Pro tip: If you can remember that "one time" you did XYZ, it's almost certainly because it was highly unusual for you to do that. If you spend all day everyday doing something, you don't feel the need to have examples at the ready because it just all blurs together. Or, it just feels easy and obvious to the point that you don't feel it's worthy of comment.
It was a special occurance that normally doesn't happen, which is why it stands out and suprises the person. One almost never notices the other way around unless you are willing to pay attention to what is going on within. Excuse my writing
For me i dont notice it. The times when i can "recall" using Ni as an intj is when others called me out on something or it was a humorous situation where i now have a strong memory as others constantly bring it up. However i struggle to be sure in my typing cause i "cant really remember" or "feel confident" in my deduction. Im very sure of my type i just also haven't found anyone trustworthy information to provide the Se to support my Ni for this situation.
@@sushigooo8061 i feel this as an ENTP, I actually question my type literally all the time- and feel like I am in the small minority that actually does see that I am intense with organizing and obsess about details and most of my stress comes from organizing my environment. Of course I have times when I can make a good plan but executing it is not the same as an Si dom by any means. I also question more so if I am a double decider when i struggle to make decisions based on self/tribe- but maybe its Its usually a struggle to make a quick decision off of Ti or Fi but could also be me trying to look at it through Ne or Si lens
My entire family laughed at me when I said I was an isfp initially. I had done so much research and self-reflection. They weren’t wrong- I’m an esfp. NOTHING about me is introverted. I thought I was because I needed a few hours at night to actually rest for once in the damn day 😆
I get comments from extraverts that their first impression of me is that I’m super boring and a prude. Introverted types say they see me as fun and adventurous. Other people’s subjective opinions aren’t always “more accurate”, they just come from a different set of assumptions and comparisons that need to be taken into account just like my own.
I totally agree! When I became a supervisor at my it really became apparent to me how many impressions people have of you that are wildly different from the next person’s.
Look, the strongest opinions of you as an individual come from within. Don't worry about the opinions of others. If you are conscious of the fact that experience is subjective, you will have a great "time".
Those are all inherently subjective descriptors too though. What I've realized more and more over time is that certain commonly used terms have completely different definitions to different types/people. e.g. both Ti doms and Te doms may utilize the criticism "stupid," but they each mean something completely different by the term "stupid." What is a "prude" to one person could be adventurous to another. Another issue is that people tend to project, especially when it comes to interpreting things like motivations or emotions. People may notice you doing something, but as for the reason you are doing it, that's basically some make-believe story they invent to fill in the gaps in their understanding. And sometimes it's as egocentric and myopic as "What you said made me feel angry, therefore you must have said that just to piss me off. You're _trying_ to make me angry, intentionally." Or other times it's just an innocent failure to realize not everyone is like them. Like, "I would feel bored if I did what you did, therefore you must be bored," or "I would only do that under xyz conditions, therefore xyz must be true." I think that in attempting to collect outside perspectives, it's important to get at the observations that are as "objective" as humanly possible, like "What do I spend the majority of my time doing?" and not "why do you think I do that?" But you're right that information from other people can certainly be "dirty data" as well -- just "dirty" in different ways.
I remember watching one of your videos 2 years ago stressing that people always think they're the opposite type & I thought " haha, yeah what idiots, I'm definitely an ISTP though " ... 2 years later i realise I'm an INFJ. I was so certain XD
Lmao, first time I learn about these cognitive functions, I was like "I'm definitely a savior Fi." But all of my family was like "what the fck!?", lol. They all see my Te... and I'm the only one who can see my Fi. I understand completely what they're saying here, and learnt it somewhat the hard way.
😭 For the longest time, I thought I was an Infj with savior Fe, tribe over self. Then an infj, ni/ti. But after some DEEP introspection, turns out I'm an INFP, ne/si. I have mistaken my demon TE for Savior FE because I thought of myself as a NICE PERSON. I assume what is a (savior Fi) inconvenience to me is an inconvenience to others. And the reaction to that is doing what (Demon Te) worked best for others.
I'm so scared that I've mistyped myself too. I currently think I am a classic INTJ. The idea that I could be that wrong about myself is so scary. Also, I'm just addicted to the description of the INTJ, and all the memes. Imagine I'd have to change almost everything I thought I "knew" about "myself". It's really scary.
What helped me come to this conclusion was referring back to Objective Personality’s “Savior vs Demon”. The dominant savior cognitive behaviors that go unnoticed to ourselves are the ones we are addicted to and deny.
Fi Savior, what I value + Te Demon, what I THINK works for other = a really shitty copy cat of Fe, my immature idea of what others value. I like what I like and would assume that’s what others would like, without actually verifying with the tribe. And most of time it inaccurate.
