10k premiums with shit quality control. I was one of the suckers. First NIB I’ve had. I love my Godzilla 70th…but definitely not happy about some things.
There’s a lot of people that would still buy if pros were 6100 and premiums 7600 like when I got into the hobby 4 years ago. Inflation is hammering everyone. Raises didn’t match inflation.
They should have dropped a premium edition playfield with a home edition screen at the 5k price. But as it sits now, maybe 2-3k$ would be the sweet spot.
Costco has a 90 day policy on electronics. A casual impulse buyer will likely rethink an item that requires so much maintenance, as they are bound to find out in that time. Guessing a lot of these will be returned. Stern is going to be the one that has to take back the returns, as that is Costco policy. At least these Costco HE+ include a solid-wood PF instead of MDF... I think it's more about exposure. Getting them in a Costco, will help drive people to research pinball, and sell other pins, from Stern and others. The industry has expanded and prices have expanded. Unless there's expansion to new customers, there's going to be issues with both distributors and manufacturers. Lots of things are sold at Costco for $5k that nobody really needs. 4K 83" OLED tvs aren't mandatory for survival either...
Prices have to drop at some point if games arent moving.. we saw it with a select few games a little while back. Maybe quit stripping games and charging more money for less of a machine
The biggest cost is acquiring the license, my gut tells me this is something that likely isn’t impacted by inflation like goods are. Prices need to correct $3500 home edition, $5999 pro, $7999 pre and $9500 LE. Probably still on high side but need to be somewhat realistic.
Not everyone lives close to an arcade. There’s not an arcade within 2.5 hours of my house, but there’s a Costco 10 minutes away. I think it’s a really smart move by Stern to put their cheapest game there
@@CaryHardy Not if the manufacturer offers rebates. Car companies do it all the time. Dealer provides a discount to the customer and the manufacturer provides the rebate (money) to the dealer directly.
I have two "normal" friends that have proudly told me the have purchased a home edition Stern. There are still buyers out there that aren't being reached. Costco and the stores that sell pool tables are avenues for sales.
So I fully agree with you, however my sister works for Costco and sent me a picture saying they have pinball!!! That was quick, she also said they sold 2 today ?!?!?! I definitely didn’t see that happening
I don't mind the notion of the home editions as an option for a 1st pinball, especially when they were $4K. A bit cheaper than a pro, with easier to learn rules and more fun game play for people who are new. Reliability beats buying an older used game (especially for a newbie). I would like to know the actual sales #'s for these types of machines. In spite of them making decent 1st pin choices, I agree with Cary that there aren't that many people jumping into the home ownership side of the hobby these days and the people who are already there aren't adding home editions to their lineups.
The cost of a Stern Premium has gone up $2100 USD in 5 years. Yeah Covid happened but the only real difference to today is Insider Connected....$2100 for being forced into IC. Why not make IC optional for $1000 less?
I think I.C. was an optional retrofit on early Spike2 games for $200, right? Pro level Spike2 games were $6000-6200 up until Godzilla (the first mandatory I.C. game), but instead of going $6400, it and Rush were $6900. Godzilla and Rush also broke the $7600-7900 'normal' (ignoring the 'special' Batman '66 and Elvira HoH releases). Premium range moving up to $9000. After Rush, 007 Bond started the current pricing structure. I'll skip LE pricing, but its the same trend.
Try getting a new Stern in Australia as first time buyer. $11,950 (inc tax) for a pro. $15,500 for a premium. Been interested for a long time but extremely hard to justify at those prices, especially with a young family. Price drop coming?
This video was suggested to me by TH-cam while I was setting up my first pinball machine (Jurassic Park Home plus) that came from Costco. 😂 I apparently am exactly the customer they were looking for. I’d always wanted to grab a Stern, and at the $4,800 in-store price ($4,999 is only if you buy it online) I finally took the plunge.
Here in Australia i can't even dream of owning a new pinball machine with current prices at distributors. I always thought it would be nice to see a machine being sold in a general store for a more reasonable price. Why not?
@@CaryHardy Indeed. Not being cash heavy I would love for Stern to explore with RND what they could make for a price that more people could afford and are willing to spend. Let's say, how much pinball can we provide for 2000-3000 dollars (or even less) new in box sold in a retail environment? A new kind of home pin that is built to a budget people can afford...
@@Kwistenbiebel100-ns5ko I think it’s an interesting idea but would be a big risk. Think about if you could only really sell a few thousand of something but have to pay to develop, assemble, market, ship, and pay distros just to offer it up. And that thing is a complicated, large, and heavy mechanical machine with a license, art, mechanical engineers, playfield designers, software engineers, assemblers, testers, QC etc needed to develop and build it. Even if they get very creative and can design a stripped down machine with a BoM cost of $500 or something the amortized cost of development + assembly and shipping is just so high. I honestly don’t think it makes sense. Margins per machine have to be in the thousands each just to pay to design, build, and ship them. Now if they could all the sudden start selling 100,000 machines a year or something everything changes but that seems unlikely.
@@colemangreen4191 That seems a fair assessment. If I look at a 1400 US Dollar Atgames Pinball 4k virtual pinball machine, it is a large item in a lower price range and it is not for sale in Australia likely because of the shipping cost. I imagine you are right the risk is too high to RND, manufacter and ship a stripped down pinball product.
