Even when you shoot in fixed WB on camera, if you are outdoors or using naturally available light, the sky may change and therefore the light color. For the back story, I developed this feature while processing a series of pictures of a theater show with changing artificial lighting, and I was just tired to eyeball the pics to get a consistent look when it's just a couple of equations to solve to even the settings over the series.
Bruce, after watching your tutorials, I have - even being a medical doctor - learnt raw photo editing. Really great method to teach newbies and even professionals. I love your tutorials. Congratulations on being selected by radio..
Hey Bruce, thanks for another great, informative video. You explain things so well. I always look forward to your videos. This is a great feature, thanks to the darktable team!
Congratulations, happy to hear you're getting back to radio, cheers! As for this video, yes how cool is that for consistency and also for how well you've presented the new modules options!
Mapping capability is awesome. I hope we are able to apply it a large collection of images in a less tedious repetitive way. Thanks for sharing. Thanks to the darktable team. It’s a phenomenal application to get for free.
Great set of videos here. We're up to version 4 already, gosh. Although I've been using it for a while I've never really used all its potential and learning loads, thanks.
G'day Bruce - another most enjoyable and highly informative video in your super friendly style. Thank you for the effort you put into these. When you selectively pasted the filmic and colour calibration settings (at 3:25) you made sure the paste mode was 'append', but when, later, you selective;y pasted the white balance setting (at 9:26) you changed the paste mode to 'overwrite'. Why is this change of paste mode required? (and, again, thanks for this level of detail - I had never noticed this 'append/overwrite' option before this video!).
Whether you append or overwrite will depend on what is already in the history stack of the destination images. If there are steps there that you wish to keep, you must use append mode. I don't recall now what my reasoning was for using overwrite mode, but clearly I wanted to erase all existing history states in the destination images.
This is potentially a huge time saver and a nice clear explanation. I can see where maybe (?) a future enhancement might be the ability to apply the corrections in Lighttable, en masse. That would imply darktable 'finding' the correct target color in each of recipient images, of course. But to measure / establish the correction for one image in darkroom and then apply it in one fell swoop across multiple images would be phenomenal.
That's going to be very hard because of how the darktable's pipeline is designed, and because you would need some sort of content detection to shift the target accordingly. Unless all your series is shot on tripod with the same framing.
@ Yeah, I guess the difficulty is, although it would know where it needs to be it would have no way to know where it's starting on the other images. It can't look for the same source color(s), since they're shifted by an unknown amount. Oh well...
Great Video! I also like your new approach to directly do the deep dive - that's way more interesting than just going through the release notes. Have you seen Aurelien's video about what he does not like about version 4.0 and his forke if dt? What is your opinion about that?
Thanks Andreas. Yes, I did watch his rant video! :) I agree with a lot of it, certainly as it pertains to confusing new users more than it should, and a lot of UI bloat. But I'm not sure that a fork is necessarily the best way to tackle the problem. Thing is, he writes pretty much all of the colour science code that dt uses, and it's totally his prerogative if he wants to work on that stuff and not have anything to do with the rest of what the team is working on. But I feel it will only split the user base, and not in a good way. I honestly don't know what the best approach is from here. He's within his rights to do what he's done, a I feel dt will be lesser should he decide not to contribute (although he has explicitly stated that he WILL continue to push his code to the master branch, so that's a good thing.
2 ปีที่แล้ว +2
@@audio2u I need to write a full piece on that, but the community **is** part of the problem. Reports in France as in the USA show that pro photographers are split roughly 45/55% between women and men. It's fair to assume amateurs are split the same way. On dt forums, I have only ever seen like 4 of 5 women. TH-cam tells me women are 0.7% of my audience, the best year was 2021 with 1.3%. I would be curious to see what your stats are here. And there is no woman on the dt dev chat. Then, the guys there tend to be mostly 50-something white dudes with an IT/programming/engineering background. TH-cam tells me the 45-65 y-o are 46% of my audience. I have nothing against these persons, but I'm concerned that a community that pretends to be about a shared interest (photography) ends up picking its members in such an homogeneous and restricted social group. The failure to attract a representative subset of current photographers, outside of the Linux geeks, is telling that something is not right with the software. Too few people with humanity and arts background, too few women (even my own wife is reluctantly using dt, procrastinating some shoots for months), and just an handful of professionals. And those 50-something IT guys are the only users that interact with the dev team on Github because Github is… well, a code hosting platform, and intimidating for non-programmers. So that biases even more the direction development takes (if there is even a direction, I mean people submit random pull requests on random topics, they get merged, we deal with the bugs later). I'm more concerned by the failure to diversify the community rather than by spliting whatever there is now.
