Those speakers are very high efficiency and they are matched to the tube amplifier. Don't be fooled by the physical size of the magnets. I believe replacing them with modern junk may be a mistake. I did enjoy your video. Thanks!
The issue isn't the speakers but the "cabinet" they are in, just a huge unlined wood crate. Put them in a proper enclosure and I'll bet they'd be fine.
That's right. Those speakers are all paper coned with Alnico magnets, light weight materials and the cones are fast responding to signal making them perfect for low wattage tube gear. If you use heavy constructed acoustic suspension speakers or closed-box speakers designs, the volume and over all efficiency will drop. The cabinet acts as speaker enclosures. There is loss but on the other hand are almost like open baffle design. Maybe experimenting with some dampening insulations will improve or hinder the speaker frequency responses. Try it. cheers
I'm happy to go against the grain here. This console stereo is a classic product of its time and should be preserved. When you listen to it, you're hearing the sound of an era somewhere between 1953 and 1963; that's very cool and special. The "CD" marks on the AM dial indicate that this unit was made between 1953 and 1963 to conform with civil defense broadcasting requirements during the Cold War with the Soviet Union. Based on its looks, I'd say that it was made in the late '50's or early '60's. It is a department store stereo made for Gimbels. If I had it, I'd restore it and keep it as original as possible. It's an important piece of American electronics and department store history. 💪👊
I inherited a gorgeous Allen Organ console from 1963, it has original factory wired Dynaco stereo fm tuner and pas2 preamp. I replaced the junk ss mono amps with a matching dynaco st70 tube amp, and replaced the junk Gerrard TT with a restored dual 1229. I also replaced the crossovers and mids and tweeters (kept the jensen 12" woofers). The thing sounds stunning. You picked yours up by just yourself. It takes 3 grown people to move the Allen. It's about a tree's worth of solid walnut, gorgeous piece of furniture. This was the golden era of hifi, where these things were an investment in a household and family, like a car, and as expensive. I will cherish my time listening to this treasure with my family.
Junk? I beg to differ. Those Alnico magnets on the drivers did a good job of moving the sound and was satisfying, filling the needs to those who purchased these consoles who weren't audiophiles and on a budget.
I think he means junk compared to some of the better offerings at the time from brands like Fisher, Magnavox, RCA etc. This looks like a department store house brand. The amplifier alone is probably worth the $50 even if the rest has little value.
@@justincramer9681 This is why it's not really fair to compare speakers based on magnet size. From what I've heard, manufacturers were forced to switch from using superior Alnico magnets to weaker (and cheaper) ceramic magnets simply because cobalt prices skyrocketed and made alnico economically unfeasible to make. Because ceramic magnets are weaker, more magnetic material is needed to produce the same effect as an alnico magnet. Therefore ceramic speaker magnets are naturally bigger, but not necessarily better, and sometimes even worse than smaller alnico magnets. This switch to ceramic wasn't because of any sort of technological progress or improvement and was simply about cost savings, but it led to bulky ceramic magnets being the standard since the 70s.
Not quite junk, it was 11-17 watts 250 to 300 volts B+ with push pull 6BQ5 outputs. The cheap junk ones were single ended and produced only about 5 distorted watts, The output transformers could be better. It must play loud without too much distortion with those efficient speakers. Of course the name brands mentioned above were better. Some of the entry level highend amplifiers also used 6BQ5 outputs. Really cheap consumer brands used something like 25L6 single ended that produced only about 2 watts per channel. Hot chassis no isolating power transformer with only 130 volt B+.
The tuner has what was called Bantam Stereo, of which you listen to one channel of the sound on AM and the other channel on FM. That is how the stations broadcasted stereo in the late 50s and early 60s. The arm on the phono went to the 7 inch position because you bypassed the lever that is sticking up by the pivot of the tone arm. The 10 inch setting is a little button at the edge of the platter. Upgrading the speakers should make a world of difference to the sound. Good video and a great find.
@@MrElectrowhiz l remember early stereo radio in the UK ,two mono radio's ,left and right channels on a different setting into a stereo or two mono amps !
As Mr. Electrowhiz noted, when this unit was produced the only over the air method of sterero was AM & FM simulcasts. This unit was designed for such a situation. FM Multiplex had not yet been approved by the FCC. Ditto about the Alnico speaker magnets - they were the only type permanent magnets available for speakers of that era. Even the finest stereo and Hi-Fi equipment of the era had this type magnet. Magnet sizes varied depending on speaker efficiency and overall design. This unit likely has about a 10-15W per channel output capability.
$50 is good for the push-pull 6BQ5 power amplifier chassis. 11-17 watts per channel depending on plate voltage. The output transformers are probably not the best but it will still have that warm tube sound. You must change the paper capacitors around the 6BQ5s, some of them look swollen and are probably leaky. Running the amp like this can damage the tubes and output transformers. Inspect and test the other capacitors and replace as needed. Also check the electrolytics. Some of the resistors might have changed in value, check and replace.
Gimbels was a department store, so this was likely an inexpensive store product. Still sounds good though. We have a Motorola console from 1963 with three separate amps, dedicated subwoofer channel, and 33 tubes. It is simply amazing. There are some really awesome cosole stereos out there hopefully you get to see or come across one sometime but I. The meantime even this low end one was fun to see. Love your channel
Motorola and Msgnavox made some unusual and fairly sophisticated consoles back in the 60's, such as your 3 channel unit. Some used good quality (for that era) Jensen speakers, but sound quality was often limited by the heavy grille cloth and wood latticework over the speakers, the speaker output resonating throughout the entire cabinet, and the terrible record changer. With sealed-cabinet speakers and a better turntable, sound quality is much improved.
