Which is more impressive: Arsenal's or Leverkusen's invincible season? | ESPN FC Extra Time
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 มิ.ย. 2024
- Jan Aage Fjortoft, Shaka Hislop and Don Hutchison answer your questions on ESPN FC Extra Time.
0:00 Starting off with a % for Don
2:05 A sign of the times for Bundesliga?
2:51 Did you ever want a season to just end?
4:30 Arsenal's invincible season or Leverkusen's invincible season?
7:49 Don catches a firefly
8:18 % chance Leicester or Ipswich Town stay in Premier League
8:52 The crew's favorite storylines of the Premier League season
11:20 Can Bayer Leverkusen win next season's Champions League?
12:06 What can make Newcastle a contender next season?
12:32 Don on being Shaka's teammate
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I’ll give Arsenal credit for the league exclusively but what makes Leverkusen more impressive overall is that they are unbeaten in all competitions
How arsenal had stars lots so leverkusen I'll give it arsenal had so much champions on there team
@@EliasRoy
I don’t think English is his first language. I think he’s trying to say that Arsenal had a lot of more high profile players than Leverkeusen, and yet Leverkeusen managed to achieve what they did. So he’ll give it to Leverkeusen.
@@user-sz2ut4od6s yes just like that
@@EliasRoy I'm saying leverkusen achievement much better than arsenal
@@nicobailey3264 Ok.
Leverkusen's, and by a country mile!! 28 wins? Overcoming the Munich juggernaut? European final! German Cup final too! All with a manager in his first season. So far unbeaten in ALL competitions, it's just incredible.
They are gonna bottle Europa final😂😂
@@Bigduck42069 and it would still be a better season.
@@Bigduck42069Arsenal fan?? 😂
@@Bigduck42069 Shut up Assnal fan. You have no European heritage
How on earth do u compare german league with EPL
how is this even a question? they have 90 points in 34 games and are in the europa league final
This is not even debatable, Leverkusen has been incredible the whole season
Arsenal played in the prime Prem and one of the hardest champions leagues seasons of all time
@@MadPaperMario And lost
😂😂😂@@MadPaperMario
@@MadPaperMario Where they lost to a rotten corpse wearing Lederhosen
@@MadPaperMario and lost 6 times in the season. Thats not an invincible season
How is this even a debate 😭😭😭 one is doing it all comps, the other one relied on draws
26 < 12?!!! And check the meaning of unbeaten you loser!!!
One played in 38 matches n was playing in UCL, the other played 34 matches n Europa
@@benjamindadzie9657 so you are saying Leverkusen had less games than Arsenal and more wins in the league and Leverkusen got to Europa final and German final while Arsenal got knocked out quarters of CL and semis of FA cup. There is no debate lol especially if they finish it out with a treble
@@benjamindadzie9657 even if they played 38 and drew the rest, theyd still have less draws than the arsenal season, calm down
@@benjamindadzie9657Stats across the season in all comps before the 2 Leverkusen finals!
Arsenal Invincible vs Leverkusen Invincible:
Wins: 37 vs 42
Draws: 15 vs 9
Losses: 6 vs 0
Now I don't like this "who did it better" debate as a whole, but one has 6 losses before getting to a meaningful stage and has more draws and less wins. Again, I don't like the debate, but this is a clear pick.
There's no comparison. Do what Leverkusen did at the Bundesliga would be the equivalent of winning a unbeaten treble with Tottenham!!!
Funny last I checked there were 2 Bundesliga teams in the semifinals of the Champions league.
How many EPL teams reached semifinals of the Europa League or Champions league?
Arsenal 2nd in EPL lost to Bayern who finished 3rd in Germany, who had also beat Man United 2 times in the group stages.
Dortmund is in the finals and had also beat Newcastle 2 times in the group stages.
Bayer beat West Ham in quarterfinalsof Europa league
You need to realign your perspective to realign to reality.
Juventus 2011-12 is more impressive than arsenals’s. Leverkusen’s is much more impressive and this is Xabi Alonso’s first full season in management. . Arsenal drew about 1/3 of their league matches and didn’t even make a final of any other competition. Leverkusen completing an invincible treble would be the greatest achievement in footballing history.
Juve fan myself: Juve drew more games than Arsenal, actually. And had fewer games to play overall (no European football, no League Cup competition though they did reach the Italian Cup final). What made the record incredible was that this was a team that had finished 7th two seasons in a row, whereas Arsenal were 1st or 2nd every year in England.
