Very good points and no one should underestimate what can happen. I think you missed or did not discuss the most important thing. I always go up and down sketchy hills back end of the tractor downhill and go straight up the hill contour - no going sideways. And yes, you can get in trouble at the bottom if you do not have a good flat area to move to the next "row". I have a JD 2025R - 4X tires - always carry an implement on front end, either bucket or grapples, and always have implement on backend - box scrapper or brush hog. I live in washington in very hilly country. I also have a jd x300 2 wheel drive mower - now that is one sliding mower - no matter which direction - tractor handle same hill back end down with no problem. Bottom line always depend on your experience with your tractor. The other most important tip is throttle down - you can get in trouble very quickly with throttle up - with slow throttle you can feel the tractor and have time to react if something feels wrong. Bottom line - don't take chances!
Good points! That was definitely frightening! I own a river camp on the Ohio. We have a 14' wide concrete boat ramp that has a 17 degree grade for approximately 65'. That section has 3/4" wide strakes across the width and they're about 1/2" deep. I have the same tractor as Tim and HST with the wide ag tires. I have fluid in the rear tires and nothing attached except the front bucket. When the river has gone back down in the spring it always leaves a heavy layer of muck and mud sometimes up to 4" thick. I'm no expert and I'm not certain it would be effective on a grass hill, especially at Tim's speed, but we always clear the mud going downward with the front bucket using low range, FWD and slowly as possible. If the machine starts to slide I push the bucket down into the concrete and it stops the slide. It doesn't happen very often but even with a 17 deg grade on mud the rig will stop. The main thing is I'm going very slow. I don't care how long it takes me to get the job done. Typically i wait for a week or two and let the mud dry out and it's much safer but i have cleared the ramp occasionally as i described. I'm not mowing a grass hill and i wouldn't suggest to anyone this is smart but it works for me.
Been there and done it. I love turf tires! My old International 424 2WD with AG tires was a death trap going down grade in excess of 20 slope. The weight on traction tires is greatly reduced and that tread pattern now lifts the tires out of the dirt. Turf tires, even my well worn ones hold just as well in reverse or forward direction. All modern tractors should be 4WD, huge safety issue. Big hint for you, try this: Take your front wheels off and put the right on left and left on tight so that tread pattern on front is oriented to backing/braking. You will love it! Also, this arrangement is superior for tire wear during heavy loader work. I word slopes in excess of 35 -- VERY steep and can stop on a dime and reverse back up.
One tip is that as a truck driver is to go a few gears lower than what you went up. If in doubt chose the next lower range. The more your transmission can hold you back the less wear and tear your brakes get. Also they will be colder and if transmission were to fail, your brakes can stop you from a slower speed more easily than a faster speed. Also note if you have a “close call” get a torpedo level and a clear protractor. Hold it out in front of you from level ground and turn towards the hill until it looks like it lines up with one of the degrees on the side of it. Note that number, maybe write it down somewhere in tractor. Leave those tools in the tractor if possible. If you see another hill the same or higher then you know in advance based on a number that it is too steep to attempt.
When I was young... let's just say around 50 years ago (give or take) my grandfather was teaching me how to rake hay on our large dairy farm. Using our Farmall-H with a narrow front end I was in front of him on the single seat; we came over a steep hill heading down to the end of a row with the wood-line pretty close to the bottom of it. I panicked and pushed in the clutch and he and I went for a hell of a ride but somehow recovered before we rolled or crashed into the woods. It was a lesson I'll never forget about traversing a hill in a gear tractor... a cheap lesson considering ROPS wasn't even a thought back then. Funny how after all these years I can still see and feel that sensation like it was yesterday. Tractor on!
Traction varies with soil condition and what is on it. Sometimes turf tires may be the best option due to the amount of contact on the ground. Sometimes ag tires will have more grip because the soil is wet and they sink in to the dirt a bit and have the pars pushing against the soil working as a force of resistance. There are many different tread designs because there are many different applications. Think about how a race car uses slicks (no tread whatsoever) on asphalt tracks. On a dirt track they cut diagonal grooves to bite into the dirt. How many tread designs are there for car and truck applications? Dry road versus wet road versus snow covered road versus 4wd truck in deep mud etc. The one tread design I have found to be useless on a tractor is the R4 tread. I have one tractor with this tread. Flat hard surface loading gravel etc its fine. Take it off the gravel and get another tractor and chain to pull it out because it is stuck. I used to see the state tractors mowing with turf tires that were extra wide and not as tall. This tread seemed to allow them to work better on slopes. The last few years they seem to have replaced those 2wd tractors on turf tires with really large 4wd tractors with ag tires. There is probably a reason they do not use the R4 to mow. On another note, up and down hills does not bother me in the least. As I have grown older though, side slopes scare the crap out of me. My new tractor is by far the safest of any tractor I have ever owned and I find it to be the most intimidating on a side slope. I have not had any issues but it seems that I sit higher and that makes me feel like it should tip sideways easier. The manual says I can traverse a 22 degree side slope. Problem is, I have no way to know what angle I am traversing. Since you sell tractor gadgets, here is an idea for you. Sell a base that will mount on my dash with a digital readout of angle. That way I can glance at the dash and know that I am at 4 degree side slope, 12 degree etc. If you find one to sell, let me know and I will buy one.
I think the turf tires have more cutting edge area and flex better than the R-4. The tiny sipes in the tread blocks of car and off-road truck tires give an amazing amount of additional grip on ice, rocks, and on rain slicked roads.Those tires have compounds that flex and maintain a slightly better contact pattern. Also, turf tires often have lower load ratings allowing additional flex. Just my 2 cents worth. Love the videos, keep up the good work!
Mike, Tim’s video in 2 wheel drive was scary. That grass was wet and locking up the brakes did not help one bit. The tires were damp and had no bite whatsoever. Excellent video as usual. I learn a lot from you and are very thankful. Happy Father’s Day to you Mike!
