I’m not even having to do any of the work. But it’s ALMOST just as painful to watch someone else go through reworks due to shit parts. Godspeed for dd speed shop
That cam failure was most likely NOT "shit parts". From what I saw, it was most likely due to using the wrong motor oil, an incorrect break-in process, or a combination of both.
LOL. That's the way I took the hood off my Chevelle. I used a 'gantry crane' (2x10s 2x4s and a Hazzard Fraud 2400# winch) rather than a tow truck though.
Engine is already out- put on engine stand and go thru your bearings. They're soft and will grab an imbed metal particles and help prevent damage to the crank IF YOU DO IT NOW. most likely crank may just need some polishing with 400 grit wet and dry sandpaper, fresh bearings and good to go! Peace of mind- never run blind- check 'em, brother!👍
Thank you Dan for taking us through this. I really appreciate you sharing both the ups AND THE DOWNS of hot rodding. I have a tendency to be really hard on myself and discouraged when stuff like this happens. You are helping me see this as just another day in the life of a hobby, not the end of the world. Thanks. PS Danny is making me laugh today... well, she makes me laugh all the time.
You are exactly correct Dan. I hope Comp Cams sees the plethora of videos like yours and smartens up. Otherwise they will be going out of business. They used to make a good budget minded performance cams. My dad used them for decades. Some egg headed bean counter has basically destroyed their brand recognition
Dan you were right once again, why does anyone doubt your knowledge? I hate to see you have to do another cam swap but glad I get to watch it. Awesome tow truck and Biscayne 👍👍
When they say that green stuff is a 'cam lube', it's more for rollers. I only use the black moly paste like Isky Rev-lube on flat tappets. Stays put. As far as what caused it. Really impossible to tell at this point. Either the lifters OR the cam could have had an insufficient radius. Once they start grinding you'll never know which one was 'the offender'. You could check the taper across the other lobes to get an idea. It also could have been the start up break in technique. Those parts you're using are the exact same ones that contributed to failure twice before. Melling lifters and Comp Cams. At least you should have mic'd the cam and lifters and recorded the values, or noted them. I would have taken measurements, it's not that hard, or take a lifter crown and put it perpendicular on the body of another to check by 'eyeball'. You can also use a flat piece of glass to 'spin' a lifter on. Sorry that happened. I feel for you, I'd probably just step away from it for a while. Probably ought to maybe flush out the oil gallery's and maybe change the bearings. Those cam bearings don't have copper, they're just straight steel backed babbitt cause the cam only turns half the speed of the crank. I suggest after you break in this cam you check to make sure the pushrods are turning. Paint a white stripe on them (I use a paint pen and mark a '+' at the top) and pull the valve covers and spin the engine over. You can even start it up. If the pushrods aren't spinning neither are the lifters. Some will spin faster or slower than others. That's OK as long as they all turn. You can even check this BEFORE you start it. If some don't spin, swap the lifters around in the bores until they ALL DO. The taper on the cam and lifters is really small, .0005 - .0015. Sometimes a lobe or lifter will have more or less than others and need to be 'matched up' to a companion mate to spin. I've had some "new' lifters that were almost flat and cams that had nearly no taper. Good luck dude! Hope you get it! Third time lucky.
Pulling the motor out is the perfect beta test of the new tow truck hoist ;) "I think what we are going to do is " cut open that WIX oil filter and see how much metal was captured ?
Hope the neighbors weren't too offended by Danni's swearing lol!! Bad deal to go through. I have been hearing about the Comp issue for years in Big Block Ford stuff. You can hold the base of the lifter against the side of another lifter to check for the crown. Works slick!
You sir are the definition of being consistent and seeing things through. You said you work? I thought TH-cam was your only job. I can't even comprehend how you get so much done so fast while still having a job. I can't even fix a vacuum leak on my trans am that I knew about 3 weeks ago. On top of that you record it for youtube, which I know can be difficult especially if things aren't going the way you planned.
New junk parts (lifters) now as you said all that time effort and another round of new parts/gaskets to do it all again. Shan on whoever made those lifters. 100% agree with you Dan, no crown on them lifters, they destroyed the cam.
Sadly even the cheap parts were made to some degree of quality back then. I slammed a lifter into a FE ford after it chucked a pushrod and it’s still running to this day. This was 8 years ago and a no name off the shelf parts store lifter! Whatever happened from then to now with quality control is a real shame.
It's an issue with motor oil today that is causing flat tappet cam problems... 99% of off-the-shelf motor oils no longer contain Zinc, which is a high pressure lubricant that IS responsible for protecting the lifters and cam lobes. With the Zinc missing out of the oil, a cam WILL go flat very quickly. All cars made today have roller cams in them, and don't need the Zinc anymore to protect the cam. The EPA found out some years ago that the Zinc in the oil WILL coat the inside of a catalytic converter and render it ineffective, once a car got older and started to consume some oil, so they REALLY lowered the permissible amount of Zinc in motor oils to basically nothing. For ANY car with a flat tappet cam in the engine, you'll HAVE to buy a specialty racing type oil, or get a bottle of ZDDP or Zinc additive and add it to a conventional off the shelf oil. Failure to do this WILL cause cam failure very quickly for a new performance cam with a more aggressive lobe profile and big valve springs. A person COULD get away without the Zinc in an older car with a mild stock cam that has been already broken in, and weak valve springs. For a new performance cam, forget it...Without the Zinc, it will NEVER stand a chance of surviving, ans the result will be what you saw in this video.
@@davelowets I haven't tested this yet in a new build, but the 540ratblog tests and ranks oil for wear protection. He discusses cam and lifter problems etc. He rates so called break-in oils poorly, and "debunks" the "old wives tale" regarding zinc. "I tested the zinc additives “ZDDPlus” which added a whopping 1848 ppm zinc when added at the recommended quantity, and “Edelbrock Zinc Additive” which added 573 ppm zinc when added at the recommended quantity. Each zinc additive was tested in two full synthetic oils and one conventional oil. And in EVERYONE of the six test oils, the wear protection capability DROPPED SIGNIFICANTLY."
