Thank you both so much for taking the time and patience in presenting the details so clearly. I began attending bible studied in the small gathering of folks in Knoxville, TN while attending Maryville College. The end of my Sophomore year, I left college to go to Los Angeles to be a part of the churches John Robert Steven’s was overseeing. I went in hopes I would find an answer to some personal issues I had been dealing with (feel free to contact me personally to learn more about ) there were still rumors about a “witch within”, all of which were mind boggling…. And became a “if you do not believe it, you are not really a Pratt of the church……nuts-o, right? But it kept me attending because I was hoping the apostle could fix me. keep up the good work…. Love to you both😃
Thanks for continuing this work. This "dead weight" (myself) is free of Gary Hargrave's crusty old ministry with TONS of creepy baggage 🕊. Though some of that baggage is probably money bags 😡.
That was riveting, I imagine that is how the witch trials worked at their height in the 1640s (English Civil War era). some guy accuses you and just denies you to speak out, you are found guilty, and hung, over and done problem solved. I found myself unusually terrified listening to this, wondering if someone was going to jump out and strangle Victoria as a witch. So for those of us who have wondered what would have happened if we had just stood up in a service and spoken out here you have it. You would have stood accused as a witch. And for the record, I do not think that Victoria was an actual witch, I don't believe that she claimed to be other than John adding color to his account of her. For some of us, there is a vast difference between Satanism and Witchcraft. Paganism predates Christianity, Satan is a deity of the Abrahamic religions and has no place in the vast majority of pagan practices. It was just a convenient accusation for John to stand there and scream witch as have many men before him, it's a formula that works within Christianity. It's always "The devil made me do it" working through that woman then boom, you are strangled for a witch. Talk about magical thinking. And why do all of these affairs take place in remote "cabins" haven't these people ever heard of a motel it's always a freakin' cabin with these people.
Wow! Just Wow! Well if this is not "spiritual" gaslighting at its finest! This is the first time that I have actually heard this tape recording. I was 16/17 when this happened. The part of the story was edited down to "attacks by a witch" that reached the ears of Washington. But at 16, I was very naive to a dult relationships. I had been in Christian Tabernacle for about 10 years. I was one of the youth that went to CA church camp at that time. I heard whispers and I did not understand. I was not completely stupid blind. I know for a fact that around that time, JRS was hitting my mother. I've written a little about this. He apparently did not realize that my mom had a lot of street smarts - she rejected him. (Probably humiliated him over his advance.) I also saw how M, his secretary flirted with him. That man was never innocent in my opinion. As far as my mom was concerned he did "something to set her up" and she angrily left the church. My dear dad was happy-go-lucky naive farm boy without street smarts - never got it what my mother complained about. JRS got away with a lot of cr@p not becoming of a minister. Hearing this version from his own mouth is disgusting. I want to vomit over how he deceived us all....and what did he do? He recruited innocent youth from Iowa to join CA at church camps. And then the hippies came in - a way to grow his empire and a church camp in Iowa (Dreams and Prayers for future Shiloh.)...a distraction away from his infidelity that concerns the mature members. I am aware that there are hold-outs who are older than I am that were in the middle of this mess. I'm sure they will watch this video and never speak up - just like they always fell for the load of balona. Yes, I am laying on a guilt trip to those failed to protect future members.
I should add that the "spiritual principles" JRS taught us to use in the Bless-ins were "witch-crafty-ish" occult stuff. How hypocritical! Oh, yes, JRS seemed to plagiarize everything.