A couple of thoughts on the tires. 1) as you mentioned it's tire pressure (too high) But more relevant 2) hardness of the rubber and tread pattern. R4s are built to last long under heavy load, frequently on hard surfaces like asphalt or concrete, so they have super hard rubber compounds. Without digging into the soil, a turf tire will have a soft (more grippy) rubber AND a larger contact patch with the ground. Just like good snow/ice tires on a car are better than high mileage rated all-seasons. Lots of surfaces contact and soft rubber= grip when you're NOT digging into the ground with the tread blocks. As soon as the ground gets soft, deep tread blocks go down and find grip. And in really soft/mud, ag tires find grip and won't clog up. R4s are still the best compromise for most people and conditions.
I'm just gonna freewheel here - I think as a general rule, the more tire contact you have the more traction you have except in mud or some other soft surface. Turf tires offer more surface area for more traction. I agree with the other poster about his tires being wet and your point about inertia, a bad combination. As far as his smaller tractor being easier to drive on the same hill goes toward it having less kinetic energy going down the hill. 1/2 mass (weight) x speed sq. = kinetic energy. The larger tires on the heavier tractor may not be sufficiently large enough to counter the greater energy they have to stop. Thanks for looking out for us Mike!
my old man has a something 80s ford 3600, he always told me if you are going down a steeper hill back down, only having back breaks and the way the tread drives that's the best way. he also said the if you start skating down hill frontwards a well timed engine rev can get your wheels back to the speed the ground is moving.
Mike, I don't have a grassy down hill area, but I do have a driveway that is rather steep and covered in loose gravel. My tractor is a LS XJ2025 with industrial ties. Today, in low gear and 4x4 on a Hydrostatic transmission and less than 1200 rmps (just above stall) I experienced gravity pushing me with the brake engaged. I slide for about 15 ft and had NO steering at all.
Very scary with what happened in 2WD and very lucky it wasn't much worse. I had a seat clinching moment a couple weeks ago trying to pull my PTO finish mower on a hillside that I had never tried before, felt like it wanted to roll. Had to resort back to a zero turn to finish it. On a different note, I received and installed my removable tractor canopy from you and I am super happy with it and how easy it was to install by myself.
Thank you for this video Mike. I've just learnt to ride a tractor and your advice is really helpful. I like the calm succinct way you delivery information with examples.
On HST you can get into trouble if you try to shift ranges. You should mention that to people because HST can be just as dangerous. I had a HST tractor years ago where the range selector would move to neutral on its own sometimes when I was in neutral. On very steep hills, that turns the undies brown. I honestly liked my clutched shuttle better when I had it, because you just could reduce engine speed. But even if you clutched and got it in gear going down hill, when letting out on the clutch you could cause the wheels to slide when downshifting (the same can apply when quickly changing speeds on HST from fast to all of a sudden slow, you can break traction). I think it was the NH WM 55 tractors that I saw now had a feature where if you apply the brake and are in 2WD, it will auto engage 4WD. That would be an awesome feature to have.
I mow alot of steep slopes on my Kubota. Something that happened to me a couple of weeks ago, I was going downhill resting my foot on the accelerator. I hit a hole and the tractor bounced and my foot floored the accelerator. My butt got tight on the side of that hill lol.
I have a John Deere 790 tractor with the 513 Deere bush hog attached to it and weights on the front to control the tractor in either 2 or 4 wheel drive. I had to buy the weights because of the weight of the bush hog and trying to control the tractor when going downhill. I found that the tractor don't slide when going downhill as I lower my bushhog down to the ground when the tractor speeds up, but fortunately we don't have many high spots where I live, but I figured out how to stop the slides and I use the newer 3032E tractor to pull my other implements and that tractor has a bucket on the front of it to weigh down the front of the tractor and I just have to worry about the rear being down on the ground. I use seat belts on both tractors just in case of a rollover so I don't harm myself or the tractor while in use. That is the only way to work and be safe.
Mike Just watched the 2 wheel drive video again and noticed the rear tires were wet, the grass may have been dry until he cut it. Like you mentioned recent rain can still be present in the grass this time, I think in the grass.
Taller heavier tractor i would think would be a higher center of gravity with more mass to help accelerate down the hill. Tire wise I would think it depends on the condition of the surface your driving on. Muddy/sandy loose surfaces an ag tire would grab a bigger bite to give you traction to move forward. Harder compact surfaces the turf tire would have more surface contact. An example would be the drag strip, they use slicks to be able to have the most traction possible on a hard surface. Tractor pulls use ag tires because the ground is softer and torn up. My 2 cents, have a wonderful day Mike!!
I have turf tires on my 29 h.p. New Holland. Never had them slip like that on my hills. I am always ready to drop the loader. Usually mow without the loader and in 4 wheel. Turf tires do better in snow than you would think.
Great thoughts and considerations, Mike! As for the videos linked, it's always easy, and usually imprudent, to play armchair quarterback. He is a lucky man. That's all I can say. If there was one consideration to make, and that is from my limited perspective -- wet grass. That is a set up for a hockey rink. But there is more at play here and I will just say so glad it ended well.
Mike I just watched both, as I am sure you noticed, he got in the most trouble with the brake on. Same thing on ice. Been there done something similar, not on purpose. I am with you I would have thought the R4 would be better, and I think it may have been until he hit the brake. Less tire surface so less resistance. I did watch and he was in low for both videos. Just my thoughts, Bob
I have a John Deere 2038 4wd with a 60” belly mower on it. I cut a very steep hill with it. It does have hydro drive. When I’m cutting, I go forward on the way down and back up the hill. I keep it in 4WD and low range. I’ve never had an issue with it sliding or anything else for that matter. I have a quick detach loader on it and I never mow with the loader on the tractor. I know for a fact, with a bush hog on the back, it will push you and make you slide going down hill. I’ve had this experience! With the belly mower, I’ve never had this issue but I do go slow. I just bought the 2038 a few months ago so I’m still getting use to it. My last JD was 15 years old and it died, so I bought me a new one. I haven’t looked at all your videos but could you do a video on the re-gen tractors. It’s kind of confusing to me but I am figuring it out. Just a suggestion and if you have already did one I will eventually see it. Thanks for a good video and y’all have a good-un!