You two are doing a great job. Just by bringing out that topic of 'beware, this is a wrong but common pattern of percieving yourself' one can stop being that blind to his own bias. And 'this is what you need to notice instead' feels like having a personal mentor who is holding a piece of mirror in his hand - we just have to become ok with seeing a hideous monster in there :D Thanks a lot. ♥️
As a self diagnosed INFP, I was unique. As an OPS diagnosed ISTP, I am awesome!! : D < --- (demon Fe) I was using functions as tools and burning myself and those around me out all the time! Focusing on "my Fi" yet burdening my tribe for their emotional input. Making it a point to have "new outlooks Ne" instead of using what I already knew would work. Now, I know when to focus on what I know and figured out and how it relates to those around me. It really pays to have an open mind and a pair of people willing to put good stuff into it!
My very first typing session I ran into this. I had seen your videos before on this subject, so I could understand what was going on - but yes, you spend the whole time trying to prove to them 'what they are saying'. It was a very interesting experience. I also see it with friends who will claim they are a massive introvert. I point out how they literally end up starting conversations with everyone we meet. Restaurant, music store, etc. And he found the suggestion preposterous. So funny. It's crazy to argue reality with someone. But I don't think this will get better any time soon. Not until you can get an EEG through neuroscience, which is lucky catching up quickly with typing. It will get there.
Great channel! Back when the Navy used M&B as one component of leadership training. All facilitator had to be typed. It was part of Please understand me. I was type INTJ. So while the other traits made sense, Introvert seemed out of place. I ask my Shipmates, they agreed. So I asked the instructor, he explain introversion is how I recharged my batteries. Like I would prefer to spend my time on a golf course inside of party bus. I bought into for many years. Looking back, while I think the test was the best thing going at the time, it was lacking. The test didn't take into account I am around mostly dudes, 24 hours a day, 7days a week. So why wouldn't I want look for quiet in my free time. Why wouldn't I want that??? One quick note, I also administer that same test when I conducted Senior Enlisted Session. This one class was 25 Navy Chiefs that were the equivalent drill instructors. 24 of them were typed INTJ. Not one of them quiet. The joke in that class is "I'm not a hugger!" If you made it this far, don' t forget to tell someone you love them!
but also our memory is notoriously unreliable. and yeah, getting past cognitive dissonance and the dunning-kruger effect are probably fairly difficult to do.
or im an ESFJ who thinks he is intp, or a intp who thinks he is esfj, possibly the intp because I DONT like IxxP, but the problem too is that too i dont like ESFJ, so im in a constant loop of who i am
@@colddu It doesn't matter at all what types you like and what types you don't. Leave aside who you like and who you don't, even people of the same type can be super different. Think about what you use naturally the most (that maybe you don't even notice or think about normally), what you don't use as naturally but you're proud of (even if you have to use it a lot for work or smth it doesn't mean in comes naturally), what you can't help but do, what you respect or fear. (Besides, even if you hate let's say every ESFJ you've ever met, you could still meet one in 3 years that you find absolutely amazing, it's perfectly possible!)
While that may be the case for some people, you guys can't forget that your information source is also very much biased. The people that pay you to type them probably tend to not be quite as sure of their type as they like to make you think, because otherwise why would they come to you and pay you?
I thought I had high Fe for a long period in my life because I was shy and struggled to fit into crowds, thus feeling as though I had to change. But then I realised that I don't have Fe at all because if I look at daily patterns of mine, all I do is what I like and through my whole life I've been open and adamant about what I like. (This was sort of sad to realise because it's very selfish of me) So, I figured I was Fi dom. I also wanted to convince myself I was Si but recently realised that I am waaay too messy and more Ne. I am almost sure I am a decider since all I think about are people. When I watch movies and read books, I'm intrigued by the people and I've got a lot of celebrity crushes. I diagnosed myself as an INFP but I think I might still be wrong... I have been looking at myself and evaluating my actions for about a year, just to figure out my true type. I really hope I finally have it so I can be content. Another reason for why I typed myself with lead Fi is ever since I was little, I was always focused on my identity and was confused when other people didn't do or think the way I do... and I still am.
