Doobying a cheap LED floodlight with lux/efficiency readings
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 31 มี.ค. 2021
- This video is a continuation of an experiment that happened during a live stream on the BigCliveLive channel:-
/ @bigclivelive
During the stream I hooked capacitors in series with a cheap sealed 10W LED floodlight that is almost certainly baking its LEDs. This reduces intensity, but multiplies its lifespan significantly.
This time I used a light meter to get an indication of how the intensity changed with current, and got a rough approximation of "lux per watt" at a height of 300mm (12") from the front of the light. This was not an ideal testing scenario and is just for comparison on intensity.
One of the most notable things was how the efficiency dropped as the light heated up when running at full power. LEDs are less efficient at higher currents and when they are hot, so modern lights are not only designed to fail fast for profit reasons, but also perform badly as they do so.
Here are the results.
Full power cold 10.7W, 3010 lux, 281 lux per watt.
Full power hot 10.7W, 2800 lux, 261 lux per watt.
1uf, 3.8W, 1460 lux, 384 lux per watt. (Capacitor voltage drop 62V)
470nf, 1.9W, 840 lux, 442 lux per watt.
330nf, 1.5W, 640 lux, 426 lux per watt.
220nf, 1W, 450 lux, 450 lux per watt.
100nf, 0.5W (estimated), 210 lux, 420 lux per watt. (Capacitor voltage drop 90V)
47nf, 0.2W (estimated), 90 lux, 450 lux per watt.
22nf, 0.1W (estimated), 30 lux, 300 lux per watt.
At the lower levels the light's internal leakage shunt resistor would be affecting efficiency.
Even at reduced intensity the light output from a basic 10W light was very good. Useful for ambient or security lighting. At 2W and below it becomes viable to use it as a simple 24/7 light source.
It would have been nice to open this light, but it is glued shut with heat resistant silicone type adhesive. Previous attempts to open this style of construction have resulted in the glass breaking.
Some lights like this may contain an active buck regulator and will possibly strobe at lower power. But most seem to use the cheap linear regulators.
If you enjoy these videos you can help support the channel with a dollar for coffee, cookies and random gadgets for disassembly at:-
www.bigclive.com/coffee.htm
This also keeps the channel independent of TH-cam's advertising algorithms allowing it to be a bit more dangerous and naughty. - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
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I couldn't help but grin as you got within a centimeter of an accidental ElectroBOOM.
Wow, I'm tempted to buy several of those and mod them all to run at lower level. The fact that the 3.8W was half as bright as 10.7W (and the full power was even worse when warmed up) was really eye-opening. I could just buy twice as many and mod them all, get the same amount of light with much longer lifespan.
+1 .. and with multiple lights the coverage will be nicer.
Big Clive has done another vid on exactly this effect )or maybe more than one). th-cam.com/video/klaJqofCsu4/w-d-xo.html is definitely worth watching.
Years ago when I first discovered this channel, BC was demonstrating how reducing the value of the cap. in a dropper circuit for LEDs was a good way of improving reliability / durability. Promptly went out, bought caps to replace the higher value caps in our outdoor floodlights (that were lasting 18 months tops), and we've had zero failures since. Even a modest reduction really helps with durability, with very little effect on light output.
@@phils4634 From the lamp manufacturer's point of view, longevity is not always a good thing -- you want to sell as many as possible. The lamps ideally have to last long enough for people not to think "Huh, I won't be buying those again!" and consciously choose a different brand, but go with the devil they know. Now, the laws of physics are a harsh mistress: if you drive LEDs hard, they may shine twice as bright, but not even for half as long. When that meets up with the laws of economics, it suits lamp manufacturers to buy cheap LEDs, work them hard and claim maximum brightness. Longer-lasting lamps with better quality components and/or more LEDs, each of which has less power going through it, will be more expensive -- but these ones are so much brighter!
over-emphasisingghoulishwith
@@bluerizlagirl It was a case of "if I do this I wonder how much longer they will last", which in our case is a bit important since our ext. floods are a home for red back spiders, which you don't want to meet unexpectedly. Turns out that a very modest reduction in output (almost un-noticeable) has meant lights that failed after 12 - 18 months are now lasting well past 3 1/2 years, which is great news for us (since I used to "re-lamp" the bust ones with AliExpress LED arrays anyhow!)
