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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 มิ.ย. 2024
- 15mins or 10hrs? What is the sweet spot? | The Fateless Podcast
Fateless is a brand-new game studio created by passionate content creators with the goal of creating amazing community-focused games. On this channel, we are sharing our journey from start to launch of the creation of our first game, and future projects down the line.
00:00 Start
01:35 Nubs Background and Current Projects
02:23 Favorite Gaming Genres
03:29 Optimal Complexity and Time Requirements
06:22 Grinding vs. Story Patches
07:34 Game Complexity and Community Engagement
11:34 Time Commitment and Healthy Play
21:41 Manual vs. Auto Gameplay Preferences
28:54 Hard Challenges in Gaming
34:36 Mastery System and Achievements
37:25 Favorite Game Modes and Preferences
49:29 Game Mode Design and PvP Balancing
57:44 Outro
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#fateless #gacha #gaming - เกม
Regarding the point Brad was making her at 22:54 I think he nailed it. From the very beginning of the game, they train us to do things on auto via the Arbiter missions. For years they hammer it home. It’s the whole point of the game. You can have it running in the background while you’re doing other things and it never demands 100% of your undivided attention while you’re farming. The moment you introduce content that is antithetical to the core gameplay loop we’ve been experiencing for the last 3 years, people aren’t going to like it. And rather than make adjustments to it, they “force” us to engage with it via advanced quests. And when that didn’t work they doubled down and created Hydra Clash so now there is social pressure from your clanmates. It’s awful.
Love this company. Gonna be playing the game day 1. I’m sure this has been said before but if there is an energy system, to have it refill at 8-10 hours to reward us for using it before we go to bed. Not the 6.5 that is in raid. Also, would love normalized pvp. But, I think it could be a separate mode or a weekend thing, you could even host tournaments on twitch or something. Although I am all for normalized pvp I want your game to succeed so in the gacha sphere you gotta have the champions to chase and have a place to reward people for using the champs they pulled (hot take to all F2P players). Or maybe weekly/monthly ranking seasons for both so you could choose to compete in either. Thanks again Fateless!
Ideally you have a system that permits players to grind as much as they want with diminishing returns, and/or an ability to cache energy for future grinding.
That was everyone is encouraged to put in some time every day to get the beefiest chunk of rewards, but you don’t gate people out of playing more if they want.
Unlike raid, don’t punish people for not being able to play for big chunks of time on certain days of the week.
Would be interesting to do a podcast with a summoners war content creator, that game has done pvp way better than raid and is even fun to watch.
I love that y'all are spending so much time thinking about this and incorporating the communities thoughts and feelings about it as well. Of course, y'all will make the game you want to play and build time requirements around that (as you should!). For players who want to ensure they maximize progress with as little time as possible, that means the "dailies' needs to be achievable in a short amount of time, but I have said this in discord and really do hope that to some extent your game will enable the players who want to commit more time doing auto runs or something like that. Can't WAIT to see Beta content, would love to participate if at all possible. Appreciate everything y'all are doing--best of luck as always!
Thanks Charlemagne 🥰. Can't wait to share more on beta myself!
This was extremely enjoyable. I have tons of faith in this team, and I'm it's not blind faith. They have the right components to succeed massively.
Thanks Sephiroth, really appreciate it 🥰
There's tiers to raids dailies. The daily quests take 5 maybe 10 mins. Open 3 green shards, upgrade a piece of gear and a champ a few levels, run a couple campaign levels, then do 5 arena battles. Depends on wether you have the 3 or 7 campaign mission one, but this doesn't take long. If you go advanced quests, you can do it fast or properly. You can quickly use some faction war and doom tower keys on low levels and be done with it. You could also run the best stages you can, and this will take longer.
I know on a daily basis the 3 energies from daily, advanced and playtime quests aren't that hard to pick up. Then there's doom tower and hydra that I need to manual. Arena I can do for great hall. Cursed city for extra rewards until I get stuck. I don't think it's too much. If you're busy, you don't HAVE TO pick up the energy from the advanced quest. Just grab the playtime and daily quest energy. Save if for tomorrow, or run something in the background. Personally there's always a time in the day I have raid doing something in the background.
It would be a really great podcast to see with @YDCB in discussion of pvp and general gacha mechanics.
Skill and having things to think in gameplay is great. Composition of teams and strategy is such a fun component of games.
The difficulty of raid is what really pushed the CC stuff and the community.