I’d put the two large filter caps up in the holes and then cover them with the empty cap cans to keep original appearance and keep underside clean. While a budget piece,,he it’s a survivor and worth keeping it alive and well glad you rescued it😅
OMG, Gimbel's! When I see that, I think of the original film of "Miracle at 34th Street." Probably a house brand for that late, lamented department store chain. (sigh...) I had a 4-speed turntable like this one. It had reversible styli: one for 78-RPM records and the other stylus for all other records. The 16-RPM speed was used for playing records for the blind. Our family had a blind friend who lent me some of his books on records. I had to learn to recognise the raised dots in order to tell which side was Side A and Side B. I really enjoyed it, and I still love to listen to books in spite of the fact I have full sight. What a radio! I miss decent radio stations that broadcast in either FM mono or FM stereo. That "multiplex" setting on the radio brought back fond memories. If I had this lovely thing, I'd do the same things YOU want to do. This thing has a TUBE amp, for heaven's sake. Who wouldn't want to use the heck out of that thing? So lovely. I'd find a way to fit an AUX input (if it doesn't have one already) and hook up my Raspberry Pi 4 running a dedicated music app. Or just use one of my old, junky, iPods or mobile phones. The turntable I would leave alone to put out that vintage vibe. If you like the radio, and it works...play it to death, I say. Very nice!
In Laurium, Michigan there is a store named The Yard Sale that encompasses two buildings on opposite sides of the street from one another. The building on the south side is a beautiful old bank and probably half of the first floor is old vinyl. They have a set of The Holy Bible for the blind at 16 rpm.
It's great seeing young people fix the old audio equipment! That gives you a change to learn how to works it and how to fix it. Very satisfying when that stuff works again.
Despite your judgment on the price-sensitive build quality of this unit, I'd rather see it returned as close to the original state as possible rather than see a modification of the tuner unit. It's not up to the level of Fisher or HH Scott equipment, but it captures a moment in time. I saw your explanation about the warm feelings that the wooly sound quality evoked, and I know exactly what you mean. My friend's parents had one of these consoles and I remember the kind of rolled off bass-heavy sound, and how it made the radio announcers' voices boom. Whatever you decide to do, glad you are showing us how it goes! Keep up the good work.
Back in the day most people bought a console stereo based on the cabinet. Lucky my Uncle was a TV repairman and suggested that my parents buy a Fisher brand console and that worked for many years and sounded pretty good.
Its great to see these old cabinet stereos getting some love. I was given an early '60's Monarch console in about 1990, BSR turntable, full range oval speakers (9-10 inch) that had 15watts on them, AM/FM stereo receiver, it sounded surprisingly good for what it was, probably a rocking 10 watts a side but clean and loud enough to piss my roomies off :P Good job man!
It was a fun video to watch. I remember Gimbels Department Stores. We had a similar console when I was very young. Hi-Fi was all the rage. My five siblings and parents would gather around the console and sing along to Mitch Miller "sing-along" albums.
Fun project to bring back to life since it is in nice physical condition. I’ve serviced many of those VM changers back in the day. Disassemble the motor and wash both bushings and the motor shaft with lots of alcohol. Careful not to loose the thrust washers, clean them too. Then re-lubricate with light oil. The motor speed with come right back to normal. Clean rubber drive wheel with alcohol as well. If it’s glazed a little fine emery cloth or equivalent will usually restore it unless the rubber is too dry. Good luck.
That's usually all they need. I just had a 1965 Magnavox restored. The changer was playing about 3 RPM too slow and had occasional mechanical issues. Cleaning and relubing has it working perfectly now.
High compliance speakers with their little magnets work just fine with a low power amp. Those tin nuts were super common and worked as good as a solid nut.
I enjoyed that, would like to see it restored further. Mend It Mark from the UK fixes these old Stereograms up now and again on his channel, well worth a watch
Wow! Flashback! We had a Stereophonic All-In-One (Turntable, AM/FM, 8-Track + Two Speakers) when I was a kid. Very fond memories, but not fond enough given that I worked like an animal to save up enough to buy a Marantz Gold Series set-up when I was about 15.
Correct me if I'm wrong here, but when testing with the Marantz receiver you should really have a dummy load on the speaker outputs on the power amp side of the Gimbels unit so you don't risk running the output transformer without a load and fry it.
The nice effect of high speed capacitor replacement! Yeah an Idler wheel would need some repair and oiling up some of the parts on the turntable and it would play nice! But I don't think your going to that point anytime soon! Oh well!
It says Gimbels on the back of the inside phono/radio compartment. I'm thinking that was an old department store back in the 50's or 60's. Might see if you can cross reference it on Google. And Yeah, I'd love to see that upgraded! Bring it on!
That's the MCM version of the Gimbel's logo. Couldn't help but think of "It's beginning to look a lot like Gimbel's...", especially with it being so close to Christmas. Gimbel's was bought out in the latter 80's and retired the name in '87. Most likely why it didn't ring a bell when it was shown. Also, that clip in the inside back on the left was for the 45 stacking spindle.
I saw the Gimbels name on the inside of the cabinet, In the 40 and 50 they were aligned in New York City across the street from Macy's and a competitor. So Not a high end but not junk either. Could be a fine unit for basement party room. We also add a jack for Aux Like a CD player. Should be a fun unit with that warm Vacuum Tube tone. I rebuild a Grundig smaller but similar setup and it turned out great. Great effort Dennis
Those are a good way of finding a cheaper low power tube amp. Most people don't collect them. They're too big and as you noted the speakers usually suck. So as long as the tubes are good and available. I used a tube amp out of one like that. The cabinet was destroyed but the amp was good.
I'm with Mr Mojo, MORE!!! Great fun watching you bring this tube tank back. Must be a cheapo cuz a good one of these would have broken your table, {back} lol. We had a Montgomery Wards console with 8 track as well. However the morse Electrophonic console was the heaviest, and the most beautiful. I would love to get one of those again, and hop it up. Happy Holidays.
Cool project and indicative of these old consoles. My parents had a nice Magnavox TV console from about 1970 that my brother and I replaced the woofers on after we blew them. That thing sounded pretty good through many house parties with a quarter on the stylus to keep records from skipping. LOL.