Distros didn’t complaint when demand was extremely high and they were making 2k plus for each game. Some distros sold 150 machines on average…do the math. The problem is that a lot of ppl, including manufacturers, thought and still think things didn’t change a lot.
who can feel sorry for distributors, i remember 3 years ago all discounting went by the way side. they were advertising how good business was and RRP was the norm. oh how the world turns, if they are finding it a bit tough. That's Business......
Coming from someone who caught the bug and mostly lost it after about a year, the price for home play is just too steep, I get pretty nuts about my fixated hobbies but home Pinball play is way too much, I don't know what kind of margins they're running on but the price of even just a Pro can get you a hell of a lot, I got back into electric scooters after I stopped playing Pinball all the time, and getting the absolute top of the line Electric Unicycle was *half* the price of an NIB Pro, you can get boats, jetskis, motorcycles, E-Bikes, Scooters, so many things that offer more potential as a product (Granted, mostly because of the constraints of a Pinball machine only being able to offer 1 layout per 5-figure purchase) and *feel* like they should cost far more to manufacture than a Pinball machine. If there's any big crash in the second hand Pinball market expect home sales to plummet even faster, too, that was about the only caveat to the otherwise insane price floor, that they tend to retain a lot of their value.
I'm not a "pinball as an investment" nut, but you know that scooter, jetski, e-bike isn't going to still be in use 40 years from now and selling for a couple grand. But that's just me. I enjoy both worlds but don't feel they are very comparable.
There was a meeting with Marco, manufacturers, and the repair companies at the Southern-Fried Gaming Expo in July about declining sales. It's well-known.
5k for a home edition is honestly bullshit. You could buy 2 great DMD’s or Solid states for that price. 3k and I would be on board but this is just ridiculous.
I think they'd be better off selling Pro's for 6500 because at least it's it's a full featured pinball game and someone who can drop 5K probably won't be deterred by 6.5K.
5k home edition is too high compared to 7k for a pro. Stern needs a promo (1k to get the eyeballs looking) in the final quarter at a minimum but an across the board price drop on pro premium possibly even limited edition would say a lot. They have jumped up hardcore in the last few years to which they may start reaping what they sow. Inflation is a thing, sure, but wages are down and everything else is up like Cary said. These are not essentials of life like owning a car, but they cost damn near the same. So I think they need to drop prices to bring buyers back. Non essentials become more tempting for us pinheads when we see a “good” deal to be had. Think about it , at the rate to which they have price jumped we will be looking at $9500 PROS in 2027-8
Many arcades report that Pinball is a loss leader. The Pinball machines draw people in, but most of the profits are eaten up by maintenance. Plus keeping so many machines running can be a challenge in arcades that have lots of pinball.
Mom can have a Nintendo? It improves my hand / eye coordination! Pinball youtubers apparently have $10K to buy a new pinball machine every month. I don't. I couldn't even CONCEIVE of having $10K for a machine. The local arcade charges $11 for all day and I have access to 100 machines. If I went twice a week, I would spend $10,000 after almost 9 years.
I will say this , I work in commercial construction as a superintendent. My office has a pool table and a ping pong table . They also have a quarter barrel kegerator. They really try to give people an outlet for the boredom of office life . A pinball machine would fit right in . BUT , knowing the people that run my company, they would just buy a brand new machine instead of renting . I get why Stern would be trying to branch out but the Costco’s thing ? That’s a VERY expensive impulse buy. I think if they were even 2,500 they would be much more likely to sell . Anyone that does any research will see that the home edition is not a great value . Great perspective as always Cary !
I so look forward to the day I can afford my first pinball machine at home! Not in the realm of options yet, will just have to keep enjoying our retro arcades for now! Due to market inflation we all have to take care of our families right now, not buy really expensive games we would love to have just cannot. I think many are in this place.
The problem is they are pricing themselves right out of business, I remember back in the day I bought a South Park for 5999. Brand new in the box. Now they have 3 different versions starting at 7 to 8 grand all the way to 13 thousand, that’s nuts. I wish I could get a pin I just can’t it’s way too much money.
I am someone who was bit by the pinball bug after being able to play one on a regular basis at work in our game room. I had a casual interest but don’t think I would have ever considered owning one, now I am currently in the market for a used machine. I do think this might undercut local operators to do already rent their games to businesses in the area and have the ability to do repairs and maintenance on a regular basis
Reminds me of the saying "Go woke go Broke". Stern is so woke it's obvious to anyone with half a brain. The devilhorns in the opening nailed it. Love ya Cary for speaking some truth.
Mr Seth Disney screwed Stern for life. Although I could see the wave of greed already surging. Hey fuck me once…fool me…’yeah, about those TPS reports’ ..it’s a medicated response to the ’Costco Syndrome’. I absolutely know that arcade1up is laughing at Stern. But hey! When they fold, all my Sterns will be worth millions 😂. Greed is a bitch and the new CEO screwed with a delicate eco system.
Stern will do what Stern needs to do to survive... Just like the 90's, and just like Arcade 1Up who produced too many NFL Blitz games and it cost them an arm and a leg- an LLC just gave them $20 million so they are back in the saddle (for now). If Stern can sell machines at Costco more power to them! Yes, I agree with others that the prices of pins are way up there and think, hopefully a market correction is in order or some sorts. Congrats on your NFL Blitz, as the cabinet itself is definitely worth what you paid for it. 😃
I think it's a smart move. No one knows about home editions; the people who see these are (more than likely) not pinball owners and unaware that pinball machines are even made for home use....if you cannot see loving grandparents buying one for their home to attract the grandkids over or little kids nagging their parents after seeing it in Costco then you are missing the point of potential clientele here. They do not go to arcades or bars. Those of us already in the hobby cannot understand the 30,000 foot view. It's not for us. If you're not growing, you're dying. Stern needs growth.