Here's the recipe, make it to where you can progress in an hours time, but allow offline farming. Have content to grind and reward the grinders, offer fair packs that allow people to catch up or get even further ahead. You make money, people can casually play but be relevant til early late game, but also allows people to dive and grind the game and / or spend. And please have manual play available and have high awards. Simulated content is solid rewards, manual content is a higher tier. That's my thoughts on it, hope you all do great.
Auto v manual. Being able to build a team and run it on auto is a QoL. You put the time and effort into building that team and then you want it to be able to do the job you created it for without the need to micro manage it. You can then either sit back and watch a thing of beauty that you created, or walk away and get on with RL things while it does what you built it to do. It also allows you to see where things can be improved, where it succeeds/fails and why. If you then enjoy the hands on approach, you can sit and do it by hand. This allows for both types of players to enjoy the game in the gameplay style that they like most.
PvP. I'm with Brad on this. Equalised PvP is truly a game of skill imo. It's knowledge vs knowledge and not wallet vs wallet. Sure, it's also somewhat based on the champs you have, but one way around this is to have a set pool of champs each day or week and and you can only pick champs from the pool once per day, or if weekly sets then have a much larger pool to begin with and have a reset on the 4th day. Make this a limited amount per day but also have a duel arena, where you can use your own champs to fight other players just for the challenge of playing against another player with no reward other than the satisfaction of defeating your opponent.
Achievements. The achievement system is a very good one as long as you can advertise it to the world. Have the ability to click on a name and see what that player has achieved. It encourages competition, and those who have the most challenging achievements also get bragging rights too. I agree with Dirk. Having a trophy is often better than having equipment and attaining something exclusive to winning it especially, if that item/equipment then makes you even stronger in that area as you can feel like you are so far behind other people that you will always lose to a superior equipped player who may have been playing for months or years before you started, so what's the point in doing it. Winning an avatar or cosmetic is even better as you don't gain an in game advantage, but like the completed achievement statement, it's something you can advertise that you have done by wearing it, or using the avatar for all to see what you have accomplished.
Difficulty. Raid is successful because it has many difficult, challenging mechanics, CB, DT, FK (normal) but it also misses a lot in recent times by simply over tuning some bosses. FK hard for example was simply over speed tuned. You had to have just a handful of champs, or it was impossible to do. That is not difficult content, that's bad design. They have since released a few champs to combat this, but it's simply still over tuned and needs to either be toned down, or a whole bunch of champs needs to be released in one hit that are accessible through fusions and titan events to allow a much wider variety to be available to the player base. Amius, Sand Devil, Phantom Shogun are also other examples of bad design. When there are more videos on how to cheese a boss than there is on how to beat the boss through it's mechanics because there are a limited amount of champs, or requires a lot of money to invest in doing (blessings) then you know that it's not hard, it's just poorly executed. Bosses should be hard to beat, but there must be a wide availability of means (many champs/combos) already in the player base to do it too.
Nerf v Buff. This is probably the hardest thing to get right only equalled by the monetisation policy and making sure all content is 100% solo capable. I say have a disclaimer and have it clearly in your remit that in game balance is one of your top priorities at all times, and that if anything is obviously out of balance whether it needs to be balanced upwards or downwards, that you will do so at the earliest opportunity or as soon as reasonably possible to do so due to needing to recode something and let everyone know immediately that it will be happening so everyone knows and understands not to invest in it, especially if you know it will take some time to change. Don't hold off until you have the fix before announcing the fix as people may go on to invest thinking this won't change then it does and everyone goes nuts. A nerf doesn't always have to mean that it becomes worse than another champ. If a champ is the strongest by a long way, just dial it back so it's still the strongest, but by a small margin, so at least those who have that champ still have the best champ, just not a broken one.
Be sure to keep on top of buffing champs. Every time you bring out new content, uplift the champs already there and I say also tweak the old stuff upwards too, so the old champs and new champs alike don't over power the original areas. I really don't know why this is never done in games. it always seems that it's set it and forget it. It's only value changes that are often needed to be adjusted to keep the old stuff relevant and this can be mapped out years in advance, so you know what to do as, and when new content emerges. This will also slow down the inevitability of power creep which will happen in these types of games due to the nature of these types of games.
For every nerf try to do 2 buffs, or release a champ to counter instead but only do this if the counter is not just another broken champ. It's better to nerf a champ that is broken than to release a counter that's also a broken champ as it still limits the player base to those two champs for whatever the reason why they are broken in the first place. This creates a have's and have not's as Krakens/Whales go get it and everyone else falls backwards. Discontent arises, and toxicity develops in the community towards spenders, no/low spenders and Fateless too. This leads to an escalation of power creep, as more and more broken champs are released to find a balance for the original one and daily logins/fusions become focused on trying to rebalance the game and community by flooding it with broken champs UDK/Wukon/Armanz or breaking the speed meta by introducing Stoneskin. Just fix the damn champ to begin with, take the inevitable flack from those who have it and be done with it, but be consistent and always do it so you don't get accused of pandering to the Whales and only nerfing those widely available to the majority Trunda/Cadaver/Madman. That's the quickest way to lose your community imo.