This gives me the idea that putting a capacitor and a PIR switch in parallel would make a nice "always on" security light .. low level illumination most of the time, but full brightness when the PIR detector is triggered...
You can get some strip lights that do that.
I just added that to my hall light. A fixed resistor across a FET controlled by the PIR.
This is a 12V LED strip for clarity.
They do that for the LED lights on train stations - each unit has a PIR/microwave sensor = low level light when passengers are sitting on bench’s/not moving away from the lights, full brightness when passengers walk under light units and when a train passes/stops
You can buy outdoor motion lights now that come with that feature. (Not saying you _should_ do that instead of implementing it yourself if you want to, but it's an option.)
@@IDoNotLikeHandlesOnYT link pls
One day we'll find it: The rainbow connector...
It just needs that elusive violet position.
The lovers, the dreamers, and me.
@@theSnowpup Thank you. I couldn't remember and it was really bugging me. 😄
Don't you mean the pride connector!? Also, if you had a connector with more positions, you'd probably get that.
Why are there so many songs about wagos and what's on the other side?
There is a man named Big Clive,
who would occasionally stream live.
He lives on the Isle of Man,
of which there is many a fan.
His favourite colour is pink,
except when it comes to the kitchen sink.
There is a man named Big Clive.
Clive searches for something to short cap.
Clive completely misses the wire jumper he just took out of the Wago 😆
😂I was thinking the same thing.
Give Clive a break. It takes a lot of 'radium' to be perfect all the time !
Deffinitely safer to use a screwdriver instead of that short little piece of wire.
It's an engineer's way of doing things: don't use something close by, reach for the most distant and difficult-to-get one!
Honestly, my first instinct would have been to use the ground pin off the plug, maybe not the best idea.
Hi @bigclivedotcom
When I worked for a subcontractor to Philips lighting commissioning lighting control systems, we had to get new light meters specifically to measure LED lighting. Normal (cheap) light meters are designed to measure the output of tri-phosphor fluorescent and tungsten fittings. The really old light meters that work without batteries are tuned for halophosphate. Should you need accurate measurements of LED fittings a reasonably priced option is the ‘Tenmars 201’ at around £80. If you need to measure coloured LEDs the ‘Tenmars 209M’ is about £150. Most of the other LED specific lux meters would leave a dent in your bank balance the size of a small country.
We need to have dooby lamp technology everywhere, it will definitely help the environment
We do in the grow light industry. Check out migro and chilled. I’m working on a design that uses cheapo leds instead of high end ones rn
@@fish9468 If you get stuck with high efficiency long life SMPSU's let me know. I have designed a fair few professionally.
yeah, but then the big companies that make these lights can only sell you them half as often if they make them last twice as long
so naturally, they make them super bright and 'energy efficient', with the downside that you have to buy a new bulb every 2-3 years (or however long they last)
@@Stevo_1998 Dubai lamps are dim and efficient and last forever
@@fish9468 aaaaaaaaaaand you can only get them in Dubai
They only exist cause the leader-human decided to make a law or whatever that required the bulbs to be /actually/ energy efficient and to basically last forever, and the companies that make them don't sell them outside Dubai because they'd lose money on a bulb that basically lasts forever.
That’s very interesting, I imagine you could buy the 30 watt version and adapt it in a similar way but get a similar light output to the 10 watt. It would probably rot off the wall before it failed 😄
Absolutely love these experiments especially with rainbow 🌈 connectors
I would have liked to see this lamp run with a 2.2uF capacitor (and maybe any others between that and the 1uF Clive started with) to see how linear the relationship between capacitance and wattage is. More data is better right? I have a 50W lamp of this type that I'd like to drop to around 20W but the cost of the (at least 400V) capacitor to do that is probably prohibitive.
@@Shaun.Stephens yeah, clive really gave me an idea there. really good to know :-D
e.g. using these lights as backlight-illumination for self-made signs.
