Is Squirt a Good Chain Lube? | Squirt Wear Test
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
- Eddie tests Squirt bicycle chain lubricant using the friction testing machine - and gets some surprising results. He also tests chain stiffness and drag.
This video was not sponsored by any of the brands mentioned in the video, all opinions are our own.
This video should be considered for entertainment purposes only, any action you take based on the content of this video is strictly "at your own risk".
#simplymountainbiking #SMB #mountainbiking
Enjoyed the video, but I do believe there is a flaw with the friction test vs real world. The friction test you perform is based on two surfaces grinding away at each other constantly which allows the wax based lubricant to melt and displace from the wearing surface effectively leaving the surface in a dry unlubricated state. In the real world the drive train has a wear cycle where the lubricant on the chain is 'heated' by friction at the cassette, jockey wheels and chain rings but allowed to effectively cool in between these points allowing the lubricant to not melt and therefore not displace.
Most lubricant testings that have been performed are on rigs that mimic the usage of a chain in real world conditions (generally only for single speed); these put squirt right up there as being one of the top lubricants for longevity next to wax lubes. I think this video and the previous testing proves one thing and that is that lubricants have specific use cases, there is no best lubricant for a bicycle chain, there is just a better lubricant for the conditions/distance you are riding and the frequency of your chain cleaning and re-lubricating regime, this is why companies like muc off make different lubricants for different conditions.
Thanks for sharing! -Eddie
I am using Squirt on all my bikes since 2014. My Dura Ace 9000 transmission still has the originals pulley wheels, cassete sprockets and chain rings after 35000 kms wirh no signs of wear. My KMCs chains lasts 8000 kms until 0.5% chain streching on road and 2500 kms on the dirt. I really don't care about .2 pounds of chain drag compared to oil based lubes. The longevity of the parts worth it. Nice video and keep the good work!
Thank you! -Eddie
Drag is going to be directly proportional to friction which is proportional to wear. Another lube would have given you greater component life. Living in a dry area, I also feel like my components last so long that I only change chains every two years just because I'm tired of looking at the old one.
Using kmc chain with dura ace. Freaking masochists with that shit kmc
I used MucOff Dry on my MTB (KMC chain) and got 2000km before the chain was cooked - as yes regular cleans etc. Switched to Squirt and definately a big improvement in chain noise reduction and less need to top up.. also qith Squirt you layer up the chain over time and while it may look "messy" I dont care. I want prolonged drivetrain life!
How do you apply it? And how did you clean the chain before using it and in between uses?
Finally! Someone doing project farm style stuff with bikes!!!! Keep doing these!!!!!
Thanks! Will do! -Eddie
I love project farm too 😁
I know right!!!
@@SimplyMountainBiking I submitted and idea to project farm a while ago about comparing expensive bike grease to marine grease etc. to see if there is any really difference. It would be cool if you compared different bike grease and 'regular' greases.
@@mushieslushie Yeah, like resistence on well-packed cup and cone (most shimano wheel hubs) bearings with shimano special bearing grease, some high grade grease from a DIY/hardware store - like the red stuff in the standard plastic grease tube which says Made in USA on it with boats and tractors on the tube, and a generic cheap grease. This would be highly interesting, also if wear could somehow be tested... but such test could be highly "wearing"
I've used regular paraffin wax on my chains over the last few years and one thing I like about was is it's ability to shed wet mud and water. The downside to wax is that you really have to thoroughly clean the chain when are ready to soak the chain. I usually have 5 chains that I rotate during the year and when I get down to the last one i throw the other 4 in an ultrasonic cleaner for a while before moving them over to my mini crock pot that always has the wax in it.
I've also started using Silca's Super Secret chain lube (the stuff in the bottle) and while I do like it, you still need to thoroughly chain that chain first and wait 24 hours after applying it. It makes the drivetrain super quiet.
Having said all that, the I've never gotten either wax to last long enough to finish a backpacking trip, so if I'm going on one, I'll usually strip a chain and bring along an oil based lube rather than bring along a 2nd chain. A small bottle of lube is way lighter and takes up less space.
Thanks for sharing! -Eddie
I went on a multi day trip with a waxed chain. After 450k it got noisy (normally I rewax after 200). I have taken a bottle with the Oz cycle recipe of wax in IPA. Reapply every 100k. Not perfect but the price I am willing to pay for a clean drive train. BTW: nice channel, directly subscribed.
I used to have experience relatively short intervals between rewaxing, but a couple of years ago I started increasing the temperature of the bath (to 230-250ºF) and have had much better longevity since. I’ve also increased the proportion of PTFE in the bath. It all seems to help.
Great tests, nice job, thanks for your excellent video!
2 things though...Heat and dirt.
1. Your friction testing machine creates enough heat to melt away wax lubes...while a real bike chain being used does not. So by including heat at this level, your test is not relevant to the reality of how bike chains work in the real world.
2. You tested clean chains. No chains in the real world are clean. The main benefit of wax lubes is that they work like a mud guard to keep dirt out. They also shed over time, taking dirt away with them. By contrast, oil based lubes capture, or at least allow dirt to remain on the chain, and create a grinding compound. So absent dirt, your test is not relevant to how bike chains are used in the real world.