Thanks for the detailed reply!
I'm in the boat where i want to spend a few hours setting up and min maxing the auto team but once its all set up and works the way its supposed to. Autoing it and seeing it work is super satisfyng
I used to also do a ton of content on manual, partly because it was necessary as a lower-level player, and partly because I actually enjoyed it. I think the introduction of Hydra and then Hydra Clash actually killed that enjoyment for me because 1) It takes SO LONG to play on manual, and 2) Now I feel like I HAVE to do it on manual to get the best score possible instead of it being my choice.
The time requirement is why I started playing Raid. I needed something to occupy time when I was disqualified from my job by a medical issue. A new baby in the house prevented my original plan of climbing in League of Legends. Of course, my available play time will drastically shift when I get back to work and no free time.
It's like video games in arcades in the 80's. They always showed hight scores with the persons name. There were people who always wanted to beat that score and get their name on the display. Love that concept.
Oh for sure. And if that someone was a person you knew.. game on!
It would be amazing to have in-depth custom AIs you can tweak like “If any enemy has less than 50% health, use A2” or even having a counter for number of uses of an ability. Something like a character not being able to use their A3 more than once or twice on the first wave of enemies. Or target priority for one of your specific champions is the enemy with the highest health. So many ways you can go about it with individual custom AIs so I understand how it would probably be difficult to implement.
Thanks for the idea, sounds cool. You should share it on our discord too for more people to see if you don't mind. discord.gg/fateless
The difference for me between hard an annoying is when a boss disables your team with for example, freeze,stuns etc. hard is great. but dont make it tedious
I think one aspect of the auto is how static is the gameplay. Your character doesn't move, the only thing is pressing the same button again and again.
In console gameplay, normally there's more movement of the character and the variety of manual action involved.
In a sense you are more stimulated and it feels better to play than a static gameplay I think.
“You will have absolutely no idea how to get the hidden masteries… until I leak them” Simon…. Lmao, sorry could t resist. I actually really love the idea. Also about the time issue. I like the idea of being able to stock pile for a few days quite a bit. But energy should be limited. Some days I’d never put raid down if I had unlimited… and you know raid would reconfigure fusions to used it ALL. Then we’d have to game round the clock to get anything done or it would be too easy. Limits are needed, but with some flexibility… I like eating the cake I still have lol
How would hidden masteries work when people like Saph would data mine the requirements on day-1?
There's day I work 12hrs at hospital and I get like 30-60 min to play during breaks and days off where I can put easily a few hours.
The fun part is also team building, that's fun! It's probably a few hours a week.
Here at 30:55 I think Bommal 90 in DT hard is a good example of the point Nub is making. It’s just too much. They could give him a 25% nerf and it would still be challenging and rewarding. He’s just a little over tuned in my opinion.
Energy is such a huge issue. My wife stopped playing RAID around level 40 when not having enough energy became a problem. When she wants to play, she wants to play. I would like more energy, but the flip side is that the energy restriction means at some stage, I just have to go grab some sunlight.
Good way to see a positive twist in it. No energy in game, go grab some energy from the sun 😎
On the topic of manual vs auto running battles, I feel like Watcher of Realms does that well. Your initial clear in pushing new content is tough, requires some time investment, planning, and skill. But once you've cleared it, you're given a stat bump to allow you to auto those battles much easier. The only thing I'd recommend from there is allowing for more "optimized" or powerful teams to run the battles quicker. Watchers requires a minimum time (waiting for enemies to spawn) but if players were able to build teams to push it through quicker, there's reason to continue optimizing.
if fateless does do a energy system, MAKE SURE to let the refill to max be AT LEAST 8hours (aka sleep cycle)
Only 8? I'm hearing like 12-48 for the most part 😅
For the discution around Auto vs Manual. I personally play auto because i need to do thousand of runs and the fight are boring and "predictable". You don't need to react to stuff hapenning. There is no positioning, not a lot of choice to make in the fight. If the fight were more engaging, more rewarding, i would love to play manual. If the mechanics and reward are build around a deep turn base combat i would not mind. You jsut need to respect the time invested by the player either way.
