The LCS is dying. Here's why that matters.
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 พ.ค. 2024
- A brief history of Esports, and why all the news relating to Dash, Phreak, Pastrytime, LCS Timeslots, and everything else, is a really worrying sign for the world of competitive gaming.
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Chapters:
0:00 - Bad News
7:07 - Esports Fatal Flaw
10:56 - The LCS Fix
14:12 - How Everything Fell Apart
Referenced Videos:
helloitslynne interview - • Travis Gafford: Why Is...
Business of Esports Podcast - • Arnold Hur, Gen.G, Esp...
Travis' Video - • Riot's Communication a... - เกม
Looks like things might be saved. Big announcement coming out of Riot here: th-cam.com/video/6xtRU5gtflo/w-d-xo.html
Spoke a little too soon I think
RIOT hates creating popular and competent casters/personalities because then they actually have to value and negotiate with them instead of underpaying random RIOT employees.
"underpaying"" their department literally has one of the most highest paid job offers out there
@@ramxavier4627 They literally are cuting people in order to not pay more. They resently removed some of their best Valorant casters on the basis of the casters wanting too much. And here we see them cuting casters from LCS and LEC, there are so many ppl that resently lefth casting because of low pay.There is a reason why many casters are free lancers and not riot employes.
@@stefankatsarov5806 "cutting people" theyre cutting people who are contractors they arent even "Rioters" people like dash can move on from greener pastures if they want to, they didnt spend 5-6 years of their life learning how to code or learn a programming language, casters are contractors for a reason their job has no insane requirements to what a dev or an esports manager could have.
@@ramxavier4627 so your argument is that these people who spent 10 years building a rapport and an audience for their work don't deserve the same consideration because they're 'technically' easier to replace? That's a pretty terrible argument. Glad you'd be okay with RIOT firing every player in the league for asking for bigger prizes, because they didn't go to school for 5-6 years to do this either.
@@stefankatsarov5806 this type of shit is what irked me off about the helena taylor situation, she asked for half a mil for a VA job, without even considering what the devs have done for the game, imagine spending 10 years on a game, 4-5 years learning code only to get a quarter of what shes asking for 1 session of 1 day of voice acting, its literally like what happens to bands back then people think the vocalist does everything because theyre in the limelight while the people who play instruments were doing everything and treated like backdrop
What even *is* the LCS without Dash? The casting personalities have as much importance to the show of the e-sport as the actual players themselves. There's a huge reason why people love the LEC, and that's the cameraderie between the casters. Getting rid of the figurehead in Dash at the same time as one of the biggest casting names leaving in Phreak is a big blow. I hope they know what they're doing in whatever restructure they try.
could have stopped after 5 words lel
europeans love the LEC because it has the word europe in the title. they could have 3 rodeo clowns at the desk and europeans would still love it
THEY GOT RID OF DASH?!?! WTF IS THE POINT????
@@soffren that’s not actually true, he is probably still part of the broadcast in a different capacity riot just isn’t communicating anything
@@wessac1627 I'm literally praying you're right and I'm wrong
About the canary. There actually was a device that was used to resuscitate the canary after it had gotten monoxide poisoning. Basically it was an oxygen box with its own tank to protect the bird.
League doesn't have that, a LOT of people are fucking done with Riot
@A$E Good sir, this is a canary.
THANK YOU. It was eating at me that they might be killing a bunch of birds for their job...
@@redrider8710 Wait til you find out what happens to chickens worldwide every minute lmao.
@@Skilledspellzzz this can't hurt me because i can't read
Riot making LCS matches during work/school hours be like: "DO YOU NOT HAVE PHONES!?"
Best wishes for Dash. Dude would immediately level up any broadcast he joins
imagine if korea or china snached him up what sort of hype league would get in those regions with good casting would get in the west
@@luk4s56 Lmao why would they want an English speaker when English is barely spoken in both of those places?
@@Jay9966 for english brodcasts? to get more views. there are many people who are interested in eastern esports but casts are weak to english viewers
@@luk4s56 Lol, if you're interested in eastern leagues, literally just get subtitles, their own markets are already good enough for them.
@@Jay9966 nah eastern brodcasts are hella boring.
Without Dash i can assure you LCS loses its last hope. Phreak might be controversial as a personality, but he still made several historical moments.
LCS truly has killed themselves looking at making it a pretty pathetic copy any other successful sport. If you look at LEC from a broadcast perspective they have invested in talent that isn't players themselves. They look at creating something new rather than pretending to be something else (the NFL or the NBA). They make music, they feel genuine and feel like they can express themselves without having a corporate overlord behind them (with the exception of The Dive which feels pretty decent, just lacking something good to talk about for regional competition).
LCS needs to invest in a broadcast, and let the broadcasters have some creative liberty. And then of course the league itself needs to invest some proper money in local development. There are TONS of americans that could be trained. You don't get an audience from your locals if you don't have ANY locals to connect with. Throwing money at something won't make you successful.
When I first started watching the LCS, I remember being excited that Edward, Helios or more players from other regions be intermingled along all regions. Sucks how it all turned out with no NA players playing for the most part now. And I'm not even from an NA country.
@@efarjeonfgc When i started watching LCS edward etc still played in moscow 5 .. and LCS was actually much more fun to watch then LCS EU.. LCS EU was basicly run by american LCS.. and it was like a worse version. Everyone was following tsm .. curse.. dignitas.. CLG.. CLG had personality.. Dignitas had potential.. Curse had both personality and a website every noob used to get better.. TSM had potential to win.. so many good memories. Now.. all teams are soulless.. almost no personality.. noone seems to be trying very hard.. probably playing wow when they dont have to play league. Every time americans get spoiled.. they become boring.. not just talking about LCS. Adversity is what makes people try.. and that is what makes the best results. LCS just dont have the motivation to try.. cuz they are spoiled and keep spoiling, introduce adversity and high rewards for success. Allow people to get excited about things.. and give them the tools to take action. Almost feels like LCS should just rewind time.. and replicate first 3 seasons
@@collision1988 S2 Worlds was my intro to LoLesports lol
I havent watched in years but what makes Phreak controversial? Just asking
@@efarjeonfgc I sometimes feel that S2 Worlds was the peak of LoL. We've had so many amazing stories over the years, but do any of them compare to Taipei Assassins? I'm not sure.
