Saving money on shielding gas, viewer suggestion
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ส.ค. 2024
- In this episode we are tackling shielding gas usage with welding and everything you need to know about it.
Are better flow meters worth it: • Are better regulators/...
0:00:00 Intro and regulator info
0:06:11 Mig gun and tig components
0:10:29 Gas use factors
0:17:06 How to save save money
0:24:16 The best way to save money
0:29:05 Signs of poor gas shielding
0:33:07 Conclusion
Simple MIG pre-flow when desired trick: Trim the wire close to the contact tip, get your Nozzle in position as though you had your normal wire out to about 3/8”, and when you do pull the trigger, it will take a little time for the wire to travel out to the work piece giving you plenty of pre-flow gas coverage, especially if you have a slight breeze to deal with.
Great point and it will help a lot with a machine that doesn’t have adjustable pre flow. Especially at lower wire feed speeds.
Thanks Greg, this is really good information! You've given us a start point and then, very importantly, you've detailed how to determine an appropriate flow rate. This helps tremendously! I particularly like how you've laid out how we should be thinking about gas flow in relation to the position of the weld such as a fillet weld versus an outside corner. Once we get an idea of how we should be thinking about the nature of gas flow, we can begin to become much better welders. Rather than just trying to remember something we have the ability to figure it out. All of the points you've laid out help us to do that! Really good stuff! Thank you!
No problem 😀.
For an amateur metal melter like me, this is a masterclass in all those gotchas that I can never explain.
Glad you liked it 😀👍
Hi Greg, great video! For TIG I use the CK series gas saver adaptor with screen, works exact same as your gas lens but uses push on cups instead of threaded.
Thank you for all the great information on this channel.
No problem 😀
Good morning Greg. About a year ago or so I bought a new Mig welder. A Hobart Handler MVP 210. At the time I decided to upgrade my tank also. So, I go to the welding supply store here in our area and as luck would have it their computers were down so I walked out of there with a free upgrade on the tank which probably saved me about $55. and all I had to pay for was the gas. Anyway, thanks for the great advice as usual, God bless and have a wonderful day. 👍👍🙂
Thanks for showing me the nozzle flow meter - I had no clue those exist.
Almost to 25 thousand man. Way to go!
Keep a lookout for a giveaway regarding that, I have a special treat for up to 250 people 😀😀
@@makingmistakeswithgreg will do man. An tell all them kids, real men don't need regulators lol. If ya can't get it with a 7018, it don't need welded lol
Good information. I'm a DYIer with a question. I never seen anyone talk about consumable. Mainly when to replace them. I know i am guilty of running my MIG tip until the wire welds itself to it. Helmet lenses when it gets hard to see. Battery is when the lens stops working. Even thought the battery indicator isn't lit.
Never thought of the shield on a mig gun messing up the flow. I will have to be more diligent cleaning it. Great videos you are putting out. Don't think you have to meet a time schedule. Take a break and make videos enjoyable. Not another job.
Al
Consumables are one of those things that when they stop working is when most people replace them. They actually affect far more than you would realize. Shortening a contact tip via grinding it down lengthens the distance the wire has to travel from the contact tip to molten pool and it actually lowers amperage. It doesn’t sound like much but it can have an effect on penetration on thicker steel, how much spatter happens, and how smooth the machine welds. Probably the worst offense most people (myself included) are guilty of is never changing the liner in the mig whip. Overtime it wears out and collects particles. This can cause feeding issues and can cause the wire to feed out at weird angles from the contact tip (the wire bends due to rubbing on the liner). Not to mention the o ring seals start leaking and next thing you know you need higher gas flow to maintain proper shielding.
Thank you Greg.
You’re welcome 😀
Thank you for your review of the gas flow regulators.
No problem 👍
Just wanted to say thanks to Bob & Greg tryed my new T 225 works great darn i can burn 1/8 7018 on 120v
Would you do a video showing those gas quick disconnects and talking about your experiences with them? I've been looking into the ones from Western Enterprises and trying to figure out what fittings and disconnects I should get so I can switch between gases and machines more easily for those random repairs in the home shop. I'd love to get some knowledge born of experience.
Also, while I 100% agree we should be good stewards and not be wasteful, we won't have a shortage of Argon, CO2 or Oxygen because we essentially recycle them endlessly back out of the atmosphere.
The current Helium shortage is actually artificial because it is caused by government regulations stipulating that we should cut back on it's use. They likely have a good point because of the fact that Helium is a mined gas and not one it is really feasible to recycle in the same way we do with other shielding gases. There's a bunch of it just hanging out in the upper atmosphere and not only are we not sure if it has an effect on the atmosphere but there doesn't seem to be a good way to go up there and reclaim it. I was curious why I couldn't buy helium so I looked into it.
Great video, as always! I loved the videos on the weld repairs, too. Benefitting from your experiences is golden. I wish you continued success and much revenue from TH-cam.
