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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 พ.ย. 2024
- Following Alabama's ruling that frozen embryos are children, some Christian groups have been left divided.
The decision made by Alabama's Supreme Court last week meant IVF treatment had to be paused and has left some Christian groups torn on the ruling and the role of theology in US lawmaking.
Margaret Boyce is a devout Christian who was days away from her first IVF appointment when the ruling came into place.
Although the ruling did not explicitly ban or restrict IVF treatment it has still created deep uncertainty for clinics and medical workers who handle embryos and fear prosecution.
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#Alabama #BBCNews
Force women who don't want children to have children, prevent women who want children from having one. This is what happens when church and state are not separated and when Judges in Alabama start referencing God in their judgements like the Taliban.
Thank-you!
Perhaps it would do good for you if you spent a few minutes listening to the reasoning behind this. You can try Trent Horn's channel "Council of Trent" which has a 15min video exactly like this. Either you oppose both abortion and IVF or you allow both. There is no consistent logic behind standing in the middle.
In fact, there is no consistent logic in valuing any human life if you support abortion, since there is no objective point where human life begins other than conception.
Debate perverts, can you get off the internet and go into a maternity ward? Maybe if you witness a women in Texas giving birth to a dead foetus into a sink, because the doctors refuse to give her an abortion, you will realise that you need to grow up. @go_teges
Ethics is one thing but policy on a nationwide scale, ripping out medical precedent and setting into motion one of the most damaging events in US medical history. Increased uncertainty, medical premiums, suffering. In the name of? Life? You are destroying people's lives. @@ten_tego_teges
@go_teges Meanwhile; 1day to 22-week-old fetuses incapable of survival outside the womb: "Are we a joke to you?"
Try defining human life, and witness yourself fail spectacularly
I'm going to say the same thing people have been shouting from the rooftops for decades now; It's not about protecting children, it's about controlling women.
Then why only in this one area?
@@apap4950Seemingly because they can get away with it
@@ellog100 And why can they get away with it in this one area?
Right. Alabamans vote for conservative, controlling extremist politics, then complain when it comes back to bite them.
@50 They can get away with it in this one area because they can convince gullible people that a zygote or embryo is equivalent to a human baby.
You can't have it both ways. Abortion usually involves embryos, and if they're children, then so are the vast numbers of embryos that get destroyed in IVF. It's very revealing- if one opposes abortion but not IVF, do they really want to "save the babies," or do they just want to punish people for having sex?
It's not even about sex, it's about rape as well. There were 65,000 pregnancies from rapes from states without abortion.
You can have it both ways a actually
@@apap4950 How so?
@scottcharney1091 Because the intent matters. The goal of ivf is to create life, destroying it is just an unfortunate byproduct. Whereas the sole purpose of an abortion is destruction.
Also agreeing that they are children doesn't neccesarily mean that they should be treated the same in every scenario.
@@apap4950 That seems like special pleading. IVF inherently leads to a huge number of destroyed embryos. If one thinks that embryos are children, then how is it justifiable?
Alabama is 47th out of 50 in nearly every socioeconomic and educational facet
Mentioning god in a judicial ruling is ridiculous and disgusting. We are a secular country, there is a separation between church and state for a reason.
@@MikeJJJemptybladder
Only after 1956 did it say that, because of the insidious radical right religious party.
@@MikeJJJemptybladder that was added in the 1920s as a response to the red scare and anti-communist hysteria
@@MikeJJJemptybladderLaw is not what's written in money
@@MikeJJJemptybladder They changed the motto from E Pluribus Unum, and also changed the Pledge of Allegiance to include "under God". Not cool.
It is atheism that does not belong in judiciary & politics
Irrefutable proof that we, Americans, have lost our minds.
th-cam.com/video/fUspLVStPbk/w-d-xo.htmlsi=swE6nbsFYbUwQArF
Most of you are still pretty good. But the loud ones in the back sure drown out the logical ones.
the loud ones are making me go deaf…. what are we supposed to do…how likely will it be that my pill will be taken from me? today it’s to prevent cancer but tomorrow it may be to avoid abortion. why is this happening……
@@jessicap5513 majorities of people, including moderate conservatives, disagree with the extreme right on those issues but many dare not speak up about it or vote for those people in spite of those policies. As they say “all it takes for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing.” Silence, including in votes, is complicity and I believe it’s time we wake up and do something about it from all walks of life.