Your assessment is spot on Dan Poorly ground and likely not case hard and for that you would need to test but your identification of lack of convex cam face is telling. Comp Cams should be disgusted. You have a consumer affairs in Canada and you should seek to recover the cost of replacement parts and at least some restitution for a few hours of labour and the cost of the assembly lube and oil costs as compensation. If Comp cams don't back up their product - they should be held to account. Never use them again - companies that don't back their product are not worth dealing with IMO
I had the same problem with my 390FE. My Cam look just like yours. It was a melling Cam with perfect circle lifters. I replaced it with Lunati Cam and lift your kit, no more problems. Since it had been a brand new motor with only 14 miles on it when the cam went flat, I pulled it apart cleaned everything thoroughly and put new bearings and oil pump in it
It wasn't a waste of time or money. You provide a great service. Now we know to at least be sure to check for a crown when inspecting new lifters. You got a bad batch of them, but hopefully you figured it out and were able to warn us. Good luck!
I'm sure they weren't bad... The crown was probably gone because it was worn off from an incorrect break-in process, or from using current off-the-shelf motor oil. Pretty much ANY conventional motor oil that you find on the shelf today, even at Auto Zone, Advanced Auto, Gas station, Wal-Mart, or wherever, will NOT work with a flat tappet cam today. There's NOT enough Zinc in today's oils to protect a flat tappet cam, and the results of using it will look exactly lile what happened in this video. For any engine with a flat tappet cam (ESPECIALLY for breaking in a new cam and lifters) you HAVE to buy a specific racing type oil (NOT some "racing oil" off the shelf at O'Reilly's or whatever) that has plenty of Zinc in it, OR you'll have to buy a ZDDP or Zinc additive to add to off the shelf oils today, or you WILL wipe the cam in short order.
Melling has been a name to trust. I sure hope the new lifters don't change that! Lucas is excellent products. Nothing wrong with their lube. I personally like to crank the engine with the starter while the intake is still off to make sure the lifts are turning when the spring pressure is applied.
Not genius... You don't EVER want to needlessly crank an engine over with an unbroken-in flat tappet cam in it. You want to CAREFULLY set the engine up so that it fires to life the instant you hit the starter when you have a new cam in it, and then IMMEDIATELY proceed with the break-in process. Even just needlessly cranking an engine, with a new flat tappet cam it, can be harmful to the camshaft before it's broken in. You want that engine to snap to life instantly, and immediately being it up to 2200-2400 RPMs to start the break-in. ANY amount of cranking or idling before the break-in is complete IS harmful for a flat tappet camshaft, and you may compromise a successful break-in, and end up with flat lobes very quickly down the road. If you're concerned about your lifters rotating, leave the valve covers off, mark the top portion of your pushrods with a Sharpie, and watch for those to rotate instead, indicating that the lifter is rotating ALSO.
You 🎉 are absolutely right 🎉 as I have been telling everyone for at least 15 years the metal we have today in our world is junk . I know because I use to scrap 😢😢😢
There has been a lot of cams went down in the last 3 years. Not just Comp,Summit tech’s have had a record number of all cam and lifters have been bad. It suck’s redoing it. Comp done me a custom cut cam to fix my motor and it’s right now. And I got to go. Bigger and God does it ever beat the ground. My customers say they hear me coming 5 miles away. I love it. Sorry you had to redo it.
Dan, on flat tappet cams I always use cam assembly grease and not liquid lube. The liquid lube is ok on roller cams, but doesn't cling to the lobes and lifter bases of flat tappet cams. I mentioned this last time as well.
You can use the liquid lube if you plan on firing it up to do the break-in right away that day. If it's going to be sitting for more than a day before it gets fired up and broken in, then use the grease that will still be there later. I refuse to waste my time with flat tappet cams anymore today. There's really NO reason to fuck about with them when roller cam technology has come so far now. The advantages of a roller over a flat tappet are MANY, and totally worth the extra dollars involved with them. Even for a mild street application, I will use a hydraulic roller, and avoid a flat tappet at all costs.
Sorry you got bit by the bad lifter bug, at least you caught it early enough. A little literary expressiveness is expected in these situations. As I install my lifters I like to check them face to face to check the concave. Also i pull the valve covers after cam break-in and start the engine to readjust my rockers (if the pushrods are spinning then the lifters should be too).
Hey Dan and Danielle 👋, what a good use of the tow rig. That has to be no fun doing it twice. At least it didn't get the bearings. Thanks for sharing and have a great weekend 👋
Big block Chevy is know to eat cams very easily, I think your doing the right thing by sending it and carrying on! Love! Got to say though, this is a reason why I only build sbc. Love the channel, keep it going!
I agree with you Dan,soon as you started describing what happened I thought sounds like poor machineing/defective lifter especially since it's not all of them. Great content,real world issues
Great job Dan, hard to argue with the evidence you lay out. I have several good used BB Mopar cams from the 70s and 80s, the plan was always to use them in builds with new lifters and just give 'em a good break-in like we did a dozen times over the years 'cuz "Hey, they look perfect and ran strong for "X" thousand miles BITD, so we're golden". I wont be just blindly throwing some random set of new lifters in with them. About a thousand guys like me owe you and Dani a burger
Several years ago when I was in tech school to be a mechanic, my teacher actually had a small collection of brand new lifters that he had checked that were machined wrong out of the box and never ran. He trusted NOTHING when he got new parts. First engine I built he made me check every lifter to make sure there was a proper bevel on them with a straight edge. He also swore by melling lifters.