Yeah it's like I'm always saying how compassionate I am but in the and when I see people I run away from them and call them idiots. Yeah, hating people while convincing yourself having high Fe even though in reality you made up a reason to empathize because of your Si past experience, but you wanna run away because it threatens you to face nice job Ti
Well, yeah, I know about Fe stuff. I don't mean it like actual hate in people. I don't care care about them. It's just the exaggeration that I use to describe my demon. It's hard to explain. The understanding of a fact that I have demon masculine Fe helped me processed the constant rage I feel. And it comes mostly from people. It could also be Se demon because I hate questions and can't stand when people don't guess but I'm pretty calm with "things". But it is very clear to me that mine main function is Ti. My use of Ti is almost anecdotical. I should have not even started it probably because it's never ending massage, that no one need. But I'm on the stage of denial of my type. What can you expect when I figured out my type from memes, accidentally. You know how they say about typing upside down? I thought for 5 years that I was an ISFJ. I could type myself as ESFJ but I've always been introverted it's like a fact that I couldn't deny, I was having too much fun on my own, so I went for same functions but in a slightly different order. And not long time ago I figured out the opposite. But if you don't trust memes who can you trust then?? I thought it would be very rediculous story to share for someone to laugh at. And thank god this is a massage because in real life I would stop myself at least 6 times. I think that's enough. And sorry for my English
This OP process is a lot like going to the podiatrist for custom orthotics and then thinking that sticking them in your shoes will solve all your biomechanical problems quickly, undoing a lifetime of musculoskeletal adaptation. It's going to hurt.
@@ninat5007 Me too. I'm sorry. I thought it was spelled with an e. When you said that I had to Google it real quick. Thanks. Now I know how to spell it. Lol
True, actually Nietzsche talked about this in detail. (Notice if u are religious and get infuriated and immediately cancel Nietzsche, u made the same mistake becoz of your inherent biases).
It is sad how much Nietzsche got smeared by religion that even mentioning him in non religious groups has negative reactions. Funnily enough, I have not met anyone that has actually read his work and has strong feelings against him, and even worse, what people understand as nihilism, Nietzsche wasn't one. When you mention Nietzsche and people begin talking about nihilism, that is when you know they have not even made basic research about him.
Dave and Shan are making a giant mistake. They are creating the problem and then blaming the customers. Dave and Shan keep putting enormous importance on personal growth, and that makes people invest energy, time, and belief in their personality type. If Dave and Shan emphasised the Jim Carrey stuff, i.e. that we are not the personality, and if they were lighthearted (Jim Carrey humour) rather than deadly serious (hero's journey drama), then people would be primed to hear that they are not who they think they are. For my part, I'd love to discover I'm a different type. It would be fun. But that's because I know I'm not the personality, but rather the perceiver of the personality. And I don't buy into their deadly serious hero's journey pseudo-drama, so the stakes are lowered for me.
@@JosiahMcCarthy Thanks. It comes down to our fundamental attitude about human beings. Dave and Shan side with society, which says that human beings are lacking and flawed. On the other hand, I say human beings are misdirected into chasing illusions, and that manifests as apparent lack and flaws. Dave and Shan have a negative view of people - they even call people "addicted childish taking bullshitters" - and I have a positive view of people. Like tigers, trees, and stars, there's nothing fundamentally wrong with humans. The problem is inherited illusions in the social world.
So basically, do they mean when you eventually encounter the consequences of not doing your saviors, and come out of it by correcting your mistakes and using your demons where and when they are required, you'll begin to look out for them, therefore, you'll begin to attempt to double decide or double observe, whatever the case may be???
Yeah, since most of us can’t see how we are as significant as a lizard and a potato, and many of we human animals can’t see the reality of soon and definitely going to be dead, gone and forgotten, how can we accurately see something as trivial as our personality? ~ a message from one version of an Infj
Hi @@dually81 As we can see from the predictably small number of “likes” my comment currently has received, the comment is nonetheless a reality that most humans are unable to look directly at.
@@HealthyPlanet We're all just one step out of the jungle, apes fighting over bananas. Most humans aren't even aware of their own breath, so they definitely are not present enough to perform a proper appraisal of themselves...let alone facing their own mortality.
