As a lifelong Great Lakes area resident, I've met exactly ZERO people who have moved here due to fears of climate change. And know personally a lot of people who have moved to Florida for retirement. People don't like it here because it's grey, cold, and dismal 6 months of the year, and still has an awful hot and humid summer.
no that is not the Case, i lived in that Cold and dismal state of michigan for 36 years. cant speak for ohio in or wi but Mi has poor roads very high property taxes very mean and nasty Gov , it was very high taxes home prices jobs that did not pay that well very high rents in the Ann Arbor area. Il is a very high tax and cost state and very high crime, why Wi oh and In are loseing people i dont under Stand
@@dknowles60 Ohio and Wisconsin are not experiencing a net loss of population, both have a slower population growth than other states. Ohio's current population is the highest in its history. Lately, of the states created from the Old Northwest Territory, only Illinois has experienced a net loss of population.
We moved to Wisconsin right along Lake Michigan in the north east corner, on the Door County Peninsula In 2018 from Seattle Washington. The cost of living is so much cheaper in Wisconsin, plus in our rural area, we have virtually no crime, no traffic, no pollution, minimal stress, and plenty of lake water as we love to sail and kayak! Real estate prices in Washington state went crazy, and we cashed out and use the equity from that house sale to purchase a house on 3 acres in Wisconsin with cash, and enjoying early retirement, with a mortgage and debt-free lifestyle.
As part of my retirement plans and also owing to the very shaky housing market now, I just sold a property in Philly and I'm thinking to put the cash in stocks, I know everyone is saying its ripe enough, but Is this a good time to buy stocks? How long until a full recovery? How are other people in the same market raking in over $200k gains in months, I'm really just confused at this point.
Yes, a good number of folks are raking in huge 6 figure gains in this downtrend, but such strategies are mostly successfully executed by folks with in depth market knowledge, And it also all depends on how long you're willing to hold for, stocks might likely tank further, but making serious gains in this downtrend wouldn't be a problem if you're a pro.
Reason I decided to work closely with a broker ever since the market got really tensed and the pressure became so much(I should be retiring in 17months) so I've had an brokerage-adviser guide me through the chaos, its been 9months and counting and I've made approx. 650K net from all of my holdings.
@@theresahv That's impressive, my portfolio have been tanking all year, tried learning new strategies to gain in the current market but all of that flew right over head, please would you mind suggesting the adviser you're using ?
I thoroughly recommend Julie Anne Hoover, an investment advisor who is subject to US SEC regulation. She has assisted me with my portfolio for many years. Look her up online; she's a well-known figure.
@@theresahv Thanks for sharing, I just looked her up on the web and I would say she really has an impressive background in investing. I will write her an e-mail shortly.
I lived in michigan for 63 years. Hot summers and cold winters. No earthquakes. Very few tornadoes. Love it. The more people leave. The more space there is for me.
I left Illinois for Arizona primarily because of weather, but I came back because of family. I’m happy I did though because I’ve learned to love the natural resources in this state (native prairies and forests). Plus I literally watched water levels dropping (I was a hydrogeologist at Sky Harbor airport) rapidly in Arizona and saw the writing on the wall.
Exactly, everyone is either leaving or has a plan to leave Illinois. If you can, you go. I lived in Illinois for 55 years. I moved to Wisconsin just south of Door county and east of Green Bay. You can live on lake Michigan here for one tenth the money of Chicago. The lake makes it warmer in Winter and cooler in Summer. The town I live in is stunningly beautiful and you can leave your doors unlocked and your bicycles unlocked. There is no litter or graffiti. And people are nice and helpful.
Some things worth mentioning about the economic history of this area: - An early industry, at least in Ohio, was the export of timber to the east coast for shipbuilding. That also led to locally built ships, which created a whole maritime system of shipping for the area that's still active today. - The Upper Peninsula of Michigan, and Wisconsin, had large deposits of copper and iron ore which led to major mining operations. Those ores would then be shipped to places like Detroit and Cleveland for smelting and then manufacturing. There's still some of that going on in this region: A couple of iron mines are still operating, and there's still a few steel plants. But this is also a victim-of-its-own-success factor, because the more easily mined ore isn't there anymore. - There's a good argument to be made that the northwestern corner of Pennsylvania, and western New York state are very much in this region, thanks to the economic connections from Great Lakes shipping. And Buffalo, NY was the first city in the US to have electricity available all the way back in 1896 thanks to George Westinghouse and Nikola Tesla using Niagara Falls to generate electric current and figuring out how to transmit it long distances.
@KB-ke3fi They had a power plant at that time, not an entire city grid like Buffalo. Many cities came on line shortly thereafter. However, Buffalo is widely recognized as the first US city to have full grid power.
Grew up in Michigan. Now that I am in the West, I realize how valuable the water they have is. As droughts get worse, water will be increasingly valuable.
As a life-long Ohio resident, main reason for leaving is jobs. The county I live in has lost over 50,000 high paying manufacturing jobs in the last 20 years. Many of those jobs have relocated to southern states Often hear weather quoted why people leave, don't understand that. Last year no snow at all, many days in February and January in the 40-50. In my lifetime we have had one tornado, little severe weather like FL., not months of 100 plus temps like AZ, most of the year weather is great. Plus we have the great lakes. Super state. Some of the best medical care in the world, renowned Cleveland Clinic and great colleges like Ohio State and Case Western Reserve.
@@REPSDirectthe winter ain’t that bad bro 😂, if you want a brutal winter, move to northern Michigan/Wisconsin/Minnesota Sorry for the slander but if you’re just a summer-type guy I understand. Me personally, I like the cold more, I hateee the humidity and mosquitoes, so Michigan is great for me.
@@REPSDirect For the past three winters we really have not had a winter. I have used my snowblower exactly one time in the last two years. The winter three years ago I had it out of the garage one time. Winter in Ohio is nothing compared to some more northern states. Plus, I will take one snowstorm over four months of 100 plus hear.
The Cleveland Clinic, obviously in Cleveland, the Mayo Clinic in Minneapolis, the UoM hospital in Ann Arbor with its burn and cancer centers, Columbus Children's Hospital, Mott Children's Hospital in Flint, MI, I can't remember the name of the hospital in Chicago that is considered top notch, the Kellogg Eye Institute. From MN to OH there are tons of excellent medical facilities.
I grew up on the southern shores of Lake Superior. I noticed long ago, that kids growing up here, mostly want to leave. I'd say 75% of the generation of kids I went to school with, have all left. Homes that used to be year round residences or farms, have been chopped into smaller plots of land with vacation or hunting homes. Only occupied in the summer, or for hunting season. As a result housing for locals a mess, property values have been driven up, while rentals are scarce and overpriced for the region.
it's nice and warm up there, and cooler in summer than south here on the river side....but let me explain the greater problem. Nigeria pulled up a ship in milwaukee and stole all our high speed rail cars. they drop off their african heroin, and have been regularly hauling out shiploads of food; they are killing us. i have seen the loss of Two Feet of topsoil in 50 years, and we are down to inches....no one will sell food when there isn't enough, and industry will be abandoned. african heroin addiction is Not something people choose, it's something the unmentionable ethnicity does to people. all the food that has gone to sub-sahara since the colonization has been illegally obtained, ( and we used to have Four Feet of topsoil ) .... the oldest definition i can find for "slave" is debiter, or thief, the problem with them is their Debit Increases Forever WHILE they are "working it off".....they perceive their Debit as their Profit, and don't ever plan on reimbursing anyone. they breed faster than the food grows....this is a very serious problem. but don't talk to them about it; they get information about the rest of us faster than we do about them, if at all. the unmentionable ethnicity is the unmentionable ethnicity because they don't want anyone talking about them, or what they have been getting away with. that's why, and that is the only reason why. but it has never made any sense to talk to them about it either. ( because then they have a way of figuring out how we found out, and just adapt )
@CyGea is it feasible to buy 10 or 20 acres of land in that area at a reasonable price? Or is it all taken, and NOT for sale? Either in U.P. Michigan or else any other hilly area of Wisconsin ? I am obviously doing other research, but wanted to ask here as well.
A major piece of this story is globalization, followed by the current trend of deglobalization. For a variety of reasons, the US has realized in recent years it's a problem to depend on import supply chains for essential goods. So as readily as manufacturing left the country in the late 20th, it's now returning. And the geographical factors that made the Great Lakes states suitable for manufacturing 100 years ago are still relevant now.
Some of the factors have changed though. 100 years ago rail and water shipping was vital for manufacturing, now only the largest or specialized companies needs rail. Labor is the most expensive factor now, and it's way cheaper in the south.
The big hit against Detroit was the pollution from the years of WWII when it was the "Arsenal of Democracy" as toxins were dumped, spilled buried, burned and generally forgotten about. That is until whole blocks of people started getting sick, which caused the White urban flight to the suburbs. Black & Latino Americans were sold houses "for the monthly cost of living in an apartment" without being told about the ilnesses. And then the new residents started getting sick and starting moving out. Andnnow this abandon neighborhoods are not safe to rebuild...
It is, but there's a lot of reasons to be excited. Detroits population decline has slowed dramatically, the city is now in a strong financial situation, and there's a ton of investment going in to revitalize whole areas of the city. Not to mention the city government has been going hard doing genuinely great things to make Detroit more livable, such as highway removals, road diets, expanded bike infrastructure, and transit investments.
@@davidhollenshead4892 umm maybe in like certain parts of southwest, but this was not what caused 98% of white flight. Highways, the suburban experiment, and racism did.
As a Michigander for most of my 50+ years. One huge factor is the aging baby boomers have their ailments exacerbated by the cold winters and ridiculously humid summers. My mom has lupus and was advised to leave the state over 10 years ago. My oldest niece who is in her mid upper 40s just moved to NM because of swelling of her extremities in the summer.
@@jamessveinsson6006 It's funny thing that Republicans say that but the truth is we lost population in only one census under Governor Snyder and Granholm because while manufacturing jobs were dying and while we were the epicenter of 2 financial collapses in finance and the auto industry he was too mocking the children he poisoned to care "remember that they are just a bunch of poor and black and Hispanic kids that if we don't talk about publicly no one is really going to care about". We had 3 previous disasters as Governors John Engler (tax the poor to give to the rich), Jennifer Granholm (I build roads to cities that exist because I own a construction company) and Rick Snyder (I poison the children but only the ones no one cares about). Three vile people 2 Republicans and 1 Democrats who spent their entire time destroying the state and lining their pockets. To me the jury isn't in on Whitmer yet. She does seem to be the most fiscally responsible governor that we have had in a while.
You forgot to mention Central and Upstate NY, we’re much more similar to the great lakes in every way as opposed to the east coast. Also Buffalo was a driving force that helped fuel immigration west along the great lakes.
I was going to post something like this. I can see Lake Ontario right outside my window as I type. To not include the area in "the great lake states" makes no sense.
Like most states in this area, the laws are ridiculous, the taxes are enormous, the pace is too fast and the people are bombarded with so much stress and snow it's not worth the hassle.
I’ve lived in the Cincinnati area for the past 50 years after being raised in West Central Ohio for the first 27 years of my life. I love the Cincinnati area. Interesting landscape, great restaurants, safe neighborhoods, good people, great sports scene, and a milder climate then where I grew up. I’m here for the duration. We go to Florida for 4-6 weeks in the winter, but will probably stop that soon. Too many people, high prices, poor service and getting progressively less inviting. Also have great colleges, and museums here.
I grew up in Florida and I think Chicago’s lakefront view looks like oceanfront. Add in the fact that the lake level won’t rise and the rooftop bar season may expand and I’m totally considering retiring there.
@@hectorvega621Navy pier sucks ass. Literally just a strip mall and a Ferris Wheel. It’s free to go there because they’re counting on you buying stuff there. Tourist trap at best.
Born and raised in Wisconsin. The truly worst thing about this area is the depressing cold, long winters. Other than that, it's a great area to live in. Affordable housing, plenty of jobs, and relatively low crime compared to other areas of the country.
Agreed. I moved at retirement. I go back for summer and deer seasons in fall. The sun coming up in the sky in the morning during winter has a larger impact on your psyche than you realize.
Texas ain't much better. We have mild cold snaps by comparison, bu the summers are frying hot and parched. And dangerous weather cam show up out of nowhere
As a native Michigander I welcome a depopulation. I haven’t been able to camp in my own state in the summer for years because the state parks are way too popular. I’m looking at retirement and would love to move closer to Lake Michigan but as of now there doesn’t seem to be a correction in real estate prices. I also point out that nearly every person I know hates cold weather and are planning on moving south. I’d move farther north if my wife would consider it.
Lots of building in Western Lower Michigan by the lake. People do seem to want to live in this area. The thing is,......if they all move here,........it will be just like the big cities they left behind.
You’re complaining about a different problem. If people had economic flexibility (or just had money) they could buy their own parks. There’s enough land for everyone. The government is who made everything scarce.
@@matiasishere1487 Anti government people always seem to think of the government as an independent entity. The government is there to perform the wishes of the people. The problem is that Michigan, until recently, was dominated by Republican (some Libertarian) types. So government performs the wishes of their rich masters. Rather than spending the money on campgrounds, they will favor the needs of the rich. They would love you. People already "buy their own parks." There is a lot of land with "Private Property" signs all over their fences. Good government does not make things scarce. Bad Capitalism does make things scarce. Let's have some open land shared by all. IT just seems more natural.
A factor you failed to mention is politics. Both Michigan and Illinois have large, predominately liberal, urban centers that use their sheer numbers to dominate the rural areas.
I'd say it evens out. In theory IL and MI would take liberal migrants from around the country, while WI, IN, and OH would take conservatives. In my experience work opportunities elsewhere, and weather make people leave the north central region. Anecdotally, I haven't met too many people who move for ideological/tax reasons, usually because it all evens out.
Why are people leaving Michigan? Simple... The politicians who are destroying the manufacturing sector and are now coming after agriculture under the disguise of protecting the water supply. Don't be fooled.
While it is sad that many look down on the Midwest, I've always loved life here. People are kind, life does feel slow (but it feels okay that way), and its genuinely so beautiful. I hope more people in the future can see the promise that this land could hold if they just gave it a chance. Edit: how on earth did I end up having so many people responding to this singular comment? If you see this, thank you for stopping by! This is a first for me. Never thought anything I'd say would ever be heard haha
I always felt like folks were great in OH where my family origin was, I am too old to migrate there, but I had great memories of visits there to see family. In summer there was a million things to do.
@@samuellarson8221 Sounds like you're in the northern midwest. Down in the southern midwest spring comes in early March, and it gets really green. But the downside to the southern midwest is it gets super hot in the summer.
@@voidalchemy_stratorusofficial Nah. Indiana is like that too. Once you’re in a place warm enough where it isn’t like that, you’re almost not in the Midwest anymore.