It's so so so so sad. Lcs used be so poppin and there was so much passion and stories put into the production. 500k viewers to see who would get a bowl cut. ZionSpartan getting a backdoor and twitter just exploding. League paved the way to make esports great and it's just a husk of what it used to be
The stories are just that. Stories. The players suck. The orgs suck and in turn the games suck. The cast and production are just a side dish for the game play. And the game play sucks. Worlds is proof of that.
Yeah well lcs should be a gender defining show instead of league content cuz that's what westerners are good at
@@frankopanklaric It's quite ironic, because you sound like the average lol player
On the contrary, stories are not "just that". They are the legacy of a lot of players and orgs, they have a lot of weight to the grand scheme of the game and competitive lore.
Worlds (finals) were as competitive and nail-bitting as they could be
@@frankopanklaric worlds had great gameplay??
@@Drainfrog45 not from NA
As Dash always says, stay healthy, stay safe, and be good to each other.
I still love hearing "good luck in solo queue" even when I'm not playing League, glad you're still around after all these years Gbay.
Did not hear about any of this. What a back handed slap that is for Dash. That man was single handedly carrying a lot of the broadcast. And them moving the timeslot to the middle of work days, ya I guess now is a great time for me to finally give up on league all together (keeping up with lcs is all I have done in years, I quit league way back at the assassin's rework duskblade patch).
I always loved CS:GO's system. Every match feels important, you get to see international events constantly and see different teams play a ton of other different teams. The circuit is way more exciting and has many more opportunities for large crowds and interesting events. LOL is so boring with Riot having a monopoly over everything. No one gets to try new formats, tier 2 teams have literally no chance to prove themselves, 90% matches dont even mean anything, and there is only 1 meaningful international event each year with very questionable qualifications and formats.
no normal human wants to watch a bunch of d0g water tier 2 imports from other countries playing in NA. LCS was over-paying bums who shouldnt have been making anything near as much as they were. Imagine overpaying for imports only to still lose every international event? I rather watch homegrown talent at the point. But thats why I stopped watch lcs many years ago and it seems like the rest of the fan base is catching up now. On top of that the game is terrible nowadays. Too many years of Riot neglecting the actual game and instead focusing on making new overpowered champions or focused on banning people who say bad words.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but CS:GO is littered with franchising. Certain orgs have ties to specific companies like ESL and Blast that guarantees an invite to certain events. Valve recently took matters into their own hands and banned partnerships starting 2025, but current CS:GO isn't as open as you think it is.
@@CR0WYT wow... esl tournaments sometimes have partner teams... I cant believe this.
I dont even know why youre bringing this up, im talking about having a league that takes up 95% of the games and you need to buy youself into it for a spot and you bring up that ESL and Blast sometimes use partner teams where except for very few exceptions would always qualify or be invited anyway. Cologne, Katowice and the Majors dont use this louvre agreement at all, and all the other ESL tournaments only uses it a little bit. Blast does have very closed off tournaments but teams can still qualify without being franchised and these tournaments are a fraction of the circuit and dont really matter
I would watch LCS more if they (the region) could come close to winning an actual world event, whenever I watch it I feel like I'm cheering on a team in last place and I've been watching since 2016.
I would be fine with NA teams not winning anything with NA teams and players. Right now it's just watching a bunch of overpaid Europeans and Koreans lose on NAs behalf.
Am I the only one who thinks this could a blessing in disguise for the the pro scene in America? I mean we all knew that for the past 5-6 years LCS was the sick man of league of legends. They had inflated salaries and things were said that the pros were taking it for granted. With these new changes, horrible as they may be, atleast the teams and the pros will realize that their jobs are at stake for the first time in like ever. This may actually improve their mentality and competitiveness
I would love this to be true but this seems like a pipe dream or a fairytale, they have had so many years to develop talent in house and build a sustainable league but no one has put in the effort to do this. No one is excited about this any more, there seems to be no magic about this any more. I for one will still be watching, mainly because I'm a fan of the game still and enjoy the format of a professional game / broadcast.
You are wrong. The same thing happened in the past with other NA esport titles. And this games pro scene just died in NA. LoL is just following their scheme.
- You get a new game, orgs go in with promise of easy and big money from easy success, they become initially successful because it is new game that lacks other region investments yet,
- players demand inflated salaries and they get them while avoiding practice,
- there is no serious professional program for young talents, because it requiers from orgs to invest heavily and they just want easy and fast money,
- on top of that domestic population of NA servers lacks desire to improve and just wants easy win with minimal effort,
- other regions turn out to be superior,
- NA loses bad every time,
- people don't want to watch low level play anymore,
- after some time orgs lack money, so they shut down the scene and find another promising game to repeat the scheme.
You are right. But then, how is it riot's fault as to what is happening to LCS? As a company it is trying to cut losses from an already dying region?
ive always wondered how the lcs is sustainable with the worlds highest salaries while having the lowest viewership of all major regions. i thought it must be a bubble that will burst eventually and it turns out that day finally came.
the issue with lcs is, despite its high salaries and resources, the results never came. buying players from other regions has not helped at all. and if anything, it made big personalities that drew viewership retire faster while failing to build up new personalities because very few NA talent was ever promoted to LCS.
NA orgs just never developed the ability to scout a player, to put together a team that makes sense, to have a winning system/infrastructure. maybe cloud 9 can say they have that but thats where the list of NA orgs already end. liquid has had SOME international success, but liquids plan was always simply to outspend everyone.
it could be a blessing in disguise because they cant go down any further. the only way is up but the league and the teams must learn many lessons it failed to learn the past decade.