Yes @@dually81 You said it 👊🏼 ------ I’d appreciate watching videos on YT of general reactions of general personality types when discussing their death anxiety. And same for when the insight that biological death anxiety is influencing their entire lives is first presented to them. ✌🏼💀
I would like to have a quick question that I've been thinking about: if for example there is an ENFP jumper, does it mean their PolR function also switches from Ti to Fe (I am ENFP but not sure if I'm a jumper or not)
I don't what their answer would be, but from watching their videos I've never seen them stray from the four-letter type strictly determining someone's functions. Jumping/not jumping seems only to affect the relative weighting. It is a little odd though... why would an Ne/Te be considered an "F"? I'm guessing it's just a quirk of the system
I daresay that what is termed "objective" isn't necessarily always objective. What a group of people perceive(e.g. a black hole) and agree upon may not necessarily be so. They all SEE a black hole, the data SEEMS to indicate a black hole, but none have peered into the depths; NOBODY knows what it *really* is. So they all are correct in the sense that they're all staring in the same direction, acquiring the same relatively meaningless data, interpreting that data a limited number of ways... but that's all just convention. A black hole MAY *BE* a tear in "time", a revealing of the eternal soil... but they won't GET that by looking. So, their abstractions only seem purely objective, and maybe they are, in a way. But the subjectivity of the object, to BE the object, it may disagree, being WHAT IT IS, and not what it is TOLD it is. So, there must be a balance then, the Truth is a combination of these two things - seeing as both the human mind and the capacity of any entity whose existence is anchored within this Third dimension is LIMITED by default. Only that which is eternal can comprehend the entire truth, that which is both subjective and objective; knowing Himself and also knowing how He is observed. Nobody else has that. So any knowledge to that end is divine. The point is this: those who claim to be PURELY objective must also agree that the subjective has merit. Those who think the subjective is all that matters will also themselves miss massively significant clues as to their impact. There will require a balancing between the observations of both entities, rooted in ALL the data, including what someone WANTS, but not to disinclude what someone SEEMS to be, etc... How do I make this long story short? (Edit: I made it longer. HA!) I think like this: Those who place all their faith in their objectivity will be guilty of the same sins as those who place all their faith in subjectivity; they'll simply arrive at opposing conclusions. Where that collision occurs is where the truth is found - AT THE EVENT. Because what good is it to describe a hammer and a nail, but the two never meet? Therefore, a hammer isn't really a hammer until it MAKES the nail a nail. And then their identities are revealed in that event, at that brief moment... and in a flash, the eternity between each swing masks the identity of each until the next event. A hammer may transform into a garden hoe with a little work; a nail into a necklace... they might not meet again. But what is true of each? That they will ALWAYS be a *potential* instrument. So, then, everything is an instrument, potentially, in the eternal view. And the purpose of an instrument is to produce an event within which the exchange of energy causes a transformation to another instrument. And so, we are in a machine whose purpose is to display events which are defined by transformations. Ultimately, then the end goal must not be of this Third dimension, because that is vanity; which is acceptable, as long as we become aware of that fact. If we don't(I suppose a weird way to put it might be), then we are merely NPCs. But if we are aware, we realize that we are merely instruments in someone else's story, now we're playable. To belong to God is to recognize His universe for what it is: HIS. It may not seem relevant to you, but this is the logical and honest end of the information you provided in this video. It MUST go there. It will mean the difference between you thinking your version of objectivity is the truth or you realizing that your objectivity is only a factor in discovering truth... and maybe not even for yourself; but for the observers, indeed. Late night... instead of hitting back and discard, I'm gonna hit the blue arrow.
The problem with being told that "everyone" types themselves upside down is that I've allowed that to influence my thinking. So I wonder if it actually makes me biased towards the opposite of what I'm typed as. INTJ - ESFP problem here most likely. I know it just takes a lot more time to pick up on this at a daily pattern level.
Does anyone else wonder if maybe they’ve discovered the unconscious valued functions in Socionics? We could put those functions they call saviors into 5th and 6th, and still be consistent.
@@FlagrantVagrant ThiS tHiNg you were doing led me to believe you were being aggressive. i'm used to being harassed online. peterson defines "the feminine" as being chaotic and "masculine" as being orderly. i didn't know about five letter types, but now that you mention it, yeah. turbulent vs assertive kind of has misogynistic vibes. (if you roll your eyes at this, you have some learning to do.) anyway. i wouldn't classify our "feminine" cognitive functions as "turbulent". they seem more fluid, and yeah, receptive. i'm all for change that will simplify and clarify terms. masc/fem is an archetypal dynamic, but in this context, keeping gender out of the conversation seems like a good idea. especially if we're wanting to attract younger demographics. same story with savior/demon. i'm always open to being questioned, respectfully. brought up these suggestions with the hope of starting a conversation.
In some aspects; sure. In totality that is not the case. I don't think someone else typing or seeing you is a more reliable account than one seeing themselves.
you guys are getting really frustrated about the stuff... aren't you. Sharon sounds Propper pissed in this video. like it's right after a Typing session where the person just couldn't see themself and was arguing with them that they are different from what they see them.
You guys have been pointing out this issue for so long... Have you considered that the cause of too many mistyping might be the very system you offer? The way you have narrowed down the cognitive functions is sooo narrow that makes it either too hard to identify them or rather too easy to miss identify them (the false positives you are seeing). Perhaps you should get rid of your abstract figures of colored balls for once so instead you actually try to explain the functions in a sound Te way with clear examples and everything. Because I tell ya, your material is getting more and more like "ExxP secrets" (the joke is turning on you).