But the capacitors... they aren't *that* expensive?
eg. Reichelt sells 2u2 X2-class foil capacitor for around 1€ each? larger (and also, cheaper quality ones) are available..
@@Shaun.Stephens if you have 250V caps available remember you can also use them in a row, halfing the capacity
If i remember correctly... for two of the same it comes out for 0.5 the single capacity...
1/CapTotal = (1/470nF) + (1/470nF) = (2/470nF) => inverse (470nF/2) = CapTotal = 235nF
for more theres calculations...)
But you should measure and pair identical capacity ones.
Usually the 30watt varieties have the same number of LEDs so efficiency won't be better if that is true. Its very common they drive the LEDs harder and prey they don't die too quickly
@@wasteoink8376 Well, the end-user prays they don't die too quickly. They, the manufacturers, want it to die ASAP so you buy a new one!
Another great video, Clive. I hope everyone appreciates the lack of commercialism and self promotion in your videos. It is refreshing and caused me to sign up on your Patreon page. I encourage everyone to do the same.
I think we should follow Clive's example by limiting the involvement of money as far as possible.
If too many people join his Patreon he'll end up fucking off to the Bahamas.
@@KarlHamilton Don't think so - I'm mindful that BC prefers a far cooler climate (he seems to think a winter room temp. of 8C is perfectly adequate!)!
@UCGy3Gwiay9vhuStnfKyHSJw He'll fuck off too close to Santa's warehouse and take apart all the toys
What makes his Videos special...no Outro, no goodbye, just some more chit chat and Video has ended...gotta love it. 😁
Of course not to forget the Puns (intended or not sometimes)!
No begging for us to subscribe. We already are!
@@whitcwa Who isnt?! 😅
@@Boosted1981 I'm not even electrically savvy and I've been subscribed for years! It's just too interesting!
@@Corkoth55 same for me 😄
I completely agree. I'm getting increasingly annoyed at intros and outros in youtube videos which have the sole purpose of wasting my time and lining the pockets of the creator.
I like a tear down, but mods are special.
Thanks man!
Very sneaky Clive, switching to the no-flicker Hopi while we were distracted!
I need to get some wago or fake connectors to make my hobby life a bit easier. breaking out the iron every time for small stuff is a bit of a pain and hazard.
As for the lights. I've had my e-bay chinese special porch lights burn out on me (guess which LED type they were) and replaced them with flip-chip COB units of the driverless and drivered types and haven't had a failure since. If they burn out again I may put a capacitor in-line like here, or I'll try that for a new project of a high wattage and under-run them to the desired level. Seems like a sound idea for some types of light for sure.
Those connectors are the most ferocious (complete with trilled "r"s) snap of a connector that I have ever heard.
I thought the same, gave me a little startle the first time he closed one.
It seems his mic loves exaggerating such sounds, his snips got crazy bass response.
I wasn't completely paying attention the first time and thought he shorted something lmao
Let me tell you my, albeit delicate, fingers do NOT like getting stuck beneath when the arms snap down!
It HURTS.
It’s great to see that everyone is included with that connector.
Except the missing purple one at the end.
A non flickery HOPI under the 1uF dropper? Not sure I am ready for this.
Now as we know it we might like it all the time 😛
I really like these hack videos. I finally feel ‘we’ have a small helping hand in retaining a portion of our hard earned money and keeping a product for a little longer than the company selling them would expect. As a bonus, we’re saving a drop of electricity at as a byproduct. Thanks for all you do BigClive😊
I find this video extremely useful. Just saw another by Technology Connections defending the ubiquitous use of the heat pump. The efficient home is now within reach!
2µF or 3µF would be more interesting. Drop the ~11W down to about 7, just enough so that the LEDs aren't overdriven any more, but still put out 90% of their light...
Change the current sense resistors.
More accurate, no need for a capacitor outside of the case.
If there is a capacitor inside the lamp, replace it with a smaller one.
@@CyberlightFG Oddly enough almost all circuits have 2x RSense in parallel, desolder one and it's usually enough to reduce the current down to the LEDs not to be overdriven.