Ive used both oil and wax lubes before. I have no dog in this fight. But its only fair to make the tests actually test under real world use conditions.
Thanks again for your excellent video. Please consider redoing the tests accurately.
Hmm - you really made me wonder how much heat is created in a chain when pedaling... -Eddie
@@SimplyMountainBiking Its a good question to ask. I can put out a solid 500 watts for a minute. At the end of that, my chain is absolutely cool, even with petroleum based lube.
So id say you need to tune your test to the amount of power a normal person can put out continuously. Id guess around 200 watts or so for a fit person.
Drop the heat to that level of friction and watch the paraffin "lube" beat every other one, just as they do on every semi scientific test.
Cheers, friend!
@@marcalvarez4890 wouldnt you need to run the test for hours at 200 watts so sort introduce another hard variable (doesnt squirt state to re apply after about 6 hours (i my self hate squirt never got it not to gunk up was always a black mess))
Considering nobody can liquefy a candle by jumping on it, considering all the transmission act as a cooling system, and considering a solid lub can't escape from a chain inner roller, I don't see any friction realistic test except to rebuild a fake bike transmission around your motor, and spray some sand and water on the rotating chain. Perhaps simulate 300km like this with 3 lubes, and measure the chain length and the lateral flex before and after. Challenging 😄
@@simedinson984 black mess means your chain was not cleaned properly before install
I use Squirt for one reason. It keeps the chain quiet. I've found that a fresh coat is as silent as a brand new chain. I really don't care about wear since I just buy the cheapest brand name chain I can find and replace it often. But now I know what to buy if I ever decide to switch it up, or if I want to extent the life of a fancy chain.
That's an interesting perspective! -Eddie
that simple weight pull test results is so consistent. that means it's a great method!
Totally agree! -Eddie
The first thing I notice using squirt is metallic smell on the chain ring after each ride. its an indication of metal to metal rubbing. I have since move away from squirt to rock and roll extreme for both MTB and Road.
That's an interesting observation. Thanks for sharing! -Eddie
Oh seems you doing original observations, problem that they are worthless.
Eddie, can you test Squirt’s e-bike chain wax? It has high-pressure additives added and claims “Near zero friction in all conditions”. Love your content. Thanks for sharing.
Great suggestion! I'll add it to the list of lubes to try for a viewer's choice video. Thanks! -Eddie
Great video Eddie. The issue I’ve been having with Squirt is that it seems to stay tacky for a very long time. Another dry lube I’ve used is TruTension all weather which I didn’t have this problem.
Yes, I agree it stays tacky - even after 18 months hanging in my garage - my test length is still sticky to the touch! -Eddie
There is a major flaw with testing chain lubricants like this. Bicycle chains are not subjected to this kind of force or friction heat, and as such, the chain lubricates in this test are not formulated for such protection.
Thank you for your feedback. -Eddie
I thought the advantage of wax based lubricates, they don't attract dirt and grit which will keep the chain cleaner.
The heat in this test is indeed problematic. But the pressure inside a chain is comparable, if not higher. Estimate you push 20kgf on the pedal, that gets multiplied a factor of say three. Therefore we have 600 Newtons in the chain easily. Let's presume the bearing diameter in the chain is 5mm and the width is 2mm. Gives us 10 square millimeters. 600N over 10mm² is 60N/mm², or 60Mpa or 8700psi. That is at the top any lubricant can handle.
As someone who is a scientist and mountain biker I love this stuff. Great content and channel 👊🏻
Glad you enjoy it! -Eddie
My response to all this because I switched to Squirt and found it really good. I feel some kind of lube regularly is better than no lube and waiting until the chain is noisy and rusty before lube is applied. the lube needs to be bike lube and not something from the cupboard or 10-30 motor oil or WD-40, which is used to clean bores of an Army M1A1 tank.
Yeah. Regular maintenance and just about any lube is good. -Eddie
Your findings are interesting, wish I had numbers from the other test as well. What I can tell you is this: I have used this lube on road, mtn and fatbikes for 13 years. what I find is that my drivetrain is lasting longer than some of the other lubes I've used in the past. In fact tried this one winter on my fatbike, with the existing drivetrain and never cleaned the drivetrain until the following spring. I live in Maine, so lots of snow, lots of salt on the roads in the winter months( I ride roads to trails in the winter months) and had very good luck. One thing that is different is that as a mechanic/shop owner, I always put lube on the bushings in the chain only. I've NEVER had stiff links in a chain regardless of which bike I'm using. I guess what I'm saying is that I like Squirt, and have lots of years os usage and many customers. But then again, that's one of the reasons that we have so many options out there.Thanks for sharing!
Thank you for sharing your experience! -Eddie
Thanks for testing wax. While I don't doubt your wear test, I'm convinced it must be superior over longer periods of time. I've had a few waxed chains outlast others by hundreds of hours of riding, so something must be going on.
Thanks for sharing! -Eddie
It’s more important how those lubricants performs after tens / hundreds of miles. When they will be partially worn out and contaminated with sand or dust.
Thank you for your comment. -Eddie
Great video! Thanks for all your work in creating these videos! I hope to see Finish Line dry and wet lubes as well as Muc-Off wet lube in future videos. Thanks again!