Great video Mike, as usual, lots to think about! I have a lot of slopes, and it's amazing the grades the previous owners mowed on. Still trying to figure some of them out.
Whew...…… I just watched both of those and the two wheel drive experience really gave me the "butt pucker." I have had that happen to me before and when those tires lock or start hopping, it is scary. It is hard to really tell how steep it is on the video, but it must have been steep.
Amen to that! It didn't look that steep but the 2wd video was frightening! My slopes look much steeper and I've never had anything like that happen. I always use FWD, slow speeds and have my bucket on. I use a Mid Mount Mower. My bucket seems to help me with stability and I have used it to help steady or brake the 1025R. I hate going sideways but up & down has never bothered me.
Very good video with a lot to think about. I have 20 acres and mow and bushog with a JD 1025R. I have never thought that much about going straight up or down steep hills. I always use FWD on the hills and have R4 tires. My concern is turning around at the bottom on some of those slopes. I recently found out about wheel spacers and wonder it they would help? They are available in many thicknesses and I was wondering if like a 3 or 4" spacer would add some stability. Any thoughts on adding/using wheel spacers on the rear?
It looked like your friend had the front loader bucket turned upside down. My brother told me to do this and drop the bucket if I started to slide. Is there a reason he didn’t do that or is that a bad idea? Glad he was okay. Love your videos!!
Dropping the bucket helps if you do it early... If you let the tractor gain speed first, it can buckle the loader and flip the tractor if the bucket grabs the ground. By the time you admit you are in trouble, it may be too late to drop the bucket.
R4 tires are very popular for their flexibility in many applications but in some conditions r3 tires have more traction. R3s have more rubber hitting the ground, the r4 have lugs which are wider than r1 tires but still have less rubber hitting the ground plus r4 tires are made of a hard rubber compound because they are abused on hard surfaces while r3 tires have a soft rubber compound. Soft rubber is going to give more flex which gives better traction but will wear out faster because of that. Hard compound tire don't flex very well so they don't 'hug' the ground as well but they last much longer which is why r4 tires have a long service life usually. But Im not so sure tire type had much to do with this incident. His bucket was up it should have been lower(we are all guilty of this) and if it's slick enough it doesn't matter if you have 4 or 2 wheel drive or what tires you have, you are sliding.
On grass I would think the turfs would have better traction. Would be interesting to know if Tim has filled tires. It looks like he has a quick attach loader so he should probably take it off while mowing, it would also be easier to mow around trees with it off.
Watched Tim's video. Do NOT step on the brake and lock the tires. Slow spinning tires have more traction and will help keep the tractor from rotating sideways. Think ABS... sort of. On a manual transmission, don't touch anything... no brake and no clutch! Otherwise it will swap ends. Engine braking is already more than the traction. Lift the bushhog to add weight to the rear tires. Worst case, drop the loader on the ground to keep you from hitting a tree or going in a ditch.
Nick, they were on what TH-cam calls an "End Card" at the end of the video. Not everyone got them so I've posted in the description. So you don't have to go back to the video, here are links to videos of Tim going down the steep hill: In 4WD: th-cam.com/video/OIG7xsuAomg/w-d-xo.html In 2wd: th-cam.com/video/Ef8AwzSzQJc/w-d-xo.html
Went to a funeral for a good friend last month. His tractor was struggling to go straight up a steep bank. He angled to get up the bank and rolled. This happened in our area Mike - Aurora.
I’m having trouble seeing his tractor setup, but Looking at the video, I think he may have gotten out of control from pressing the clutch down and not having the bush hog lifted up enough with the three point. The weight that the bush hog offers the rear of the tractor needs to be lifted up about an inch and a half or so, so that it is counter balancing the weight of the loader on the front end. Dropping the bush hog, pressing the clutch, and jamming the brakes is the worst possible thing you can do in that situation because then you have zero control other than front tires and dropping the bucket onto the ground. If you leave the tractor in gear and steer the front tires straight the worst that’ll happen is you roll down the hill too fast. He could have lifted the bush hog up higher to take on more rear weight, and last ditch effort he could have dropped the rounded part of the back of the bucket onto the ground. That would’ve relieved excess front end weight, giving more traction to rear tires, and also given some friction to slow his decent from the bucket sliding on the ground. He may also want to add some weight to his bush hog or get a heavier one. Biggest thing though as you said is leave it in 4WD and in gear so the front tires control decent. I’ve cut on steep slopes a bunch, and sliding is never fun, but you learn ways of dealing with it.
Very informative video, especially since I am new to this. My question is with my Kubota BX 2380, if I put nothing in the front and loader is it still dangerous to go downhill?
13. What size tractor am I using. I could mow that hill sideways with my Ford 7700, I've mowed far worse. Driving through Kentucky once I saw a highway crew.mowing a hill that was almost verticle. The driver would shoot his Ford straight.up and at the top he would turn sideways and slide to the bottom, then repeat. Scared me to watch but he obviously wasn't worried. But yes with Baby tractors lile this channel covers they can't handle much of a slope at all.
R4 tire can have all rounded edges to the tread which is not good for traction the are also usually very shallow compared to a ag tire.It looked like it was wet and already cut so he had loose wet grass on top? did he lower the 3point a little more and start taking weigh off the back tires?
I agree with that except the fear factor. You may need to do something " scary "on your property. Take your time and do all of the safety stuff and be sure to have your phone on you. I have gone from petrified to exhilarated, slowly, know your machine and trust in it. Otherwise, things don't get done. Great video tho....
Lee, I just got my first tractor and agree 100%. Driving a tractor is VERY different than a car or truck. As there's no real suspension system, nothing feels right when you first drive one. Even going horizontally across a slight slope makes you feel like you're going to roll. Greater confidence comes with experience.
