Major point left out for Offsides. It isn't just the act of the puck crossing the line that causes the offside. An offensive player has to touch the puck for the offside to occur. If they don't touch it, then this allows them to reset behind the line before re-entering the zone.
The British called it Soccer first, it's an abbreviation of Association Football, it was originally Assoccer,but they dropped the A and first S over time and shortened it to Soccer.
A note about the slow moving puck not being called icing: the linesmen are typically pretty vocal about if they'll call icing it not. Typically, before the puck even reaches the line the linesmen has called out to the players if it will not be icing which allows the players to make the appropriate next move. It's pretty rare that an icing call is noticably bad, and even the borderline calls rarely elicit much more than a "come on, really?" kind of response.
Hybrid icing is a relatively new thing and was created because too many defensemen were getting crushed. It used to be a literal race to the puck once it crossed the goal line, creating a situation with two players going full speed straight into a wall. Joni Pitkanen (whose jersey I have from when he played for the Flyers) had a career ending knee injury and hybrid icing was created the next season.
The reason a line change is not allowed by the team that ices the puck is that many times it is an act of desperation for a line at the end of their shift who are tired and need to get off the ice. Forcing the tired players to stay on the ice is part of the "penalty" for icing. Edit: The video explained that after my comment. Sorry for being redundant😁
One thing that will help while watching a game is that the officials are usually communicating with the players at all times, and this can be picked up by the microphones at ice level. There are four officials on the ice during a game, two referees and two linesmen. The linesmen are the ones without the orange sleeves and their job specifically is to call offsides plays and icing. In the event you are unsure of what may be happening in regards to these rules, look out for one of the linesman and see what call he’s making. You’ll typically see him with his arm raised in the air, yelling if a play is offsides or if the puck has been iced, and will either blow the whistle to call the play dead, or yell if the players are good or if there is no icing.
I started taking my 13 year old and eleven year old girls to a college hockey game about twenty years ago, due to the fact I got one time free tickets at work. I never explain offsides to them, but they ALWAYS recognized it when it happened. I asked them to explain offsides to me and they couldn’t do it. But they’d correctly yell “offside” when the opponents were guilty of being offsides.
And think of icing as anti tactic to again what happens similarly in footie, where once the ball gets handy to your net defenders just boot it as far as they can into the other teams end to safety and you end up with a ping pong game lol
One little addition...if you see the puck cross into the offensive zone with a player in an offside position and the play isn't blown dead, it is because the offensive team has to play the puck in the offensive zone with someone offsides for it to be called. This is delayed offisides and improves the flow of the game and allows the offensive players to "tag up" or get outside the blue line. Once all offensive players are outside the blue line at the same time then the delayed offside is no longer in effect and they can go back into the offensive zone to play the puck. I know that confuses things a bit but you will see this a lot in any NHL game.
For the questions at 6:52, offside is only called if the puck is over the blue line. He's showing all the players falling back for simplicities sake, but if only one of them fell back to play the puck in the neutral zone while the others take their time getting out, it's fine if he plays it unless he brings it back across.
Yeah but they all have to be behind the line before anyone takes it over, which is what he was asking. The entire team has to be onside before they make an entry.
@@DNReacts A nuance he didn't mention... The offside is only called when an offensive player touches the puck. It can be delayed. Say if a player dumps the puck into the offensive zone while one of his teammates is in there - the line ref would raise his arm to indicate a delayed offside. The offending player has the chance to exit the zone and reset the offside infraction.
Icing is where speed and sheer effort come out a lot. There is no penalty for icing if your team is a man down, or on the penalty kill. Fan favorites can often come from a smaller, fastest bottom 6 forward who beats a ton of icings. I’m looking at you Darren Helm
I like the guy's explanation, I'm only a casual fan and didn't realize the nuance of the the blue line offside rule where you can get back onside as long as the puck hasn't cleared it
The referees do a pretty good job of calling icing, it’s probably the easiest and most best made call, icings are usually pretty obvious when you watch it a lot
You have to watch hockey right now. Four teams left. Both series game ones went to extra innings. The pitching has been exceptional. The Panthers and the Hurricanes played almost four full overtime periods (equivalent to two full games plus 20 minutes). Crazy!
I love how you guys used your general knowledge of sports, football especially ofc, and immediately understood what these rules were for, and how they affect the flow of the game, and the possible issues with refereeing and all that. Sports knowledge *is* transferable after all!
Icing can also be useful to disrupt the flow of the team attacking you. If you’ve been trapped in your defensive zone and the other team is buzzing, ice the puck. It’s a risk/reward system. Don’t overthink offsides in hockey. It’s a lot simpler than it sounds. Hope you guys are watching the playoffs right now.
Makes sense, thanks Ethan. I’ve been catching all the highlights and posting my thoughts on Discord 👍 Really enjoying the Last 4 so far. Two cracking games, especially the opener between Panthers and Canes.
Great video! One detail I didn't see mentioned in comments is what exactly the offensive player(s) caught in the defensive zone on a delayed offside play have to do to "tag up" or "get onside." They don't need to completely exit the zone with every part of their bodies. All they need to do is get one skate on the blueline. Then the puck can be brought in again. The attacking player with the puck tries to time the zone entry so they can enter with speed just as their teammate tags up.
A similar rule applies to offsides in football too, if a player jumps offsides and gets back onside before the ball is snapped, they’re not offsides as long as they don’t make contact with an offensive player or cause an offensive player to react when they jump offsides.
In regards to the elongated reviews, there was actually a ten minute review on a play a couple of seasons ago for determining whether or not there should have been a stoppage in play. The best part: after reviewing it for ten minutes, they determined that the play was actually ineligible for review according to the rules and play just continued from where it left off.
One of the things to understand about offsides: it's to deter players from being cherrypickers/loafers. A few decades ago, offensive players used to just hang out near the blue line, even when their team was backchecking in the defensive zone. They'd just float around waiting for a breakout pass for a breakaway try, zero defense attempted. The offsides rule now makes it so that attacking players have to come back to the neutral zone if the puck goes back across the line, they can't just be floaters. A lot o hockey rules basically boil down to "Don't be a lazy asshole; you actually have to skate for it." Icing isn't that controversial; offsides can be as, if a team scores after being offsides, the goal can be waved off. It's also why coaches can now challenge an offsides call or non-call.
The best way to explain offside in hockey is it's basically the same concept as soccer. The blue line is like the last defender and instead of it be fluid with the position of the last defender it's a fixed line that doesn't move. If the puck enters the zone with an offside player, anyone in an offside position needs to clear the zone without touching the puck. The puck has to cross the blue line before anyone else who's not in control of it. This leads to the strategy of dump and chase. A player will send the puck in and chase trying to get possesion
As an older fan of hockey, there was a time the center line came into play. the puck had to be passed into each of the two center zones progressively and be possessed to be onside. Older fans will chuckle as they remember a 2 - line pass
The Goalie often will raise his arm to signal his teammates when he sees the ref raise his arm signaling that he is about to blow the play dead for icing. Similarly if the goalie does nothing he is alerting his players that the puck is not iced and play will continue. The raising his arm by the ref before the icing also allows the goalie to know if he himself should attempt to play or cover up the puck himself
Loved the video. Sometimes trying to put into words what "offsides" and "icing" are can get confusing. People new to hockey usually struggle with this aspect of the game more than most other rules in my experience. It is super exciting when a team hits a long pass that is onsides for a breakaway, one on one, with the opposing goalie.
One point he missed as well is that the puck carrier can carry the puck over the blueline “backwards” as long as they have full control of the puck. In essence allowing the player to cross the blueline before the puck. Again though, only with full control of the puck.