Great suggestion! -Eddie
I love this testing. Hope to see more.
More on the way! - Eddie
As a wax-based lube, I think it makes sense that the wax on the surface of the lube will be got ripped off after a few spins. So it is not very surprising to see the result: it is close to not use lube at all. Still, since wax actually stays inside the nodes of the chain, I think this can make a great difference.
Anyways, I think this is THE most comprehensive chain lube test I have seen, good job.
I am running squirt for my m9100 chain, so far so good. At least it does keep the chain very clean compared to wet lube. (I live near tropical area and it rains all the time)
I swear that my chain wear is unobservable after I used squirt for a couple of hundred kms. Maybe it makes a difference that the tool just dan shrug off the wax from the wheel, while in the chain it is enclosed tightly in small spaces.
In the end I don't want to use oil anymore to lube my chains.
I don't see how it can't get pushed out and not be able to flow back in... -Eddie
@@RelakS__ I do find it very difficult to get squirt into the chain node of 12sp chains. The rollers are so tightly fitted that lube like squirt can have a very difficult time trying to get into the rollers. But I do find it is much easier for 11sp and 10sp chains like 11sp ultegra and 10sp tiagra. The gap between the chain rollers and links are wide enough for the lube to flow into it.
Still, I evetually went for silca's wax lube. Expensive and worth it for 12sp chains.
@@SimplyMountainBiking After drying out, squirt is basically wax and no more, no additional material like teflon powders or whatsoever. So I don't feel like it can 'flow' anymore after the water in the lube vaporize. Still, according to zerofrictioncycling's tset, the main problem about squirt is that it has huge initial application problem (hard to get the lube into the rollers).
For me it's all about the cleanliness of the lube during real use, even if it's not the most efficient. I appreciate the testing, thank you for putting the work.
I like Squirt, Cerabike (same thing just from Spain) or Inmersion waxing because they "seal" the rollers to outside debris. And that's what makes a long lasting chain, like others have already tested. And that's what i'm going for with my bikes, not ultimate performance.
I tend to think that the .2 lbs (90gf) would be reduced in less than a 2km ride, but i see how that would skew the testing. I dont think any lube could make that big of a difference in drivetrain efficiency (10%)
Thanks for your comment! -Eddie
I appreciate the time and effort you put into these tests. In typical fashion I bought something before looking at in depth reviews like these and scooped up a bottle of squirt.
The results about squirt in the wet test are curious for me because my thinking is, I can spray the sand off my drivetrain with my garden hose and the wax will stay intact after each ride. I live in FL, all of our trails are sand so this might be a good solution
Thanks again
Yes - I'm finding that my needs are very different from those living in dry or sandy areas. My solution may not work for everyone. -Eddie
The wax trend is absolutely bonkers to me.
I know, right? I think "trend" hits the nail on the head. -Eddie
These videos are great! Subscribed! Keep it up.
Awesome, thank you! -Eddie
Thank you for your continued testing. This video is very useful and gives us a more objective view of the lubrication effect close to the actual scene.
Thank you! -Eddie
Hey Eddie, I appreciate the time and effort you put into these videos. But your test setup and its results seems to disagree with ZeroFrictionCycling AU's tests. I'm sure you know the long report they wrote a while ago if you dive deep into chain lube testing. Squirt lube ranked very high in nearly all test categories, particularly in chain wear and efficiency. Why do you think you are seeing almost opposite results in your test? I'm suspecting it has something to do with the difference in test setups. I'm curious to know your thoughts. Thanks!
I'm not sure why. The friction tester tests, in a lab setting, the wear protection of lubricants. Something about the chain perhaps? -Eddie
@@SimplyMountainBiking you can understand what is different if you read the (somewhat a monster of, admittedly) PDF that accompany those tests, though Squirt is perhaps the worst of all wax lubes because, as much as I suspect, this is basically some sort of off-the-shelf wax emulsion that is 'dime a gallon' with cocaine-like markup... but it still works! Basically, why wax lubes work so well (but the best of them is immersive hot waxing lubes actually) because wax or otherwise solid lubricants get 'trapped' in the pin-plate wear interface that does NOT rotate 360 deg during pedalling, but articulate on a rather limited angle - as it is apparent for anyone who have seen pin wear patterns on an old chain. That allows the wax to retain in friction interface and 'reflow' into pin-plate friction interface as chain articulates, shits, runs around deraileur jockeys, etc. Personally, I've made my own waxing blend with some automotive antiwear additives and a combination of 1/3 paraffin wax, 1/3 beeswax and 1/3 of antiwear additives - if you don't wanna mess with them your best bet would be some high-end marine or agricultural GREASE, preferably calcum sulfonate one because it has great antiwear properties. This stuff works great in ALL conditions and extends like of the chain 10xfold - it is true, just like ZFC tests. The key to good performance is good CONSISTENCY of the wax (and you can only get this with immersive waxing) - it needs to be hard, pliable yet and NOT tacky at all. This way, after immersive waxing, it forms a sort of 'o-ring' inside friction pairs that plugs it from dirt and water ingress (to a point, of course), and gets very slowly consumed lubricating the chain. I am easily getting 1000 km PER APPLICATION and I have a test chain that I monitor wear on - comparing it to a new chain after washing both very clean with solvent... well, after about 15 thousand km of use it is about 2mm longer. The chain is of relatively unknown manufacturer - Taya OCTA SL, top of their range so it might also play a role. You should really try immersive waxing, THAT is a true quantum leap in chain maintenance.
