without issues?
@@LuisRobles-do2ph I've only used the 30 degree extension a handful of times but haven't had any issues with the nailer. I usually use the 21 degree because I need the full heads in most cases due to codes, but it is nice to use the 30 degree when I can because it holds a lot more nails due to it being clipped head 30 degree nail strips but its also an extension so its larger than the original nail clips lol.
@@michaelkeefer6799 also need to buy an extension cos only for one pack of nails.its bad on customers in at least 3 ways
I’ve been searching for a simple comparison for so long. This is just what I’ve been looking for. Thank you!
I've been wanting to make this video for a long time. Fortunately the timing worked out to have Sean from Milwaukee explain it in great detail.🙌
Rain and wet weather is the main deciding factor for me. 21 degree for me.
They make full head 30 degree nails held together with a waterproof material.
Best explanation of why there are both 21 and 30 degree nailers. I like my yellow tools but the guy with the red shirt impressed me,
Thanks, I was very excited how well the interview went and glad to be able to make this video.l
I have both but prefer the 21° due to it being collated with plastic and not susceptible to water damage. Did I mention that I live in the Pacific Northwest? Lol
Been reading most of the responses, and well, I just buy and own them ALL.. I have the Paslode (2012 long battery model) in 30*, Bostich 28*WW (wire-weld) Low Profile, Bostich gas powered 28*WW and the Milwaukee 30* M18. I've NEVER like the plastic collated nails, not for the dingle-berries left behind, but for the fact that I had a piece of that "shrapnel" hit me in the eye once and THAT was no BUENO!! Also, the 28+ degree nailers allow you to "lay" down a 3-1/4" or 3-1/2" when doubling 2x material without the point protruding through the "inside" doubler," thereby reducing the chance of you gouging a finger or cutting a lift strap when lifting or setting wall sections. I have OLD 21* Ridgid, Hitachi and Grip-Rite nailers.. I reserve those for posterity or when I have the occasional West-Coaster show up and he seems confused and baffled about what to do out here in the Northeast!! I then send him down to the local hardware store and wish him LUCK finding his beloved 21* nails.. If he finds them, I pay for the nails AND his time, if he doesn't find them, well, I lost a guy for about 2 hrs that day.. As far as clipped, full-round or offset-full-round, there is VERY minimal difference in holding power, So long as they aren't over-driven. In cases when the Code Officer "whines" about clipped/offset heads, we adjust the nailing schedule closer, nailing every 4" vs 6" on perimeter an 12" vs 16" in the "field". Nails should NEVER be set no more than the thickness of the head below the surface of the wood, the only exception being sheet goods, when NO amount of under-flush is acceptable. In that case, a slightly proud nail is preferred, and then "set" with a final blow of a smooth faced hammer.
Thanks for sharing, very insightful. Great story about the West-Coaster and the 21°😂
As a contractor worker I own both since sometimes the nails on the jobsite is 21 degrees and hardware store is 1 hr away. Normally we use 30 degree exterior and interior nails with 2 sizes. When using the nailers always check the front Screws since the get loose after using the nailers after maybe a month. It causes Miss fire not Driving them all the way. After you tighten a screws if you don't lose any then the nailers work fine. I beening using them since they came out. Something if nail broke off 21 degree you need to cut with a Razor knife so no issue fireing nails. The old 30 degree will be wire held instead of paper.
Actually, the information on Milwaukee's site says that the 30° shank diameter is .113-.131 and the 21° is .113-.148. This was the deciding factor for me in choosing the 21°.
Interesting... I'll have to look into that some more. The nails I used in this video are a different diameter, with the 21° being bigger.
@MarkThomasBuilder I would love to know if the specs are wrong and the 30° is compatible with .148.
@@Cavett24 I do not believe anyone sell .148" 30° nails. Most framing requirements call for .131" nail. Hanger nails used in positive placement nailers is where .148" is common.
@phamlam3720 we get speced 148's on certain sheer walls.
