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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ม.ค. 2025
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Teamfight Tactics, TFT, Clips, K3Soju, Kiyoon, Scarra, Becca, Hafu, BoxBox, Keane, Disguised Toast, Kurumx, Bebe, Mortdog, Set 7, Mortdog
I would almost prefer just skipping the opening carousel entirely and getting 3 random item components from stage 1, especially with how the set is right now it's really annoying seeing the entire lobby crowd around the bow lol
wait why are people crowding around bow? in my lobbies it feels like tear is what is wanted for like Zoe, taliah ect
Bow builds into Jax, recon, duelist, and Samira
@@oxxeyss bow=giant slayer= almost every comp
Tear=blue buff or shojin= around 2-3 comps
@@resist35 tear also HOJ
@@bhoppyy6458 no it's ap heavy meta, hoj gives ad ap which is half useless
man i love thoses clips they're so informative every time , the kind of dev communication we love to see
Why not just remove items from 1st carusel, and just give an item anvil to all players instead?
Actually a really good idea, though I imagine some people would still find issue with it.
It’s kind of boring just immediately starting the game like that IMO
why not have an opening carrousel filled with anvils
@@josephsun You'd still have the same fights, this time over specific unit traits
@@narutofanar A good/bad starting trait is a lot easier to work around than an item. You can just sell the champ and buy something else for 0 loss. Having 1 extra T1 unit of a specific trait is rarely ever going to break/make a comp, having a bis item on your carry will.
Maybe a random champ orb and an anvil will do for the first turn. The first champ doesn't really matter most of the time tbh, probably get sold the next round to get the item.
set 6.5 ziggs flashback...
I honestly just stopped taking items from the first carousel, keeps me from starting the game tilted and gives me more time to afk since all the units can solo round 1.
One replacement for starting carousel could be:
You load into the game, no carousel, prep time for first pve, you have a normal shop of 5 1-costs and exactly 1 gold to spend.
The first pve round will then guaranteed drop 1 item anvil for you as replacement for the first carousel item. Yes, it will make forcing items a bit easier but at the same time, remove this bad feeling of not getting the item on first carousel just to quickly run around and find a replacement that isnt cloak
I would make it so the shop couldn't be locked either. Because there is a chance that the shop contains duplicates, which can make one person strong enough that they don't need to buy units through all the pve rounds. Or just force non-duplicates, but that seems a bit harder
It shouldn't be a shop, since that'll make it possible to not get a champion in for your first round (lag/DC etc)
It should be a anvil/augment window that automatically picks one if the timer runs out.
Opening carousel is actually mostly ping related. I noticed this when I moved continents, but stayed on NA servers.
Sometimes slow ping is better. I was playing on NA servers in Thailand with ~275 ping. Some seconds before the carousal would open, I'd force my character model right onto the border and let it lag there. That would win the item fight every time.
@@chinesebaloni hospital wifi was doing this for me as well whereas my 600mbs internet i probably dont get 3/10 items i try to get. i hit 6 games in a row in the hospital last night where i got first item and it was bow/tear every game lol
could opening carousel just be replaced by entering your board immediately and then have 3 choices like augments but its 3 different 1 cost unit attached with a random component? i feel like that would be an "easy" (idk shit about programming) fix
Since they already programmed all of that, would be just deleting a part, making some tweaks and would be fine tbh, "easy" as you say, but not completely
@@dogeatturtle You would think, but seeing as LoL is held together by duct tape and a dream I wouldn't be so sure
It's not about how hard or easy it is to program, it's about whether that would be good from gameplay perspective. And whether your suggestion is good for the game is up for debate.
not just clicking but also luck to have a decent item closer to you than other players is also not great
honestly feel if they replace the starting carousel with something like the anvil or giving each player a choice of 3 units then 3 items like how the admin trait works at the start of the game
wait something aint right here
at 0:20 he returns to board with a needlessly on camile and a BF sword in the pool with 20 gold
he then makes a gunblade on camille sells camile now 22 gold puts gunblade on ezreal who already had rapid fire
at 0:23 he now has 12 gold an extra blitz (so its assumed that he rolled down) and bought BUT his gunblade is now a single BF sword and ez only has the rapid fire
now going back this clip is actually heavily editted and not jump cutting because of extra content in the middle but instead
the clips go 2-4 to planning 2-5 then back to 2-3 before carousel so the video makes sense to be played from about 23 seconds in and then loop the video
I mean yea I just edited the questions in a way that made more narrative sense, that's all lmao
@@TFTClips I get that but that just threw me for a loop at first because I thought i was tripping
Its basically a problem with both APM and players ping. If one player has 20ms and another has 150ms, you already know who is more likely to win the carousel . APM only matters if your ping isnt garbage.