At 55:45 Simon was speaking about monthly balance changes. I think if you’re going to go this route, be prepared to refund resources to the players who invested in them. But generally speaking, nobody is going to want to whale on your game if they feel their investments aren’t going to be protected. It’s why Plarium rarely nerfs. They don’t want to piss off the people who have +4 Taurus and Marichkas. If someone spends 5 grand on a 10x to get a certain OP champ and then that champ gets nerfed, you’re going to lose players. It’s not the same as balancing classes in wow.
Another thing that you guys can do is to balance the playtime with rewards. Instead of limiting how much people can play the game, use a 70 / 90 / 100 rule (e.g.) . Meaning that you spend 30% of the time to get 70% progress, 70% of the time to get 90% progress, and 100% time to get 100% progression. Do you understand what Im saying? The core progression comes from 1-2 hours per day, a good bonus you get for playing 5-6 hours for example, and if you really want to break your teeth out to minmax your account you can play 12+ hours per day for the last 10%. Do not decide for the player how much to play your game. If the game is enjoyable, let them play. And people will thank you with loyalty and in the end, money.
Right at the end, I like the idea of rebalancing but be careful of messing with speed tunes. Ppl would hate regearing monthly
Raid rewards you for crafting teams that save time, but also something once crafted you can do in the background. Considering it's PTW (i.e. geared toward adults) being able to marry that together is massive. Most adults with jobs, kids, and all of life's responsibilities can't be 100% engaged on a game for 10 hours a day... but Raid, maybe, with the right setup off to the side while doing other things.
One aspect is that you don't do he same boss on manual every day or 3 times a week. You usually have a variety and you probably manual one and move on to another one
Seems like the best way is to put caps on the daily grind thing(energy) but free up the gear grind aspect of the game and make that where you can min max. Hot take no character levelling but have account levelling and gear you get is to your account level. comps and tournament brackets can be whatever your account level was once it goes live. End game could be a max account level going for limited gear events (unique sets)to help with certain boss fights, which you could still do at lower account level just the gear will only be whatever your account level is. Just checking ideas out there just want to help you guys make a great game which I’m sure you will!
Problem-solving for grinding. To give people to grind as much as they wish is not healthy because there will be always people who can sit 8-16 hours a day and then good luck for others to catch up. Some have only 1-2 hours. So my solution is to give some amount of recourses per player per week, some amount of hours per week, or energy so they can decide when to use it. Maybe To get more recourses for grinding you need to build your team stronger and more efficient for better results to get more recourses (for ex.: a guild boss team or weekly quest line so after completing it with a certain amount of points they can get recourses of how good they did).
It's a tough thing to balance for sure. Thanks for the feedback. Drop the idea on our discord game idea threads too if you don't mind. discord.gg/fateless
I'll say it again. Story! Hard content that makes the player feel connected to to story is something to look for. When you feel that connection to the story you'll stay longer in content. Every advancement of the account is connected with pushing the story along. WoW was really good at this. Every boss fight was integral to the story line.
Thanks for the feedback Paul. Is WoW your favorite for storytelling or do other games come to mind?
@@FatelessGamesDefinitely one of my favorites. When I played WoW, I really got the feeling I was involved in both the immediate expansion story line and the over all story of Alliance vs Orcs in all modes of the game. Their story telling was just really good and everything fit nicely into it. I have not payed a hero collector that could do that for me. Its just grind grind for the next big boss and that's the only motivation. Another series that was my favorite was Fallout! All of it. the immersion in that series of games is spot on as well. It goes into "why". Why am I grinding hours? Your 'why' of building community is a strong 'why'. If, you can somehow integrate a story as well... WoW did this on the individual, guild, faction AND global level. You were a part of it all.
Big agree on all of that. Fallout one of my all time favorites.
The reaction to difficulty could depend on gaming generation. I was so happy to have challenging bosses in Armored Core 6. They offered the sense of accomplishment I remember from gaming as a child. But that could just be my generation.
I mainly play strategy games. Even taking something like Football/Championship Manager. The skill is setting everything up before the action. These games aren't Action RPG, it's a turn based strategy RPG. Therefore auto friendly content is a must.
In terms of energy/no energy. I would love a game that has a really high cap. Like 10,000 energy cap, even if you only earn 1 energy every 3 minutes or something. It would allow you to do the minimum dailies for a week, then grind on the weekend. This way players are not forced to grind daily for fear of falling behind.
