Why you should NOT set your watch backwards? Watch and Learn #96
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 ก.พ. 2025
- Can I set my watch hands backwards? This is a question I get fairly often. I say "no, you should not". At least don't make a habit out of it. Why not? Well, you will cause premature wear on various parts.
In today's episode of Watch and Learn, I will disassemble a watch movement to show you what you are doing when you set it backwards. I think you'll agree, it's not a good idea!
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Thank you for watching!
From what I've learn from a watchmaker,
to set the time properly, you need to go forward and pass the time to be set by over 5 min and
then go backward to remove the passed 5 min or so and put the hands at the correct position.
This way the gears are set back in place and remove any play in the movement.
Then when the movement starts to move the hands again,
the hands stay at the correct position without any play or misalignment.
This is exactly what I’ve been told and find on my watches if I don’t do this, the hands don’t quite align on the hour
Thank you sir, very interesting. I will try this technique the next time i install the hands because i kept installing them perfectly straight but then i checked and the minute hand was either too forward or either too backwards compared to the perfectly aligned to the 12 o'clock hour hand
Might depend on the specific movement. I use that technique on most of mine, but my Orient with F6922 (same as YN56/F6722/YN55) manual says to do the opposite, that is, to move the minute hand forward to the final position before pushing the crown in which results in proper alignment. Then again, some movements even turn the hands in the other direction relative to the crown
@@tiggxtreme hi sir. I have an yn55 movement. So what you're saying is I should let the watch run when installing the hands to remove any slack in the gears?
Interesting. Thank you.
I learned that lesson at the same time I acquired my obsession with time pieces. Sitting on my grandfathers knee as he taught me how to wind and set his Elgin pocket watch, which I still have. Thanks grandpa!!
awesome, thanks for sharing.
@@islandwatch and thank you for feeding my obsession with so many great watches on your site
Please never discontinue you watch and learn subsection - i always learn what I didn't know I wanted to.
Whether you set the watch forward or backward, you are forcing the canon pinion to slip, i.e., to override the friction fit with the second wheel shaft, so I see little difference in wear & tear to the pinion & shaft. Setting in either direction puts a non-normal load on the going train gears, up to the point where the friction fit slips, and it's not clear that going backwards puts a more dangerous load on the going train or escapement. I think a bigger concern might be the day/date complications, since they're connected to the hour wheel and not meant to be driven backwards. (And as others haven noted, Vostoks have the same architecture, but because the date complication has no quick-set, it is *expected* that you'll go back and forth.) However, I am not a watchmaker, only a devoted subscriber of watchmaker TH-cam channels! :-)
Usually day/date change mechanisms won't run backwards as they are usually set on a "slide" of sorts and won't actuate backwards.
However, regarding the canon pinion, I feel going both backwards and forwards a bunch is detrimental.
@@islandwatch Moving the wheels forwards 23 hours would put more wear on the mechanism than moving it back 1 hour. Whichever is closer puts less wear on the mechanism.
Date displays do normally rotate back when you roll the hands back, just generally not on the hour, but about 20 to 15 minutes before the hour. You need to make sure the date display is fully set before pushing the crown back in, otherwise it might slip and could put excessive wear on the mechanism or even break it.
With regards to a Zenith, the owner's guide says to adjust clockwise only for movements with a date feature. This includes movements with quickset date feature, too. For just the time keeping aspect, I can imagine going frequently in both directions might introduce some play into the mechanism and back hacking might introduce some wear in the escapement, but I sure can't say that with authority. So, another major debate in watch care emerges. As long as Marc doesn't turn down warranty work on his Islanders over this, we can all get along swimmingly. Let's not politicize this, though.😂
In my opinion you are partially correct, moving the canon pinion forward will leave microscopic traces in one direction. However, when moving the pinion backwards it may cause a set of different traces that will wear the pinion faster being a softer metal. This of course may take a long time to be noticed, but it does happen. The quality of the watch will reveal how long it will take. This was a common issue with pocket watches back in the days. Some manufacturers made the canon pinions in a way that when they got weaken, once removed, a littler "tab" can be pushed to reinstate a tight fit again, easier than tapping the pinion to create a notch. Also, if a pinion is overtightened, when moving backward it can stop the second wheel/train while adjusting, follow by the escapement. In the same scenario when a cannon pinion gets overtightened, moving forward will put more pressure on the second wheel/train and escapement and over-banking may occur. However, these 2 scenarios may be more common with pocket watches.