How are casters and hosts losing their jobs going to make NA play better? The production team has nothing to do at all with the competitive drive of the players.
I forgot where I read it, but I saw a good point where so many companies have dumped so much money into Esports without seeing any good return, and how it would inevitably crash down in a blazing fire
I think that's what we're seeing with the LoL esports in general - and most likely Valorant too
The canary analogy was brilliant lol, I can only see this going negatively
I live in Quebec and have been exclusively watching LEC, I've tried to get into LCS but as a FNC fan it's hard to get my heart into it
I'll still tune in in hopes of a great league, players like Vulcan have brought me some LCS joy recently, hoping for more! Great video
Besides being a League e-sports fan, I love watching competitive Age of Empires 2. I remember once that I was just watching an AOE2 tournament and the organizer and caster (T90) mentioned that Dash had talked to him casually about how he loved the game, and congratulated him on how he ran some events. T90 had no clue who Dash was, because he's never played or watched a game that isn't aoe2, but he said that we went to check who that guy was (he was verified on Twitter) he was shocked to see he was the face of the north american broadcast for one of the biggest games and e-sports in the world. I also remember that Dash joined to cast with him one of the games of the tournament, which was hilarious (because Dash is a super casual player/viewer and had almost no clue of what was going on) and really cool seeing him be the same person he's on stage. Super humble, a ton of fun, and a fantastic personality. It's super sad to see him leave the LCS after all he's done for the LoL e-sports scene as a whole. Wish him the best, he's one of the best hosts I've seen and a great person.
Gbay, ma man! It’s been a solid 7 or so years since I’ve seen a video of yours. Life and work, being an adult and doing that silly shit has distanced me from my old time favourites.
Thank you for your continuous contributions with your dedication to these videos. Props to you, champ.
Also, nice beard you handsome hunk of a human.
Isn’t it weird how everyone acts surprised while the whole community has been clowing on the LCS for the past couple of years nonstop?
wdym by clowing? And surprised about what? The decline in viewership is not surprising. What's surprising is that Riot is instead of investing in talent both on broadcasting (with creative liberty) as well as local player talent, they choose to move the LCS broadcast to tailor to us in the EU.
It's like they are blind to the fact that money doesn't make you popular or win anything. This requires a structure to nurture talent, and hiring of people more creative than yourself. Whether you think the LEC content team is making good content or not is relative, but one thing is certain. It's interesting and overall well received, making you not only connect with the players in the scene, but also the broadcasting team. So far ONLY Dash and Phreak (at least for me) have been personalities that made an impression. I like Azael, but more as a sidekick.
In NA it feels like adhering to Ads and their PR requirements is more important. Spitting in obnoxious ads everywhere and just being extremely corporate.
The majority of people that watch the lcs are now just hate watchers that wanna talk shit but literally give all content views or closeted Na fans funny AF tbh
They deserve clowning. NA is terrible! Wild card region was even more competitive than NA this past worlds.
@@xeevang1023 if that's true then eu is worse Na knocked out a eu team and split games with eu and the games they won they pub stomped eu and in their losses it was close till the end also eu became a meme with the "bot gap" on a wildcards arm as they stomped eu so...
@@xeevang1023 Which wild card region? The 3 regions that did better than LCS this past worlds were LEC (barely), LPL, and LCK. If we go by win % then VCS and PCS were tied with LCS, but they each only had their best team at Worlds in and are pretty top heavy regions, and are not wild card regions by the generally accepted definition of teams who do not get automatically seeded into groups. No Wild card regions even made it to groups this year. LCS failed to beat any LCK or LPL teams this year which is a disappointment, but should be the expected result. LCK and LPL are getting to bring more teams in which lowers the number of games LCS is expected to win, and LCS usually will get a few upset wins as well which didn't happen this year, but saying they were worse than a Wild card region is just hyperbole.
Great video Gbay! As someone who comes from the fighting game scene, I was always impressed with what League of Legends was able to achieve as a spectator esport, it seemed like the golden model for what any esport could hope to accomplish. It really is a shame for the LCS to be struggling so much, I remember back when I was in high school I knew tons of people with C9 merch and people that would argue over whether TSM or C9 was a better team, I hope to see that day once again in the future. Until then, fingers crossed that a miracle happens to usher League back into its golden age
For me, league was the instigator to get into fighting games. I’d gotten tired of playing it and the players around it. The FGC may be niche in views compared to other esports but it can have the strongest community vibes at times it’s beautiful. Can’t find another place like it
It might be hard to understand the start of e-sports prior the LCS for a younger viewer. The big difference was that the game companies themselves did not host any regular competitions with exceptions like blizzcon and valve's dota invitational once a year. It was always third party organizations like ESL and MLG that had all popular titles with pros battling out ladder games and then get invited to a seasonal tournament. And that's it. The stability the LCS brought to have something to tune in every week in a professional broadcast was groundbreaking.
Only korea's starcraft leagues that played on tv were ahead of its time, but nothing lasts forever.
Never can get over the quality of these videos gbay. Good research and background. We'll see where this goes...
Riot is doing a great thing. They are killing the na scene which is horrible.
Players are the laziest but also incredibly whiny. Team owners are all liars who just want to import washed up outside talent.
Its better to stop watching na and concentrate on lck and CN.
You dont understand, sure there is a lot of drama and shit that happened, but if lcs dies it means lck / lpl will die too. Sponsors leaving lck right now already, what you think will happen when one of the big leagues dies, even more sponsors will leave lck.
@@david6025 depends remember that Asia in general is a different environment than what NA and EU has. The scene there is huge.
@@nikovz4719 Remember how huge Starcraft was, Games were shown on TV there before we knew what Esport is in the West and yet that what remains is a fracture from what it once was.