Best thing I was taught....after the new cam and lifters are in, mark each lifter with a sharpie, then turn the cam gear by hand and watch to see that each lifter is spinning in its bore. Good luck Dan
You've got that wrong.. You will NOT see the lifter rotate by turning the cam by hand. What you do is put the motor all together, but leave the valve covers off. You mark the upper portion of the PUSHRODS with a Sharpie, start the engine, and then watch for THOSE to rotate instead...
@@davelowets I'll politely disagree. It does work, I've done it. Guy that showed me is a well respected 9 second car machinist. I have also heard of your method and agree it is another helpful test to aid in diagnosis. Thanks
@@57guitar1 Doing it by hand will NOT guarantee you that they will ALSO rotate when they are under pressure from the valve springs. That is not the way to properly check it.
@@davelowets one of the things I don't like about the internet. Everything sounds like the end all be all. I think that my test is a good thing to check during assembly, your test would be a next step. The main point is to share experiences and help each other.
@@57guitar1 I didn't mean it to try and be a dick. Sorry if you took it that way. I've never seen lifters not rotate by themselves in the block by spinning the cam manually, but I have seen them not rotate when the spring pressure is on them. I simply wait til it's all together and check it then. Myself, I don't even mess around with a flat tappet cam in any of my own stuff anymore, only if a customer wants one, will I install one. With the technology available today, and the ease of custom ground roller cams, there's just too many upsides to a roller to not use one.
At least put a magnetic drain plug in the oil pan to hopefully get any remaining iron powder out. Change the oil soon after the new cam break-in. Keep up the good work.
Three things to remember,. . . . 1 prime by hand, 2 prime by hand, 3 prime by hand,. . . . drill motor and distributor shaft or the proper adapter then prime to flush out the carb cleaner, you know this, just don't get sidetracked. . .
Good work. It's a good reminder too to check all parts, even new ones, especially these days where quality control isn't always what it should be. Good job on being persistent and seeing it through instead of tossing it in storage for the winter, which I would have understood doing. This is also a good test run of the tow truck showing you all of the different ways it can be used!
Thanks for the videos, I look forward to every one. One more thing I do for each cam change is I leave the Intake off the engine until I have everything that I can assembled, then I pour the assembly lube on cam and lifters right through the open valley, this way I know it hasn't drained off the cam before initial start up. I'll pour it around the lifters hoping the assembly lube will work its way around the lifters and provide protection also at start up. Install the intake, carb, distributor ect, just before start up. Good luck.
It's so good that we all start calling these companies out so we can keep them honest if thy start to lose alot of customers. Keep up the great content both of you 👏 👍 👌 🙌
Hey Dan try a piece of threaded rod instead of looking for a 5/16 bolt next time your installing a cam , you can have a nice long handle for lots of leverage .
That sucks that you’re having to do that! But it also makes me wonder how many other budget builders out there that’s gotten junk and same thing happened to them, or worse. Your situation most likely isn’t the first or last, unfortunately.
The thing that sucks is that the new lifters might not be any better. When the Chinese translation for names like Comp Cams means "Good enough for you auto parts", what's left? $400+ for a set of Rhodes or Crower lifters to have something reliable? It's almost as if we're seeing the bottom up side of Cash for Clunkers when engine parts manufacturers intentionally build catastrophic garbage.
I built a motor last spring of 2021 and used a comp cam and lifter set, broke it in all according to comps recommendations just like Dan, 4 lifters that were doing the same thing and ate the cam, should have checked the lifters for the crown first I guess
@@justinallmacher4996 Uncle Tony had a cam/lifter issue awhile back too. For my engine, I watched ebay for a while buying NOS 1960's GM lifters a couple at a time until I had a full set for my Olds 394. At least I feel confident they are American quality. Street Racing Channel just today has a new video where his engine had a lifter come apart. Not good!
@@Freedomquest08 I saw that one as well, I was going to use lunati but I've used comp in the past a couple times and had good success, wish I would have went with lunati now though
I have a big block Ford I went through three camshafts with I thought it was my fault I ran zinc additive. Talk to cam reps from competition cams. Did everything they told me to do. Still failed. Went to lunati Cam and lifters never had a problem since. Motor still running great after 3 years of this debacle. Best of luck Dan.
If someone hasn't already mentioned it, now would be a good time to install a magnetic drain plug to help pull any residual steel/iron out of the system that may have been missed during your Brakleen bath. Tough luck for you, Dan. I know my next cam and lifter kit will not be of the same brand with which you had this issue.
I don't use competition cams anymore Or I go strictly roller cam. There're a little more pricey but you get better performance. But you're doing what your pocketbook say you could do so keep up the good work.
Hey Dan, You can't be that laid-back. You have to get mad once in awhile.If that was me, I would have been throwing a fit. All the time you put into it for an hour run time. You have the patience of a saint. Sorry you have to go through it again. Love the videos. Take care and be safe.
Dan I worked for Chevrolet through the soft cam era 80's and 90's until 2008. We were doing cams daily and just fired them in under warranty. No special break in lubes or any other bs. Those motors went another 100k plus with no issues cam wise. If you have to jump through hoops to make a cam live more than a couple hundred miles its strictly a quality control issue period.
One good thing out all this is one peace of golden goodness in one place when done work of art as always keep rubber on the the road drive on Dan great shows keep up the good work
Hey Dan, first off, I'm sorry you are having to go through this. We all work hard for our money and then to spend it unknowingly on this kind of junk, is just a kick in the nuts! Time is money to most of us too. I stated it in the earlier video, Comp has not been known for having proper taper on their cams...it has been an ongoing issue and apparently, they aren't real interested in fixing their problems with QC. If you want to dig further into the autopsy, for peace of mind, mic the right and left side at the peak of each lobe to measure the taper on the cam (if any). The grey rectangle shaped wear on that one lifter, like you said, is proof that the lifter was not spinning and there was not proper taper on the cam. I am happy to see how Summit did the right thing by you and stood by what they sell. Hopefully, they put some fire under Comp for that. Best wishes on making this right and getting the Biscayne back on the road!