Got a 1961 Pilot console , minus record player and amp, but with Original 3 way fully enclosed boxed speakers inside the cabinet. mint, beautiful piece of furniture . Hooked up my 68 fisher receiver and am using a 80s sony turntable. It sounds great . I guess the fully enclosed, speakers in the cabinet give more bass. not ported, but not boomy. Cool thing, its still has the warm .rich tone I remember from my childhood in the 60s. I get that those open speakers wont have much bass - almost all manufacturers just stuck them on the front - ,not enclosed. Pilot was apparently top of the line till the late 60s. I route my TV through it, but it also kicks ass on music..
Aiden, I appreciate your approach to watts, volts, amps and resistors and your honesty when admitting flubs. Keep on keeping on. I'm looking forward to 2025.
There isn't much of a use case of consoles any longer, but it's still nice to have a piece of audio nostalgia. Thanks for another interesting fixit video. I'd like to see it further restored if it's worth it to you. Lots of time involved to fix what would be considered Lo-Fi equipment.
I don't mind watching you fix Low end electronics. I still need to get around to fixing my stuff, and watching you do relatively simple repairs makes me more confident to do my own repairs. The record player might be an idler drive and probably needs to be oiled; gummed up grease will slow it down.
This looks like a console from the early/mid 60's, also the style is probably Dutch modern and probably made by zenith for gimbals department stores as an in-house brand, also the fm section is set up for stereo by selecting the stereo fm multiplex setting
This is my personal favorite stuff even though l could never fix it! I listen to my parents 1962 Magnavox (that's when Dad sad he bought it) like once a week or so. I love it! And it just keeps working! Great videos by the way. I've subscribed from the start and watched your journey. Merry Christmas!
Tuning that turntable - you need the strobe light and aluminium disk set with markings for the 4 speeds, to tune it. The early turntables were easy to tune
AWESOME FIND .. ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ regarding repairs.. Your so lucky this unit is so clean inside Hasnt been robbed for parts and is showing few signs of previous repairs Your not hearing the " rushing noise " so common in modern FM receivers Because in this circuit FM audio recovery is being done by " Slope Detection " As you discovered, Peaking all the coils ( frontend and IF plus detector) will likely make a massive improvement to sensitivity 😊 However to align the fm detector correctly you actually adjust it for zero DC output while tuned to an receive frequency centered unmodulated carrier .. Enjoy 🤓 Ps, in order to maintain a vintage appearance while recapping, it's common practice to reinstate the original caps but leave them unconnected ( isolated), while tagging the ( much smaller ) modern equivalents to the underside 🤫 I have seen modern caps packed within the vintage ( capacitor) enclosure, I personally don't recommend doing this .. 🤒 Pps, the record player is likely running a little slow because the bearings are particularly seized ( Remove the motor and lubricant very carefully, then wipe dry and reinstall)🙂
Maybe, upgrade the turntable. You already fixed the rest. Console cab looks good, but I guess you could try replacing other stuff if it wrecked the looks/ or didn't work out just put the original back in. You have a good working knowledge/ approach to fixing stereo's Your alignment surprised your self. nice work.
Wells-Gardner was a big Chicago electronics manufacturer around the late 50s-early 60s, and they made consoles for many big department stores of the era like Sears and Montgomery Ward. Your lightweight chassis with the tuner and preamp all in one are clues that they may be the manufacturer for your Gimbels console. SAMS has all the Wells Gardner schematics. This unit was not top of the line and certainly built with a cost factor in mind. That said, it’s amazing how far turntable technology has advanced from 60 plus years ago. Most phono changers of the era were mounted on springs.
That's a Voice of music record changer. Clean and lubricate it, replace the stylus if the cartridge still works and it will play all of your records no problem without any harm to them.
Nice work, Aiden! It would be interesting to hear some better speakers to see how it sounds then. It could be very interesting. If you can maybe work on that turntable a little bit to a speed it up might be just a pot somewhere or some oil. It sounded a little noisy. You and a few other TH-camrs have inspired me to get into fixing these old audio pieces. I’m building my dim bulb tester currently. I bought a HarmonKardon 330 C and a Sansui 5500 off of eBay, they will be my first victims.
There's nothing to upgrade on speakers, those are high sensitivity paper cone drivers most probably with alnico magnets. Give/sell it to someone who see the value in that "garbage" and can treasure it.
When powered up. The power amplifier probably produces little more than 1 watt. I love tube amplifiers as they have warm and special in the sound they produce. Thumbs up if you keep it.
you need the MPX adaptor to get FM stereo and at least the amp looks like it has P-P 6BQ5 output tubes and the output transformers would be great for a higher end build
You have a pretty decent valve amp there that is remarkably clean, so I’d give it a new set of speakers to play with (if you have the time re-box it so you can see the valves) and it’s not hard to add a Bluetooth receiver to these things to give them a new life in this higher tech age.
I looked up some specs on those old console type stereo units and Magnavox, Zenith, Motorola and others used speaker drivers with specs about 90db, 1 watt 1 meter which is very good. That is why a lot of these units with modest 5 - 10 watt amps sound so good.
Beautiful sounding hi fi, I wonder if the switching has a auxiliary setting that would allow the connection of a tape recorder or even a compact disc player. Tho in my opinion those transducers are priceless - absolutely do not change them.
I would be interested in you doing what you suggested. There is a market for upgrading these types of consoles & some small companies/idividuals are making a good chunk of change at it. A bluetooth adaptor, simple, good quality belt drive turntable & better speakers would make this a nice piece of mid-century modern for a living room with that style!
You landed a beauty! I purchased a Zenith 1960 console ina very similar style like your console! Mine does ned work and its a work inprogress currently.
I'm happy to see young people like you into older technology. Just curious why you didn't check the tolerance of the resistors. They can change value, changing the bias voltage on tubes. This could affect the sound negatively and put the tubes under unnecessary stress. I'm sure you already know that.