I'm getting ready to make my first tractor purchase and this video had me wondering if I want to fool with one of those things if they don't have any more traction than that. I would have never thought it would go to sliding that quick. It didn't look all that steep either. Could he have throttled down and not depressed the clutch to get the machine to help manage the slide? If I do get one, I"ll never take it out of 4wd...
The guy panicked and rode the brakes down... a stopped wheel has 0 traction. Just like in a car, never lock up your brakes. If you _want_ to slide the back end of a car around in a parking lot or field, grab the hand brake. You quickly learn a stopped wheel is just like a slick sled. Same thing with a rear wheel drive, want to spin the (truck) around in a field faster, spin the wheels. A spinning wheel has 0 traction also. So again, don't panic. As you said, let the transmission slow you down. You guys must be from down south. We up north know how to drive in slick snow and ice... we play in it. ;)
They're in the description now., toward the bottom...sorry about the inconvenience. I meant to put them there when I posted and forgot about it. There are also links at the end of the video.
Our neighbor turned over a narrow front 4020 blading his steep driveway down when I was a kid and it killed him just as we were driving by in the school bus. Not a good memory!
Question for you mike, I have a dam on my place and its a 30 degree slope. I have done my tractor up and down it on one end and its risky. What is the best thing to mow hills? zero turn, riding mower or what?
Goats. Put a temporary electric fence up and let the goats mow it. th-cam.com/video/9NY7STD8bYE/w-d-xo.html . I'd plant something that doesn't need mowing on a slope that steep. Wild flowers or ground cover vines.
Watched the 4 wheel drive video but couldn't get the 2 wheel video to watch. Based on the 4 wheel video I personally thought he was mowing to fast and that the video taping was causing him not to pay full attention to the task in hand. Slopes scare me wheither it be on a tractor or lawn mower. On this one section of my land I cut it with a weed eater, at least I'm safe.
Looks like the bush hog over ran the tractor and started pushing it, Hitting the clutch and brakes couldn't stop that momentum while going down hill. In the old days I almost ran an 8n up a tree before I found out what an overrunning coupler was. The steel seats were easier to clean, lol.
How about removing the frontloader while bush hogging? I know you had troubles removing yours and said you wouldn't take it off again but I think you are doing people a disfavor by not considering it a major safety issue on hilly ground.
Good points, all common sense for an experienced driver. But, you missed a couple of points that are really important. 1) Brakes. Often I use brakes as part of steering a 2wd tractor, so the pedals are not locked together. If I apply one brake going down the hill, that side will skid and the other side will go twice as fast. Since the skidding tire has no traction, the other side will make you accelerate very quickly. That can be very scary. 2) Some old tractors do not have a PTO override or independent PTO. The turning momentum of a brush hog will push the tractor even if the clutch is disengaged. Experienced drivers know to avoid going down steep hills or trying to stop quickly while the tractor is in gear. (Brakes plus neutral gear is a safer way to stop on those tractors, but installing a free-wheeling override is essential.)
I left this message for the tractor operator: Your tractor tires were rolling where you had just previously cut the grass. Freshly cut grass releases moisture. The somewhat wet grass functioned as a lubricant or bearing surface between the tractor tires and the uncut grass causing traction to break. Why did you tempt fate? Not knowing the capabilities and characteristics of a new tractor plus very little overall experience with tractors and related equipment requires the safest approach and wisest use of the equipment. Trying the hill in 2 wheel drive just to see what would happen was a foolish risk of your health and life. That was not a very steep hill. Where I live, old farmers put every area into production plowing following countours with a tall John Deere tractor with tricycle steering. Most were brave / foolish and were fine. Occasionally one was killed. You need a mentor. Find some old farmer and pay him to be your sidekick. It might save your life. This is a very good video illustrating the possibility of an unknown variable. There is sometimes a very fine line and very fast change between everything going fine and then OH NOOOOOOO! That can happen to a seasoned tractor operator. Put everything in your favor whenever possible. And remember if it seems too unstable or risky, don’t do it. A guy in our community was killed when his lawn tractor rolled over on him. He was mowing the bank area at a bank barn. That ruined his day.
4X4 video his engine was acting as brakes on all 4 wheels and he was in uncut grass, cutting it as he went. . 2X4 video his rear tires locked up and he just kept going faster. That's wet grass or driving on the cut grass. . Driving on cut grass can be like driving on grease. It doesn't matter what tires you have. Don't drive on fresh cut grass on a hill. . He lost braking effect in every way possible in the 2WD video. The only thing that would have slowed him down would be a box blade with a couple of ripper teeth digging in.
A- Read the operators manual Before even climbing in the tractor .B Are you born with common sense ? Drive up & down Slopes ,Always travel in low Range keep Weight down on deck level . Why do I keep seeing American videos of Americans coming to grief driving tractors & -Peddle size tractors too ! . I know Americans are large around the girth than others . We learned about roll overs on the Silage heaps back in the early 70s .
Very good points and no one should underestimate what can happen. I think you missed or did not discuss the most important thing. I always go up and down sketchy hills back end of the tractor downhill and go straight up the hill contour - no going sideways. And yes, you can get in trouble at the bottom if you do not have a good flat area to move to the next "row". I have a JD 2025R - 4X tires - always carry an implement on front end, either bucket or grapples, and always have implement on backend - box scrapper or brush hog. I live in washington in very hilly country. I also have a jd x300 2 wheel drive mower - now that is one sliding mower - no matter which direction - tractor handle same hill back end down with no problem. Bottom line always depend on your experience with your tractor. The other most important tip is throttle down - you can get in trouble very quickly with throttle up - with slow throttle you can feel the tractor and have time to react if something feels wrong. Bottom line - don't take chances!
Good points!
That was definitely frightening!
I own a river camp on the Ohio. We have a 14' wide concrete boat ramp that has a 17 degree grade for approximately 65'. That section has 3/4" wide strakes across the width and they're about 1/2" deep.
I have the same tractor as Tim and HST with the wide ag tires.
I have fluid in the rear tires and nothing attached except the front bucket.