Cheer Up DD about the engine, it happens to the best of us. At least you have an awesome tow lift to help you out with the reassembling and future ease in towing abilities!!!
Dont burn your self out on all the fun. Dont be ascared to take a vacation from it. Your subscribers will always be right here waiting for you when you get back.
Your doing what needs to be done Dan. Sorry for the bad luck, guess we all have it occasionally. Hopefully you can recoup some of the lost dollars. Still anxious to see you drive the Biscayne down the road.
I clean my cams thoroughly with acetone then spray my cams with approximately two coats of dry-lube. I use the lube paste that comes with the camshaft upon installation. The dry lube is also great prep for storing the camshafts.
I remember as a kid we would rebuild our lifters (tear them apart, clean the sludge out of them and throw them back in in random order). If they weren't domed--we used them. No issues ever! Ahhh, memories!!! 😆
Would love to say I dont feel your pain but unfortunately I've been exactly in your position, push through it and get it fixed itll be worth it! Great job. And off topic anyway to get a story on how you and peg from zip ties became friends. Thanks and have a good one
I have pulled lots of motors with a tow truck. Lifted front wheel drive cars off of motor and sub frames. Pulled tree stumps lol. Your going to love how handy that truck is.
Not a fan of using a used cam but it is your project. You have it out I would put in a new cam and lifters. Otherwise you might be doing it a third time. But the choice is yours. Your videos are always fun to watch. One of my favorite channels.
I hear you if it was me I would put in a new one but what you are saying makes sense. I would probably avoid comp cams and go gm performance. Anyway it will be interesting. I am a fan of the channel.
I hate to say this because im 110 percent sure you know a hell of alot more then a but didn't they have different main bearings in the early big blocks, the block side bearing had a grove in them and thats how the cam got oiled,,and i apologize if i missed you say that in a vid, i dont think i missed any and also sorry if its been mentioned 1000 times and i didn't see it,,but you rock sir and Danny does too, we need more of her, her laugh can fix a bad mood,,,great great team guys,love ya,please keep it up
Built a few big blocks, and have washed-out the cam bearings, like yours, twice. Same engine back to back. Finally after 2 new cams the Chevy parts Man started asking questions about the build. He deduced the oil pump pressure was suspect, not too little, but too much. We talked about hi volume vs hi pressure performance pumps, and how hi oil pressure/volume pumps during break-in could "Wash the bearings", that is, provide too much OP during startup and run in. He said that Chevrolet had figured out how to properly oil the big block, and
it didn't require large volumes or pressure to run . He suggested break in with a stock pump, and then jump to the HpHv if I felt it necessary. Never did, it's still running today. Hope this helps.
Comp should have next day aired you a roller setup for all your troubles. Sorry you're going through all this mess bud. Maybe...just maybe...the dump might provide a better cam next time.
Reminds me of my scrap yard era of my life but I don’t think I ever pulled a good motor out of one of my good cars with one of my wreckers! But nice work nothing Destroyed!!
well, watching dan lube his shaft was the highlight of my day!
🤣LMFAO
Zoinks!!!
I thought the same thing...
I’m not even having to do any of the work. But it’s ALMOST just as painful to watch someone else go through reworks due to shit parts. Godspeed for dd speed shop
Yeah man. It sucks. I've put on parts and had to take them right back because of being DOA. Parts houses don't pay you for your wasted time.
That cam failure was most likely NOT "shit parts". From what I saw, it was most likely due to using the wrong motor oil, an incorrect break-in process, or a combination of both.
I did bodywork 42 years and never pulled a hood with a tow truck. That cracked me up. Good Work!
He's listening to Peg's advice, but he doesn't have room for an excavator to do it properly..
😂
You guys have one of the most honest channels out there.. No B.S. just showing what happened! This is why I am subscribed! You rock!!
That hood removal process has got to be a first on TH-cam. Always enjoy your videos.
LOL. That's the way I took the hood off my Chevelle. I used a 'gantry crane' (2x10s 2x4s and a Hazzard Fraud 2400# winch) rather than a tow truck though.
LOL...who says you need 2 or 3 people to remove a hood?
This Canadian clown never ceases to amaze me!
Yeah but he's going to put Mur out of work. Lol
Engine is already out- put on engine stand and go thru your bearings. They're soft and will grab an imbed metal particles and help prevent damage to the crank IF YOU DO IT NOW. most likely crank may just need some polishing with 400 grit wet and dry sandpaper, fresh bearings and good to go! Peace of mind- never run blind- check 'em, brother!👍
Thigs got real when "less gentle " was said. Dan your good work is a motivator for us spinning wrenches on our junk.
I'd pull a few main and rod caps to check the bearings for scoring. Pretty easy to replace when everything's accessible.
Thank you Dan for taking us through this. I really appreciate you sharing both the ups AND THE DOWNS of hot rodding. I have a tendency to be really hard on myself and discouraged when stuff like this happens. You are helping me see this as just another day in the life of a hobby, not the end of the world. Thanks. PS Danny is making me laugh today... well, she makes me laugh all the time.
You are exactly correct Dan. I hope Comp Cams sees the plethora of videos like yours and smartens up. Otherwise they will be going out of business. They used to make a good budget minded performance cams. My dad used them for decades. Some egg headed bean counter has basically destroyed their brand recognition
Dan you were right once again, why does anyone doubt your knowledge? I hate to see you have to do another cam swap but glad I get to watch it. Awesome tow truck and Biscayne 👍👍
When they say that green stuff is a 'cam lube', it's more for rollers. I only use the black moly paste like Isky Rev-lube on flat tappets. Stays put. As far as what caused it. Really impossible to tell at this point. Either the lifters OR the cam could have had an insufficient radius. Once they start grinding you'll never know which one was 'the offender'. You could check the taper across the other lobes to get an idea. It also could have been the start up break in technique. Those parts you're using are the exact same ones that contributed to failure twice before. Melling lifters and Comp Cams. At least you should have mic'd the cam and lifters and recorded the values, or noted them. I would have taken measurements, it's not that hard, or take a lifter crown and put it perpendicular on the body of another to check by 'eyeball'. You can also use a flat piece of glass to 'spin' a lifter on.