The power PP EL84 amplifier looks like it would be worth exploring some more. The iron on it looks good and heavy so it has the potential to provide quality hifi and a reasonable amount of power (>20W).
i had a friend who took a gutted console and put full size components in there standing on there rears supported on wooden slats. it was just freaking cool.
You are going to need those original high efficiency speakers to match the low wattage output of that amp. You probably have about 10 watts per channel there if your lucky on a good day. You do need to change the capacitors on the tweeter and midrange, as they are probably high in esr or off value by now. Probably why it sounds muffled.
I suspect the vintage is somewhere around 1961. At that time there was a brief period where AM/FM simulcasts were used for stereo, if I'm not mistaken. That's where the weird AM/FM combo switch selection comes into play.
Nice. I hate , adding a "but" ! But, i would have forestalled the alignment untill after the compleat recaping. As that could have been good or closer to correct whith all good caps. However still a good job. So fun . Thanks for the memories. 50 year electronics tech here !
Excellent Mid century modern cabinet design, with the desirable cowboy legs. Current mcm style cabinets like that go for $2k -$3k from good cabinet makers and retro furniture producers
The power section alone is well worth $50. I scored a 1959 Motorola console stereo at a thrift store for $7. The left and right channels share a 12AX7 preamp tube with an EL84 output tube per channel and separate transformers for the two sides. It also has a center 15" speaker which has a 12AX7 into two EL84s and a large output transformer of it's own in the power amp. Not a lot of wattage but great tube fidelity and harmonic reproduction.
Those speakers are high efficiency , designed to work in open back cabinets. Just about any woofer that you find today will be for air suspension systems. P.A. speakers would work, but need a lot more power. Are there any manufactures numbers on any of the parts ? They may look like 528.0000, 137.1234, and would be stamped on the speaker magnet, transformer covers, and the tuner. You might be able to find a schematic from another set that they made.
Gimbels department store brand..Opened in 1847 closed it's doors in 1987...at one time they were the largest department store chains in the country...may be cheap but there is history there...
If you want higher quality capacitors use Cornell Dubilier poly-film capacitors. Their incredibly high tolerance and they work pretty well in audio circuits like what you're working on here. As far as I know you CAN get them from Mouser.
Thanks for fixing that pile of 💩. It was entertaining and informative too. Take-aways for me - the speakers were not enclosed, so you're going to get sound cancellation and cross-talk between the channels. I'd be curious if the tube amp, fed from a quality source and driving quality, high efficiency speakers, would produce quality sound.
The thing is these console speakers almost never show the full potential of the tube amps inside. I have a Fisher tube console and the sound is so so, I would say pleasant but not awesome. The tuner though is amazing. It picks up everything and I live pretty rural. Anyway, I also have a pulled Fisher tube amp that is the same amp that is inside my Fisher console. The pulled amp sounds great with modern speakers. It has connections for two pairs of speakers and another speaker connection for "space filling" speakers that only puts out the high end frequency of the music. It's a great amp but it seems that the designers at Fisher tamed it down a bit for the console. Perhaps via the preamp section?
Also, perceived or actual good quality or not, I don't see what that should determine if its worth fixing or not. If you like it and want it, fix it. If not, sell it on. It's an example of what was available at the time.
You can get much higher values for rectifier capacitors with solid-state rectifiers, with tube rectifiers checking the tube data. I think these old diodes should be replaced with modern ones. I think you have a nice push-pull 6bq5 power amp and nice scratch posts for the cats with these speaker grills if place is an issue.
Those speakers are very high efficiency and they are matched to the tube amplifier. Don't be fooled by the physical size of the magnets. I believe replacing them with modern junk may be a mistake. I did enjoy your video. Thanks!
The issue isn't the speakers but the "cabinet" they are in, just a huge unlined wood crate. Put them in a proper enclosure and I'll bet they'd be fine.
That's right. Those speakers are all paper coned with Alnico magnets, light weight materials and the cones are fast responding to signal making them perfect for low wattage tube gear. If you use heavy constructed acoustic suspension speakers or closed-box speakers designs, the volume and over all efficiency will drop. The cabinet acts as speaker enclosures. There is loss but on the other hand are almost like open baffle design. Maybe experimenting with some dampening insulations will improve or hinder the speaker frequency responses. Try it. cheers
Do you fly the Boeing 777?
Agree. This guy is a fool if he destroys this vintage piece.
They look like Oxford drivers
I'm happy to go against the grain here. This console stereo is a classic product of its time and should be preserved. When you listen to it, you're hearing the sound of an era somewhere between 1953 and 1963; that's very cool and special. The "CD" marks on the AM dial indicate that this unit was made between 1953 and 1963 to conform with civil defense broadcasting requirements during the Cold War with the Soviet Union. Based on its looks, I'd say that it was made in the late '50's or early '60's. It is a department store stereo made for Gimbels. If I had it, I'd restore it and keep it as original as possible. It's an important piece of American electronics and department store history. 💪👊
Couldn't have said it better
I agree, but it sounds like this fellow has no intention of doing that. Someone took good care of this unit for decades..But that's over now.
@@1958Cadillac-v2g If he doesn't like it, he can always sell it to someone who does see the value of the stereo. I just hope that he doesn't toss it.
I inherited a gorgeous Allen Organ console from 1963, it has original factory wired Dynaco stereo fm tuner and pas2 preamp. I replaced the junk ss mono amps with a matching dynaco st70 tube amp, and replaced the junk Gerrard TT with a restored dual 1229. I also replaced the crossovers and mids and tweeters (kept the jensen 12" woofers). The thing sounds stunning. You picked yours up by just yourself. It takes 3 grown people to move the Allen. It's about a tree's worth of solid walnut, gorgeous piece of furniture. This was the golden era of hifi, where these things were an investment in a household and family, like a car, and as expensive. I will cherish my time listening to this treasure with my family.