Dissimilar metal bearing have been used forever to AVOID wear.
Brilliant thank you. I’ve always assumed it was better to go forwards but did not have the understanding why. Now I do. Thanks Marc.
I always advance the time backwards on my G Shocks. No issues.
LOL
Nice
😂 but there *are* analogue quartz mechanisms in some gshocks.... Just saying...
(ah I've still got it. Still ruining perfectly good jokes with dull facts. 😅 edit: well... Still not mechanically powered... Damn it. Can't stop factualizing here...)
4:44 dial side and watchmaker's side I've always heard. (Although for me it could equally be called the swearing side😂)
You can’t have a problem with something that is God Tier.
Thank you Marc! Lum-Tec directions warns to never set their quartz models backwards. If my watch is one minute fast, I break that rule, otherwise, it’s just as easy to set forwards and correct the date. I really appreciate your committment to the watch enthusiast community! Keep on keepin’ on!
As always the most thoughtful , well researched & eloquent watch channel around , keep MAMACOO coming !
Thanks for the entertaining video!Yes, in theory alternating between compressive and tensile stresses is bad for fatigue, but in practice you can still have very long life if the stress amplitude is small enough. 🤓
Thx for the video. My grandfather wore mechanical watches and he told to only set the time forward
thanks!
Mark what a great instructive video. Yes I am 57 so it's a video haha. I generally only adjust in a forward direction except for a few minutes if it's gained or especially if it's lost time. These especially complex watch gears need to be handled with care. Don't upset the motion works! Don't force the clutch. Thanks lessons learnt.
Glad it was helpful!
Your watch and learns are how I found your channel! What a pleasant surprise on this fine Sunday morning 🎉
I recently traveled a few times throught countries with 1 and 4 hours difference time zones and had to adjust my mechanical watches. hopefully there was no damage. I had no idea about this. thanks for the video.
Never thought it was a good idea to wind a watch backwards and now thanks to Mark I know why.
Good stuff, thanks.
In old watches the movement can be worn. these gears that mesh together will have a normal wear pattern. I could see under certain circumstances that rotating the hand set backwards could cause a binding situation and possibly damage parts further.
Great and informative video. I would like to think that all the modern movements would account for the backward movement as it is such a basic thing and I can’t imagine they would have missed to design it for that. Regardless it wouldn’t be a bad idea to always adjust forward
Agree 100% Mark…. I never wind the hands backwards on any of my automatics…. Always enjoy your videos….💯👍
thanks!
I think Marc has a valid point about the slipping of the cannon pinion. If you are only overriding the friction in the direction in which the cannon pinion moves then you are potentially at a very small scale not wearing away (or at a slower rate) material that results in friction which would prevent the cannon pinion to slip in the reverse direction. We are talking about very tight tolerances here. I think rotating in both directions has to be the fastest way to file away/spread any material holding the cannon pinion onto the arbor. Don’t assume a perfect cylindrical surface and hole when thinking about moving in either direction. Just mentioning this as I see comments stating that they think slipping in both directions is the same as only ever slipping in the clockwise direction. For the sake of holding the cannon pinion and not allowing backslipping, I think Marc makes a valid point.
thanks, I love to hear everyone's points, however I feel it is common sense that two friction fit items will become looser in fit if we spin both ways instead of one way.
Thanks Professor Marc!
That's an interesting video. I liked seeing the movement, which made it much easier to understand what you were discussing. I'll have to check out some of your other Watch and Learn videos.
Great tutorial Mark! Thanks for the demo and the explanation!
your best watch and learn yet👍
Wow, thanks
I haven't heard a watchmaker say anything about that or read about it in any of my books. And tightening up a canon pinion is a piece of cake.
Thank you, Marc!
My pleasure!