Sorry that happened. I feel for you, I'd probably just step away from it for a while. Probably ought to maybe flush out the oil gallery's and maybe change the bearings. Those cam bearings don't have copper, they're just straight steel backed babbitt cause the cam only turns half the speed of the crank.
I suggest after you break in this cam you check to make sure the pushrods are turning. Paint a white stripe on them (I use a paint pen and mark a '+' at the top) and pull the valve covers and spin the engine over. You can even start it up. If the pushrods aren't spinning neither are the lifters. Some will spin faster or slower than others. That's OK as long as they all turn. You can even check this BEFORE you start it. If some don't spin, swap the lifters around in the bores until they ALL DO. The taper on the cam and lifters is really small, .0005 - .0015. Sometimes a lobe or lifter will have more or less than others and need to be 'matched up' to a companion mate to spin. I've had some "new' lifters that were almost flat and cams that had nearly no taper.
Good luck dude! Hope you get it! Third time lucky.
Pulling the motor out is the perfect beta test of the new tow truck hoist ;)
"I think what we are going to do is " cut open that WIX oil filter and see how much metal was captured ?
Hope the neighbors weren't too offended by Danni's swearing lol!! Bad deal to go through. I have been hearing about the Comp issue for years in Big Block Ford stuff. You can hold the base of the lifter against the side of another lifter to check for the crown. Works slick!
You sir are the definition of being consistent and seeing things through. You said you work? I thought TH-cam was your only job. I can't even comprehend how you get so much done so fast while still having a job. I can't even fix a vacuum leak on my trans am that I knew about 3 weeks ago. On top of that you record it for youtube, which I know can be difficult especially if things aren't going the way you planned.
New junk parts (lifters) now as you said all that time effort and another round of new parts/gaskets to do it all again. Shan on whoever made those lifters. 100% agree with you Dan, no crown on them lifters, they destroyed the cam.
The handle from your dealt or mastercraft grinder is a prefect cam install tool. Screws right in and makes install a breeze.
Keep the faith Dan and I hope things go better this time 'round 🙂
One good thing the DD tow truck is working great !
Thank you for the video 😎
Hi Dan. When looking into a lifter bore hole, the cam lobe should be offset to one side. That is what makes the lifter spin. Nice wrecker.
Yes correct.
+1 for this
I’ve reused many cams & lifters in old builds I did years ago. Never had an issue!
Lifter quality ain't what it used to be
Sadly even the cheap parts were made to some degree of quality back then. I slammed a lifter into a FE ford after it chucked a pushrod and it’s still running to this day. This was 8 years ago and a no name off the shelf parts store lifter! Whatever happened from then to now with quality control is a real shame.
@@noorthdakootaland5261 Chinesium happened
It's an issue with motor oil today that is causing flat tappet cam problems...
99% of off-the-shelf motor oils no longer contain Zinc, which is a high pressure lubricant that IS responsible for protecting the lifters and cam lobes. With the Zinc missing out of the oil, a cam WILL go flat very quickly.
All cars made today have roller cams in them, and don't need the Zinc anymore to protect the cam.
The EPA found out some years ago that the Zinc in the oil WILL coat the inside of a catalytic converter and render it ineffective, once a car got older and started to consume some oil, so they REALLY lowered the permissible amount of Zinc in motor oils to basically nothing.
For ANY car with a flat tappet cam in the engine, you'll HAVE to buy a specialty racing type oil, or get a bottle of ZDDP or Zinc additive and add it to a conventional off the shelf oil. Failure to do this WILL cause cam failure very quickly for a new performance cam with a more aggressive lobe profile and big valve springs. A person COULD get away without the Zinc in an older car with a mild stock cam that has been already broken in, and weak valve springs. For a new performance cam, forget it...Without the Zinc, it will NEVER stand a chance of surviving, ans the result will be what you saw in this video.
@@davelowets I haven't tested this yet in a new build, but the 540ratblog tests and ranks oil for wear protection. He discusses cam and lifter problems etc. He rates so called break-in oils poorly, and "debunks" the "old wives tale" regarding zinc.
"I tested the zinc additives “ZDDPlus” which added a whopping 1848 ppm zinc when added at the recommended quantity, and “Edelbrock Zinc Additive” which added 573 ppm zinc when added at the recommended quantity. Each zinc additive was tested in two full synthetic oils and one conventional oil. And in EVERYONE of the six test oils, the wear protection capability DROPPED SIGNIFICANTLY."
Your assessment is spot on Dan
Poorly ground and likely not case hard and for that you would need to test but your identification of lack of convex cam face is telling.
Comp Cams should be disgusted.
You have a consumer affairs in Canada and you should seek to recover the cost of replacement parts and at least some restitution for a few hours of labour and the cost of the assembly lube and oil costs as compensation.
If Comp cams don't back up their product - they should be held to account.
Never use them again - companies that don't back their product are not worth dealing with IMO
Thanks for having the patience to keep recording through all the misery! Good luck with fixing it all up again.
Hot ridding is the best years of your life haha 60 years old still loveing it
I had the same problem with my 390FE. My Cam look just like yours. It was a melling Cam with perfect circle lifters. I replaced it with Lunati Cam and lift your kit, no more problems. Since it had been a brand new motor with only 14 miles on it when the cam went flat, I pulled it apart cleaned everything thoroughly and put new bearings and oil pump in it
Love the DD tow truck and how useful it is....