@@Balorng Interesting! Tell me more about the anti-wear additives, and also why the beeswax? I’m currently using paraffin + teflon, with about 1/3 Molten because I had it around.
Thank you for the add on video addressing many of the reservations from the previous chain lube video. In many ways you were seriously thorough in addressing concerns.
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I'd like to see those lubricity tests done again. This time, with your cup filled with just the actual lubricant AFTER the carrier has evaporated off. The static test with Squirt on the cylinder is only good as long as the grease is intact. This isn't a fair test against other things where they are actively flowing over the wheel. I think even the Muck Off lubricity test is invalid. It has a lot of floating grease in a carrier and isn't an actual test of just the lubricant. A chain dries out fairly quickly with use. That leaves behind the lubricant and no carrier. I could be wrong about Muck Off if it is actually an oil with no carrier. Just pointing out that the lubricity tests were not done how many of the chain lubes are intended to be used or the final state of the lube once it is applied to a chain. I'm betting other chain lubes perform much better than your initial results say they did. Just the lubricant in the cup for each one needs to be tested with no carrier fluid.
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Id like to see the sling test redone. Give each lubricant an hour so all the carrier can evaporate. Then spin the chain. I bet lots more of them don't sling oil or grease.
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THE stickiness on the paper with sand test...that one was great!.
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The test with the scale and weights to test how easy or hard it is to pedal. LOVED IT! PLEASE do this for all the lubes after they have had the instructions for each one followed. This is a good proof of lubrication in actual application. Do you have a torque sensor in your BB? Is it sensitive enough to measure this level of torque? That's a good test if it is!
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Would you mind adding Finish Line please? When I first bought it long ago, it was supposedly the best stuff. I'd love to see if that is true.
Thanks for your comment - very thoughtful. I do not have a torque sensor in my BB. Finish Line will almost certainly be included in a viewer's choice video. -Eddie
@@SimplyMountainBiking Probably a BB torque sensor would not read the force needed to turn a free spinning wheel since that is a "no load" scenario. Thanks for replying back. IT shows that you care about what you do.
Very profesionally done. Kuddos for that (half of the kuddos went to the farm guy, doing high grade of tests at his... well, farm). There are several companies selling the MucOff-stuff in my country, haven't yet gotten the time to get it on the autumn rebates - but am planning this week. I have abt. 5 bikes and three kid-bikes in need of maintenance. That said, after googling for chain lubricants, this product (from the video) started to appear in my Aliexpress feed... which made me slightly suspicious. This test confirms the suspicions. Greetings from Latvia and keep on riding!
Hey, thanks a lot! -Eddie
I use squirt lube for 2 years and is the best! I put a new chain last year and has 600km on it and more than 300 km on hard climbs and it has no wear on it. I just love this lube and i will not change it for nothing. With normal chain oil i have to replace the chain after 800-1000 km even if i clean the chain after every run.
Then you’re doing something very wrong. You should get 3 - 5000 km on a chain easily.
I just swapped the chain on my road bike (SRAM flat top) because it had reached .5 wear. I had it on the bike for ~4200km and always used just whatever random lube I had on hand (muc off, finish line, etc.)
Thanks for sharing. -Eddie
Doesn't chain under tension load behave differently with the medium of lubes?
One would think? -Eddie
oh wow! cheers for adding this video. I was also wondering where squirt would end up. great stuff!
Thanks for watching! -Eddie
After getting sucked into all the hype & drama surrounding bicycle chain lubes, I've decided to go the cheap route.
1) Simple Green to degrease
2) Champion Lithium Chain Lube (Water Proof)
3) Super Tech Bar & Chain Oil (Heavy Duty)
4) Enclosed chain cleaning gizmo so I don't have to remove my chain every time.
Everything purchased at Walmart, including my Huffy Shimano 18 speed MTB. Why spend alot on designer chain ube for a a Walmart bike??
Seriously can't go wrong with this. -Eddie
@@SimplyMountainBiking I found out the Champion Lithium Motorcycle Chain Lube goes on liquid and dries into a gooey solid, kinda like wax. But you can see it & it looks messy. So I talked to the bicycle assembler at Walmart where I bought my MTB. He recommended WD40 Silicon spray & WD40 Dry Lube with Teflon!! That's what he used on his own bike. Walmart also sells their own off brand version of Silicon Lube spray at half the price of WD40. So that's what I'm using now. I'll go broke using these designer bike lubes that are too much for my Walmart bike which I adore. I love BOTH of my Walmart MTB's. 24inch & 26inch. I'm spending my money on bike accessories, which adds up quickly!!
This is super interesting! Could you do a video comparing wax to wet and dry chain lubricants? I would love to see that!
Great suggestion! -Eddie
I really like these tests, I wish these had been done with the other lubes. Even the wet lubes should be allowed time to dry, to see if they form an emulsion or get tacky, and see how it affects performance.