When the river has gone back down in the spring it always leaves a heavy layer of muck and mud sometimes up to 4" thick.
I'm no expert and I'm not certain it would be effective on a grass hill, especially at Tim's speed, but we always clear the mud going downward with the front bucket using low range, FWD and slowly as possible.
If the machine starts to slide I push the bucket down into the concrete and it stops the slide.
It doesn't happen very often but even with a 17 deg grade on mud the rig will stop. The main thing is I'm going very slow. I don't care how long it takes me to get the job done.
Typically i wait for a week or two and let the mud dry out and it's much safer but i have cleared the ramp occasionally as i described.
I'm not mowing a grass hill and i wouldn't suggest to anyone this is smart but it works for me.
Been there and done it. I love turf tires! My old International 424 2WD with AG tires was a death trap going down grade in excess of 20 slope. The weight on traction tires is greatly reduced and that tread pattern now lifts the tires out of the dirt. Turf tires, even my well worn ones hold just as well in reverse or forward direction. All modern tractors should be 4WD, huge safety issue. Big hint for you, try this: Take your front wheels off and put the right on left and left on tight so that tread pattern on front is oriented to backing/braking. You will love it! Also, this arrangement is superior for tire wear during heavy loader work. I word slopes in excess of 35 -- VERY steep and can stop on a dime and reverse back up.
One tip is that as a truck driver is to go a few gears lower than what you went up. If in doubt chose the next lower range. The more your transmission can hold you back the less wear and tear your brakes get. Also they will be colder and if transmission were to fail, your brakes can stop you from a slower speed more easily than a faster speed.
Also note if you have a “close call” get a torpedo level and a clear protractor. Hold it out in front of you from level ground and turn towards the hill until it looks like it lines up with one of the degrees on the side of it. Note that number, maybe write it down somewhere in tractor. Leave those tools in the tractor if possible.
If you see another hill the same or higher then you know in advance based on a number that it is too steep to attempt.
When I was young... let's just say around 50 years ago (give or take) my grandfather was teaching me how to rake hay on our large dairy farm. Using our Farmall-H with a narrow front end I was in front of him on the single seat; we came over a steep hill heading down to the end of a row with the wood-line pretty close to the bottom of it. I panicked and pushed in the clutch and he and I went for a hell of a ride but somehow recovered before we rolled or crashed into the woods. It was a lesson I'll never forget about traversing a hill in a gear tractor... a cheap lesson considering ROPS wasn't even a thought back then. Funny how after all these years I can still see and feel that sensation like it was yesterday. Tractor on!
I have a couple of those as well, but mine were while driving an an Oliver 70. It's amazing we survived.
Traction varies with soil condition and what is on it. Sometimes turf tires may be the best option due to the amount of contact on the ground. Sometimes ag tires will have more grip because the soil is wet and they sink in to the dirt a bit and have the pars pushing against the soil working as a force of resistance. There are many different tread designs because there are many different applications. Think about how a race car uses slicks (no tread whatsoever) on asphalt tracks. On a dirt track they cut diagonal grooves to bite into the dirt. How many tread designs are there for car and truck applications? Dry road versus wet road versus snow covered road versus 4wd truck in deep mud etc. The one tread design I have found to be useless on a tractor is the R4 tread. I have one tractor with this tread. Flat hard surface loading gravel etc its fine. Take it off the gravel and get another tractor and chain to pull it out because it is stuck. I used to see the state tractors mowing with turf tires that were extra wide and not as tall. This tread seemed to allow them to work better on slopes. The last few years they seem to have replaced those 2wd tractors on turf tires with really large 4wd tractors with ag tires. There is probably a reason they do not use the R4 to mow.
On another note, up and down hills does not bother me in the least. As I have grown older though, side slopes scare the crap out of me. My new tractor is by far the safest of any tractor I have ever owned and I find it to be the most intimidating on a side slope. I have not had any issues but it seems that I sit higher and that makes me feel like it should tip sideways easier. The manual says I can traverse a 22 degree side slope. Problem is, I have no way to know what angle I am traversing. Since you sell tractor gadgets, here is an idea for you. Sell a base that will mount on my dash with a digital readout of angle. That way I can glance at the dash and know that I am at 4 degree side slope, 12 degree etc. If you find one to sell, let me know and I will buy one.
I think the turf tires have more cutting edge area and flex better than the R-4. The tiny sipes in the tread blocks of car and off-road truck tires give an amazing amount of additional grip on ice, rocks, and on rain slicked roads.Those tires have compounds that flex and maintain a slightly better contact pattern. Also, turf tires often have lower load ratings allowing additional flex. Just my 2 cents worth. Love the videos, keep up the good work!
Mike, Tim’s video in 2 wheel drive was scary. That grass was wet and locking up the brakes did not help one bit. The tires were damp and had no bite whatsoever. Excellent video as usual. I learn a lot from you and are very thankful. Happy Father’s Day to you Mike!
A couple of thoughts on the tires.
1) as you mentioned it's tire pressure (too high)
But more relevant
2) hardness of the rubber and tread pattern.
R4s are built to last long under heavy load, frequently on hard surfaces like asphalt or concrete, so they have super hard rubber compounds. Without digging into the soil, a turf tire will have a soft (more grippy) rubber AND a larger contact patch with the ground.
Just like good snow/ice tires on a car are better than high mileage rated all-seasons. Lots of surfaces contact and soft rubber= grip when you're NOT digging into the ground with the tread blocks. As soon as the ground gets soft, deep tread blocks go down and find grip. And in really soft/mud, ag tires find grip and won't clog up.
R4s are still the best compromise for most people and conditions.
I'm just gonna freewheel here -
I think as a general rule, the more tire contact you have the more traction you have except in mud or some other soft surface. Turf tires offer more surface area for more traction. I agree with the other poster about his tires being wet and your point about inertia, a bad combination.
As far as his smaller tractor being easier to drive on the same hill goes toward it having less kinetic energy going down the hill. 1/2 mass (weight) x speed sq. = kinetic energy. The larger tires on the heavier tractor may not be sufficiently large enough to counter the greater energy they have to stop.