Love watching you guys, one thing they did not explain. I don’t think on this video is line 0:02 changes. Very important. Home team gets second line change so gets to see the first teams changes.
It’s just refreshing to see somebody over on the other side of the pond learn about American sports. I am a Red Wings fan. I bleed red wings red lol. Anyway hockey is an exceptional sport. The speed of basketball, the summer say brutality of football, and the finesse of a ballet dancer. Keep watching and again look up Jeremy Roenick
There can be some questionable judgement calls by the refs for races to the puck for icing, but it’s a necessary evil. Some of the most gruesome injuries you’d see before were from players going full tilt into the boards to beat out the icing call, things like broken legs if they lose their footing. Even if those injuries rarely occurred, just not worth the risk to keep that part of the game in. I believe Joni Pitkanen breaking his leg in a race to the puck in 2013 was the last one to really push forward that rule change (which was implemented in the 2013/14 season). Most icing calls are standard anyways though so it’s not the biggest deal, it’s usually pretty obvious who will get there first.
Damn right. Hockey can be brutal, and sometimes it didn’t look like the players were looking to the puck. It looked like players were looking to injure. If I want MMA, I’ll watch it.
Sometimes up to 10 minutes. Review is done by a room in Toronto for every game. If one player is offsides when the puck crosses, the play is considered offsides, and everyone needs to come back. Something they didn't cover about offside calls is that if a player is offside, and the puck crosses in but nobody on the offensive team plays it, then play continues. They can "cure" the delayed offside call by having all players exit the offensive zone again, generally giving possession of the puck to the defending team since if they play it while the play is offside they trigger a face off.
It is legal to pass to a player behind the blue line even if you have a teammate that is offside. Only if the person offside doesn't touch the puck, then play goes on as the other teammate gets onside
There is exception to the offside rule, which wasn't mentioned. If you control the puck to the, you can cross the blue line before the puck. So you may do a spin-o-rama, skate backwards etc. and it doesn't matter whether you or the puck cross the line first.
When I played in high school the goalie was given the chance to call icing or continue the play if one of our defense guys was close enough to make a play forward without an opposing player close
7:56 - yes, you're right. If any offensive player was offside at the moment the puck crossed the line, no offensive player can touch the puck in the zone. It's not like soccer where a player not involved in the play can be offside without consequence. A point that was left out about offside is the "delayed offside" rule: play isn't actually stopped until the offensive team plays the puck. The offside violation can be cancelled if the offensive team "touches up" - that is, all of them return to the blue line such that no player is fully in the offensive zone. Once they have done this, they can now re-enter the zone. But it's the whole team, not just the players who were offside at the moment the puck entered the zone - the player who shot it in can't go chase the puck (even if he doesn't touch it before his teammates clear the zone); he has to wait for his teammates to touch up before going in. Regarding icing and the subjective calls about whether a player could have gotten the puck first: this is actually a little bit worse with the "automatic" icing rules in the lower leagues than with the "hybrid" rules. With the hybrid rules, the defensive player has to skate hard after it to make sure the other team can't negate the icing, so it's usually pretty clear whether they would get there before the puck crosses the goal line. But under automatic rules, it's not at all unusual for a player to make a half-hearted effort to chase the puck in the hope that the officials will decide he couldn't have gotten there.
As a ref of those youth and beer leagues, it’s tough to officiate with delayed offsides, and even tougher to try and explain it. Think of it as the defensive player. Let’s say that your team has “cleared the zone” (shot it over the blue line into the neutral zone) and an opponent immediately knocks it back in. Their entire team must now get back onside before they can pursue the puck. This creates a “free out”, meaning your team now has the entire defensive zone to set up a breakout play with no opponents attacking. But if you take too long and every offensive player has left the zone (aka. they all have at least part of one skate outside the blue line), they are free to begin attacking again.
There is one icing-ish related rule added after the 2005 lockout which results in a 2-minute delay of game penalty, if a player has the puck in the defensive zone and shoots it directly over the glass (unless it goes over the shorter glass where the benches/penalty box are).
Regarding hybrid icing and the referee deciding whether a play is icing depending on whether or not the puck is rolling too slowly, the guy in the explanation video only partially explained touch icing. Prior to 2013, the NHL used "touch" icing instead of "hybrid" icing, which is, icing only occurred after a defending player touches the puck after it reaches the goal line. This resulted in a "race" to touch the puck first -- if an offensive player could get to the puck first, then, it's not icing and the play continues, but like the video said, this caused a lot of collisions along the boards, since the iced puck would almost always end up right in the corner which is why they wanted to change it. At the time in 2013, international hockey rules universally used automatic icing (where icing is called as soon as the puck crosses the goal line no matter where any players are, which is still used in amateur leagues today), whereas touch icing was only used in North American hockey. After the development of hybrid icing, both the North American and international rulesets immediately decided that the subjective decision of the referee to wave off icing was unimportant since the referee does a good job in 99% of cases, compared to reducing the number of concussions resulting from hits along the boards in the game. Personally I kind of like the now defunct touch icing system for its lack of ambiguity. But I understand where they are coming from.
The only good part of a delay to decide if there is an offsides or not after a goal is that a fair few teams play "Waiting is the Hardest Part" and the crowd sings along.
He explained the subjective icing a little funny. It's less about the speed of the puck than it is if the retrieving player is obviously dragging to let it roll down. It's rare.
The times where icing is waved because a defensive player could have gotten it are pretty few and far between, generally its only called when a player is OBVIOUSLY dogging it to try to get an icing on a play that typically would not result in one. I wish he would have shown some examples of real time plays for both rules but in general was explained well aside from not touching the puck beyond offside. No touch Icing was brought into the league due to a lot of injuries because of the high speed collisions on the end boards as a result of 2 players racing to touch the puck first. Up until a couple years ago Icing was decided whenever one player touched the puck, so if a defensive player touched it first its icing if an offensive player touched it, it was waived. Joni Pitkanen specifically had his career ended on a play that resulted in his ankle becoming shattered on a race to touch up for icing.
For the “you chould’ve gotten that puck” icing calls I’d say about 90-95% of the time it’s obvious enough that the linesman (because refs (guys with orange arm bands) are not the ones calling icing) give a verbal cue, usually “NO NO” as the puck is making its way down the ice.
A lot of the reviews take a while because the play in a inch or two offside.. With the speed of the game the linesman has a split second to call an offside to either stop play or let it go on. The linesmen don't have zoom, freeze frame or five differnt angles when making the call.
In the NHL, the players are really good at icing the puck to the perfect distance to where it slows down before the goal line which makes the opposing team capable of getting the puck without it being an icing call
Ah this sounds quality Zac. Thanks for the info, haven’t seen too much icing yet as mainly seeing highlights at the moment. Hoping to catch some full games if possible.
The blue line is the hard line. If an onside player plays it to an offside player its offside. Thats where dumping the puck behind the net comes into play so the onside player can let everyone touch onside, cuz everyone has to touch onside before playing into the offensive zone. Then you can go back in and get aggressive in the offensive zone The icing 6 one way half a dozen the other it usually has to be egregious. If the puck is slowly moving and so is the defender to let it get to the goal line, they won't call it. But thats why they introduced hybrid icing. Because if the attackers want to go for it then the defense does as well instead of letting it dwindle into icing
In the NHL they review every goal and challenge at the NHL headquarters in Toronto. So yes it can take some time to get the call, most of the time it takes approximately mins or so.
Thanks Ian, this is really interesting to know. Appreciate it!
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Overall, I’d say NHL officiating is fairly solid. Much better than the NFL. NHL officials are full time so this is their primary job. For NFL officials, it’s a part time job. Biggest issues today would be the subjectivity of penalty calls but no way around that in any sport. With replays now, offsides controversies (which were generally minimal even before replay) are nonexistent.