I'm in northern WI. My plan is to have a house in the south for winter. Winter is just too long here. It's May and snow is still on the ground, Temps in the 20s, and little snow flurries.
I grew up in Michigan and I don’t think it can be understated how cold, snowy, and generally gray and miserable winter is. I think a big part of the reason for the migration south is that, as the US shifts from an agricultural/manufacturing economy to a service/knowledge economy, jobs aren’t as dependent on natural resources so people don’t have to put up with awful weather to find good work anymore. (Of course, there is plenty of variability even in the Midwest. Winter in Cincinnati is going to feel a lot different from winter in Duluth)
YES 30 PERCENT MOVED TO FLORIDA WHEN COVID HIT, AND THEY NOW WORK FROM HOME, THEY WANTED SUN AND SURF BUT NOW HOUSING INSURANCE IS DRIVING A LOT OF PEOPLE OUT OF FLORIDA, FLORIDA HAS THE FIRST " SOCIALIZED" HOME INSURANCE OWNED BY THE GOV OF FLORIDA, OTHERWISE A LOT MORE PEOPLE WOULD LEAVE BECAUSE ALL THE INSURANCE COMPANIES HAVE LEFT FLORIDA, TO MANY FLOODS AND STORMS
I have lived in Michigan for 86 years and have been happy here. I believe in the future more people will move here mainly due the fresh water we have. I also believe the weather will warm up some and will become a more desirable place to live.
I believe most people think Gretchen Whitmer is doing a great job - I do. I don't see how not having her or someone like her would make things better.@@jamessveinsson6006
Why leave the great lakes? The weather SUCKS! It's May and it is still perpetual winter here. As an astronomer I monitory the sky conditions closely here and it is on average 91% cloudy all year and intolerably cold in the winter months due to constant polar vortexes.
My Dad is from Cleveland, Ohio and my grandfather is from Slovenia. I lived in a small town right outside of Cleveland for a year and it was a depressing place to live. Abandoned factories was a common scenery so the outsourcing of industrial goods and how it had a negative impact in the Midwest was very evident. I haven’t been there in years so I don’t know what it is like now. I hope it will turn it’s reputation around and be the place where it’s a desirable place to live like how it was during my grandparent’s generation.
I'm a lifetime Clevelander and have visited most other major metro areas in the US. I find Cleveland to be an exciting place to live with plenty of history, culture, education, recreation, sports, museums, nightlife, and fantastic natural areas all around. Yes, much of the manufacturing sector has left, but there are many other, thriving industries and job opportunities throughout the greater Cleveland area.
Cleveland actually has seen a pretty great resurgence in recent years - there's still a bunch of areas that are hard hit by current economy and politics, but many of the communities are seeing revitalization 🙂
@@bobgardin2347 agreed. I’ve lived in NEO nearly all my life and Cleveland has been on a steady rise for the past 25/30 years. Easy access to wonderful park systems in the metro parks that encircle the entire city and I got into fishing when the pandemic hit. I have a whole new appreciation for the lake now that I’m actively using it on a regular basis. The weather still gets on my nerves when summer never seems to want to get here but once it does our summer weather is terrific. The hospital system and tech industry bring plenty of work as well, just different industries than when my grandparents grew up here.
"Town right outside of Cleveland" Do you mean in the Newburgh Heights area or another county? I honestly avoid that area and a few others and it's not bad otherwise
I love the Great Lakes region. Chicago, Toronto, Detroit, Cleveland, Buffalo, Milwaukee, Grand Rapids, Toledo, Rochester, etc. Great cities with even better overall Metro areas. Affordable living, massive economic hub, diverse cultures and regions, but still… that good ole Midwest American vibe. 4 seasons. Lower Rents. And 5-6 hour drive any direction to much of what America and Canada has to offer.
As a native Michigander I still believe the outflow is still driven by our cold winters vs the lure of the "sunny South", more so then job prospects. If there was a big economic boom in say Kansas City it would not have any real impact around here because it's another cold place, and people here are not familar with KC. But ,they are familar with Forida, their parents took them there., school breaks that was the place of choice. In the 80s it was, Hilton, Mrytle Beach Charleston that became the play, that along with Texas and East TN. And then AZ. Outside of Texas most of these places of choice have two things in common, a welcoming tourist aspect making them familar and desireable. Water as a resource? Not part of the conversation here. Simply my personal observation dealing with folks over the last 40 years..
I'm from Michigan and I was lucky enough to get travel the country a bunch in the 2010s, and the topic of why people live where they do would come up now and and then. And yes, weather seems to be a huge factor in where people move, politics being the number two factor. Of course, if a city is really hit hard, like Flint, that will repel people. But otherwise people don't care that much about the overall economy so long as there are decent jobs in their field or a field they feel comfortable working in.
I moved to Michigan from Arizona. The benefits of Arizona are the outdoor opportunities. You can explore for days without crossing private property. Michigan has water sports, but the “hiking” is just flat, paved dirt paths through the woods. You can carry a gun in Arizona without a permit, there is more diversity in Arizona with a heavy influence of Mexican and Native American culture. Michigan has clean beaches, less homeless, but the houses are all old, food is expensive and less abundant and less opportunities for exploration unless you’re into urban exploration.
Actually, for 2022, Wisconsin was #19 in the nation for net positive migration. It has much more in common with Minnesota than the other four states covered here.
It's the quality of people you are gaining/losing. It takes 100 Somalians to do the work of 5 white men. And it still won't be done correctly or in a timely manner. This is the simple truth
0.2 net migration rate, that is not something to be proud of. And is statistically insignificant in terms of ranking nationwide if you actually look at the list. Wisconsin, if you look at longer spans it pretty much is right in the range with those other 4 states
It would be interesting if you'd factor in the widespread availability of air conditioning in the warmer states. In the 1970s AC became widely available now AZ, FL, and other warm states became liveable.
The AC boom was huge for southern migration. It's theorized that the political party shift in the 60s wouldn't have happened if it weren't for abundant AC encouraging droves of retirees to move to southern states like Florida and Texas.
Actually AC became widespread in the late 50's / very early 60's. By the mid 60's, virtually everywhere was air conditioned. This is when the huge growth in the South started
You're absolutely right! I think that climate change is an issue, but underestimating technology and it's ability to make Texas a comfortable place to live for a long time to come would be foolish. People can have either high taxes, crummy infrastructure, and cold weather in Chicago or low taxes, great infrastructure, and pretty pleasant weather in Austin (with the worst parts of the summer mitigated by A/C). It's a no brainer for most people who want to move. I am a lifelong Michigander and have lived in Detroit for the past few years, for context.
I think one important thing to note about Texas and climate change is just how big it is. Parts of Texas face drought regularly, but personally I live in Houston. We have the opposite problem: too much water.
@@brandonreyes2417 the cost would be to high for 5000 miles of people going thru everyone's back yard, desalinization is the answer, just like Israel is doing
Having been born and raised in Cleveland I have to say that the people from Ohio and the Midwest are some of the nicest around, moving to other parts of the country shows you things about your home state that you never realize until you leave!
I'm immigrant in USA from south Europe and I can confirm what you say. Currently in Illinois and I traveled the whole country. Only New England area can compare with this region.
@@nick31427 Midwesterners are genuinely friendly and polite/concerned with your wellbeing. There is a friendliness in the South, but it's fake to your face, followed by mocking you and condemning you because of your surname, religion, lack of familiar accent and your education level.
This area is probably America’s best kept secret . Housing is cheap and there are jobs; you can live a very simple life and be happy. It’s great that it snows a lot because it keeps many people away.
@@dknowles60 THEY ARE CONVERTING TO SOLAR FIELDS AND WIND FIELDS, SOUTHERN ILLINOILS HAS WALL TO WALL WIND FIELDS ALL OVER THE PLACE, NOW THAT CLIMATE CHANGE IS NOW NUMBER ONE IN THE WORLD TO TAME
I had a Georgia native neighbor move into the middle west side of Michigan, but after a couple of years couldn't handle how cold it was and how short the summers were especially compared to where he was used to . He ended up moving into the mountain area of NC/GA and seems happy with that climate range. Upper great lakes have very very cloudy winters so you don't get much solar gain through windows like you do in cold but sunny areas and 60-70 days of straight day after day after day of cloudy weather from November into March gets old.
I'm from Chicago area and yes upstate Michigan is very cold But on other side I couldn't believe how hot and humid is in Georgia and south in general, I could never live over there... I believe you guys somehow get used to it
@@baronvonjo1929 It's personal preference. In Chicago area winter is not that bad. I figured that by visiting upstate Michigan n winter time. Also I will take depressive 3 months of Chicago winter over depressive 6 hot southern summer any time
@Goxy Eagle Summer isn't depressing like winter though, the days are long and everything's alive. Nobody gets seasonal affective disorder (SAD) from summer time but tons of people get severe depression and vitamin D deficiency from northern winters.
I love the Great Lakes, but it's NOT for everyone and it's not due to climate change. The Boomers are on a lifecycle migration to warmer areas, regardless of climate change. As everyone knows, it's a huge population shift so the statistics skew accordingly. Your arthritis, frail health, and remaining lifespan, don't care about the future of climate change. If you live in the Great Lakes region, you HAVE to be able to shovel snow AND ice; as well as, you need to be able to survive freezing sub-zero temperatures for 3-5 months each year. It's not theoretical.
Exactly. Syracuse was called the salt city. Syracuse used to be one of the largest suppliers of salt in the country. Salt back then was used to cure food, no cure, you die. Basically new York in many areas used to stabilize the entire country. Now the taxes are too high, the laws are unjust and penalize good people, the politics are just wrong in almost every way, that's why so many leave and have left. Taxes drove out almost every main business to ever exist in upstate, it's cheaper anywhere to operate business. No business , no jobs, no taxpayers, no more people. Simple
Yes. I was thinking the same exact thing, Geoff might want to expand on his knowledge of history a little more, The Erie canal was huge in developing the Great Lakes states (before railroads took over).
I have lived in Michigan my whole life. Living in the rural areas near Detroit becomes depressing at time but I travel up to northern Michigan as I have a cabin there, a lot and just love it. I love winter and fall the most. Summers are humid and usually i get sick of it real quick. Hunting, fishing and outdoors are just the best. Michigan is a great place to live.
From Michigan and here’s the reason I left and refuse to go back. It’s a combination of lack of job/career opportunities, cold depressing winters that last most the year, not as affordable as you might think once you factor in high auto insurance, heat and constant car maintenance from all the salt on the roads.
@Scott C. If you think that 20% number is bad, come to San Antonio. I have had police officers tell me at least 50% of drivers in S.A. don't have insurance.
I have been an illinois resident for 58 years. I plan to leave next year. I can't wait. I know many other residents who feel the same way. And it has nothing to do with what anything Geoff says. We want out because of the crushing taxes, political corruption, failing schools and high crime. It's really that simple
@@sethtenrec His comment is personal so probably exactly the reason he is moving. And nothing says political BS like stating something completely false. Look in a mirror.
@@jordanmadden7388 “crushing taxes” LMAO, independent studies have shown taxes are basically the same everywhere. If one place has low income tax, they have high property tax. If they have low property tax, they have high sales tax. Every state needs tax money…every single one… BS is as BS does.
Im from AZ, moved to Michigan two years ago. I miss the mountains, the views, the loneliness of the desert, the influence of Mexican/native culture, the relaxed, outgoing nature of people out west. Michigan can be depressing, urban decay, everything is old, people don’t take care of anything, everyone is shy and to themselves. But I love the beaches more than California’s, cheap weed, little traffic and homelessness, the summer and fall are beautiful. I’m only 37 but I will be a snowbird soon, I love both. The summers in AZ are too long, it’ll be Halloween and you’ll be sweating.
Arizona can be pretty, but mostly it's hot as hell for most of the year. And full of crazy people. The only nice ones are the snowbirds from the upper midwest.
@paintup46 The small impoverished towns in AZ (think any desert town without a tourism draw) can be pretty rough drug addled places. Same goes for NV and NM. The wild west still exists in this country just for different reasons now.
Thanks, great!!👍🏼We love Hispanic people. They're not afraid to work and make a good life for themselves. Plus, you guys seem to carry your own warmth with you with your warm-hearted family and friends relationships.🌞 God bless!!
@@jtex9412 oh I will The biggest goal in my life is to become a bridge between Mexico and the US and help both achieve true glory The day when I become an American citizen first thing I’ll do right after the citizenship oath will be go to a military cemetery preferably Arlington and pay my respects to the fallen of my adopted homeland
@@northamericanintercontinen3207 Start a business first and make money, that will help you achieve your goals. Dont stay stuck working a job that takes most people no where in life.
I born and raised in Northeast Ohio and would never leave it. Over the last few years the storms are traveling out of the west and seem to split when it hits Toledo, OH. The storms either split in half or travels north or south of us! We have traveled to most of the our states and would find something we would not like to live with, like fire, drought, hurricane, earthquakes, mudslides, economics and weather. Many of the Baby Boomers have moved to either Florida or Arizona, but I also know some that have moved back because of Florida’s problems. The most important above all is that my family and friends are here! We all find where our heart belongs 😊
I love the midwest. We live in a small town, with low home prices, large lots, little traffic, safe streets, and friendly neighbors. I see why my great grandparents and grandparents immigrated here from Europe.
@garyeckler2425 I bet if you knew how bad it was for them in Europe you'd realize they came here because they would not have to put up with social unrest. But that's changing now too with the MAGA's thinking they can turn us back into White Privilege.
I love the Midwest but all the stuff you describe was not around at the time your ancestors arrived lol they lived rough lives on the frontier with no electricity or running water.
@@BadgerCheese94 Back in the late forties and fifties where I lived in Northern Illinois we had no running water. Instead of a bathroom we had an outhouse.
@@erdelegy I can't say I have a favorite spot, but I'm not a big city guy - so Eau Claire is just right for me. Some would say EC lacks diversity in food/entertainment, and I can't argue too much on that point. Really depends on how much urban versus country you're comfortable with. I think the Madison area is very nice too. Just remember the winters can get long if you're used to a warmer climate.
@@spandecker727 Ehh wouldn't advise Madison. Is it very nice and a sweet spot for weather yes but crime is starting to become more prevalent by the day especially on the East side of Madison.
@@erdelegy city or town? Madison or Milwaukee (suburbs or historic third ward) are hard to beat. The prettiest and most peaceful part of the state is along the Mississippi River in the Driftless Region.
My GF moved from Florida to Indiana. For cold weather and better job opportunities. All those booming southern states are going to implode. Orlando, LA, and Austin are all unlivable in terms of affordability, let alone the weather. The Midwest will just continue to get cheaper and more attractive as bodies pile elsewhere.
I think you missed another driving factor for folks leaving the area since 2020 as I am one of them: politics. The way cities and the state is run, government, whatever you want to call it.