Alabama : It is up to Alabama to decide how women have children. It is unacceptable for individual women to have any choice whatsoever.
The same people cry about freedom of speech and the freedom to own guns. What else do you expect from stupid religious people.
Stone age thinking
@@uweballmann6692 classic Alabama then tbf
I wrote a reply criticizing those religious people and their illogical actions and guess what? Bbc deleted it.
@@summerlove7779 Write it again. I'm sure I would probably agree with you.
...the wrath of holy god...?
And I thought, the American judicial system couldn't get more ridiculous. But they always prove me wrong. Yes, they can...
The American judicial system is corrupt beyond belief. In other related news, Houston, Texas Police just dismissed over 260,000 unresolved sexual assault cases, thousands completely uninvestigated. GOP courts love everything that hurts women. Politics has always been crazy, but something in the last 10 years has made it so much stranger.
Alabama Supreme Court: “Frozen embryos are children.”
Alabama Hospitals: “Come collect your children. What do you think we are? Daycare?”
They state will now pay the storage fees for those embryos until the end of time. Because with this ruling, they won't let those embryos just wither away and dry up.
@@paulg6527Aren’t you glad you’re not a taxpayer in Alabama?
They are being paid for that service, so yes
Alabama Sperm and Egg Donors: So...child support? Subsidies? tax deductions?
@i10i60 there is no child to support before the sperm and egg meet
How does this happen? If a Supreme Court judge mentioned scripture in a ruling in Australia, he/she would be thrown out or more likely laughed out of court by the Government. It just would NOT happen.
That's 'Bama for you.
Since the US Supreme Court overturned Roe v Wade in the Dobbs decision, the abortion laws would be left to each state government/courts. Places like New Jersey are protecting abortion while others are setting limits.
I understand that as I have been following for some time, but I will never understand how a Supreme Court judge can get away with quoting the bible in making a legal judgement. Frankly I find it outrageous, and he should be sacked.
@@knight6
Pro-life until it affects you negatively. Typical.
EXACTLY!!
Typical case of "Leopards ate my face"
Sadly too right. Many embryos must be attempted, trialled and terminated for a single viable IVF pregnancy - so although I'm fervently against either ban, I feel there's a really strong argument that if Abortion is illegal, IVF *must be* too. You can't call an embryo a Viable Child in one situation (embryo in a petridish that wont' survive without a mother) and not in another (embryo in a mother who will not survive the pregnancy).
I know these people *don't* understand the process of pregnancy *or* IVF, but you don't gotta understand the leopards to understand the consequences.
I still don't get how a Christian can use IVF in the first place. I thought if you were meant to have a child your God would provide one.
Right, so christian kids born to IVF are not meant to be here.
@@voit782 Anti-abortion people are the only reason I'm here. Using that logic their God wants me to stand in the way of this.
I’ve actually met women who left Christianity bc of this very issue. They did everything right but couldn’t conceive naturally - then everyone turned on them
The problem is that the said Christians want to impose their opinions and way of thinking and way of life on others.
They don't like IVF, contraception, abortion and a few other things, so nobody else is allowed to use these services either.
When we first got IVF, that is how they felt about it. They said it was not for people to play gods and it was a big political issue back then too. But as they watched more healthy families come out of it, all of the sudden their gods and cult leaders changed their minds.
Dedicated cult followers won't do it. Fake ones that are looking for ways to control others, but not themselves, will do it.
To believe a tiny miniscule embryo has the same value of life as a fully developed human being under the law is absurd
The beings used in IVF usually haven't even made it to the embryo stage yet. They're just blastocysts.
Why?
@@apap4950 you tell me why it's not absurd. I guess we're supposed to protect bacteria and cockroaches simply because they're life too? What about the trillions of sperm cells wasted everyday, you care about those lives as well?
@jonathanf2392 this is about human life specifically, just as "reprdpctive rights" does not include the practice of breeding animals. It's absurd to even make that comparison.