Maybe for a hockey night in Canada or any random game you guys could do a live stream with viewers and everybody can chat about the game and answer questions
Re slow moving puck: Most of the time they only call no icing when it is pretty obvious. There are a lot of times a player sprinting at max speed might catch up to a puck, but it’s not called because they don’t enforce it to that degree. It’s if he reasonably could have gotten to it at moderate speed (the refs know). Some players are known for milking it and they might get a free warning before it’s called next time. But often if they can get to it in time they will because 1- the other team is sprinting towards it to try to cancel out and get possession in the offensive zone (leads to race to the puck, which ends at hash marks to avoid collision into the end boards) and 2- if you can get to it and maintain control your team now has possession (you can arrange for a line change and start an offensive rush with control) Icing also happens if you are trying a long pass down ice but they the puck misses your teammate. He should’ve mentioned the phrase “clearing the zone.” It is the term for when the defending team tries to get the puck into the neutral zone (without icing it) to force the offensive team to “check up” or “touch up” (all offensive players have to reach the blue line/neutral zone and follow the puck in once again). Finally, both calls are usually made via the “delayed” method, where they put their hand up and see what happens before blowing the whistle. A delayed icing can be canceled out by winning the race. A delayed offside ends if the offside team does not touch the puck while play is offside and they check up to cancel it out.
In terms of how the referees are, while every fan will have the claims of the refs being biased against their team, for the most part I think they are solid. There are a lot of subjective penalty calls in hockey and the games moves at such a fast pace, so questionable/incorrect calls will certainly happen. There was a pretty bad issue earlier in these playoffs, where the referee blew the whistle because he thought the puck was covered by the goaltender, but then it wasn't and the attacking team scored. But the goal didn't count because the whistle had blown.
One thing I've not seen mentioned is that when an offside is particularly blatant (eg the linesman had his arm up to signal there's a player in an offside position, and usually shouting to the players who's offside as well). It's fine for the offside players teammate to play the puck into the zone (eg, dumping it into the corner), but if the offside player, despite the warnings, doesn't leave the puck then the officials can call it a deliberate offside. When this happens instead of the face off being just outside the attacking zone, the face off goes all the way back to one of the circles by the offending teams goal. The persistent rumour that the goalie wedgies the offending players after the game have never be conclusively disproved.
You have to remember that hockey has been thriving in the UK for decades. There are a lot of fans who would never go watch soccer or rugby, and they are incredibly knowledgeable re the rules and history of the game……👍🏴🏒🇨🇦
Offsides is actually a pretty easy call in Hockey, the two Linesmen (the two Refs without the Orange Disks on the sleeves) are in charge of the Neutral Zone, when play is at the Blue Line the Linesman stands on the line and can easily determine if someone is offsides once the puck crosses the line.
It's easy. I'd make you understand it in 2 minutes. Offside -you can't eventer the offensive zone (go over the blueline) before the puck. Icing - you can't dump the puck from further than the half way line into the offensive zone unless you're the first one to pick it up along the boards. If the defenders get to it first then it's icing.
Think of Hockey offsides like Soccer Offsides, but there is an actual physical line, as long as you don't play the pass from an offside position at the time of the pass your fine.
A slow moving puck being offsides is usually called correctly. But which player can get to the iced puck first has often been up to debate and had me screaming at the TV.
The other thing about all this is that the rule creates a lot of strategy issues for play. Take defensemen for example. In the offensive zone, the two defensemen on the attacking team have the job of keeping the puck in at the blueline. This is called "manning the points." As a defenseman, if the puck comes to you just inside the blueline, and you have a defending player right on you, you have to make a very sure play to avoid turning the puck over and giving up a breakaway or odd-man rush the other way. In this situation, your defensive partner should "back you up" by dropping back well into the neutral zone, or (more aggressively) making themselves available for a pass inside the zone, anytime s/he sees you're going to be under pressure or get in trouble just inside the blueline trying to keep the puck in. If my partner is about to get into trouble trying to keep the puck in, in other words, I have to take action, either by giving them an outlet to relieve the pressure, or by backing off in case they cough it up. Another scenario is what happens when the defenseman is trying to keep the puck in but it hops over their stick or something and pops out of the zone. That defenseman can't dick around with the puck on the outside of the blueline -- a defending player will poke it away and the opposing team will be gone the other way with numbers. So that defenseman must immediately get well away from any pressure, skating away from the offensive zone with the puck, possibly passing it to his/her partner, who has reacted quickly by racing back to give them an outlet, etc. All of this is to say that this idea of regrouping in the neutral zone when the puck comes out is fraught with decisions that can go very very wrong very quickly! Generally speaking, mistakes by defensemen on the offensive blueline can lead directly to goals against, and so this is a high-pressure part of the game for defensemen. Every decision about whether I as the defenseman on the attacking team can get to and control the puck before the defender gets there, and successfully keep the puck in the zone, must be correct, or I am going to look very bad and terrible things will happen. The opposing player will chip the puck past me, and his/her teammates, anticipating that I am going to lose the race/battle, will go "north" (out of the zone), leaving me (and my teammates deeper in the zone) stuck far behind the play.
I don’t know which I like better. Soccer/futbol where the “line” is the last defender or hockey where the “line” is an actual line. Imagine that rule on a pitch? Like if the line was the box and nobody could enter the box until the ball goes into the box. That sucks for right mids like me that rely on the box crashing runs. That literally takes away me yelling “get in the box” and just sending it.
12:12 this is a big part of the game. The creator hinted to it earlier, but the referees have a lot of discretion on the ice. If a something doesn’t effect the normal play they won’t blow their whistle. It’s commonly known as letting the boys play, of course anything egregious is called
@12:30 I understand your skepticism about icing calls being subjective but I do think that once you watch hockey more and recognize when the referees make the call, you’ll see that it’s usually easy to determine who’ll get there first. When I played youth hockey, especially high school level, we had that hybrid icing. I played center and if I thought I had a chance to beat a defender to the puck to beat the icing call, I’d be skating flat out to touch it and keep the puck alive and in play in their defensive zone.
When talking about onside/offside he never mentioned who has possession of the puck. Because if the player goes offside, but the defending team has the puck, he is only called offsides if his team regains possession while he is still offsides and they bring it into the attacking zone. Also, you were asking about the refs and icing: the main thing that comes up isn't really whether a puck is considered too slow, but rather which player will be able to reach the puck first to either call an icing or stop it. Since that's subjective to the ref's discretion.
You will see the offside rule used defensively - especially when a team is killing a penalty. A team that is pinned down by a tea on a power play only has to get the puck out of their zone to relive pressure as the attacking team must clear the zone and get reset, bringing the puck in onside. If you are watching a game - especially during power play, a team that clearing the puck from the zone will get a cheer from fans. Not only does it kill a few seconds of the penalty, its gives the defending team a chance to catch their breath. When you are pinned in your own zone during a power play, there is no chance to make line changes.Towards the end of a powerplay, the defensive team can become exhausted
Everyone calls it offside , not offside(s). It wasn't mentioned in the vid, but when offside occurs, the play is stopped by the whistle and the faceoff takes place in one of the dots outside the blue line.
1- Important aspect of the offside rule that he didn't mention is that the play is blown dead only when the attacking team touches the puck. For example, if a Player A in the neutral zone passes to Player B, who is offside in the attacking zone, the whistle will only be blown when Player B touches the puck. So if Player B doesn't catch the pass, he can theoretically go back onside and the play continues. This gets more complicated if Player A decides to carry the puck inside the zone while Player B is offside, but for some reason or another loses control of the puck before crossing the blue line. If he manages to gain the puck back, the linesmen have to determine when he got it back and if Player B was onside by then. 2- Yes, I wrote "linesmen". Offsides and icings are not called by referees but by dedicated on-ice officials. The quality of linesmen is generally recognized to be better than the not very good referees of the NHL. Linesmen are dressed like referees, except that their jerseys don't have any orange band on their arms.