Per Simons comment on nerfs and buffs, check out how Summoners War does it, they do a lot of it but consistently and it has kept that game going for 10 years
btw good to NOT compare raid or your game to idle games of gameplay time (afk arena, afk journey etc)
I think content can be as difficult as you want to make it as long as it offers good/fair rewards. The problem tends to be when content is balanced around these resources or rewards
Thanks for the feedback Carl, appreciate it 🥰.
I'd like it, if you could upgrade a common champ to a legendary. Each time that champ hits a new rarity, that champ would get more skills.
I agree with the monthly Nerf / Buffs. I play Marvel Snap & they do weekly card adjustments to keep it fresh & let people swap out & try new cards. It works roughly the same way with characters. I used to play Raid, play some WOR & am big into AFK Journey right now. Also, top 20 in Honor Duel 🎖
I play Battle of Polestar, which takes most of the day, mostly afk, I also play Tycoon's Choice which is 30 mins + 5 mins here and there, no afk. The main thing is you can only have one intense, long time of play game, all the others have to be very short.
The other thing i would like to see is if you have a content creator program, actually listening to them and being able to tweak or fix it before it comes to the rest of the player base
Nerfs - psychologically people generally feel/remember losses much more than wins. The comment of giving more buffs than nerfs is probably right to help keep players happier.
Yeah true. Also nerfs often could've been avoided where buffs tend to be natural progression as the game goes on. The champion released on day 1 may not hold up to the champions released on day 1000 so a buff is in order.
I think the biggest thing to avoid is very time intensive requirements . I think dragon heir is not close to finding the balance. They limit your time and gate progress then ask you to have a large roster of built up champs to make teams and fight a whole bunch of boss battles in a few days. I thought I would like it as a side game but am rapidly losing interest
The rewards/toughness is important. If there's not much point in doing tougher content... I wouldn't do it for just a little medal.
100%. Need some challenge to keep it interesting.
I like being able to spend a ton of time in a game. However, I understand a lot of people do not have that time. So strange idea would be able to convert energy into a potion in your inventory/mailbox so you can at least make that up when you can spend considerable time. For example, if 200 'energy' is acquired, 150 could be converted. Some DR on it, but still something.
Another thing would be to have something super grindy, perhapd a horde mode type thing with progressive rewards. This way people can have an optional farm if they want with at least some reward but nothing insane.
An amazing game like raid is built on both people who spend lots of time. 4 to 5hrs to 1 or 2.
If this is the same genre as Raid, I'm afraid I won't be playing it, I'd rather play raid. but good luck creating the game and have fun playing it when its released :)
Simon nailed it. Balanced, well-implemented pvp is incredibly popular. Any game where its poorly implemented is where its unpopular. Raid is actually implemented fairly well, the problem is its entirely p2w which makes it feel poorly balanced.
The most important part of this type of game is gearing champs variable gear is what makes players different across the board. Daily stuff should be do-able with 2 hour or less. Something I hate is low energy cap I much prefer to save 20k plus energy just because I need to do events. I >don't< think you should pay for energy you should be able to play like a mmo no energy my time is my time to invest. Difficulty should be something to master but I don't want to take month on end to be able to beat it. If people want to beat it in few hours fine most people don't do that and it takes time. Monster hunter is a great example of mastering a boss and you get stronger each time to beat it. When it comes to Manual or auto I think both. Champs should be done in the sense of you don't need dupes and there skills are the most important part rather than what raid has done and you need stats and dupes. The type of game is pve focused which I love most do, but pvp should be even and champ based like LoL you can have a non Lol system like afk but it should still be based on skill and roster. Hope this helps I could say more after playing raid from launch over the years you no exactly what the community wants and what to improve on don't get lost in the source.
About a quarter of a way through the podcast and originally had a whole PHD thesis about this but to distill it down to the main point, it's this.
I hate being compelled or forced to play the game for an hour.
SWGOH is one of those games you really can play for five minutes or five hours depending on what you want. But the key part of that game is that the daily quests only take 2 to 5 minutes to play. To repeat, I hate being compelled to play the game for 60 minutes just to do the dailies.
If I want to play the game for 13 hours, that's fine but that's my choice. And that's what's important.
Um, this of course does not apply in cases of addiction though which is a whole other issue. Anyway, looking forward to the launch of this game!
Yeah feeling "forced to" may feel quite sucky sometimes. Thanks for the feedback Fleder. Would you still have dailies or no?
Word
If I do continue playing another gacha game after Raid (or in parallel) it's got to be way more casual. I tried to go for Dragonheir at the same time but I just don't have the time.
Nice to hear your thoughts on this!
Is their anyway I can support you guys more?
53:29 the problem with nerfing in raid is that it takes SO MUCH TIME to get the champ, the gear, the books and now the blessing
agood example is Duchess being semi nerfed with all lockout mysticals and King.