I first wish to thank you for you channel/content. I enjoy it thoroughly. Second, I'd like to add my personal take on why I shall not be moving out of MI. The primary reason why I will remain in MI for the rest of my life(born and raised in Okinawa, Japan, moved here by my father in my early teens in the metro Detroit area), is because of the abundance of fresh water/favorable climate and geography for animal husbandry/mobile butchering business I am in the process of manifesting, as well as practicing and expanding my hobby for woodworking in the realm of livestock housing and home furniture. We all need potable water, food, and shelter to survive and thrive. If/when I can establish my own personal requirements for these skills/services first within my own property/home, I can slowly scale it up to accommodate customers within my own local community, and perhaps even beyond through workshops/tutoring/skill sharing, it will not only help me and my future family but those within MI and the surrounding Great Lakes region. Adding the extensive waterways we can navigate to help facilitate trade beyond my state, I can obtain goods that are more difficult to come by as well. I've always loved sea food, and the great Mississippi River is my gateway to trading for such commodities. Find a need, fill a need. Best of luck to all who read this.
I was born in California and moved back to Michigan when I was about 16 (my family is from here). After being in a place so hot and dry for so long you never take the cold and water for granted. Snow is amazing. Rain is incredible. Being able to leave the house without sunglasses and spend the whole day outside without getting burned to a crisp - or just being able to leave my house without feeling like I'm walking into a physical wall of heat. Michiganders just don't know how good they have it. I'll take the grey skies and 6 months of winter, no problem.
I currently live in Wisconsin and the only reason why I want to live out of the state is due to the USA has a whole and not the state. Wisconsin is a very nice state to live in and it has lots of good people
Very good people. I'm an immigrant in this country and I can confirm this I don't understand what's about "southern hospitality" myth. I could never live down south
I, for one, would not consider moving south. The climate in Michigan is just fine, especially the southeast lower peninsula. I lived in the west for a while decades ago, and the summers were awful.
I actually like the weather better down south. But the people in the Great Lakes region and the general culture and traditions are severely underrated. I feel like people down South and out West are just better cheerleaders for their states at least people/culture wise. But I'd take you betcha energy over bless your heart energy any day of the week.
Where in the west did you live decades ago where the summers were "awful" compared to the southeast lower peninsula? Like Grand Rapids, Muskegon, Kalamazoo? I don't consider the summers there to be any different really than the Detroit metro. Now the UP has the best summers.
I left West Michigan because I was sick of being cold. I moved to Southern Alabama in 2015 and never looked back. I want no part of snow and cold again, EVER.
What about sunshine? In Minnesota (not one) but it's May 1st and this is like our 2nd day of sunshine. It just snowed. Nah, love my state, but this is ridiculous :)
Yeah I visited Minnesota from Chicago and I can tell the difference But on other side check out the heat and humidity on south, it's unbearable in summer time
Not really, it is more like that Americans stopped buying cars since the 1970s onwards. US motor vehicle production peaked in the early 1970s... so did car sales relative to population.
@@michaela.abbott222 Even long after Nixon, US vehicle production and sales rose. In the 1990s they went from 9 production and 10 million sales in 1991 up to 13 Million production more then half of it light trucks and SUVs (commercial vehicles) and 14 million sales 1999. In 2008 it was less then half 6 million produced less then 8 million sold.
@@michaela.abbott222 Yeah the air in the midwest is far cleaner now than when all the steel and chemical plants were working at full steam. Water is cleaner too until a rail road decides to tip a few train cars into a creek or set a bunch of chemicals on fire.
I guess I am a contrarian. I grew up in New Orleans and while I love the culture there, the endless heat and humidity were torture for me. We moved to WI in 2008 and I love having four seasons. Yes the winters are long and cold , but summers and fall are wonderful. I love the Great Lakes, they are like a fresh water ocean. I've visited Phoenix and honestly don't understand what is attractive about 50+ days of 110F degree heat, not to mention water scarcity. Goeff doesn't mention one of the major drivers of current internal migration: politics. People are migrating according to their values and views on government policies , regulations and taxes. If I could change one thing about Wisconsin, I would relocate Milwaukee and Dane counties and their entire populations to Illinois.
The Ohio and Mississippi River regions are not part of the Great Lakes region. Ontario and Northwestern Pennsylvania and Western New York should be included.
They are, just look at the map. He is redefining the term to suit his purposes. Does not work for me. When I see huge mistakes like that, I tend to disregard the rest of what is being said.
PA and NY are considered Northeast/Mid-Atlantic states, and as long as Buffalo and Pittsburgh share their respective states with NYC and Philly, that's not changing. Minnesota is listed as a Northern Plains state. Nothing weird there.
@@Empr4evr Pittsburgh is in the Ohio River region. Erie PA is in the Great Lakes region. My complaint is that this video mostly discussed the Great Lakes region but used a thumbnail showing Great Lakes states.
@@FameyFamous With that arbitrary and ignorant reasoning, then Illinois, Wisconsin, Indiana and Ohio can't be part of the Great Lakes region because half of their areas are closer to these rivers than a Great Lake.
I am not one hundred percent in agreement with this video. It wasn't the move of industry to Asia that started the decline of population in the Great Lake states. It was that the factories and infrastructure was getting old and in disrepair that prompted the executives of the industry to relocate. The fact that winters were so harsh had the executives looking south for places to relocate to. Texas and Atlanta, Georgia became the destination for most of that business. Most of these decisions were affected by how the governments of the two different areas were accommodating to or lacked the will to work with the industry. So Texas cities grew as midwest cities shrank. The same thing happened with Atlanta. As Atlanta grew and Chicago shrank, O'Hara Airport lost its status as the world's busiest airport to Atlanta's Airport. Now that we see Indiana, Ohio, and Wisconsin gaining population while Illinois and Michigan are still losing population can be attributed to one important factor, that is the political parties that are in power in those states. The democratic party rule in Illinois and Chicago has created problems with crime in that formerly great city. Indianapolis, on the other hand, grew throughout the years that the rest of the Midwest was in decline.
O"Hare is still a very busy airport. While the Chicago area has its issues some people continue to move to the area. Indianapolis seems ok, but I don't fully agree with your take on Indianapolis and Chicago. Speaking of Wisconsin Milwaukee also has been seeing a growing reputation for crime unfortunately. My guess if you'd blame the local democrats for that one as well. Far as I'm concerned Chicago is still a great city with lots to offer like Ukrainian village along with other Eastern European communities. A bunch of different neighborhoods to visit and hangout in like Lincoln Square and Andersonville. But yea crime is an issue in Chicago as well.
i think politics are a part of it but not entirely. most of michigan and illinois’s population were centered in old industrial cities. columbus, indianapolis and most of wisconsin weren’t hit as much. so those cities have grown while most of the other cities haven’t
I lived that! You are exactly correct. The industry of the Midwest went south to Texas and Atlanta first before the US started iosing manufacturing plants to Asia. I grew up in a small thriving town in Southwestern and Michigan. The two had three big industrial employers with a neighboring small town five miles away that had two more large industrial employers. After I graduated high school in 1971, I went to Indianapolis to further my education, I was hoping to return to Michigan after school to live and work. However, the lack of jobs as companies moved out of the area negated that plan. I remained in Indianapolis throughout my career, but every time I was in the job market, headhunters were trying to get me to go to Texas or Atlanta. I managed to stay in Indianapolis because it had the right political party running the government, which was pro business and manufacturing. My parents also left our town and moved to Ohio, where they were closer to extended family and in an area with more employment opportunities, but it wasn't as good as Indianapolis, so I remained there. As for the climate, I find that the south is two hot almost all year, but in the Midwest, the winters are getting milder than they once were. Summers have been more comfortable than in the past also. The great lakes have an effect on the weather that makes it cooler in the summer, warmer in the winter in Michigan and near the shoreline in the other states. The real only drawback is that the lake effects, where wind blowing across the lakes picks up moisture and dumps when it reaches the land. So whatever the direction of the wind is from the land along that shore gets a heavy snowfall for about 75 to 100 miles from the lake.
Living in western New York, it would have been really nice to have been included since a lot of what you said about the region is true here as well but I get if you couldn't because including New York City that is nowhere near the Great Lakes throws the population numbers off.
Heh. I grew up in Michigan's UP. Summer was otherwise known as "Three months of bad skiing". Now living in NE Lower Michigan, not far from Lake Huron. We get some snow, but it's manageable. If it's cold, you can layer up. I've been in Phoenix in 112 F temperatures and the only relief is to get to someplace with A/C ASAP. I believe the next 50 years will see a lot of climate-related migration to the Great Lakes region. This is where the water is.
Born, and raised in Michigan. Moved to Tennessee for 10 years. Moved back to Michigan and never left Michigan since. But the reason people are leaving is jobs.
There’s an interesting Great Lakes counter example here: in the 10 years you looked at Ontario on the Canadian side of the Great Lakes grew by about 2 million people and now has more people than the Illinois
Ontario is quite ly to be called the southside of Canada. It's just crazy if you move north from Chicago business district with multi million dollar homes and billion dollar industries. You quickly reach building's and lots that only cost 10 or 20 Grand First you may pass Gary then Milwaukee or Detroit after a few hours then on the other side of the Lakes homes again cost Millions around Greater Toronto.
@@_________. Ontario is way bigger, you are not wrong about that, but almost all of its population lives densely in the south of the province and the rest of the greater north of Ontario is very sparsely populated.
@@soulyv You can write something about Illinois. Illinois has a lot of land in its own way not as big as Ontatrio, but still a decent size. Big enough where it can take like six hours to drive or take a train from Chicago IL to Carbondale IL. And similar to what you wrote about Ontario most of the population lives in the Chicago area as well.
I live in between Chicago and Wisconsin and can definitely say that their are many beautiful places to live that are affordable. The problem is that today is May 2nd and it's 40. Yesterday it was in the 30s. It is very gloomy here even in May. I'm 45 now and just want to live somewhere warmer with more sunshine in my older years.
Having lived in Florida for most my life, I would take a few cool days in May (40 isnt cold to me. Thats tank top weather in Minnesota) over hot ass days in November like in Florida. I guarantee no matter how chilly May can be at the start by the end of it it will probably be hot and suffocatingly humid all across America. I welcome the cool air to linger.
Western NY should have been included. I grew up in Rochester, NY which is considered a Great Lake city, as is Buffalo and Syracuse. All 3 cities have gone through the same history as the cities mentioned.
The US government should focus on bringing back steel and manufacturing to the rust belt area as it becomes a national security issue where certain products need to be made in house
Won’t come back to the mid-west. The Caucasian and African American Midwest working class is no longer functional thanks to heroin and obesity. Unfortunately, the politics of the Midwest are consistently anti-immigration and thus unable to take advantage of the laborers that come from migration across the border from Mexico. All the states that are growing have abundant lower cost labor populations from Mexico/South America.
Yup! If we got into a war with China and we're buying their steal for our aircraft carriers, tanks and fighter jets, doesn't our government see a problem with that? Even if it costs more, steal is important for our national security. We need to be self reliant in steal.
I was born in Chicago in 1970. Lived there until April 2015. The biggest reason I left was taxes and politics. I loved going downtown, till I didn't. I lived in small farming communities, vacationed in Wisconsin, and had a good life. The government keep making it harder and harder to be happy. It's hard to even go back to visit Illinois. I don't want to spend any money there. Wisconsin I'll visit in a heart beat.
The great memories of vacationing in Wisconsin. I could easily move there from here in Illinois Thinking of staying right here in the midwest when retiring. Hate the cold weather but my hot flashes hate the hot weather too!
Chicago in the 90's was my favorite place to play. I travelled there often for work and really got to know it well for an outsider, especially hanging with a Chicago salesman who grew up being a downtown courier. Wacker drive was a trip by the pier. The pacific club out in downer's grove, the whole downtown, especially uno's. I never even heard of any crime incidents, let alone witness one. Walked and cabbed around with impunity. Today, there is no effing way I will go anywhere near there, and I would really like to see Shedd one more time.
@@jjrusy7438 Crime is a fraction of what it was in the 90's The hysteria over carjackings today wouldn't even be on the news in the 90's , murders were double or triple what they are today , peak murders for the city was roughly a thousand in 95
Can't relate! Lived here my whole life and would never leave except to another major Great Lakes city. I adore winter and despise hot summers. The summer in the midwest is already too hot. Anywhere else seems like a nightmare.
As measured since the 1850s at New York's Battery, sea levels are rising only approximately 2.85 mm per year. I hardly think that will be a deciding factor to get people to move back to the Midwest. Edit: I originally posted 0.1 mms/year. That's the variability of the data, not the actual sea level rise per year. I have now corrected the actual sea level rise per year to be 2.85 mm per year. My apologies for posting the original inaccurate number.
@@UserName-ts3sp I kind of ignored your rate because i know from NOAA it is more, sea level along the U.S. coastline is projected to rise, on average, 10 - 12 inches in the next 30 years
Many of these Midwest places ,especially the larger cities have a lot of attractions, great architecture, great culture and restaurants, first class health systems ( very important), many have wonderful biking pathways, they do have winter, personally I like winter, and they have tons of natural resources as well as relatively affordable cost of living. That’s the formula for migration not leaving. This will play it out in the near future guaranteed. We have already seen several people from Florida and California moving in, to our condo complex in Downtown Detroit, they all said they love it, so much to do here, said they wanted to get in ahead of the rush down the road. Interesting.
YES, FLORIDA NOW IS TO CROWDED, OVER 800 PEOPLE A DAY MOVING TO FLORIDA, HOUSING IS WAY OVERPRICED, IN JUST 4 YEARS, HOUSING HAS INCREASED OVER 100 THOUSAND DOLLARS, SAD
@@domcizek , yes that’s what I hear, my nephew lives there and said his insurance is absolutely going through the roof literally, he said it’s more than tripled in three years, that all the insurance companies have left except for the government sponsored one, and you can’t get insurance if your roof is more than 10 years old, so what are these people going to do as mother natures wrath gets larger larger every year, which you know it’s going to do with more severe weather happenings and hurricanes causing more and more damage. It sounds like it could be a total mess in the not too distant future.
I always wonder why people in Ca. who are barely making it, have low paying jobs and live in one of the most expensive zip codes, why they do not move to the midwest and make a life there. I live in the cheap home area of Ca. that is still desirable, and the houses start at 500K. You get the joy of very long commutes.
Lived in southern Illinois all my life and think the state would be way better off if we split from Chicago. Our votes are completely nullified by one city, we're taxed to death, and have to go through a lot of red tape just to own a fire arm. Indiana seems much better...but the grass is always greener on the other side. Our country in general needs more Godly leadership.
If they are terrible politicians voted on by the people then what does that say about the people. As George Carlin has said "people complain about politicians, but we voted for them and that's the best we can do"! That was over a decade ago when Carlin said that. If he was around today he would be even more critical of republicans then he was then. Ted Cruz, MTG, Boebart Lauren, George Santos even trump trying to get back in to avoid prosecution for his multiple crimes!!