Always love a good watch and learn and I always wondered why you shouldn't do this. PS friendly reminder, I'd love to see you make a 38mm normal/ blue aventurine Brookville one day.
thank you
Thanks for the video Marc and when I set my watch I sat it to 12 pm then set the day/date for the day before then wind it 30 times then more the time forward to the correct time and date/day clicks over automatically 👍
Makes perfect sense Marc. I'm not sure where I heard it as it was some time ago, but it was my understanding it was safe to set a watch in either direction. Thankfully, like you suggested, I only did it on the odd occasion and didn't make a habit of it. I prefer to err on the side of caution when it comes to something as delicate as a watch movement.
Nice, thank you!
I've always wondered about that. Thanks.
Interesting. I learned something from this, thanks!
Glad it was helpful!
Great video and answered a question I’ve always wondered about.
thank you
It’s good to know that minor adjustments are fine for when daylight savings time ends. Also my Orient has a tendency to gain a few minutes over time, and I will occasionally synch it back with my phone or atomic G-Shock.
Interesting stuff here! Thanks for sharing!
Running the handwork gears backwards meshes the other side of the gear teeth. As the opposite side isn't engaged during time keeping, I wouldn't think this would be much of a problem. I can see burrs from the forward side of the handwork gears being dislodged during backwards setting on a very old mechanism, hence the advice for best practice as outlined in you video. I do like the video and I remember being told not to wind backwards while setting. I may have even been chewed out for it at some point.
This is interesting to me from a "gearing backlash" perspective since I like to have the the minute hand right on the tick when the seconds hand passes the 12. Your video inspired me to check this out. As most modern automatic watches have a "hacking" feature, I can stop the seconds hand at 12. I tried setting the minute hand forward to a tick and watching how it moves throughout a minute. My Hamilton watch took about 5 seconds to start moving the minute hand. If I back up the minutes hand to a tick and start it, the minute hand starts moving immediately.
This was surprisingly fun to watch.
Dunno...I'd need to think more about this one but I do see the points you are making. Most times I naturally just advance mine forward, unless going back due to DST changes like you mentioned. The one exception however are on the few watches (mainly Vostoks) that have that have no quick set on the date. Fastest way to fix the date on those is to go past midnight to about 4am, then back to 8pm, then back to 4am again.
Please do think more about it, would love to hear people's thoughts. These are my thoughts with my background.
thanks mark great video
Great video Mark. I like these technical vid's like this.
Nice work on the video. Wait there’s more…if the canon pinion is tight the power from the keyless can override the barrel and push the gear train, including the escape wheel, backwards. The back faces of the escape wheel hit the exits of the pallet jewels and drag across them. Not sure what this does to the watch but it’s certainly nothing good.
Thank you for answering a question that I always had. I've seen people set their watches backwards in various YT videos, so I thought it was alright. Maybe it is, but why take a chance? I will be following your advice going forward (pun intended!). Thanks again, Marc.
thanks!
Actually I never did that, because it felt weird, but without knowing this 😅
Yeah, it's just strange.
Makes sense - good stuff sir!
thanks.
Good to know. forward from now on. gracias
Wonderful and informative video. Thank you, Mark!
Great video. Very well explained. More in-depth movement videos, please👍
And what is about quartz watch? Is it ok in that case? Thank you for the video!
What about watches that don’t have a quickset date and you have to rock the time back and forth at 12 to change the date. Nomos still have date changes like that. Always wondered the long term effect on that because you’d have to do it a lot over the lifetime of ownership.
Correct, but I suspect that the extent of the setting damage is minimal. FWIW, most watchmakers put a tiny bit of Moebius 9010 on the center wheel shaft. This would protect the canon pinion from most setting damage. That said, many cheap Chinese movements neglect to properly oil this, and most of the rest of the watch as well.
I've never actually seen that? Interesting.
@@islandwatch I tried to post URLs that showed other watchmakers oiling or greasing the canon pinion, but TH-cam deleted them. Wristwatch revival and My Retro Watches TH-cam channels do this as part of their watch service. The Seiko manual for the NH 35 recommends greasing the canon pinion. Hope this helps and passes the TH-cam censors this time!
If this really was a problem, surely the movement would have an anti turn back mechanism?
Slip is slip. The canon pinion doesn't care which way it's slipping. Slipping in either direction applies unusual force to the train but doing backwards applies it to the side of the gear teeth that isn't normally carrying the force. If it was to distort that face it would have less of an impact. For that reason, I'd make the argument that it's actually better to go backwards. It's also going to be way better to go 5 minutes back then 23h and 55m forwards in terms of cannon pinion wear.