I read the same thing and was wondering what the rep was saying to be correct 🤔
That’s pretty fascinating. I’ve seen the different types of nails, and was looking on the labels to try to determine what angle they were all at. I figured it would be marked somewhere, but your explanation of them being held together with plastic or paper makes it obvious now
I really like Milwaukee's products, but one thing to note from this video:
Please be aware that Milwaukee's website states that the 21 degree nailer can handle nail shank diameters ranging from 0.131 to 0.148, whereas the 30 degree nailer can handle nail shank diameters of 0.113 to 0.131. This is a big difference structurally. The list below shows what diameters correspond with what type of common nails as well as their baseline lateral (shear) design values for fastening two pieces of 1-1/2" SPF together (like a double top plate or multi-ply header connection):
0.113 = ~5-6d common = 61 lbs per nail
0.131 = 8d common = 82 lbs per nail
0.148 = 10d common = 100 lbs per nail
**The nail capacities need to be adjusted for other factors, but the vast majority of the time they all increase or decrease in strength as the same percentage**
Almost all braced wall panels / wood shear walls use 8d commons and some high capacity shear walls will use 10d commons (northeast geographically) because the nail spacing would be way too tight otherwise or the capacity isn't high enough without making the shear wall have sheathing on both sides. I've had to specify 10d commons when a portal frame isn't feasible or the builder doesn't like the large number of holddowns (understandable!) and non-traditional shear wall details are needed to fit a very large opening within a shear wall assembly.
References:
M18 FUEL™ 30 Degree Framing Nailer
www.milwaukeetool.com/Products/2745-20#sp-specs
M18 FUEL™ 21 Degree Framing Nailer
www.milwaukeetool.com/Products/2744-20#sp-specs
American Wood Council "AWC" baseline nail capacities, Table 12N (page 115)
awc.org/pdf-viewer/?idp=4128&idf=12
~An annoying structural engineer
This is good information. My son is studying to become an engineer. I'm impressed with your references too. I've never had that happen in my comments, lol.
I plan on visiting Milwaukee in a couple months and want to continue this conversation with them some more.
@@MarkThomasBuilder Would be interesting to hear what they have to say on the subject for sure.
Originally I purchased the 30 degree sort of by accident as I wanted the 21 degree initially. In the end I returned it since my local Home Depot didn’t carry much of options with regards to the 31 degree nails. Found many more options at 21 degree
Edit: makes sense since I live on the west coast as HD generally has more 21 nail options . Great video on the subject
Yeah, it's interesting to hear the back story on these nailers. I've used the 30 degree more in my life, but don't find as many nails choices for them in my local stores.
Great explainer, and the set looks great Mark!
Thanks, I'm working on having 3 sets/ backgrounds this winter.
*QUESTION:* Milwaukee rep in the video says _"our tools fit... up to .148 shank diameter _*_in both models"_* (both the 21 degree and 30 degree) [ 7:07 ]. But, I've heard some of the guys say they use the 21 degree gun because they can't use .148 in the 30 degree gun - _AND_ even the Milwaukee website lists the specs for the 30 degree gun as *Nail Shank Diameter: .113” - .131”*. Any thoughts on this discrepancy?
I left a note about the same thing with the references. It definitely needs to be cleared up; not being able to use 0.148" diameter nails is a big deal structurally
This video helped me decide on my first nailer. Thanks
Wow, awesome! Which one are you choosing?
I went with the 30° as im in the UK and i cant say ive ever seen anybody using a 21° nailer on site. Everybody uses the paslode style strips, does make it easy if you are a strip short you can ask basically any trade and youll probably be able to get a strip
The interview with the Milwaukee rep was great. I am here in Maine, HD has a ton of 21deg but not so much 30deg. This is unfortunate, I was on the fence but after watching the plastic shrapnel fly around and even put a nick in your trim work I am going for the 30deg.
Interesting things to consider and I agree, the Milwaukee rep was great!
Full time carpenter/contractor here. I have always preferred a 21 degree nailer. Specifically the hitachi/metabo pneumatic nailers. They are complete power houses and are extremely durable, although they are generally slightly heavier than their 30 degree counterpart. I actually purchased a Paslode 30 degree pneumatic nailer from home depot about 4 months ago, ran it for a day and then returned it. I did not like how it handled, and also needed much higher PSI on the compressor to sink nails.