Saw this coming. Moving into a new factory was a really big mistake. Don't they have anyone in marketing to explain supply & demand? These pinball machines are like vehicles they get used till they get written off. Even businesses don't want to take the cost of buying a amusement piece that doesn't make them any capitol.
Absolutely right.. Stern needs to support arcades more.. let them buy direct, etc. Covid fooled Stern into thinking that their target client is nostalgic home owners.. Nope.. there was just a bunch of free money. The good news is that Stern connect brings a TON of replay ability, and I think our culture is primed for public pinball leagues, etc. Stern needs to work to facilitate that more.
LOL! I play tournaments in CO in the Denver area. Yes I hear the "OMG they still make these?" But I also get "There are pinball tournaments?" But the people who say this are 21-27.....Go figure!!!🤣🤣🤣
Stern got greedy, then all the others followed. I thought it was insane that they were beefing up their factories so much as if the Covid thing wasn’t just a fluke. The rate it which they raised prices over the last several years has been insane.
Great video, I think the increased demand during the pandemic painted a picture of the future that wasn't realistic. Price jumped up so high so quick and never came back down after the pandemic was over and people are now spending their money on things outside the home and less on in home items like Pinball
Price is always going to be a disadvantage of pinball. Back when the Addams Family game came out it was $1, 500-$2000 and a cartridge for the latest video game was $40. Now pinball machine cost $7,000 or $12,000 and a new video game cartridge cost $60.
The distros are just like us owners - we have no room! Used market is terribly hard to sell anything and we only have a finite amount of room. Shunting a billion machines out the door has basically killed any demand and wrecked the whole market.
Have you seen/played one? I get we like hyperbole on the internet but just think for a second about the actual cost to license, design, code, assemble, test and ship that pinball machine…then add in the BoM cost. Also it is kind of loaded. More shots and toys than multiple recent pros.
I think the glass ceiling was 10K. Once you get into LEs costing 13K, Prem at 10K you really gotta want that game. I know that I really weigh my options now and don't buy like I used to. Also the economy ain't so great and it probably isn't getting better anytime soon. Those two issues SHOULD make distros very nervous. I feel for them and agree Stern will strong arm them. X-Men won't fly off the shelf!
The business exists on advance sales ro distributors (who seem to enjoy hanging at conventions) and so Costco is no different. They will buy the merch and sell it. Stern must want the cash, has the capacity, and Costco has instant gratification.
Rental starting at 6000 a year to start you are really buying the game. My distributor told me it is hard to deal in new games. He pays taxes on the inventory sitting in his warehouse and the margin is low. Used and trade ins are what he makes his money on.
I’m shocked that John Wick didn’t sell like hotcakes… But other titles have been fairly meh too- Bond, Jaws, and others have not been as good as some of the hype.
Exactly right, I purchased 4 NIB games last year. This year I purchased 0 games and have no interest in any more. The home pins suck and nobody that shops at Costco will buy this machine. By this time next year we will lose half of these pinball companies.
I turned a coworker on the a Jurassic park HE last year. Brand new from a distro for around 3700, maybe less. That’s all they should cost. They were obviously trying to get them out of their inventory. Steal deal for him, considering the NIB market.
As someone with a capitalist view and a marketing background, I see nothing wrong with Stern trying to expand sales....be that an LE, a pro, or a home edition. Costco can absorb huge orders and distribute in a way that no one else can unless they are a similar global giant. I am of the feeling of more players, more exposure if the product are good will eventually lead to more growth. While distributors may not like it, ultimately Stern is for Stern and if these are steps that keep Stern growing, my vote is for growth and not a dwindled pinball environment. Every household decides on what they can afford. If that is just one home machine....it still is a sale. That same person may take his family more to an arcade as a result and that can help everyone from my viewpoint.
What makes it even more painful is watching 30+ seconds of friends. We are definitely hitting a recession... Will be a good time to pick up some cheap used sterns.
Id buy a Pro a year if they were $4-5k, even a premium for around 7k. Im fortunate enough to be able to do it but at 10k for a premium its crazy. It took me awhile to pull the trigger and buy 2 machines just last year.
It is the cost of a car to own a machine. I have one. I will never get my money back out of it. I did not buy one for an investment. However I also didn't think it would depreciate like a car!
I think that Pinball machines are just too expensive. But I'm not sure, if Stern could make them cheaper without going out of business. I can't imagine people walking by a pinball machine, thinking 5k is a good price for a home edition. I always thought that Toppers have a ridiculous price nowadays! For something that used to come with the machine. I would rather buy a cool System 11 for 2k than a new Stern.
I’m thinking about the time a distributor strong armed an arcade owner I know. They asked how many Munsters he wants. When he said put me down for a pro, they said, “nah, wrong answer. What you want is the premium. And if that’s not what you get…” I can’t remember what the penalty was for not getting the Premium. But it was so egregious that he ended up with the Black & White Premium Munsters that he didn’t really want and wasn’t really happy with.