@@apap4950 dude, we come from sperm & egg cells, and trillions of them get wasted everyday. And still absurd comparison for a tiny miniscule embryo to be the same as a fully developed human being
That’s is BRAINLESS GOP decision.
Every GOP decision is brainless.
Alabama is a poverty state. I'm amazed this much attention is being paid to on a US Welfare state.
Only because they listened to the Democrats Lies for so many years, until now.
Highest stupidity ever ruled.
For those who bet that Gilead will start in Alabama; you win.
I lose. I was betting Mississippi.
😂@@Lunasent
Are they included in the census taking? Given social
Security numbers? Food stamps? Tax deductible?
Don't we have seperation of state and religion? Yesh.
I can't stand it any longer...No that is not what we are protected from. We are protected from Govt telling us what Church we must attend. A state church.
As a United States citizen, I have to say this is really getting out of control.
If you're going to try and convince us that an embryo a baby then where's my welfare check because I obviously have more than one frozen embryo. Then clearly I have a lot of children and i'm not sure how I can care for them. Food. Clothe. Dress.... children are expensive!
Do you see the ridiculousness of their statement?
The real ? is: Is world gon retarded🤔?
Saving babies is out of control?
@@Make_Australia_British_Again
You obviously don’t know what IVF is.
@@Make_Australia_British_Again Seriously? They are not babies. They don't eat sleep. They don't sleep. They don't cry.
Just for clarification: here is the progression: first embryo, then fetus, and finally, baby.
You don't think the mass slaughter of babies is out of control already?
don't worry about it - frightening words to hear from a politician. I guess Christian groups will make their own rules and exceptions based on their experiences, polls, and family members who are going through or have already used IVF
Absolutely! With them it is always "do as I say not as I do." It's disgusting.
The judge must be a secret member of the Taliban
@@terryhoath1983 The Quran does not ban abortion nor IVF.
@@DarkLink18819 It doesn't mention the butchery and irreparable mutilation of children's genitals either.... but you ask the Taliban what THEY say. The Taliban are apostates as are these nutters in Alabama. Jesus taught nothing on these matters.
@@DarkLink18819 It doesn't mention butchering and irreparably mutilating the genitals of children either but you ask the Taliban what THEY say. The Taliban are heretics as are this bunch in Alabama. Jesus did not teach ANYTHING on these matters.
What they should be asked, to prove that God exists, faith alone is not enough in these times.
Most of these religious people have never even read the Bible, if they did they would probably be atheists. It is no surprise that a lot of non religious people understand Christianity more than people who claim to be Christian, sad...
Ugh, they'll make these rules but not bother in trying to change the culture around it.
It is only about state forced birth.
They say a fertilized egg is a person, but still end up celebrating birthdays, that your age starts when you're born, that you gain citizenship when you're born. Our whole society is built around life beginning when you're born.
Imagine banning abortion for "killing children" but also banning IVF for those who want children.
So, the state will pay in perpetuity for all those embryos that are frozen or until the end of time. Since, of course, Alabama won't let those frozen embryos just wither away and dry up.
i’m so disgusted with my country. i take contraception to prevent cancer for god sakes. what am i supposed to do if the pill is gone forever…….
next they will in prison us for having a period...
I heard this on the radio first and fully thought I must have misheard because who actually just throws a wrench into IVF driving it into a full halt then says don’t worry about it “you can get back to your normal infertility issues soon”
Like. I’m pretty sure they’re already at their infertility issues thanks to this.
First, they came for abortion rights, but I did not speak up because I was not seeking abortion...now they come for me and there is no one left to speak for me
Ridiculous ruling. Wow. This stuff is out of control.
Notice how this politician says that they have to write the law so that it doesn’t offend “this group” or the “other group”. Question: Which group is going to pay you the most money, pal? That’s the one who gets the favorable vote. In politics, it’s always money that talks the loudest.
As a German, it scares me that the judges refer to God. I have long since become accustomed to the fact that religion and justice are separate.
Everyone has a god even an atheist. They just replace it with something else
He mentioned an invisible being and fear of that being in ruling...... About laws .
Eject him now.