Interesting to hear that. I've never tried a Paslode, but considered buying one years ago.
Thanks for taking your time this is extremely helpful! Much appreciated for your time ❤❤❤
You are welcome!
Good piece and may be the BEST manufacture's rep in regards to answers and knowledge.
Yes, I was excited to get all this great information from Sean, the product manager.
I have the 30° unit. I run Paslode nails and Everbilt nails, never had a single dry fire or misfire with those. Dewalt 30° nails on the other hand do not work well in this gun as you constantly have to push in the clip of nails, the paper collet is slightly larger and prevents the clip of nails from going into the firing chamber seamlessly (annoying and potentially dangerous when working overhead) . Weight is a factor as this isn’t a light tool and your tires quickly at first but you get used to it overtime. Other than that, it’s a very tough and powerful nailer.
Thanks for letting us know about the Dewalt nail strip issue. I think the only Dewalt strips I've bought are for my 15° finish nailer, which work with no issues.
This video is just what I was looking for. Thanks for the real time comparison of both nailers.
You bet, thanks for letting me know.
In regards to the toe nailing, surely you could haxe turning both nail guns to the side making the nailing at what ever angle you like
Yes, that's a good point. There may be a rare situation where there isn't much room to turn it.
From what I saw here the 30 degree was smoother and did not split the wood as bad and the 21 degree nails. My research showed this are the exact same nailers and you can change the nail feed rail for either nail design. I am waiting patiently so see the newly announced Makita in comparison to the Milwaukee.
I have some footage of the new Makita framing nailer that will appear in my 2nd World of Concrete video.
I hope to have it uploaded on Thursday .
Thanks for the test & review. I ended up getting the 30°
I guess a 30* it is! Need to get into tight spaces and I’m not crazy about the plastic chips from the 21. Thank you for elaborating!
The 30 is a great nailer.
THANK YOU. I HAVE WONDERED THIS SINCE I STARTED FRAMING
You bet, I was getting that question quite a bit and glad to see this video reaching so many people.
I've got the 21° nailer and I love it. The battery will last forever it seems. Depth stays consistent thru out
Awesome!
Thanks for the information. I’m going with the 21° mainly for the full head and plastic on the nails. Reloading isn’t an issue. This video really helped. Thanks again. I live in California BTW.
You bet, glad it helped.
I live in the Northeast and find the 21 degree full head nails to be a bit more readily available. I'm still using a pneumatic gun that can accept both types of nails, but rarely use the 30 degree.
Great, helpful comparison. My pick is 21 degree, since if it’s not wet, it’s humid & my shop isn’t climate controlled. The paper connectors will sooner or later end up being unusable (or won’t feed smoothly). Tight spaces? I just angle the nailer to compensate for the steeper angle.
I never thought about high humidity areas affecting the paper like that. Makes sense.
@@MarkThomasBuilderit doesn't. I've had 3 boxes of pass lode nails that I got off eBay. The boxes look like shit and they've been sitting around for 4 years totally fine. Shouldn't be dumping water on your nails either way.
Very interesting. This explains why I’ve only ever seen 30 degree nails in stock in most shops up here in the great white north
antarctica?
Exactly the info I needed…21 foe me…will be buying tomorrow…
Awesome!
Amazing video! Thanks! Your video made me want to go with the 30 to save clean up and reload time, but after looking at HD's prices in Texas the 21 degree nails were significantly cheaper than the 30 degree. I'm going with 21 to save money on nails over time. Thanks for the great video!!!
Interesting to hear what decision you made. 👍
You can order extended mags 30degree and 21 degree. With a simple modification your gun will use either magazine.
That's awesome! Can you show me how to make that simple modification? I actually just bought a 21 degree and nails for it only to find out the other contractor in my team has a 30 degree and no nails. I don't want to buy more nails just for him. I'd love to know about that adjustment
@@Ketchupbelongsonsteak
Not a pro but in my limited framing, I've been on the fence but I'm opting for the 30. Paper collation is definitely not an issue for me in N Texas. Larger capacity and increased power drive is for sure the deciding factor.