I agree that 5 min backwards is better than 24 hours forwards.
Imagine two press fit items, how do you loosen them? Do you turn in one direction? Or do you turn back and forth?
@@islandwatch Intuition will only get you so far. I can't see how turning in either direction or both could help at all in that situation.What could help is the wiggling along the axis as you do as it could help overcome binding. Tools for removing a cannon pinion like the Bergeon 4854 are designed to pull straight up, parallel to the axis because turning or wiggling with tweezers can also cause binding and mar the surfaces. Pulling straight up should prevent binding. When the cannon pinion it turned by an intermediate setting wheel it's about close to purely axial motion as you will get.
If my watch is 3 hours behind I can either back up three hours and cause proportionally more wear on the canyon pinion or I can go 15 hours forward and cause proportionally less wear but how do I know that less wear over a 15-hour jump does not amount to more wear compared to more wear over a mere three-hour jump back? I do get the desire to have an even wear pattern due to maintaining the rotational direction but I would think that over time using reversed rotation will establish its own wear pattern. And I suppose the canyon pinion is in the end a wear part that may just need eventual replacement. In any case, now I'm even more paranoid than I already was about even pulling the crown.
My rationale follows that, better off going in the same direction than going backwards part of the way, yes.
@@islandwatch I understand your concern.. I can't come up with a good analogy. Let's say I'm in a parking lot and I can either back up for 30 feet to get to the exit or I can go forward for 200 feet and circle around to get to the same exi. Should I worry about extra transmission wear if I use reverse? The transmission has sliding gears on shafts and the output shaft rotation is reversed when in reverse gear. Like I said, its a bad analogy.
i learn on watchmaking scool to remove the cannonpinion with your tweezers so mark well done NP !
What about non quick set date watches that require moving between 9 and 12 to change the date? Like all the USSR Vostocks, Pobedas, etc. Do you recommend winding all the way over 24 hrs repeatedly to move the date? Arent they designed to go back and forth from 12 to 9 to 12.
They are designed to do that.
If Putin says it’s 13 o’clock, it’s 13 o’clock.
Nomos, many others. Lot's of older movement lack quickset. Can't say I'm a fan of it, but they do recommend it. So. . . who knows! Maybe those older movements are designed against it.
@@islandwatch I'd guess that a lot of those movements aren't even designed with that being a consideration. Manufacturing and engineering standards in pretty much every industry have improved drastically in just the past few decades.
Bro, truer words... @@johnsrabe
Very informative.
Glad you think so!
For watches like the Vostok Amphibian, you kinda have to go back and forth to set the date, so each time you store the watch and get it back out, you’ll be wearing the cannon pinion out to set the time and date. I keep mine on a winder for this reason.
watches lacking quickset, absolutely.
Yes, owning one of those, this came immediately to mind
I did not know that. Thank you.
Great video, Mark! BTW, I have some kind of OCD 😂 so I have to sincronice the hacking second hand of my watch every 3/4 days, so I pull the crown, wait for some seconds then push it in again. Do you think this could cause any kind of premature wear or problem for doing this so often?
Cheers Mark (:
The real advice should be: don't set your mechanical watch more often than is really necessary.
truth there.
Keep it unused in a safe!
I've never turned a watch backwards to set it, but I always thought the centre mechanics had just been disengaged from the spring mechanism during setting, I never knew it was being forced around a fixed pin?!? Have i understood that correctly? If so, is that true for all movements, including Swiss movements? 😮
yes, that is true. All movements.
@@islandwatch wow, you live and learn, or literally Watch and learn 👍🏻😁
@@islandwatch Saludos desde Venezuela, incluso aplica para relojes análogos de cuarzo? tengo un Casio Duro / Marlin
That was great, I appreciated the model!
How about traveller GMT watches? Is it ok to rotate the hour hand backwards to set the dates? Thanks for the informative video anyway!
Only ever set forwards but then again my mechanical watches all have a date complication so you have to quick set to the day before then advance past midnight to get the midnight position then go forwards from there. More important is to set the hands to 6:30 before touching the date advance with certain mechanicals. But anyway, interesting… just when you thought there was nothing else to learn!