@@stanimir4197What do you think is a more power efficient approach - modifying with a capacitor or destroying/replacing a resistor?
@@nevenpavlovic4448 capacitor is definitely not. The capacitor dropper changes the power factor on its right own, and the energy is actually dropped on the resistors, so there are less losses on the resistor part alone.
I make LED lights for a living. By reducing the current to each LED and therefore the junction temperature of the LEDs when running you can vastly increase the lifetime of the leds and I've been producing LED lights with close to 200lumen per watt efficiency since 2014 and have a independent lab test on a custom light I made for a pharmaceutical company that has a projected lifetime of 511,000hrs. However not all LEDs will increase the same in efficiency if you under drive them, depends on packaging of the die and the original die used. But they'll all increase in lifetime. If you want to buy really cheap LED fixtures do this to make them more reliable.
Great video Clive.
I see a market for an in-line connector containing the gubbins. It'd be great in a light bulb socket extender or a plug-through 13a connector.
These lights have to be terminated into a junction box anyway, so the cap could be tucked in there (at the top to avoid pooled water.)
now who is going to get an estimation on production cost in china ? im in.
@@bigclivedotcom I mean if we’re modifying the circuit, why not put the cap in the fixture. It should be Nema 3R (I don’t know Your equivalent)or better anyways for outdoor use. Better than in a junction box that may or may not be moisture tight.
@@bigclivedotcom Could you fit the cap inside a ceiling rose connector? Couple of Wagos should do it.
What type of capacitor is that, and should there be a chunky resistor in parallel with it?
3:31 I felt like in a Eltecro Boom Video. You barely missed the 246V in your hand when you writing! Please be careful! We need you to make more videos!
A very interesting experiment. Someone should sell an adapter socket with built-in capacitor to increase the life of LED bulbs. I am pretty sure that most of them are designed to fry themselves into LED lamp heaven.
Thanks for the video and taking the time to quantify the lumen efficency.
Here is an idea. Make a light socket that plugs into another light socket with specific series current limiting capacitors. Or, add the ability to switch which capacitors is used. then sell on Ebay and Amazon.
This video is excellent. Incredibly interesting well done Clive.
Idea for next build video, a board with a set of caps and switches to bring them in and out of circuit to quickly and easily do these types of tests?
You just described a capacitor substitution box. They exist commercially but probably not with the needed 400V rated caps. So a DIY high voltage version does make sense.
It would be interesting to see the effect of 2.2, 3.3, and 4.7 µF capacitances too, to know where there's a negligible difference.
Also, note to future EEs: if the meter says 0.000, don't guess what the reading is. Please.
At one point the meter indicated 0.502 watts
Extrapolation isn't guessing though....
yeah thats what i was thinking, if i could get my bulbs down to roughly 90% (undermining the over drive) that would be great, getting most of the light while extending the life and increasing the energy
I have that same cheap Lux meter. True story: I took it apart (as you do) and there's a foil RF shield sticker thing on the inside, into which someone had scratched something in Chinese. Consulting some friends who know the language, it translated roughly to "stinky manager" - obviously the work of an unhappy factory worker.
Really nice comparison, and this confirms exactly my thoughts: out of the box, these floodlights absolutely grill the LEDs to high heaven. We've had a number of these spotlights fail in quick succession when using them as outdoor spotlights, powered by the output of a photocell (for dusk till dawn operation).
I personally reckon that trying to get an ex-council streetlight from the metal halide or fluorescent era would work wonders as a spot/driveway light etc and would blow the socks off one of these spots in terms of lifespan.
I would personally go with:
220nF for general illumination (e.g. as a night light or similar)
470nF for use as a desk light/work light or similar (using multiple if needed to boost intensity)
1uF for use as an outdoor spotlight (even at 1uF it will last way longer than without a capacitor at all).
Definitely worth doing on a LED floodlight 😉. Make them last. Long live the capacitor dropper circuit!
Very illuminating - thanks Clive
I don't trust videos realeased on 1st April but I feel safe with Big Clive.
The Joke here is the 'lifespan' quoted on the packaging of these LED products.