Thanks for the comment. -Eddie
Chain lube should NOT use friction tester / Look up Zerofriction testing
ZFC is a distributor of MSW and employed by a lube manufacturer. I'm just a dude in my garage. -Eddie
th-cam.com/video/7YxaMRSxilY/w-d-xo.html
I mean a lot of road cycling companies have done tests with wax lubes, and often see a benefit in terms of chain life and watts. A better way to test would be to have 2 power meters one on the cranks and one on the wheel. This is how they usually test efficiency of chain lubes. I get that's probably not easy or affordable to reproduce. Also waxing a chain usually means cleaning the chain thoroughly with solvents and then submerging it entire in hot wax.
Yeah - I'm thinking for road, wax might be good. -Eddie
These are world-class reviews. Bravo!
Thank you! -Eddie
I think my favorite aspect of squirt is how quiet it can be. Especially on a road bike where the only noise is often your chain. Dirt from the desert seems to be less likely to stick too. Haven’t noticed any drag caused compared to muc off or epic. Of course, a quarter pound is a very small percentage of my body weight when accelerating from a stop.
Great point! -Eddie
I found Squirt to be loud.
@@justinwbohner you're not using it correctly
i have used many chain lubricants and in real would testing on my bikes found squirt or really most wax emulsions is the cleanest and gives me the best life out of my chains 10,000km+ 0.5% wear.
with muc off its not really dry but just gets sticky as the solvent evaporates away and have found that after little time in wet conditions all lubrication is striped out of the chain negating the better wear in your testing, but with wax i have ridden 3 hours in the rain and lubrication of the chain is still good.
best benefit of the wax lubricates is that they are truly dry and leave little if any residue on chain rings cassettes and jockey wheels unlike muc off if you touch the chain you are getting black hands.
In the conditions I ride, I need to clean the chain regardless of what I put on it every 5 rides or so. I'd much rather have something easy to clean off, in my case. -Eddie
Thanks for the follow up video on Squirt. Very interesting.
Glad you enjoyed it -Eddie
Isn't the Muc-Off Dry Lube that won your chain lube shootout also wax-based? I'm surprised there is such a large difference in performance between Muc-Off Dry Lube and Squirt. Any theories on why that might be? I'm not familiar with either of the two lubes to know how they look/feel when applied to a chain.
I think it may be the PTFE in the Muc-Off? -Eddie
@@SimplyMountainBiking Where did you read that Muc-Off contains PTFE, Eddie? Their website says it is biodegradable.
@@pjdjr Someone else replied to the video that MucOff Dry had PTFE and was not biodegradable. I looked into it and found inconsistent ingredients. Someone pointed out that you can have a percentage of PTFE and still call your product biodegradable in some countries. I honestly was left unsure.
Wow, I'll have to look into that as well. Pretty interesting if it turns out to be the case. Thanks for your reply, Eddie!
@@SimplyMountainBiking Take this for what it is worth, but I wrote to Muc-Off and asked if there is PTFE in their Bio Dry Lube (your shootout winner) and they replied, "No, it did used to [contain PTFE] but the new Bio version does not contain any PTFE....As a brand we are trying to avoid PTFE in any of our products!" I have seen some (seemingly older) Muc-Off dry lube online that explicitly mentions PTFE on the label. Just speculation, but the product you tested has the current packaging, so I am thinking the lube you tested is PTFE-free.
I used wax once. I went back to oil two days later. Wax is only good to keep a chain looking good on pictures or to show it off to your friends.
I have a similar experience, though I used it for a few months in gravel bikes visiting mostly dirt roads. I reapplied squirt every 100km the day before. The chain looked clean, no dirt was accumulating but the chain lasted 800 km :/
@@michahubert1179 800 km is awfully little. I'd have to replace my chain twice a month...
I'm afraid there's no replacement for cleaning rags and lubing the chain regularly with an oil based lube. I use hydraulic oil thinned with diesel (specially in the winter) for application, and let it dry overnight.
Thanks for sharing! -Eddie
Hello Eddie. thanx for the revisit of the Squirt test. I've used it for over 5 years now, but since I first saw your ultimate test, I've been considering using R&R Gold. but my concern now is how long does it last compared to squirt. I've seen a few vids praising R&R with only downside been how it lasts compared to wax. some ppl say they have to relube in the same ride? Any thoughts about this? thanx again!
Thanks for your question - I ride MTB strictly and so I may not have the field experience you're looking for to compare. I did not have any mid-ride failures of R&R when I used it, but my long rides are generally 1.5 - 2 hours and under 20 miles. -Eddie
Very interesting. I have been using Squirt for years and had no issues with wear. I may need to go back to my old lube and start cleaning my chain after every ride.
Yeah - I'm not sure Squirt's formula is great for wear protection. -Eddie
@@SimplyMountainBiking Yeah - it is.
Add ptfe to the candle wax !!
I bet that would work quite well. -Eddie
Great stuff! Thank you!