The only risk I see to moving the hands backwards is on a date, or day/date complication when the teeth are engaged with the day or date wheel. I'm not career horologist, but have torn into and rebuilt a few movements at this point and see no reason why you can't turn the movement backwards. The winding works disengages one set of wheels or another, depending on position, allowing the others to effectively spin freely.
As stated if the date and or day wheel are engaged , typically between 9p and 3a, then absolutely don't go backwards and definitely don't try to change the day or date till out of the "engaged" zone, or you can easily damage the mechanism. I don't bother with keeping my watches on a watch winder. I rotate between a few routinely and set the time on each I chose to wear daily.
What I've been doing which works well for me is to pull the stem to the "set" position on the watch I was wearing the previous day, on the next morning, before I select another. This typically stops the movement (on watches with hacking) around the same time each day, typically between 6 and 7am. I then chose my next time piece, which is now also parked at somewhere between 6 and 7 am, and well clear of the "danger zone" (9p and 3a mentioned above), quickly adjust forward or back, set the day/date and I'm off. There's zero risk of any of my watches ever stopping on their own in the "danger zone" and makes setting the time each day a breeze.
If you use a watch winder to keep the movement charged, then this is likely irrelevant, though the only issue I see with a watch winder is a watch only wears if the movement is running, so why have all your watches wear out needlessly, requiring an expensive service, if they don't need to run. Let them run down and extend the time between the service to as much as double or more. Today's synthetic lubricants don't wear like the lubricants of old, so no point in paying for service prematurely. I know I drifted off topic a bit, but we are talking about damaging movements and thought this tidbit may help with the bigger picture!
It’s difficult for people who travel frequently not to turn their mechanical watches backward, especially for grand complication watches, given the complexity of setting their watches when they arrive in their destination with a different time zone.
What about movements that have jump hour hand like a gmt that are designed for that? Secondly, as a fellow mech eng, when the crown is pulled out, the power transfer from the main spring is disengaged, leaving little or no force on the drive train. With little force in the train, how much wear is there? Not questioning what you are stating. Just trying to analyze it myself.
Actually It's not disengaged, when you pull the crown to the setting mode the watch push a lever that stops one of the gears or the balance wheel. In other words, it's the same as accelerating a car with the handbrake up, the power is there but you don't move forward.
Always forward, I really don't understand why, but... forward 😄
I don’t know why or where I learned it, but I always set my watch forward. I have never liked to go backwards with it.
So in your opinion ,should iwind my watch with a back and forward motion,or just a forward motion ?.My Oris after a few days forward only winds developed the problem that the Automatic rotor started spinning.I worry about using the back and forward wind,fearing wear on the gears.After using the Back and forward winding for a few days stopped the "sticking" Rotor.-And no the spring was only a 3rd wound before you ask.
Wow, I’m surprised my suspicions were correct. I’ve always avoided doing this. I’m very paranoid about messing with the date wheel too. I only do that in a certain way as well.
Glad I could help!
I've always thought it was a no-no to rotate the hands clockwise to set the time, but after watching this I'm pretty certain it probably makes little odds really. You gave no actual valid reason.
Do all movements use friction fitting for the canon pinion? Or do pricier watches disengage the gears out of the way somehow?
Hi Marc, if you should only wind forward, what do you do if you then start to change the day/date during this process as I thought you shouldn't be forcing them to change?
So for changing time zones when travelling is it ok to go back an hour or two?
Surely it depends on the type of movement and its quality ? I bet I could set my VH31 watches backwards every time they need to be set and that would be fine for decades. But I have some automatics that just feel delicate and I'm very careful when setting them.
cannot say i understood well , but i never do it backwards, but what about the quartz movements? is the same concept/ theory applied?
Not so much with the digital ones.
quartz is very different.
@@islandwatch
yep , but changing the date when changing gears mechanism is not active ie between 6 and 9 am is applied to both movements as i was told , according to this i thought that setting the watch backward would be harmful as well , was i right ?
Hearing this, it baffles me how movements vary in their winding direction to set the time. Some you turn the crown forward/clockwise to advance the time. Others you turn the crown backwards to advance the time forward.
yeah, very odd! Been there.
That just depends on whether there's an odd or an even number of gears in the setting works. The issue for the pinion, discussed in this video, is the same --- going backwards is a tiny bit worse than going forwards, and both are a little bit of wear on the watch in a vulnerable spot.