Finding a replacement is also pretty difficult since all ideas ive seen so far either completely remove the rng or depends on it even more. For example: Letting everyone choose between a couple of items is bad since then everyone is gonna force certain items early. But giving everyone a random item is also bad since now you can get a garbage item, more than half the lobby has good items and now you go 8th and its not even your fault. (Maybe a little exaggerated, but certain items are definitely way better on stage 1)
I like how hyper roll works, where you just get a choice of item basically instead of going back to carousel, but seeing other players is important in lobby.
The idea would be to have starting lobby where you see people, interact, but has no effect like current carousel, maybe it is just a "pick your portal" and the first to get to it gets lock in that portal and given a random item and champion? Or pick your starting item and you can all end picking tear if you want?
This is why I love hyperroll. Just simpler not having to deal with carrousel rounds.
I'm not a game designer but 2 solutions could be
1. Have an opening augment that gives you a champion and item, similar to carousel, gives each player 3 choices, and they can spend their reroll if they really want,
Or
2. Have a shop round in 1.1 with starting gold as 1 and all 1 cost that come with an item/get an extra item from 1.1.
Solved
Why not give everyone a choice on a random pool of tier 1s and components? like basically as soon as you start it opens a shop like the one with the anvils but it gives you a unit and item (tied or not together)
hey, Just a reminder that the sivir augment " delivery tips" is still bugged and do not work, at least in hyper roll ( sry for bad english )
This title ICANT
Honestly down the line removing carousel completely and replacing it with something else would improve the flow of the game, assuming that the something else is better
The carousel was a dumb design to begin with. It wastes so much time and it hard punishes u for win streaking. You just sit there and watch people take what u want. Its extremely dumb especially when someone gets a random 4-5 cost champ with a good component by pure RNG. The fact that this feature stayed for 7 sets blows my mind.
make the opening a roulette that you have 2 skips. So if you get and item you don't like, you click to spin again and the item can't be the same as the last one.
Give a prompt of choosing between 3 items attachted to 3 random champions. Potentially even make it after a few minion rounds.
I swear barely half the player base knows its an APM thing. The amount of people leading cursors is astonishing
And it would also play into "pog flexible set"
someone lmk what they think of this idea, 9 shrines with a champion and item on them, you stand in front of a shrine to choose it, any number of players can choose the same shrine, this would create mind games where for example if you see 8 people playing bow, you could choose the tear and be far more likely to play an uncontested comp, you could also potentially make it so there can be 2 cost shrines as well, resulting in more variety, like a game where there is 7 1 cost shrines but there are 2, 2 cost shrines which have a cloak and a glove, resulting in everybody choosing 1 of those where as if it was only 1 costs people would normally not choose either of those, i think this system would reward critical thinking rather than rewarding people who click fast and fucking those who cant click fast
"while also balancing the game" KEK
Ah yes the whole lobby going for the galio with a belt.
I feel like you could replace it with a much weaker treasure dragon. Offers 3 components and you can reroll for like 10 gold. The reroll amount could be determined by your placing. To discourage rerolling a ton for perfect items. And you just pick one of the 3.
Problem discussed here isn't all carousels, just the opening one because there is no strategy involved whatsoever to obtain the unit/item you want. Other carousels are designed for lower hp players to have priority
I saw another comment in here that essentially said all starting units should have item anvil and I agree with this 100%
Same feel with Zephyr, raptor's and all general moving your entire team in 0.5 seconds before the fight starts. Maybe you should just not be able to check enemy screens in the 5-10 seconds before combat starts, so you have time to move and outthink.
Not wrong. Apm is always important tho because of rolling so its arguable
just start the game with like a hub that says welcome to tft and when everyone goes to their arena they choose 1 of 5 level 1 champs and a random item
It's kind of iconic at this point.
It’s funny how back then he mention that first item carousels doesn’t matter but now he’s bitting his own ass saying it should be remove and it’s an apm check. He even double down on that with stats which was garbage lol
what about having the same circling champs but instead of only one person getting the champ/item everyone can get the same one if they touch it. Like hoping into the same wagon
I agree, remove carousels and give an armory anvil so you have choises between 2-3 components so you cant get fucked over by carousel RNG. only pro i see for carousel is it gives the ones with lowest hp a kind of comeback mechanic getting to choose first.
But there are a lot more apm things in tft. They even added the fast thinking augment in set 7
Do you think two andvil with a 3 choices item and a 3 choice champion is a good idea ?all random of course
Not only it is an APM check but some little legends are actually bigger or smaller which changes their hitbox. Making the first carousel kinda p2w but not really.
Actually not, since a bigger hitbox (if that is actually true, since it's independent of the model), would influence the collision with both the border ring and the units, so it would make no difference
What is an apm check?