Glad you liked it! -Eddie
I have to agree. I'm not sure why all the hype around squirt. I'm not going to be buying a new bottle. I'd be curious to hear what you think of the work of zero friction cycling. He doesn't hype squirt but is the biggest advocate of wax based lubes (full immersion)
Here's a thought that just occurred to me. If wax is so good, why don't new chains from Shimano, SRAM, etc. come pre-waxed. It has to be cheaper than Sil-Tec (Shimano) and GLEITMO (SRAM). -Eddie
well, the stuff that comes on the chains isn't really for lubrication. It may have some lubricating properties, but from my understanding it's mostly to protect the chain while in storage. It's called cosmoline and the the military uses the same stuff on their equipment to protect it for storage. At least this is my understanding. @@SimplyMountainBiking
Just found this cuz I bought SQUIRT for my eBike due to the good reviews... Now I wanna throw it into the garbage. Awesome videos BTW!!! Keep it up!!! Subscribed. Cheers!
Glad I could help! -Eddie
Go ride in the real world not a lab dude. Then you will see why you bought Squirt based on real life reviews. Eddie's testing is great to watch and super interesting, but its lab based. Chuck in some real life trails and the variables change massively.
This level of rigour is absolutely essential for a meaningful review of lubes. Thank you!
Thanks! -Eddie
Hey Eddie said he didn't love his teddy....
Eddy bro - have you ever ridden a bike outside in dust,mud,slime,rain etc?Just cool, hot dust will do.For about two to three hours or how some mtb transalp champions do for about 4-5 hours in actual mtb transalp conditions and be the winners after seven days average 4-5 hours a day and EXTREMELY HAPPY WITH THEIR CHAINS PERFORMANCE?Transalp MTB Race winners four years in a row?
You seriously need to get a good wax film on your chain so that it can really protect and lube your chain.Give it a chance to perform!
A lab does not do it,Ed. Just like an Amsterdam doll does not do it,bro!
Get out there,ride a few hours,do not clean the chain,brush off,lube again,ride again.Repeat.Guaranteed that with a thorough real test on a real trail you will get real results,as shared by MTB World Champs and millions of normal happy guys worldwide.
Same as having the good stuff as opposed to a laboratory designed Amsterdam doll .
Try it Eddie- you will like it much better.Do it outside!
Thanks for your feedback.
How do other lubes fair in your drag test? I don't remember that being part of the previous tests
I'm not sure - I only set up the drag test for Squirt because it felt sticky to me. -Eddie
I wonder if Squirt Wax improves after a bit on the bike, with the chain warming up & thus the wax becomes less stiff? I honestly don’t know because assuming the chain moves more & is potentially warmer, means you’re moving at faster speeds and thus the additional temp is negated by the movement & wind. It might actually become cooler when riding fast…
Perhaps? -Eddie
A chain warming up significantly from stiff lubricant would be bad. Would cost a lot of power.
What tires are you running on the Stache? That back one looks meaty!!!
They are Vee Bulldozers. They are meaty! Unfortunately, I'll be changing them out soon. They weep a significant amount of sealant from the sidewalls after every time they get wet. -Eddie
I love your testing methods!!
Thank you! -Eddie
Well done! Im squirt user and nfs chain lube. What i feel, the nfs much smoother than squirt, but nfs attract dirt. But, after this video i will stick with NFS even though attract more dirt! Have you ever try NFS?
Thanks for sharing! I haven't tried NFS. -Eddie
One thing I do not agree with with the wearscar test is that there is nothing to recreate the motion of the chain when it is not under load. That is when the wax lube usually gets put back into place and is ready for the moment of when it is under load.
I would respectfully disagree that wax could get "put back into place" because its viscosity is so high. Maybe some of the lower viscosity lubes like Purple Extreme - but never wax-based. -Eddie
What about muc-off, the previous winner, how does it handle the friction test, if it is given time to dry out and doesn't get replenished?
I am very curious whether it will also be scraped off since it is a dry lube.
Or any of the others for that matter, after having been resting over night. They might show very different characteristics in that case, considering their different viscosities and lube content.
In the first video, I do test Muc-off fully dry. It does extremely well - beating wax for sure. -Eddie
This is interesting, I just switched to Squirt. I was using R&R gold (your 2nd choice) for years. I live in Arizona so dry, dusty, and hot. R&R gold was great for about 1.5 hours of riding than a noticeable difference in performance. If I was doing a long ride, I would have to apply a different lube or bring extra. With R&R it is worth noting, that at the end of almost every ride I would scrape off dirty wax on each derailleur wheel. I am noticing the same thing with squirt, the difference is it lasts a lot longer between applying.
It is has been awhile since I have used a true lube, because in dry conditions, they just attract a lot of dirt. What I noticed with a lube that stuck to the chain is it stuck there with all the dirt and grime. I would have to clean the chain a lot more often and would get black goo every where if something rubbed against the chain.
I enjoyed the videos, and the tests. I appreciated a perspective relevant or not for each test. I did use Pedro's X-dry lube for long rides with the R&R Gold. I had good results, I am guessing it is very similar to Muc-off Dry. So, if Squirt is not as amazing in AZ as the comments, then I will try Muc-Off.
Yes - I live in the moist southeast - so not a lot of dry grit just blowing around in the wind here! -Eddie
Project Farm of bikes! Subscribed
Thanks! -Eddie
Thanks for the helpful information! What are your thoughts on ProLink chain lube?