This was really helpful for me, but I’m going to have to watch it a few times, I think. As a total newbie to hockey, it seems like a game that is really hard to officiate just because it’s all happening so fast, especially calling offsides. It must take watching a lot of games before you learn to see all the different things happening on the ice. I’m guessing most officials are former players, but I also have no idea what I’m talking about.
Regarding bad calls that have massive game changing effects, find a video of the Panthers vs Maple Leafs game 5 from a week ago and see how the last OT goal was scored 😂
Great Britain have got leagues and a national team. Recently they played in tier 2 of the World Championships in Nottingham and won. Next year they will be playing in the top group against teams like Canada, Finland, USA, Sweden, etc. There is a documentary about GB 2015-2018 inclusive, called Dare To Dream - th-cam.com/video/tQ_b5MtB_Fs/w-d-xo.html
That was a magical evening. It started with despair 'cause by the time I was able to pick my daughter up from school & get there the queue to get your photo taken with the Stanley Cup had closed. Luckily I recognised the "keeper of the cup"* and being the gent he is he let my daughter get a sneaky pic. Then *that* result. I just wish I could have bottled some of the atmosphere, it was beyond electric. When we got the empty net goal (they'd pulled the goalie for an extra attacker) the place went thermonuclear. 🎉 * It's an actual job, needed because the winning players each get a day with the cup so it needs some protection (it's had adventures that would make the Jules Rimet trophy whimper).
His video is quite good overall, but there a few things that I would explain differently. One is that ANY contact with the puck once it’s crossed the center line nullifies the icing. He also didn’t explain delayed offsides at all, I don’t think.
Thanks Marshall, I’ve been watching all the highlights. Past 2 games have been crazy, especially the 4 overtime game. I’ll always watch the highlights and post up my comments on Discord. Really is anyones at this point
When the puck is being iced, the referees will often waive off the icing, if they feel a player could have reached it before it crossed the line. Most times it is obvious the player wasn’t trying that hard to get to it. They were hoping for an icing! I’m the vast majority of times, it is the correct call.
I think you guys grasped it pretty well pretty quickly! As far as bad calls nhl vs nfl, in nhl the refs are way more involved for lots of reasons (they have to switch to be fight referees, they have to be skating and get out of the way the entire time so they're athletes too), nhl refs mic'd up is a good look into the difference
To answer your question about whether icing has caused problems in a Game 7: not so much. But offside calls have been a huge source of outrage and controversy since we now have video replay with multiple camera angles and endless places on the internet where fans can argue about what constitutes being fully over the line. There's been some pretty egregious examples of missed offsides changing the outcome of games. It's been such a problem that they made a rule to allow coaches to challenge the call on the ice once per game and force the league to re-review the video to determine if the correct call was made. It is kind of funny to see people zoom in and count pixels on the screen though
It’s SOMEWHAT similar to offside that you’re used to just that our line is stationary whereas yours is moving and based on defender position correct? Players can’t cheat ahead of that line for the sake of a cherry pick. Assuming that’s also why it’s in footie
Great videos, guys. Look up Brett Hull’s Stanley Cup winning goal from the early 2000’s. Highly controversial call (the wrong one in my opinion). Take care!
Big difference you see in hockey vs soccer is that hockey has 4 officials on the ice...2 referees with orange bands on their arms and 2 linesmen with no bands....referees are there to call penalties and goals and pay no attnetion to offside and icings, that is the job of the linesmen (linesmen can call certain penalties too but thats not worth getting into yet)
Review times vary depending on camera angles and how close the play was. If it's obvious, two minutes tops. If it's difficult to tell what happened, several minutes.
I had no problem with the time out. Each team only gets one per game, and normally both teams would save them in case they were down by one in the last minute of the game. If the coach determines that it is worth using it on this particular icing (both teams will commit multiple icings per game) instead of trying to save it, then he should be allowed to.
There are alot of replays that take 4-5 minutes maybe even longer but the clock always stops for replays in American sports. Im fairly new to soccer but the refs extra time added always seemed a bit arbitrary to me.
Even though icing calls are left to the referee's disgression there is not a ton of controversy when the ref makes a call. It's pretty much accepted by both teams 99% if the time, with little complaining.
If you ever want to check out a small guy with buttery, smooth hands, and could also stand up for himself. Jeremy Roenick, known as JR or Junior was the best. Look him up.
Icing calls are pretty benign, its usually pretty clear, and it is a judgement call. Messing up an off side calls is not benign as it does result in an odd man rush. (when the offensive team have more players in the zone than the defending team - a 2 on 1) and can frequently result in a goal. Reviewing a play does take some time 4 or 5 minutes seems right - it can take away from the tempo of the game. At least in the NHL it doesnt take away from the play time - the clock is only running when the puck is in play... I would rather live with a few bad calls and have a fast paced game, than have a 5 minute time out after every play. I remember years ago - a team was protecting a lead, and they finally got the puck out of the zone... The goalie grabbed one of the opposing players, and sat on him so that his team couldn't re-enter the zone, so his team could make a line change... It was hilarious, on the ESPN highlight reel for weeks...
Can British Guys Understand NHL / Hockey Offside and Icing Rules? (REACTION)
th-cam.com/video/bRb_5NHox70/w-d-xo.html
Major point left out for Offsides. It isn't just the act of the puck crossing the line that causes the offside. An offensive player has to touch the puck for the offside to occur. If they don't touch it, then this allows them to reset behind the line before re-entering the zone.
Yes this was driving me crazy, the dude was not explaining it well.
A way to help grasp it is to think of an offside pass in football/soccer, just that the last player on defense is the fixed blue line.
Appreciate this, thank you for the details. Makes complete sense.
That is a recent rule change AND if an "offensive" player takes too long to touch up it will still be called offsides.
@@jameshelm2847 The touching the puck thing has always been there since I've been watching (the mid-80s).
It's refreshing to see you guys have no problem calling football soccer. Knowing your audience and being that flexible is a plus.
they're just going back to their roots, the british called it soccer first 😏
Yeah it’s not an issue for us 😊
Imagine how annoying it would have to be if they had to clarify EVERY time which football they were talking about haha
The British called it Soccer first, it's an abbreviation of Association Football, it was originally Assoccer,but they dropped the A and first S over time and shortened it to Soccer.
@@supersasukemaniac I had an English neighbor who absolutely refused to believe this. LOL
A note about the slow moving puck not being called icing: the linesmen are typically pretty vocal about if they'll call icing it not. Typically, before the puck even reaches the line the linesmen has called out to the players if it will not be icing which allows the players to make the appropriate next move. It's pretty rare that an icing call is noticably bad, and even the borderline calls rarely elicit much more than a "come on, really?" kind of response.
@Corey you did your math wrong. Game 7 would be closer to the 14th. You’re new to this though keep it up, you’ll be right eventually
Hybrid icing is a relatively new thing and was created because too many defensemen were getting crushed. It used to be a literal race to the puck once it crossed the goal line, creating a situation with two players going full speed straight into a wall. Joni Pitkanen (whose jersey I have from when he played for the Flyers) had a career ending knee injury and hybrid icing was created the next season.
Thanks for this comment, sounds like a really smart move by the sport to introduce Hybrid Icing.
It was exciting, but nobody argued when they changed it. The game has gotten much faster in the past 20 years and this one just made sense.