Yea DYNACO! Built my ST120, FM5 and PAT4 back in the early 70's and still have them, and they still work.
Junk? I beg to differ. Those Alnico magnets on the drivers did a good job of moving the sound and was satisfying, filling the needs to those who purchased these consoles who weren't audiophiles and on a budget.
I think he means junk compared to some of the better offerings at the time from brands like Fisher, Magnavox, RCA etc. This looks like a department store house brand. The amplifier alone is probably worth the $50 even if the rest has little value.
I had the same thought. Those are alnico drivers and I'm sure he is used to ceramic speaker mags.
@@Jaymeister587-r2e The tubes are $50 alone. I'd say altogether the amp with tubes is worth $100. It looks like a decent amp.
@@justincramer9681 This is why it's not really fair to compare speakers based on magnet size. From what I've heard, manufacturers were forced to switch from using superior Alnico magnets to weaker (and cheaper) ceramic magnets simply because cobalt prices skyrocketed and made alnico economically unfeasible to make. Because ceramic magnets are weaker, more magnetic material is needed to produce the same effect as an alnico magnet. Therefore ceramic speaker magnets are naturally bigger, but not necessarily better, and sometimes even worse than smaller alnico magnets. This switch to ceramic wasn't because of any sort of technological progress or improvement and was simply about cost savings, but it led to bulky ceramic magnets being the standard since the 70s.
Not quite junk, it was 11-17 watts 250 to 300 volts B+ with push pull 6BQ5 outputs. The cheap junk ones were single ended and produced only about 5 distorted watts, The output transformers could be better. It must play loud without too much distortion with those efficient speakers. Of course the name brands mentioned above were better. Some of the entry level highend amplifiers also used 6BQ5 outputs.
Really cheap consumer brands used something like 25L6 single ended that produced only about 2 watts per channel. Hot chassis no isolating power transformer with only 130 volt B+.
I hope you and your family enjoy the upcoming holidays Aiden! Many thanks for all your hard work in 2024. Looking forward to your 2025 videos.
Thanks, Dave! You as well!
The tuner has what was called Bantam Stereo, of which you listen to one channel of the sound on AM and the other channel on FM. That is how the stations broadcasted stereo in the late 50s and early 60s. The arm on the phono went to the 7 inch position because you bypassed the lever that is sticking up by the pivot of the tone arm. The 10 inch setting is a little button at the edge of the platter. Upgrading the speakers should make a world of difference to the sound. Good video and a great find.
Never heard it called bantam. Simulcast was the term back then.
@@MrElectrowhiz l remember early stereo radio in the UK ,two mono radio's ,left and right channels on a different setting into a stereo or two mono amps !
Yeah. Or stereo via one channel from fm, and the other via TV. That's how they did, for a short while, here in Denmark.
@@oz4acl Even after FM Stereo tuners became common in the UK they still carried it on for quite a while ...
@oz4acl That was a good idea ,never heard of it being done that way ,using the tv as well ...
As Mr. Electrowhiz noted, when this unit was produced the only over the air method of sterero was AM & FM simulcasts. This unit was designed for such a situation. FM Multiplex had not yet been approved by the FCC. Ditto about the Alnico speaker magnets - they were the only type permanent magnets available for speakers of that era. Even the finest stereo and Hi-Fi equipment of the era had this type magnet. Magnet sizes varied depending on speaker efficiency and overall design. This unit likely has about a 10-15W per channel output capability.
I can’t get over how clean and well preserved this thing is!
$50 is good for the push-pull 6BQ5 power amplifier chassis. 11-17 watts per channel depending on plate voltage. The output transformers are probably not the best but it will still have that warm tube sound.
You must change the paper capacitors around the 6BQ5s, some of them look swollen and are probably leaky. Running the amp like this can damage the tubes and output transformers. Inspect and test the other capacitors and replace as needed. Also check the electrolytics. Some of the resistors might have changed in value, check and replace.
Gimbels was a department store, so this was likely an inexpensive store product. Still sounds good though. We have a Motorola console from 1963 with three separate amps, dedicated subwoofer channel, and 33 tubes. It is simply amazing. There are some really awesome cosole stereos out there hopefully you get to see or come across one sometime but I. The meantime even this low end one was fun to see. Love your channel
I agree...Probably early '60s vintage equipment, due to the sparseness inside the cabinet!
Motorola and Msgnavox made some unusual and fairly sophisticated consoles back in the 60's, such as your 3 channel unit. Some used good quality (for that era) Jensen speakers, but sound quality was often limited by the heavy grille cloth and wood latticework over the speakers, the speaker output resonating throughout the entire cabinet, and the terrible record changer. With sealed-cabinet speakers and a better turntable, sound quality is much improved.
I’d put the two large filter caps up in the holes and then cover them with the empty cap cans to keep original appearance and keep underside clean. While a budget piece,,he it’s a survivor and worth keeping it alive and well glad you rescued it😅
your anal,,,good grief bro
OMG, Gimbel's! When I see that, I think of the original film of "Miracle at 34th Street." Probably a house brand for that late, lamented department store chain. (sigh...)
I had a 4-speed turntable like this one. It had reversible styli: one for 78-RPM records and the other stylus for all other records. The 16-RPM speed was used for playing records for the blind. Our family had a blind friend who lent me some of his books on records. I had to learn to recognise the raised dots in order to tell which side was Side A and Side B. I really enjoyed it, and I still love to listen to books in spite of the fact I have full sight.
What a radio! I miss decent radio stations that broadcast in either FM mono or FM stereo. That "multiplex" setting on the radio brought back fond memories.
If I had this lovely thing, I'd do the same things YOU want to do. This thing has a TUBE amp, for heaven's sake. Who wouldn't want to use the heck out of that thing? So lovely.
I'd find a way to fit an AUX input (if it doesn't have one already) and hook up my Raspberry Pi 4 running a dedicated music app. Or just use one of my old, junky, iPods or mobile phones.