As I understand it, you're trying to say that you don't track what one says he does, but what he does actually. Also you track the meta-data of an email you get from someone, not the data itself. It's like you're trying to figure out from a letter what type of person wrote this, when, with what pencil in what paper etc...But that letter contains text that gives that information. Then it makes sense not to trust the contents of the text. Is that accurate? Does that make sense?
Very convenient, if someone doesn't agree with the type you gave them, they are just not mature enough. It is true that the information you give out is unclear and it is true that you make mistakes typing. When both are taken into account, it's only natural that there would be people who are either confused, don't trust your assessment of them or both.
Eehhhhh .. not really. Most internet INFJs are actually either INFP or ISFJ. But I kinda know what you mean. Certainly it wasn't a problem for me to recognize that I had Ne.
Still trying to figure out if I'm INTJ or ENTP that uses a lot of subconscious functions. Problem is, nobody really has a description for me, so I'm stuck asking random people weird questions that no normal person asks to ascertain my type. So far, I only really get "smart", "absent minded", and "paces a lot".
If you are being as objective as possible, from a subjective point of view, you should be able to admit and recognize your actual type's strengths AND weaknesses, and how those manifest for you, personally (since everyone is an individual, duh).
@@audy2174 There is no short explanation for this, but I'll try to write some lines about it atleast. Forgive me if it's not short and precise. In order to understand people, one must understand the relationship between the 4th and 1st function. I have Se last, Ni first. So in my case, I have performance anxiety, I fear missing things (plural) in reality. This means I love "the" system. If I get a title on something, divide it into categories, I fill them with the details. I, love, this. INTJ's eg. are famous for being "masterminds" because of this reason. In the end, they 'see' the whole subject, and master all the details. They repeat and grind so long as they are convinced they are on the right/ultimate subject. Slow to learn but masters in the end. Ne first means Si last. Si last means, in practical behaviour, that they get annoyed, VERY annoyed, about even one small hickup. Several small hickups/details stresses them like mad. With Ne first, people produce a lot of quick drafts and examples of projects and how to get them done. (It also makes them a little mysterious since they like to hide things, and also suspect that there is "more to it" than it is with people. Pure projection, although it does take time to get to know a person). But, they only do 20-30% of the work, since they lack energy for "the small stuff", which annoys them. They simply don't do them. Instead they lease them to other people, which makes them very money focused. Money (and even "friends") becomes tools to avoid their 'demon' function. And if they can't, they get angry, and spend 100's of dollars on pleasure, after pleasure, after pleasure. ENFP eg. wants to be happy, high and filled with pride and a sense of productivity. Else they feel ashamed, annoyed and get angry. INFJ (me) are usually grumpy as default. Negative, pessimistic, working to find flaws in a system, or even attempts to re-do it (like whole educations or work instructions), and make it more pedagogic and easy to understand, for others sake. And when it's done, then we are happy! That is our ultimate goal and drive in life. True, we are positive when we are with other people, but are constantly moody and dark, or as we say "real" on the inside. So ENFP works on the total opposite energy, mindset (more play than sleep as with INFJ's), and hate being annoyed, which is default for INFJ's. My story is that I found a new friend, ENFP, who I was torned apart from, because of this chemistry. He wanted to work broadly and 'big', and wanted help with complesion, but got annoyed when I tried (detalis) He wanted me to be positive as default, which is only 50% of my daily mood. He wanted me to Fi more, which I did, while he didn't Fe, at all. He wanted more play energy, I wanted sleep energy, which lead him to hide things (too much) so I would reach forward, which just made me extremely insecure. I couldn't co-op with this. I tried my hardest. I tried to talk about it and was politely asked to shut the f up. Was he more undeveloped than me? I won't judge, I only know I aim to be as much as I can of everything, since I like mbti. I have realized though that we are locked into our functions like the soul is linked to the body. There is no choise, only training. Ni/Se is what drives me, and is my temperament, that's just biology. Anyway, so I gave up. Hurt, still haven't healed, but I do feel better. Thoughts?
@@christiandavis5543 You find yourself a goal, that you want to achieve (Fi). Then you make presumption, how to do it. Then you do it. Then you observe, what actually happened, and try to figure out, why did it happened that way (Ni). If you get clear answer, yes or no, you get a fact. If it is ambiguous, you try to eliminate/determine, what causes confusion. Up to this point, it is only Ni-Se. Then, you publish/extrovert your findings and let it be attacked/questioned by others (Te). If there are some flaws found, you go back, and do more tests using objective measurements (Se - which all of us can perceive). You keep doing this, until it is clean, and no reasonable objection can be made. Ti - Fe care only if presented "truth" is liked by their preferred group of people. Te "truth" have to work everywhere. Ne - Si doesn't naturally collect and compare objective data like Se does.
what if you think you’re an Oe and know you have literally no ability to plan and it makes you anxious every time you try and just end up doing what you feel like doing at all times.... ?? 😂
@@basic-decaf ? Are you confused? They literally describe in this video how Shan, savior Se, fails to plan and then peacocks Ni planning. IJs are the planningest types, EPs the least so.