The reason a line change is not allowed by the team that ices the puck is that many times it is an act of desperation for a line at the end of their shift who are tired and need to get off the ice. Forcing the tired players to stay on the ice is part of the "penalty" for icing.
Edit: The video explained that after my comment. Sorry for being redundant😁
Never redundant Michael, comments help reinforce what we’ve learnt. Appreciate it, thanks
Really respect you guys putting in the effort to approach these sports with open minds, hope you have continued success on this channel!
Thank you, we really appreciate it. Thanks for this comment!
One thing that will help while watching a game is that the officials are usually communicating with the players at all times, and this can be picked up by the microphones at ice level. There are four officials on the ice during a game, two referees and two linesmen. The linesmen are the ones without the orange sleeves and their job specifically is to call offsides plays and icing. In the event you are unsure of what may be happening in regards to these rules, look out for one of the linesman and see what call he’s making. You’ll typically see him with his arm raised in the air, yelling if a play is offsides or if the puck has been iced, and will either blow the whistle to call the play dead, or yell if the players are good or if there is no icing.
I started taking my 13 year old and eleven year old girls to a college hockey game about twenty years ago, due to the fact I got one time free tickets at work. I never explain offsides to them, but they ALWAYS recognized it when it happened. I asked them to explain offsides to me and they couldn’t do it. But they’d correctly yell “offside” when the opponents were guilty of being offsides.
And think of icing as anti tactic to again what happens similarly in footie, where once the ball gets handy to your net defenders just boot it as far as they can into the other teams end to safety and you end up with a ping pong game lol
That makes sense, thank you Corey!
“Icing is when the puck come down, before the other guy, my arm go up and play stop and start again.”
At least you don't go to the box, by yourself, you know, and feel shame.
You know you stupid when you do that, just some English pig with no brain.
One little addition...if you see the puck cross into the offensive zone with a player in an offside position and the play isn't blown dead, it is because the offensive team has to play the puck in the offensive zone with someone offsides for it to be called. This is delayed offisides and improves the flow of the game and allows the offensive players to "tag up" or get outside the blue line. Once all offensive players are outside the blue line at the same time then the delayed offside is no longer in effect and they can go back into the offensive zone to play the puck. I know that confuses things a bit but you will see this a lot in any NHL game.
Thanks Marc, makes perfect sense this one. Appreciate it! Cheers for this comment.
For the questions at 6:52, offside is only called if the puck is over the blue line. He's showing all the players falling back for simplicities sake, but if only one of them fell back to play the puck in the neutral zone while the others take their time getting out, it's fine if he plays it unless he brings it back across.
Appreciate the info 🙏🏼
Yeah but they all have to be behind the line before anyone takes it over, which is what he was asking. The entire team has to be onside before they make an entry.
@@DNReacts A nuance he didn't mention... The offside is only called when an offensive player touches the puck. It can be delayed. Say if a player dumps the puck into the offensive zone while one of his teammates is in there - the line ref would raise his arm to indicate a delayed offside. The offending player has the chance to exit the zone and reset the offside infraction.
Icing is where speed and sheer effort come out a lot. There is no penalty for icing if your team is a man down, or on the penalty kill. Fan favorites can often come from a smaller, fastest bottom 6 forward who beats a ton of icings. I’m looking at you Darren Helm
Thanks Ethan, appreciate this info.
I like the guy's explanation, I'm only a casual fan and didn't realize the nuance of the the blue line offside rule where you can get back onside as long as the puck hasn't cleared it
We enjoyed this one, felt his optimism was helping with our optimism. Glad you enjoyed
The referees do a pretty good job of calling icing, it’s probably the easiest and most best made call, icings are usually pretty obvious when you watch it a lot
Really impressed by the deep dive you guys are taking into hockey!
Great job guys. It's great to watch your appreciation and eagerness to learn.
Thank you, really appreciate your support!
You have to watch hockey right now. Four teams left. Both series game ones went to extra innings. The pitching has been exceptional. The Panthers and the Hurricanes played almost four full overtime periods (equivalent to two full games plus 20 minutes). Crazy!
I love how you guys used your general knowledge of sports, football especially ofc, and immediately understood what these rules were for, and how they affect the flow of the game, and the possible issues with refereeing and all that. Sports knowledge *is* transferable after all!
Thank you for this comment, this is great, we really appreciate it 🙏
Icing can also be useful to disrupt the flow of the team attacking you. If you’ve been trapped in your defensive zone and the other team is buzzing, ice the puck. It’s a risk/reward system. Don’t overthink offsides in hockey. It’s a lot simpler than it sounds. Hope you guys are watching the playoffs right now.
Makes sense, thanks Ethan. I’ve been catching all the highlights and posting my thoughts on Discord 👍 Really enjoying the Last 4 so far. Two cracking games, especially the opener between Panthers and Canes.
Great video! One detail I didn't see mentioned in comments is what exactly the offensive player(s) caught in the defensive zone on a delayed offside play have to do to "tag up" or "get onside." They don't need to completely exit the zone with every part of their bodies. All they need to do is get one skate on the blueline. Then the puck can be brought in again. The attacking player with the puck tries to time the zone entry so they can enter with speed just as their teammate tags up.
A similar rule applies to offsides in football too, if a player jumps offsides and gets back onside before the ball is snapped, they’re not offsides as long as they don’t make contact with an offensive player or cause an offensive player to react when they jump offsides.
In regards to the elongated reviews, there was actually a ten minute review on a play a couple of seasons ago for determining whether or not there should have been a stoppage in play. The best part: after reviewing it for ten minutes, they determined that the play was actually ineligible for review according to the rules and play just continued from where it left off.
You guys should check out a video on “worst NHL calls”. The early whistle ones right before a goal was scored are brutal
These sounds brutal, appreciate the suggestion, sounds a great one. Have added to our list!
7:50 yes you are right, regardless who plays the puck,,like say the Left Wing plays the puck but Right Wing was offsides, it's still called Offsides.
Thank you for the confirmation, this is great! 🤝
That seems like a good source for videos on hockey. The guy knew what he was talking about.
Thanks Kent, we enjoyed this one, have noted the channel for future reference too
One of the things to understand about offsides: it's to deter players from being cherrypickers/loafers. A few decades ago, offensive players used to just hang out near the blue line, even when their team was backchecking in the defensive zone. They'd just float around waiting for a breakout pass for a breakaway try, zero defense attempted. The offsides rule now makes it so that attacking players have to come back to the neutral zone if the puck goes back across the line, they can't just be floaters. A lot o hockey rules basically boil down to "Don't be a lazy asshole; you actually have to skate for it." Icing isn't that controversial; offsides can be as, if a team scores after being offsides, the goal can be waved off. It's also why coaches can now challenge an offsides call or non-call.
I can’t wait to get to some player reactions hopefully love to see you guys getting into the game a bit!
Definitely be coming soon, following all the highlights in the Stanley Cup. Been loving the action!
The best way to explain offside in hockey is it's basically the same concept as soccer. The blue line is like the last defender and instead of it be fluid with the position of the last defender it's a fixed line that doesn't move. If the puck enters the zone with an offside player, anyone in an offside position needs to clear the zone without touching the puck. The puck has to cross the blue line before anyone else who's not in control of it. This leads to the strategy of dump and chase. A player will send the puck in and chase trying to get possesion
As an older fan of hockey, there was a time the center line came into play. the puck had to be passed into each of the two center zones progressively and be possessed to be onside. Older fans will chuckle as they remember a 2 - line pass
Love seeing my guy Cheap Seats Sports! He does a great job covering the Kraken here in Seattle.
Love this, Kraken played a great tournament too. Appreciate the comment.