@@nikovz4719 Well the CCP's restrictions on videogaming for youth will definitely kill the LPL...so much for "Asia".
We need some more of those "this thing/person saved our game" videos.
I never have time for full games. It's been just highlights for me for years now, and even then I can barely keep up.
I was always bothered by the fact that NA was slowly replacing all their local talent with imported players. Got called many unsavory things - but I prefer watching people that are from my region. What motivation do local players have to play and get better if they have no shot at the big stage ?
exactly why i stopped following LCS 3-4 years ago. No point in watching washed up imports playing in NA and then still getting smoked at worlds.
Something similar happened with the german cast of LoL.
At some point we had the LEC, LCS and LCK casted by SummonersInn and they had casters and analist desk and at least for LCS and LEC even a host though that mostly mattered for MSI & Worlds.
First they dropped having a host for anything, then reduced their casters for LCK to only 1, then they removed post game analyzis for anything besides MSI and Worlds I believe and now they stopped casting LCK AND LCS too I beieve... Theyo nly do LEC and Prime-League now I believe.
Different things. In order to cast LEC and LCK, your Riot regional (Riot German) need to buy "right for casting", like how traditional sports like football sale their television right. Before this change Vietnam region was able to cast LCK games for free ON their regional channel (own by Garena). After that, LCK games went back to their English channel for about 2yrs, than LCK saw huge views from Vietnam, they started to hire Vietnamese casters to cast on LCK channels.
@@peacepham7838 SummonersInn is not part of riot. They decided for themself that the audience is too low to cast these leagues
We can only hope they realize how bad they've messed up and start to try and fix it. I am and always will be an esport/league fan, and I too do not want to see such a game with insane potential die from a few mistakes. But as you said gbay, there is still hope!
Part of me thinks the trend of layoffs could also be in anticipation of a recession this year, but idk how much such a thing will effect an industry like esports.
Esports is solely funded by ads, and ads are impacted the most
I cannot imagine dash being gone
Great video as always. The lcs is very nostalgic to me but I admit that as much as I used to love it, I have not tuned in in years. I still love the game and hope the lcs gets back on its feet
Thanks for the breakdown and insight as sad as it is Gbay.
I was the marketing lead for NA amateur TO Challengers Uprising back in 2020 when it felt like there could be a path to pro for NA players. To your point, I agree the decisions Riot are making seem like they’re sunsetting the LCS.
It is a dark time for LoL Esports and while I am hopeful for the ecosystem, it’s hard not to be doomer and disappointed right now. I will say this, I hope the community takes it easy on the new casters coming in. They love the game and are true fans of the pro + amateur scene. Looking forward to seeing them do a great job and instill some hope in the esport again. 💪
Another awesome vid, love you gbay99! Getting away from the irelia gameplay vids you really didnt like doing to doing something you seem to love to do (at least it looks like you do :p) is awesome
glad we got to live through the golden age of gaming and esports. The decline will be harsh but i believe in a resurgence however long it takes.
I fear them removing Dash was a horrible mistake on their part. It's not like hosting is the only thing Dash can do. Even if they wanted to swap away from the traditional format and get rid of a host, he could easily have found a good place in the broadcast. I really hope LCS learns from some mistakes and changes things before summer.
I remember dash coming onto scene and becoming a caster. He was awesome at his job and moving up real quick. I grown up from league and watching streams long time ago but it doesn’t mean I want it to die ✌️
Isn't a large part of this LCS broadcast restructuring (The time slot specifically, not the layoffs) to do with VCT Americas taking A: the same Broadcast studio and B: the same broadcast time that LCS was previously taking? Since the VCT leagues would be a lot higher in viewership and therefore revenue for Riot, it makes more sense as a business move for them to switch the two since VCT is expected to have a higher roi. Still sucks to see the way they're treating LCS though :(
I feel like this continues to happen. When electronic music grew in the US, major corporations and advertisers flooded every aspect of it with money. They jump on board for the hype, try to capitalize on it, and then move on. Things went from underground to mainstream and people weren't prepared to handle the influx, or the aftermath.
Esports was never sustainable at these wild peaks (as much as people may want it to), and I feel like everyone knew this. Like, almost every organization is hemorrhaging money that they got through investment capital or sponsors. Very few have shown profit in a year.
Riot's internal problems have mostly gone under the radar for years due to a number of reasons. This current point seems like the culmination of the issues bubbling to the surface. Riot has no identity anymore, all it wants is more money, and they seemingly will do anything and everything possible to do so.
Didn't even know this yet. I honestly think Dash is the best host I have seen across esports. His enthusiasm which is so natural and comfortable will be missed (by me atleast) for sure
I have always appreciated your viewpoints and the way you tell the stories Gbay. Thanks for being cool. I also happen to agree with you here. I've played LoL since 3 days prior to the open beta closing and got pretty excited about the professional LCS when it started. However I'd have to admit that I lost interest over the last 2 years and haven't watched for any appreciable amount of time. I actually play very little at this point. I might have played 20 games all last year. Not sure what would get me back into the sport and watching it though. I don't have a solution but I hope the brain trust comes up with something. It's the only sport I actually really got into watching at all.
I strongly enjoy watching the throwing competition that is LCS. I’m a new viewer, and I hope this year is ok for them. Thankfully The new schedule isn’t to bad for me, my classes are at wild times
I feel like imports is probably the least of our problems at this point. If we actually had a practice environment with consistent queue times, had scrims that weren't bad quality or were better organized, had more than 4-5 even remotely competitive teams, and so on, we would just be better. It isn't a matter of NA talent or not. If the talent was better than their opposition, they would be playing in their place. But they aren't better, so they aren't playing.
I disagree. If I wanted to watch a bunch of top tier Koreans competing I would watch LCK. I would rather watch Americans losing competitions, but having someone to root for, even if they are the underdogs. I feel no connection to any of the LCS teams or players and I don't tune in except for world's.