Thanks for looking out for us Mike!
my old man has a something 80s ford 3600, he always told me if you are going down a steeper hill back down, only having back breaks and the way the tread drives that's the best way. he also said the if you start skating down hill frontwards a well timed engine rev can get your wheels back to the speed the ground is moving.
Mike, I don't have a grassy down hill area, but I do have a driveway that is rather steep and covered in loose gravel. My tractor is a LS XJ2025 with industrial ties. Today, in low gear and 4x4 on a Hydrostatic transmission and less than 1200 rmps (just above stall) I experienced gravity pushing me with the brake engaged. I slide for about 15 ft and had NO steering at all.
Very scary with what happened in 2WD and very lucky it wasn't much worse. I had a seat clinching moment a couple weeks ago trying to pull my PTO finish mower on a hillside that I had never tried before, felt like it wanted to roll. Had to resort back to a zero turn to finish it.
On a different note, I received and installed my removable tractor canopy from you and I am super happy with it and how easy it was to install by myself.
Thank you for this video Mike. I've just learnt to ride a tractor and your advice is really helpful. I like the calm succinct way you delivery information with examples.
Excellent video. Thank you. Keep them coming.
On HST you can get into trouble if you try to shift ranges. You should mention that to people because HST can be just as dangerous. I had a HST tractor years ago where the range selector would move to neutral on its own sometimes when I was in neutral. On very steep hills, that turns the undies brown. I honestly liked my clutched shuttle better when I had it, because you just could reduce engine speed. But even if you clutched and got it in gear going down hill, when letting out on the clutch you could cause the wheels to slide when downshifting (the same can apply when quickly changing speeds on HST from fast to all of a sudden slow, you can break traction). I think it was the NH WM 55 tractors that I saw now had a feature where if you apply the brake and are in 2WD, it will auto engage 4WD. That would be an awesome feature to have.
I mow alot of steep slopes on my Kubota. Something that happened to me a couple of weeks ago, I was going downhill resting my foot on the accelerator. I hit a hole and the tractor bounced and my foot floored the accelerator. My butt got tight on the side of that hill lol.
I have a John Deere 790 tractor with the 513 Deere bush hog attached to it and weights on the front to control the tractor in either 2 or 4 wheel drive. I had to buy the weights because of the weight of the bush hog and trying to control the tractor when going downhill. I found that the tractor don't slide when going downhill as I lower my bushhog down to the ground when the tractor speeds up, but fortunately we don't have many high spots where I live, but I figured out how to stop the slides and I use the newer 3032E tractor to pull my other implements and that tractor has a bucket on the front of it to weigh down the front of the tractor and I just have to worry about the rear being down on the ground. I use seat belts on both tractors just in case of a rollover so I don't harm myself or the tractor while in use. That is the only way to work and be safe.
Thanks Mike all good points and as always safety first
Mike
Just watched the 2 wheel drive video again and noticed the rear tires were wet, the grass may have been dry until he cut it. Like you mentioned recent rain can still be present in the grass this time, I think in the grass.
Taller heavier tractor i would think would be a higher center of gravity with more mass to help accelerate down the hill. Tire wise I would think it depends on the condition of the surface your driving on. Muddy/sandy loose surfaces an ag tire would grab a bigger bite to give you traction to move forward. Harder compact surfaces the turf tire would have more surface contact. An example would be the drag strip, they use slicks to be able to have the most traction possible on a hard surface. Tractor pulls use ag tires because the ground is softer and torn up. My 2 cents, have a wonderful day Mike!!
I have turf tires on my 29 h.p. New Holland. Never had them slip like that on my hills. I am always ready to drop the loader. Usually mow without the loader and in 4 wheel. Turf tires do better in snow than you would think.
Great thoughts and considerations, Mike! As for the videos linked, it's always easy, and usually imprudent, to play armchair quarterback. He is a lucky man. That's all I can say. If there was one consideration to make, and that is from my limited perspective -- wet grass. That is a set up for a hockey rink. But there is more at play here and I will just say so glad it ended well.
Thanks for all the great tips on what to watch out for.
Mike I just watched both, as I am sure you noticed, he got in the most trouble with the brake on. Same thing on ice. Been there done something similar, not on purpose. I am with you I would have thought the R4 would be better, and I think it may have been until he hit the brake. Less tire surface so less resistance. I did watch and he was in low for both videos. Just my thoughts, Bob
I have a John Deere 2038 4wd with a 60” belly mower on it. I cut a very steep hill with it. It does have hydro drive. When I’m cutting, I go forward on the way down and back up the hill. I keep it in 4WD and low range. I’ve never had an issue with it sliding or anything else for that matter. I have a quick detach loader on it and I never mow with the loader on the tractor. I know for a fact, with a bush hog on the back, it will push you and make you slide going down hill. I’ve had this experience! With the belly mower, I’ve never had this issue but I do go slow. I just bought the 2038 a few months ago so I’m still getting use to it. My last JD was 15 years old and it died, so I bought me a new one. I haven’t looked at all your videos but could you do a video on the re-gen tractors. It’s kind of confusing to me but I am figuring it out. Just a suggestion and if you have already did one I will eventually see it. Thanks for a good video and y’all have a good-un!
Good tips Mike. As always,good video 👍
Good information. Did you notice the cool clouds behind you?
Great video Mike, as usual, lots to think about! I have a lot of slopes, and it's amazing the grades the previous owners mowed on. Still trying to figure some of them out.
Whew...…… I just watched both of those and the two wheel drive experience really gave me the "butt pucker." I have had that happen to me before and when those tires lock or start hopping, it is scary. It is hard to really tell how steep it is on the video, but it must have been steep.
Amen to that! It didn't look that steep but the 2wd video was frightening! My slopes look much steeper and I've never had anything like that happen. I always use FWD, slow speeds and have my bucket on. I use a Mid Mount Mower. My bucket seems to help me with stability and I have used it to help steady or brake the 1025R. I hate going sideways but up & down has never bothered me.