I'm sure you'll be very happy with the 30! It's a great nailer.
ONE HUGE difference. Most shear walls in strength areas require .148 10D nails. In coastal Alaska my 150mph 3 second gust requires me to have .148 to accommodate thicker sheathing that I need. The 30degree doesn't do .148, only the thin .131. I noticed the Rep saying in some places you could get a 30degree .148. One, I have had a hard time finding them, and two the specs say only up to 131. Curious if anyone has shot 148 in the 30 degree. Myself I would go 21degree and put the extended on it for code etc. I bought 4 30 degree before knowing I was hosed on nail shanks. You can mod a 30 to a 21, but the mod of a 21 to a 30 is much harder (not Milwaukee approved)
Great job !!!
Gotta hand it to you, a very informative video, with demonstrations. Great job, helped me out a lot.
Thanks, glad to hear it!
Thank you very helpful. I am getting my first framing nail gun. I am in California. I went to a few Lowes and Home Depot’s to see if they carried a good variety of both nails. Thankfully they do. So I will be going with a 30 Degree. I can’t wait.
You're welcome! I think you'll be very happy with the 30°.
Very informative. Thank you
Top notch video, seriously. Really good stuff. Thank you
Thanks, glad you enjoyed it!
All of the info in the video is correct. I would just add that if you are doing everything from small remodels to larger framing, the cordless paslode is the way to go. It’s the lightest cordless gun available. The “extra” cost in gas cartridges actually saves you time and money in the long from having to have the air cylinder in the Milwaukee refilled. The 30 degree is great for tight spaces that is always an issue in remodels. And you can pair it up with a lightweight pneumatic of your choice when doing large jobs. Therefore one nail platform to stock and the ultimate in flexibility/options.
Paslode cordless gas fuel tube smells horrible and it doesn't work great in the cold. The gas tube lasts only 1200 nails whereas the battery lasts for 9000. The gas tube runs out at the worst time possible.
@@MyNomDePlume Personally I disagree. The smell doesn’t bother me one bit. And not having extra gas tubes us like having a Sawzall and not having a Sawzall blade. I’ll take a lightweight paslode all day over all the other super heavy cordless framers. But that’s just my perspective. This what makes TH-cam comments soo valuable. Everyone can take away sone key points for different perspectives.
What air cylinder in the Milwaukee? Site says completely battery operated.
The plastic coating is definitely goat though but otherwise that 30 sounds pretty neat. I have an old 21 and I love it.
This is definitely an interesting topic. I have framed in both the midwest and intermountain west for over 20 years and been around construction sites for over 30 years and I see a big difference in availably at the box stores; just like the Milwaukee Rep pointed out. That being said, if allowed by code for remodel projects I really like the 30 so there is less mess and, obviously for a new build, mess is not a factor. Also as I was thinking about this, I find it interesting that full round headed 30 degree nails are rated the same as 21 degree nails because it seems to me that a 21's flange is "even" instead of being "offset" and I would think that would make a difference in holding strength...but I'm not an engineer or inspector. Maybe it's more about total surface area and a clipped nail would have less compared to either full head offering; what does everyone else think?
Initially, I thought the same thing regarding whether the "offset" head would give the same holding strength versus the "even" head. I'd say it works like this: If we were talking about holding an object which is prone to "rocking", then the offset head would be at a disadvantage when the object rocked to the side opposite of the offset head. HOWEVER, 2 x 4s are not prone to rocking. So, the criterion here is *holding strength.* A .131 shank sunken into wood is the same .131 regardless of whether the head is offset or even. Now it comes down to *how much area of the head of the nail will keep that piece from pulling apart.*
If the area of the head of the nail is 28mm2 for example, then you have 28mm2 of holding force (the head of the nail), and it doesn't matter whether that holding force area is directly above the shank of the nail, or offset - either way there is still 28mm2 of area pressing against the wood to hold it in place.