False, I don't think you remember what happened to the pro koreans the second they reached chally mmr in NA. The onetricks were eating them alive, the fucking junglers were giving pyosik masterclasses. It's not that NA has no talent, it's that NA never wants to take a chance on NEW talent.
@@AE-or7xd Isn't even academy in NA filled with like 3/4 players that once were well knwon and are no longer strong enough to compete in LCS, instead of being filled with new talent that get developed in that league so they cna get promoted to LCS later on?
@@LucRio448 Tbf there is still a decent amount of new talent in Academy, with a bunch getting promoted this split. TSM academy is horrendous though so it tips the scale
@@AE-or7xd I think comparing solo queue one tricks to pro players is disingenuous. You can't plug and play any one trick to a pro stage and expect them to 1. Perform under pressure. 2. Adapt to a whole different play style. 3. Learn new champions, because no one trick is surviving a ban phase. 4. Adapt to a different lifestyle, and so on. There's many factors to becoming a pro and actually deserving a spot over someone else rather than just what their solo queue rank or performances are like.
I'm from Asia and I watch lcs because it was how I found out about league esports. I have watched the lcs since 2015 and will continue to watch as this doesn't really change the time I watch at.
8:56 BRUUUH, that was Elementz on the left there! Man I remember back then around the first few seasons of LoL, Elementz was one of the first to do Champion tier lists. I used to be so hyped back then for the update of his tier list, when a new patch dropped. Good old times. Anybody else remember him? I think he was a support player back then for some esports team.
I remember Zero talking about being able to finally make a living off playing Smash competitively, back in his heyday… when he went on a 56 tournament win streak.
I always thought that Riot should've invested in the North American amateur scene way more to develop more local talent because I feel like most NA viewers hate to see more and more imports come and take up slots.
There are also multiple scandals revolving around Riot and multiple eSports orgs that will always hang over them.
Not to mention that the game itself hasn't been as fun as it did back in the day, with a mixture of overloaded kits for new champions, horribly overpriced skins/events, and the whole Tencent souring everything as well.
I haven't played League since mid-2021 and I pretty much stopped watching anything that had to do with it around the same time.
I like how CSGO does it, I'd like something like esl pro league where partners and invitees can both be happy
and all the games matters.
13:28 bro that outdated cblol logo brought me tears of nostalgia
Thanks dude
Hey Gbay! First off excellent video really informed me about the LCS situation which at one point i was quite into. But I am curious if this video got demonetized? I know the new guidelines are pretty wack and was curious if this specific video got hit (i think it obviously shouldnt have but i heard some "foul" language)?
The moment when c9 kicked LS is the exact moment when people stop watching and caring about this league. I remember c9 games got 3x views of any other team games first 2 weeks only on LS’s creativity. When he was gone - it was the end for the scene. Boring picks, same errors and builds, same old shit. Why should I care? Even riot doesn’t care anymore
I quit caring long before that once I finally gave up hope that NA was ever gonna do anything significant internationally
I wonder if the Esports layoffs are somehow connected to the FTX ordeal. I have a feeling there were some losses they are trying to keep on the DL that they have to compensate for that now.
[hand rubbing intensifies]
Your video is missing perhaps the biggest elephant in the room.... VALORANT! Riot didn't just take the best slot away from LCS but they're directly giving it to Valorant, Riot wouldn't let the esport next to their headquarters die, but they might just replace it with Valorant... i think LCS dying is not a sign that esports is dying but rather it's moving on, perhaps the MOBA genre is just too dated or most likely just not casual enough for new eyeballs to understand right away without knowing how to play (especially to people who aren't gamers) if you watch a game of football or "soccer" you have an instinctive understanding of what's happening even if you've never seen a game before... if esports ever wants to make it to the levels of regular sports it will almost certainly be an FPS that will get it there, Riot most likely know this & seem to be placing all it's bets on Valorant.
100% it will be an FPS that propels it further, if not then it will be something casual that emulates real sports like FIFA or NBA2K or maybe even a Fighting Game (would be fitting since Riot also just so happens to have a fighting game as one of it's upcoming Projects)
I love watching LCS and I even went to a game to see TL play in person back in 2019 (they lost) but it was a lot of fun. I think this season is going to go crazy and I'm hyped for it. That being said, unless you have a attachment to a specific team, there's no real reason to watch. I hope this year will be better regardless of the shitty decisions Riot has made.
Always solid content Gbay! Fingers crossed it survives and thrives.
it's gonna take a while for me to get used to seeing the LCS without Dash, Phreak and Pastrytime
as someone who grew up watching LCS, saying they shaped who i am today is not an understatement, and i'm sure i'm not the only one
Their influence on the fans and the entire eSports ecosystem cannot be overstated.
wait, whats the original clip of Dryus walking on stage at 4:09? I want to hear the roar of the crowd
Great video, glad to see your still going after the last couple years, your amazing
Gbay, I've watched all of your documentary videos and they deserve a ton more views. Have you thought about doing ''Shorts''? You know a lot more than the average person when it comes to league and a lot of its players. Doing shorts about weird league facts or interesting facts about players etc. could really boost the views on your longer videos. A channel I really got into a few months ago did a video about how his channel started blowing up and it was from shorts bringing in a ton of more viewers to his longer videos.
Im not a huge sports fan, but if you covered cinderal stories etc for players like you do for League, that would be 100% worth the watch.
6:00 another reason imo is nostalgia. im a veteran league player and i left league 3-4 years ago but i still watch LoL videos like yours. to me, the lcs is actually the only championship ik and i remember it beeing the biggest one a few years back. in industry this is called the first mover advantage.
Itd be interesting to see the demographics of the viewership. I live in the east coast and these changes are so great, i always had to abide by the pacific times and those were to late for me. The important games 3&5 broadcasted at 9pm, and was barely able to watch them. Though the days may seem odd, i like new times.