Very good video with a lot to think about. I have 20 acres and mow and bushog with a JD 1025R. I have never thought that much about going straight up or down steep hills. I always use FWD on the hills and have R4 tires. My concern is turning around at the bottom on some of those slopes. I recently found out about wheel spacers and wonder it they would help? They are available in many thicknesses and I was wondering if like a 3 or 4" spacer would add some stability. Any thoughts on adding/using wheel spacers on the rear?
Great video. Thanks Mike!
It looked like your friend had the front loader bucket turned upside down. My brother told me to do this and drop the bucket if I started to slide. Is there a reason he didn’t do that or is that a bad idea? Glad he was okay. Love your videos!!
A lot of variables there depending on the terrain, speed, what else is down field.
Dropping the bucket helps if you do it early...
If you let the tractor gain speed first, it can buckle the loader and flip the tractor if the bucket grabs the ground.
By the time you admit you are in trouble, it may be too late to drop the bucket.
R4 tires are very popular for their flexibility in many applications but in some conditions r3 tires have more traction. R3s have more rubber hitting the ground, the r4 have lugs which are wider than r1 tires but still have less rubber hitting the ground plus r4 tires are made of a hard rubber compound because they are abused on hard surfaces while r3 tires have a soft rubber compound. Soft rubber is going to give more flex which gives better traction but will wear out faster because of that. Hard compound tire don't flex very well so they don't 'hug' the ground as well but they last much longer which is why r4 tires have a long service life usually. But Im not so sure tire type had much to do with this incident. His bucket was up it should have been lower(we are all guilty of this) and if it's slick enough it doesn't matter if you have 4 or 2 wheel drive or what tires you have, you are sliding.
Controlled burning is a great way to maintain good native grass stands on steep slopes.
On grass I would think the turfs would have better traction. Would be interesting to know if Tim has filled tires. It looks like he has a quick attach loader so he should probably take it off while mowing, it would also be easier to mow around trees with it off.
Mike I enjoy your knowledge on tractors my question is should your brush hog be wider than your tractor tires
Yes, otherwise you'll be running over some of the grass twice before cutting it and that generally doesn't go too well.
Watched Tim's video. Do NOT step on the brake and lock the tires. Slow spinning tires have more traction and will help keep the tractor from rotating sideways. Think ABS... sort of.
On a manual transmission, don't touch anything... no brake and no clutch! Otherwise it will swap ends. Engine braking is already more than the traction.
Lift the bushhog to add weight to the rear tires. Worst case, drop the loader on the ground to keep you from hitting a tree or going in a ditch.
That’s a flat spot around here in WV.
Wheres the link to the video of your friend you talk about in the beginning?
Nick, they were on what TH-cam calls an "End Card" at the end of the video. Not everyone got them so I've posted in the description. So you don't have to go back to the video, here are links to videos of Tim going down the steep hill:
In 4WD: th-cam.com/video/OIG7xsuAomg/w-d-xo.html
In 2wd: th-cam.com/video/Ef8AwzSzQJc/w-d-xo.html
Went to a funeral for a good friend last month. His tractor was struggling to go straight up a steep bank. He angled to get up the bank and rolled. This happened in our area Mike - Aurora.
i like tractor...thankyou ..verygood video..
I’m having trouble seeing his tractor setup, but Looking at the video, I think he may have gotten out of control from pressing the clutch down and not having the bush hog lifted up enough with the three point. The weight that the bush hog offers the rear of the tractor needs to be lifted up about an inch and a half or so, so that it is counter balancing the weight of the loader on the front end. Dropping the bush hog, pressing the clutch, and jamming the brakes is the worst possible thing you can do in that situation because then you have zero control other than front tires and dropping the bucket onto the ground. If you leave the tractor in gear and steer the front tires straight the worst that’ll happen is you roll down the hill too fast. He could have lifted the bush hog up higher to take on more rear weight, and last ditch effort he could have dropped the rounded part of the back of the bucket onto the ground. That would’ve relieved excess front end weight, giving more traction to rear tires, and also given some friction to slow his decent from the bucket sliding on the ground. He may also want to add some weight to his bush hog or get a heavier one. Biggest thing though as you said is leave it in 4WD and in gear so the front tires control decent. I’ve cut on steep slopes a bunch, and sliding is never fun, but you learn ways of dealing with it.
Very informative video, especially since I am new to this. My question is with my Kubota BX 2380, if I put nothing in the front and loader is it still dangerous to go downhill?
Depends on how steep that hill is. Generally, you'll be okay if it's a gentle slope and there's nothing in the bucket, to be safe, lock it in 4wd.
13. What size tractor am I using. I could mow that hill sideways with my Ford 7700, I've mowed far worse.
Driving through Kentucky once I saw a highway crew.mowing a hill that was almost verticle. The driver would shoot his Ford straight.up and at the top he would turn sideways and slide to the bottom, then repeat. Scared me to watch but he obviously wasn't worried.
But yes with Baby tractors lile this channel covers they can't handle much of a slope at all.
R4 tire can have all rounded edges to the tread which is not good for traction the are also usually very shallow compared to a ag tire.It looked like it was wet and already cut so he had loose wet grass on top? did he lower the 3point a little more and start taking weigh off the back tires?
I agree with that except the fear factor.
You may need to do something " scary "on your property. Take your time and do all of the safety stuff and be sure to have your phone on you.
I have gone from petrified to exhilarated, slowly, know your machine and trust in it.
Otherwise, things don't get done.
Great video tho....
Lee, I just got my first tractor and agree 100%. Driving a tractor is VERY different than a car or truck. As there's no real suspension system, nothing feels right when you first drive one. Even going horizontally across a slight slope makes you feel like you're going to roll. Greater confidence comes with experience.
I always feel way more comfortable going up a steep hill than going down. Bucket low, point straight up, go around to go down
Thank-you!
Was the 4wd video mowing grass and the 2wd video on mown grass? It's hard for me to be certain.