@@knyghtryder3599 If bankruptcy, corruption, crime, draconian legal systems, and decreasing standards of living means success to you, you should move to California.
Hi Geoff, I watched this video several weeks ago and I've had time to reflect on it and to read and watch other news and videos. I do find it really surprising that Americans, including my American cousins, have left one of North America's most beautiful regions for other parts of the USA. Most of my life has been spent in Ontario. I have endured and enjoyed the four distinct seasons of the Great Lakes Region, the fabulous diverse forests, lakes and rivers, and all of the activities that go with the geography and climate of this region. My concern in Ontario is; how do we cope with massive immigration (86% of Ontario's population growth) and urban growth while simultaneously preserving the beautiful environment that we have? I am encouraged by how many newcomers to Ontario are getting out to our parks and campgrounds to experience the wonders of nature. I hope we can do it and keep Ontario beautiful.
I’m from Wisconsin where it can get darn cold! We all left because of temperature, not manufacturing jobs and my family isn’t alone in leaving due to harsh winters and big heating bills.
Half of everyone I met in Phoenix is from the Midwest, and left for the same reasons. The increase in salary and living standards is just a nice bonus.
Not mentioned, but worth noting is that NAFTA was a huge reason many jobs were lost basically overnight when it went into effect. Also, until these "water stressed" states you mentioned (like AZ, TX, etc) suffer from huge water shortages, no one is moving for fear of climate change.
Interesting and informative. Thank you. It would be interesting to compare the urban and rural areas of these states as far as population growth -- especially those rural areas that are small towns right on the Great Lakes or areas such as the Northwoods of Wisconsin where there are many smaller lakes. Also, what is happening in MN on Lake Superior and NY on Lakes Erie and Ontario?
Having traveled the entire U.S. many times over, Detroit and Chicago are my favorite 2 cities BY FAR !!! I chose to settle almost exactly half way between them in Michigan. I can be in the heart of downtown either one in just a couple hours. Others can leave, I'm staying put !! I would also encourage you to update regarding the explosion of growth recently in Detroit. Its in a massive comeback incline and becoming more beautiful by the day adding new structures among the incredible architecture that already exists.
Sea level rise has not changed in terms of rate in hundreds of years... CO2 is the source of all life on the planet, Climate Change as it is defined is a hoax. Daily high temps have been falling for over 80 years. 30 years of pushing the lie have made people believe it...
supposedly it's some new fangled idea.Something that was called "global warming" now changed to "climate change" but before that in the 70s everyone was considering painting roofs black due to global cooling and a new ice age coming . They can't seem to make up their minds from polar vortexes to atmospheric rivers . Good thing there's still that thing called weather that changes daily, monthly, seasonally etc to balance stuff out like it always has since the planet started spinning somewhere between a few thousand years ago and a few billion. .
Oh, right the sea level rise story has only been in the news for several years now so maybe that isn't long enough for you to catch on. I have been following this issue of sea level rise for over a decade. The warming of the atmosphere because of increased atmospheric CO2 and to a lesser degree methane. CO2 has been increasing since the beginning of the industrial era over 150 years ago. During that time it has increased 50% from 280ppm to 420 ppm now. Increased atmospheric CO2 leads to more heat retained in the atmosphere and thus a warming average temperature globally. This leads to seas warming up which causes them to expand and that is the main reason for sea level rise. The other reason for sea level rise is due to the melting glaciers in Antarctica and Greenland. The warming climate also results in more extreme weather in the form of floods, heat waves, drought, hurricanes and so on. Everything I have stated is well documented which you can verify online.
@@michaeldeierhoi4096 The IPCC say there isn't evidence for increased storms. The rate of the rise of the seas is what it was a century ago according to the research. Greenland had its coldest winter on record last year, and the deep water in the North Atlantic has been getting colder.
@@michaeldeierhoi4096 You missed the entire point, which somehow does not surprise me. Sea level has been rising for 20,000 years. In the last 150 years the RATE has not changed. If AGW were happening to any significant amount the rate of rise would be increasing in that window of time, but it is not.
I mostly agree but not totally. Small numbers of people are factoring it in, and more will do so in coming years. I agree that taxes and jobs and family are driving, immediate forces and will be for some time to come. Wait until the Colorado River truly dries up one summer and you get four Hurricane Ians in one season in Florida. The seesaw will eventually tilt back up that way more.
I have heard of it happening. Seen news segments where people along the Lousiana coast were considering it. To them they the water getting closer and closer to where they lived, where there parents and grandparents lived. It was like one house down south in the state even pass New Orleans. Some of the people in Barrow Alaska feel like the climate is changing at a rapid paste for them. Certain signs like a certain bird that normally return at a certain month isn't doing so as often. The man in the video talked about how they feel like they have to adapt that what they were taught as kids doesn't apply anymore and they believe climate change is part of it. Granted they're not moving from Barrow they plan to stay at the time of the recording.
IK you didn't include StL in this discussion but I think you easily could have, it perfectly fits what you are describing. Not to mention, most of the Rust Belt cities were developed for streetcars not private ones, this has left a lot of potential for dense, walkable, and mixed-use infill developments! :]
Geoff forgot to mention how the efforts of new generation, anti-suburb, anti-car, anti-road urban planners have sent miilions screaming and fleeing from the newly deformed big cities that consistently rip up the existing infrastructure and use ever more taxpayer dollars to implement their selfish personal agendas that hardly anybody needs, wants, or uses.
AC becoming commonplace in the mid 20th century should have been mentioned as a major factor. That really transformed the ability to live in the south "comfortably". Now in the south one can have moderate winters, and wonderful AC in their car and house during the summer.....or they can get hit by wave after wave of cold air and snow up north every time they have to go outside their house...I spent one winter in Saratoga Springs, NY about 10 years ago and it was horrible. Dark, cold, snow, shovel, work, eat, sleep. Repeat for months. Terrible. It's one thing if the city and/or job market is amazing but the loss of jobs and increased crime along with the weather has severely cut at the appeal of that region no matter how nice the 3 months of summer are there. I guess Madison, WI, Columbus, OH, and maybe the more desirable parts of Chicago could fit as "desirable cities" in that region. What other cities? Slim pickings.
The main appeal is that climate change is coming on fast, A.C.s are making it worse. There simply is not enough water to support that many people in the Southwest and most of the southern states have been doubling down on the suburban growth Ponzi scheme. This means places are designed to be driven around not encourage active mobility options. At least Rust Belt cities were mainly built around trolleys and therefore still have good bones for walkable mixed use developments.
I left MI about 30yrs ago and have not looked back. The state was hidden in gloomy gray skys for half the year and with the growing levels of liberals the state became a horrible place to live. The roads are constantly under construction and full of potholes. Yet right across the border in Canada they have beautiful roads in comparison. I am not sorry I left for more sunny skies and friendlier people.
From MI, moved to NC. In my experience, the north has nicer people and many New York and New Jersey people are moving to NC and you can see the difference. Originally from Mi, moved to NC for 4 yrs and I’m happy to be back in MI.
I live just outside Youngstown and have for 60 yrs. The one thing you neglected was the “brain drain” in the region. By the 1980s the majority of our college grads began moving out. And a large portion of our population is still waiting for manufacturing to return to the area. Wages are still low in the area compared to most of the US. I will say that most of the people I know are good people and try to help each other but right now the area is stagnant. I taught in a rural school for 30 years. When I started we graduated 60 kids. Today it’s 30.
I grew up in Cleveland, lived for some years in South Florida, and spent most of my adult life in California. When my wife passed away, I retired, and it was time to relocate for a lower cost of living, I moved back to Cleveland. I don't need the pestilential heat and humidity in Florida. A few months of it up here per year is plenty. And yes, climate change was a factor. Between the threat of hurricanes and the lack of available homeowner's insurance, I don't want to be stuck with an unsellable Florida property. Snow and cold is a drawback, yes, but staying indoors isn't the worst thing a retiree can do. In four years I haven't regretted my move for a minute. With age comes wisdom.
Now days it's the weather, no major companies would even consider it as it has been brain drained to the sun belt. Mostly talking about the northern areas, the south midwest is rather mild.
As a lifelong Great Lakes area resident, I've met exactly ZERO people who have moved here due to fears of climate change. And know personally a lot of people who have moved to Florida for retirement. People don't like it here because it's grey, cold, and dismal 6 months of the year, and still has an awful hot and humid summer.
I'm from Milwaukee. People move here to finally own a house!!! It has ZERO to do with climate change. Absolutely nothing!
Thats how you do it John. I am also lifelong great laker and it sucks. Don't ever ever ever move here. I like the cost of living just as it is
no that is not the Case, i lived in that Cold and dismal state of michigan for 36 years. cant speak for ohio in or wi but Mi has poor roads very high property taxes very mean and nasty Gov , it was very high taxes home prices jobs that did not pay that well very high rents in the Ann Arbor area. Il is a very high tax and cost state and very high crime, why Wi oh and In are loseing people i dont under Stand
@@dknowles60 LOL thank you for the laughs your idiotic BS provided. We have the best Governor here in MIchigan
@@dknowles60 Ohio and Wisconsin are not experiencing a net loss of population, both have a slower population growth than other states. Ohio's current population is the highest in its history. Lately, of the states created from the Old Northwest Territory, only Illinois has experienced a net loss of population.
We moved to Wisconsin right along Lake Michigan in the north east corner, on the Door County Peninsula In 2018 from Seattle Washington. The cost of living is so much cheaper in Wisconsin, plus in our rural area, we have virtually no crime, no traffic, no pollution, minimal stress, and plenty of lake water as we love to sail and kayak! Real estate prices in Washington state went crazy, and we cashed out and use the equity from that house sale to purchase a house on 3 acres in Wisconsin with cash, and enjoying early retirement, with a mortgage and debt-free lifestyle.
Moved back to Indiana after 16 years in Seattle in 2017. There are many things I miss about the PNW-the passive/aggressiveness is not one of them.
Damn. Life is all about timing. The average person under 35 can't even afford a house in the upper midwest now. Renters forever.
People are swarming to Wisconsin.. a very beautiful state.. you are is a very beautiful area
I love Door County. The tourists keep it alive. So much to do and see.
I'm going back to Two rivers/Manitowoc next month.i miss it. 😊😊😢
As part of my retirement plans and also owing to the very shaky housing market now, I just sold a property in Philly and I'm thinking to put the cash in stocks, I know everyone is saying its ripe enough, but Is this a good time to buy stocks? How long until a full recovery? How are other people in the same market raking in over $200k gains in months, I'm really just confused at this point.
Yes, a good number of folks are raking in huge 6 figure gains in this downtrend, but such strategies are mostly successfully executed by folks with in depth market knowledge, And it also all depends on how long you're willing to hold for, stocks might likely tank further, but making serious gains in this downtrend wouldn't be a problem if you're a pro.
Reason I decided to work closely with a broker ever since the market got really tensed and the pressure became so much(I should be retiring in 17months) so I've had an brokerage-adviser guide me through the chaos, its been 9months and counting and I've made approx. 650K net from all of my holdings.
@@theresahv That's impressive, my portfolio have been tanking all year, tried learning new strategies to gain in the current market but all of that flew right over head, please would you mind suggesting the adviser you're using ?
I thoroughly recommend Julie Anne Hoover, an investment advisor who is subject to US SEC regulation. She has assisted me with my portfolio for many years. Look her up online; she's a well-known figure.
@@theresahv Thanks for sharing, I just looked her up on the web and I would say she really has an impressive background in investing. I will write her an e-mail shortly.
I lived in michigan for 63 years. Hot summers and cold winters. No earthquakes. Very few tornadoes. Love it. The more people leave. The more space there is for me.
How young are you, Michigan has had some deadly Tornados
Lifelong Illinoisan (until recently). Everyone I know, including myself, left Illinois because of politics, mismanagement, and taxes.
I left Illinois for Arizona primarily because of weather, but I came back because of family. I’m happy I did though because I’ve learned to love the natural resources in this state (native prairies and forests). Plus I literally watched water levels dropping (I was a hydrogeologist at Sky Harbor airport) rapidly in Arizona and saw the writing on the wall.
Exactly, everyone is either leaving or has a plan to leave Illinois. If you can, you go. I lived in Illinois for 55 years. I moved to Wisconsin just south of Door county and east of Green Bay. You can live on lake Michigan here for one tenth the money of Chicago. The lake makes it warmer in Winter and cooler in Summer. The town I live in is stunningly beautiful and you can leave your doors unlocked and your bicycles unlocked. There is no litter or graffiti. And people are nice and helpful.
@ Gladys Kravitz but, it’s shitty Wisconsin. There’s barley any jobs. Most of Wisconsins people still have to drive down to illinois for work
Master Gater, not true. I live in Madison. IL folks by the thousands come up here for a better life.
@@Rogerthatidea And like many who move, they will try to turn WI into Illinois.
Some things worth mentioning about the economic history of this area:
- An early industry, at least in Ohio, was the export of timber to the east coast for shipbuilding. That also led to locally built ships, which created a whole maritime system of shipping for the area that's still active today.
- The Upper Peninsula of Michigan, and Wisconsin, had large deposits of copper and iron ore which led to major mining operations. Those ores would then be shipped to places like Detroit and Cleveland for smelting and then manufacturing. There's still some of that going on in this region: A couple of iron mines are still operating, and there's still a few steel plants. But this is also a victim-of-its-own-success factor, because the more easily mined ore isn't there anymore.
- There's a good argument to be made that the northwestern corner of Pennsylvania, and western New York state are very much in this region, thanks to the economic connections from Great Lakes shipping. And Buffalo, NY was the first city in the US to have electricity available all the way back in 1896 thanks to George Westinghouse and Nikola Tesla using Niagara Falls to generate electric current and figuring out how to transmit it long distances.
Galveston TX had it back then too.
@KB-ke3fi They had a power plant at that time, not an entire city grid like Buffalo. Many cities came on line shortly thereafter. However, Buffalo is widely recognized as the first US city to have full grid power.
As a lifelong Buffalonian, I fully associate more with being a midwesterner versus that of the lifestyle of our fellow New Yorkers 6 hours drive east.
Utica NY west to Chicago all have the same accent (Inland North)
All midwest
Grew up in Michigan. Now that I am in the West, I realize how valuable the water they have is. As droughts get worse, water will be increasingly valuable.
Michigan is incredibly abundant in natural resources. Grew up in michigan and now lived in several states, the geography of MI is my favorite tho.
Theres plenty of water in other places without having to deal with the depressingly cold and cloudy weather in the north.
@@kalobrogers235 Not in the American Southwest.
@@kalobrogers235 I would rather deal with cold weather up north than hot and humid south, storms and southerners
People seem to want to leave the northern states, and move to warm climates. Problem is the warmer states are running out of water.
