for the cultural appropriation i understand why you see it that way however you have to consider context. it depends on how for example black americans or black people in general are treated regarding their culture prior to it being copied not just the intent of the artists who copy. an example would be hair styles, many black kids, teens and adults in the states are punished for wearing their traditional hairstyles like braids, cornrows, dreadlocks etc like theyll not be hired because of their hairstyles, theyd be fired for wearing them or suspended from school or forced to cut their hair, or wear styles that damages the hair like straightening it etc so when they see other races wearing them with no problems and even being praised for it they rightfully get upset because theyre not afforded that. im sure you would feel the same if you were punished for wearing chinese dresses and then you saw other races wearing them with no problems. other times the copying is done without any respect like them not paying the original writers/producers if they sample a hip hop song or if they mis use AAVE (African American Vernacular English) which is a real language with grammar rules just like any other language so when they see people calling it as slang, or gen z language, or internet language its hurtful and harmful because those same people who speak that language for generations (their grandparents speak that way day to day years before the words became "trends") then get looked at as a mockery whos using internet slang instead of a respected language. example the word shook means to be extremely shocked by something or an experience you've had. i learned about it years ago maybe early 2000s when i listened to shook ones part 2 by the hip hop duo Mobb Deep from new york. im not black but i learned the word through its rightful context i dont use it cause its not my language. i see people all over the internet even armys (like when people say jungshook) who arent black using words like this as simple "slang" and not listening to black armys or black people in general when they ask us to stop misusing their language. almost every "slang" word people use on the internet is actually AAVE. this is why a lot of people dont like black pink or YG artists in particular because almost every song misuses aave. example "when we pull up you know its a shut down" pull up is AAVE and doesnt make sense the way they use it in that song. and its why there was so much commotion when jimin used "opps" in set me free part 2 which means enemies or oppositions. the sad thing is jimin used it properly and actually many black armys said he can use it due to the nature and context of set me free part 2. he has so many haters and he does have people who threaten him all the time so in a way it was okay for him to use. another example is jungkook using "finna" in my time. that one was approved by a black producer im not sure about that one as i saw many who were 50/50 with opinions. but a lot of kpop groups and non black artists in general use words, hairstyles etc they shouldnt be using. it maybe would be different if black people werent punished or demonized when they used their own culture similarly to how africans from various african countries feel similar to you with their culture they dont mind when people wear their clothes or hairstyles, same with jamacians. this is another reason for a controversy when tae wore a rasta hat with dreads he was personally given by a jamacian man who sells them to tourists but it upset black americans due to the way black people are treated in the states. but in the end the two sides of black armys understood each other and tae was seen as appreciating jamacian culture not appropriating it. another thing would be using a blaccent (black accent) many say namjoon uses one but thats simply how he speaks even when he speaks korean he has a deeper voice. but for example the way lisa and jennie rap but they doesnt speak that way in normal conversations so its like theyre putting on a costume to "play" being a rapper. like bts rappers still sound like themselves when they rap they dont try to put on a costume and they spoke about that in their lyrics in cypher 1 hobi says "rapper costume? NO" because bts were being accused of that during debut era when namjoon was wearing those hairstyles and when he spoke english in his first english log and a few other times he sounded like he was trying to be someone else. then he was educated and now especially he speaks normally. i think it also was because he used rappers to help him learn english i know he says he used friends tv show but its clear he used rappers too so his natural speaking voice is just like that. but even so yoongi and hobi dont sound that different when they rap, sing or speak in their natural voices. whereas you can see a clear difference for the black pink rappers. it comes off as racist or very ignorant it would be like someone trying to imitate a asian accent when reciting lines of a asian character from a movie instead of just saying the lines normal in their own voice. it may not be intended as racist but still is racist and feels like youre mocking. or like when people snap their fingers and go "gurrrl" being very sassy it feels like theyre mocking black women. theres a lot of examples that fall under appropriation and then bleed into racism. thats why majority of international kpop fans dont like jay park and why even though he was signed to jay z's label he didnt get far in the american industry. not for the same reason bts struggled. bts struggled due to real unfairness and racism towards asians while jay park was shut out cause many felt he didnt respect hip hop culture. hopefully this helped you understand a bit better :)
Thank you for the explanation. I honestly have not dived into all the background and history, and I really was not aware of AAVE. Like many, I thought they were slang as we often hear them in movies and TV shows. I have to say most of us are not knowledgable on the background of all these and will often step into the realm of potentially offending others without knowing. Thanks again!