I think it's more about pull through than holding. Easier to pull the nail completely through the wood being fastened with a clipped head.
@@mdk2066 - We weren't talking about clipped head, we were speaking of "offset" heads. As such, an offset head has the same amount of area as a standard head - so, you wouldn't be able to pull a *1/4" wide offset head* through the lumber any easier than you could a *1/4" wide standard head.* They're both still 1/4" head.
I got the 21 degree based on price. HD had the kit with 5A batteries on clearance in summer of 2022 for $179 another 15% off clearance
$179 ??? Where do YOU live? Oh, wait - let me guess: At $179, you must live in a little town in a place called _"Heaven"._ HAHAHAHA!
I had the 30 deWalt a while back got stolen finally got a replacement but went the 21 Milwaukee and I honestly like the 21 better but for small jobs the 30 was nicer to have as it hood more and some times you can finish the small stuff with a rack and be done haha
Great video, helped me make my decision. was exactly what I was looking for in a review. Thanks
Great to hear it!
Great info. Nice to see a rep with the answers.
I am in Canada and I prefer 30 degree for accessibility.
I agree with a previous commenter that the nailer is heavy. I’m doing Reno’s and prefer something I can grab and not have to unload a heavy compressor and hoses.
If I was doing lots of nailing on a bigger build I’d likely go back to my 28 degree Bostich pneumatic as it’s way lighter and already has a longer magazine.
Awesome! Love Milwaukee and ready to make a purchase and this was exactly what I needed. 30 for me! (a mid-west boy)
Thanks, that's a good choice!
Excellent review and comparison. It helped make up my mind.
Awesome, thank you!
I prefer the cow nailer. Main reason is I like the way the wire helps hold things together.. Try puling those nails out or try pulling 2 pieces of wood apart using the nails with paper/plastic or nail held together with wire
Rep comments were super helpful is deciding between 21 and 30.
Fun fact... back to your intro, the difference between these two nailers is in fact 9 deg. The guns are identical, the only difference is the cartridge and you can interchange them. If you look at the 21 you can see the mounting hole for the 30, so one gun can be both 21 and 30 depending on the cartridge attached.
Interesting point. I'll have to take a closer look at the mounting holes on the cartridge.
I’m definitely going 30 degree
great video, I asked a local rep why they don't make a coil nailer. cheaper to buy nails, has a full head and lasts a long time between refills. he didn't have an answer unfortunately
that's quite a workout at the beginning of your video holding one in each hand. I have the complete lineup of Milwaukee nailers from pin to framing and they have all been perfect. I don't think my framing nailer has ever missed fired. I always thought the 30° was to get into tight corners I had no idea there was code with nailheads so this was very informative. I would be curious on your thoughts of smooth versus ribbed nails and what codes are are associated with those. anytime I do a demo it's always find smooth nails from a nail gun were used but I always use the ribbed so things don't come apart.
I finally found the answer for degree. thanks.
You're welcome, glad this helped!🙌
Thanks!
Thanks so much, I really appreciate that! 😁🙌
Thanks so much for sharing.
You bet!
MarkThomasBuilder... New sub here. Nice review video of the two nailers. I would love to switch over from air to cordless and I think the Milwaukee 30° one is the one I would go with just like the air nailers I already have and that I've always been used to using.
Thanks, I appreciate it! I've always used the 30° nailer before battery powered came along and now it's still the one I prefer.
I framed for 20 years (before cordless) and I always ran 21 degree nail guns. I love my Milwaukee, but it is a heavy beast.
I guess it depends on how big the project is. I used to have to bring a compressor, generator and hoses to jobsites without power.
@@MarkThomasBuilder I actually prefer air tools......cordless have their place, but I have no issues rolling out extension cords to have max options. Great video!
Excellent video! Ive been to home depot many times for the same thing and no one could really answer this question.
I'm been asked this question many times. I'm glad that I got the opportunity to make this video.
My understanding is you can get one of these and buy the extended mag for the other degree. they're the same tool and even have the same mounting screws for both magazines. So you can use any nails you find.