As a life-long Ohio resident, main reason for leaving is jobs. The county I live in has lost over 50,000 high paying manufacturing jobs in the last 20 years. Many of those jobs have relocated to southern states Often hear weather quoted why people leave, don't understand that. Last year no snow at all, many days in February and January in the 40-50. In my lifetime we have had one tornado, little severe weather like FL., not months of 100 plus temps like AZ, most of the year weather is great. Plus we have the great lakes. Super state. Some of the best medical care in the world, renowned Cleveland Clinic and great colleges like Ohio State and Case Western Reserve.
Winter is brutal, period.
@@REPSDirectthe winter ain’t that bad bro 😂, if you want a brutal winter, move to northern Michigan/Wisconsin/Minnesota
Sorry for the slander but if you’re just a summer-type guy I understand. Me personally, I like the cold more, I hateee the humidity and mosquitoes, so Michigan is great for me.
Northern Michigan from Saginaw up, the mosquitoes are horrid lol
@@REPSDirect For the past three winters we really have not had a winter. I have used my snowblower exactly one time in the last two years. The winter three years ago I had it out of the garage one time. Winter in Ohio is nothing compared to some more northern states. Plus, I will take one snowstorm over four months of 100 plus hear.
The Cleveland Clinic, obviously in Cleveland, the Mayo Clinic in Minneapolis, the UoM hospital in Ann Arbor with its burn and cancer centers, Columbus Children's Hospital, Mott Children's Hospital in Flint, MI, I can't remember the name of the hospital in Chicago that is considered top notch, the Kellogg Eye Institute. From MN to OH there are tons of excellent medical facilities.
I grew up on the southern shores of Lake Superior.
I noticed long ago, that kids growing up here, mostly want to leave.
I'd say 75% of the generation of kids I went to school with, have all left.
Homes that used to be year round residences or farms, have been chopped into smaller plots of land with vacation or hunting homes. Only occupied in the summer, or for hunting season. As a result housing for locals a mess, property values have been driven up, while rentals are scarce and overpriced for the region.
th-cam.com/video/bZAr3n3cYi0/w-d-xo.htmlsi=m-EU1X8oSkmTGfcz
it's nice and warm up there, and cooler in summer than south here on the river side....but let me explain the greater problem.
Nigeria pulled up a ship in milwaukee and stole all our high speed rail cars.
they drop off their african heroin, and have been regularly hauling out shiploads of food; they are killing us.
i have seen the loss of Two Feet of topsoil in 50 years, and we are down to inches....no one will sell food when there isn't enough, and industry will be abandoned.
african heroin addiction is Not something people choose, it's something the unmentionable ethnicity does to people.
all the food that has gone to sub-sahara since the colonization has been illegally obtained, ( and we used to have Four Feet of topsoil ) .... the oldest definition i can find for "slave" is debiter, or thief, the problem with them is their Debit Increases Forever WHILE they are "working it off".....they perceive their Debit as their Profit, and don't ever plan on reimbursing anyone.
they breed faster than the food grows....this is a very serious problem.
but don't talk to them about it; they get information about the rest of us faster than we do about them, if at all.
the unmentionable ethnicity is the unmentionable ethnicity because they don't want anyone talking about them, or what they have been getting away with.
that's why, and that is the only reason why.
but it has never made any sense to talk to them about it either. ( because then they have a way of figuring out how we found out, and just adapt )
On Lake Erie the surf is up and no sharks.
@CyGea is it feasible to buy 10 or 20 acres of land in that area at a reasonable price? Or is it all taken, and NOT for sale? Either in U.P. Michigan or else any other hilly area of Wisconsin ? I am obviously doing other research, but wanted to ask here as well.
@@jasonrubik Land by itself, with no house, is reasonably priced.
A major piece of this story is globalization, followed by the current trend of deglobalization. For a variety of reasons, the US has realized in recent years it's a problem to depend on import supply chains for essential goods. So as readily as manufacturing left the country in the late 20th, it's now returning. And the geographical factors that made the Great Lakes states suitable for manufacturing 100 years ago are still relevant now.
YES, AND MICHIGAN IS COURTING PEOPLE THAT ARE WORRIED ABOUT OCEAN RISE, AND CLIMATE CHANGE, SO THEY MOVE THERE,
Some of the factors have changed though. 100 years ago rail and water shipping was vital for manufacturing, now only the largest or specialized companies needs rail. Labor is the most expensive factor now, and it's way cheaper in the south.
Cheap labor isn't good.
~chuckles in chip fabs, which needs 8 million gallons fresh water from the city per day, being built in Arizona~
What about China
It’s sad what’s happened to Detroit.
But tolerated to the detriment to a civilized society !
The big hit against Detroit was the pollution from the years of WWII when it was the "Arsenal of Democracy" as toxins were dumped, spilled buried, burned and generally forgotten about. That is until whole blocks of people started getting sick, which caused the White urban flight to the suburbs. Black & Latino Americans were sold houses "for the monthly cost of living in an apartment" without being told about the ilnesses. And then the new residents started getting sick and starting moving out. Andnnow this abandon neighborhoods are not safe to rebuild...
I just moved back after going to school in California and living in Denver. Michigan and Detroit are beautiful and underrated
It is, but there's a lot of reasons to be excited. Detroits population decline has slowed dramatically, the city is now in a strong financial situation, and there's a ton of investment going in to revitalize whole areas of the city. Not to mention the city government has been going hard doing genuinely great things to make Detroit more livable, such as highway removals, road diets, expanded bike infrastructure, and transit investments.
@@davidhollenshead4892 umm maybe in like certain parts of southwest, but this was not what caused 98% of white flight. Highways, the suburban experiment, and racism did.
As a Michigander for most of my 50+ years. One huge factor is the aging baby boomers have their ailments exacerbated by the cold winters and ridiculously humid summers.
My mom has lupus and was advised to leave the state over 10 years ago. My oldest niece who is in her mid upper 40s just moved to NM because of swelling of her extremities in the summer.
And I thought they were leaving because of Gretchen Whitmer lol
@@jamessveinsson6006 It's funny thing that Republicans say that but the truth is we lost population in only one census under Governor Snyder and Granholm because while manufacturing jobs were dying and while we were the epicenter of 2 financial collapses in finance and the auto industry he was too mocking the children he poisoned to care "remember that they are just a bunch of poor and black and Hispanic kids that if we don't talk about publicly no one is really going to care about".
We had 3 previous disasters as Governors
John Engler (tax the poor to give to the rich), Jennifer Granholm (I build roads to cities that exist because I own a construction company) and Rick Snyder (I poison the children but only the ones no one cares about).
Three vile people 2 Republicans and 1 Democrats who spent their entire time destroying the state and lining their pockets.
To me the jury isn't in on Whitmer yet.
She does seem to be the most fiscally responsible governor that we have had in a while.
@@jamessveinsson6006 they cant name 1 policy that shes passed its pretty funny. Just complainers and bigots
Also very high Property Taxes
You forgot to mention Central and Upstate NY, we’re much more similar to the great lakes in every way as opposed to the east coast. Also Buffalo was a driving force that helped fuel immigration west along the great lakes.
I was going to post something like this. I can see Lake Ontario right outside my window as I type. To not include the area in "the great lake states" makes no sense.
Like most states in this area, the laws are ridiculous, the taxes are enormous, the pace is too fast and the people are bombarded with so much stress and snow it's not worth the hassle.
I'm an upstate NYer. Thought the same thing!
Quite odd, Midwestern statesIllinois and Indiana are all of a sudden considered Great Lake states but Minnesota and New York are not.
@@johnrickles3378 things that have nothing to do with geography of course.
I’ve lived in the Cincinnati area for the past 50 years after being raised in West Central Ohio for the first 27 years of my life. I love the Cincinnati area. Interesting landscape, great restaurants, safe neighborhoods, good people, great sports scene, and a milder climate then where I grew up. I’m here for the duration. We go to Florida for 4-6 weeks in the winter, but will probably stop that soon. Too many people, high prices, poor service and getting progressively less inviting. Also have great colleges, and museums here.
Wow. That's really sad to hear about Florida. It used to be a paradise destination for retirees but after your assessment, it sounds pretty bleak now!
My parents feel the same way as they moved to Butler County in 2021.
I lived in Cincinnati suburbs for two years.
@@TJWinter1221Yep better go with that singular person’s take on something in the comment section lol
West Ohio native here; take our questionable weather away and it’s a very nice area
I grew up in Florida and I think Chicago’s lakefront view looks like oceanfront. Add in the fact that the lake level won’t rise and the rooftop bar season may expand and I’m totally considering retiring there.
Visit Navy Pier some time. You don't have to pay for admission. You can just in and walk around enjoying the Pier.
@@hectorvega621Navy pier sucks ass. Literally just a strip mall and a Ferris Wheel. It’s free to go there because they’re counting on you buying stuff there. Tourist trap at best.
@@venomlink2033 There are two nature theatres in the park. Also the wheel is not the only ride but it is the more popular one for sure.
Retiring in Chicago? Lol.
Born and raised in Wisconsin. The truly worst thing about this area is the depressing cold, long winters. Other than that, it's a great area to live in. Affordable housing, plenty of jobs, and relatively low crime compared to other areas of the country.
If it weren’t for the weather and the deadeningly boring geography, I’d consider staying instead of moving west.
@@venomlink2033 you should move to Texas, you will consider Wisconsin heaven on earth by comparison
Agreed. I moved at retirement. I go back for summer and deer seasons in fall. The sun coming up in the sky in the morning during winter has a larger impact on your psyche than you realize.
I headed for Vancouver Island after years of freezing my butt off on Lake Ontario. Nice in the summer though!
Texas ain't much better. We have mild cold snaps by comparison, bu the summers are frying hot and parched. And dangerous weather cam show up out of nowhere
As a native Michigander I welcome a depopulation. I haven’t been able to camp in my own state in the summer for years because the state parks are way too popular. I’m looking at retirement and would love to move closer to Lake Michigan but as of now there doesn’t seem to be a correction in real estate prices. I also point out that nearly every person I know hates cold weather and are planning on moving south. I’d move farther north if my wife would consider it.
I live in Wisconsin and I like it kind of empty
Buy land / real estate and then sell high if people move back haha!
Lots of building in Western Lower Michigan by the lake. People do seem to want to live in this area. The thing is,......if they all move here,........it will be just like the big cities they left behind.
You’re complaining about a different problem. If people had economic flexibility (or just had money) they could buy their own parks. There’s enough land for everyone. The government is who made everything scarce.
@@matiasishere1487 Anti government people always seem to think of the government as an independent entity. The government is there to perform the wishes of the people. The problem is that Michigan, until recently, was dominated by Republican (some Libertarian) types. So government performs the wishes of their rich masters. Rather than spending the money on campgrounds, they will favor the needs of the rich. They would love you. People already "buy their own parks." There is a lot of land with "Private Property" signs all over their fences. Good government does not make things scarce. Bad Capitalism does make things scarce. Let's have some open land shared by all. IT just seems more natural.
A factor you failed to mention is politics. Both Michigan and Illinois have large, predominately liberal, urban centers that use their sheer numbers to dominate the rural areas.
I'd say it evens out. In theory IL and MI would take liberal migrants from around the country, while WI, IN, and OH would take conservatives.
In my experience work opportunities elsewhere, and weather make people leave the north central region. Anecdotally, I haven't met too many people who move for ideological/tax reasons, usually because it all evens out.
Why are people leaving Michigan? Simple... The politicians who are destroying the manufacturing sector and are now coming after agriculture under the disguise of protecting the water supply. Don't be fooled.
In a democracy, sheer numbers win. Just saying.
@@bigfoot14eee99 Thankfully we live in a constitutional Republic.
yea
While it is sad that many look down on the Midwest, I've always loved life here. People are kind, life does feel slow (but it feels okay that way), and its genuinely so beautiful. I hope more people in the future can see the promise that this land could hold if they just gave it a chance.
Edit: how on earth did I end up having so many people responding to this singular comment? If you see this, thank you for stopping by! This is a first for me. Never thought anything I'd say would ever be heard haha
I always felt like folks were great in OH where my family origin was, I am too old to migrate there, but I had great memories of visits there to see family. In summer there was a million things to do.
@@samuellarson8221 Sounds like you're in the northern midwest. Down in the southern midwest spring comes in early March, and it gets really green. But the downside to the southern midwest is it gets super hot in the summer.
@@voidalchemy_stratorusofficial Nah. Indiana is like that too. Once you’re in a place warm enough where it isn’t like that, you’re almost not in the Midwest anymore.
@@samuellarson8221 I wish it was dry. Humid all year here.
I'm in northern WI. My plan is to have a house in the south for winter. Winter is just too long here. It's May and snow is still on the ground, Temps in the 20s, and little snow flurries.
I grew up in Michigan and I don’t think it can be understated how cold, snowy, and generally gray and miserable winter is. I think a big part of the reason for the migration south is that, as the US shifts from an agricultural/manufacturing economy to a service/knowledge economy, jobs aren’t as dependent on natural resources so people don’t have to put up with awful weather to find good work anymore.
(Of course, there is plenty of variability even in the Midwest. Winter in Cincinnati is going to feel a lot different from winter in Duluth)
YES 30 PERCENT MOVED TO FLORIDA WHEN COVID HIT, AND THEY NOW WORK FROM HOME, THEY WANTED SUN AND SURF BUT NOW HOUSING INSURANCE IS DRIVING A LOT OF PEOPLE OUT OF FLORIDA, FLORIDA HAS THE FIRST " SOCIALIZED" HOME INSURANCE OWNED BY THE GOV OF FLORIDA, OTHERWISE A LOT MORE PEOPLE WOULD LEAVE BECAUSE ALL THE INSURANCE COMPANIES HAVE LEFT FLORIDA, TO MANY FLOODS AND STORMS
Ok but we don’t drop dead of heatstroke in the summers… I’ll take some gray clouds over 90°+ weather any day
@@benny368_ Said proudly by someone who doesn’t work outside in the summer.
I’ve lived in many places. The Midwest is easily the most depressing.
@@venomlink2033 We’ll see how you feel in 20 years when the south is borderline unlivable. You’ll be back.
I have lived in Michigan for 86 years and have been happy here. I believe in the future more people will move here mainly due the fresh water we have. I also believe the weather will warm up some and will become a more desirable place to live.
That if we can get rid of Gretchen Whitmer, everything would be hunky-dory
I believe most people think Gretchen Whitmer is doing a great job - I do. I don't see how not having her or someone like her would make things better.@@jamessveinsson6006
@@jamessveinsson6006I’m so sick of politics I want a 3rd and 4th candidate for president instead of World War Two veterans
no they wount move back
no they wount
Why leave the great lakes? The weather SUCKS! It's May and it is still perpetual winter here. As an astronomer I monitory the sky conditions closely here and it is on average 91% cloudy all year and intolerably cold in the winter months due to constant polar vortexes.