The Goalie often will raise his arm to signal his teammates when he sees the ref raise his arm signaling that he is about to blow the play dead for icing. Similarly if the goalie does nothing he is alerting his players that the puck is not iced and play will continue. The raising his arm by the ref before the icing also allows the goalie to know if he himself should attempt to play or cover up the puck himself
Loved the video. Sometimes trying to put into words what "offsides" and "icing" are can get confusing. People new to hockey usually struggle with this aspect of the game more than most other rules in my experience. It is super exciting when a team hits a long pass that is onsides for a breakaway, one on one, with the opposing goalie.
One point he missed as well is that the puck carrier can carry the puck over the blueline “backwards” as long as they have full control of the puck. In essence allowing the player to cross the blueline before the puck. Again though, only with full control of the puck.
Oh. The subjective in the icing isn’t much. It’s when a player is clearly dogging it as you say.
Love watching you guys, one thing they did not explain. I don’t think on this video is line 0:02 changes. Very important. Home team gets second line change so gets to see the first teams changes.
Thank you Robert, really appreciate your support! Thanks for this info, this is great.
It’s just refreshing to see somebody over on the other side of the pond learn about American sports. I am a Red Wings fan. I bleed red wings red lol. Anyway hockey is an exceptional sport. The speed of basketball, the summer say brutality of football, and the finesse of a ballet dancer. Keep watching and again look up Jeremy Roenick
There can be some questionable judgement calls by the refs for races to the puck for icing, but it’s a necessary evil. Some of the most gruesome injuries you’d see before were from players going full tilt into the boards to beat out the icing call, things like broken legs if they lose their footing. Even if those injuries rarely occurred, just not worth the risk to keep that part of the game in. I believe Joni Pitkanen breaking his leg in a race to the puck in 2013 was the last one to really push forward that rule change (which was implemented in the 2013/14 season).
Most icing calls are standard anyways though so it’s not the biggest deal, it’s usually pretty obvious who will get there first.
Damn right. Hockey can be brutal, and sometimes it didn’t look like the players were looking to the puck. It looked like players were looking to injure. If I want MMA, I’ll watch it.
Cheers from San Diego, lads. Great vid...as always.
Thank you Erik, really appreciate your support 🤝
Sometimes up to 10 minutes. Review is done by a room in Toronto for every game. If one player is offsides when the puck crosses, the play is considered offsides, and everyone needs to come back. Something they didn't cover about offside calls is that if a player is offside, and the puck crosses in but nobody on the offensive team plays it, then play continues. They can "cure" the delayed offside call by having all players exit the offensive zone again, generally giving possession of the puck to the defending team since if they play it while the play is offside they trigger a face off.
It is legal to pass to a player behind the blue line even if you have a teammate that is offside. Only if the person offside doesn't touch the puck, then play goes on as the other teammate gets onside
There is exception to the offside rule, which wasn't mentioned. If you control the puck to the, you can cross the blue line before the puck. So you may do a spin-o-rama, skate backwards etc. and it doesn't matter whether you or the puck cross the line first.
When I played in high school the goalie was given the chance to call icing or continue the play if one of our defense guys was close enough to make a play forward without an opposing player close
7:56 - yes, you're right. If any offensive player was offside at the moment the puck crossed the line, no offensive player can touch the puck in the zone. It's not like soccer where a player not involved in the play can be offside without consequence.
A point that was left out about offside is the "delayed offside" rule: play isn't actually stopped until the offensive team plays the puck. The offside violation can be cancelled if the offensive team "touches up" - that is, all of them return to the blue line such that no player is fully in the offensive zone. Once they have done this, they can now re-enter the zone. But it's the whole team, not just the players who were offside at the moment the puck entered the zone - the player who shot it in can't go chase the puck (even if he doesn't touch it before his teammates clear the zone); he has to wait for his teammates to touch up before going in.
Regarding icing and the subjective calls about whether a player could have gotten the puck first: this is actually a little bit worse with the "automatic" icing rules in the lower leagues than with the "hybrid" rules. With the hybrid rules, the defensive player has to skate hard after it to make sure the other team can't negate the icing, so it's usually pretty clear whether they would get there before the puck crosses the goal line. But under automatic rules, it's not at all unusual for a player to make a half-hearted effort to chase the puck in the hope that the officials will decide he couldn't have gotten there.
As a ref of those youth and beer leagues, it’s tough to officiate with delayed offsides, and even tougher to try and explain it.
Think of it as the defensive player. Let’s say that your team has “cleared the zone” (shot it over the blue line into the neutral zone) and an opponent immediately knocks it back in. Their entire team must now get back onside before they can pursue the puck. This creates a “free out”, meaning your team now has the entire defensive zone to set up a breakout play with no opponents attacking. But if you take too long and every offensive player has left the zone (aka. they all have at least part of one skate outside the blue line), they are free to begin attacking again.
There is one icing-ish related rule added after the 2005 lockout which results in a 2-minute delay of game penalty, if a player has the puck in the defensive zone and shoots it directly over the glass (unless it goes over the shorter glass where the benches/penalty box are).
Thanks for the info, appreciate this
A hockey video on penalties would be a good one for you guys
Thanks Marc, sounds great, have added to our watch list.
Regarding hybrid icing and the referee deciding whether a play is icing depending on whether or not the puck is rolling too slowly, the guy in the explanation video only partially explained touch icing. Prior to 2013, the NHL used "touch" icing instead of "hybrid" icing, which is, icing only occurred after a defending player touches the puck after it reaches the goal line. This resulted in a "race" to touch the puck first -- if an offensive player could get to the puck first, then, it's not icing and the play continues, but like the video said, this caused a lot of collisions along the boards, since the iced puck would almost always end up right in the corner which is why they wanted to change it.
At the time in 2013, international hockey rules universally used automatic icing (where icing is called as soon as the puck crosses the goal line no matter where any players are, which is still used in amateur leagues today), whereas touch icing was only used in North American hockey. After the development of hybrid icing, both the North American and international rulesets immediately decided that the subjective decision of the referee to wave off icing was unimportant since the referee does a good job in 99% of cases, compared to reducing the number of concussions resulting from hits along the boards in the game.
Personally I kind of like the now defunct touch icing system for its lack of ambiguity. But I understand where they are coming from.
The only good part of a delay to decide if there is an offsides or not after a goal is that a fair few teams play "Waiting is the Hardest Part" and the crowd sings along.
He explained the subjective icing a little funny. It's less about the speed of the puck than it is if the retrieving player is obviously dragging to let it roll down. It's rare.
The times where icing is waved because a defensive player could have gotten it are pretty few and far between, generally its only called when a player is OBVIOUSLY dogging it to try to get an icing on a play that typically would not result in one. I wish he would have shown some examples of real time plays for both rules but in general was explained well aside from not touching the puck beyond offside. No touch Icing was brought into the league due to a lot of injuries because of the high speed collisions on the end boards as a result of 2 players racing to touch the puck first. Up until a couple years ago Icing was decided whenever one player touched the puck, so if a defensive player touched it first its icing if an offensive player touched it, it was waived. Joni Pitkanen specifically had his career ended on a play that resulted in his ankle becoming shattered on a race to touch up for icing.
For the “you chould’ve gotten that puck” icing calls I’d say about 90-95% of the time it’s obvious enough that the linesman (because refs (guys with orange arm bands) are not the ones calling icing) give a verbal cue, usually “NO NO” as the puck is making its way down the ice.
A lot of the reviews take a while because the play in a inch or two offside.. With the speed of the game the linesman has a split second to call an offside to either stop play or let it go on. The linesmen don't have zoom, freeze frame or five differnt angles when making the call.