I don’t think home editions should be more that 4k. Honestly though I feel like the home edition belongs to at Costco, I know there’s some people with money that shop Costco in my area and like you said maybe a gateway . Might be the best move for those home editions.
You aren't going to sell Pinball at Costco unless you can get it cheaper than the cost of a gaming computer. That means $2000 to $3000 dollar price range. . . . . If it costs more than that, then people arent going to be interested since a gaming computer is the benchmark for most expensive electronics item in stores. .
They need to sell some licenses to Pinball FX get people playing it virtually and making a profit without physical machines. maybe 2 years and older machines.
Distros tend to rent games out as well...now Stern is trying to get in on that money. While distros are struggling to sell their games... I love buying NIB games and waiting a year for the code to be finished. It's really fun to have your game crash for a different reason every 3 months. I love Stern Pinball. :)
Im new to all this pinball stuff. Been seeking out a variety of pinballs to play in person before buying one. Stern quality seems cheap. I dont think any of their basics should be over $4k
Interested in the 70th Godzilla, but I think it’s overpriced for a black and white edition. Hopefully they adjust prices accordingly or I will just wait on a used one.
Sterns prices are pretty wild tbh! Imo stern makes nothing appealing except for Godzilla! Not even foo fighters is good to me lol! & I think they will try to milk Godzilla til they can't anymore! I'm glad I didn't let stern fanboys convince me while buying my first pinball machine! I'm happy I went with Scooby-Doo by spooky way better😁
How does Stern or whomever NOT understand we only have so much room. Build me an extension and I'll have more than 8 games. Pinball machines are large and just don't fit anymore even for those who even want to still purchase a non-niche item.
"I don't see the typical costco shopper walking around and dropping that cash on a device for your home that you do not need" Tell me you don't know the behaviors of costco shoppers without telling me you don't know the behaviors of costco shoppers. lol
At some point,our tiny circle of pinheads have our gamerooms filled to the brim and will be out of money. I foresee a future of trading pinball machines buz we can't keep on absorbing new titles. You used to need 10k to fill your gameroom,now it's like 100k
i think the pinball market is flooded with games, so why would anyone buy a new game unless its one that is a must have for them and imo pinball companies dont seem to listen when it comes to themes they just do what they want for example jjp with godfather and elton john, stern with john wick, spooky with tcm, those are only a few games that no one really asked for. dont get me wrong alot are still good games but for me theme is also important if im going to spend 10k. example being i would spend it if it was a michael jackson pin not a elton john, a new nightmare on elm st not tcm. and stern doing whatever their doing to distributers thats just business
Maybe 10k premiums wasn't such a good idea
10k premiums with shit quality control. I was one of the suckers. First NIB I’ve had. I love my Godzilla 70th…but definitely not happy about some things.
@@jamess2953 we've probably been complaining together on pinside
@@jamess2953My $13k EHOH was filled with sawdust & not one thing worked properly.
@@jamess2953what issues are you having may I ask? The 70th version I’m interested in & would be the one if I ever buy a new one.
@@jamess2953What did you end up encountering with this one?
There’s a lot of people that would still buy if pros were 6100 and premiums 7600 like when I got into the hobby 4 years ago. Inflation is hammering everyone. Raises didn’t match inflation.
Yep. 8k Premium's I'd be a buyer again.
All pinball manufacturers are really struggling right now.. Nothing wrong with Costco sales or office placements. Better than doing nothing.
Office pinball was how Danger discovered pinball
They should have dropped a premium edition playfield with a home edition screen at the 5k price. But as it sits now, maybe 2-3k$ would be the sweet spot.
Honestly I think the level up your office is an awesome idea and advertising avenue
Costco has a 90 day policy on electronics. A casual impulse buyer will likely rethink an item that requires so much maintenance, as they are bound to find out in that time. Guessing a lot of these will be returned. Stern is going to be the one that has to take back the returns, as that is Costco policy. At least these Costco HE+ include a solid-wood PF instead of MDF...
I think it's more about exposure. Getting them in a Costco, will help drive people to research pinball, and sell other pins, from Stern and others. The industry has expanded and prices have expanded. Unless there's expansion to new customers, there's going to be issues with both distributors and manufacturers.
Lots of things are sold at Costco for $5k that nobody really needs. 4K 83" OLED tvs aren't mandatory for survival either...
Can't wait to get a pinball machine on clearance at Costco.
You and me both!
@@explosiveegg3920 I wouldn't get a Home Edition at any price.
Prices have to drop at some point if games arent moving.. we saw it with a select few games a little while back. Maybe quit stripping games and charging more money for less of a machine
The biggest cost is acquiring the license, my gut tells me this is something that likely isn’t impacted by inflation like goods are.
Prices need to correct $3500 home edition, $5999 pro, $7999 pre and $9500 LE.
Probably still on high side but need to be somewhat realistic.
Not everyone lives close to an arcade. There’s not an arcade within 2.5 hours of my house, but there’s a Costco 10 minutes away. I think it’s a really smart move by Stern to put their cheapest game there
Pinball MAPS . its a app that shows you all the machines in your area .
TNT Amusements and FlipnOut started unboxing games and advertising them as open box games with low play. That’s a sign for sure.
Idea for Stern. Christmas sale. Let every distro advertise &sell any Stern title and any trim level for $1k off in month of Dec.
then the distro would break even...
