I failed to mention this but: All 30 Counties survived into BR ownership. Also that "All GWR locos were built at Swindon" statement is simply false. Not even mentioning their secondary works at Wolverhampton, a significant number of locos were built by outside contractors, including North British and Robert Stephenson & Co. I know, shame on me. EDIT: the manual subtitles didn't load in properly, I'm going to try and fix that.
The way I've heard it about the Counties, they couldn't give continuous full output because of the draghting problem decribed. But on cross country routes they excelled as the down hill stretches allowed the boilers to recover for the next climb. Case in point mentioned, Wolverhampton - Shrewsbury. Great presentation style, I've just found your channel and subbed 👍👍👍
It wasn't as similar to the 8F boiler as people think (It's actually quite different) They were never designed to replace the Castles, Freddy Hawksworth had intended them as a Super Hall. It's also not true to say all GW locos were built at Swindon, aside from the number of subcontractors they used, they also had a loco Works at Wolverhampton, 4519 being the last machine built there.
would have been difficult to replace the castles considering they were in triple digits would be interesting to see if Hawksworth had anything else planned for them.
One of the reasons I've heard for their lack of development was the quality of coal, GWR coal came from Wales and was the highest quality in the country, this meant they didn't need to have larger fireboxes and therefore no need for a trailing wheel, unlike everyone else. However this meant that the engines would fall behind naturally with the complacency especially when other engines came onto their tracks using high quality Welsh coal. It's quite interesting how even after BR formed Welsh lines (except cardiff of course) would stick to GWR trains and the biggest standards were still 4-6-0 and were even the lighter class 4's, as the heavier class 5 just wasn't needed due to the difference in coal.
The 1000 Counties and Granges not surviving is down to where they ended up for scrapping. Not being at the Barry Scrapyard was a death sentence. The GWR 4073s, Castles, without Barry... 3 survivors. The GWR 4900s, Halls, without Barry... they'd be extinct. And the Saint rebuild with it. The GWR 6000s, Kings, without Barry... 1 survivor. The GWR 6959s, modified Halls, without Barry... 1 survivor The GWR 7800s, Manors, without Barry... 1 survivor Not being at Barry could often end up as a death sentence for a class. 20 classes owe their survival to Barry Scrapyard (This counts the Rebuilt SR West Countries). Only 2 classes that were sent there had their class go extinct, the yard's sole GWR 3150 and a trio of GWR 5400s. Seriously, some of your favorite locos could be among these 20 classes.
One of the advantages of GWR locomotives in the preservation era is a) Barry Scrapyard and b) Standard Parts - you can recreate many lost locomotives by leveraging "spares" from more common donors (that you don't mind losing 1 or 2 examples).
You could do worse than discuss the LT&SR 4-4-2 tank locos. The No.1 class, the 37, 51 and 79 which were to all intents and purposes continuing under the LMS. They were express tanks, 6'6" wheels and held their own until the arrival of the Stanier 3 cylinder tanks. Thundersley is preserved at Bressingham.
It's ironic in several ways, that the LMS would eventually out perform the GWR with Stanier's 3 cylinder locos, as Stanier was Swindon trained. When He went to the LMS, he actually asked Swindon for a set of drawings that he could use as the basis of one of his designs for the LMS, and the GWR duly obliged. Another irony is that before Stanier went to the LMS, the LMS approached the GWR with a proposal to buy a batch of Castles, as they were so good. I can't understand why the GWR refused to sell them any, as the sale would have been welcomed revenue for the company, and paid a nice dividend to its share-holders. The final Irony is that 80 of Stanier's 8F 2-8-0s would be built at Swindon during the war years and were considered by many to be Swindon's finest builds.
Frommwhat I've read the GWR declined the request for the blueprints as well as the request to build some of the Castles for the LMS, the reason for this has always been given as it was against the law for them to build locos for other railway companies (but I've never seen anything to confirm this). This was all done before Stanier went work for the LMS.
I have to admit I'm slightly ignorant when it comes to Irish locomotives. Sure I know the Vs, the 800s and that one turf-burning loco Bulleid designed, but only surface level. I'll see if I can find some literature on the subject!