In the NHL, the players are really good at icing the puck to the perfect distance to where it slows down before the goal line which makes the opposing team capable of getting the puck without it being an icing call
Ah this sounds quality Zac. Thanks for the info, haven’t seen too much icing yet as mainly seeing highlights at the moment. Hoping to catch some full games if possible.
I don’t know if you fellows see it, but the demonstration players that the presenter is using are Geordie Howe and Wayne Gretzky.
The blue line is the hard line. If an onside player plays it to an offside player its offside. Thats where dumping the puck behind the net comes into play so the onside player can let everyone touch onside, cuz everyone has to touch onside before playing into the offensive zone. Then you can go back in and get aggressive in the offensive zone
The icing 6 one way half a dozen the other it usually has to be egregious. If the puck is slowly moving and so is the defender to let it get to the goal line, they won't call it. But thats why they introduced hybrid icing. Because if the attackers want to go for it then the defense does as well instead of letting it dwindle into icing
In the NHL they review every goal and challenge at the NHL headquarters in Toronto. So yes it can take some time to get the call, most of the time it takes approximately mins or so.
Thanks Ian, this is really interesting to know. Appreciate it!
Overall, I’d say NHL officiating is fairly solid. Much better than the NFL. NHL officials are full time so this is their primary job. For NFL officials, it’s a part time job. Biggest issues today would be the subjectivity of penalty calls but no way around that in any sport. With replays now, offsides controversies (which were generally minimal even before replay) are nonexistent.
Maybe for a hockey night in Canada or any random game you guys could do a live stream with viewers and everybody can chat about the game and answer questions
Re slow moving puck: Most of the time they only call no icing when it is pretty obvious. There are a lot of times a player sprinting at max speed might catch up to a puck, but it’s not called because they don’t enforce it to that degree. It’s if he reasonably could have gotten to it at moderate speed (the refs know). Some players are known for milking it and they might get a free warning before it’s called next time.
But often if they can get to it in time they will because 1- the other team is sprinting towards it to try to cancel out and get possession in the offensive zone (leads to race to the puck, which ends at hash marks to avoid collision into the end boards) and 2- if you can get to it and maintain control your team now has possession (you can arrange for a line change and start an offensive rush with control)
Icing also happens if you are trying a long pass down ice but they the puck misses your teammate.
He should’ve mentioned the phrase “clearing the zone.” It is the term for when the defending team tries to get the puck into the neutral zone (without icing it) to force the offensive team to “check up” or “touch up” (all offensive players have to reach the blue line/neutral zone and follow the puck in once again).
Finally, both calls are usually made via the “delayed” method, where they put their hand up and see what happens before blowing the whistle. A delayed icing can be canceled out by winning the race. A delayed offside ends if the offside team does not touch the puck while play is offside and they check up to cancel it out.
In terms of how the referees are, while every fan will have the claims of the refs being biased against their team, for the most part I think they are solid. There are a lot of subjective penalty calls in hockey and the games moves at such a fast pace, so questionable/incorrect calls will certainly happen. There was a pretty bad issue earlier in these playoffs, where the referee blew the whistle because he thought the puck was covered by the goaltender, but then it wasn't and the attacking team scored. But the goal didn't count because the whistle had blown.
One thing I've not seen mentioned is that when an offside is particularly blatant (eg the linesman had his arm up to signal there's a player in an offside position, and usually shouting to the players who's offside as well). It's fine for the offside players teammate to play the puck into the zone (eg, dumping it into the corner), but if the offside player, despite the warnings, doesn't leave the puck then the officials can call it a deliberate offside. When this happens instead of the face off being just outside the attacking zone, the face off goes all the way back to one of the circles by the offending teams goal.
The persistent rumour that the goalie wedgies the offending players after the game have never be conclusively disproved.
You have to remember that hockey has been thriving in the UK for decades. There are a lot of fans who would never go watch soccer or rugby, and they are incredibly knowledgeable re the rules and history of the game……👍🏴🏒🇨🇦
Offsides is actually a pretty easy call in Hockey, the two Linesmen (the two Refs without the Orange Disks on the sleeves) are in charge of the Neutral Zone, when play is at the Blue Line the Linesman stands on the line and can easily determine if someone is offsides once the puck crosses the line.
Thank you, really appreciate the comment and info.
It's easy. I'd make you understand it in 2 minutes.
Offside -you can't eventer the offensive zone (go over the blueline) before the puck.
Icing - you can't dump the puck from further than the half way line into the offensive zone unless you're the first one to pick it up along the boards. If the defenders get to it first then it's icing.
Think of Hockey offsides like Soccer Offsides, but there is an actual physical line, as long as you don't play the pass from an offside position at the time of the pass your fine.
A slow moving puck being offsides is usually called correctly. But which player can get to the iced puck first has often been up to debate and had me screaming at the TV.
The other thing about all this is that the rule creates a lot of strategy issues for play. Take defensemen for example. In the offensive zone, the two defensemen on the attacking team have the job of keeping the puck in at the blueline. This is called "manning the points." As a defenseman, if the puck comes to you just inside the blueline, and you have a defending player right on you, you have to make a very sure play to avoid turning the puck over and giving up a breakaway or odd-man rush the other way. In this situation, your defensive partner should "back you up" by dropping back well into the neutral zone, or (more aggressively) making themselves available for a pass inside the zone, anytime s/he sees you're going to be under pressure or get in trouble just inside the blueline trying to keep the puck in. If my partner is about to get into trouble trying to keep the puck in, in other words, I have to take action, either by giving them an outlet to relieve the pressure, or by backing off in case they cough it up. Another scenario is what happens when the defenseman is trying to keep the puck in but it hops over their stick or something and pops out of the zone. That defenseman can't dick around with the puck on the outside of the blueline -- a defending player will poke it away and the opposing team will be gone the other way with numbers. So that defenseman must immediately get well away from any pressure, skating away from the offensive zone with the puck, possibly passing it to his/her partner, who has reacted quickly by racing back to give them an outlet, etc. All of this is to say that this idea of regrouping in the neutral zone when the puck comes out is fraught with decisions that can go very very wrong very quickly! Generally speaking, mistakes by defensemen on the offensive blueline can lead directly to goals against, and so this is a high-pressure part of the game for defensemen. Every decision about whether I as the defenseman on the attacking team can get to and control the puck before the defender gets there, and successfully keep the puck in the zone, must be correct, or I am going to look very bad and terrible things will happen. The opposing player will chip the puck past me, and his/her teammates, anticipating that I am going to lose the race/battle, will go "north" (out of the zone), leaving me (and my teammates deeper in the zone) stuck far behind the play.
Usually the biggest problem with officials is non-calls. icing non-calls are usually pretty obvious.
Yeah,the review rule is like VAR in Soccer, it is such a pain.
I don’t know which I like better. Soccer/futbol where the “line” is the last defender or hockey where the “line” is an actual line. Imagine that rule on a pitch? Like if the line was the box and nobody could enter the box until the ball goes into the box. That sucks for right mids like me that rely on the box crashing runs. That literally takes away me yelling “get in the box” and just sending it.
12:12 this is a big part of the game. The creator hinted to it earlier, but the referees have a lot of discretion on the ice. If a something doesn’t effect the normal play they won’t blow their whistle. It’s commonly known as letting the boys play, of course anything egregious is called
@12:30 I understand your skepticism about icing calls being subjective but I do think that once you watch hockey more and recognize when the referees make the call, you’ll see that it’s usually easy to determine who’ll get there first. When I played youth hockey, especially high school level, we had that hybrid icing. I played center and if I thought I had a chance to beat a defender to the puck to beat the icing call, I’d be skating flat out to touch it and keep the puck alive and in play in their defensive zone.
Don't watch hockey that often but am I correct in thinking that the puck handler can cross the blue line before the puck does?