@@pritapp788 Arsenal was a top team. Even against Man U (their biggest rival), on paper, they were expected to win.
@@pritapp788 I am also a Juve fan and agree with your points. Not to belittle Arsenal, but there are so many other significant 'invincible' seasons that rarely get mentioned due to the way the media constantly hypes and obsesses over the premier league. For example, Ajax won both the Dutch Eredivisie AND the Champions League unbeaten in the 1994-95 season. This is a far more impressive achievement than Arsenal's unbeaten season. Ajax were amazing in 94/95 but I never hear these 'pundits' discuss it. Steaua București won the European cup in 1986 and had THREE invincible seasons in a row between 1986 and 1989. Leverkusen's season deserves all the praise it gets because of winning a Bayern dominated league unbeaten, and being unbeaten in all cup competitions, both domestic and European. I hope they win the Europa League final. It will be something incredible.
Usually, Bayern's first chance to win a cup in the new season was the super cup but since they're 3rd, they can't compete for it. Kane's trophy wait will continue. 😮
And England aint winning the EUROs
@@EliasRoyWell I think that the problem for harry kane is m8 is that he has played for average teams at club level anyway 🤔 I mean spurs have always been average and thats being kind and bayern munich have been declining for years now however harry kane has scored 36 goals for them this season and they have managed to finish third somehow which is embarrasing by thier standards just imagine where they would be if you took them goals away from bayern munich this season its crazy 🤣as for international level thats more on the manager
there imo again kane is unlucky there I aint saying england would certainly win with another manager but with the current one I am certain it will not happen southgate is just awful 🤣
@@EliasRoy it's england what do you expect? they're hotspur version of the national team! haha
Had Bayern finished 2nd, then Kaiserslautern would win the Cup 😂
@@EliasRoy They will definitely bottle up, unless Gareth Southgate has to leave.
Arsenal got 90 points in 38 games, Leverkusen did it in only 34 games.
Arsenal left the CL and FA Cup early,
Leverkusen are in EL & DFB Cup finals.
Arsenal had established stars & budget.
Leverkusen had new players and coach.
To me, the question is easily answered.
Arsenal lost in the FA Cup semi final lmao... quarters in the CL
@@cavy369 Worth noting that they were actually knocked out by fellow PL sides in both competitions (Chelsea in the UCL).
@@ezraezra2928 correct, and both those teams were very good.
@@cavy369 Yeah, especially for Chelsea. Even though some people claimed that Claudio Ranieri's dismissal was too harsh because of broken relationships between him and club management (it was the first season under Roman Abramovich), this club still finished 2nd in the league and also had a deep run in the Champions League semifinal. It also marked the beginning of the glorious period for the club, at which they somehow eclipsed Arsenal's achievements in Europe by winning 2 Champions League titles and 2 Europa League titles, while Arsenal did nothing.
Dan Thomas needs a reality check.
If it is so easy to go unbeaten in the Bundesliga.. perhaps Bayern should have done it over their period of Domination.... Leverkusen has to be more impressive..
Premier league was NOT higher level in the early 2000 compared to Germany.
Not even a debate, Leverkusen.
Leverkusen have won more games in their invincible season, Arsenal got demolished in Europe in that season
Leverkusen played in EL though...big difference
Demolished in Europe? Never knew making it to the Champions League final against a prime Barcelona and losing 2-1 equals being demolished but okay
@@haidonhargraves7660 nonono. Arsenal were undefeated in 2003-04. They reached the final in 2005-06. Do not make false claims
@@haidonhargraves7660 They lost in the round of 16 to Bayern. And had 4 draws in the group stage.
@@haidonhargraves7660Prime Barca????😂😂 03/04 wasn't prime Barça 😂😂
Leverkusen because they took out the powerhouse Munich with ease
They aren't a powerhouse now.
@@ThatGuy-tx4vm Yeah, a non powerhouse who defeated the mighty ARSENAL
@@EliasRoy enough of this. The mighty arsenal are still to win a big trophy in decades. And bayern is a team capable of having the odd good game. The players are there. The coach and strategy is terrible though... THEY FINISHED 3RD!!!!