The Great Western Railway not my favorite Railway but I have to admit you can easily tell if an engine Great Western without the paint Scheme or the lettering
@@FlyingScott Dutch and flemish is just like how the British English and american english differ from each other, with both varients having multiple dialects. (In the west of flanders- flanders fields, around Ypres and such- sounds a lot different compared to the the earias of Ghent, Brussels and Antwerp who differ amongst them selfs as well. But then you have the Dutch Limburg and Friesland dialects who differ again and is almost another langauge -Friesland that is- compared to the West flemmish dialect.) On that dialect btw, they persistently use subtitles on national tv when the W.F. dialect is used, but any other dialect is not, unless its in a comedy and verry overdone...
I failed to mention this but: All 30 Counties survived into BR ownership. Also that "All GWR locos were built at Swindon" statement is simply false. Not even mentioning their secondary works at Wolverhampton, a significant number of locos were built by outside contractors, including North British and Robert Stephenson & Co.
I know, shame on me.
EDIT: the manual subtitles didn't load in properly, I'm going to try and fix that.
The way I've heard it about the Counties, they couldn't give continuous full output because of the draghting problem decribed. But on cross country routes they excelled as the down hill stretches allowed the boilers to recover for the next climb. Case in point mentioned, Wolverhampton - Shrewsbury. Great presentation style, I've just found your channel and subbed 👍👍👍
So glad I found this little gem of a channel! Very interesting information about an often overlooked loco. This channel has impressed me greatly.
It wasn't as similar to the 8F boiler as people think (It's actually quite different) They were never designed to replace the Castles, Freddy Hawksworth had intended them as a Super Hall. It's also not true to say all GW locos were built at Swindon, aside from the number of subcontractors they used, they also had a loco Works at Wolverhampton, 4519 being the last machine built there.
Dangit, I just knew I forgot about something to do with the subcontractors. Thanks for correcting me!
would have been difficult to replace the castles considering they were in triple digits
would be interesting to see if Hawksworth had anything else planned for them.
One of the reasons I've heard for their lack of development was the quality of coal, GWR coal came from Wales and was the highest quality in the country, this meant they didn't need to have larger fireboxes and therefore no need for a trailing wheel, unlike everyone else. However this meant that the engines would fall behind naturally with the complacency especially when other engines came onto their tracks using high quality Welsh coal. It's quite interesting how even after BR formed Welsh lines (except cardiff of course) would stick to GWR trains and the biggest standards were still 4-6-0 and were even the lighter class 4's, as the heavier class 5 just wasn't needed due to the difference in coal.
The 1000 Counties and Granges not surviving is down to where they ended up for scrapping.
Not being at the Barry Scrapyard was a death sentence.
The GWR 4073s, Castles, without Barry... 3 survivors.
The GWR 4900s, Halls, without Barry... they'd be extinct. And the Saint rebuild with it.
The GWR 6000s, Kings, without Barry... 1 survivor.
The GWR 6959s, modified Halls, without Barry... 1 survivor
The GWR 7800s, Manors, without Barry... 1 survivor
Not being at Barry could often end up as a death sentence for a class. 20 classes owe their survival to Barry Scrapyard (This counts the Rebuilt SR West Countries). Only 2 classes that were sent there had their class go extinct, the yard's sole GWR 3150 and a trio of GWR 5400s. Seriously, some of your favorite locos could be among these 20 classes.
One of the advantages of GWR locomotives in the preservation era is a) Barry Scrapyard and b) Standard Parts - you can recreate many lost locomotives by leveraging "spares" from more common donors (that you don't mind losing 1 or 2 examples).
Keep up the good work
Hello Flying Scott,just discovered yor chanell today AND i like it !!! keep up the good work, i look forward to more!
These reminds me of those VHS tapes I got on railways of the world.
Yo loved how in the beginning you added Montagues's famous line
You could do worse than discuss the LT&SR 4-4-2 tank locos.