I need to look into that and see if it really works.
I have the 21 degree model and I love it. The only downside is that when firing the gun little bits of the plastic holding the nails together will spit out and hit your face.
I agree with everything you said.👍💯
Great video but regardless of the angle the Milwaukee is just to heavy for everyday work and I am a Milwaukee platform fan! I will just stick with the Paslode and accept whatever angle it comes in to save 5 Lbs of weight on my arm and back because the wood does not know what angle the nail was collated.
I live in the Midwest and bought a 21° back in’89. Bought a dewalt battery 21° last year Nib kit for $100!!
That's a great deal! I'm thinking Dewalt will soon come out with a gen2 version of their framer.
amazing how houses never blew away before there were code officers to dictate their infinite wisdom. Thank you for the explanation and difference between the 21 and 30 deg. I guess I will stick with my old bostitch 28deg air nailer. How boring would my day be not having the air line catch on every imaginable thing as I move around the site.
We had a very large earthquake 6 years ago where I live. All the damage to houses where those residing in an area outside of city code enforcement area. Food for thought. Buildings will cut corners. It’s proven.
😄
Mark Thomas you should try out Ballistic Nailscrews. I had bought mine in 30degree they fire in with framing nailer but can be removed like screws. I am pretty sure they are not for framing I had bought them for decking etc. very handy.
Thanks for the suggestion, Fred! I'll take a look at them, they sound interesting. That might be a great way to nail/screw down some deck boards.
There is also an extended magazine sold separately for the 30 degree nailer. I bet with it installed its the same weight as the 21 degree which has an extended length magazine already.
Thanks, needed this info.
When people ask me the differences, I figured it required a video to explain the differences.
I have both don’t really have a preference I do like the larger nail magazine on the 30 less reloading where my preference comes in is how much they weigh. If you’re using them a lot I like the lighter ones the electric Milwaukee are good for small jobs but too heavy for big use.
I want the versatility of getting into more places so it's the 30* for me. More nails is a huge plus also. Having an extended magazine is a big plus too. I wouldn't mind seeing how they sit with the belt clip and the rafter hook, with and without the extension and different size batteries.
I've had my 30° for over a year now and still kicks like it did the first time I used it. I use the HO 6amp bats in mine. And I keep my nails dry at all times in an ammo can box and no mess to clean afterwards lol
The biggest setback for me with my 21deg nailer is not being able to get in tight spaces or angles. Which he explained briefly at the end of the video. I imagine that is the primary reason why the 30deg was designed.
Hi Mark and all, need some help please…
What is the difference between Milwaukee 15 and 16 finish nailers, the size gap between them is not much, then what is the real difference.
Why Milwaukee decided to come up with 16ga finish nailer when they had the 15ga?
Thank you in advance for the help in this manner.
This is a great question that I also wondered about. My go-to setup for years was the 15ga and the 18ga for trimming a home. Maybe a 16 is personal preference for some over the 15? They both shoot up to 2-1/2" nails, so there's no difference in the depth.
Pretty much what the Milwaukee rep said, whatever is available in your region. Here in MO, 30° reigns, though you can find both on shelves side by side. There are usually more options for 30, though.
Interesting to hear that. I think Michigan has more 21 degree in stock, but I'll have to look again.
What’s being missed in the discussion is the shank diameter, which qualifies the nail as a 10D or not. Unless something has changed all the 30 degree are .120 diameter and cannot be used commercially in any part of the US.
Good point, thanks for sharing!
I have a ryobi 30 degree nailer. I recently bought the 21 degree mag for it to try and see if i can have best of both worlds. Yea. It works. My channel has a video.
Cool, they're both great nailers. Hard to decide which one is best.
Nailed it!
🤣 💯
Interesting. Terrific tutorial! Thanks for the info. Milwaukee’s framing nailers look sleeker and more wieldable than competitor DeWalt’s bulbous, flywheel-powered models, which aren’t very well-balanced and some report, have difficultly driving the longest (3 1/4-inch) nails. However, DeWalt’s nailers are about two-pounds lighter than Milwaukee’s models. DeWalt nailers on sale now, I haven’t seen this many price drops at the same time in five years. Wonder why? DeWalt nailers appeared to be less expensive in the first place.