@@ThatGuy-tx4vm Dream on prem fanboy. English clubs were an embarrassment this season
@@EliasRoy and? One bad season changes nothing. That is not how it works. Stop praising inferior leagues. Being ignorant is not something to be proud of.
Leverkusen's MUCH MORE impressive not even up for a debate
agree, don't forget that arsenal was essentially a top team with henry, bergkamp, viera, cole, campbell. People expect them to win the league (and they should've won more if not for Man United that had even more star players). No one expected Leverkusen to win the league.
@@gold9994 Levekusen is in a 1 horse race league that is held back by the German FA.
Don catching that dragonfly midshow is pretty baller lol
With this technology and VAR all days Leverkusen over Arsenal invincible.
When Jan and Don are on together you know it’s gonna be class 😂
Leverkusen by far
Thing is, if you predicted any team to be the first in Germany to go unbeaten, you would say Bayern and understandably so. The fact that Leverkusen have done it in their first ever league title success is insane
People citing Arsenal's squad of champions....but in this day and age of 'big money' clubs, doesnt that make leverkusen's "moneyball" achievement even more impressive?
Yes it does. Arsenal in 2004 still had a star studded team. Leverkusen’s way more impressive
Arsenal's back 4 back then cost £0 btw
Exactly. Arsenal spent some not negligible sums on the likes of Pires, Henry, Campbell... Leverkusen had so such budget to work with.
@@pritapp788 Campbell? Who signed on a free?
Arsenal always had way to many draws and did lose in cup competitions 2 games left true but likely a truly invincible season less draws and more competition at the time it was united Chelsea emerging but still gott be leverkusen they were not supposed to be fighting for a title arsenal was expected to win
I’m an arsenal fan but I’d say Leverkusen, however we should keep in mind that Leverkusen have been in the Europa while 03/04 arsenal lost in the champions league, so that’s a somewhat significant difference
They not only lost in championships league the also lost in FA and League cup. If you give arsenal a free pass on the CL loss, u can‘t tell me that going unbeaten in the Europa league is as impressive as getting knocked out by Middlesborough in the cup
@@Fschalke1 Arsenal never took the League Cup seriously... also it's unfair to bring it up coz Germany don't have an extra cup competition. Arsenal made it to the FA Cup semi finals losing to Man Utd.
we should also keep in mind that arsenal was a superstar team that was expected to win the league while leverkusen isn't even top3 in germany usually.
People need to shut up with English bias. Clearly Leverkusen, who are "completely" unbeaten in league and in "all" cups ..... and did so in the modern era against technically better footballers in Germany and Europe, are superior in every single way.
Leverkusen's is much impressive because they're unbeaten in all competitions.
Leverkusen are definitely doing more with less. The Invincibles team was full of absolute legends. That said, there's no doubt that the Premier is and has been far stronger top to bottom and Arsenal had to contend with a pretty legendary United side..
Leverkusen by light years.
as arsenal fan, its leverkusen.. but hey, to have invincible in a club history, no matter which leagues, is itself, an amazing feat...
Would love to see a compilation of all these guys as players in their prime, best and worst/bloopers..
6:03 I said it and Jan confirm it ❤
One of the best extra time I’ve watched in a while, too much jokes 🤣
I'd pick Leverkusen invincible as more impressive and mainly for one reason. Arsenal was a PL juggernaut when they achieved theirs, whereas Leverkusen was in a relegation battle just the season before and had never won or even challenged for the Bundesliga title before. If I had to add another reason, they won a lot more games and are unbeaten un Europe as well, not just domestically.
They had a terrible start in the League, but ended up 6th. So "relegation battle" is a bit too dramatic
The season Bayer were beaten by Real Madrid in the Champions League final, 2002 I think, they were challenging for the Bundesliga! I think they lost it on the last day of the season! Apart from that, you're right, I don't think they have had a serious challenge for the league! They are by far the team of the season!!
@@michaelward5370 You’re correct. Ironically, Bayern Munich finished 3rd that year as well
@@platnumj , yeah, I thought Bayern had a bad season that year too!!
@@nuwandalton Ended up 6th after changing coaches. Because they ended 6th doesn’t mean they weren’t fighting relegation in the first half of the season. But I take ur point
Leverkusen's invincible season is way more impressive than Arsenal since Arsenal have way too many draws in their invincible season like AC Milan in 91/92 and Juventus in 11/12 seasons Leverkusen are doing it in all competitions which makes it unique 51 games unbeaten in all competitions it's a new record in European football
A club may not even win the league, albeit having an unbeaten season. Perugia in 1979 was a big example. They had 11 wins and 19 draws in Serie A campaign, but only came 2nd.