This is more speculation, but the majority of the country lives on the east coast and the lcs is simply trying to target its bigger audience. But only a few are privy to that info, i hope they release it one day
Interesting to see a different side to this change in the LCS. We'll just have to see where this will take us. For now, all we can do is speculate.
Seriously, man. You do this as a hobby since you are a professional documentary producer, right?
You are waaaay too good for just youtube.
He’s been working on tv shows now
I don't understand why people are still saying things like "just TH-cam." In 2023.
@@BigDaddyWes 'just TH-cam' because he's not getting paid handsomely from what he's deserved for his contents
TH-cam pays like shit for documentary channels that takes time to push out videos
@@BigDaddyWes , you make a fair point.
I'm not sure how much Gbay makes as a TH-camr. He has 500 thousand subscribers, but I'm not sure he has patronage or other income from his TH-cam channel. That's why I think his videos are too good for just YT alone.
That's me trying to say he's a pro and deserve such praises.
The big problem for Esports atm is not really Esports themselves, its the world economic recession we are starting to go through. Esports Leagues will just have to wait and hold on for dear life until theres more sponsors willing to spend on esports again.
Thank you for teaching me about the canary in the coal mine. Ive gone through my entire life not knowing what in the world that meant.
As far as LCS is concerned, it’s clear they are restructuring, which is something a lot of tech companies are in the process of doing with this economy.
These are make or break times, so Riot will either figure out how to make this work and soon, or LCS will just die.
Sounds like Riot is cost cutting. My guess is that, like most companies that try to make an MMORPG, they are finding out just how expensive they are and how long they take.
The reason I feel it’s unfair to do it now is because we are just now on the up and up.
We were just starting to get into the groove of storylines. Out Na Talent is just now starting to come out. New Rivalries are being forged and it sucks that they are pulling the plug when it was just starting to get good it felt.
But hey to each their own, LCS was the only thing I really watched of league for the most part and that tickled into other streamers. With this I do feel their will start to be a decline in interest of League overall.
They are destroying a huge part of the competitive ecosystem in Na. And that’s a huge reason people even play the game. It’s for the competitiveness and the theory crafting.
I have a sneaky suspicion they are trying to reform the NAEULCS up again. And combine them together and get rid of NA esports entirely. And just hope that Na fans and viewers catch up and inspire to play there… which I hope not. Maybe a few people will do it, but it will start to slowly kill the scene. Their will be no pride left in the NA community and once that is gone :/… ya
Honestly I think Dash is one of the best hosts in general not just for video games, so i'm shocked they would just let him go like that
I'm not sure if you can really see the LCS as the canary in the coal mine ever since venture capital took over. The LCS has never really been able to generate a lot of money, but things got went crazy when people started pumping money into the scene with hopes of it growing exponentially. Teams naturally started spending that money on crazy team headquarters and inflated salaries with requirements of immediate success, and that just kept ballooning until investors suddenly realized that things weren't gonna blow up.
As investments dried up they were suddenly left with all these bills to pay but just not enough money to pay for it. The scene was inflated, and the constant chase for short term success meant that it put a complete halt to everything. Teams would import players instead of developing them, and so when they can't import they're left with a complete lack of talent pipeline and fans who don't have any emotional connection to teams beyond success.
Problem is fractional reserve banking the players’ salaries relied on is a ponzi scheme that overwork the same audience members who pay the salaries in order to profit with interest on loans while being without the money people may rely on after depositing for some time
I think franchising was the real issue. Instead of growing organically, team owners and Riot went for a big cash grab
I'm brazilian and I see people saying the same things here about CBLOL, it makes me think that it happens in other weaker leagues too. Like how teams are showing way less eager to win as compared to old days, cuz of the franchise safety
international failure year after year killed the LCS. meanwhile, even local competition is growing in europe, the LFL and the LVP seems to be growing year after year and the LEC is doing well as always. I doubt that esports are dying, but during 2020-2021 they seemed to grow anormally due to everyone being at home
The LEC hasn't done well internationally in a while. They had their 4th seed not make groups, 2 teams went 1-5, and Rogue only got out because they got the easiest group in recent memory (and still needed a bug to help them advance). The LEC had a negative WR against the LCS at 2021 and 2022 Worlds.
Western teams have no chance of doing well internationally at this point and I think there are more explainable reasons to why the LCS and LEC has had a decline in viewership, mainly the removal of COVID restrictions.
@@andrewfulan796 Winrates dont have to mean anything btw
also, there is one thing that no one wants to discuss. Sponsors. Riot denies the betting sponsors in their game, but in current times betting sponsors are EVERYWHERE. You need to join them or die. Also, people involved in riot games will always deny the arabian sponsors, because of many moral reasons, but it may be the thing that could help sports and probably make them thrive again
@@feliperojas6978 lol do you think they care about moral or those kind of thing? If any of the oil baron willing to sponsor riot will happily spread they leg
@@grayarystorjz6685 actually LEC in 2020 broke the agreement with Neom, which could have been massive for the relations between riot and Arabian companies
Good video. I like the canary in the coal mine analogy. There's no comparable metaphor in my native language.
It seems like we're about to enter an interesting time in LoL esports where Riot can't pretend that everything is going great anymore and has to make changes and come up with solutions. Perhaps we'll come out at the other end with a better eco-system that is more sustainable.
What I still don't understand is why NA hasn't adopted a system like the ERLs (in a smaller scale) that allows for orgs besides the LCS orgs to enter the scene and compete in a serious tournament that isn't solely focused on developing new players.
Especially with all the orgs owned by influencers in EU that are doing quite well, it would seem like a no brainer to do something similar NA where there are many huge influencers who could drive interest towards their org and the league.
While I think Riot could do many things better, especially regarding formats for their tournaments, I think the main problem of LoL esports is that you pretty much have no reason to become a fan of an org. Most orgs only differentiate themselves with their logos and have no identities. So most people only become fans of certain players and not of orgs.