I've been predicting for awhile now that DeWalt is working on a gen-2 version to improve on the flywheel. Maybe that's the reason for the discount...
I've been using a 21 degree ryobi cordless nailer. This past week. it is really bulky and hard to get into tight spots. Especially when dangleling off a ladder. I'm no framer but these things are heavy! However, lighter smaller is the way to go... probably lol
There's a tradeoff for battery power. I like not having a pnenumatic nailer where I have to bring a compressor and hoses, and tool oil. The 30° sounds like the best bet for tight spaces and less weight.
Ryobi guy huh
It seems have until you have a 100 ft hose dragging behind you getting stuck on everything lol
@@kentex82oh noooo people who Ryobi!
Its funny there is not much talk about the 28 degree or wire welded. I really like those. Plus the 28 degree nailers run both the 28 plus the 30 with zero issues. Doesnt work the other way around. Nice to have that option of whichever nail is on sale.
Is this true for all 28 degree?
Whattt. Really? Gun still shoots fine?
@@z06badboy18 never had a jam or issue shooting from a wire welded with the paper strip nails.
@@PartyTimeProDJs assuming so since I have Bostitch and metabo 28 and both work fine with paper tape strip nails. Both are air nailers though ...
Hey Mark! Awesome video! Just picked up the 30° today! Do you know if i can use 1.5 or 1-3/4 inch nails? The guy at home Depot said 2 inches minimum.
2" minimum is correct. I've never needed to use shorter nails than that. Otherwise, I go to my 15 ga nailer or a narrow crown stapler.
These nailers are heavy AF. We mostly use air nailers for house building. But we do have a 21 degree milwaukee fuel and a Pasload for those times when a hose is just not going to work well. The Pasload is much lighter and the milwaukee almost never sees any use.
If you need an airless gun, strongly consider the passload. You arm will thank you.
From California. Ive always used the 30 degree nailers cause I felt it was easier to to nail with and I hated the plastic shrapnel.
That's cool! I built a lot of things with the 30 degree. It's a great choice.
At 11:32 turn 90 degree, and knock the two positioner tooth to the coloumn, and you get the 50degree for your correct nail connection.
Thanks for your time and effort. I believe you have summed up all the questions pertinent to the 21 and 30Deg nailers.
You're welcome. I appreciate hearing all the comments and feedback.
I realize this is a simple demo, but I typically hold my nailer to the side, or at 90 deg with the magazine when doing toe nailing. I've owned both of these, unfortunately my 21 grew legs one day along with a lot of my tools that were in the back of my truck(yes, with a cable securing them, but we know that locks keep honest people honest.) The performance between the two is pretty much equal. However, the application is different. Yes, they can both be used in the same manner, and unless there is a code, then you must use one or the other. But for interior jobs, like building office walls, then the 30 is my go to because of the plastic debris. Not only is there a mess to clean up, when you are working in close quarters, those pieces tend to hit other people, or even yourself. Even with eye pro, I've had some pieces end up in my eye, especially overhead nailing.
Fortunately, or unfortunately however you look at it, I haven't had any jobs that needed a 21 per code, so I don't need to run out and buy a replacement.
Sorry to hear about your 21, how frustrating! Some good points you made there for people to consider.
@@MarkThomasBuilder , Yeah, it happened the day after Hurricane Ida a few years ago. I was helping some older neighbors do some quick repairs on their house and I was literally in the back yard for less than a minute seeing what I needed. I had a cable going through all of the tools. According to one of the other neighbors he saw them pull up, jump on to my bed, cut the cable, throw the tools into their truck and drive away. He said it was too fast for him to be able to run down and get the plate number, because by the time he figured out what was happening the truck was around the corner. So now I am in the process of replacing them as I perform a job that requires said tool/s or if there is a great deal at HD.
@@jmackinjersey1that hurt reading that. Hopefully you end up with better stuff.
