Why we cannot prove that God exists (intro to Dialectical Theology)
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ก.ค. 2024
- In this video, I discuss a quote from Dietrich Bonhoeffer: "A God who could be proved by us would be an idol." The insights of dialectical theology (Barth, Tillich) explain why we cannot prove that God exists.
Recommended resources:
My Beckett book, "Christ's Wait for Godot: A Theological Appreciation of Samuel Beckett" - amzn.to/3ExJz7a
Paul Tillich, "Dynamics of Faith" - amzn.to/3uXRZS4
Karl Barth, "Church Dogmatics II/1" - amzn.to/3891iWl
Karl Barth, "The Epistle to the Romans" - amzn.to/3EuTuKy
Karl Barth, "Anselm" - amzn.to/3JZEaqu
Enjoy my work? Buy me a coffee: www.buymeacoffee.com/MorrisonSDM
**Please note that all Amazon links are associate links, wherein I receive a percentage of your total purchase.
I have lived out for many decades this dialectical struggle you are talking about regarding faith and doubt. Karl Barth (and others) has been an enormous encouragement in helping to clarify what I already know in my heart to be true about the God who both reveals and hides Himself…
Excellent presentation, and extremely helpful - especially as a reminder of the "non-objectivism" inherent in the theology of Barth, Bonhoeffer, Tillich, et al.. Such an important message for all interested in Christian theology. Thank you.
Thanks for the kind words - glad you found the video helpful!
You address a very important theological issue Stephen - well done!
As a Christian epistemologist, I am in the process of completing a writing after nearly 23 years of research wherein I deal with this matter both philosophically as well as theologically…
But there’s something I want to propose (with some hesitation as it tends to provoke a response of surprise and even disgust): why does anyone feel compelled to try and prove the existence of God?
Even if one could, why would one want to???
Hello Stephen, greetings from the city of Bonn in Germany. I found your channel a few days ago and enjoy the contributions that enable me to refresh what I have learned in my university days. Please keep up the good work...
Hi Hans-Georg, thanks for watching and for the kind words!
A very clear explanation which accurately portrays Barth's understanding which isn't particularly easy to do. Thanks.
Thanks, Tom!
I’m an atheist who stopped believing a couple years ago. Since then though I’ve felt a desire to return if true. This has led to multiple attempts to try to return and “convince myself” which have failed. I have prayed though that if He is real, then He will lead me back.
But I’ve realized in these attempts that I cannot prove it, scientifically or historically. For example I cannot verify for a fact that the resurrection happened. Maybe it did, maybe it didn’t. So its led me to ask the question: what does it mean to trust Him? Can I trust that Christ really rose and thus trust Him?
Overall, I find this video very insightful and thought provoking, as it’s along these lines that I’m thinking about it this stuff. Thank you for posting this video.
Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts! Glad to hear you found it thought provoking.
Kyvorg, I'm an atheist also. And I was a Christion. I know what you are going through and it's not easy. Especially if you are open about your beliefs. One of the last socially expectable prejudices in US society is the idea that if you don't believe in a god (or even believe in the wrong god), you are somehow morally defective.
Try to make contact with other atheists. Like any group, there are atheist jerks but you will find lots of atheists' that either are or have gone through what you are and and are willing to help. We evolved to be followers because it reinforced tribes and helped us survive. That's why you keep trying to convince yourself. Its perfectly normal phycological reaction.
Thanks for this. Currently an agnostic, naturalist and theological non-realist but I learnt some stuff from this video. I'm a big fan of the mystical and apophatic tradition within Christianity and you expressed many of those sentiments from a contemporary protestant perspective.
Thanks for watching! Glad to hear you enjoyed it. I'm also partial to the mystical/apophatic traditions in this regard, though agree with Moltmann and others that their insights should be dialectically related to revelation (positive) theology. But I am certainly sympathetic to your position.
This reminds me of Gregory Palamas Essence-Energy distinction in Eastern Orthodox theology.
I'm not familiar with that idea, but I will check it out. Thanks, Joshua!
Brilliant video. I really appreciate how clear you explained this idea
Thanks, Ethan!
Wow, I'm impressed, Thank you so much for this, I've learned a lot from this video, and your channel in general, but this is addressing the question that has been haunting me for like a year. I stopped believing in God after writing some "arguments" (pseudo-Intellectual garbage one writes when bored) to experiment what would I say if I were an atheist, and afterwards realizing I couldn't answer them. I was quite disappointed with this, after making a transition from conservative evangelicalism to a more "progressive" Christianity, which allowed me to finally be at peace with my faith, I was quite content with being a Christian, and I remember how joyful were my prayers and how vivid was the grace of God.
I used to think that nothing really changed in my life, but I'm still being haunted by Christ, by the "mad stinking shadow of Christ" as Flannery O'Connor said. I really want to believe in the revelation of Jesus, but shouldn't I be wary of this? Isn't the fact that I desire something to be true a warning that my belief would be completely made up by myself? Why make that leap of faith when I'm fully conscious that it is me who is making it?
However, sometimes I feel like God is leading be somewhere, and finally I'll be outwited by God. Like he's trying to destroy my pathetic attempts at rationalizing faith, and only when I find myself in the deepest intellectual contradiction I could be able to succumb to his Grace. And your video would be an important part on that.
Again, thank you for this! This is helpful in so many ways, and I hope to check the literature you mentioned, may God bless you!
Thank you, Matias! I am very glad to hear this video was helpful to you. I can relate to what you’ve written here. Blessings!
I’m in the exact same boat as you!