Aurélien, yeah, similar stats here. 98.7% male. 64% of my audience is 45+ 48% of my audience is 55+ 23% (the largest demographic) is 65+. You mentioned that the community picks old white guys. I don't think that's quite how it works! 😊 I suspect that it's more a case of the software is not as user-friendly as Lightroom (for all the reasons we've already agreed upon), and so that weeds out the females, and the less-than-geeky part of the male population. And what are you left with? The geeks who have the time (that's an important clue here) to tinker around with operating systems like Linux... Guys who are retired, don't have to watch the clock, etc. I will confess (pretty sure I've already mentioned this in prior videos) that when I first looked at darktable in 2016, I found it daunting as well. But I could also intuit that it was an incredibly powerful piece of software, and that if I was prepared to invest the time to learn it, it was going to pay off big time. And that has absolutely been the case. But I'm almost in the same demographic... Old white guys! 😊 Lots more to discuss, but it's 21:30 here and I have a 04:30 start in the morning. Later!
2 ปีที่แล้ว +3
@@audio2u I said "pick" as a metaphor. But if you look at projects like Krita, they have at least 2 women in the core dev team and a lot more in the audience. 20% of programmers in the US and roughly 22% of game-devs are women, and since the 1980's roughly 30-40% of computer science degrees are earned by women. It's quite unique to have less than 2% of them in our geeks. Women are only the poster case here because the numbers are obviously astounding, but there is definitely work to do to open FLOSS imaging soft to an audience representative of those who actually produce images.
Hi Bruce, thanks again. Why you don’t make some videos of flow processing using new features of Darktable? Sincerely, I was a bit if confused about new features when we import new photos. Congrats for the radio. Could I listen on web?
Thanks. I often do processing workflow videos for my patrons. You can listen to ABC Newcastle via the ABC Listen app, but you'll only hear my voice on recorded promos.
Congrats with ABC! A related issue concerninng the Exposure module: I take an image of a gray card producing a B&W jpg and a RAW file with XT-4. I bring these imaigas into Fuji XRAW and histograms for both images agree with pixels clustered at 50%. I bring these images into Darktable and the JPG looks as expected, but the RAW opens up very dark. I need to raise the Exposure 2.115 EV to get the histogram correct. I did this experiment because all my RAW images need EV +2. Is there a setting somewhere I a missing? Thanks Stewart
No, you're not missing anything, other than an understanding of what darktable does with RAW files. Namely, when you IMPORT that RAW and view it in the lighttable, it'll look very much like the in-camera jpeg. But the moment you open that RAW in the darkroom view, the in-camera jpeg preview is discarded, and what you are seeing is the completely unprocessed RAW data. This is done so that you can start developing from a clean slate. Hope this clears things up for you!
@@audio2u OK, Thanks Bruce! I was thinking that the RAW file would be exposed correctly, similar to the JPG: Namely placing all the gray card pixels at 50%. I was stiving for a correctly exposed RAW file. I will do some more experiments. Thanks!
The thing you have to remember is that inside your camera body, there is an image processor. That image processor takes the RAW data and applies a base curve and various other proprietary algorithms in order to generate a jpeg preview for the RAW file. So the in-camera preview is never reflective of the raw data, ever.
Bruce, nice video. However, I was under the impression that WB doesn't affect the raw image (if DT WB is set to a fixed value for all the photos in the series ie. D65). I f that's the case (?), isn't it easier to set the WB for a single raw file, and then copy across via lighttable? Or am I missing something? Thanks.
You certainly could pick a single value, either via the WB module or via the CC module, and then copy and paste that to successive images. I guess this is just another way of achieving the same result.
Yeah, I'll have to do a noobies video soon. Pup is still on a "destroy everything" rampage. I've taken to referring to him as Oppenheimer ("I am become death, destroyer of worlds").