If Leverkusen win Europa and German up, then yes they've had a better unbeaten season than Arsenal.
Arsenal didn't win the champions league or FA Cup
Eh it’s a tie with most favouring Leverkusen. But if Leverkusen wins an undefeated treble. No DEBATE.
Love how the PL fans pretend to believe that 2004 PL was soooooo much better than today's BL.
Leverkusen by far. Shout-out to Grimaldo 💪🏼
Leverkusen without any debate. They got to 49 in a season cos they’re unbeaten everywhere. We got to that in a season in a half.
Also it’s Bayer Leverkusen. We were considered the only title challengers with Man United at the time. Nobody expected Leverkusen to even win the league, let alone stay invincible.
Bayer Leverkusen simply clear if they win uel then it gonna be best achievement ever in history of football they were in relegation zone and now they are about to win everything without any defeat
Arsenal have lost in there "invincible" season. It makes zero sense to call it that. Leverkusen haven't lost yet, but they have two more games to play.
7:05 considering the chat around rodri is that he hasnt lost a game despite the champions league penalty shootout then don is correct for once
Why do people always have to compare. Just enjoy them both, you muppets.!
Nah f*ck arsenal. That team was a team of divers
At its best. No football knowledge good bantering ❤
Leverkusen by far with all due respect to Arsenal
Definitely Leverkusen. Arsenal was invincible only in the league, Leverkusen was invincible across all competitions.
Leverkusen, what a season, 🎉
After 120 minutes the match is officially a draw. Penalties exist to determine who advance in the tournament.
Two completely differnet leagues in two completely different countries over two decades apart. Futile comparison.
Both are incredible! Different times and eras not realistic to compare.
They did it in VAR era
Don Hutchinson, a man of 53 years, thinks that that was a dragonfly.
Why is no one talking about Juve? Not a fan but give them some respect. Which undefeated run is better? Which club has the higher winning percentage? And you also have to look at what Leverkusen have done outside the league. Undefeated in the Europa League and in the Pokal. Just amazing.
more wins more entertaining football.
It's quite simple. Bayer Leverkusen were much better than Arsenal when it comes to the Invincibles season.
In 03/04, Arsenal barely qualified for the UCL KOs after losing twice in a group, including a 0-3 loss at the Highbury to Inter Milan (but still won convincingly 5-1 at San Siro). They, however, lost 2-3 on aggregate to Chelsea in the UCL QF. They also got knocked out in the semifinals of both League Cup and FA Cup by Middlesbrough and Manchester United; both being the eventual champions of respective competitions.
This Leverkusen side will probably win the Invincible Treble, as they were in Europa League and DFB Pokal Finals.
Interesting question🤔🤔🤔 leverkusen can certainly lay claim but then again the calibre the quality of both leagues shud be a part of the consideration shud it not? Just asking
2000's EPL was hardly better than today's Bundesliga
more impressive is capello's Milan when seria a was toughest league on planet
The invisible are not close
That arsenal team was playing in a way way more competitive league at that time. Hats of the Leverkusen though .
When sombody do it with average players its big achievemen t. If they beat real (if win) in supercup then i will salute them
Come on West ham
Leverkusen by a lot
let's hope not, 100% correct don
Jesus. Give us a couple of days to appreciate what they’ve done before we start debating who’s was better
Maybe I‘m biased since I am German but in my opinion Leverkusen‘s accomplishment is much more impressive than Arsenal‘s. Leverkusen is merely one point shy of breaking Bayern‘s single season points record of 91 and only tied six times. Meanwhile Arsenal won two games less than Leverkusen despite having played four more games.
I guess that is the only metric in which Arsenal tops Leverkusen, having to remain unbeaten through 38 rather than 34 weeks.
Plus, financially Arsenal was probably second back then behind Man United, or maybe third behind Chelsea. Leverkusen is the fourth biggest spender in the Bundesliga at best, behind Bayern, Dortmund and Leipzig.
I am indifferent about Leverkusen but to see their fans and former employees of the club like Christoph Daum, Rudi Völler and Rainer Calmund being over the moon after having come up short so many times was nice.