However I think this is very unsustainable. Orgs need to build their own identities, make more content and encourage more fan culture around them to create a sustainable ecosystem and become profitable.
Traditional sports clubs don't really have this problem because they have all the regional fans from their city or region where they are located and they had decades to build lively fan cultures, which are really what differentiates traditional sports clubs the most. The fans make the clubs. Because when you look at it objectively, most traditional sports clubs don't have that much of an identity either. Most of them don't produce content or anything that differentiates them much from other clubs. But they do have tradition/history, location and fan culture.
Esports orgs have none of these inherently so they need to look at what else they can do:
- While most orgs aren't based in a city or region, they can still try to appeal to a regional and more targeted fanbase (which helps attract more passionate fans, because when you try to appeal to everyone, you appeal to noone). I think a good way of implementing this in esports is targeting people from your country. KCorp in France does this well for an example. I think they appeal more to French fans than other French orgs like Vitality for example. And this is partly why their fans are so passionate. Another interesting example is Eintracht Spandau from Germany, who specifically chose Spandau (a district in Berlin) as their location and make this part of their identity and try to appeal to local fans who have started watching their games together in a bar in Spandau for example.
- Create a unique brand identity and content. I think orgs need to invest WAY more into content (not only for brand identity and entertainment, but also as a source of revenue because you can get better sponsorship deals for your content if you make good content) This is what builds their identity the most imo and that's why they need to make unique content. Preferably not the boring standard stuff that every org makes. I think there are very few orgs who do this right. I think orgs also need to have personalities besides their players, that are deeply connected to the org and produce content. The benefit of this is that fans have people they can identify with and follow long-term because players change every split and usually aren't good for content because they aren't entertainers and they have very little time for doing content because they practise so much. When you have someone like Ibai at KOI or Kameto at KCorp, you can attract fans to your club long-term, no matter who your players are.
I'm biased because I'm a fan but I think Eintracht Spandau makes some of the best content out there in esports. They make story-based content around their club with their president and manager for example. They also have their own unique co-stream for all of their matches. This way they also build characters/personalities besides their players that give their org an identity and fuction as personalities that fans can identify with.
- Encourage fan culture. I think orgs need to interact with fans frequently and be transparent. That way fans get closer to the org and become more passionate. While most of this obviously needs to happen online on Discord or Twitch for example, nothing goes over offline events so I think orgs should focus on those more and meet with fans. I think KCorp does this the best, with their huge KCX events for example.
Fnatic was also good at this until they let go of half their team.
What is the song during "The LCS Fix" part of the video
the lcs was always dead sorry i had to say it
Great video Gbay. Who is that baseball player in the picture behind you?
Bartolo Colon hitting his home run up top, Joe Kelly fighting Tyler Austin on bottom.
Haha absolutely great choices. It’s far off from your target audience, but I for one, would absolutely love any baseball content you did, I’m sure you would kill it.
Man I loved LCS. I still remember Hunis Quadra kill and Phreaks voice crack while casting it!
Apparently the pro season started today? I had literally 0 idea? Did they even announce it anywhere
Part of my issue with LCS is that it really is just tooo much content to keep up with. Back in the day I used to make more time for it, but I vaguely feel like I recall that there was a point where they started to intentionally schedule more games into a season and the viewership-per-match tanked as a result. ...I can't recall when it was or how it happened though, that may not be correct. Either way, working 40 hours a week and deciding that I'd rather spend more of my free time playing games than watching them means it's rare for me to tune in at all anymore.
The other part of the reason is that I'm just not invested in any of the teams anymore. This one is much more complicated to explain. Part of it ties all the way back to the LCS being franchised. I used to like the way the league self-regulated with the lowest performing teams having the potential to be replaced with new up&coming rosters who deserved the spot more.
I also wish that NA would pour more resources into cultivating local talent rather than lobbying Riot to allow more foreigners per team. I don't dislike the foriegn players, but the only times I've been truly attached to an NA team was when it was very representative of my home region, rather than representative of my home region's ability to buy other region's most iconic players. I love watching LCK players... .when I tune into LCK games. I understand there are plenty of others who don't care either way, but there's definitely also a large part of the potential audience who are kept at bay by the lack of teams worth getting excited about.
Lastly it does feel like League, and especially LCS, tends to turn over rosters much more rapidly than physical sports. In the rare seasons that I did get really excited for an NA roster, they were almost completely split apart onto all different teams the following year. And because orgs aren't tied to local regions of the US, my attachment is more to players than organizations.
And to top it all off, these new changes which remove iconic casters from the spotlight of LCS is only going to be another move that scares away more viewers than it could possibly be calculated to bring in. Also, wtf, noon weekdays? Riot's just losing their mind with that change.
LCS has been dying for 3 years now, it was finally time to make a decision. Either invest heavily into the league and try to revive it once and for all or start pushing for the future which is Valorant, they chose the latter. Not saying it's right but I see a lot of people saying Riot lost the plot, I don't think they did, League was their first 10 years, Valorant & the MMO are their next 10 years
Yeah I mean I’ve seen post asking what do high school kids play and a lot of them said valorant. League doesn’t have many new players, most are older and have played for years. Lots of fans are delusional when it comes to “you’re just getting older”. No one is flocking to league like back in the day.