Hi Bruce, thanks for the video! I was wondering what happens if there are multiple images used as reference for the same module in the film strip. I guess darktable simply remembers the last one? Thanks!
@@audio2u Entered comments for the same question. What if I have two series of pictures on the same roll/folder (e.g., 5 of players on the grass, 3 of people watching) so I measure one of each group (no necessarily the first) and want to correct all the rest (with the appropriate one). How does DT know which is the correction to apply? Do I have to group the pictures?
Hi Bruce. Your videos are fantastic, I follow you from Spain and this one has not been very clear to me what the difference is between copying and pasting the parameters of a module or what you have done in this video
how it's possible to have comments 2 days ago with a video online few minutes ago?!?! ..i think to upgrade later, when you will explain the new filmic v6(2022).. thanks for effort to explain us clearly this software!!!
No, I ride for 10 minutes to the train station and catch a train. The bike saves me about 10 mins if I do the whole commute, but then you've got to throw in wear and tear, fuel, concentration... It's just easier to catch the train.
Even when you shoot in fixed WB on camera, if you are outdoors or using naturally available light, the sky may change and therefore the light color. For the back story, I developed this feature while processing a series of pictures of a theater show with changing artificial lighting, and I was just tired to eyeball the pics to get a consistent look when it's just a couple of equations to solve to even the settings over the series.
Yeah, I have noticed that even using WB presets in-camera, sometimes the values are still a little different from shot to shot.
Brilliant, as always. Just tried it out, and it works wonders. Congrats on the radio gig.
Thanks mate!
Bruce, after watching your tutorials, I have - even being a medical doctor - learnt raw photo editing. Really great method to teach newbies and even professionals. I love your tutorials. Congratulations on being selected by radio..
Thanks for the kind words!
So glad I found you, huge thanks!
Cheers!
Hey Bruce, thanks for another great, informative video. You explain things so well. I always look forward to your videos. This is a great feature, thanks to the darktable team!
Cheers Matthew!
Great video! This is what we needed!
Cheers!
Congratulations, happy to hear you're getting back to radio, cheers! As for this video, yes how cool is that for consistency and also for how well you've presented the new modules options!
Cheers!
Good stuff Bruce, good news about ABC too.
Cheers!
well done Bruce, congrats on the radio gig and on these videos as always!
Much appreciated!
Mapping capability is awesome. I hope we are able to apply it a large collection of images in a less tedious repetitive way. Thanks for sharing. Thanks to the darktable team. It’s a phenomenal application to get for free.
It certainly is amazing software for what you pay for it! 😊
Great set of videos here.
We're up to version 4 already, gosh. Although I've been using it for a while I've never really used all its potential and learning loads, thanks.
Thanks!
Happy for your Radio thing! Thanks for the video and I think it is a great idea to have a separat video for every new thing. Can't wait
Thanks!
G'day Bruce - another most enjoyable and highly informative video in your super friendly style. Thank you for the effort you put into these. When you selectively pasted the filmic and colour calibration settings (at 3:25) you made sure the paste mode was 'append', but when, later, you selective;y pasted the white balance setting (at 9:26) you changed the paste mode to 'overwrite'. Why is this change of paste mode required? (and, again, thanks for this level of detail - I had never noticed this 'append/overwrite' option before this video!).
Whether you append or overwrite will depend on what is already in the history stack of the destination images. If there are steps there that you wish to keep, you must use append mode.
I don't recall now what my reasoning was for using overwrite mode, but clearly I wanted to erase all existing history states in the destination images.
With this I got the measure - correction routine in place. Thank you. Hope the commuting is not "driving" you mad ;O)
Glad you got it working. The commute is long, but I'm enjoying the work!
Thanks for this, brilliant as always and very useful!
Cheers!
This is potentially a huge time saver and a nice clear explanation. I can see where maybe (?) a future enhancement might be the ability to apply the corrections in Lighttable, en masse. That would imply darktable 'finding' the correct target color in each of recipient images, of course. But to measure / establish the correction for one image in darkroom and then apply it in one fell swoop across multiple images would be phenomenal.
Yep, that would be the Holy Grail!