Although I still wonder how to mod LED strips running DC current for longer lifespan.
MORE TESTABLE HYPOTHESI NEEDED!
And for the Final experiment. Functional RGB (AC and DC feeds) with eternal lifespans, and still correct behavior by remote.
Practically running the LEDs between 30-15mA gives us the best efficiency and apparently longer life. Thanks big Clive you are one of these TH-cam dinosaurs that make it still worth
Love this channel. Is anyone else going to mention that this guy's diction is just impecable? He could narrate anything and I could listen to it all day.
thats what we all fell in love with. the tech stuff is just the icing on the cake.
About five years ago I converted some light fittings to use integrated LED / power supply modules despite having a huge heatsink I kepkept popping modules every now and then by simply adding a Cap I fixed the problem. line voltage was about 245 not the 220 as specified on the board perhaps that was the issue, was easy fixed with a cap. I was inspired to try this by Clive‘s capacitive dropper videos. Many thanks mate!
Very good, Clive. Quite a substantial drop in power and heat, without much loss in luminance. Pity you didn't have a 680nF on hand and try that.
I really like this information. I'm trying to install a bunch of LED shop lighting, but I want super high efficiency and long lifespans. This is a perfect way to go about that, if I can double the efficiency I can save as much as a full kilowatt while all the lights are running! That's over a dollar saved in every normal work day with the lights on!
Bought a case of Budweiser on the way home from the city and they are giving away cheap little solar battery packs model bmp-j342a 👍🏻scores lol,,, you’ve inspired me to disassemble everything I can get my hands on lately.
Handy little project this. Doobied a set of super cheap 100w LEDs (4 for £35) Modded with thermal tape between board and case. Upgraded the mains cable to the board as it wouldn't stay in the Rainbow Wago, and potting the Wago in a project box as they're now video lights.
I missed the live stream. I recently bought 3 of these lamps as they were sooo cheap! I have two clamped to my monitor, providing some desk illumination. The 3rd I was going to tear down or keep handy just in case one of the others fail. Seeing the results of your test I think I will be making up a little switch box to provide a a few output levels. Great video and perfect choice of light to test it on. Maybe you had sight of my shopping cart on CPC! ;)
Lux like your on to a winner here Clive.
On a more serious note, would be good to see a temperature performance on something like this in future.
For those of us who have a short drive in front of the house, a string of these would be good permanently lit, with the newer LED street lights. As unlike the older discharge lighting, they do not throw enough light to see too well off the main area of light. Or even a few of these would keep the garden lit and still not use as much electricity as the old spotlights.
An excellent mod...thank you for posting this!
Very interesting. Thanks Big Clive. So you get a little less light but the efficiency goes way up as well as the lifespan. Manufacturers should make that an option. It could even be a sales gimmick.
this is incredible. didn't know you can do this on "AC LED". i did some testing too albeit in simpler scale with 12V DC led bars (white and red). i hooked em to my bike and powered it with a USB powerbank and DC step-up converter which you can set from say 9V to 13V. i had to let it run at around 10.8V to achieve acceptable brightness, heat level and battery consumption. if i set it to 12.0V (which it is rated) not only it is so hot but it also drains the battery quickly (more watt consumed).
Im buying these caps to protect my floodlights right now!! The luxmeter gave nice numeric information for this video.
And here I was just contemplating on how to make my new business sign LED lamps last longer before installing them. Me thinks it is time for an experiment on the 100 watt LED floods
Great video and an awesome hack.
Might try this on my CCTV IR camera illumination which runs a bit warm. In complete darkness you don't need much light as long as camera is sensitive enough. Should be good for those cheapy grow lamps too.
Great business opportunity there, dooby-daptors to connect between the LED lamp and the lamp holder.
Dear Clive, keep in mind that the general public don't have soldering irons. You can do your bit to save the planet by teaming up with a company that simply puts a capacitor in an adaptor. "Plug your led work light in via this adaptor and it will save energy and last 30 times as long". Thanks for the experiment. Btw the lumen is a measure of total light output, which can't be achieved by sampling one part of space (there ain't much light round the back of this one, but there is in others) whereas the lux is a mesure of intensity in a chosen region. So a meter plonked in a particular position can only report lux, not lumens. So a rating in lumens is great for an omniradiant dangling bulb, but nigh on useless for a spotlight.