The turntable I would leave alone to put out that vintage vibe. If you like the radio, and it works...play it to death, I say.
Very nice!
In Laurium, Michigan there is a store named The Yard Sale that encompasses two buildings on opposite sides of the street from one another. The building on the south side is a beautiful old bank and probably half of the first floor is old vinyl. They have a set of The Holy Bible for the blind at 16 rpm.
@@markrichards3747 Here's the machine on which to play those records.
It's great seeing young people fix the old audio equipment! That gives you a change to learn how to works it and how to fix it. Very satisfying when that stuff works again.
Despite your judgment on the price-sensitive build quality of this unit, I'd rather see it returned as close to the original state as possible rather than see a modification of the tuner unit. It's not up to the level of Fisher or HH Scott equipment, but it captures a moment in time. I saw your explanation about the warm feelings that the wooly sound quality evoked, and I know exactly what you mean. My friend's parents had one of these consoles and I remember the kind of rolled off bass-heavy sound, and how it made the radio announcers' voices boom. Whatever you decide to do, glad you are showing us how it goes! Keep up the good work.
Back in the day most people bought a console stereo based on the cabinet. Lucky my Uncle was a TV repairman and suggested that my parents buy a Fisher brand console and that worked for many years and sounded pretty good.
Fisher made great tuners
Its great to see these old cabinet stereos getting some love. I was given an early '60's Monarch console in about 1990, BSR turntable, full range oval speakers (9-10 inch) that had 15watts on them, AM/FM stereo receiver, it sounded surprisingly good for what it was, probably a rocking 10 watts a side but clean and loud enough to piss my roomies off :P Good job man!
It was a fun video to watch. I remember Gimbels Department Stores. We had a similar console when I was very young. Hi-Fi was all the rage. My five siblings and parents would gather around the console and sing along to Mitch Miller "sing-along" albums.
Fun project to bring back to life since it is in nice physical condition. I’ve serviced many of those VM changers back in the day. Disassemble the motor and wash both bushings and the motor shaft with lots of alcohol. Careful not to loose the thrust washers, clean them too. Then re-lubricate with light oil. The motor speed with come right back to normal. Clean rubber drive wheel with alcohol as well. If it’s glazed a little fine emery cloth or equivalent will usually restore it unless the rubber is too dry. Good luck.
That's usually all they need. I just had a 1965 Magnavox restored. The changer was playing about 3 RPM too slow and had occasional mechanical issues. Cleaning and relubing has it working perfectly now.
yes, i would like to watch a video of you upgrading this unit.
High compliance speakers with their little magnets work just fine with a low power amp. Those tin nuts were super common and worked as good as a solid nut.
I enjoyed that, would like to see it restored further. Mend It Mark from the UK fixes these old Stereograms up now and again on his channel, well worth a watch
Wow! Flashback! We had a Stereophonic All-In-One (Turntable, AM/FM, 8-Track + Two Speakers) when I was a kid. Very fond memories, but not fond enough given that I worked like an animal to save up enough to buy a Marantz Gold Series set-up when I was about 15.
Correct me if I'm wrong here, but when testing with the Marantz receiver you should really have a dummy load on the speaker outputs on the power amp side of the Gimbels unit so you don't risk running the output transformer without a load and fry it.
Remarkable clean on the inside
I'd move the preamp and amp on top of the cabinet. It would be so cool to listen to and see the tubes!
Really appreciate your content, Aiden. Watching your methodical approach and logic has boosted my confidence to troubleshoot problems.
The nice effect of high speed capacitor replacement! Yeah an Idler wheel would need some repair and oiling up some of the parts on the turntable and it would play nice! But I don't think your going to that point anytime soon! Oh well!
It says Gimbels on the back of the inside phono/radio compartment. I'm thinking that was an old department store back in the 50's or 60's. Might see if you can cross reference it on Google. And Yeah, I'd love to see that upgraded! Bring it on!
"Does Gimbel's tell Macy's"? Bob Crane, on "Hogan's Heroes"
That's the MCM version of the Gimbel's logo.
Couldn't help but think of "It's beginning to look a lot like Gimbel's...", especially with it being so close to Christmas.
Gimbel's was bought out in the latter 80's and retired the name in '87. Most likely why it didn't ring a bell when it was shown.
Also, that clip in the inside back on the left was for the 45 stacking spindle.
Department store models are often produced for many store brands by the same company with the same electronics in different cabinets.
I saw the Gimbels name on the inside of the cabinet, In the 40 and 50 they were aligned in New York City across the street from Macy's and a competitor. So Not a high end but not junk either. Could be a fine unit for basement party room. We also add a jack for Aux Like a CD player. Should be a fun unit with that warm Vacuum Tube tone. I rebuild a Grundig smaller but similar setup and it turned out great. Great effort Dennis
Those are a good way of finding a cheaper low power tube amp. Most people don't collect them. They're too big and as you noted the speakers usually suck. So as long as the tubes are good and available. I used a tube amp out of one like that. The cabinet was destroyed but the amp was good.
Wow, that is quite the find. Gimble's has some Hollywood connections. Nice find.
I'm with Mr Mojo, MORE!!! Great fun watching you bring this tube tank back. Must be a cheapo cuz a good one of these would have broken your table, {back} lol. We had a Montgomery Wards console with 8 track as well. However the morse Electrophonic console was the heaviest, and the most beautiful. I would love to get one of those again, and hop it up. Happy Holidays.
Cool project and indicative of these old consoles. My parents had a nice Magnavox TV console from about 1970 that my brother and I replaced the woofers on after we blew them. That thing sounded pretty good through many house parties with a quarter on the stylus to keep records from skipping. LOL.
Thanks!
Actually pretty cool old console...
Good job.. My grandparent's had a similar one. Bring's me back.
Thank you.