I've never tried it. I'll add it to the list for potential viewer's choice test video. Thanks! -Eddie
@@SimplyMountainBiking Thanks! Appreciate all you do for the MTB community.
Very interesting testing methods and a good watch
Friction Facts , prior to ceramic speed acquiring them, and Zero Friction Cycling have wax lubricants at the top of their testing.
Don’t know if you’re familiar with Oz Cyles who’s a wax user. He’s found paraffin wax with PTFE added as the gold standard. The PTFE is what adds the adhesion.
Curious if this mixture would return better results.
Thank you very much! I'll check it out. -Eddie
@@SimplyMountainBiking Eddie here’s the link. th-cam.com/video/HHr9znwpwmQ/w-d-xo.html
Yeah, that fricton test machine isn't really an appropriate test for chain lubricants. That machine is really simulating a high-speed, high load bushing type of wear. The type of wear that a chain experiences is more of a very slow speed, somewhat high load application, and the lubricant is assumed to be contained within the chain link (unless it isn't). I really don't see how you can effectively test a wax based lubricant using that machine. In this case, I think that the only way to really evaluate the performance of chain lubricants is to conduct some sort of simulated ride testing using actual chains and derailleurs, much like the testing done by the Zero Friction Cycling Channel.
Thank you for your feedback. -Eddie
You have to put more effort into the initial chain cleaning for lubes like squirt to be effective. A few baths of mineral turps followed by methylated spirits is what you need to truly clean a chain. Just using degreaser and a park tool chain cleaner isn't going to do a good job of actually cleaning a chain prior to applying any type of wax based lube. You should also heat up the lube and chain before applying to increase penetration inside the links.
I'd rather buy a new $60 chain every 500 miles. Thank you. -Eddie
It's astounding how many manufacturers recommendations you have to break just to put an inferior lubricant on your chain. The day I see wax being used for industrial roller chain lubrication is the day I will try it myself. So that's never 😂
great answer! thank you for your job!
My pleasure! -Eddie
can you test Squirt vs Morgan blue dry wax
I'll see if I can find Morgan Blue - never heard of it. -Eddie
I bought one bottle of Squirt and was not impressed. Within a few kilometers after a fresh application I can feel the lubrication is not good. Also a very rusty chain if not applied every ride.
Thanks for sharing -Eddie
Oh yes - you can do it with the same drive chain at least twice as long using Squirt Lube - really lubes and protects against friction.
Thanks.
One more metric. Wet lube against dust or loose dirt. Does using wet lube in dusty conditions wear more than wax.
Yeah - it's beginning to dawn on me that many of the folks who comment on wax lubes hail from geographic regions where dry, dusty conditions are the norm. My typical experience is damp and sometimes muddy riding... -Eddie
another great video. Wow thank you for your honest opinion based on facts instead of gut feel like usual in biking^^ Greetings from Germany
Hey, thanks! -Eddie
So which lube is best ?
Check out my Ultimate Bicycle Lubricant Test or "Best Chain Lube" video! -Eddie
Haha. I'm just going to stick to Tri-Flow then. Yeah my chain ends up blacker than the Ace of Spades after 100 miles but I just prefer Tri-Flow to anything else I have tried.
I think where I've landed is that many lubes work and cleaning your chain often is the way to go with MTB. -Eddie
Thanks for the test! These after the questions I've been wondering about for a good while now. I moved to squirt mostly for it's advantages in rainy/dirty circumstances, the lubes tend to disappear after 100km in rain, while squirt remains. The main advantage for me is sealing the rollers which prevents muck coming in the chain and thus reducing the life of the chain (and cogs) I've always felt there probably was a penalty in drag, good to see you answered that question! Very much appreciated and big high five from the (often rainy) Netherlands 🙂👍
Greetings - thanks for sharing! -Eddie
Hearing some are using Canola Oil. It would be curious to see your results from testing Canola Oil.
Great suggestion! I'm considering an "unconventional lubes" video soon. Stay tuned! -Eddie
it would be interesting to see what drag the other lubricants had
Yes - it would! -Eddie
You did not apply squirt as the manufactory recommends since you did not wiped off the exes….
Thanks for the comment. -Eddie
Understand that your current video is about chain lube.hope that you can produce a video comparing some different brands of grease.Anyway,thanks for the nice video
Great suggestion! -Eddie
@@SimplyMountainBiking really looking forward for that~
Thanks for listening to the viewers and made a video to contest your point. I gonna sub this channel..
Much appreciated! -Edddie
Have you tested boeshield?
I'm pretty certain it will be in a viewer's choice video - it comes highly recommended! -Eddie
Bill Nye the Cycling Science Guy
Haha - Thanks! -Eddie
I do think Squirt is bit overrated, but I don't think these tests are fair or reasonable.
The test on the bike, for example. That just isn't a well-cleaned chain. Wax emulsion type lubes are known to not play nicely with other lubes. they need a clean chain for the first application to bond correctly to the metal. The clean in this video was more of a wipe down and there would have been huge amounts of old lube and dirt left inside the chain.
The friction test seems to give a false result on lubrication ability as it will mostly have worn off by the time you are at the end. It seems to me that this is a test for longevity of lube, and very little to do with how good the lube is if it is regularly reapplied.