@@basic-decaf which is her giving an example of peacocking! They're not that messy, they just know they're uptight and they want to believe they can let loose, so they say they're messy. That was the point of her saying that.
I normally like the direct-ness of your videos but this one came off really aggressive and if you're trying to teach someone they're "wrong" it shouldn't be done through yelling. Love your stuff, really interesting and fun to think about, but this was the hardest to watch yet.. But to your point, I have this quote, “There are these two young fish swimming along and they happen to meet an older fish swimming the other way, who nods at them and says "Morning, boys. How's the water?" And the two young fish swim on for a bit, and then eventually one of them looks over at the other and goes "What the hell is water?” - David Foster Wallace
so that makes sense and it doesn't. In other words everyone is blind to their obvious behaviors and we always need an outside source to see what is really going on. So in other words we always need a specialist to know what is really happening. Sounds like you guys are trying to sell a product.
"Every Oi talks about how messy they are." Okay, so, you're telling me that when it comes to these people, who are literally telling you the 2 specific times in the last 5 years that they actually cleaned up their house (because it was a traumatic experience for them to clean up the place and they hate organizing) they're an Oi? Yeah.. they're an Oi because.. *introverted* observing is the bane of their existence..? Yet, somehow when someone tells you that they can remember 2 specific times in the last 5 years that they went to a party and were extroverted (because it was a traumatic experience for them to break out of their shell and coexist with the tribe) they're a Di? Yeah.. they're a Di because.. *extroverted* deciding is the bane of their existence..? You guys seriously need to nail down your logic before you teach a class, you can't formulate this rule and then use it in two completely different ways.
Pro tip: If you can remember that "one time" you did XYZ, it's almost certainly because it was highly unusual for you to do that.
If you spend all day everyday doing something, you don't feel the need to have examples at the ready because it just all blurs together. Or, it just feels easy and obvious to the point that you don't feel it's worthy of comment.
Always on the lookout for people peacock'ing since learning this.
It was a special occurance that normally doesn't happen, which is why it stands out and suprises the person. One almost never notices the other way around unless you are willing to pay attention to what is going on within. Excuse my writing
Well said
For me i dont notice it. The times when i can "recall" using Ni as an intj is when others called me out on something or it was a humorous situation where i now have a strong memory as others constantly bring it up. However i struggle to be sure in my typing cause i "cant really remember" or "feel confident" in my deduction. Im very sure of my type i just also haven't found anyone trustworthy information to provide the Se to support my Ni for this situation.
@@sushigooo8061 i feel this as an ENTP, I actually question my type literally all the time- and feel like I am in the small minority that actually does see that I am intense with organizing and obsess about details and most of my stress comes from organizing my environment. Of course I have times when I can make a good plan but executing it is not the same as an Si dom by any means. I also question more so if I am a double decider when i struggle to make decisions based on self/tribe- but maybe its Its usually a struggle to make a quick decision off of Ti or Fi but could also be me trying to look at it through Ne or Si lens
They both matched their sweaters to their eye color
This is the funniest shit hahaha thank you so much
I thought Shan's eyes were bluer?
Not her
Another saviour Se.
That’s some fine SF you’ve got there 😂💗
My entire family laughed at me when I said I was an isfp initially. I had done so much research and self-reflection. They weren’t wrong- I’m an esfp. NOTHING about me is introverted. I thought I was because I needed a few hours at night to actually rest for once in the damn day 😆
@InÊs CaStRo exactly! That’s why I found it so funny. Like who doesn’t need that?
this is so wholesome 🤣
I get comments from extraverts that their first impression of me is that I’m super boring and a prude. Introverted types say they see me as fun and adventurous. Other people’s subjective opinions aren’t always “more accurate”, they just come from a different set of assumptions and comparisons that need to be taken into account just like my own.
People tell you that you are boring? I hope they aren’t your family or friends, good lord!
I totally agree! When I became a supervisor at my it really became apparent to me how many impressions people have of you that are wildly different from the next person’s.
This is a good comment. "Science" can lie.
Look, the strongest opinions of you as an individual come from within. Don't worry about the opinions of others. If you are conscious of the fact that experience is subjective, you will have a great "time".