When talking about onside/offside he never mentioned who has possession of the puck. Because if the player goes offside, but the defending team has the puck, he is only called offsides if his team regains possession while he is still offsides and they bring it into the attacking zone.
Also, you were asking about the refs and icing: the main thing that comes up isn't really whether a puck is considered too slow, but rather which player will be able to reach the puck first to either call an icing or stop it. Since that's subjective to the ref's discretion.
You will see the offside rule used defensively - especially when a team is killing a penalty. A team that is pinned down by a tea on a power play only has to get the puck out of their zone to relive pressure as the attacking team must clear the zone and get reset, bringing the puck in onside. If you are watching a game - especially during power play, a team that clearing the puck from the zone will get a cheer from fans. Not only does it kill a few seconds of the penalty, its gives the defending team a chance to catch their breath. When you are pinned in your own zone during a power play, there is no chance to make line changes.Towards the end of a powerplay, the defensive team can become exhausted
Everyone calls it offside , not offside(s). It wasn't mentioned in the vid, but when offside occurs, the play is stopped by the whistle and the faceoff takes place in one of the dots outside the blue line.
1- Important aspect of the offside rule that he didn't mention is that the play is blown dead only when the attacking team touches the puck. For example, if a Player A in the neutral zone passes to Player B, who is offside in the attacking zone, the whistle will only be blown when Player B touches the puck. So if Player B doesn't catch the pass, he can theoretically go back onside and the play continues. This gets more complicated if Player A decides to carry the puck inside the zone while Player B is offside, but for some reason or another loses control of the puck before crossing the blue line. If he manages to gain the puck back, the linesmen have to determine when he got it back and if Player B was onside by then.
2- Yes, I wrote "linesmen". Offsides and icings are not called by referees but by dedicated on-ice officials. The quality of linesmen is generally recognized to be better than the not very good referees of the NHL. Linesmen are dressed like referees, except that their jerseys don't have any orange band on their arms.
This was really helpful for me, but I’m going to have to watch it a few times, I think. As a total newbie to hockey, it seems like a game that is really hard to officiate just because it’s all happening so fast, especially calling offsides. It must take watching a lot of games before you learn to see all the different things happening on the ice. I’m guessing most officials are former players, but I also have no idea what I’m talking about.
Regarding bad calls that have massive game changing effects, find a video of the Panthers vs Maple Leafs game 5 from a week ago and see how the last OT goal was scored 😂
Great Britain have got leagues and a national team. Recently they played in tier 2 of the World Championships in Nottingham and won. Next year they will be playing in the top group against teams like Canada, Finland, USA, Sweden, etc. There is a documentary about GB 2015-2018 inclusive, called Dare To Dream - th-cam.com/video/tQ_b5MtB_Fs/w-d-xo.html
That was a magical evening. It started with despair 'cause by the time I was able to pick my daughter up from school & get there the queue to get your photo taken with the Stanley Cup had closed. Luckily I recognised the "keeper of the cup"* and being the gent he is he let my daughter get a sneaky pic. Then *that* result. I just wish I could have bottled some of the atmosphere, it was beyond electric. When we got the empty net goal (they'd pulled the goalie for an extra attacker) the place went thermonuclear. 🎉
* It's an actual job, needed because the winning players each get a day with the cup so it needs some protection (it's had adventures that would make the Jules Rimet trophy whimper).
His video is quite good overall, but there a few things that I would explain differently. One is that ANY contact with the puck once it’s crossed the center line nullifies the icing. He also didn’t explain delayed offsides at all, I don’t think.
1999 Stanley cup final is a good example of a bad call you should do penalty calls next
Thank you. Have added this to our watch list, sounds a good watch
@@DNReacts and it was game 6 Stanley cup final in triple overtime
You guys should check out some games right now! Some of the best hockey I've ever seen. It's anyone's guess as to who will win the cup.
Thanks Marshall, I’ve been watching all the highlights. Past 2 games have been crazy, especially the 4 overtime game. I’ll always watch the highlights and post up my comments on Discord. Really is anyones at this point
@@DNReacts looks like we are going to have another one of those marathon games tonight. I'm in the 3rd period and both teams look gassed
When the puck is being iced, the referees will often waive off the icing, if they feel a player could have reached it before it crossed the line. Most times it is obvious the player wasn’t trying that hard to get to it. They were hoping for an icing! I’m the vast majority of times, it is the correct call.
I think you guys grasped it pretty well pretty quickly! As far as bad calls nhl vs nfl, in nhl the refs are way more involved for lots of reasons (they have to switch to be fight referees, they have to be skating and get out of the way the entire time so they're athletes too), nhl refs mic'd up is a good look into the difference
To answer your question about whether icing has caused problems in a Game 7: not so much. But offside calls have been a huge source of outrage and controversy since we now have video replay with multiple camera angles and endless places on the internet where fans can argue about what constitutes being fully over the line. There's been some pretty egregious examples of missed offsides changing the outcome of games. It's been such a problem that they made a rule to allow coaches to challenge the call on the ice once per game and force the league to re-review the video to determine if the correct call was made. It is kind of funny to see people zoom in and count pixels on the screen though
It’s SOMEWHAT similar to offside that you’re used to just that our line is stationary whereas yours is moving and based on defender position correct? Players can’t cheat ahead of that line for the sake of a cherry pick. Assuming that’s also why it’s in footie
Thank you for the info, really
Appreciate it!
Great videos, guys. Look up Brett Hull’s Stanley Cup winning goal from the early 2000’s. Highly controversial call (the wrong one in my opinion). Take care!
Does him saying "offsides" bother anyone else? 😂
Big difference you see in hockey vs soccer is that hockey has 4 officials on the ice...2 referees with orange bands on their arms and 2 linesmen with no bands....referees are there to call penalties and goals and pay no attnetion to offside and icings, that is the job of the linesmen (linesmen can call certain penalties too but thats not worth getting into yet)
Review times vary depending on camera angles and how close the play was. If it's obvious, two minutes tops. If it's difficult to tell what happened, several minutes.
If you watch some games you'll see pretty quickly the offsides rule determines mostly how players play hockey
I had no problem with the time out. Each team only gets one per game, and normally both teams would save them in case they were down by one in the last minute of the game. If the coach determines that it is worth using it on this particular icing (both teams will commit multiple icings per game) instead of trying to save it, then he should be allowed to.
It’s the same as soccer; but the blue line in soccer is the last defender, for offsides
There are alot of replays that take 4-5 minutes maybe even longer but the clock always stops for replays in American sports. Im fairly new to soccer but the refs extra time added always seemed a bit arbitrary to me.
Cheap Seats Sports also has good videos explaining the different penalties.
Even though icing calls are left to the referee's disgression there is not a ton of controversy when the ref makes a call. It's pretty much accepted by both teams 99% if the time, with little complaining.
If you ever want to check out a small guy with buttery, smooth hands, and could also stand up for himself. Jeremy Roenick, known as JR or Junior was the best. Look him up.
Icing calls are pretty benign, its usually pretty clear, and it is a judgement call.
Messing up an off side calls is not benign as it does result in an odd man rush. (when the offensive team have more players in the zone than the defending team - a 2 on 1) and can frequently result in a goal.
Reviewing a play does take some time 4 or 5 minutes seems right - it can take away from the tempo of the game. At least in the NHL it doesnt take away from the play time - the clock is only running when the puck is in play...
I would rather live with a few bad calls and have a fast paced game, than have a 5 minute time out after every play.
I remember years ago - a team was protecting a lead, and they finally got the puck out of the zone... The goalie grabbed one of the opposing players, and sat on him so that his team couldn't re-enter the zone, so his team could make a line change... It was hilarious, on the ESPN highlight reel for weeks...