Am i going to get any blessing coins back ? lol no. All wasted
I love that other games have a yearly or quarterly system where you can swap stats, gear, blessing etc on champs
Raid needs this
Yea a quarterly system sounds quite cool. Drop it as a suggestion on our discord if you want, in the game idea threads. discord.gg/fateless
I mentioned this on the short, But as someone who enjoys the rewards from a grindy game, I would prefer a system that allows you to pay for convience, and cosmetics...but not require payment to play the game itself. I want the ability to no-life the game when I have a chance, but not feel punished for having a real life most days.
My key example is with Mino in Raid. The fact there is no stage 20/25 or Super raids for Mino, is only to drive people to spend on gems since mino is tedious and not rewarded for events like DD. Its an anti player behavior, when other dungeons are getting higher tiers, it would make sense to add more stages to mino, and add super raids, AND allow it to award points in dungeon divers as it IS INDEED A DUNGEON. With just a few tweaks, Mino would be a great way of allowing folks to grind instead of pay, without being punished for choosing the grind.
To expand on that thought, When I say punished, what I mean is that Raid is very "All or nothing" in terms of its event structure and fusion/fragment events. Where maybe there will be 105 of 100 available to someone without trying to win a tourney, and if you are on vacation for a couple days and miss 1 of the 10 fragment events you are out of luck. Where in other games there might be 150+ available and the event lasts a month. So you are not pressured to log in EVERY SINGLE day or miss out. Super hopeful that Fateless can nail that balance so I can have a "main" game again!
in relation to nerfs, I think, that if it is common, and you know it will come because a hero is OP, then you would not be that angre about the nerf... and you would not spend alot of money on the hero, if you know, that they will be nerfed. The problem i Raid is, that there is years between the nerfs, so you dont expect them.
Two seconds into the video: there are energy refills in star rail and genshin 😂😂
TLDR: I want to play games with my spare time not plan my life around the games that I play..
There should be things that I can do if I want to do them but they don't hurt me if I don't want to do them.
For example: I should be able to gear swap and program teams or test builds anytime I want. I love how in WoR I can test my Clan Boss team anytime that I have the spare time to take a look at it. I can kill an hour or 2 doing it if I wish to dedicate that time toward the game.
What I dislike the most about RSL is that they force me to be online at specific times throughout the day and actually penalize you if you don't log in every 12 hours. I would love to be able to take a day off without feeling like I'm falling behind. I absolutely hate it when I'm out with my friends at 7:30pm and I know that I'm missing out on a clan boss key or that I didn't have time to finish my faction runs before reset. I want to play games with my spare time not plan my life around the games that I play..
If you can make the AI more customizable, with potentially multiple settings that can be swapped mid battle with a button, that would be a huge improvement in the genre.
What's like the number one thing you feel like is usually missing? Also drop it on our discord discord.gg/fateless
@@FatelessGames target priority
Running your daily's should only tank an hour at most but you absolutely need to have the ability to do 3+ hours if you want to grind.
Just create a system of diminishing returns on grinding that drop off pretty steeply after dailies and a way to monetize resetting those diminishing returns
@@stevenlester985 makes sense i like that, but it has to be relatively cheap to do it. Where you will get really nice revenue steams from tons of people doing it because it is cheap.
For me, I feel like farming something is the best for auto'ing. But there are times and places where I want to manual it and actually feel like I'm playing it. I think any mobile game should have that balance.
What kind of things should be manual only in your opinion? Like are those things that happen every day, are they optional, maybe a weekly thing?
Could re-balancing by bringing out new gear that some what dampen the op champ or ability, give people a chance to grind a solution maybe
When you beat a level, have auto as an option to not go back and re-do.
before nerfing,which is top to down type of way. Rather look at it as from bottom to top. rather bring poor heroes up before nerfing
PVE is king but then its down to gating and energy
15mins and it becomes like a daily task and interest becomes stale. However, tedious manual/auto tasks are too interest killers. Sure is a thing to consider, hope u get it right 💪
Thanks for the feedback 🥰. What'd be ideal in your opinion?
@@FatelessGames as a player, the feature that brad(?) told about acumulating rewarda from previous unplayed days is a cool thing. However, time wise, theres never going to be a optimal time frame. If we're talking dailies, maybe 15/20mins for everything. Last example i have is from WoR, a game im no longer playing. I used to spend hours (just like in raid) browsing menus, tinkering builds (playing the damn game lol) but it came a time where only logged in for dailies. And eventually i would skip a day because dailies felt like a chore. And eventually quit. And the lost of interest is, from wor, it was the lack of roster depth. RAID i just got tired of being shafted as a f2p. Played for 3/4 years maybe.