I am starting read and grasp Tillich so my understanding is very shallow. But it’s curious that you mention Tillich but your definition of revelation is quite different from Tillich (which is the finite being faced with the holy & infinity of the concrete of faith) and also your definition of faith differs from Tillich’s approach (ultimate concern). I am struggling to understand how under this new approach we can prove idolatry since the distance between finite and infinite causes the impossibility to express this truth in human terms so we are saying that anything we(humans)say about God is false.Tillich, argues that the best way to express the concrete is through symbols and myths but this just begs the question of the validity of such things
Stephen,: are you doing a book on Bonhoeffer? Soren Kierkegaard was being "discovered" again -- as his books were being translated into other languages, so his influence on Bonhoeffer and Barth was significant. But I'm not sure that the aforementioned really understood the context of Kierkegaard's scepticism in his book Philosophical Fragments.
Yes, but not at the moment. Planning to study Bonhoeffer next after Tillich. Kierkegaard may come after, but certainly will be on the list of people I will get to eventually. Interesting what you write about Kierkegaard influencing Bonhoeffer!
From my own readings on Kierkegaard and even personal experiences this is what I’ve had to come to conclude as well, otherwise as Christians we are stuck in the “Twilight of the Idols”. God has to become wholly Other, but nonetheless, his Spirit reveals to us.
Ive listened to this at least a dozen times. Have you read Douglas Campbell's Romans commentary? Your explanation helps me understand his explanation of of Romans 1 in particular.
Also, your initial Bonhoeffer quote, was the elaboration your observation of the quote or all Bonhoeffer? I want to get my hands on whatever book it's from.
I haven't read Campbell's commentary, but I have heard only good things about his work. Thanks for listening to the video; I'm glad to hear it's helpful! The Bonhoeffer quote is short, "A God who could be proved by us would be an idol." It comes from "Ecumenical, Academic, and Pastoral Work: 1931-1932," P/260 in Dietrich Bonhoeffer Works Volume 11.
@Stephen D. Morrison Got it. So now I know to attribute the rest to you when quoting the rest. Thank you!
I tend to agree, but I'm still parsing things out. I wonder what your thoughts are on Donald Bloesch. Have you read his foundations series?
Hi Richard, thanks for watching! No, I haven't read any Bloesch, though I picked up his two-volume on Evangelical Theology a while back.
Hey Stephen. I'm Stefan(pronounced the same but with an F) I have just watched your summary of Moltmanns theology but I still find myself slightly struggling with his idea of the Crucified God. Would you mind maybe just summarising or helping me understand Moltmanns point of view. Thank you and God bless.
Hi Stefan, thanks for the comment and for watching! I have a chapter-length summary of CG in my Moltmann book. If you'd like, I'd be happy to send a PDF via email. Just email me at Stephen@sdmorrison.org. Thanks!
@@StephenDMorrison Thanks Stephen! I have emailed you! I look forward to reading your summary!
Have you read America's Four Gods, What we say About God & What that says About us Author Paul Froese & Christopher Bader?
I have not! Thanks for the recommendation though.
Because there is a God, we can’t prove it to others. That’s by design. but God can prove it to us. He doesn’t make hard terms to those who seek earnestly. We aren’t asked to prove anything to others either, but to believe, love, and walk by faith as a witness.
God insists that he not exist. As an event, Christian revelation is apocalyptic or world negating, in that it disrupts or uproots traditional epistemologies about God. For God is God preached (Luther) and revealed in the visible word of sacraments - water, bread and wine. Christianity discenters the philosopher's God for God clothed in his Word.
Yes we can.
Looks like denying that God can be proven isn't exactly scriptural:
Ro1:19 For what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood from His workmanship, so that men are without excuse.
That Bonhoeffer disagreed with this doesn't surprise me, though. Of course he found a clever-finding way to claim that God can't be proven.
Hey, I'm not here to argue, but I used to believe this as well. Until I heard a different view of Paul using a socratic argument against his Jewish detractors, we see him more clearly arguing against in the next few chapters.
So Paul believes the righteousness of God is revealed in the gospel. But others are saying the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and that "they/them" are without excuse because of xyz. Notice the amount of times it uses the words "they" and "them". But Paul flips it on its head and says so "you" who judge what about "you"? "You" do the same things! "You" will be judged the same as "them" if thats the case. His ultimate point being no "we jews" are not privileged at all over "them" But "ALL" ARE UNDER SIN AND SAVED BY GRACE APART FROM LAW.
@@deshawnrants5705
I like when Morrison says that one must first believe, “and then we seek to understand the nature of that faith”.
As he says, Faith is a top-down dynamic, and not a bottom-up.
We cannot pull ourselves with our bootstraps. God must rescue us. And he does so by giving us faith, by touching us with His finder, and thus causing us to believe.
Now, we need to be careful about swinging to the side of doubt for a downward spiral into death. But we also need to guard against the other extreme, which is the extreme of certainty, which is a caricature of faith coming from a false understanding of faith, a phantasm born of an irrational reading of the Bible. For us, Christians, that irrational faith is often found when we begin to use the Bible to declare different aspects of the truths that are revealed in the Bible. Nothing wrong with expressing in writing our understanding of different teachings and doctrine. But the danger is to use our statements of faith and catapult them in the sphere of Dogma. This is the danger, for as soon as we “transform” our “beliefs” into “conditions” of “fellowship”, we in fact create an idol.
So, let us not fall into the superficial unbelief, where doubt spirals downward into death, neither let us join the bandwagon of Dogmaticians who begin feeling “superior” and “set aside” to “enlighten the world”. This is idolatry; for there are no sets of beliefs that will enlighten the world. In fact, if we want to be honest, we will confess that all our “sets of beliefs” are not light in the divine sense of the word, for all our “beliefs” are but a flashlight in a dark world without God. And Christ will have nothing to do with our flashlights to enlighten the world. The only instruments he will use to enlighten the world with his truth and grace, are people who surrendered everything to him, beginning with their beliefs, even those they gathered from the Bible.