It wasn't a waste of time or money. You provide a great service. Now we know to at least be sure to check for a crown when inspecting new lifters. You got a bad batch of them, but hopefully you figured it out and were able to warn us. Good luck!
Great work Dan ----- looking at one item at a time - will roar to life again.
I'm sure they weren't bad... The crown was probably gone because it was worn off from an incorrect break-in process, or from using current off-the-shelf motor oil.
Pretty much ANY conventional motor oil that you find on the shelf today, even at Auto Zone, Advanced Auto, Gas station, Wal-Mart, or wherever, will NOT work with a flat tappet cam today. There's NOT enough Zinc in today's oils to protect a flat tappet cam, and the results of using it will look exactly lile what happened in this video.
For any engine with a flat tappet cam (ESPECIALLY for breaking in a new cam and lifters) you HAVE to buy a specific racing type oil (NOT some "racing oil" off the shelf at O'Reilly's or whatever) that has plenty of Zinc in it, OR you'll have to buy a ZDDP or Zinc additive to add to off the shelf oils today, or you WILL wipe the cam in short order.
@@davelowets No, they were defective lifters. Simple as that.
Nice job Pulling the motor Dan Priceless
Melling has been a name to trust. I sure hope the new lifters don't change that! Lucas is excellent products. Nothing wrong with their lube. I personally like to crank the engine with the starter while the intake is still off to make sure the lifts are turning when the spring pressure is applied.
Either them or crane even crow cams
That is genius. I will use this advice. I had the same thing happen to me last year as happened to Dan.
Not genius...
You don't EVER want to needlessly crank an engine over with an unbroken-in flat tappet cam in it. You want to CAREFULLY set the engine up so that it fires to life the instant you hit the starter when you have a new cam in it, and then IMMEDIATELY proceed with the break-in process. Even just needlessly cranking an engine, with a new flat tappet cam it, can be harmful to the camshaft before it's broken in. You want that engine to snap to life instantly, and immediately being it up to 2200-2400 RPMs to start the break-in. ANY amount of cranking or idling before the break-in is complete IS harmful for a flat tappet camshaft, and you may compromise a successful break-in, and end up with flat lobes very quickly down the road. If you're concerned about your lifters rotating, leave the valve covers off, mark the top portion of your pushrods with a Sharpie, and watch for those to rotate instead, indicating that the lifter is rotating ALSO.
You 🎉 are absolutely right 🎉 as I have been telling everyone for at least 15 years the metal we have today in our world is junk . I know because I use to scrap 😢😢😢
There has been a lot of cams went down in the last 3 years. Not just Comp,Summit tech’s have had a record number of all cam and lifters have been bad. It suck’s redoing it. Comp done me a custom cut cam to fix my motor and it’s right now. And I got to go. Bigger and God does it ever beat the ground. My customers say they hear me coming 5 miles away. I love it. Sorry you had to redo it.
You are spot on Dan-rubbish machine work is the cause of this failure.
Dan, Be sure to cut the oil filter open Look for flakes of brass or copper
Dan, on flat tappet cams I always use cam assembly grease and not liquid lube. The liquid lube is ok on roller cams, but doesn't cling to the lobes and lifter bases of flat tappet cams. I mentioned this last time as well.
Insanity is defined as repeating the same thing expecting different results.
You can use the liquid lube if you plan on firing it up to do the break-in right away that day.
If it's going to be sitting for more than a day before it gets fired up and broken in, then use the grease that will still be there later.
I refuse to waste my time with flat tappet cams anymore today. There's really NO reason to fuck about with them when roller cam technology has come so far now. The advantages of a roller over a flat tappet are MANY, and totally worth the extra dollars involved with them. Even for a mild street application, I will use a hydraulic roller, and avoid a flat tappet at all costs.
Sorry you got bit by the bad lifter bug, at least you caught it early enough. A little literary expressiveness is expected in these situations. As I install my lifters I like to check them face to face to check the concave. Also i pull the valve covers after cam break-in and start the engine to readjust my rockers (if the pushrods are spinning then the lifters should be too).
Always mark your lifters in the bores, turn the cam, make sure they rotate, switch positions as needed.
Hey Dan and Danielle 👋, what a good use of the tow rig. That has to be no fun doing it twice. At least it didn't get the bearings. Thanks for sharing and have a great weekend 👋
Big block Chevy is know to eat cams very easily, I think your doing the right thing by sending it and carrying on! Love! Got to say though, this is a reason why I only build sbc. Love the channel, keep it going!
Not only do I subscribe and like, I also sit through the ads, I learn a lot from you, I hope it pays you back in a small way. Great channel, Thanks
I agree with you Dan,soon as you started describing what happened I thought sounds like poor machineing/defective lifter especially since it's not all of them. Great content,real world issues
Great job Dan, hard to argue with the evidence you lay out. I have several good used BB Mopar cams from the 70s and 80s, the plan was always to use them in builds with new lifters and just give 'em a good break-in like we did a dozen times over the years 'cuz "Hey, they look perfect and ran strong for "X" thousand miles BITD, so we're golden". I wont be just blindly throwing some random set of new lifters in with them. About a thousand guys like me owe you and Dani a burger
Uncle Tony brought me here! Another great channel !
Well let's just hope everything goes smoothly after this little dilemma. Keep up the great work and I will keep on watching
Several years ago when I was in tech school to be a mechanic, my teacher actually had a small collection of brand new lifters that he had checked that were machined wrong out of the box and never ran. He trusted NOTHING when he got new parts. First engine I built he made me check every lifter to make sure there was a proper bevel on them with a straight edge. He also swore by melling lifters.
Best thing I was taught....after the new cam and lifters are in, mark each lifter with a sharpie, then turn the cam gear by hand and watch to see that each lifter is spinning in its bore. Good luck Dan
You've got that wrong..