@@CaryHardy at least it would free up dead stock. Venon has a lot of dead stock.
@@CaryHardy Not if the manufacturer offers rebates. Car companies do it all the time. Dealer provides a discount to the customer and the manufacturer provides the rebate (money) to the dealer directly.
@@rickrago227 IF being the keyword there...
@@CaryHardythey don’t have many other options at this point.
Hold strong people. Don't buy until they lower prices.
stand together and don’t buy NIB games until they drop their prices to pre covid
And also make games at least on the level of Godzilla
@@theroguecybersoldier2629 GZ pro is pretty damn stripped out. There is not one single mech.
@@petetomaszek4273 The building, mecha Godzilla aren't mechs? For a Stern it's got more in it than their other stuff
I have been saying this. Nobody will listen.
@@theroguecybersoldier2629 On the Pro..... Pro, no they are not mechs. Still a grat game even as a Pro.
IMHO - Anything that could get people excited about pinball is a good thing.
I have two "normal" friends that have proudly told me the have purchased a home edition Stern. There are still buyers out there that aren't being reached. Costco and the stores that sell pool tables are avenues for sales.
Indeed. I see them selling some. But it will be the most expensive item in Costco.
So I fully agree with you, however my sister works for Costco and sent me a picture saying they have pinball!!! That was quick, she also said they sold 2 today ?!?!?!
I definitely didn’t see that happening
I don't mind the notion of the home editions as an option for a 1st pinball, especially when they were $4K. A bit cheaper than a pro, with easier to learn rules and more fun game play for people who are new. Reliability beats buying an older used game (especially for a newbie). I would like to know the actual sales #'s for these types of machines. In spite of them making decent 1st pin choices, I agree with Cary that there aren't that many people jumping into the home ownership side of the hobby these days and the people who are already there aren't adding home editions to their lineups.
The cost of a Stern Premium has gone up $2100 USD in 5 years. Yeah Covid happened but the only real difference to today is Insider Connected....$2100 for being forced into IC. Why not make IC optional for $1000 less?
Price of Stern home pin went up 2,500 in 6 months from 3,599 to 6,000.
I think I.C. was an optional retrofit on early Spike2 games for $200, right? Pro level Spike2 games were $6000-6200 up until Godzilla (the first mandatory I.C. game), but instead of going $6400, it and Rush were $6900. Godzilla and Rush also broke the $7600-7900 'normal' (ignoring the 'special' Batman '66 and Elvira HoH releases). Premium range moving up to $9000. After Rush, 007 Bond started the current pricing structure. I'll skip LE pricing, but its the same trend.
Try getting a new Stern in Australia as first time buyer. $11,950 (inc tax) for a pro. $15,500 for a premium. Been interested for a long time but extremely hard to justify at those prices, especially with a young family. Price drop coming?
I actually love my home edition. Have people look at me like pinball machines I didn’t think pinball was being made or popular anymore 😂
This video was suggested to me by TH-cam while I was setting up my first pinball machine (Jurassic Park Home plus) that came from Costco. 😂 I apparently am exactly the customer they were looking for. I’d always wanted to grab a Stern, and at the $4,800 in-store price ($4,999 is only if you buy it online) I finally took the plunge.
@stazna01 good game, just wish it had a bigger screen and cheaper price tag.
@@CaryHardyI totally get it. Really enjoying the pin, but there are ways they cut the price down for sure.
Here in Australia i can't even dream of owning a new pinball machine with current prices at distributors. I always thought it would be nice to see a machine being sold in a general store for a more reasonable price. Why not?
Reasonable price is subjective. lol
@@CaryHardy Indeed. Not being cash heavy I would love for Stern to explore with RND what they could make for a price that more people could afford and are willing to spend. Let's say, how much pinball can we provide for 2000-3000 dollars (or even less) new in box sold in a retail environment? A new kind of home pin that is built to a budget people can afford...
@@Kwistenbiebel100-ns5ko I think it’s an interesting idea but would be a big risk. Think about if you could only really sell a few thousand of something but have to pay to develop, assemble, market, ship, and pay distros just to offer it up. And that thing is a complicated, large, and heavy mechanical machine with a license, art, mechanical engineers, playfield designers, software engineers, assemblers, testers, QC etc needed to develop and build it.
Even if they get very creative and can design a stripped down machine with a BoM cost of $500 or something the amortized cost of development + assembly and shipping is just so high. I honestly don’t think it makes sense.
Margins per machine have to be in the thousands each just to pay to design, build, and ship them. Now if they could all the sudden start selling 100,000 machines a year or something everything changes but that seems unlikely.
@@colemangreen4191 That seems a fair assessment. If I look at a 1400 US Dollar Atgames Pinball 4k virtual pinball machine, it is a large item in a lower price range and it is not for sale in Australia likely because of the shipping cost. I imagine you are right the risk is too high to RND, manufacter and ship a stripped down pinball product.
Distros didn’t complaint when demand was extremely high and they were making 2k plus for each game. Some distros sold 150 machines on average…do the math. The problem is that a lot of ppl, including manufacturers, thought and still think things didn’t change a lot.
who can feel sorry for distributors, i remember 3 years ago all discounting went by the way side. they were advertising how good business was and RRP was the norm. oh how the world turns, if they are finding it a bit tough. That's Business......