South Ontario here as well, I live in Brampton
My Dad is from Cleveland, Ohio and my grandfather is from Slovenia. I lived in a small town right outside of Cleveland for a year and it was a depressing place to live. Abandoned factories was a common scenery so the outsourcing of industrial goods and how it had a negative impact in the Midwest was very evident.
I haven’t been there in years so I don’t know what it is like now. I hope it will turn it’s reputation around and be the place where it’s a desirable place to live like how it was during my grandparent’s generation.
Cleveland Slovenians do the Kurentovanje parade every February now. It's great
I'm a lifetime Clevelander and have visited most other major metro areas in the US. I find Cleveland to be an exciting place to live with plenty of history, culture, education, recreation, sports, museums, nightlife, and fantastic natural areas all around. Yes, much of the manufacturing sector has left, but there are many other, thriving industries and job opportunities throughout the greater Cleveland area.
Cleveland actually has seen a pretty great resurgence in recent years - there's still a bunch of areas that are hard hit by current economy and politics, but many of the communities are seeing revitalization 🙂
@@bobgardin2347 agreed. I’ve lived in NEO nearly all my life and Cleveland has been on a steady rise for the past 25/30 years. Easy access to wonderful park systems in the metro parks that encircle the entire city and I got into fishing when the pandemic hit. I have a whole new appreciation for the lake now that I’m actively using it on a regular basis. The weather still gets on my nerves when summer never seems to want to get here but once it does our summer weather is terrific. The hospital system and tech industry bring plenty of work as well, just different industries than when my grandparents grew up here.
"Town right outside of Cleveland"
Do you mean in the Newburgh Heights area or another county? I honestly avoid that area and a few others and it's not bad otherwise
I love the Great Lakes region. Chicago, Toronto, Detroit, Cleveland, Buffalo, Milwaukee, Grand Rapids, Toledo, Rochester, etc.
Great cities with even better overall Metro areas. Affordable living, massive economic hub, diverse cultures and regions, but still… that good ole Midwest American vibe.
4 seasons. Lower Rents. And 5-6 hour drive any direction to much of what America and Canada has to offer.
As a native Michigander I still believe the outflow is still driven by our cold winters vs the lure of the "sunny South", more so then job prospects. If there was a big economic boom in say Kansas City it would not have any real impact around here because it's another cold place, and people here are not familar with KC. But ,they are familar with Forida, their parents took them there., school breaks that was the place of choice. In the 80s it was, Hilton, Mrytle Beach Charleston that became the play, that along with Texas and East TN. And then AZ.
Outside of Texas most of these places of choice have two things in common, a welcoming tourist aspect making them familar and desireable. Water as a resource? Not part of the conversation here. Simply my personal observation dealing with folks over the last 40 years..
columbus has been having big job inflows, and it’s been growing at a big clip for the region. granted it’s mostly other ohioans
I'm from Michigan and I was lucky enough to get travel the country a bunch in the 2010s, and the topic of why people live where they do would come up now and and then. And yes, weather seems to be a huge factor in where people move, politics being the number two factor. Of course, if a city is really hit hard, like Flint, that will repel people. But otherwise people don't care that much about the overall economy so long as there are decent jobs in their field or a field they feel comfortable working in.
I moved to Michigan from Arizona. The benefits of Arizona are the outdoor opportunities. You can explore for days without crossing private property. Michigan has water sports, but the “hiking” is just flat, paved dirt paths through the woods. You can carry a gun in Arizona without a permit, there is more diversity in Arizona with a heavy influence of Mexican and Native American culture. Michigan has clean beaches, less homeless, but the houses are all old, food is expensive and less abundant and less opportunities for exploration unless you’re into urban exploration.
Totally agree and it seems to be getting colder, not warmer.
YES, AS THE BIRTH RATE SHRINKS, RETIRED PEOPLE ARE MOVING TO FLORIDA AND ARIZONA AND THE SOUTHWEST,
Actually, for 2022, Wisconsin was #19 in the nation for net positive migration. It has much more in common with Minnesota than the other four states covered here.
I'm wondering if he'll ever do updates on his videos to check back in on trends he called out earlier. I'd definitely watch them!
It's the quality of people you are gaining/losing. It takes 100 Somalians to do the work of 5 white men. And it still won't be done correctly or in a timely manner. This is the simple truth
Its because Wisconsin has kept bat crazy democraps in check, unlike IL and MN
It's probably just people fleeing the blue states before shoplifting becomes legal, taxes skyrocket, and homeless junkies poop in the street.
0.2 net migration rate, that is not something to be proud of. And is statistically insignificant in terms of ranking nationwide if you actually look at the list. Wisconsin, if you look at longer spans it pretty much is right in the range with those other 4 states
It would be interesting if you'd factor in the widespread availability of air conditioning in the warmer states. In the 1970s AC became widely available now AZ, FL, and other warm states became liveable.
The AC boom was huge for southern migration. It's theorized that the political party shift in the 60s wouldn't have happened if it weren't for abundant AC encouraging droves of retirees to move to southern states like Florida and Texas.
Actually AC became widespread in the late 50's / very early 60's. By the mid 60's, virtually everywhere was air conditioned. This is when the huge growth in the South started
That's not part of the contemporary trends, which are the point of the video.
You're absolutely right! I think that climate change is an issue, but underestimating technology and it's ability to make Texas a comfortable place to live for a long time to come would be foolish. People can have either high taxes, crummy infrastructure, and cold weather in Chicago or low taxes, great infrastructure, and pretty pleasant weather in Austin (with the worst parts of the summer mitigated by A/C). It's a no brainer for most people who want to move. I am a lifelong Michigander and have lived in Detroit for the past few years, for context.
Cold climate heat pumps that are being developed to work efficiently to -15 degrees F will be a boon to the colder northern states.
I think one important thing to note about Texas and climate change is just how big it is. Parts of Texas face drought regularly, but personally I live in Houston. We have the opposite problem: too much water.
YES, HOUSTON IS IN A BOWL , SO IT FLOODS
Houston is probably the worst big city in North America to live in.
send some of that water to california?
@@jtex9412 you ever been here? Yes, Houston is terrible. Don't come here. Continue to tell your friends and neighbors. Thank you
@@brandonreyes2417 the cost would be to high for 5000 miles of people going thru everyone's back yard, desalinization is the answer, just like Israel is doing
Having been born and raised in Cleveland I have to say that the people from Ohio and the Midwest are some of the nicest around, moving to other parts of the country shows you things about your home state that you never realize until you leave!
From Cleveland and I totally agree. Other parts of the country are noticeably less friendly.
I like my people a little nasty because it’s real
@@RoCK3rAD 😂😂😂 just a lil bit
I'm immigrant in USA from south Europe and I can confirm what you say. Currently in Illinois and I traveled the whole country. Only New England area can compare with this region.
@@nick31427 Midwesterners are genuinely friendly and polite/concerned with your wellbeing. There is a friendliness in the South, but it's fake to your face, followed by mocking you and condemning you because of your surname, religion, lack of familiar accent and your education level.
I grew up in milwaukee wisconsin A couple blocks from lake Michigan We have a beautiful State
This area is probably America’s best kept secret . Housing is cheap and there are jobs; you can live a very simple life and be happy. It’s great that it snows a lot because it keeps many people away.
A LOT OF PEOPLE LOVE SNOW AND SNOW MOBILES,
wrong, if there were jobs there you would not be closeing down Power Plants
@@dknowles60 THEY ARE CONVERTING TO SOLAR FIELDS AND WIND FIELDS, SOUTHERN ILLINOILS HAS WALL TO WALL WIND FIELDS ALL OVER THE PLACE, NOW THAT CLIMATE CHANGE IS NOW NUMBER ONE IN THE WORLD TO TAME
@Scott C. Good, we don't need you here
Yes!!
I had a Georgia native neighbor move into the middle west side of Michigan, but after a couple of years couldn't handle how cold it was and how short the summers were especially compared to where he was used to . He ended up moving into the mountain area of NC/GA and seems happy with that climate range. Upper great lakes have very very cloudy winters so you don't get much solar gain through windows like you do in cold but sunny areas and 60-70 days of straight day after day after day of cloudy weather from November into March gets old.
I'm from Chicago area and yes upstate Michigan is very cold
But on other side I couldn't believe how hot and humid is in Georgia and south in general, I could never live over there... I believe you guys somehow get used to it
Indianapolis and Columbus are not even that cold, that's why they are still growing
@@goxyeagle8446 You don't. But I'll take humidity over the depressing death look of winter every time. Winter is the worst thing in existence
@@baronvonjo1929 It's personal preference. In Chicago area winter is not that bad. I figured that by visiting upstate Michigan n winter time.
Also I will take depressive 3 months of Chicago winter over depressive 6 hot southern summer any time
@Goxy Eagle Summer isn't depressing like winter though, the days are long and everything's alive.
Nobody gets seasonal affective disorder (SAD) from summer time but tons of people get severe depression and vitamin D deficiency from northern winters.
I love the Great Lakes, but it's NOT for everyone and it's not due to climate change. The Boomers are on a lifecycle migration to warmer areas, regardless of climate change. As everyone knows, it's a huge population shift so the statistics skew accordingly. Your arthritis, frail health, and remaining lifespan, don't care about the future of climate change. If you live in the Great Lakes region, you HAVE to be able to shovel snow AND ice; as well as, you need to be able to survive freezing sub-zero temperatures for 3-5 months each year. It's not theoretical.
It’s way too cold for me. I have a medical issue and had to move south after years in upstate NY.
Would have expected a mention of the Erie Canal and how it help drive growth in the mid-west, and helped NY get big
I got a donkey and her name is Sal,
Fifteen miles on the Erie Canal,
Low bridge, everybody down!
Fifteen miles on the Erie Canal! 🎶
Exactly. Syracuse was called the salt city. Syracuse used to be one of the largest suppliers of salt in the country. Salt back then was used to cure food, no cure, you die. Basically new York in many areas used to stabilize the entire country. Now the taxes are too high, the laws are unjust and penalize good people, the politics are just wrong in almost every way, that's why so many leave and have left. Taxes drove out almost every main business to ever exist in upstate, it's cheaper anywhere to operate business. No business , no jobs, no taxpayers, no more people. Simple
Yes. I was thinking the same exact thing, Geoff might want to expand on his knowledge of history a little more, The Erie canal was huge in developing the Great Lakes states (before railroads took over).
Many seniors leave this area because hundreds of seniors die every winter while shoveling snow. Lake effect snow is usually wetter and heavier.
nice lie
I have lived in Michigan my whole life. Living in the rural areas near Detroit becomes depressing at time but I travel up to northern Michigan as I have a cabin there, a lot and just love it. I love winter and fall the most. Summers are humid and usually i get sick of it real quick. Hunting, fishing and outdoors are just the best. Michigan is a great place to live.
But in summer there are lots of music festivals like European dance music and djs
Mosquitoes in summer very bad
On your video map you forgot to highlight both New York and Minnesota which are still Great Lake states. Minnesota on Lake Superior.
@Mr. Shadow lol and redesign the border ports
Don’t tell everyone how great Mich is they might move here.
From Michigan and here’s the reason I left and refuse to go back. It’s a combination of lack of job/career opportunities, cold depressing winters that last most the year, not as affordable as you might think once you factor in high auto insurance, heat and constant car maintenance from all the salt on the roads.
and cost of pot holes
@Scott C. If you think that 20% number is bad, come to San Antonio. I have had police officers tell me at least 50% of drivers in S.A. don't have insurance.
Constant car repair? No way car insurance is very resonable where you get your info?
Add very high property Taxes
I have been an illinois resident for 58 years. I plan to leave next year. I can't wait. I know many other residents who feel the same way. And it has nothing to do with what anything Geoff says. We want out because of the crushing taxes, political corruption, failing schools and high crime. It's really that simple
Where are you moving to?
James’s comment is simply political BS. He’s probably gonna move to Florida where they are not even allowed to teach children.
@@sethtenrec His comment is personal so probably exactly the reason he is moving. And nothing says political BS like stating something completely false. Look in a mirror.
@@jordanmadden7388 “crushing taxes” LMAO, independent studies have shown taxes are basically the same everywhere. If one place has low income tax, they have high property tax. If they have low property tax, they have high sales tax. Every state needs tax money…every single one…
BS is as BS does.
You are simply wrong, my friend. @@sethtenrec
Im from AZ, moved to Michigan two years ago. I miss the mountains, the views, the loneliness of the desert, the influence of Mexican/native culture, the relaxed, outgoing nature of people out west. Michigan can be depressing, urban decay, everything is old, people don’t take care of anything, everyone is shy and to themselves. But I love the beaches more than California’s, cheap weed, little traffic and homelessness, the summer and fall are beautiful. I’m only 37 but I will be a snowbird soon, I love both. The summers in AZ are too long, it’ll be Halloween and you’ll be sweating.
I'm 37 and from Toledo. Been in Arizona since 2009. Wouldn't mind being a snowbird either.
Arizona can be pretty, but mostly it's hot as hell for most of the year. And full of crazy people. The only nice ones are the snowbirds from the upper midwest.
Loved my time in Arizona. Would move there from Chicago any day of the week. Only reason I don’t is because it’s gotten stupid expensive.
@@voxveritas333 I’d disagree. Unless you’re just specifically talking about Phoenix, then yes you’re right lol. Phoenix is wild.
@paintup46 The small impoverished towns in AZ (think any desert town without a tourism draw) can be pretty rough drug addled places. Same goes for NV and NM. The wild west still exists in this country just for different reasons now.
I’m Mexican but I believe in the Great Lakes region and it’s people
I’ll help y’all to revive it
Thanks, great!!👍🏼We love Hispanic people. They're not afraid to work and make a good life for themselves. Plus, you guys seem to carry your own warmth with you with your warm-hearted family and friends relationships.🌞 God bless!!
@@walterscott2286 God bless you too very much man we always strive to be warmth and hardworking
how about you fix Mexico
@@jtex9412 oh I will
The biggest goal in my life is to become a bridge between Mexico and the US and help both achieve true glory
The day when I become an American citizen first thing I’ll do right after the citizenship oath will be go to a military cemetery preferably Arlington and pay my respects to the fallen of my adopted homeland
@@northamericanintercontinen3207 Start a business first and make money, that will help you achieve your goals. Dont stay stuck working a job that takes most people no where in life.
I born and raised in Northeast Ohio and would never leave it. Over the last few years the storms are traveling out of the west and seem to split when it hits Toledo, OH. The storms either split in half or travels north or south of us! We have traveled to most of the our states and would find something we would not like to live with, like fire, drought, hurricane, earthquakes, mudslides, economics and weather. Many of the Baby Boomers have moved to either Florida or Arizona, but I also know some that have moved back because of Florida’s problems. The most important above all is that my family and friends are here! We all find where our heart belongs 😊
From Toledo and I like it here.. I have a decent job in Maumee..low cost of living
The 6 months of doom and gloom in Michigan are unbearable.