You will NOT see the lifter rotate by turning the cam by hand.
What you do is put the motor all together, but leave the valve covers off.
You mark the upper portion of the PUSHRODS with a Sharpie, start the engine, and then watch for THOSE to rotate instead...
@@davelowets I'll politely disagree. It does work, I've done it. Guy that showed me is a well respected 9 second car machinist. I have also heard of your method and agree it is another helpful test to aid in diagnosis. Thanks
@@57guitar1 Doing it by hand will NOT guarantee you that they will ALSO rotate when they are under pressure from the valve springs. That is not the way to properly check it.
@@davelowets one of the things I don't like about the internet. Everything sounds like the end all be all. I think that my test is a good thing to check during assembly, your test would be a next step. The main point is to share experiences and help each other.
@@57guitar1 I didn't mean it to try and be a dick. Sorry if you took it that way. I've never seen lifters not rotate by themselves in the block by spinning the cam manually, but I have seen them not rotate when the spring pressure is on them. I simply wait til it's all together and check it then. Myself, I don't even mess around with a flat tappet cam in any of my own stuff anymore, only if a customer wants one, will I install one. With the technology available today, and the ease of custom ground roller cams, there's just too many upsides to a roller to not use one.
Keep that snow in Canada. Nice to see a post with you working.
Oh man, sigh, I'm sorry man, what a major pain, thank God for your tow truck, I am sorry though for all this hassle, smh,
At least put a magnetic drain plug in the oil pan to hopefully get any remaining iron powder out. Change the oil soon after the new cam break-in. Keep up the good work.
He's putting a used cam in. No need for brake in
@@johnpassmore8176 sorta kinda if it's new lifters.
At least don't let it sit and idle for 15 mins.
Thanks Dan and Dani for the update. Looking forward for more assembly fun.
Keep your head up man, you're still shinning...
My cousin had problems with comp cams so he switched to lunati. No more problems👍
Three things to remember,. . . . 1 prime by hand, 2 prime by hand, 3 prime by hand,. . . . drill motor and distributor shaft or the proper adapter then prime to flush out the carb cleaner, you know this, just don't get sidetracked. . .
Good work. It's a good reminder too to check all parts, even new ones, especially these days where quality control isn't always what it should be. Good job on being persistent and seeing it through instead of tossing it in storage for the winter, which I would have understood doing. This is also a good test run of the tow truck showing you all of the different ways it can be used!
The side of another lifter makes a perfect straight edge for checking lifter crown.
Thanks for the videos, I look forward to every one. One more thing I do for each cam change is I leave the Intake off the engine until I have everything that I can assembled, then I pour the assembly lube on cam and lifters right through the open valley, this way I know it hasn't drained off the cam before initial start up. I'll pour it around the lifters hoping the assembly lube will work its way around the lifters and provide protection also at start up. Install the intake, carb, distributor ect, just before start up. Good luck.
It's so good that we all start calling these companies out so we can keep them honest if thy start to lose alot of customers. Keep up the great content both of you 👏 👍 👌 🙌
Can't wait to see the next episode, I hope the cam break in goes well
Hey Dan try a piece of threaded rod instead of looking for a 5/16 bolt next time your installing a cam , you can have a nice long handle for lots of leverage .
Be DAMN careful doing that... A heavy cam CAN bend or snap a cheap threaded rod. I myself would always use a long hardened bolt as a handle.
That sucks that you’re having to do that! But it also makes me wonder how many other budget builders out there that’s gotten junk and same thing happened to them, or worse. Your situation most likely isn’t the first or last, unfortunately.
The thing that sucks is that the new lifters might not be any better. When the Chinese translation for names like Comp Cams means "Good enough for you auto parts", what's left? $400+ for a set of Rhodes or Crower lifters to have something reliable?
It's almost as if we're seeing the bottom up side of Cash for Clunkers when engine parts manufacturers intentionally build catastrophic garbage.
I built a motor last spring of 2021 and used a comp cam and lifter set, broke it in all according to comps recommendations just like Dan, 4 lifters that were doing the same thing and ate the cam, should have checked the lifters for the crown first I guess
@@justinallmacher4996
Uncle Tony had a cam/lifter issue awhile back too.
For my engine, I watched ebay for a while buying NOS 1960's GM lifters a couple at a time until I had a full set for my Olds 394. At least I feel confident they are American quality.
Street Racing Channel just today has a new video where his engine had a lifter come apart. Not good!
@@Freedomquest08 I saw that one as well, I was going to use lunati but I've used comp in the past a couple times and had good success, wish I would have went with lunati now though
I have to investigate mine this weekend. 😬
Coming from UT. Will stay!
I have a big block Ford I went through three camshafts with I thought it was my fault I ran zinc additive. Talk to cam reps from competition cams. Did everything they told me to do. Still failed. Went to lunati Cam and lifters never had a problem since. Motor still running great after 3 years of this debacle. Best of luck Dan.
I'm with you. Word out on the street is alot of these lifters aren't machined correctly on the bottom and some come flat instead of crowned.
If someone hasn't already mentioned it, now would be a good time to install a magnetic drain plug to help pull any residual steel/iron out of the system that may have been missed during your Brakleen bath. Tough luck for you, Dan. I know my next cam and lifter kit will not be of the same brand with which you had this issue.
I don't use competition cams anymore Or I go strictly roller cam. There're a little more pricey but you get better performance. But you're doing what your pocketbook say you could do so keep up the good work.
I hope everything is going well with your engine again. Keep up the great work. Okay.
I don't think you're wrong. Looking forward to the new/used cam in operation. Stay calm! 😁
That brings back a lot of memories. I've pulled a lot of motors with a tow truck.
Hey Dan, You can't be that laid-back. You have to get mad once in awhile.If that was me, I would have been throwing a fit. All the time you put into it for an hour run time. You have the patience of a saint. Sorry you have to go through it again. Love the videos. Take care and be safe.