✌️❤️😁
That’s actually a decent little set. Nice work
Got a 1961 Pilot console , minus record player and amp, but with Original 3 way fully enclosed boxed speakers inside the cabinet. mint, beautiful piece of furniture . Hooked up my 68 fisher receiver and am using a 80s sony turntable. It sounds great . I guess the fully enclosed, speakers in the cabinet give more bass. not ported, but not boomy. Cool thing, its still has the warm .rich tone I remember from my childhood in the 60s. I get that those open speakers wont have much bass - almost all manufacturers just stuck them on the front - ,not enclosed. Pilot was apparently top of the line till the late 60s. I route my TV through it, but it also kicks ass on music..
Aiden, I appreciate your approach to watts, volts, amps and resistors and your honesty when admitting flubs. Keep on keeping on. I'm looking forward to 2025.
Thanks!
There isn't much of a use case of consoles any longer, but it's still nice to have a piece of audio nostalgia. Thanks for another interesting fixit video. I'd like to see it further restored if it's worth it to you. Lots of time involved to fix what would be considered Lo-Fi equipment.
I don't mind watching you fix Low end electronics. I still need to get around to fixing my stuff, and watching you do relatively simple repairs makes me more confident to do my own repairs. The record player might be an idler drive and probably needs to be oiled; gummed up grease will slow it down.
That amp looks really impressive!
This looks like a console from the early/mid 60's, also the style is probably Dutch modern and probably made by zenith for gimbals department stores as an in-house brand, also the fm section is set up for stereo by selecting the stereo fm multiplex setting
This is my personal favorite stuff even though l could never fix it! I listen to my parents 1962 Magnavox (that's when Dad sad he bought it) like once a week or so. I love it! And it just keeps working! Great videos by the way. I've subscribed from the start and watched your journey. Merry Christmas!
$50 for a tube power amp with 6bq5 tubes - EL 84. I'm all over that! Very nice.
Tuning that turntable - you need the strobe light and aluminium disk set with markings for the 4 speeds, to tune it. The early turntables were easy to tune
OR the RPM app on your phone.
AWESOME FIND .. ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
regarding repairs..
Your so lucky this unit is so clean inside
Hasnt been robbed for parts
and is showing few signs of previous repairs
Your not hearing the " rushing noise " so common in modern FM receivers
Because in this circuit FM audio recovery is being done by " Slope Detection "
As you discovered, Peaking all the coils ( frontend and IF plus detector)
will likely make a massive improvement to sensitivity 😊
However to align the fm detector correctly you actually adjust it for zero DC output while tuned to an receive frequency centered unmodulated carrier ..
Enjoy 🤓
Ps, in order to maintain a vintage appearance while recapping, it's common practice to reinstate the original caps but leave them unconnected ( isolated), while tagging the ( much smaller ) modern equivalents to the underside 🤫
I have seen modern caps packed within the vintage ( capacitor) enclosure, I personally don't recommend doing this .. 🤒
Pps, the record player is likely running a little slow because the bearings are particularly seized
( Remove the motor and lubricant very carefully, then wipe dry and reinstall)🙂
Maybe, upgrade the turntable. You already fixed the rest. Console cab looks good, but I guess
you could try replacing other stuff if it wrecked the looks/ or didn't work out just
put the original back in. You have a good working knowledge/ approach to
fixing stereo's Your alignment surprised your self. nice work.
Wells-Gardner was a big Chicago electronics manufacturer around the late 50s-early 60s, and they made consoles for many big department stores of the era like Sears and Montgomery Ward. Your lightweight chassis with the tuner and preamp all in one are clues that they may be the manufacturer for your Gimbels console. SAMS has all the Wells Gardner schematics.
This unit was not top of the line and certainly built with a cost factor in mind. That said, it’s amazing how far turntable technology has advanced from 60 plus years ago. Most phono changers of the era were mounted on springs.
That's a Voice of music record changer. Clean and lubricate it, replace the stylus if the cartridge still works and it will play all of your records no problem without any harm to them.
I love the old console stereos. I wish I had room for one. That is a pretty cabinet.
Nice work, Aiden! It would be interesting to hear some better speakers to see how it sounds then. It could be very interesting. If you can maybe work on that turntable a little bit to a speed it up might be just a pot somewhere or some oil. It sounded a little noisy. You and a few other TH-camrs have inspired me to get into fixing these old audio pieces. I’m building my dim bulb tester currently. I bought a HarmonKardon 330 C and a Sansui 5500 off of eBay, they will be my first victims.
There's nothing to upgrade on speakers, those are high sensitivity paper cone drivers most probably with alnico magnets. Give/sell it to someone who see the value in that "garbage" and can treasure it.
Nice work. A simple speaker upgrade would be very interesting. I think the outputs could handle it.
When powered up. The power amplifier probably produces little more than 1 watt.
I love tube amplifiers as they have warm and special in the sound they produce. Thumbs up if you keep it.
Merry Christmas to you too and happy new year !!
you need the MPX adaptor to get FM stereo and at least the amp looks like it has P-P 6BQ5 output tubes and the output transformers would be great for a higher end build
You have a pretty decent valve amp there that is remarkably clean, so I’d give it a new set of speakers to play with (if you have the time re-box it so you can see the valves) and it’s not hard to add a Bluetooth receiver to these things to give them a new life in this higher tech age.
would love to see this updated! Great vid
I looked up some specs on those old console type stereo units and Magnavox, Zenith, Motorola and others used speaker drivers with specs about 90db, 1 watt 1 meter which is very good. That is why a lot of these units with modest 5 - 10 watt amps sound so good.
Beautiful sounding hi fi,
I wonder if the switching has a auxiliary setting that would allow the connection of a tape recorder or even a compact disc player.
Tho in my opinion those transducers are priceless - absolutely do not change them.
Thank for your giving this console a new lease on life!
I would be interested in you doing what you suggested. There is a market for upgrading these types of consoles & some small companies/idividuals are making a good chunk of change at it. A bluetooth adaptor, simple, good quality belt drive turntable & better speakers would make this a nice piece of mid-century modern for a living room with that style!