As you said: context. Because people outside the USA do not have that context. But they are also - usually at least - not at fault for this context. And sometimes the reaction to people using for example the hairstyle is way over the top for people just appreciating this or having a similar culture - not that US Americans seem to care that they did not invent the wheel. What I mean is that the debate about cultural appropiation actually begun with a simple wish: The wish to live their own culture without it being forbidden/punished for it or being looked down for it. That people who did not understand it trying to find context saw people using it as a gimick and how cheap that was and practical invented the phrase while actually speaking over POC voices. Here is my point: I live in Germany and like many other countries we have celebrations and fairs. At some of them there are black women offering (selling actually) their art to braid hair. They do not differentiate if the customer is black or not. There are native South Americans that sell their clothes, dreamcatchers , music etc. as well. If you speak about cultural appropiation where does it actually end? Food? music? Languages? Symbols? Tradiotional clothes in Europe? I get the context in the USA or Canada. But SK where possibly never a black slave set a foot in? In most countries we appreciate and enjoy other cultures - especially when it seems so freely given. For example I know how black people celebrated "Black Panther" in the USA: Finally a black superhero that was not a criminal. But blogs in Africa called it cultural approciation. Why? Because Wakanda is in Africa but the actors were all (US) American. Here their skin color did not count. The line between appropiation and appreciation is very thin and sometimes people do not agree where it runs. Not to mention that I see from the people calling that out also opinions that are Orientalist/Xenophobic/colonist - especially when they only aknowledge their own context - for example about Koreans like the all-time favorite "white-washing" of pictures when that is based on old Korean beauty standards or protest what can be shown as "K-Drama"/K-documentary as they press their own image on the category. It's complicated (and no I would never presume to have that kind of hairstyle. It's just an example).
Can't imagine faker also top 4 elite of Korea ofcourse he won 4x worlds champs 2013 2015 2016 2x msi champs 2016 2017 Iem champ Rift rivals champ Asian games 2023 🥇 10x lck champs
Black pink in my opinion is great as kpop, but it doesn't fit in as representatives of SK. One is Thai, two others didn't even grow up in SK and the only one who is completely Korean is very forgotten by her own fans ! So, no, I don't believe in them as great representatives of the country! From kpop? Yes, they are the most popular GG worldwide of all time .
Jpark is a joke, i can never listen to him seriously, he is like a mockery, trying to present himslef seriously. When the comedy act presents itself like comedy it is authentic comedy, but here he just parhetic and laughable and frankly not a good rapper, just look at face Hobi made whan jpark tried to rap over his melody😂
As we would say he was extremely diplomatic with his answer to Jay Parks question.
for the cultural appropriation i understand why you see it that way however you have to consider context. it depends on how for example black americans or black people in general are treated regarding their culture prior to it being copied not just the intent of the artists who copy.
an example would be hair styles, many black kids, teens and adults in the states are punished for wearing their traditional hairstyles like braids, cornrows, dreadlocks etc like theyll not be hired because of their hairstyles, theyd be fired for wearing them or suspended from school or forced to cut their hair, or wear styles that damages the hair like straightening it etc so when they see other races wearing them with no problems and even being praised for it they rightfully get upset because theyre not afforded that.
im sure you would feel the same if you were punished for wearing chinese dresses and then you saw other races wearing them with no problems.
other times the copying is done without any respect like them not paying the original writers/producers if they sample a hip hop song or if they mis use AAVE (African American Vernacular English) which is a real language with grammar rules just like any other language so when they see people calling it as slang, or gen z language, or internet language its hurtful and harmful because those same people who speak that language for generations (their grandparents speak that way day to day years before the words became "trends") then get looked at as a mockery whos using internet slang instead of a respected language.
example the word shook means to be extremely shocked by something or an experience you've had.
i learned about it years ago maybe early 2000s when i listened to shook ones part 2 by the hip hop duo Mobb Deep from new york.
im not black but i learned the word through its rightful context i dont use it cause its not my language. i see people all over the internet even armys (like when people say jungshook) who arent black using words like this as simple "slang" and not listening to black armys or black people in general when they ask us to stop misusing their language. almost every "slang" word people use on the internet is actually AAVE.
this is why a lot of people dont like black pink or YG artists in particular because almost every song misuses aave. example "when we pull up you know its a shut down" pull up is AAVE and doesnt make sense the way they use it in that song. and its why there was so much commotion when jimin used "opps" in set me free part 2 which means enemies or oppositions. the sad thing is jimin used it properly and actually many black armys said he can use it due to the nature and context of set me free part 2. he has so many haters and he does have people who threaten him all the time so in a way it was okay for him to use. another example is jungkook using "finna" in my time. that one was approved by a black producer im not sure about that one as i saw many who were 50/50 with opinions. but a lot of kpop groups and non black artists in general use words, hairstyles etc they shouldnt be using. it maybe would be different if black people werent punished or demonized when they used their own culture similarly to how africans from various african countries feel similar to you with their culture they dont mind when people wear their clothes or hairstyles, same with jamacians. this is another reason for a controversy when tae wore a rasta hat with dreads he was personally given by a jamacian man who sells them to tourists but it upset black americans due to the way black people are treated in the states. but in the end the two sides of black armys understood each other and tae was seen as appreciating jamacian culture not appropriating it.