That's going to be very hard because of how the darktable's pipeline is designed, and because you would need some sort of content detection to shift the target accordingly. Unless all your series is shot on tripod with the same framing.
Yep, we need more of that AI-goodness... Right, Aurélien? 😜
@ Yeah, I guess the difficulty is, although it would know where it needs to be it would have no way to know where it's starting on the other images. It can't look for the same source color(s), since they're shifted by an unknown amount. Oh well...
Great Video! I also like your new approach to directly do the deep dive - that's way more interesting than just going through the release notes.
Have you seen Aurelien's video about what he does not like about version 4.0 and his forke if dt? What is your opinion about that?
Thanks Andreas.
Yes, I did watch his rant video! :)
I agree with a lot of it, certainly as it pertains to confusing new users more than it should, and a lot of UI bloat.
But I'm not sure that a fork is necessarily the best way to tackle the problem.
Thing is, he writes pretty much all of the colour science code that dt uses, and it's totally his prerogative if he wants to work on that stuff and not have anything to do with the rest of what the team is working on.
But I feel it will only split the user base, and not in a good way.
I honestly don't know what the best approach is from here.
He's within his rights to do what he's done, a I feel dt will be lesser should he decide not to contribute (although he has explicitly stated that he WILL continue to push his code to the master branch, so that's a good thing.
@@audio2u I need to write a full piece on that, but the community **is** part of the problem. Reports in France as in the USA show that pro photographers are split roughly 45/55% between women and men. It's fair to assume amateurs are split the same way. On dt forums, I have only ever seen like 4 of 5 women. TH-cam tells me women are 0.7% of my audience, the best year was 2021 with 1.3%. I would be curious to see what your stats are here. And there is no woman on the dt dev chat.
Then, the guys there tend to be mostly 50-something white dudes with an IT/programming/engineering background. TH-cam tells me the 45-65 y-o are 46% of my audience. I have nothing against these persons, but I'm concerned that a community that pretends to be about a shared interest (photography) ends up picking its members in such an homogeneous and restricted social group.
The failure to attract a representative subset of current photographers, outside of the Linux geeks, is telling that something is not right with the software. Too few people with humanity and arts background, too few women (even my own wife is reluctantly using dt, procrastinating some shoots for months), and just an handful of professionals.
And those 50-something IT guys are the only users that interact with the dev team on Github because Github is… well, a code hosting platform, and intimidating for non-programmers. So that biases even more the direction development takes (if there is even a direction, I mean people submit random pull requests on random topics, they get merged, we deal with the bugs later).
I'm more concerned by the failure to diversify the community rather than by spliting whatever there is now.
Aurélien, yeah, similar stats here.
98.7% male.
64% of my audience is 45+
48% of my audience is 55+
23% (the largest demographic) is 65+.
You mentioned that the community picks old white guys. I don't think that's quite how it works! 😊 I suspect that it's more a case of the software is not as user-friendly as Lightroom (for all the reasons we've already agreed upon), and so that weeds out the females, and the less-than-geeky part of the male population. And what are you left with? The geeks who have the time (that's an important clue here) to tinker around with operating systems like Linux... Guys who are retired, don't have to watch the clock, etc.
I will confess (pretty sure I've already mentioned this in prior videos) that when I first looked at darktable in 2016, I found it daunting as well. But I could also intuit that it was an incredibly powerful piece of software, and that if I was prepared to invest the time to learn it, it was going to pay off big time. And that has absolutely been the case. But I'm almost in the same demographic... Old white guys! 😊
Lots more to discuss, but it's 21:30 here and I have a 04:30 start in the morning. Later!
@@audio2u I said "pick" as a metaphor. But if you look at projects like Krita, they have at least 2 women in the core dev team and a lot more in the audience. 20% of programmers in the US and roughly 22% of game-devs are women, and since the 1980's roughly 30-40% of computer science degrees are earned by women. It's quite unique to have less than 2% of them in our geeks.
Women are only the poster case here because the numbers are obviously astounding, but there is definitely work to do to open FLOSS imaging soft to an audience representative of those who actually produce images.
Hi Bruce, thanks again.
Why you don’t make some videos of flow processing using new features of Darktable?
Sincerely, I was a bit if confused about new features when we import new photos.