Yeah I've heard something similar quite a bit. Also again nothing wrong with quitting a game when fun stops, that's what they're for in the end.
Just my perspective from a champion collector point of view….i love raid for being able to collect them, what has nearly stopped me playing, is after 4 years and being active I could still get every champion, seersha included despite how awful she is to collect. With the monster hunter champions. Despite me pulling many shards I missed out on all three ‘optional’ champions. Knowing I can never get the archer and knowing how strong she is pisses me off. But even if it was a common that it was now impossible for me to get, I would not like it. Please make all champions available at all times. I know partnerships are lucrative, and often time gated but I honestly feel this is a big reason for me not being half as committed as I used to be.
Thanks for the feedback Chris, drop it on our discord too for more people to see! discord.gg/fateless
I would almost like the pve and pvp be separate. Not sure how it would get done but being able to tweak champs in pvp to make it a bit more strategic vs whos the fastest, would be interesting. Like for pve content boost those stats to the moon, but when that champ goes into a pvp fight its a bit more even which allows for "non meta" champs to be used more
Hey guys i know your building a new game based of games youve played and supported but this game is for the community that your building as well yourselves and making a game you can bring all your ideas to life as youve been supporting games that havent always listened to your feedback which is frustrating but i can tell this is going to be a great game probably the best as its going to be constantly updated as i play games of this genre like raid and watchers of realms but i have an idea that might make your game more unique which is maybe your attacks could potentially target one area of the body of a target and it gives a debuff like for example hitting the legs reduces speed etc but if you crit the hit i think there should be so X-Ray vision impacts to make the game more immersive and get the enjoyment of critical hits what do you think?
Thanks for believing in us 🥰. Sweet idea, you should drop that on our discord too for more people to see! Discord.gg/fateless
Have to auto, even great to have ai. well here is where dragonheir does it good. their auto play is very good. sure you guys know it too. but cant be bothered to sit on a stage hours to manual it
imo 2 hours would be great raid is 8-10hrs - but I would like it where energy was not a resource play as little or as much so quality of life is self driven
Thanks for the feedback Brian. If you have any qol suggestions that a game just has to have, drop them on our discord too. discord.gg/fateless
In my opinion players should be able to be away from the game for 24 to 48 hours without losing anything with dailies being stackable and energy caps and attempts for different modes high enough to stack while you are away for the weekend or just very busy irl.
I game 40 hrs a week in any given game I play (which is 1 game at a time) ..If I cannot play 10 hrs straight in the game I love say on a Saturday then I am gonna move on and find a game I can love and play as long as I want each day. Fortunately Raid allows me to do this and my other related time spent watching CCs on TH-cam and Official Raid Forums daily posting keep me busy daily in Raid
So you work 40 hours a week then you come home and game 40 hours a week. When exactly do you live life
@@alschirjaev9213 well the fact my wife is a gamer is a bonus I suppose ..
Game late game stage should be complex and player should be able to play for as long as he wants to.
Thanks for the feedback. Do you have any example games with really complex lategame?
Minic fortnite. Playtime 1 hour to what ever u want. Add dailys n weekly quests that only take under 30 mins for dailys n 2 hours max for all weekly quests
What are the dailies like in Fortnite? Haven't played it myself.
Hmmmm nubs has a rather respectable name.....no bias lol
Definitely no bias detected 🤐
Games like raid take so much time... but it's mostly time doing auto battle in the background or not looking at the screen...
That type of game is almost play that game but no one really wants to actually play it. They want it on auto in background all the time.
Follow Afk journey model.
Why not just have daily quests that give a good amounts of rewards but then allow people to farm gear, arena, food champs with no energy limit? The thing that I've personally have always hated about energy games is when I'm looking for a certain drop or gear type or finish leveling a champ and I keep getting time gated by a energy llimit. Having to buy energy is like putting coins into an arcade game, it's an old idea that is not fun and needs to die.
I think raid does playtime well. More rewards for more play less rewards for playing less. My only gripe is energy being to low if it was like 200 energy it would be way more balanced
Unicorn 🦄, , nubby wtf lol
Tell us how u really feel chosen lol
Arena would be nice in your game, if it isn't the cluster fuck it is in Raid
HH and gang at Fateless for the love of god please include gifting in your game. There were sooooo many times that I wanted to buy a pack for a clan mate (birthday, to help new players on fusions, etc.) but Raid never added the feature. It’s literally just free money for you so there is no downside. There are a lot of people like me as well who want to do this. Obviously no trading bc people can just farm accounts to get good stuff but just gifting packs seems fine
Thanks for the feedback Jordy, we've discussed this topic a little bit in our discord at discord.gg/fateless , feel free to add to the conversation or start a new thread in the idea threads section.