This is an excellent first video. Can I offer some constructive criticism? 1) Setup up your over the shoulder cams so when you look at each other it looks like you're looking into the camera. 2) Both of you have really sharp esses,.moving the mics 1-2 inches off center from the mouth will help that. 3) Your text is too small put less on the screen at a time 4) sound effects.to match screen stuff. 5) soft background music to cover up room noises
I remember learning about triads in the 70's. I'm actually kind of surprised he used that concept that early. TLW was so fad-ish! For it to still be a thing nearly a decade later?!? Whoa! So triads were based on the scripture about two or more standing in His name. The idea was that with three, you not only had "balance", think geodome over block, but you could essentially blackmail God with his own promise using them. God HAS to listen when there are three. So, we broke into threes and made triangle prayer chains and demanded all kinds of crap every week. I was pretty young then, but it didn't seem any different than magic to me. I believed wholeheartedly in magic. (The Disney kind.) So why not? 🤣 And how much MORE powerful for any triad, if JRS was your third!?! The whole split thing happened before I was born, but I remember these last names floating around our house in whispers even 10 years later. (Edited as I listen) You're SO right! It's theatrical. I have heard the whispers most of my life, but the adults would never tell. (Salyer in the quietest of all.) Hearing it all for the first time, as it happened, so to speak, it sounds so scripted! The other thing I noticed through this part, is the lingering fear of being influenced without your knowledge. I was forbidden certain friends because they had demons on them, or how bad behavior was excused in some because "something" took them over and made them. (Witches, demons, dark spirit, battle. blah.) What a perfect excuse for any horrid thing you want to do. | I'm shocked again and again that he admits it here. (Okay, for me, his twisted words ARE an admission.) He's saying right here, if you knew it all, you'd say it was wrong. BUT! No buts, Dude. It's a yes or no question. The deflection after that is epic! Wow! He tugs every lever he hates having used on him. Sympathy. Guilt. Loyalty. Faith. People keep bringing up the actual "law" that is supposed to govern the church. They're trying! They know there is a way things like this are supposed to happen BEFORE it goes public. And it didn't get followed. This isn't just the split. This is the day those governing principles were thrown out for good. "Denied." Now Apostles had permanent immunity. Being called before the elders was punishment ever after. It wasn't a place of justice, to carry concerns, be heard, and let justice prevail. It wasn't where things of concern were prayed about, investigated and then brought before the church. It a weapon after this.
Wow! I'm so glad this made an impact. It's very interesting to hear about your experience with Triads in the Living Word in the 70s. The picture you painted sounded so witchy!
I was in the living word church/cult in the 70s, we had girl and boy houses. The men/boys weren't allowed in the girls house. Did anyone else have this set up? We had abuse, both physical and sexual. It was other children, i dont remember sa by adults in my case. One family i stayed with often were very strict, using belts for punishment. They also gave you enemas but that could have just been down to the times, not the church. Just curious if anyone else lived in a girls house?
Thank you both so much for taking the time and patience in presenting the details so clearly. I began attending bible studied in the small gathering of folks in Knoxville, TN while attending Maryville College. The end of my Sophomore year, I left college to go to Los Angeles to be a part of the churches John Robert Steven’s was overseeing. I went in hopes I would find an answer to some personal issues I had been dealing with (feel free to contact me personally to learn more about ) there were still rumors about a “witch within”, all of
which were mind boggling…. And became a “if you do not believe it, you are not really a Pratt of the church……nuts-o, right? But it kept me attending because I was hoping the apostle could fix me. keep up the good work…. Love to you both😃
I'm a former LWF member. Thank you for this serie. Watching at this moment.
Greetins from Brazil.
Obrigado.
Thanks for continuing this work.
This "dead weight" (myself) is free of Gary Hargrave's crusty old ministry with TONS of creepy baggage 🕊. Though some of that baggage is probably money bags 😡.
So excited for this episode!
Great job again guys. Keep up the good work. C H E E R S
Thank you. Watching from Alaska.
Well that’s not bonkers at all 😳
“You are denied”??
Just like all of the TLW nonsense-sad, stomach turning and sinister.
Crazy Town!
Denied.
Oohhh this is a good one! 👀 Get your 🍿 🍷 and get comfy!
That was riveting, I imagine that is how the witch trials worked at their height in the 1640s (English Civil War era). some guy accuses you and just denies you to speak out, you are found guilty, and hung, over and done problem solved. I found myself unusually terrified listening to this, wondering if someone was going to jump out and strangle Victoria as a witch. So for those of us who have wondered what would have happened if we had just stood up in a service and spoken out here you have it. You would have stood accused as a witch. And for the record, I do not think that Victoria was an actual witch, I don't believe that she claimed to be other than John adding color to his account of her. For some of us, there is a vast difference between Satanism and Witchcraft. Paganism predates Christianity, Satan is a deity of the Abrahamic religions and has no place in the vast majority of pagan practices. It was just a convenient accusation for John to stand there and scream witch as have many men before him, it's a formula that works within Christianity. It's always "The devil made me do it" working through that woman then boom, you are strangled for a witch. Talk about magical thinking. And why do all of these affairs take place in remote "cabins" haven't these people ever heard of a motel it's always a freakin' cabin with these people.
Exactly, don't question the apostle.
I am so sorry for Victoria, this is horrible abuse. What is with her today?
Wow! Just Wow! Well if this is not "spiritual" gaslighting at its finest!
This is the first time that I have actually heard this tape recording. I was 16/17 when this happened. The part of the story was edited down to "attacks by a witch" that reached the ears of Washington. But at 16, I was very naive to a dult relationships. I had been in Christian Tabernacle for about 10 years. I was one of the youth that went to CA church camp at that time. I heard whispers and I did not understand.