I don't have any of these concerns with my old school Flintstones sundial.
If it is friction fitted, don't we wan't to choose the direction that requires the least winding so we reduce wear? As for the gear teeth, only one direction will surely cause wear only on one side to the point of slipping eventually. Winding in the opposite direction would wear the side of the teeth that doesn't get any wear so would not add to wear of the contact pressure side (the side that wears during the watch being active).
I usually adjust forward, but then turn back just a bit into position, because this seems to wander less when I push in the crown.
This could be movement specific: in Seiko 7S26, moving backward can sometimes stop the second hands, I don’t think it is a good idea to do it regularly for that movement.
Very interesting video, I didn't know about the slipping clutch, however you don't really make a strong case for why you feel that rotating backwards puts more wear on the clutch than rotation forwards, it's still just a friction fit either way. I prefer going forwards due to the day/date complication, but on a watch with no day/date it would make more sense to me to set the watch forwards or backwards depending on which direction is the shortest way to the target time.
Date setting during certain hours can also pose problems. Might we see a video about that?
☆
Done that, LOL.
My oversight. Sorry Marc
For a fast watch +2min/week! Can't I just pull the crown out and wait a few minutes until the right time catches up again, no turning at all ?
Love your videos, Mark, but I'm not gonna worry about this one much. When I buy my first $15k Omega...maybe. But for my $200 LI Watch (or $100 AliExpress specials), I'm OK livin' on the edge.
Love it!
Great video! Thanks for the edgeumication. 😅
Any time!
So pull the crown for one hour at the time change?
At least 1 hr. Can go longer if you want.
you can go backwards for an hour, I wouldn't worry about that.
Would this be considered ancient technology now? I’m amazed at the genius of the men that came so many generations before us. We should all revere them. Them and reality tv stars.
It sure is, quite ancient!
Complicated complications, but still hours better than a soulless pear watch.
⌚️🤔🧐
haha, so true!
I instinctively knew never to set a watch backwards without understanding any of the technicalities.
Never done that, it just feels strange to go backwards
right?
My watch instruction book says: In order to prevent damage to the movement, the hands should generally only be adjusted clockwise.
which brand and model?
@@javiersaturno9689 Mühle Glashütte 29er.
Good to know. My watch runs about 10s fast a day so I just hack and let it real life catch up once a week. :D
Thank you... so I wasn't completely insane by setting my watches forward only.
It seems to me as when the canon pinion is moving in operation with the minute wheel the clockwise faces of the theeth of the canon pinion are touching the intermediate wheel towards the hour wheel. this means the pinion is driving the hour wheel.
now when you set the watch, the intermediate wheel will drive the pinion. this means when you set the time forward the faces of the minute wheel and the pinion which never ever touch get in touch. 10:13
I do not beleave that this is a true issue. more important might be to not set the time to fast, as this introducing forces into the power train which should not be there. but also here, when the watch is put in time setting mode with hacking all the force of the main spring is on the escapement, and this also does not seem to be a big deal. going then counterclockwise actually should reduce the tourque on the wheels and therefore on the escapement.
general remark, when removing the canon pinion you should first remove the intermediate wheel as you can break either of the gears when the theeth are not alligned. the intermediate wheel just drops into position, the canon pinion you have to press. down
Looks like you've opened a can of worms. :p Regardless, I enjoyed this episode because now I know a lot more about watch internals....granted a simple mechanism. Cheers.
I though this was B.S so I researched it and I was right it is nonsense. unless it is non hacking or has a chime the consensus among watchmakers is setting the hands backwards causes no damage. The confusion is caused because this was true back in ye oldie days and is still true for all very old watches and clocks.
So, are you telling me that instead of running a shaft through the pinion in one direction, you do it in two directions, you will not loosen it further? Intuition tells me it will.
Great perspective! Just knowing that the facets of the “teeth” are being worn out on each side is mind opening to me.
Add to that; the “grinding” of the middle shaft on the friction fit gear puts things in perspective as well.
Loved this break down. Thanks for sharing!
Thanks for checking it out.
Turning the hands backwards is not a problem as the canon pinion should be properly lubricated with the correct grease.