LOL
The side effects of selling out your own country for cheap goods
Absolutely Correct!
Gov Whitmer is a big reason people are leaving Michigan
You are correct. I agree. Gov Whitmer is a big reason why people are leaving Michigan.
yea
BS that maga stupid
I love the midwest. We live in a small town, with low home prices, large lots, little traffic, safe streets, and friendly neighbors. I see why my great grandparents and grandparents immigrated here from Europe.
@garyeckler2425 I bet if you knew how bad it was for them in Europe you'd realize they came here because they would not have to put up with social unrest. But that's changing now too with the MAGA's thinking they can turn us back into White Privilege.
I love the Midwest but all the stuff you describe was not around at the time your ancestors arrived lol they lived rough lives on the frontier with no electricity or running water.
@@BadgerCheese94 Back in the late forties and fifties where I lived in Northern Illinois we had no running water. Instead of a bathroom we had an outhouse.
where are the Low prices, i have yet to see then
I’ve lived in Wisconsin all my life, and I’ve spent time in practically every other state in the nation. I’ll gladly end my days in Wisconsin.
@@erdelegy I can't say I have a favorite spot, but I'm not a big city guy - so Eau Claire is just right for me. Some would say EC lacks diversity in food/entertainment, and I can't argue too much on that point. Really depends on how much urban versus country you're comfortable with. I think the Madison area is very nice too. Just remember the winters can get long if you're used to a warmer climate.
@@spandecker727 hello from Menomonie!
@@spandecker727 Ehh wouldn't advise Madison. Is it very nice and a sweet spot for weather yes but crime is starting to become more prevalent by the day especially on the East side of Madison.
@@erdelegy city or town? Madison or Milwaukee (suburbs or historic third ward) are hard to beat. The prettiest and most peaceful part of the state is along the Mississippi River in the Driftless Region.
@@spandecker727 I imagine you have a lot of eclairs in the bakeries.
My GF moved from Florida to Indiana. For cold weather and better job opportunities.
All those booming southern states are going to implode. Orlando, LA, and Austin are all unlivable in terms of affordability, let alone the weather. The Midwest will just continue to get cheaper and more attractive as bodies pile elsewhere.
I think you missed another driving factor for folks leaving the area since 2020 as I am one of them: politics. The way cities and the state is run, government, whatever you want to call it.
I first wish to thank you for you channel/content. I enjoy it thoroughly.
Second, I'd like to add my personal take on why I shall not be moving out of MI. The primary reason why I will remain in MI for the rest of my life(born and raised in Okinawa, Japan, moved here by my father in my early teens in the metro Detroit area), is because of the abundance of fresh water/favorable climate and geography for animal husbandry/mobile butchering business I am in the process of manifesting, as well as practicing and expanding my hobby for woodworking in the realm of livestock housing and home furniture. We all need potable water, food, and shelter to survive and thrive. If/when I can establish my own personal requirements for these skills/services first within my own property/home, I can slowly scale it up to accommodate customers within my own local community, and perhaps even beyond through workshops/tutoring/skill sharing, it will not only help me and my future family but those within MI and the surrounding Great Lakes region. Adding the extensive waterways we can navigate to help facilitate trade beyond my state, I can obtain goods that are more difficult to come by as well. I've always loved sea food, and the great Mississippi River is my gateway to trading for such commodities. Find a need, fill a need. Best of luck to all who read this.
I was born in California and moved back to Michigan when I was about 16 (my family is from here). After being in a place so hot and dry for so long you never take the cold and water for granted. Snow is amazing. Rain is incredible. Being able to leave the house without sunglasses and spend the whole day outside without getting burned to a crisp - or just being able to leave my house without feeling like I'm walking into a physical wall of heat. Michiganders just don't know how good they have it. I'll take the grey skies and 6 months of winter, no problem.
One of the major reasons people leave the great lakes has nothing to do with weather or jobs. It has to do with politics.
I currently live in Wisconsin and the only reason why I want to live out of the state is due to the USA has a whole and not the state. Wisconsin is a very nice state to live in and it has lots of good people
Lol 😂
Very good people. I'm an immigrant in this country and I can confirm this
I don't understand what's about "southern hospitality" myth. I could never live down south
I, for one, would not consider moving south. The climate in Michigan is just fine, especially the southeast lower peninsula. I lived in the west for a while decades ago, and the summers were awful.
I actually like the weather better down south. But the people in the Great Lakes region and the general culture and traditions are severely underrated. I feel like people down South and out West are just better cheerleaders for their states at least people/culture wise. But I'd take you betcha energy over bless your heart energy any day of the week.
Where in the west did you live decades ago where the summers were "awful" compared to the southeast lower peninsula? Like Grand Rapids, Muskegon, Kalamazoo? I don't consider the summers there to be any different really than the Detroit metro. Now the UP has the best summers.
Summer in Georgia or Florida is like living in a sauna. Arizona is like living inside of a f oven year round
@@jandrew1994 I was refering to the western united states, specifically Nevada.
I left West Michigan because I was sick of being cold. I moved to Southern Alabama in 2015 and never looked back. I want no part of snow and cold again, EVER.
What about sunshine? In Minnesota (not one) but it's May 1st and this is like our 2nd day of sunshine. It just snowed. Nah, love my state, but this is ridiculous :)
Well next few years should be warmer, we just finished a 3 year La Niña anomaly
Increased heat is linked to crime
Yeah I visited Minnesota from Chicago and I can tell the difference
But on other side check out the heat and humidity on south, it's unbearable in summer time
@@PolarisAb WTF are you talking about? Minnesota has one of the most robust jobs markets in the country...lol.
I am always fascinated by the US Industrial boom until the 1970's idea for outsourcing.
The Nixon administration signed the EPA into existence.
They not only exported manufacturing dominance and jobs, but the pollution as well.
Automation was a bigger hit to industry then outsourcing.
Not really, it is more like that Americans stopped buying cars since the 1970s onwards.
US motor vehicle production peaked in the early 1970s... so did car sales relative to population.
@@michaela.abbott222 Even long after Nixon, US vehicle production and sales rose.
In the 1990s they went from 9 production and 10 million sales in 1991 up to
13 Million production more then half of it light trucks and SUVs (commercial vehicles) and 14 million sales 1999.
In 2008 it was less then half
6 million produced less then 8 million sold.
@@michaela.abbott222 Yeah the air in the midwest is far cleaner now than when all the steel and chemical plants were working at full steam. Water is cleaner too until a rail road decides to tip a few train cars into a creek or set a bunch of chemicals on fire.
I guess I am a contrarian. I grew up in New Orleans and while I love the culture there, the endless heat and humidity were torture for me. We moved to WI in 2008 and I love having four seasons. Yes the winters are long and cold , but summers and fall are wonderful. I love the Great Lakes, they are like a fresh water ocean. I've visited Phoenix and honestly don't understand what is attractive about 50+ days of 110F degree heat, not to mention water scarcity. Goeff doesn't mention one of the major drivers of current internal migration: politics. People are migrating according to their values and views on government policies , regulations and taxes. If I could change one thing about Wisconsin, I would relocate Milwaukee and Dane counties and their entire populations to Illinois.
Lifelong Wisconsinite. Will never leave.Nothing better sitting on a bucket on a frozen lake ice fishing.
Lived most of my life in Michigan, Wisconsin and Minnesota. I think of MN, PA and NY as Great Lake states too.
The Ohio and Mississippi River regions are not part of the Great Lakes region. Ontario and Northwestern Pennsylvania and Western New York should be included.
They are, just look at the map. He is redefining the term to suit his purposes. Does not work for me. When I see huge mistakes like that, I tend to disregard the rest of what is being said.
PA and NY are considered Northeast/Mid-Atlantic states, and as long as Buffalo and Pittsburgh share their respective states with NYC and Philly, that's not changing.
Minnesota is listed as a Northern Plains state. Nothing weird there.
@@Empr4evr Pittsburgh is in the Ohio River region. Erie PA is in the Great Lakes region. My complaint is that this video mostly discussed the Great Lakes region but used a thumbnail showing Great Lakes states.
@@FameyFamous With that arbitrary and ignorant reasoning, then Illinois, Wisconsin, Indiana and Ohio can't be part of the Great Lakes region because half of their areas are closer to these rivers than a Great Lake.
Minnesota is my home land 10,000 lakes…we get a lake home in Wisconsin to retire ….damn nice living.
I am not one hundred percent in agreement with this video. It wasn't the move of industry to Asia that started the decline of population in the Great Lake states. It was that the factories and infrastructure was getting old and in disrepair that prompted the executives of the industry to relocate. The fact that winters were so harsh had the executives looking south for places to relocate to. Texas and Atlanta, Georgia became the destination for most of that business. Most of these decisions were affected by how the governments of the two different areas were accommodating to or lacked the will to work with the industry. So Texas cities grew as midwest cities shrank. The same thing happened with Atlanta. As Atlanta grew and Chicago shrank, O'Hara Airport lost its status as the world's busiest airport to Atlanta's Airport. Now that we see Indiana, Ohio, and Wisconsin gaining population while Illinois and Michigan are still losing population can be attributed to one important factor, that is the political parties that are in power in those states. The democratic party rule in Illinois and Chicago has created problems with crime in that formerly great city. Indianapolis, on the other hand, grew throughout the years that the rest of the Midwest was in decline.
O"Hare is still a very busy airport. While the Chicago area has its issues some people continue to move to the area. Indianapolis seems ok, but I don't fully agree with your take on Indianapolis and Chicago. Speaking of Wisconsin Milwaukee also has been seeing a growing reputation for crime unfortunately. My guess if you'd blame the local democrats for that one as well. Far as I'm concerned Chicago is still a great city with lots to offer like Ukrainian village along with other Eastern European communities. A bunch of different neighborhoods to visit and hangout in like Lincoln Square and Andersonville. But yea crime is an issue in Chicago as well.
i think politics are a part of it but not entirely. most of michigan and illinois’s population were centered in old industrial cities. columbus, indianapolis and most of wisconsin weren’t hit as much. so those cities have grown while most of the other cities haven’t
I lived that! You are exactly correct. The industry of the Midwest went south to Texas and Atlanta first before the US started iosing manufacturing plants to Asia. I grew up in a small thriving town in Southwestern and Michigan. The two had three big industrial employers with a neighboring small town five miles away that had two more large industrial employers. After I graduated high school in 1971, I went to Indianapolis to further my education, I was hoping to return to Michigan after school to live and work. However, the lack of jobs as companies moved out of the area negated that plan. I remained in Indianapolis throughout my career, but every time I was in the job market, headhunters were trying to get me to go to Texas or Atlanta. I managed to stay in Indianapolis because it had the right political party running the government, which was pro business and manufacturing. My parents also left our town and moved to Ohio, where they were closer to extended family and in an area with more employment opportunities, but it wasn't as good as Indianapolis, so I remained there. As for the climate, I find that the south is two hot almost all year, but in the Midwest, the winters are getting milder than they once were. Summers have been more comfortable than in the past also. The great lakes have an effect on the weather that makes it cooler in the summer, warmer in the winter in Michigan and near the shoreline in the other states. The real only drawback is that the lake effects, where wind blowing across the lakes picks up moisture and dumps when it reaches the land. So whatever the direction of the wind is from the land along that shore gets a heavy snowfall for about 75 to 100 miles from the lake.
I just moved to Wisconsin from Virginia. Trust me its way better than most people think.
and you have a fish fry to go to if you want.
Living in western New York, it would have been really nice to have been included since a lot of what you said about the region is true here as well but I get if you couldn't because including New York City that is nowhere near the Great Lakes throws the population numbers off.
you forgot to mention crime in Detroit and Chicago. good video.
Heh. I grew up in Michigan's UP. Summer was otherwise known as "Three months of bad skiing". Now living in NE Lower Michigan, not far from Lake Huron. We get some snow, but it's manageable. If it's cold, you can layer up. I've been in Phoenix in 112 F temperatures and the only relief is to get to someplace with A/C ASAP.
I believe the next 50 years will see a lot of climate-related migration to the Great Lakes region. This is where the water is.
Born, and raised in Michigan. Moved to Tennessee for 10 years. Moved back to Michigan and never left Michigan since. But the reason people are leaving is jobs.
a lot more then that Very high propertys Taxes for starters
There’s an interesting Great Lakes counter example here: in the 10 years you looked at Ontario on the Canadian side of the Great Lakes grew by about 2 million people and now has more people than the Illinois
Its also like 5x the size so that nullifies that
Ontario is quite ly to be called the southside of Canada.
It's just crazy if you move north from Chicago business district with multi million dollar homes and billion dollar industries. You quickly reach building's and lots that only cost 10 or 20 Grand
First you may pass Gary then Milwaukee or Detroit after a few hours then on the other side of the Lakes homes again cost Millions around Greater Toronto.
@@_________. Ontario is way bigger, you are not wrong about that, but almost all of its population lives densely in the south of the province and the rest of the greater north of Ontario is very sparsely populated.
@@soulyv You can write something about Illinois. Illinois has a lot of land in its own way not as big as Ontatrio, but still a decent size. Big enough where it can take like six hours to drive or take a train from Chicago IL to Carbondale IL. And similar to what you wrote about Ontario most of the population lives in the Chicago area as well.
@@_________. The region of Southern Ontario is smaller by area but larger by population than Illinois
I live in between Chicago and Wisconsin and can definitely say that their are many beautiful places to live that are affordable. The problem is that today is May 2nd and it's 40. Yesterday it was in the 30s. It is very gloomy here even in May. I'm 45 now and just want to live somewhere warmer with more sunshine in my older years.
You really won't be going out that much so what do you want to move for.
Having lived in Florida for most my life, I would take a few cool days in May (40 isnt cold to me. Thats tank top weather in Minnesota) over hot ass days in November like in Florida. I guarantee no matter how chilly May can be at the start by the end of it it will probably be hot and suffocatingly humid all across America. I welcome the cool air to linger.
Western NY should have been included. I grew up in Rochester, NY which is considered a Great Lake city, as is Buffalo and Syracuse. All 3 cities have gone through the same history as the cities mentioned.
Erie PA too
The US government should focus on bringing back steel and manufacturing to the rust belt area as it becomes a national security issue where certain products need to be made in house
Won't happen, the current EPA regulations won't allow it to happen.
Won’t come back to the mid-west.
The Caucasian and African American Midwest working class is no longer functional thanks to heroin and obesity.
Unfortunately, the politics of the Midwest are consistently anti-immigration and thus unable to take advantage of the laborers that come from migration across the border from Mexico.
All the states that are growing have abundant lower cost labor populations from Mexico/South America.