Coming from someone who caught the bug and mostly lost it after about a year, the price for home play is just too steep, I get pretty nuts about my fixated hobbies but home Pinball play is way too much, I don't know what kind of margins they're running on but the price of even just a Pro can get you a hell of a lot, I got back into electric scooters after I stopped playing Pinball all the time, and getting the absolute top of the line Electric Unicycle was *half* the price of an NIB Pro, you can get boats, jetskis, motorcycles, E-Bikes, Scooters, so many things that offer more potential as a product (Granted, mostly because of the constraints of a Pinball machine only being able to offer 1 layout per 5-figure purchase) and *feel* like they should cost far more to manufacture than a Pinball machine.
If there's any big crash in the second hand Pinball market expect home sales to plummet even faster, too, that was about the only caveat to the otherwise insane price floor, that they tend to retain a lot of their value.
I'm not a "pinball as an investment" nut, but you know that scooter, jetski, e-bike isn't going to still be in use 40 years from now and selling for a couple grand. But that's just me. I enjoy both worlds but don't feel they are very comparable.
There was a meeting with Marco, manufacturers, and the repair companies at the Southern-Fried Gaming Expo in July about declining sales. It's well-known.
5k for a home edition is honestly bullshit. You could buy 2 great DMD’s or Solid states for that price.
3k and I would be on board but this is just ridiculous.
Well they got me. I purchased a JP at Costco and love it. I want a Jaws next. That’s probably not everyone but they did get me 😂.
10k is the price in US. Here in Brazil with importation taxes and shipping cost 20k
I think they'd be better off selling Pro's for 6500 because at least it's it's a full featured pinball game and someone who can drop 5K probably won't be deterred by 6.5K.
If they sold pros for 6500 they'd be screwing over their existing distributors. It needs to be an exclusive.
5k home edition is too high compared to 7k for a pro.
Stern needs a promo (1k to get the eyeballs looking) in the final quarter at a minimum but an across the board price drop on pro premium possibly even limited edition would say a lot. They have jumped up hardcore in the last few years to which they may start reaping what they sow. Inflation is a thing, sure, but wages are down and everything else is up like Cary said. These are not essentials of life like owning a car, but they cost damn near the same. So I think they need to drop prices to bring buyers back. Non essentials become more tempting for us pinheads when we see a “good” deal to be had. Think about it , at the rate to which they have price jumped we will be looking at $9500 PROS in 2027-8
Many arcades report that Pinball is a loss leader. The Pinball machines draw people in, but most of the profits are eaten up by maintenance. Plus keeping so many machines running can be a challenge in arcades that have lots of pinball.
That's why locations lean towards Stern Pro machines. Less likely to go down due to less moving parts.
I must say, I approve of the 0:52 Killer Instinct ULTRA!
As you were, good sir.
Mom can have a Nintendo? It improves my hand / eye coordination! Pinball youtubers apparently have $10K to buy a new pinball machine every month. I don't. I couldn't even CONCEIVE of having $10K for a machine. The local arcade charges $11 for all day and I have access to 100 machines. If I went twice a week, I would spend $10,000 after almost 9 years.
lower the topper prices
Just don't buy the toppers
greedy stern. i refuse to buy anything from them
I’ve been a big time CASUAL player for nearly a decade, and the Home Edition prices are still not justifiable for my public servant salary lol
I will say this , I work in commercial construction as a superintendent. My office has a pool table and a ping pong table . They also have a quarter barrel kegerator. They really try to give people an outlet for the boredom of office life . A pinball machine would fit right in . BUT , knowing the people that run my company, they would just buy a brand new machine instead of renting . I get why Stern would be trying to branch out but the Costco’s thing ? That’s a VERY expensive impulse buy. I think if they were even 2,500 they would be much more likely to sell . Anyone that does any research will see that the home edition is not a great value . Great perspective as always Cary !
I so look forward to the day I can afford my first pinball machine at home! Not in the realm of options yet, will just have to keep enjoying our retro arcades for now! Due to market inflation we all have to take care of our families right now, not buy really expensive games we would love to have just cannot. I think many are in this place.
The problem is they are pricing themselves right out of business, I remember back in the day I bought a South Park for 5999. Brand new in the box. Now they have 3 different versions starting at 7 to 8 grand all the way to 13 thousand, that’s nuts. I wish I could get a pin I just can’t it’s way too much money.
I am someone who was bit by the pinball bug after being able to play one on a regular basis at work in our game room. I had a casual interest but don’t think I would have ever considered owning one, now I am currently in the market for a used machine. I do think this might undercut local operators to do already rent their games to businesses in the area and have the ability to do repairs and maintenance on a regular basis
Reminds me of the saying "Go woke go Broke". Stern is so woke it's obvious to anyone with half a brain. The devilhorns in the opening nailed it. Love ya Cary for speaking some truth.
Mr Seth Disney screwed Stern for life. Although I could see the wave of greed already surging. Hey fuck me once…fool me…’yeah, about those TPS reports’ ..it’s a medicated response to the ’Costco Syndrome’. I absolutely know that arcade1up is laughing at Stern. But hey! When they fold, all my Sterns will be worth millions 😂. Greed is a bitch and the new CEO screwed with a delicate eco system.
First game released under the new CEO was Bond $LE.