another thing would be using a blaccent (black accent) many say namjoon uses one but thats simply how he speaks even when he speaks korean he has a deeper voice. but for example the way lisa and jennie rap but they doesnt speak that way in normal conversations so its like theyre putting on a costume to "play" being a rapper. like bts rappers still sound like themselves when they rap they dont try to put on a costume and they spoke about that in their lyrics in cypher 1 hobi says "rapper costume? NO" because bts were being accused of that during debut era when namjoon was wearing those hairstyles and when he spoke english in his first english log and a few other times he sounded like he was trying to be someone else. then he was educated and now especially he speaks normally. i think it also was because he used rappers to help him learn english i know he says he used friends tv show but its clear he used rappers too so his natural speaking voice is just like that. but even so yoongi and hobi dont sound that different when they rap, sing or speak in their natural voices. whereas you can see a clear difference for the black pink rappers.
it comes off as racist or very ignorant it would be like someone trying to imitate a asian accent when reciting lines of a asian character from a movie instead of just saying the lines normal in their own voice. it may not be intended as racist but still is racist and feels like youre mocking. or like when people snap their fingers and go "gurrrl" being very sassy it feels like theyre mocking black women. theres a lot of examples that fall under appropriation and then bleed into racism. thats why majority of international kpop fans dont like jay park and why even though he was signed to jay z's label he didnt get far in the american industry. not for the same reason bts struggled. bts struggled due to real unfairness and racism towards asians while jay park was shut out cause many felt he didnt respect hip hop culture. hopefully this helped you understand a bit better :)
Thank you for the explanation. I honestly have not dived into all the background and history, and I really was not aware of AAVE. Like many, I thought they were slang as we often hear them in movies and TV shows. I have to say most of us are not knowledgable on the background of all these and will often step into the realm of potentially offending others without knowing. Thanks again!
As you said: context.
Because people outside the USA do not have that context.
But they are also - usually at least - not at fault for this context. And sometimes the reaction to people using for example the hairstyle is way over the top for people just appreciating this or having a similar culture - not that US Americans seem to care that they did not invent the wheel.
What I mean is that the debate about cultural appropiation actually begun with a simple wish:
The wish to live their own culture without it being forbidden/punished for it or being looked down for it.
That people who did not understand it trying to find context saw people using it as a gimick and how cheap that was and practical invented the phrase while actually speaking over POC voices.
Here is my point:
I live in Germany and like many other countries we have celebrations and fairs. At some of them there are black women offering (selling actually) their art to braid hair.
They do not differentiate if the customer is black or not.
There are native South Americans that sell their clothes, dreamcatchers , music etc. as well.
If you speak about cultural appropiation where does it actually end?
Food? music? Languages? Symbols? Tradiotional clothes in Europe?
I get the context in the USA or Canada. But SK where possibly never a black slave set a foot in?
In most countries we appreciate and enjoy other cultures - especially when it seems so freely given.
For example I know how black people celebrated "Black Panther" in the USA: Finally a black superhero that was not a criminal.
But blogs in Africa called it cultural approciation. Why?
Because Wakanda is in Africa but the actors were all (US) American. Here their skin color did not count.
The line between appropiation and appreciation is very thin and sometimes people do not agree where it runs.
Not to mention that I see from the people calling that out also opinions that are Orientalist/Xenophobic/colonist - especially when they only aknowledge their own context - for example about Koreans like the all-time favorite "white-washing" of pictures when that is based on old Korean beauty standards or protest what can be shown as "K-Drama"/K-documentary as they press their own image on the category.
It's complicated (and no I would never presume to have that kind of hairstyle. It's just an example).
Wow, as a black person you are very informed.
You should react to faker story you gonna know how he started becoming pro
You are correct.
Can't imagine faker also top 4 elite of Korea ofcourse he won 4x worlds champs 2013 2015 2016
2x msi champs 2016 2017
Iem champ
Rift rivals champ
Asian games 2023 🥇
10x lck champs
Black pink in my opinion is great as kpop, but it doesn't fit in as representatives of SK. One is Thai, two others didn't even grow up in SK and the only one who is completely Korean is very forgotten by her own fans !
So, no, I don't believe in them as great representatives of the country!
From kpop?
Yes, they are the most popular GG worldwide of all time .
That’s kinda racist
Jpark is a joke, i can never listen to him seriously, he is like a mockery, trying to present himslef seriously. When the comedy act presents itself like comedy it is authentic comedy, but here he just parhetic and laughable and frankly not a good rapper, just look at face Hobi made whan jpark tried to rap over his melody😂