Thank you, great video, as always!!! I would like to see you upgrade this.
Nice video. 🎉
Be cool to hear a guitar through that amp. 🎸
I am doing just that right now. Got myself an older console and am putting new components into it... would love to see what you do.
You landed a beauty! I purchased a Zenith 1960 console ina very similar style like your console! Mine does ned work and its a work inprogress currently.
Loved the Charlie Brown Linus & Lucy dance at 28:50! Hilarious!
Great video, I recently started following your channel and find your content interesting. Keep it up!
Full resto-mod. Upgrade all you can but keep the cabinet OEM. Somebody will buy it. Thanks for the video.
I'm happy to see young people like you into older technology. Just curious why you didn't check the tolerance of the resistors. They can change value, changing the bias voltage on tubes. This could affect the sound negatively and put the tubes under unnecessary stress. I'm sure you already know that.
Yes please do the upgrade.
The power PP EL84 amplifier looks like it would be worth exploring some more. The iron on it looks good and heavy so it has the potential to provide quality hifi and a reasonable amount of power (>20W).
i had a friend who took a gutted console and put full size components in there standing on there rears supported on wooden slats. it was just freaking cool.
Your cat thinks it's the world's strangest scratching post.
Good job fixing the power amp. Maybe you should take the record player out and run it over to your local car wash. 😀👍
You are going to need those original high efficiency speakers to match the low wattage output of that amp. You probably have about 10 watts per channel there if your lucky on a good day. You do need to change the capacitors on the tweeter and midrange, as they are probably high in esr or off value by now. Probably why it sounds muffled.
G,day from Sydney Australia.
Great teaching video: for sure. What is the cabinet like? Veneer particle board or solid wood?
Merry Christmas 🎄
🪫🔋💫
Merry Christmas & Happy new Year too.. thanks for sharing...🙄🙄😄😄😄
I suspect the vintage is somewhere around 1961. At that time there was a brief period where AM/FM simulcasts were used for stereo, if I'm not mistaken. That's where the weird AM/FM combo switch selection comes into play.
Nice. I hate , adding a "but" ! But, i would have forestalled the alignment untill after the compleat recaping. As that could have been good or closer to correct whith all good caps.
However still a good job. So fun . Thanks for the memories. 50 year electronics tech here !
I wish I could hire you to fix my vacuum tube radio, wirh turntable. I know you would treat it kindly. You appreciate the consoles.
Excellent Mid century modern cabinet design, with the desirable cowboy legs.
Current mcm style cabinets like that go for $2k -$3k from good cabinet makers and retro furniture producers
The power section alone is well worth $50. I scored a 1959 Motorola console stereo at a thrift store for $7. The left and right channels share a 12AX7 preamp tube with an EL84 output tube per channel and separate transformers for the two sides. It also has a center 15" speaker which has a 12AX7 into two EL84s and a large output transformer of it's own in the power amp.
Not a lot of wattage but great tube fidelity and harmonic reproduction.
Those speakers are high efficiency , designed to work in open back cabinets. Just about any woofer that you find today will be for air suspension systems. P.A. speakers would work, but need a lot more power. Are there any manufactures numbers on any of the parts ? They may look like 528.0000, 137.1234, and would be stamped on the speaker magnet, transformer covers, and the tuner. You might be able to find a schematic from another set that they made.
The end was great when you confirmed it was a piece of shit.
You spoke my exact thoughts with your plan and how it looks too that was hilarious!
Gimbels department store brand..Opened in 1847 closed it's doors in 1987...at one time they were the largest department store chains in the country...may be cheap but there is history there...
"Does Gimbel's tell Macy's"? Bob Crane on the old Hogan's Heroes TV show......
I would luv to get something like this but retro fit it with all new modern equipment 👍
If you want higher quality capacitors use Cornell Dubilier poly-film capacitors. Their incredibly high tolerance and they work pretty well in audio circuits like what you're working on here. As far as I know you CAN get them from Mouser.
Nice repair and nice machine though made cheaply. Thanks for nice vid.
Thanks for fixing that pile of 💩. It was entertaining and informative too. Take-aways for me - the speakers were not enclosed, so you're going to get sound cancellation and cross-talk between the channels. I'd be curious if the tube amp, fed from a quality source and driving quality, high efficiency speakers, would produce quality sound.
only had to see the Thumbnail to answer YES DEFINATELY WORTH IT! at the very least its a beautiful piece of Furniture....
The thing is these console speakers almost never show the full potential of the tube amps inside. I have a Fisher tube console and the sound is so so, I would say pleasant but not awesome. The tuner though is amazing. It picks up everything and I live pretty rural. Anyway, I also have a pulled Fisher tube amp that is the same amp that is inside my Fisher console. The pulled amp sounds great with modern speakers. It has connections for two pairs of speakers and another speaker connection for "space filling" speakers that only puts out the high end frequency of the music. It's a great amp but it seems that the designers at Fisher tamed it down a bit for the console. Perhaps via the preamp section?
Good score. The power amplifier is worth the $50 fersure.
It's crazy clean on the inside!
Is the record play belt driven? If so it should be an easy fix.
I think it might be an idler driven one
That looks like a quality made unit and those speaker magnets were actually big for the time...
Also, perceived or actual good quality or not, I don't see what that should determine if its worth fixing or not. If you like it and want it, fix it. If not, sell it on. It's an example of what was available at the time.
You can get much higher values for rectifier capacitors with solid-state rectifiers, with tube rectifiers checking the tube data. I think these old diodes should be replaced with modern ones. I think you have a nice push-pull 6bq5 power amp and nice scratch posts for the cats with these speaker grills if place is an issue.
I'll take those 'junk' speakers with the 'weak' magnets!!!!
I like tinkering on the mechanicals. The turntable takes a day to get back up to operating condition. A complete clean and fresh grease.