Yup! If we got into a war with China and we're buying their steal for our aircraft carriers, tanks and fighter jets, doesn't our government see a problem with that? Even if it costs more, steal is important for our national security. We need to be self reliant in steal.
I was born in Chicago in 1970. Lived there until April 2015. The biggest reason I left was taxes and politics. I loved going downtown, till I didn't. I lived in small farming communities, vacationed in Wisconsin, and had a good life. The government keep making it harder and harder to be happy. It's hard to even go back to visit Illinois. I don't want to spend any money there. Wisconsin I'll visit in a heart beat.
And yet without tax revenue generated from Chicago none of those other places would exist
Same here. 1972 DuPage County and moved out of Illinois in 2019 due to politics and taxes.
The great memories of vacationing in Wisconsin. I could easily move there from here in Illinois Thinking of staying right here in the midwest when retiring. Hate the cold weather but my hot flashes hate the hot weather too!
Chicago in the 90's was my favorite place to play. I travelled there often for work and really got to know it well for an outsider, especially hanging with a Chicago salesman who grew up being a downtown courier. Wacker drive was a trip by the pier. The pacific club out in downer's grove, the whole downtown, especially uno's. I never even heard of any crime incidents, let alone witness one. Walked and cabbed around with impunity. Today, there is no effing way I will go anywhere near there, and I would really like to see Shedd one more time.
@@jjrusy7438 Crime is a fraction of what it was in the 90's
The hysteria over carjackings today wouldn't even be on the news in the 90's , murders were double or triple what they are today , peak murders for the city was roughly a thousand in 95
Can't relate! Lived here my whole life and would never leave except to another major Great Lakes city. I adore winter and despise hot summers. The summer in the midwest is already too hot. Anywhere else seems like a nightmare.
Bone chilling Winters + Economically Depressed has to be a lethal cocktail.
As measured since the 1850s at New York's Battery, sea levels are rising only approximately 2.85 mm per year. I hardly think that will be a deciding factor to get people to move back to the Midwest. Edit: I originally posted 0.1 mms/year. That's the variability of the data, not the actual sea level rise per year. I have now corrected the actual sea level rise per year to be 2.85 mm per year. My apologies for posting the original inaccurate number.
That’s a lot! 10 years becomes a centimeter, u would be surprised how much devastation that can be honestly
@@Max-bi8fn 100 years
@@UserName-ts3sp I kind of ignored your rate because i know from NOAA it is more, sea level along the U.S. coastline is projected to rise, on average, 10 - 12 inches in the next 30 years
@@Max-bi8fn based off the dude’s numbers it’s 1mm every 10 years. 10mm = 1cm
@@UserName-ts3sp he is wrong unless we can find their source
Michigan residents are leaving because of governor Gretchen Whitmer
Many of these Midwest places ,especially the larger cities have a lot of attractions, great architecture, great culture and restaurants, first class health systems ( very important), many have wonderful biking pathways, they do have winter, personally I like winter, and they have tons of natural resources as well as relatively affordable cost of living. That’s the formula for migration not leaving. This will play it out in the near future guaranteed. We have already seen several people from Florida and California moving in, to our condo complex in Downtown Detroit, they all said they love it, so much to do here, said they wanted to get in ahead of the rush down the road. Interesting.
I love the snow, and I know it will go away. I don't understand why people would want to live in a desert. It just doesn't seem natural.
@@lavalampluva55401 yeah me too, I love areas more like Europe in North America , like the north east region like Toronto, Montreal and Maine
YES, FLORIDA NOW IS TO CROWDED, OVER 800 PEOPLE A DAY MOVING TO FLORIDA, HOUSING IS WAY OVERPRICED, IN JUST 4 YEARS, HOUSING HAS INCREASED OVER 100 THOUSAND DOLLARS, SAD
@@domcizek , yes that’s what I hear, my nephew lives there and said his insurance is absolutely going through the roof literally, he said it’s more than tripled in three years, that all the insurance companies have left except for the government sponsored one, and you can’t get insurance if your roof is more than 10 years old, so what are these people going to do as mother natures wrath gets larger larger every year, which you know it’s going to do with more severe weather happenings and hurricanes causing more and more damage. It sounds like it could be a total mess in the not too distant future.
I always wonder why people in Ca. who are barely making it, have low paying jobs and live in one of the most expensive zip codes, why they do not move to the midwest and make a life there. I live in the cheap home area of Ca. that is still desirable, and the houses start at 500K. You get the joy of very long commutes.
The problem is where most the jobs are and people live are dumps. Detroit, Toledo, Cleveland, Gary, Flint, Saginaw, etc... I can go on and on.
Lived in southern Illinois all my life and think the state would be way better off if we split from Chicago. Our votes are completely nullified by one city, we're taxed to death, and have to go through a lot of red tape just to own a fire arm. Indiana seems much better...but the grass is always greener on the other side. Our country in general needs more Godly leadership.
The depressing, long, and cold winters are certainly a strong factor.
Weather doesn't have feelings though only humans do.
Wisconsin is beautiful during the summer. You couldn't pay me to live there in winter.
Late Spring and most of the Fall season as well...
I was all in until you brought up climate change.
It's deindustrialization and terrible politicians voted by their people.
If they are terrible politicians voted on by the people then what does that say about the people. As George Carlin has said "people complain about politicians, but we voted for them and that's the best we can do"!
That was over a decade ago when Carlin said that. If he was around today he would be even more critical of republicans then he was then. Ted Cruz, MTG, Boebart Lauren, George Santos even trump trying to get back in to avoid prosecution for his multiple crimes!!
You've gotta do one on IL. This state has been so poorly managed.
And yet by far and away one of the largest and most successful
@@knyghtryder3599 If bankruptcy, corruption, crime, draconian legal systems, and decreasing standards of living means success to you, you should move to California.
Illinois will make a comeback soon.
Hi Geoff, I watched this video several weeks ago and I've had time to reflect on it and to read and watch other news and videos. I do find it really surprising that Americans, including my American cousins, have left one of North America's most beautiful regions for other parts of the USA. Most of my life has been spent in Ontario. I have endured and enjoyed the four distinct seasons of the Great Lakes Region, the fabulous diverse forests, lakes and rivers, and all of the activities that go with the geography and climate of this region. My concern in Ontario is; how do we cope with massive immigration (86% of Ontario's population growth) and urban growth while simultaneously preserving the beautiful environment that we have? I am encouraged by how many newcomers to Ontario are getting out to our parks and campgrounds to experience the wonders of nature. I hope we can do it and keep Ontario beautiful.
Time to start holding one’s territory and stop submitting to WEF style homogloblism
I’m from Wisconsin where it can get darn cold! We all left because of temperature, not manufacturing jobs and my family isn’t alone in leaving due to harsh winters and big heating bills.
Half of everyone I met in Phoenix is from the Midwest, and left for the same reasons. The increase in salary and living standards is just a nice bonus.
@@venomlink2033 so you moved from a place that is too cold to a place that is too hot and running out of water. makes no sense
@@jtex9412 Have you even been there?
Not mentioned, but worth noting is that NAFTA was a huge reason many jobs were lost basically overnight when it went into effect. Also, until these "water stressed" states you mentioned (like AZ, TX, etc) suffer from huge water shortages, no one is moving for fear of climate change.
Forget about Nafta. Most manufacturing jobs have left for China, Japan, and Germany.
@@sm3675 You're not from the Rust Belt, are you?
Interesting and informative. Thank you. It would be interesting to compare the urban and rural areas of these states as far as population growth -- especially those rural areas that are small towns right on the Great Lakes or areas such as the Northwoods of Wisconsin where there are many smaller lakes. Also, what is happening in MN on Lake Superior and NY on Lakes Erie and Ontario?
You're over thinking this. Baby boomers are retiring in huge number and are realizing that they're free to move to a more pleasant climate.
Buy forest land in MIchigan's Upper Peninsula, near a river or on one of the Great Lakes, and salt it away for your descendants.
Having traveled the entire U.S. many times over, Detroit and Chicago are my favorite 2 cities BY FAR !!! I chose to settle almost exactly half way between them in Michigan. I can be in the heart of downtown either one in just a couple hours. Others can leave, I'm staying put !! I would also encourage you to update regarding the explosion of growth recently in Detroit. Its in a massive comeback incline and becoming more beautiful by the day adding new structures among the incredible architecture that already exists.
The best city is one you live at least a hundred miles from.
The rate of rise of the sea is what it was 100 years ago. what is he going on about?
Sea level rise has not changed in terms of rate in hundreds of years... CO2 is the source of all life on the planet, Climate Change as it is defined is a hoax. Daily high temps have been falling for over 80 years. 30 years of pushing the lie have made people believe it...
supposedly it's some new fangled idea.Something that was called "global warming" now changed to "climate change" but before that in the 70s everyone was considering painting roofs black due to global cooling and a new ice age coming . They can't seem to make up their minds from polar vortexes to atmospheric rivers . Good thing there's still that thing called weather that changes daily, monthly, seasonally etc to balance stuff out like it always has since the planet started spinning somewhere between a few thousand years ago and a few billion. .
Oh, right the sea level rise story has only been in the news for several years now so maybe that isn't long enough for you to catch on. I have been following this issue of sea level rise for over a decade. The warming of the atmosphere because of increased atmospheric CO2 and to a lesser degree methane. CO2 has been increasing since the beginning of the industrial era over 150 years ago. During that time it has increased 50% from 280ppm to 420 ppm now.
Increased atmospheric CO2 leads to more heat retained in the atmosphere and thus a warming average temperature globally. This leads to seas warming up which causes them to expand and that is the main reason for sea level rise. The other reason for sea level rise is due to the melting glaciers in Antarctica and Greenland. The warming climate also results in more extreme weather in the form of floods, heat waves, drought, hurricanes and so on. Everything I have stated is well documented which you can verify online.
@@michaeldeierhoi4096 The IPCC say there isn't evidence for increased storms. The rate of the rise of the seas is what it was a century ago according to the research. Greenland had its coldest winter on record last year, and the deep water in the North Atlantic has been getting colder.
@@michaeldeierhoi4096 You missed the entire point, which somehow does not surprise me. Sea level has been rising for 20,000 years. In the last 150 years the RATE has not changed. If AGW were happening to any significant amount the rate of rise would be increasing in that window of time, but it is not.
I have never heard of anyone moving because the climate is changing. But, high taxes, job loss, and family are the top three reasons.
I mostly agree but not totally. Small numbers of people are factoring it in, and more will do so in coming years. I agree that taxes and jobs and family are driving, immediate forces and will be for some time to come. Wait until the Colorado River truly dries up one summer and you get four Hurricane Ians in one season in Florida. The seesaw will eventually tilt back up that way more.
I have heard of it happening. Seen news segments where people along the Lousiana coast were considering it. To them they the water getting closer and closer to where they lived, where there parents and grandparents lived. It was like one house down south in the state even pass New Orleans. Some of the people in Barrow Alaska feel like the climate is changing at a rapid paste for them. Certain signs like a certain bird that normally return at a certain month isn't doing so as often. The man in the video talked about how they feel like they have to adapt that what they were taught as kids doesn't apply anymore and they believe climate change is part of it. Granted they're not moving from Barrow they plan to stay at the time of the recording.
Chicago Area is COLD and then Hot and Humid.
And the taxes are high and getting the car tested for pollution and it's anxiety SUCKS.
I live in Bolingbrook and hate it lol
IK you didn't include StL in this discussion but I think you easily could have, it perfectly fits what you are describing. Not to mention, most of the Rust Belt cities were developed for streetcars not private ones, this has left a lot of potential for dense, walkable, and mixed-use infill developments! :]
But thankfully we have the Loop Trolley to fix all our problems!!!
@@IHateMyAccountName it is a great start to our future trolley system to be sure! :] 🤍
Geoff forgot to mention how the efforts of new generation, anti-suburb, anti-car, anti-road urban planners have sent miilions screaming and fleeing from the newly deformed big cities that consistently rip up the existing infrastructure and use ever more taxpayer dollars to implement their selfish personal agendas that hardly anybody needs, wants, or uses.
this is my main beef with the midwest. The cities are really not walkable at all and have no public transit!
@@discocycle better than most of America though sadly
AC becoming commonplace in the mid 20th century should have been mentioned as a major factor. That really transformed the ability to live in the south "comfortably". Now in the south one can have moderate winters, and wonderful AC in their car and house during the summer.....or they can get hit by wave after wave of cold air and snow up north every time they have to go outside their house...I spent one winter in Saratoga Springs, NY about 10 years ago and it was horrible. Dark, cold, snow, shovel, work, eat, sleep. Repeat for months. Terrible. It's one thing if the city and/or job market is amazing but the loss of jobs and increased crime along with the weather has severely cut at the appeal of that region no matter how nice the 3 months of summer are there. I guess Madison, WI, Columbus, OH, and maybe the more desirable parts of Chicago could fit as "desirable cities" in that region. What other cities? Slim pickings.
Excellent point!
The main appeal is that climate change is coming on fast, A.C.s are making it worse. There simply is not enough water to support that many people in the Southwest and most of the southern states have been doubling down on the suburban growth Ponzi scheme. This means places are designed to be driven around not encourage active mobility options. At least Rust Belt cities were mainly built around trolleys and therefore still have good bones for walkable mixed use developments.
I left MI about 30yrs ago and have not looked back. The state was hidden in gloomy gray skys for half the year and with the growing levels of liberals the state became a horrible place to live. The roads are constantly under construction and full of potholes. Yet right across the border in Canada they have beautiful roads in comparison. I am not sorry I left for more sunny skies and friendlier people.
From MI, moved to NC. In my experience, the north has nicer people and many New York and New Jersey people are moving to NC and you can see the difference. Originally from Mi, moved to NC for 4 yrs and I’m happy to be back in MI.
I live just outside Youngstown and have for 60 yrs. The one thing you neglected was the “brain drain” in the region. By the 1980s the majority of our college grads began moving out.
And a large portion of our population is still waiting for manufacturing to return to the area. Wages are still low in the area compared to most of the US. I will say that most of the people I know are good people and try to help each other but right now the area is stagnant. I taught in a rural school for
30 years. When I started we graduated 60 kids. Today it’s 30.
I grew up in Cleveland, lived for some years in South Florida, and spent most of my adult life in California.
When my wife passed away, I retired, and it was time to relocate for a lower cost of living, I moved back to Cleveland.
I don't need the pestilential heat and humidity in Florida. A few months of it up here per year is plenty. And yes, climate change was a factor. Between the threat of hurricanes and the lack of available homeowner's insurance, I don't want to be stuck with an unsellable Florida property.
Snow and cold is a drawback, yes, but staying indoors isn't the worst thing a retiree can do.
In four years I haven't regretted my move for a minute. With age comes wisdom.
Now days it's the weather, no major companies would even consider it as it has been brain drained to the sun belt. Mostly talking about the northern areas, the south midwest is rather mild.