Stern will do what Stern needs to do to survive... Just like the 90's, and just like Arcade 1Up who produced too many NFL Blitz games and it cost them an arm and a leg- an LLC just gave them $20 million so they are back in the saddle (for now). If Stern can sell machines at Costco more power to them! Yes, I agree with others that the prices of pins are way up there and think, hopefully a market correction is in order or some sorts. Congrats on your NFL Blitz, as the cabinet itself is definitely worth what you paid for it. 😃
I think it's a smart move. No one knows about home editions; the people who see these are (more than likely) not pinball owners and unaware that pinball machines are even made for home use....if you cannot see loving grandparents buying one for their home to attract the grandkids over or little kids nagging their parents after seeing it in Costco then you are missing the point of potential clientele here. They do not go to arcades or bars. Those of us already in the hobby cannot understand the 30,000 foot view. It's not for us. If you're not growing, you're dying. Stern needs growth.
Saw this coming. Moving into a new factory was a really big mistake. Don't they have anyone in marketing to explain supply & demand? These pinball machines are like vehicles they get used till they get written off. Even businesses don't want to take the cost of buying a amusement piece that doesn't make them any capitol.
Absolutely right.. Stern needs to support arcades more.. let them buy direct, etc.
Covid fooled Stern into thinking that their target client is nostalgic home owners.. Nope.. there was just a bunch of free money. The good news is that Stern connect brings a TON of replay ability, and I think our culture is primed for public pinball leagues, etc. Stern needs to work to facilitate that more.
LOL! I play tournaments in CO in the Denver area. Yes I hear the "OMG they still make these?" But I also get "There are pinball tournaments?" But the people who say this are 21-27.....Go figure!!!🤣🤣🤣
Stern got greedy, then all the others followed. I thought it was insane that they were beefing up their factories so much as if the Covid thing wasn’t just a fluke. The rate it which they raised prices over the last several years has been insane.
Great video, I think the increased demand during the pandemic painted a picture of the future that wasn't realistic. Price jumped up so high so quick and never came back down after the pandemic was over and people are now spending their money on things outside the home and less on in home items like Pinball
I love this stuff Cary. Great video!
I know a specific distributor on the west coast who sells at least 30 pins a month, at the minimum, so I never hear him complaining.
I just go to my local brewery,they have 7 pinball machines in there ,drink beer,play for a couple of hrs maybe spent $25.00,
Price is always going to be a disadvantage of pinball. Back when the Addams Family game came out it was $1, 500-$2000 and a cartridge for the latest video game was $40. Now pinball machine cost $7,000 or $12,000 and a new video game cartridge cost $60.
The distros are just like us owners - we have no room! Used market is terribly hard to sell anything and we only have a finite amount of room. Shunting a billion machines out the door has basically killed any demand and wrecked the whole market.
I swear that home edition probably cost less than an 1000 bucks to build....Good luck, buds!
Have you seen/played one? I get we like hyperbole on the internet but just think for a second about the actual cost to license, design, code, assemble, test and ship that pinball machine…then add in the BoM cost. Also it is kind of loaded. More shots and toys than multiple recent pros.
I think the glass ceiling was 10K. Once you get into LEs costing 13K, Prem at 10K you really gotta want that game. I know that I really weigh my options now and don't buy like I used to. Also the economy ain't so great and it probably isn't getting better anytime soon. Those two issues SHOULD make distros very nervous. I feel for them and agree Stern will strong arm them. X-Men won't fly off the shelf!
The business exists on advance sales ro distributors (who seem to enjoy hanging at conventions) and so Costco is no different. They will buy the merch and sell it. Stern must want the cash, has the capacity, and Costco has instant gratification.
Rental starting at 6000 a year to start you are really buying the game. My distributor told me it is hard to deal in new games. He pays taxes on the inventory sitting in his warehouse and the margin is low. Used and trade ins are what he makes his money on.
Inventory tax is evil, tax tax tax. Not all states have them. They make no sense.
@@AdamGtr86 agreed!
I’m shocked that John Wick didn’t sell like hotcakes… But other titles have been fairly meh too- Bond, Jaws, and others have not been as good as some of the hype.
Maybe sell the premium for 8k from now on. I’m sure they would sell them
Go lower. PreCovid prices. This writing was on the wall for 2 years now.
I can’t wait for a membership model like movie tickets, where you pay $100 a month and get to play unlimited on location games.
“You’re a pinball playing librarian? They still have both of those?!” My life
I can't even order parts from Stern without an anal cavity search! Unreal how hard they are to work with!
Exactly right, I purchased 4 NIB games last year. This year I purchased 0 games and have no interest in any more. The home pins suck and nobody that shops at Costco will buy this machine. By this time next year we will lose half of these pinball companies.
Which ones did you buy last year? If you don't mind me asking.
If these companies were to allow customers to make payments on the games they buy I think there would be more incentive to buy a pinball machine.
I really hope prices come down. I can afford it, just can’t justify it.
Same here.
It's ridiculous, prices are like 50% too high for everything..
Tell me any topper doesn't already have insane margin at 500$
Should be $3999
@@-COZ got mine for that but no IC they pretty much saying screw the people who already bought 1 you don’t need IC lol
What's the point of renting when you can buy NIB or second for that price.
I turned a coworker on the a Jurassic park HE last year. Brand
new from a distro for around 3700, maybe less. That’s all they should cost. They were obviously trying to get them out of their inventory. Steal deal for him, considering the NIB market.