Dan I worked for Chevrolet through the soft cam era 80's and 90's until 2008. We were doing cams daily and just fired them in under warranty. No special break in lubes or any other bs. Those motors went another 100k plus with no issues cam wise. If you have to jump through hoops to make a cam live more than a couple hundred miles its strictly a quality control issue period.
Loved the way you pulled the motor! You are learning! Sorry about the shitty cam , chock it up to a learning experience.
Welcome to the world of chinesium metal. I have lost track of how many cam/lifter sets I have seen fail similar to what you experienced.
One good thing out all this is one peace of golden goodness in one place when done work of art as always keep rubber on the the road drive on Dan great shows keep up the good work
Hey Dan, first off, I'm sorry you are having to go through this. We all work hard for our money and then to spend it unknowingly on this kind of junk, is just a kick in the nuts! Time is money to most of us too. I stated it in the earlier video, Comp has not been known for having proper taper on their cams...it has been an ongoing issue and apparently, they aren't real interested in fixing their problems with QC. If you want to dig further into the autopsy, for peace of mind, mic the right and left side at the peak of each lobe to measure the taper on the cam (if any). The grey rectangle shaped wear on that one lifter, like you said, is proof that the lifter was not spinning and there was not proper taper on the cam. I am happy to see how Summit did the right thing by you and stood by what they sell. Hopefully, they put some fire under Comp for that. Best wishes on making this right and getting the Biscayne back on the road!
I had to rewind, put in my earbuds and crank that tune, mint
Cheer Up DD about the engine, it happens to the best of us. At least you have an awesome tow lift to help you out with the reassembling and future ease in towing abilities!!!
Dont burn your self out on all the fun. Dont be ascared to take a vacation from it. Your subscribers will always be right here waiting for you when you get back.
better days are coming. I am sorry to see that you had to deal with bad parts and no way to recover for the time and material loss.
Well at least you were able to fix it before it did any worse damage. Keep at Sir! You Da Man Dan!
I'm just a shade tree mechanic. Thanks for the info in the videos
Your doing what needs to be done Dan. Sorry for the bad luck, guess we all have it occasionally. Hopefully you can recoup some of the lost dollars. Still anxious to see you drive the Biscayne down the road.
I clean my cams thoroughly with acetone then spray my cams with approximately two coats of dry-lube. I use the lube paste that comes with the camshaft upon installation. The dry lube is also great prep for storing the camshafts.
I remember as a kid we would rebuild our lifters (tear them apart, clean the sludge out of them and throw them back in in random order). If they weren't domed--we used them. No issues ever! Ahhh, memories!!! 😆
Yep me too. We never had issues like what is happening now. It shouldn't have to be rocket science to change a cam. Ahhh the good old days.
I remember doing that too but it was always with a small block the big block Chevy’s have monster valves and monster springs quite a different animal
Dan you do it right because you do it twice. cheers.
Would love to say I dont feel your pain but unfortunately I've been exactly in your position, push through it and get it fixed itll be worth it! Great job. And off topic anyway to get a story on how you and peg from zip ties became friends. Thanks and have a good one
I have pulled lots of motors with a tow truck. Lifted front wheel drive cars off of motor and sub frames. Pulled tree stumps lol. Your going to love how handy that truck is.
I used peice of electrical wire loop down around the cam to support the rear of the cam when feeding it in, all the best,
Dan the Man love you man keep up the good work
Now I’m going to take mine back apart and check the lifters for a crown.
Thanks for the heads up.
I’ve been there twice one solid and one hydraulic. So glad I went roller haven’t looked back.
good video! thats why i use stock lifters no aftermarket lifters for me!
I think you are totally right and and Danny is an awesome camera woman alright have a nice day 😊
Not a fan of using a used cam but it is your project. You have it out I would put in a new cam and lifters. Otherwise you might be doing it a third time. But the choice is yours. Your videos are always fun to watch. One of my favorite channels.
I hear you if it was me I would put in a new one but what you are saying makes sense. I would probably avoid comp cams and go gm performance. Anyway it will be interesting. I am a fan of the channel.
Make sure cam bearings haven't spun and oil holes are still lined up.
Man, a pat on the back, sweet!!!
I hate to say this because im 110 percent sure you know a hell of alot more then a but didn't they have different main bearings in the early big blocks, the block side bearing had a grove in them and thats how the cam got oiled,,and i apologize if i missed you say that in a vid, i dont think i missed any and also sorry if its been mentioned 1000 times and i didn't see it,,but you rock sir and Danny does too, we need more of her, her laugh can fix a bad mood,,,great great team guys,love ya,please keep it up
Built a few big blocks, and have washed-out the cam bearings, like yours, twice. Same engine back to back. Finally after 2 new cams the Chevy parts Man started asking questions about the build. He deduced the oil pump pressure was suspect, not too little, but too much. We talked about hi volume vs hi pressure performance pumps, and how hi oil pressure/volume pumps during break-in could "Wash the bearings", that is, provide too much OP during startup and run in. He said that Chevrolet had figured out how to properly oil the big block, and
it didn't require large volumes or pressure to run . He suggested break in with a stock pump, and then jump to the HpHv if I felt it necessary. Never did, it's still running today. Hope this helps.
Just a heads up Wesley’s machine shop in wpg rebuilds lifters I was informed today keep up the greatwork
Sorry for your loss, thank you for your service.
Dan I am so sorry iam lost for words I have seen this happen before wat bad luck.
Comp should have next day aired you a roller setup for all your troubles. Sorry you're going through all this mess bud. Maybe...just maybe...the dump might provide a better cam next time.
Reminds me of my scrap yard era of my life but I don’t think I ever pulled a good motor out of one of my good cars with one of my wreckers! But nice work nothing Destroyed!!