30 mins max for dailies and clan boss runs. Then give some players who want to play all day stuff to do. At the end of the day not everyone is gonna be happy just don't cater to whales alone and give f2p people options.
mastery system leak??? 😳😳😳
You cannot give one player's opinion, which most of the community might not like, you need to be objective. More game play time, benefits everyone, because no one can force you to play for 8h, you can simply stop, but when you offer only a couple of hours, those who want more don't have an option
Yeah it's a tricky one. How long you reckon is the time it should take to do all the most important things?
honkai is a lot more casual. Really sucked when i played where i literally couldnt play a game I thoroughly enjoyed. Manual stuff to me is awesome as long as you dont have to manual for over 30 minutes like hydra. But if youre pushing something like faction wars where its a 1 time thing I dont mind however long it takes
The most important part to me is making someone who plays a short amount of time playing feels their time is productive while allowing the grinders to also grind. RAID is just too hardcore right now...overwhelming if you try to keep up with everything.
Repetitive content, no matter how good will get boring. The initial challenge and set-up is what's exciting, for it to take a long time to set up is ok...after that allow it to be auto.
As long as the depth of your game is deep it would work. As an example - RAID's auto CB feature was terrible up until the recent instant complete...killing time just waiting for them to complete was not fun.
Please not something like Dragonheir. Hate the gating and limited play per day. If i want to play 24/7 let me. My opinion though. Well in my exoerience, more screentime more potential $$
nerfing as well. say you release a hero, i spent $500 to max dupe or whatever, that is just wrong. except if the champion is clearly broken. nerfing should haappen. but yeah always difficult
Please do not pull a Plarium and make us need a specific champ for a dungein , like Geomancer for Iron twins
I do not want a game where I HAVE to manual. I do not want to play a game where I am limited in gametime. You got to consider that people work, or have other reallife obligations. So people play 8 or 10 hour sessions when they got time, and other days they play an hour. I do not want a game where the ammount of money I spend dictates how much I can play the game. I want my playtime to be meaningfull, meaning that playing the game has to lead to meaningfull accountprogression. Give us a GAME, not a money milking machine, or I might as well play any other gacha. If I can progress in the game PLAYING THE GAME, that would be my dream. Limit the P2W, make it so that you have passes, find other ways to monetize, like cosmetics, quality of life, whatever. Let me play the goddamn game, it would be the first Gacha that you can actually play to progress. Path of Exile for reference, I spent over 8k $ on cosmetics and quality of life, as have a lot of people, without getting ANY POWER AT ALL. Thank you for reading. Edit: To the topic of hard content, what you should do is to consider time and skill. The more skill / dedication you got, the earlier you beat the content, the less skill / willpower you have, the later you beat the content. What you shouldnt do is to make it impossible to beat content at all if you are not the most mechanically gifted, toughest iron mind mtherfker on the planet. You play the game, and you get stronger, and eventually you beat it. Have leaderboards where you can get on with skill, or grind.
We're all working gamers so I definitely get where you're coming from. Hopefully the concept we have in the works delivers on what we want to achieve. Have to wait a little bit longer to find out!
Nerfs are so taboo in this genre bc nearly everything that is nerfed is obtained as a result of spending real money on the game (outrageous levels as well). You can't charge people ridiculous prices for advantages and then turn around and nerf it after you've profited on it. If you're going to embrace nerfing for balance, you MUST have an entirely different revenue model than something like RSL. Nothing will turn the community against you faster.
Playing Dragonheir since launch, love it, but too few things to do. An hour or two of gameplay is not enough for me. Energy/stamina ruins gacha games. DO NOT give us an hour of gameplay, I am not playing that. Because think about it, give as much as we want to play, and we can enjoy, and those who want only an hour, they can stop after that hour, and it's a win win
If you have any content ideas that don't require energy (that'd work in dragonheir or other games) drop em on our discord! discord.gg/fateless
Nub and Brad, about DS. Git gud, scrubs
Don't listen to Nubs 😂 don't tone down Raid etc. then you lose half of the community. Those who don't want to play 8h a day can stop any time they want. I played for hours and hours a day but not grinding hard, still as casual player, but enjoying the content, theory crafting etc.
Sometimes making the builds and crafting the team is more fun than the actual content.