I was not completely stupid blind. I know for a fact that around that time, JRS was hitting my mother. I've written a little about this. He apparently did not realize that my mom had a lot of street smarts - she rejected him. (Probably humiliated him over his advance.) I also saw how M, his secretary flirted with him. That man was never innocent in my opinion.
As far as my mom was concerned he did "something to set her up" and she angrily left the church. My dear dad was happy-go-lucky naive farm boy without street smarts - never got it what my mother complained about. JRS got away with a lot of cr@p not becoming of a minister.
Hearing this version from his own mouth is disgusting. I want to vomit over how he deceived us all....and what did he do? He recruited innocent youth from Iowa to join CA at church camps. And then the hippies came in - a way to grow his empire and a church camp in Iowa (Dreams and Prayers for future Shiloh.)...a distraction away from his infidelity that concerns the mature members.
I am aware that there are hold-outs who are older than I am that were in the middle of this mess. I'm sure they will watch this video and never speak up - just like they always fell for the load of balona. Yes, I am laying on a guilt trip to those failed to protect future members.
I should add that the "spiritual principles" JRS taught us to use in the Bless-ins were "witch-crafty-ish" occult stuff. How hypocritical! Oh, yes, JRS seemed to plagiarize everything.
More good stuff!
This is an excellent first video. Can I offer some constructive criticism?
1) Setup up your over the shoulder cams so when you look at each other it looks like you're looking into the camera.
2) Both of you have really sharp esses,.moving the mics 1-2 inches off center from the mouth will help that.
3) Your text is too small put less on the screen at a time
4) sound effects.to match screen stuff.
5) soft background music to cover up room noises
I remember learning about triads in the 70's. I'm actually kind of surprised he used that concept that early. TLW was so fad-ish! For it to still be a thing nearly a decade later?!? Whoa!
So triads were based on the scripture about two or more standing in His name. The idea was that with three, you not only had "balance", think geodome over block, but you could essentially blackmail God with his own promise using them. God HAS to listen when there are three. So, we broke into threes and made triangle prayer chains and demanded all kinds of crap every week. I was pretty young then, but it didn't seem any different than magic to me. I believed wholeheartedly in magic. (The Disney kind.) So why not? 🤣
And how much MORE powerful for any triad, if JRS was your third!?! The whole split thing happened before I was born, but I remember these last names floating around our house in whispers even 10 years later.
(Edited as I listen) You're SO right! It's theatrical. I have heard the whispers most of my life, but the adults would never tell. (Salyer in the quietest of all.) Hearing it all for the first time, as it happened, so to speak, it sounds so scripted! The other thing I noticed through this part, is the lingering fear of being influenced without your knowledge. I was forbidden certain friends because they had demons on them, or how bad behavior was excused in some because "something" took them over and made them. (Witches, demons, dark spirit, battle. blah.) What a perfect excuse for any horrid thing you want to do. |
I'm shocked again and again that he admits it here. (Okay, for me, his twisted words ARE an admission.) He's saying right here, if you knew it all, you'd say it was wrong. BUT!
No buts, Dude. It's a yes or no question.
The deflection after that is epic! Wow! He tugs every lever he hates having used on him. Sympathy. Guilt. Loyalty. Faith.
People keep bringing up the actual "law" that is supposed to govern the church. They're trying! They know there is a way things like this are supposed to happen BEFORE it goes public. And it didn't get followed. This isn't just the split. This is the day those governing principles were thrown out for good.
"Denied."
Now Apostles had permanent immunity.
Being called before the elders was punishment ever after. It wasn't a place of justice, to carry concerns, be heard, and let justice prevail. It wasn't where things of concern were prayed about, investigated and then brought before the church.
It a weapon after this.
Wow! I'm so glad this made an impact. It's very interesting to hear about your experience with Triads in the Living Word in the 70s. The picture you painted sounded so witchy!
I was in the living word church/cult in the 70s, we had girl and boy houses. The men/boys weren't allowed in the girls house. Did anyone else have this set up?
We had abuse, both physical and sexual. It was other children, i dont remember sa by adults in my case.
One family i stayed with often were very strict, using belts for punishment. They also gave you enemas but that could have just been down to the times, not the church.
Just curious if anyone else lived in a girls house?
wait a minute, who is fking who in these story, guy is saying that he had affair with "brother´s" wife Naomi or with a "witch" ?
Geeeeezus.
You are talking of times when you weren't alive as if you experienced it. I have talked to those who were around and these accusations are unfounded.