This demonstration didn't require a soldering iron.
Clive - The LEDs like being cool and do get more efficient the cooler they are, but there gets to a point where this effects stops and some LED will get less efficient if the get too cold. Can I suggest you build yourself a small integrating sphere / box for light measurement. The sphere / box should have holes opposite each other (one for the light and one for the detector) with a baffle to stop direct light from the light source hitting the detector. I would recommend the size of the sphere / box be approximetley 5 times the longest distance of the light source. I.e. Light source 100x100m - sphere/box size 500x500mm
Great video Clive! It's actually prompted me to order some capacitors for the 2 new floodlights I just got for the shed. They only came in 100w versions which is overkill for my needs so putting some of these inline is a no-brainer. I have already got some spacious IP66 rated junction boxes so they should fit in there just fine and the lights should now last beyond my lifetime.
I'm not sure what level of capacitance would be required for 100W lights. They will also have to be the simple COB based lights without a separate driver.
@@bigclivedotcom quite right. I had thought the lens section could not be removed without destroying the seal but it turns out it can be and what I find is an array of 105 LEDs on a white board so it's hard to trace the tracks. I THINK they are grouped into 5 blocks with each block having 3p and 7s. There are also 8 constant current drivers so no hope of using an external capacitor this time. There are 8 driver chips (CYT1000A, each of which has 2 drivers), I am also thinking the 5 blocks are in series which means 3p 21s in total so perhaps the drivers are all in parallel and they have a rating of 5-60mA so if all are in parallel that gives 80-960mA. Somewhere in the middle would give the rated 100W (at 240v) so I guess that makes sense.
I guess I could change all the surface mount resistors but I don't fancy doing that.
7:21 Very briefly HOPI measures 502mW.
There is a Hopi available, that measures below 0.5W. This is the high power version.
I remember the Bulb Boss that you would put between a screw base bulb and the socket (it was a little disk) and it would ramp up the power to the (incandescent) light and supposedly prolong the life of the filament. I think they also has one that would let you flick the switch to dim the light.
Liking this method for bathroom bulkhead light. I will see what the client thinks.
Can’t wait for you to get one Million Subs!
All this talk about dooby lamps reminds me of my childhood fav: "Scooby dooby doo, where are you?" 😄
Every time you short a cap it is blowing little chunks of metal off of the cutting edge of your scissors.
we will rebuild.
A while ago I bought a similar cheap LED floodlight without cable/plug, and attached the cable/plug to it myself. I felt like a real Big Clive.
I'd love to see more capacitance across the LED string to reduce the flicker and maybe improve the power factor. That said I love a good under driven lamp.
I dig these videos.
Assuming no change in distribution and constant distance between luxmeter and the DUT (luminaire) whilst changing power level, you are effectively measuring the lumen output. Generally speaking, power consumption will drop by a few % once driver circuitry temperature has stabilised and lumen output will drop as the diodes increase in temperature.
Awesome video!
Lots of love from kenya!
It's simple idea similar to " Dubai lamp". They run much cooler and are much efficient and last longer. If you want more light just buy more lamps.... Crazy but works.
What I think would be very interesting, is comparing Head lights from cars. They put out so much Light for being 12 volt, and Last along time. Being able to convert a few Lights in home to 12 volt, with a Special attachment, to add a little dimming, Wouild make these a HUGE business.
I was connected the other day and this was quite an interesting experiment to perform live. Glad to see you fixed those inexplicable cracking and ripping noises that were affecting the stream every now and then, followed by general laughter. Oh my!
I was about to ask a few questions back then but the chat speed was way too fast for my slow English.
I am interested in doing this with sealed non-hackable bulbs (unfortunately not being as the ones you show in that brilliant previous video). The idea would be to place the hack just inside the holder, but I guess it would be unsafe to leave a capacitor live there by itself in case another person might have to manipulate it unknowingly in the future.
what would be the recommended value and wattage of the resistor (or resistors, if it depends on the capacitor value)?