The bible should never be used as a justification for a court ruling, it's an affront to the constitution. And abortion is not an affront to God, the Bible is not pro life and neither is their God, in the bible it makes it very clear that a fetus is not equal to a baby, and also in the book of numbers it literally says if your wife if unfaithful and gets pregnant you're supposed to take her to a priest to give her a forced miscarriage.
Welcome to dystopia, folks. Y’all voted yourself right into it
I can’t help but think the Alabama citizens are at fault. Now they don’t like the government telling them how to live their lives?! The answer is not all human life is the same. And you can’t say an embryo is the same as a baby born.
Hope they realize the ethical complexity and nuance and start supporting abortion rights.
If a Christian opposes the destruction of embryos via abortion, then logic demands they must oppose destruction of embryos via IVF. Further, if abortion is to be made illegal for everyone then logically IVF should also be made illegal for everyone. Some Christians oppose abortion but not IVF without recognizing their theological inconsistency.
Popsicle child personhood because a fiction book?
popsicle child XD
😢😢😢😢😢😢
Potential for life is confused with life itself. For being considered as human being, the embryo must undergo succesful birth. Full term baby cannot be compared with an embryo. Eg 18 yo is different than 60 yo.
American Taliban.
I am Catholic and I am pro life. But to say that a doctor or a person who owns the frozen embryos could get a murder charge is radical. First off just because an egg is fertilized doesn’t mean it produces a fetus. You need more than a fertilized embryo to grow life. You need a placenta, uterus and hormones. All of this is inside the woman’s body not in a Petri dish. So me personally I don’t think it would be murder if something happened to the fertilized embryo in said Petri dish to me it’s the same as sperm, or an egg. If it was mine of the any of the three; husbands sperm, egg or fertilized embryo I couldn’t destroy them.
Crazy that they think frozen embryos are children. I am actually taking a class in biology and part of my test was what constitute a living being (human) heart beat. 😊 definitely would have gotten that answer wrong.
doesn’t the heart still beat shortly after death? So a dead person is still alive according to them.
The heart is a function that can still function regardless if the soul leaves the body or not so why is a function of the body determining the lives of other people?
Whose test was that?
Child tax credit for your frozen babies in your fridge?
Any sex after day-1 will be considered a child abuse?
Dig into the politics of this. Forget consistency or not of anti-abortion/IVF... ideologies are adaptable. Conservative xtians/politicians need more adherents to keep their momentum going. So, anti-abortion works for all factions but anti IVF does not for the political class.
Not really related but remember some people want animals to have the same rights as humans. I do not support suffering but I guess it is time to think about that too.
a judge citing the bible?!! hello?
Jesus!
Our Country is a MESS! How embarrassing! We are the laughing stalks of the world!
#Religionispropaganda
If the embryo dosent take is that murder?
religions have nothing to do with it.
You can either have religion or you can have brains. Not both.
One must be taught science and stuff to understand the implications of such decisions. Inbreeding carries a heavy price 😢
Where's the coverage on the us soldier that set himself on fire outside the Israeli embassy in Washington dc?
He was in the Air Force, he died at the hospital this morning, it has been all over the news. Just because they covered something that you didn't want them to doesn't mean they aren't covering that as well.
What are you talking about?
It's all over the place... middle east channels talked about it first, but it's now all over the west channels too.
It took me an entire 3 seconds of googling but I think I've managed to track it down, they sneakily hid it on the front page of their website & in their newspapers.
One article is called:
"Aaron Bushnell: US airman dies after setting himself on fire outside Israeli embassy in Washington"
By Tom Geoghegan, Kayla Epstein, and Mike Wendling
BBC News
26 February 2024
Or this one, I mean how would anyone even know what they were talking about???
"Air Force man sets himself on fire outside Israeli embassy in Washington DC"
25 February 2024
Updated 26 February 2024
they voted for these republican lawmakers. enjoy!
Mommy is always on top 🎉❤
My God wants women to survive. where is respect for my religion?
He declared them life. He didn't say you couldn't do ivf. He said you couldn't destroy it intentionally injure them! It's really not that complicated. What it simply meant was unused embryos can't be discarded like trash much like babies are during abortions.