@@KNDlifeacademy your click speed
Might sound stupid, I'm not a game designer for a reason, but what about just giving the players an anvil and exactly one starting gold, with just your basic lvl 1 shop
It sounds kinda more fun, and you can also start planning way earlier that way
5 months ago this channel made a post with mort saying opening carousel wasn’t a problem.
Tbh, it's weird he said an APM check has no place in a strategy game, but a lot of the things in the game are already APM checks, such as Think Fast, whole board transitions, late game positioning etc. Not to mention that many early strategy games like StarCraft are all about APM as well.
What apm check means?
think fast and board transitions are not really apm check.... they are brain checks.... u can click milion times per second, but if u dont know what to click, u are fucked
why not just remove items from opening carousel and just give the component armory thing?
How about the Champions in the carousel have a Loot Orb that they hold in each rounds so you can only chase a champion not an specific item. I mean yeah it´s random but it is random at this point anyways.
Sucks playing on NA with 450 ping for Carosels some times I lag into the wrong unit
They could just pull a hyper roll here and just give people options to chose from
The title really should have ''oppening'' in it tho
It shouldnt your comment is flawed
@@georgestratidis6983 mortdog was talking about opening carousel, not carousel in it's entirety. so the title should be "Why Mortdog Hates The Opening Carousel and Wants to Delete It from TFT" to be accurate.
@@georgestratidis6983 your mom is flawed
@@c.j.8263 not really tho. He was talking about the carousel mechanic as a whole.
@@georgestratidis6983 He's talking about opening carousel though
Maybe remove the item from the openning carousel item and just make it 1 cost units and increase stage 1 loot by avg of 1 component whether in gold value, unit value or just the random loot orb component
Make it Majong-like opening where all the 1-costs and items are represented as champs and items orbs, randomly of course, and presented the orbs pile to everyone. Then each person chose 1 item orb and 1 champ orb from the pile. The order of choosing is random like how League handles Soloq pick priority
This is actually genius
Maybe make a "Carousel Anvil" where it gives you 5 champions and a component/item attached to it (make the champ and item with the same algorithm as creating a random champ for the current carousel)
And to keep the "order" thing, instead the lower you are on the leaderboard, the more "rerolls" you get (i.e. top person gets only 1 or even 0 rerolls and then each duo of people down gets +1 roll from the previous)
IDK if using a pool for items/champs is a good idea or not, since then it might just feel like carousel but without the animations lol
ALSO, maybe make it so the item doesn't come on the champ anymore if you do it that way?
didn't mort also say that first carousel items don't really matter? lol I don't see why it's even worth changing
My 2 cents on this:
Give player 1 startgold, no item and a regular 1-cost shop to start with.
Messes with people who tend to afk the first round (cause they'd lose the PvE round due to not having bought any units), but in return we don't have the random APM check from carousel + we can actually keep our first unit if it ends up fitting into the early comp, instead of having to sell and re-buy to get the item off of it.
start with 1 gold and 5 1* options in shop + item anvil
Maybe just give an individual pick to each player choose an item+champ on their own board and remove opening carousel
Start game with an item anvil (already opened) and 1 gold?
Thanks god I hate the opening carousel. As someone who plays in 300 pings, I hate the opening carousel so much, especially in unbalanced item meta. It is a latency check.
The worst part about opening carousel is when you're closer to the item, but your legend decides that it wants to path around the legend behind you, so they get it
You can actually do this on purpose by predicting where the item will be when it opens, and standing still on the edge. Anyone moving will path around you. Skill issue
Use Molediver and spam click at the very back point of the unit ur going for
My friend literally has a macro for moving. He rightclicks 100 times a second by holding one button and always wins carousel
Maybe start game with everyone having item anvil, so everyone gets a choice between 3 components
Make all players start at the bottom of the carousel map and make boxes at the top with a damage, a tank and a utility symbol. The players can now run into a of the 3 boxes and get 1 of those components 100%, 2nd and 3rd item is a lower % chance. Gives the player the option to start with a favourable start and wouldnt remove the item rng early entirely ^^
I really hope they do something about that
just make a screen we can pick an item in order of our placement. the carousel is a joke
Literally lost a game because the tear I needed was on the other side and the other guy stole it from me even though I was lower on the leaderboard. Why it isn’t a character and item draft that goes one at a time is insane to me.
Just get a selection of 3 heroes and then 3 items like the augments at the start of the game. And then you go from there. UI already there, not much too change. And stops this carousel clickfiesta
wait so is it confirmed that u win, as long as you click fast enough?
I hate opening carousel simply because it means I star every game at a disadvantage since I play with 150ish ping
I really hated the carousel when i first started playing. That's I why I just played auto chess at the beginning sets of tft just because of it.