So I actually shot a video on quick detach hose adapters and it will be out within a week. So great suggestion on that. I have 3 types of them (plus a 3rd for oxy fuel). They are well worth it if you disconnect lines frequently. They actually hold pressure really well too.
Of course you already shot the video haha that's awesome! As a home gamer far away from a welding school I get a lot out of your channel. The bend tests and demonstrations of problems you're likely to run into have been really useful.
Thanks for the help, Greg.
There’s a guy that actually tested the flow of each gauge. The dial gauges performed better whether the tank would be half full full or almost empty the meter gauge with the ball in. It doesn’t read accurately when the tank gets lower.
There are a few different types of flow meters with balls. The cheap ones that are very common do a poor job of reliably reducing the tank pressure down to the working pressure on the output. When the input pressure drops as the tank gets depleted the output pressure changes which can change the readings. The better flow meters use very reliable pressure regulators and because they are directly measuring flow of the gas they will be more accurate than a pressure regulator. Not to mention with most pressure regulators (that don’t directly measure flow) you have no way to know what the flow is for gas that isn’t what the gauge was calibrated for. Flow meters have multiple calibrations.
Do you know who made the video and what flow meter they used? There are almost infinite ways to make calculation errors in measuring actual flow on shielding gases. Differing gas densities, changes in density based on draw off rates, accuracy of the testing meter itself, etc. to get a truly accurate test is harder than one would think. I will watch that video and consider finding a calibrated instrument to actually test the accuracy.
I like that little rubber cone flow meter, my hose run is 25 feet (only place I could put my tank) I found the gage type reg was off about 10 cf.
My machine is a Lincoln square wave 175, no pre post flow, ended up replacing the magnum gun for a WP-17 with a valve (15 seconds post flow is a bit to much sometimes) that helps save some gas, just don't forget to turn the damn valve back on before welding again 🙄,
Yeah it's kind of sad we have to worry about gas prices like everything else i guess......... elections have....... oh hell don't get me started 😬,,,, ty sir I always learn something here every time I visit 😉👍
Something interesting, I think. I haven’t checked this out myself, but Zila, who is affiliated with HTP in recent years, was on Liftarc Studios recently in conjunction with them testing a new machine. In talking about pressure and flow meters, he said that flow meters become inaccurate when tank pressure drops. So if you’ve calibrated your flow meter at full, or near full tank pressure, it will be ok. But you have to check the flow as tank pressure drops, as the flow will drop as well. If you’re the kind of person who changes flow constantly, it may not be a problem. But if you set it and forget it, you might start out with 20FPH and end up with 10FPH without realizing it. As I said, I haven’t checked it as I often fiddle with it anyway. But I thought it was worth mentioning.
I saw that also but I have had the opposite experience. I find pressure regulators creep up in flow as tank pressure goes down. I've had that on my torches as well as my welders. I have put flow meters on all the welders I use at work and at home. I got all of them from harbor freight. I can't say how accurate they are but they are more affordable then the welding store.
I do tend to adjust flow more often than maybe I should but unlike regulators, I have never noticed huge changes in flow settings like I have on regulators.
@@aarondean3035 there are the regulators we usually see for $100-200. Then there are the industrial regulators I used to use in my own company which was a commercial photo/film lab. We used a lot of nitrogen gas’s with our film processing equipment, for agitation in various chemical tanks. That needed to be very precise. The pressure regulators we used were two stage units that cost over $600. I guarantee they were more stable and accurate than any of these single stage flow meters we see normally used in welding. So it all depends on needs, cost, etc. as I said, I didn’t test his statement, so I can’t attest to it, but he’s been around a long time and is respected, so I listen when he says something, whether he’s right on this, I can’t say, but it was a pretty strong statement to make.
Due to how they regulate the initial high pressure to low pressure I would think both styles would drift. From what I have seen better flow meters hold more consistent output across the tank pressure. The worst flow meters/regulators I have used are the cheap Amazon specials of both types. They tend to be fairly accurate overall, but I have had a ton of leaks on them. Nothings worse with a regulator than having to pull fittings apart to seal it better because it leaked right out of the box.
Can anyone tell me what causes soot around mig welds? Especially with aluminum from a spool gun. I cant figure out why i always get soot around my weld and it never seems to matter what i do. I clean weld areas, more gass, less gass. Tried wire from different companies. I have two different branded welders.
I have tried to find what causes it but i dont see anyone else have this problem. Im guessing it oporator error but i need to know what im doing wrong
So soot is common with aluminum mig with a spool gun. For the most part it’s impossible to remove all of it but you shouldn’t have excessive amounts. Here are some tips that should help you: make sure you’re pushing. MiG aluminum requires pushing and pulling will guarantee to produce a bunch of soot. I am not sure what your settings are, but mig aluminum functions in spray arc transfer. If your settings aren’t high enough for the process/material thickness you will have soot. Make sure you don’t have any leaks in the system, any leak will cause soot due to poor gas coverage. Make sure the polarity is correct, DCEP. Beyond that everything must be clean.