Congrats for the radio. Could I listen on web?
Thanks. I often do processing workflow videos for my patrons.
You can listen to ABC Newcastle via the ABC Listen app, but you'll only hear my voice on recorded promos.
what keyboard shortcut do you use to move between pictures at 4:15 while being on darkroom?
Space bar to move forward through your filmstrip. Backspace to move backwards.
@@audio2u thank you!!!
Great video, looking forward to trying it when I've brave enough to upgrade :)
Haha. Cheers!
Congrats with ABC!
A related issue concerninng the Exposure module:
I take an image of a gray card producing a B&W jpg and a RAW file with XT-4.
I bring these imaigas into Fuji XRAW and histograms for both images agree with pixels clustered at 50%. I bring these images into Darktable and the JPG looks as expected, but the RAW opens up very dark. I need to raise the Exposure 2.115 EV to get the histogram correct. I did this experiment because all my RAW images need EV +2. Is there a setting somewhere I a missing? Thanks Stewart
No, you're not missing anything, other than an understanding of what darktable does with RAW files.
Namely, when you IMPORT that RAW and view it in the lighttable, it'll look very much like the in-camera jpeg. But the moment you open that RAW in the darkroom view, the in-camera jpeg preview is discarded, and what you are seeing is the completely unprocessed RAW data. This is done so that you can start developing from a clean slate. Hope this clears things up for you!
@@audio2u OK, Thanks Bruce! I was thinking that the RAW file would be exposed correctly, similar to the JPG: Namely placing all the gray card pixels at 50%. I was stiving for a correctly exposed RAW file.
I will do some more experiments. Thanks!
The thing you have to remember is that inside your camera body, there is an image processor. That image processor takes the RAW data and applies a base curve and various other proprietary algorithms in order to generate a jpeg preview for the RAW file. So the in-camera preview is never reflective of the raw data, ever.
Bruce, nice video. However, I was under the impression that WB doesn't affect the raw image (if DT WB is set to a fixed value for all the photos in the series ie. D65). I f that's the case (?), isn't it easier to set the WB for a single raw file, and then copy across via lighttable? Or am I missing something? Thanks.
You certainly could pick a single value, either via the WB module or via the CC module, and then copy and paste that to successive images.
I guess this is just another way of achieving the same result.
@@audio2u Thanks for the reply.
Can't wait for the noob intro for 4.0 😁
How is the pupp doing?
Yeah, I'll have to do a noobies video soon.
Pup is still on a "destroy everything" rampage. I've taken to referring to him as Oppenheimer ("I am become death, destroyer of worlds").
Hi Bruce, thanks for the video! I was wondering what happens if there are multiple images used as reference for the same module in the film strip. I guess darktable simply remembers the last one?
Thanks!
It remembers when you used "measure" as opposed to "correction".
@@audio2u Entered comments for the same question. What if I have two series of pictures on the same roll/folder (e.g., 5 of players on the grass, 3 of people watching) so I measure one of each group (no necessarily the first) and want to correct all the rest (with the appropriate one). How does DT know which is the correction to apply? Do I have to group the pictures?
My understanding (and I could be wrong!) is that it will simply remember what you last used as a source, until you redefine a source white balance.
This is brilliant! Though it does seem odd to have the "eyedropper" icon to involve selecting a region. Congratulations and good luck with ABC
Cheers!
Hi Bruce. Your videos are fantastic, I follow you from Spain and this one has not been very clear to me what the difference is between copying and pasting the parameters of a module or what you have done in this video
Jump to 6:10 and listen to the following 30 seconds for the answer.
Lends itself to panorama stitching I guess.
What does?
@@audio2u Matching WB and exposure.
Ah! Gotcha!
how it's possible to have comments 2 days ago with a video online few minutes ago?!?! ..i think to upgrade later, when you will explain the new filmic v6(2022).. thanks for effort to explain us clearly this software!!!
The comments are from my patrons, who get to see the videos 4 days prior to them going public.
If you have to commute for over an hour, what better than on your bike in Oz? 😂
No, I ride for 10 minutes to the train station and catch a train. The bike saves me about 10 mins if I do the whole commute, but then you've got to throw in wear and tear, fuel, concentration... It's just easier to catch the train.