I agree with this, eventhough i do have to say that it isnt hurting me to badly
It should be way higher up on the list. Shit is so stupid even though I usually get the unit I want lol
Yeah its a good concept cause all players gather together and you can spam emotes on their face but the mechanic sucks
its a good concept because players can spam emotes? lol. wtf? are you 9?
I like carousel, but I wouldnt dislike something better replacing it.
give player a box with a component and 1 extra gold at the start of each game
Just replace it with an item anvil ala a psuedo-mulligan phase.
I like the Hyper Roll version of carrousel
Mort used to mention social aspect
you know what shouldn't be in a strategy game? 2-1 hero augments
well, I see a lot similar ideas in the comments about removing the item from the first carousel, so I came up with a new fun idea.
An auction.
An item (with a 1 cost unit) pops up on your screen, and you'll have 10 seconds to bid on it. You'll have 3 options: you want it, you dont care, you dislike it. This goes on 7 times. The 8th person (who didn't win any auctions) will get a random item assigned.
1) If you you like it, you'll have to put in a number which represents the amount of gold that will be taken from you after the carousel (classic carousel after round 2-3 or 2-4) round. So if you bid 8 gold for a bow as starting item, 8 gold will be taken from you after that item picking round. Every player can only bid once per item, 10 seconds to put in a number, highestbid wins. (use an arrow up/down system to adjust how much gold you want to bid, this works both on pc and mobile easily)
2) you dont care: if no one wanted to pay for the item, you might get this assigned randomly. You don't lose any gold after the carousel round.
3) dislike it: If you said you disliked the starting item, but got it anyway, you'll be rewarded with +5 gold directly after the auction round. This will give you an early boost to your eco which might compensate for your unfortunate start.
Extra rule: if someone says 'i dont care' and someone else said 'dislike', the first person will get the item. This prevents people from spamming 'dislike' for cheesy early game eco strats.
Extra rule: if you would end up with negative gold after the deduction, gold gained in the next round(s) will be withheld until you have settled your 'debt'.
Basically it's a system that builds on the basic idea of TFT: power vs eco. Rolling down for power now or take the loss and go hard later in game?
70 seconds before the first PvE round!!!!
@@beanshapeAli ey the game takes roughly 30-40 minutes anyway. 1 minute won't hurt anyone
@@joeysmit4644 lmao this will never, ever be implemented. People want to play the game when they get into the game. Not have to play some long ass minigame before the pve rounds.
Yeah it's kinda weird that you getting punished for doing well in the game. What's up with that mechanic?
Just give people 1 random unit at start and add +1 component from drops, easy fix
I just press CTRL+2 and let my Chibi Ashe sit on her Throne, to watch the "peasants" fight.
tf do you mean it doesnt make sense for carousel to be an apm check when the whole fucking game is apm check
Riot have the most out of order backwards priority list out of any company LMAO
How about a very simple pick your first component.. or have 3 to pick from, seems like a very simple fix and very little effort. But that's Riot devs for you
Is there anything this guy does not hate?
hey, i got an idea to replace the opening carousel. feel free to hmu.
two actually
*treasure drake enters chat*
first carrusel should give orbs
I just AFK during the carousel, lol
u could easly make it that u have to pick one champ and then RNG the winner
So apm checks suck? Does that mean scouting is no good?
Just permaban the people that go in your spot After taking the item and the game Will be saved forever
Why not just switch the opening carousel for an anvil? Gives you some choice but is still random.
It should be you place a vote for which item you want. You see how many votes are for it and that effects your chance to get it. Can switch vote anytime for item with lower percent chance. Just removing clicks challenge
Replace with armory ..... 8th place chooses 1 of 8 items 5th place 1 of 5 items. 1st place one of 1 item
You know what shouldn't be in this game, re roll 2 costs that is by far the best comp in game. So fking sick of this set
just let everone choose 1 item individually and then let them have a bot unit fight the first camp . that bot will than disapear and u have to buy a unit to continue. = more strategy game
I think that rolling and positioning quickly are APM checks that are far more important than carousels and significantly more difficult to do well. It doesnt make sense to criticize starting carousel in this way since rolling and team management are innately APM/ping related and are fundamental to the game.
I also dont think starting carousel is very important unless you dont know many comps.
Either way I dont think it matters if you are delivered a random champion and item or have to compete for one in a carousel at game start. It seems insignificant.
Just give us an anvil from 1st minions
Removing carousel is the dumbest idea ever, its the one feature that made tft unique from dota autochess and not a stright up reskinned copycat
unique doesmt mean good
It seems easy enough to fix later carousels: have all little legends start from one end of the board, and put all the carousel champs/items in a static line opposite them. No more user error and less “damn they were closer”.
For the opener the only thing I like is having *some* agency in what I might get. Maybe just give everyone their own 3 choices?