If I had to take a guess I bet you’re not running enough settings to get it to function properly. It’s a really hot and fast process and it’s very common to run cold. It’s rather difficult to weld thin material with mig aluminum as well, so that further causes settings drops when you actually need to increase and move faster. Beyond that I won’t lie, I tig aluminum because I find it is actually far easier lol.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg thanks. I will try those corrections. I have started working on learning to tig weld but my hands shake which is a little counter productive.
Stubby gas lens all I use. Another great video.
They are worth it 100%
One note: The tube of the flow meter needs to be vertical (within reason) to be accurate.
Great point 😀
Dang $75 to fill a 300! The only place near me that's not airgas will only swap out tanks you lease from them. It cost me $80 to get my 125 of argon swaped out plus $30 a year for the lease.
That’s a bummer 🙁. The less choices the higher the cost. I wish I could find a way to get everyone the same price. I have heard as high as 200$ for a 125 😮😮
$167.63 for 8L 300 bar refill is one of the cheapest in Norway
great info, thanks
No problem 😀
I see argon flow testers as well as c02 flow testers on Amazon. I do not however see any c25 flow testers. Is there something I'm missing here. I also see flow testers that do both. How does all this relate to c25?
So c25 will have a slightly different density than straight co2. Many of the flow testers are calibrated for pure argon. Pure argon is less dense than co2. If you were to use a calibrated for argon flow tester on co2 it would likely read higher than actual based on the density.
I want to Tig my steel with Co2 to save money. Tell me why I can't? 🤔
I wish it was possible because co2 is dirt cheap and more places sell it. Unfortunately co2 will react with the red hot tungsten and it will cause the tungsten to “burn up”. Co2 works for mig because the wire is consumed anyway, so a reaction with the wire (which is also what passes current) isn’t an issue.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg I suppose gas welding of mild steel is also out of the question, for instance with a H180 Oxygen Hydrogen Acrylic HHO Flame Generator as found on eBay?
Hey Greg, unrelated but just thought of it watching this video, have you used any of the rock mount welding products? If their advertising is only half true of what their products can do, it seems like they’ve got a hell of a product. I know melting metal Anthony uses them but I suspect he’s sponsored. their rods are ridiculously priced and I was wondering if you could try them out. If they’re as good as they say, I feel like it would be worth having a pound of each rod just for those special cases where maybe they’re actually miles better than anything else.
Here are my thoughts on those: I have never used those brand rods. They are probably a lot like old boxes of rods that have sat in shops I have worked that nobody used lol. Where I work now has a ton of old “problem solver” marketed rods and a lot of them probably do work. So does 312 stainless, high nickel content rods, and anything that doesn’t become brittle with carbon absorption.
What I find interesting with the rock mount is the extreme cost combined with limited availability. I searched to see if I could find suppliers of it and the search results give very limited results. If it’s a solid product and useful there is no need to charge stupidly high money for it and make it hard to get. I assure you that the Brutus rods are likely high nickel with some chromium in them, which are expensive but 1lb of nickel rods is 30$ at worst. 100$ for 1lb of Brutus rods is crazy high. There is no reason the rod would cost that much other than they mark it up. If it had some patented nano titanium particles mixed with tungsten carbide shards, maybe it would be worth that. Considering it’s most likely a nickel chromium alloy those are not that expensive.
There is a place in the world for maintenance alloy rods because the AWS doesn’t have much of a classification for such rods. I am sure some of them work well. Based on my experience and real world testing 312 stainless or nickel rods will likely do what those rock mount rods will do. With that said I am willing to eat my words so I will find a 1lb tube of them and test them. I don’t have high hopes.
I don't think the world is going to run out of argon, it's condensed out of the air and unless you are doing something very odd it goes straight back into the air. Still no reason to waste it.
You are correct. However around here was a massive tank shortage for almost a year and I couldn’t outright buy a tank (and had issues with some swaps) because nobody was swapping tanks. People were holding onto even empty ones because they were afraid they would turn them in (leased tank) and not get them back lol.
Wow, Airgas is ripping me off. $45 for a 20# CO2 and nearly $100 for a 125 CF 75/25. Im thinking about getting a big 300CF cylinder and an 80 and filling the small from the large if I need something portable.
Airgas is the highest by far in my area, so high I refuse to deal with them lol. There are 3 suppliers that will swap out a 300cf for under 80$ here. Two of them will do it for even less if you pay cash. Even the local liquor stores will fill a 20lb co2 for less than 20$. Airgas is the devil lol
@@makingmistakeswithgreg all my tanks are through Airgas, but if I take them somewhere else, they will give me non-Airgas tanks. It sucks because Airgas is far closer to me than any other supplier.
If you're worried about the cost of shielding gas, then you must be getting a darn good price on material
Haha that’s the truth. Welding is expensive in general no doubt.