As someone with a capitalist view and a marketing background, I see nothing wrong with Stern trying to expand sales....be that an LE, a pro, or a home edition. Costco can absorb huge orders and distribute in a way that no one else can unless they are a similar global giant. I am of the feeling of more players, more exposure if the product are good will eventually lead to more growth. While distributors may not like it, ultimately Stern is for Stern and if these are steps that keep Stern growing, my vote is for growth and not a dwindled pinball environment. Every household decides on what they can afford. If that is just one home machine....it still is a sale. That same person may take his family more to an arcade as a result and that can help everyone from my viewpoint.
What makes it even more painful is watching 30+ seconds of friends. We are definitely hitting a recession... Will be a good time to pick up some cheap used sterns.
Id buy a Pro a year if they were $4-5k, even a premium for around 7k. Im fortunate enough to be able to do it but at 10k for a premium its crazy. It took me awhile to pull the trigger and buy 2 machines just last year.
It is the cost of a car to own a machine. I have one. I will never get my money back out of it. I did not buy one for an investment. However I also didn't think it would depreciate like a car!
I think that Pinball machines are just too expensive. But I'm not sure, if Stern could make them cheaper without going out of business. I can't imagine people walking by a pinball machine, thinking 5k is a good price for a home edition. I always thought that Toppers have a ridiculous price nowadays! For something that used to come with the machine. I would rather buy a cool System 11 for 2k than a new Stern.
Maybe prices will finally come down.
@@sailingsvzara doubt it!
I’m thinking about the time a distributor strong armed an arcade owner I know. They asked how many Munsters he wants. When he said put me down for a pro, they said, “nah, wrong answer. What you want is the premium. And if that’s not what you get…”
I can’t remember what the penalty was for not getting the Premium. But it was so egregious that he ended up with the Black & White Premium Munsters that he didn’t really want and wasn’t really happy with.
F yeah, a costco warranty on a stern? Take my money.
I don’t think home editions should be more that 4k. Honestly though I feel like the home edition belongs to at Costco, I know there’s some people with money that shop Costco in my area and like you said maybe a gateway . Might be the best move for those home editions.
Suddenly David Fix calling up BBQ joints doesn’t seem so awkward. He was ahead of the game. Who knew?! Lol 😂
You aren't going to sell Pinball at Costco unless you can get it cheaper than the cost of a gaming computer. That means $2000 to $3000 dollar price range.
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If it costs more than that, then people arent going to be interested since a gaming computer is the benchmark for most expensive electronics item in stores. .
No one has money and this thing no one needs is thousands dollars AND purchases are down? Wow crazy. HoW dOeS tHaT eVeN hApPeN?
They need to sell some licenses to Pinball FX get people playing it virtually and making a profit without physical machines. maybe 2 years and older machines.
The casual person has no clue what a pin costs.
Distros tend to rent games out as well...now Stern is trying to get in on that money.
While distros are struggling to sell their games...
I love buying NIB games and waiting a year for the code to be finished.
It's really fun to have your game crash for a different reason every 3 months.
I love Stern Pinball. :)
Im new to all this pinball stuff. Been seeking out a variety of pinballs to play in person before buying one. Stern quality seems cheap. I dont think any of their basics should be over $4k
Interested in the 70th Godzilla, but I think it’s overpriced for a black and white edition. Hopefully they adjust prices accordingly or I will just wait on a used one.
cant wait to get one on clearance (if it's cheap enough)
Sterns prices are pretty wild tbh! Imo stern makes nothing appealing except for Godzilla! Not even foo fighters is good to me lol! & I think they will try to milk Godzilla til they can't anymore! I'm glad I didn't let stern fanboys convince me while buying my first pinball machine! I'm happy I went with Scooby-Doo by spooky way better😁
I've been waiting for Stern to lower price of Mandalorian topper but they still haven't unfortunately.
They see that big ol Arcade 1up Sandwich & wannna take a bite at it.
But..but...butt...they tell you the economy is doing great!
Yup
Congrats on 10K subscribers
How does Stern or whomever NOT understand we only have so much room. Build me an extension and I'll have more than 8 games. Pinball machines are large and just don't fit anymore even for those who even want to still purchase a non-niche item.
"I don't see the typical costco shopper walking around and dropping that cash on a device for your home that you do not need"
Tell me you don't know the behaviors of costco shoppers without telling me you don't know the behaviors of costco shoppers. lol
I would be curious to know what their financials are like. I am sure paying the engineers and factory ppl is not cheap.
@@rodrigodiaz1321 They have a shit ton of overhead.
At some point,our tiny circle of pinheads have our gamerooms filled to the brim and will be out of money.
I foresee a future of trading pinball machines buz we can't keep on absorbing new titles.
You used to need 10k to fill your gameroom,now it's like 100k
@@pinballrockstar the trading and borrowing has already begun, man!
A long overdue market correction is on its merry little way. Turns out squeezing the blood out of a turnip is not a sound long term business strategy.
i think the pinball market is flooded with games, so why would anyone buy a new game unless its one that is a must have for them and imo pinball companies dont seem to listen when it comes to themes they just do what they want for example jjp with godfather and elton john, stern with john wick, spooky with tcm, those are only a few games that no one really asked for. dont get me wrong alot are still good games but for me theme is also important if im going to spend 10k. example being i would spend it if it was a michael jackson pin not a elton john, a new nightmare on elm st not tcm. and stern doing whatever their doing to distributers thats just business