Love that you included clips of almost every major esport instead of making it seem like League is the only esport. Didn't see my man rapha tho
just a casual watcher but it seems like we really got ahead of ourselves, which is sad but the truth in my eyes. everything's online and could be minimal cost. there's more I'm just too tired to type lol.
geezus i was so confuse.. kept mentioning esports which he was meant to refer lol
Reasons to watch LCS:
-co streams are great-
-the hosts are entertaining-
-LCS is really competitive due to relegation-
Doublelift and Bjergsen are on the same team
So, just speaking from opinion here. I personally feel that Esports in NA, primarily the US is never going to stay consistant unless its player base (the games communities) actually support it. One of the biggest elephants in the room is the FGC, grass roots ran by players for players. The LCS was a good route and a good idea when it came out, the OWL samething the issue personally in my mind was the growth never dipped (in the early years). Viewer base & Player base went up and never down. However, as the player rotations from other regions came about into NA/US it became obvious that the game was going down hill. One of the largest issues with the player bases for all games in the US/NA is honestly the ego's and the thought process behind the player/players. You get 5 people ina game who all think their gods it doesn't matter their ego will burn them. Hence, the Regi & Ocelot situations. Overall, I feel that the gameplay dwindles because of one factor because the players got to where they want and get a paycheck and are burnt out. They've achieved their dream and now their dream has become more of a nightmare. While, seeing and being a fan of the FGC as well it makes me realize that when Project L shows up its scene will be after a few months like multiverse's is now. However, it won't be to the casual player and but will be to the fad player.
The issue with NA is that it is often seen as a "for fun" region, where players tend to have more otp accounts in the highest tier of play and the level of competition is not as high as in other regions. In contrast, Korea's players are known for their intense dedication to the game, with a focus on winning. Consequently, NA is not able to produce players of the highest caliber. And watching "the best" teams of your region getting crushed internationally again and again is just not fun. There used to be a lot of hope for NA initially, as TSM was hyped up by the community. But soon the brutal reality demonstrated that NA teams couldn't compete internationally.
EU is also lagging behind, but at least they made it to a couple of world finals, and they secured an MSI title in 2019 (funnily enough against TL). That's probably the closest NA may have gotten to be awarded an international title, but they flopped. And I would like to add that this team specifically had 3 imports as well (Impact, Jensen, CoreJJ)...
I live in SIngapore, and even though it does not affect me, I still am frustrated with the timing changes. I've been watching the LCS simply because it was the first that I watched and i instantly was attached to it, and despite my favorite players retiring, I still support them simply because I want to. RIot's decisions and approach to the LCS this year just feels insulting for people that have stuck to the LCS.
media rights, salary bubble, lack of market (each league has just one big tier that everybody watches instead of multiple lower tiers) and the biggest problem is that each company owns their respective games as traditional sports have a central body that regulates them (see NHL, FIFA/UEFA, NBA).
if Riot could step down from regulation of different leagues and create a organization that works as a traditional sport I guess I wouldn't be so hard to make it work
I don't think most people watching the league are paying enough attention to what's going on in the wider economy. All of the signs coming from companies in the wider economy are bad, bad, bad. CEO's prognosticating a bad year and layoffs abound. This being the case, of course it's going to trickle down to a league which depends on funding through merch and commercials.
The reason this is happening now and didn't happen a year or two ago is because of the perilous state of the economy. All of these problems existed for a while. What has kept it from becoming a flashpoint is the wider economy.
Correct. Companies investing in eSports is an afterthought or gimmick for them. It's something they can do in addition to their other better ROI advertising efforts. A silly pay per click campaign will bring way better returns than having your CEO on stage handing out a ring at worlds.
right? and their ftx deal like lol
when dyrus walked on stage @4:10 the crowd blew the fuck up, the recording from the audience microphone doesn't do it justice. no one could hear the announcers, just pure noise of everyone screaming.
I'm from EU. It's never been a problem for me or my friends to watch tournaments during not-so-practical time schedules, but I just don't see the good in all this. Granted, I'm not a diehard player/fan, but the last months have just shown how little Riot actually cares. Quitting league seems better and better by the day.
2 of my favorite pastry and dash. He made it bearable in between games. I was slowly not caring for the game itself but the people in it. Now that they changed the schedule of games why bother even trying to watch. I bet if I go to travis who tends to not go hard on LCS will just say to me I'm not the target audience.
Awesome video. Haven’t watched in about 6 years but your content is great, I’ve got some catching up to do
I really resonate with the statements on streaming and lack of talent. It's so much more fun to watch a streamer with personality then it is to watch LCS. If LCS brought those two things into the mix again maybe it could recover. But as it stands it doesnt look like there's a plan to do so.
I hope LEC negotiates with Dash. No idea in what capacity but he would be a welcome addition. Fantastic guy, really sad to see him go.
Dash & Sjokz being Co Hosts might be too powerful for this World
LEC is also a canary in the cage, the changes they are making could also be made in the LCS if they bring about a good change.
A lot of teams lack identity - or their identity is tied to a star player. I’d like to see NA try and localise teams and tie them to a particular area
What clip is that of Dyrus ?
I feel you real didn't even talk about the elephant in the room which is in NA Valorant is using the LCS studio to broadcast games on the weekend. A big part of this is RIOT wanting to push Valorant in NA because it pretty popular there.
I'm with everyone here. Dash is one of my favorite casters ever. He is a big reason I kept coming back after 2014, as I didn't care much about LCS in anything post-2015.
I didn’t know you liked baseball G man, are you a brewers fan? Also thanks for another upload :)
The main issue I see with esports is that games aren’t everlasting, anyone can see a football match from the 2000 and they would understand but if I played league in 2010 and left I can’t go back to see the game since, I won’t get even half of what is going on in the screen so I won’t care and change the channel the other thing is that most gamers switch their games most of the time so an esport is something that will always have an expiration date
related and un-related:
imagine a video game competition between teams/countries similar to the Olympics,
competing in multiple different types of games
Might have happened already, the problem is that unlike real sports that usually have simple rules and are easy to watch and follow most games are impossible to understand if you're not playing it and the gameplay is hard to convey properly to a spectator.
Maybe you've never watched a snowboard halfpipe competition but you'll easily understand that the guy who spins more and goes higher off the walls is the best one and you'll still be able to appreciate the athleticism required for the tricks.
Try watching a Dota 2 game, even if you're an experienced LoL player you'll understand jack shit and vice versa, the rules are just too complex for casual viewing and that's true for pretty much every game.