I do recommend Squirt to some friends who I know are just not going to maintain their chain much, but with the caveat that the first application needs a hell of a lot of work. There are obviously better options out there, but it's a far better product than this video suggests.
Fair points - but...
No one wants to watch 5 minutes of me cleaning the chain. It was cleaned with a solvent bath and brush with the chain cleaner several times, then saturated with simple green, wiped, blown dry, and then allowed stand for over an hour before I applied the Squirt.
Now, if I have to do more than that, I would rather buy a $60 chain every 1k miles. 🙂 -Eddie
@@SimplyMountainBiking You get to do far less maintenance than that if the first application is good! One of the benefits to Squirt is that once you've done a proper application it's very low maintenance. You can just wipe the chain down and reapply and you basically never need to degrease. BUT that first application needs to be good.
The problem with those chain cleaner type solvent baths is they really are ineffective at cleaning the bits that matter on the inside of the chain. This is why you will have a lot of lube leftover on the inside even if it looks clean.
So what you've actually got here is a thin solid coating of Squirt sat on top of the old wet lube... which basically means you aren't even lubricating with Squirt, rather it's just a bad watered-down version of the original lube!
I used wax for a chain and ended up destroying a cassette, chain and new chinerings
Thanks for sharing! -Eddie
@@SimplyMountainBiking I used the formula from the Oz cyclist I do like most of his stuff but his mixture of paraffin wax and PTFE just did not work at all for me.
@@darrengarvie8832 Wow - that is very interesting. So many people believe in it... -Eddie
Sorry but in my opinion your wear test is neglecting the geometry of the chain and the pulley wheels. The adhesion on a drivetrain is higher with the squirt compared to regular lube and this is pretty obvious because the drivetrain is waxy instead of dirty, meaning that lubrication is always there whereas the lubes adhere less. On the other hand your test proves the worse lubrication property of squirt but taking into account my comment the drivetrain is always lubricated with squirt. In my book always lubricated is better than lubricated better but for a short amount of time. Your kinked chain shows the strong surface adhesion squirt has.
Your 2nd test on the friction/drag makes complete sense.
Thanks for taking the time.
Watch the Ultimate Bicycle Chain Lubricant Test to see how Squirt performed with a constant supply of lube. -Eddie
theory vs Praxis is always a bit different.
u have to consider that wax doesn't has that much grime build up, which increases the longevity. But this is hard to measure. probably for people who clean their chain every ride
wax got no benefit..buf maybe for lazy people who don't want to clean that often.
Yep! -Eddie
Wish I saw this video before I bought a bottle of squirt...anybody want some? There are so few actual lube tests online, this is awesome!
Thank you! -Eddie
This is interesting but does not duplicate actual real world conditions including longevity, wear caused by dirt sticking to lubricants or even the mechanics of rollers, pins , etc.
Thank you for your feedback. -Eddie
Squirt is best!
Thank you for your feedback. -Eddie
Sorry a Brugger Test does not mimic anything that is going on in a bicycle chain on a bicycle. This is like pretending to mimic dry dust riding conditions by using a sandblasting machine.
In a chain the links slowly rotate
Thanks for sharing. -Eddie
What about good ole mystery oil?
Excellent suggestion! -Eddie
Try the new e-mtb squirt !!
Maybe some day... -Eddie
Good video! :)
Thanks! -Eddie
Bike lubes aren't supposed to bear those kind of friction forces you put them up against here..these tests are simply pointless in a real world bike pedaling scenario, so don't confuse people..
Thank you for the comment. -Eddie
wax lubes are terrible, but they have GREAT marketing for now. No one in mechanical industry use wax lubes or paraffin, but here you have cyclists being duped.
Exactly. -Eddie
Yep. I don't know anybody who waxes their chain, none of my local bike shops sell wax or offer waxing service, no pro teams I know of use it, nor does industry. So the amount of videos recommending it, as well as all the approving comments, smell of a viral marketing campaign to me, as they do not reflect reality.
Squirt is the worst lube and a bad example of wax based lube. All of the negatives you mention are apparent with squirt. I have found the tru tension wax lube great and rock n roll is a great option too
Thanks for sharing! -Eddie
Grease test next. Common
Great suggestion! -Eddie
Hey man ! How is the clavicle healing up ?
Thanks for asking! At this point, my left shoulder is just slightly weaker than my right, and it feels weird from time to time. Other than that, I hardly notice. -Eddie
a chain holds up twice as long with squirt........go figure
Thanks for sharing. -Eddie
WT-1 from Wolf Tooth is way better!
Thanks for sharing! -Eddie
Love You ! now I can keep my lub serenely ! Wax is good to look good !
Thanks! -Eddie
Wheres the control group? Weak test!
This was a specific test of Squirt to address some concerns from others based upon the "Ultimate Bicycle Chain Lubricant" video. Thanks for your feedback - Eddie
Why does it sound so wrong
Metal on metal... -Eddie
I have created an abomination... muc-off had the best wear and squirt stayed on the chain... so i did the logical thing 50/50 mix of squirt and muc-off. Then cleaned my chain and applied it, wish me luck
Haha - Love it! -Eddie