Thought for the day
Question: If you're a Frozen Embryo but never hatched when Loki returns are you safe from Odin's judgement?
I ask because while I'm not a believer still over the years I've been told by at least some of faith that yes even children are judged by their god and as a result can be subject to HELL! (PS There are those of any-number of faiths who seem to trip over themselves trying to make their god sound like a real PRICK!)
Now I think it's fair as well as logical (Yes I realize logic and faith are far from seeing eye to eye) but still people come on! As I was saying it's logical to argue that a child might be told by the grown ups in their lives and the society they grew up in that they are part of the X,Y, or Z cult but until their brains mature they didn't really make a choice at least yet. Also it might be logical to hope they get exposed to alternatives prior to making a final choice after all Christians might argue that a Islamic child who wasn't informed about Christianity in their small isolated village couldn't make a choice unless they knew there were options to choose from. However their are those who disagree.
Which brings me to Alabama's frozen children and if they're still in the cooler on judgement day what happens to them?
Jimmy Ninetoes
One immediate outcome is that clinics are still storing eggs and sperm,
but not combining them to create an embryo.
The possibility is that one at a time these can be combined and each embryo
dealt with as individuals, rather than destroy unwanted embryos i
n a cynical materialist system.
Tell me you know nothing about IVF without telling me you know nothing about IVF.
That is from reports I have read.@@SpocksCat
Cute phrase you saw somewhere... but that is from a report about the Alabama clinics. I posted this earlier but it disappeared. The destruction of embryos is an ethical issue avoided by everyone involved, but aside from Christians, there are secular philosophers who don't get quoted enough on the status of fertilised eggs: "only persons have moral worth and embryos get whatever moral significance is attributed to them by the actual persons who want them. Given that there is a consensus that before the 14th day from fertilization, human pre-embryos, particularly those that are not destined to develop into children, can be objects of experimentation, and that embryonic stem cells can be utilized for therapeutic reasons, I argue that it is consistent with a moderate version of secular humanism to use pre-14-day embryos as means and not only as ends."
@@smkh2890 It’s a crapshoot whether an egg will fertilize, whether the embryo will develop to day 5, whether that blastocyst will be chromosomally normal, whether the blast will implant and whether the it will actually be carried to term.
They don’t fertilize all eggs for fun. They do it because you might end up with 0 embryos, or all abnormal embryos, or 2 normal embryos but they have a miscarriages. It takes 3 normal embryos to have a good chance of ending up with a baby.
Lmao
America is not a real place. 😮
Stop misleading Christmas for Christians ❤❤❤
The Christian Church says “no” to IVF due to the massive destruction of embryonic life, the assault on the meaning of the conjugal act and the treatment of the child as a product not a gift. She continues to announce a loud “yes” to life, endeavoring to take care of the human embryo, the least of our brothers and sisters (see Matthew 25:40).
Just because you can doesn't mean you should. No one has a right to children.
*The Chief Justice's statement carries weight*
An embryo has DNA, from which you can determine gender, hair color, genetic illness etc, it is a microscopic human being and should have the same right as we, the constitution clearly state all human beings including microscopic are created equal and endued with inestimable right from God, the DNA says it's an human being not a fish or goat, who am to deny him that right, we gave everybody including gays, weed smokers so why should embryos be denied their right, after all if it's good for goose why is it bad for pigeon, because of size.
Point being an embryo cannot live outside of a uterus 🤨. It needs to be implanted into a woman for it to live, without a woman, it's useless. It ONLY has potential to live
The Constitution does not mention the unborn, let alone grant them any rights. In fact, it specifically states that those BORN or naturalized in the US are citizens. A fertilized egg is the start of a life, but that's it. There is no consensus on when it becomes a person guaranteed all the rights and protections of the born and breathing. Not even religions agree on that.
And here we go again. Gods are being dragged into other people's private medical decisions.
@@emmajones8590 An egg or ova is a person's private affair, but an embryo consists of parts from two individuals the father and the mother, and both rights and right of the embyro is involved as a matter of fact, if the mother dies you have to ask whoever donate the sperm unless he's anonymous, and if possible the embryo if he or she wants to live, in which case you can use a surrogate, the woman right over her body stops at the egg, everything is not her body.