Tire chains aren't just for winter, they might help in this situation.
Thats not bad point. I left my chains on through the wet and mud of spring and they turned my old 2wd tractor into a beast. Never got stuck.
I'm getting ready to make my first tractor purchase and this video had me wondering if I want to fool with one of those things if they don't have any more traction than that. I would have never thought it would go to sliding that quick. It didn't look all that steep either. Could he have throttled down and not depressed the clutch to get the machine to help manage the slide? If I do get one, I"ll never take it out of 4wd...
He did things that guaranteed a slide.
Worst was, going downhill on fresh gut grass.
Stay off the fresh cut on a hill.
If you start to slide why couldn’t you drop your bucket as a backup measure?
The guy panicked and rode the brakes down... a stopped wheel has 0 traction. Just like in a car, never lock up your brakes. If you _want_ to slide the back end of a car around in a parking lot or field, grab the hand brake. You quickly learn a stopped wheel is just like a slick sled. Same thing with a rear wheel drive, want to spin the (truck) around in a field faster, spin the wheels. A spinning wheel has 0 traction also. So again, don't panic. As you said, let the transmission slow you down. You guys must be from down south. We up north know how to drive in slick snow and ice... we play in it. ;)
Could you put the video links in the description? Links in the video don't show up in all platforms.
They're in the description now., toward the bottom...sorry about the inconvenience. I meant to put them there when I posted and forgot about it. There are also links at the end of the video.
Thanks. Much appreciated. That second video was sobering to say the least.
Turf tires are more flexible and grip the ground better . R4 are a hard stiff tire with limited flexibility.
Our neighbor turned over a narrow front 4020 blading his steep driveway down when I was a kid and it killed him just as we were driving by in the school bus. Not a good memory!
Question for you mike, I have a dam on my place and its a 30 degree slope. I have done my tractor up and down it on one end and its risky. What is the best thing to mow hills? zero turn, riding mower or what?
Goats.
Put a temporary electric fence up and let the goats mow it.
th-cam.com/video/9NY7STD8bYE/w-d-xo.html
.
I'd plant something that doesn't need mowing on a slope that steep. Wild flowers or ground cover vines.
Watched the 4 wheel drive video but couldn't get the 2 wheel video to watch. Based on the 4 wheel video I personally thought he was mowing to fast and that the video taping was causing him not to pay full attention to the task in hand. Slopes scare me wheither it be on a tractor or lawn mower. On this one section of my land I cut it with a weed eater, at least I'm safe.
Looks like the bush hog over ran the tractor and started pushing it, Hitting the clutch and brakes couldn't stop that momentum while going down hill. In the old days I almost ran an 8n up a tree before I found out what an overrunning coupler was. The steel seats were easier to clean, lol.
How about removing the frontloader while bush hogging? I know you had troubles removing yours and said you wouldn't take it off again but I think you are doing people a disfavor by not considering it a major safety issue on hilly ground.
Good points, all common sense for an experienced driver. But, you missed a couple of points that are really important. 1) Brakes. Often I use brakes as part of steering a 2wd tractor, so the pedals are not locked together. If I apply one brake going down the hill, that side will skid and the other side will go twice as fast. Since the skidding tire has no traction, the other side will make you accelerate very quickly. That can be very scary. 2) Some old tractors do not have a PTO override or independent PTO. The turning momentum of a brush hog will push the tractor even if the clutch is disengaged. Experienced drivers know to avoid going down steep hills or trying to stop quickly while the tractor is in gear. (Brakes plus neutral gear is a safer way to stop on those tractors, but installing a free-wheeling override is essential.)
Why don't tractors have brakes in the front? At least none of the tractors I've seen have brakes up front. Why is that?
I left this message for the tractor operator:
Your tractor tires were rolling where you had just previously cut the grass. Freshly cut grass releases moisture. The somewhat wet grass functioned as a lubricant or bearing surface between the tractor tires and the uncut grass causing traction to break.
Why did you tempt fate? Not knowing the capabilities and characteristics of a new tractor plus very little overall experience with tractors and related equipment requires the safest approach and wisest use of the equipment. Trying the hill in 2 wheel drive just to see what would happen was a foolish risk of your health and life.
That was not a very steep hill. Where I live, old farmers put every area into production plowing following countours with a tall John Deere tractor with tricycle steering. Most were brave / foolish and were fine. Occasionally one was killed.
You need a mentor. Find some old farmer and pay him to be your sidekick. It might save your life.
This is a very good video illustrating the possibility of an unknown variable.
There is sometimes a very fine line and very fast change between everything going fine and then OH NOOOOOOO! That can happen to a seasoned tractor operator. Put everything in your favor whenever possible. And remember if it seems too unstable or risky, don’t do it. A guy in our community was killed when his lawn tractor rolled over on him. He was mowing the bank area at a bank barn. That ruined his day.
Funny how slopes don’t look so big on video or images
His tires didn't look like they had a full tread on them
If you are not in gear, you are not in control.
Tim went to a taller tractor so the center of gravity went the wrong way.
4X4 video his engine was acting as brakes on all 4 wheels and he was in uncut grass, cutting it as he went.
.
2X4 video his rear tires locked up and he just kept going faster.
That's wet grass or driving on the cut grass.
.
Driving on cut grass can be like driving on grease. It doesn't matter what tires you have. Don't drive on fresh cut grass on a hill.
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He lost braking effect in every way possible in the 2WD video. The only thing that would have slowed him down would be a box blade with a couple of ripper teeth digging in.
Oh he’s getting toasted
you leave the bucket on and when things get harry you drop the bucket
A- Read the operators manual Before even climbing in the tractor .B Are you born with common sense ? Drive up & down Slopes ,Always travel in low Range keep Weight down on deck level . Why do I keep seeing American videos of Americans coming to grief driving tractors & -Peddle size tractors too ! . I know Americans are large around the girth than others . We learned about roll overs on the Silage heaps back in the early 70s .
I see no tractor.
Great tips as always. Stay well and stay safe 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