Those are all inherently subjective descriptors too though. What I've realized more and more over time is that certain commonly used terms have completely different definitions to different types/people. e.g. both Ti doms and Te doms may utilize the criticism "stupid," but they each mean something completely different by the term "stupid." What is a "prude" to one person could be adventurous to another. Another issue is that people tend to project, especially when it comes to interpreting things like motivations or emotions. People may notice you doing something, but as for the reason you are doing it, that's basically some make-believe story they invent to fill in the gaps in their understanding. And sometimes it's as egocentric and myopic as "What you said made me feel angry, therefore you must have said that just to piss me off. You're _trying_ to make me angry, intentionally." Or other times it's just an innocent failure to realize not everyone is like them. Like, "I would feel bored if I did what you did, therefore you must be bored," or "I would only do that under xyz conditions, therefore xyz must be true." I think that in attempting to collect outside perspectives, it's important to get at the observations that are as "objective" as humanly possible, like "What do I spend the majority of my time doing?" and not "why do you think I do that?" But you're right that information from other people can certainly be "dirty data" as well -- just "dirty" in different ways.
I remember watching one of your videos 2 years ago stressing that people always think they're the opposite type & I thought " haha, yeah what idiots, I'm definitely an ISTP though " ... 2 years later i realise I'm an INFJ. I was so certain XD
"I don't know-I'm Making this up as I go."-Indiana Jones
Thank you for being brutally honest. It’s the only way to change in my opinion.
Lmao, first time I learn about these cognitive functions, I was like "I'm definitely a savior Fi." But all of my family was like "what the fck!?", lol. They all see my Te... and I'm the only one who can see my Fi. I understand completely what they're saying here, and learnt it somewhat the hard way.
Can relate
😭 For the longest time, I thought I was an Infj with savior Fe, tribe over self. Then an infj, ni/ti. But after some DEEP introspection, turns out I'm an INFP, ne/si. I have mistaken my demon TE for Savior FE because I thought of myself as a NICE PERSON.
I assume what is a (savior Fi) inconvenience to me is an inconvenience to others. And the reaction to that is doing what (Demon Te) worked best for others.
I had the same experience lol
I'm so scared that I've mistyped myself too. I currently think I am a classic INTJ. The idea that I could be that wrong about myself is so scary. Also, I'm just addicted to the description of the INTJ, and all the memes. Imagine I'd have to change almost everything I thought I "knew" about "myself". It's really scary.
@Shimohira Reika In OP, the top 2 functions are referred to as your saviors. So yes, INFJ is savior Fe. Ni is the dominant function.
What helped me come to this conclusion was referring back to Objective Personality’s “Savior vs Demon”. The dominant savior cognitive behaviors that go unnoticed to ourselves are the ones we are addicted to and deny.
Fi Savior, what I value + Te Demon, what I THINK works for other = a really shitty copy cat of Fe, my immature idea of what others value. I like what I like and would assume that’s what others would like, without actually verifying with the tribe. And most of time it inaccurate.
You two are doing a great job. Just by bringing out that topic of 'beware, this is a wrong but common pattern of percieving yourself' one can stop being that blind to his own bias. And 'this is what you need to notice instead' feels like having a personal mentor who is holding a piece of mirror in his hand - we just have to become ok with seeing a hideous monster in there :D Thanks a lot. ♥️
As a self diagnosed INFP, I was unique.
As an OPS diagnosed ISTP, I am awesome!! : D < --- (demon Fe)
I was using functions as tools and burning myself and those around me out all the time! Focusing on "my Fi" yet burdening my tribe for their emotional input. Making it a point to have "new outlooks Ne" instead of using what I already knew would work. Now, I know when to focus on what I know and figured out and how it relates to those around me. It really pays to have an open mind and a pair of people willing to put good stuff into it!
My very first typing session I ran into this. I had seen your videos before on this subject, so I could understand what was going on - but yes, you spend the whole time trying to prove to them 'what they are saying'. It was a very interesting experience. I also see it with friends who will claim they are a massive introvert. I point out how they literally end up starting conversations with everyone we meet. Restaurant, music store, etc. And he found the suggestion preposterous. So funny.
It's crazy to argue reality with someone. But I don't think this will get better any time soon. Not until you can get an EEG through neuroscience, which is lucky catching up quickly with typing. It will get there.