Very good vidgy. Thank you.
Glad you enjoyed it
THANK YOU again for your dedication in making informative, fun videos! ! !
My pleasure, I'm excited the way this video turned out and all the great information that was shared.
I have the 30 degree but wish I bought the 21.
Primary reason : I find that nail options and availability is a lot better for 21. I find a lot more inventory at my local Lowe’s and HD , whereas the 30 is a hit and miss.
I notice more options for 21 in my area too.
Order a 21 extended mag TH-cam the modification and you can use either mag with the same gun.
I have Both framers in Air and in a Bi-State area
I do have to keep in mind what nails are appropriate to town/city,county,and state building codes in the Chicago Land/Calumet region in the United States.
I don't care either way the degree.
Both my framing guns have been running smooth and flawlessly and both weigh the same.
I Actually have every Air Nailer in every size or type of nail available.
I use them like golf clubs and match the right nailer to the right job.
Or any other fastener the customer wants?
I'm not picky 👍
That's interesting. I can relate to having extra tools on hand, like golf clubs. Nothing like having the right tool for the job.🙌
Interesting. Im up in the east coast of Canada where it is indeed a mixed bag.
Awesome video!! I actually bought the 18v Ridgid 21 degree framing nailer because it was on sale for $100 off. But after using it for various projects, the mess it makes with the plastic gets annoying. I did hear though that you can replace the magazine and use an extended magazine to fit more nails, but apparently the 30 degree magazine fits perfectly and works on the 21 degree framing nailer so I'mma buy the 30 degree extended magazine and try it out on my 21 degree. For $70 bucks its worth the test especially if i can have both framing sizes in one nailer.
How did that magazine trade workout?
@@baront3932 Haven't tried it yet. Mag got delivered on Tuesday but I haven't had time to swap it out and get 30° nails for it. Hopefully this weekend I can get to it and I'll follow up with you. I want to do a video of the swap and test too.
@@baront3932 update, I finally got around to installing the 30 degree magazine extension on my 21 degree and it fits perfectly. The top bolts and the bottom bolt all fit perfectly fine without any modifications.
The problem is with the drive pin and the 30 degree clipped head nails. The drive pin is thicker and it catches the 1st and 2nd nail and shoots doubles. I think it's because of the clipped head that's causing the issue since it puts the nails too close to each other.
So yes it does fit, but no it doesn't function properly with clipped head nails. I will try with 30 degree full round head nails and see if there's a difference but I need to find some because around here I haven't seen any. I'll update you once I test that out. I did make a video but I need to edit it so once I do that, I can put the link on here.
The extension is going to change the angle of the tool, so putting 30-degree nails in a 21-degree gun even with a 30-degree extension. 😢
thank you to give some idea and let me see your video
Not a pro by any means so for me 21 with the plastic is way better for the casual user. I have had some of my 21 nails out in the shed for 10 years at least and they still shoot perfect. Not sure if the paper would hold up that long in a damp environment so I don't even want to try.
I have both nailers and love them both, but I have noticed that the 21 degree nailer sometimes struggles to sink in the .148 diameter nails. At least it did for me, and to cover all variables, it was in the cold months in Illinois, and they were the Grip Rite brand nails. It shoots the other diameters perfect. So far, no issues with my 30 degree.
Huh, interesting. I wonder if it's the cold weather or maybe the nitrogen level inside the unit is low?? I haven't tried enough brands of nails to see is some sink in better than others.
@h2s142 Haven't tried shooting nails that diameter with the 30 degree, it's my 21 degree that had the issue sinking them in. I also haven't had the need to shoot shorter nails, but I'm sure it does those just fine. Code in my area allows me to stick to 30 degree nailers.
30 degree for the clean up factor + flexibility. Small jobs eliminate rain/rusting problem.
We need a coil nailer!! My only DeWalt tool
Hopefully they'll have one at the Pipeline event this week! If they do, I'll be sure to post a first hand look at it.
Do the nails cost the same for each nailer ?
The prices aren't too far off, but I believe I heard 30° nails are cheaper.