The No.1 class, the 37, 51 and 79 which were to all intents and purposes continuing under the LMS.
They were express tanks, 6'6" wheels and held their own until the arrival of the Stanier 3 cylinder tanks.
Thundersley is preserved at Bressingham.
Great video.
Might I suggest the dear old GER Claud Hamiltons for one of your hugely enjoyable chats?
It's ironic in several ways, that the LMS would eventually out perform the GWR with Stanier's 3 cylinder locos, as Stanier was Swindon trained.
When He went to the LMS, he actually asked Swindon for a set of drawings that he could use as the basis of one of his designs for the LMS, and the GWR duly obliged.
Another irony is that before Stanier went to the LMS, the LMS approached the GWR with a proposal to buy a batch of Castles, as they were so good.
I can't understand why the GWR refused to sell them any, as the sale would have been welcomed revenue for the company, and paid a nice dividend to its share-holders.
The final Irony is that 80 of Stanier's 8F 2-8-0s would be built at Swindon during the war years and were considered by many to be Swindon's finest builds.
I'll do you one better: Lizzies had to stand in for the Kings at Old Oak Common in 1956, when the Kings needed to have their front bogies replaced.
Frommwhat I've read the GWR declined the request for the blueprints as well as the request to build some of the Castles for the LMS, the reason for this has always been given as it was against the law for them to build locos for other railway companies (but I've never seen anything to confirm this). This was all done before Stanier went work for the LMS.
They would take The Cornishman as the Kings couldn't enter Cornwall except by road as they were too heavy for the Royal Albert Bridge.
Is it just me or does it look a bit like a Black Five?
Interesting video, keep it up! Must ask, where is your accent from?
It is a poor excuse for a mellowed-out east coast Scottish accent.
@@FlyingScott Sounds a bit Aberdeen. I'm originally an Edinburgher.
So this might be a load of rubbish but there was a theory saying that the county was a test bed for a later design of locomotive a super pacific
It is a half-truth. Hawksworth dismissed the idea of a new GWR Pacific, as a "draughtsman's dream".
My favourite great western locomotive is the modified hall class #thiccbufferbeam
Are there any locos from your Irish neighbors that catch your eye?
I have to admit I'm slightly ignorant when it comes to Irish locomotives. Sure I know the Vs, the 800s and that one turf-burning loco Bulleid designed, but only surface level. I'll see if I can find some literature on the subject!
@@FlyingScott Alright.
The Great Western Railway not my favorite Railway but I have to admit you can easily tell if an engine Great Western without the paint Scheme or the lettering
How you pronounced Walschaerts the 2nd time sounds much more Belgian than how it's normally pronounced
Only the best Belgianised Dutch on this channel.
@@FlyingScott that's exactly what i was talking about :) the Belgian Dutch is just the normal Dutch i speak but with an accent
@@FlyingScott Dutch and flemish is just like how the British English and american english differ from each other, with both varients having multiple dialects. (In the west of flanders- flanders fields, around Ypres and such- sounds a lot different compared to the the earias of Ghent, Brussels and Antwerp who differ amongst them selfs as well. But then you have the Dutch Limburg and Friesland dialects who differ again and is almost another langauge -Friesland that is- compared to the West flemmish dialect.) On that dialect btw, they persistently use subtitles on national tv when the W.F. dialect is used, but any other dialect is not, unless its in a comedy and verry overdone...
The rest of us say GWR means Gresley Was Right.
Not heard that one before, but clever.
Are you scottish or Irish?
Great work keep it going
Not to be rude but the channel name kinda gives it away…
He's Dutch I believe, well he lives in the Netherlands and I have to say I don't hear a hint of Irish in his accent it's more Scottish and Welsh.
1000 was the County of Middlesex. Pity it wasnt preserved.
What's a bigger shame was the stillborn Cathedrals.
According to "Decades Of Steam: 1940s", Hawksworth dismissed the idea of a pacific on the GWR as "a draftsman's dream".
counti
Prefer the wrong way
County Class: obsolete the day they were built. Inside valve gear🫣😟😏🤨