How would a discharge resistor affect the wattages and/or luminances in this chart?
Thanks for the analysis!
Hi Clive, Can you make a video just discussing these types of capacitors, the ratings and the safety aspects of using them. Also a non wago block way of wiring these in series with a lamp fitting Thank you ! ps. and how do these capacitors fail ?
Interesting video as always!
If the sole intention is to promote lamp longevity the pulling it back to 8 or 9 watts would go a long way without sacrificing too much intensity. If you want to maintain the intensity yet prolong the life, then engineer some form of additional heatsink. It would be great if those were 1W chips and they are driving them at .71W, bad if they are .5W chips and they are overdriving them already.
@bigclivedotcom I'm curious, is there a rule of thumb for expected increased lifetime of an LED as a function of the decreased power? Is the relationship inversely linear (e.g. 1/2 power = 2x lifetime)? exponential (1/2 power = 4x lifetime)?
nice one. Are there any downsides from putting a cap on those lights?
Not really. If the capacitor went short circuit the light would just light at full intensity, and if the light failed short circuit the capacitor would limit the current.
@@bigclivedotcom cheers
Clive, we fitted a load of LAP 20W led pir outdoor lights. After 3_4 ,months they failed. Soooooooo??......The manufacturer knew about the fault! The cable restraint nut that grips cable entering unit was acting like capillary action, when it rained. Water dropped on cable and ran into unit .....Then .......FUBAR😋 .
If it wasn't for that fault the lights wudda been great
I think the problem with using smaller capacitors to extend the life of the LEDs is that high speed voltage spikes from lightning and other sources can still get through.
Whereas a resistor would provide a greater impedance even for very short pulses. Perhaps a combination of capacitance and resistance.
Great little test. 1uF caps will now be harder to get for a while of course :o)
Great video, as always, hooowever...you should really try Julian Ilett's trick and open up the hoppi meter and cover the displays in red electrical tape , thus getting rid of the flicker. Not sure if it'd help, but with persistancy of vision and all that it just might. New video idea maybe
I'd like to see some larger caps and on different COBs to see what the best light efficiency you can get is if you need to say light an outdoor area
I use two 240v dimmable, filament LED lamps in series - with incredible results ! They give a decent light and should last (nearly) forever 😁
Hey Clive, if you permanently incorporate the 100nf cap, you'll have a modern version of that light bulb that's been lit for over 100 years. Maybe we can put it on the other side of the same fire hall?
I guess solder joint or voltage spike damage to doobing cap related issues will kill it sooner or later.
Thank you Clive, for an interesting experiment! Not being very knowledgeable in the theory of electronics (I can help myself in very basic stuff), I now need to find a (qualified) electrician to advise me on the best and safest place put some caps into my house lighting circuits. I'm sick of the rubbish LED lamps we get in South Africa, most don't last a fraction of the advertised/boasted thousands of hours life span. Would a cap in circuit like this give some measure of spike protection?
Two other possible combinations for power "settings" between 3.0 amd 10.7; 2uf (2 1uf capacitors in parallel) and 1.47uf (a 1uf and a 470nf in parallel).
I'm curious at what point the light starts to run at a temperature other than "stone cold".
Also, what was the light's run temperature at full power? Did / does it pass the 10 Second Test?
Well done
Would a dummy load of about 1W keep the hopi working at low loads. Like a 1W 470K resistor in the clamp terminals? Also would a high VA load keep the W reading active, so a capacitor could keep a useful display without manual arithmetic?
Running temperature might also be interesting.
Stone cold once you stop grilling the LEDs. The minimal heatsinking they use on this stuff is just fine for all purposes below the over optimistic factory specs. The best balance is around 220 nano Farts, which is probably the best compromise between heating the LEDs or the capacitor while still giving the most light.
This is the video a lot of the dooby commenters were waiting for. Thanks for getting the lux meter and doing the testing. Like you said, pretty much got what we expected, but now we know for certain.