I was at the game in Munich in 2000 when Bayern beat Bremen on the last day of the season to win the title. Leverkusen lost ten miles down the road in Unterhaching and dropped to second place on the last day of the season. On the way home I saw many of their fans and they were heartbroken. I am happy for them that they finally witnessed their club win the league. 😊
Wasn't Arsenal's only in the EPL?
Dan clearly doesn't watch Isle of Man TT
Espn pundits obsessed with Arsenal 😂
Didn't that Arsenal side have over a dozen draws? No disrespect, but Leverkusen had half that amount this season and are still competing for a treble.
They scored 90 points in just 34 games. Which makes their invincible side more better
Lederhosen! They actually won something😊
Arsenal won the PL during the invincible season. What are you trying to say?
Misread. Still Leverkusens though, they'll likely add a trophy or two
Leverkusen, unbeaten all comps, from the brink of relegation to winning title with 5 games remaining.
They had a terrible start, but no one ever believed they'd be relegated
What kinda question is this like neverlusen are way better bc they have less Tues than the bottlers 💀
Not a debate. Clearly Leverkusen's
Thats why ESPN should just not have a soccer panel ..is this a real question?
Why would it be a one-off from Bayern? Last year Dortmund did them a massive favour. This year Leverkusen did not. I don't call it a one-off.
Leverkusen !
May be like Leicester
I’ll judge on Wednesday, if they win the Europa league then they will be better
They’re still better than Arsenal regardless of they win the Europa or not
Wenger said a season or two before he believed they could go unbeaten and they lost a game or two later and he got mocked - they then did it - no1 would have even said it regarding Leverkusen it was so far fetched an idea at start of the season
Silly question
Arsenal had world class players like Thierry Henry in his prime, Bayer Leverkusen have a handful of veteran players past their prime and upcoming youngsters. Not to mention the financial differences. Leverkusen’s run is undisputedly superior.
Leverkusen did it with 4th or 5th best squad in Bundesliga ,Xabi Alonso is much better manager than Wenger ever was
Leverkusen Invincibles. The best invincibles. Those who say any other, they're either blind folded fans or 'the frog in the well' so called pundits and journalists.
Only 6 draws. Speaks for itself.
Leverkusen, most obviously. Arsenal were already a massive team in England in the early 2000s, had won the title in 2002 as well as many FA Cups, were always one of the pre-season favourites. Nobody expected anything such from Leverkusen: they were in the relegation zone when Alonso took the job! Also the % of games won by Leverkusen is higher than Arsenal's (way higher: 82% to 68%) and their squad cost much less than Arsenal's to assemble.
Every pundits is obsessed with arsenal
Leverkusen they had to face Bayern Munich who were more dominant compared to Man United in the 2000s.
Hilarious seeing rivals claim a Levurkusen as if it’s their team that did it 😂😂😂😂😂🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡
Leverkusen definitely... look at the quality of players on both teams... Alonso's job was way harder.
I'll go with Leverkusen for the class of players Xabi Alonso is able to get the best out of and go this far.
Leverkusen for sure, they would probably have won the Champions League
Arsenal had 12 draws....and got knocked out in the round of 16 in CL. They had 4 draws in the group stage against Rosenborg, PSV and Panathinaikos. Greatly overhyped team.
Not even close only one team is unbeaten in all competition 🤷🏿♂️
england is trolling again :D
Xabi Alonso has done so much bigger with a normal squad no big players and it's well above the old times football so harder
Leverkusen are doing it across 3 comps Arsenal were beat that season its just theres a * beside the league
Records are meant to broken! This is why "GOAT" makes not sense.
Congratulations to Leverkusen ( I'm super happy for Granit Xhaka)! Well done.
👏👏👏
Who is more likely to do an 'INFALLIBLE' season (ie winning every single league game)
Xabi Alonso or Mikel Arteta?
Leverkusen might be more impressive but if the two teams played each other, Arsenal’s invincibles would beat them handedly
Sure. The best Arsenal cant even beat the worst Bayern.
If next season UCL arsenal ever match up with leverkusen....I would put all my money on leverkusen to knock out arsenal....
AC milan
Arsenal's wasn't actually an unbeaten run, because they lost games throughout the season. Leverkusen have a real unbeaten run.
Don forget those cruel bozos, we love you.
Levekusen are unbeaten in all competition and less draw and more win in the league
No chance 10 % 🤦🏼♂️