@@oladipoajayi3191 This Roman Catholic originating 'life begins at conception' opinion, and that's all it is, an opinion, is getting out of hand.
A fertilized blastocyst in a petri dish or test tube a few hours old, is no more or less 'alive' than the same ovum and sperm cell, a few hours earlier.
But I and millions of others can see just where this is going.
The next discussion will be about the 'immorality' of certain forms of contraception, such as 'Plan B' or the IUD.
All those poor little blastocysts, that never had the chance to brood out and form a child that nobody wants.
Cry me a river.
I feel like the BBC really picks and chooses what they report to help create a narrative.
Regardless of the religion an individual is devoted to, one fundamental part of having belief in said religion; is the notion that God Himself is the best of Planners.
So with this understanding, part of devotion is the belief that God created the human race with His Plan.
Which consists of Blessing individuals with the capacity to possess knowledge, which human creation can sought to for when they require guidance in certain matters.
And such people are described and known as: The People Of Knowledge. Which God mentions in His Scriptures, and Instructs mankind to seek the help of The People Of Knowledge.
And so, when the current circumstances and situation which the Alabaman people are presently facing in this matter which the news is reporting about, there is a solution which God has already instructed mankind to resort to.
And that is of course to seek the guidance, knowledge and answers from the people of knowledge.
Because, when God sent down His Scriptures for mankind to abide by, such matters and situations was not in existence at the time of when the Scriptures were revealed.
God isn’t real, if you want to proselytize your fake religion, keep it in your church, and not on a public forum.
and guess what at the end of the day thats your opinion. religion is not fact.
Once a unique whole human organism - comes into existence. That is a ‘human being regarded as an individual’ - a person.
So we should protect them under the law.
Is it fun just making shit up and presuming it be fact?
Once they can survive outside the womb they are considered a baby-the universe
@@lancetennenbaum250996% of biologists agree life starts at conception, cope
@@MrFancyFingerssays who? Double homicide exists, the EU doesn’t allow any country to perform the death penalty on a pregnant woman
@@Make_Australia_British_Again Says who? That’s the most bullshit statistic I’ve heard in a while.
You can't divide True Christains.
There aren't too many of those around though unfortunately. Particularily not in Republican USA.
It's the fact that your defending this
Tout and cheaters are called as BRITISH in indian sub-continent 😂
Keeping eggs and sperm in a store room is so crazy but not in the West. Its totally normal to make kids in a lab lol
This is the only option for some who cannot conceive conventionally. Maybe research more on the topic before you comment, because you sound ridiculous.
You mean a option for the rich Westerners who have 40k. What about the poor people who can't afford it? @@c.evans1804
What's normal in non-Westernized countries - FGM, adult men marrying teenage girls half their age, legal marital SA and abuse, and persecuting queer people. Thanks, I'll take the "craziness" of advanced reproductive science instead.
Women triggered they can’t put babies in the freezer.
laugh all you want until they take away your condoms
A judge has written in a ruling that an embryo is the image of God ,
So I took the judges' statement and ask AI if this is constitutional.
No, it is not constitutional for a judge to declare that an embryo is the image of God in a ruling as it violates the principle of separation of church and state.
The statement made by the judge in the ruling regarding embryos being the image of God is not constitutional as it violates the principle of separation of church and state.
This is the Judges Statements in the order .
We believe that each human, being from the moment of conception, is made in the image of God, created by Him to reflect His likeness. It is as if the People of Alabama took what was spoken of the prophet Jeremiah, and applied it to every unborn person in the state.”
And the chief justice continues, referring to the embryos:
“Carving out an exception for the people in this case, small as they were, would be unacceptable to the People of this State, who have required us to treat every human being in accordance with the fear of a holy God, who made them in His image.”
Я русский
*тебе нравится Путин?*
@@imtiazdar7787 У него есть как и грехи и заслуги, но по мне больше грехов
WHY are we getting so much USA NEWS - both on Radio and TV ? WHATS GOING ON ? Even programs on Radio 4 nearly always have an American accent featured amongst their guests - ???????