Question, would this work on automotive led interior lights too?
For low power automotive lamps a resistor can be used. Or in some cases a diode or two in series to nudge the voltage down slightly.
@@bigclivedotcom Thanks so much for the reply Clive. I have modified 3 lights to the Dubai style so far, very happy with the results. Now to the 12 volt bulbs.
@@rolliebca it been 10 months. Did you do the 12 volt mod? What are the results and what components did you use? I’m interested 🙂
What would it be like if you had say a 3 or 4 uF cap in? Would it give similar light level to the link, but with slightly reduced power usage?
I think for the purpose of a flood light, using the 1uF doesstill make it a very usable light. MY mind is just wondering what saize cap will keep the 3000 Lux but with a slightly lower wattage :)
Would be interesting to see this at 120V. It looks like Clive has a product idea there, "LED Light Saver" just a box with a capacitor inside and 2 terminals, could pass Live, Neutral, and Ground though and make it seem like it does more. Of course, making it compliment to regulations, but I could see it selling to lower the brightness of LED floodlights around your house so there is a more consistent light, or just saying it will save energy/money/green bs.
Thank you for showing us the results and teaching us helpful methods. I have a question that needs to be answered plz. Can I use a 1250v cap that I have plenty salvaged from CFL circuits for capacitor dropper led bulbs?
Those high voltage caps would _work_ but they are usually low values like 4.7nF so they'd only pass a teeny tiny amount of current. Even the larger-value film caps in a CFL might not be enough. If you want to run LEDs with a CFL circuit you can often use the circuit as-is, shorting the old filament connections and connecting across a string of anti-parallel LEDs.
I just posted a video where I reverse engineered a 3-way CFL so the topic has been on my mind.
By the looks of the notes you made, it would be more beneficial to have the light in line with a way to flip it between a 1uF and a 470 nF capacitor to run it cooler as a work light with a high and low level output. Think it would make for a light on a work truck that would last for years, ignoring the factors of water ingress and vandalism?
These would be very good as low-level path lights, with series capacitors selected to suit the distance between them so as not to leave any dark spots.
Alternatively, if you had some of these lights wired to a PIR sensor, you could wire a capacitor across the relay contacts so as to give constant low-level illumination which would go full brightness whenever something warm (you, your car, a visitor welcome or otherwise, passing vehicles, one of the neighbourhood moggies .....) moved within the sensor's field of view. The lamps would only be on full power for a few minutes at a time, so should still last a few years.
I wonder if this or the resistor mod could be done to a smartbulb? The mi bulbs are pretty cheap at £10ish a bulb
This gives me an idea...
Have lights like this run on the 47nF caps as "navigation lights" and throw in 220nF via relay for actual light (maybe triggered via sensors or something).
Does Electrolytic capacitors can be used instead of polyester capacitors? Value like 3.3uf 400v, 4.7uf 400v. If yes then do I have to connect the L wire to the + leg of the capacitor and the - leg to the led L input?
Would love to know how it compares to the lumens at rated and modified conditions against what it was sold as
Thanks For The knowledge
Next mod idea: which inductors and capacitors will correct the power factor.
Looks like if you require the output of a 10 watt lamp buy a 20 watt and stick a 1uF capacitor in and get a lamp that will last way longer for probably less than the 10 watt as the LEDs will run more efficiently. Win win all round
The very cheap led lamps are still junk.
Buy a good one and dim it down. That would be worth the effort.
@@CyberlightFG CPC sells decent stuff, UK company so you know it's UK compliant, I wouldn't chance buying 240 volt stuff from the usual suspects.
Very interesting experiment. I would attach the 330nF permanently and use it as a forever lamp for a porch etc....
I'd be interested seeing a rough lux per watt with 2 and 3 uF to see if maybe there's a better sweet spot above 1uF that gives you more than 50% without cooking vreg.
Ok love this. Now if we buy a 20 watt and fit it with a capacitor and discharge resister.. what will it need to draw to equal the same or close to the same light output as the 10 watt?
That would depend on supply voltage and internal driver. But several 1uF or 2.2uF capacitors may work if wired in parallel.