Great channel! Back when the Navy used M&B as one component of leadership training. All facilitator had to be typed. It was part of Please understand me. I was type INTJ. So while the other traits made sense, Introvert seemed out of place. I ask my Shipmates, they agreed. So I asked the instructor, he explain introversion is how I recharged my batteries. Like I would prefer to spend my time on a golf course inside of party bus. I bought into for many years. Looking back, while I think the test was the best thing going at the time, it was lacking. The test didn't take into account I am around mostly dudes, 24 hours a day, 7days a week. So why wouldn't I want look for quiet in my free time. Why wouldn't I want that??? One quick note, I also administer that same test when I conducted Senior Enlisted Session. This one class was 25 Navy Chiefs that were the equivalent drill instructors. 24 of them were typed INTJ. Not one of them quiet. The joke in that class is "I'm not a hugger!" If you made it this far, don' t forget to tell someone you love them!
but also our memory is notoriously unreliable. and yeah, getting past cognitive dissonance and the dunning-kruger effect are probably fairly difficult to do.
God could I be an inverted INFP, that is . . . ESTJ ???? BUT WITH ANXIETY????????????
Ooooh Gawwwwwwd
it's entirely possible
or im an ESFJ who thinks he is intp, or a intp who thinks he is esfj, possibly the intp because I DONT like IxxP, but the problem too is that too i dont like ESFJ, so im in a constant loop of who i am
@@colddu same here 👩🦽
@@colddu learn ur funtions bruh: how isnt it clear if ur a fucking esfj or an intp?
@@colddu It doesn't matter at all what types you like and what types you don't.
Leave aside who you like and who you don't, even people of the same type can be super different.
Think about what you use naturally the most (that maybe you don't even notice or think about normally), what you don't use as naturally but you're proud of (even if you have to use it a lot for work or smth it doesn't mean in comes naturally), what you can't help but do, what you respect or fear.
(Besides, even if you hate let's say every ESFJ you've ever met, you could still meet one in 3 years that you find absolutely amazing, it's perfectly possible!)
While that may be the case for some people, you guys can't forget that your information source is also very much biased.
The people that pay you to type them probably tend to not be quite as sure of their type as they like to make you think, because otherwise why would they come to you and pay you?
I thought I had high Fe for a long period in my life because I was shy and struggled to fit into crowds, thus feeling as though I had to change. But then I realised that I don't have Fe at all because if I look at daily patterns of mine, all I do is what I like and through my whole life I've been open and adamant about what I like. (This was sort of sad to realise because it's very selfish of me) So, I figured I was Fi dom. I also wanted to convince myself I was Si but recently realised that I am waaay too messy and more Ne. I am almost sure I am a decider since all I think about are people. When I watch movies and read books, I'm intrigued by the people and I've got a lot of celebrity crushes. I diagnosed myself as an INFP but I think I might still be wrong... I have been looking at myself and evaluating my actions for about a year, just to figure out my true type. I really hope I finally have it so I can be content. Another reason for why I typed myself with lead Fi is ever since I was little, I was always focused on my identity and was confused when other people didn't do or think the way I do... and I still am.
Fwiw, sounds like INFP to me.
@@JosiahMcCarthy Agree!
Yeah it's like I'm always saying how compassionate I am but in the and when I see people I run away from them and call them idiots. Yeah, hating people while convincing yourself having high Fe even though in reality you made up a reason to empathize because of your Si past experience, but you wanna run away because it threatens you to face nice job Ti
High Fe doesn't mean you love people tho.
Bruh
Well, yeah, I know about Fe stuff. I don't mean it like actual hate in people. I don't care care about them. It's just the exaggeration that I use to describe my demon. It's hard to explain.
The understanding of a fact that I have demon masculine Fe helped me processed the constant rage I feel. And it comes mostly from people. It could also be Se demon because I hate questions and can't stand when people don't guess but I'm pretty calm with "things".
But it is very clear to me that mine main function is Ti. My use of Ti is almost anecdotical.
I should have not even started it probably because it's never ending massage, that no one need.
But I'm on the stage of denial of my type. What can you expect when I figured out my type from memes, accidentally. You know how they say about typing upside down? I thought for 5 years that I was an ISFJ. I could type myself as ESFJ but I've always been introverted it's like a fact that I couldn't deny, I was having too much fun on my own, so I went for same functions but in a slightly different order. And not long time ago I figured out the opposite. But if you don't trust memes who can you trust then??
I thought it would be very rediculous story to share for someone to laugh at.
And thank god this is a massage because in real life I would stop myself at least 6 times.
I think that's enough.
And sorry for my English
@InÊs CaStRo well, I hate them when they are dumb. Say something that I think illogical or stupid to me and you're find how mad I can get.
This OP process is a lot like going to the podiatrist for custom orthotics and then thinking that sticking them in your shoes will solve all your biomechanical problems quickly, undoing a lifetime of musculoskeletal adaptation. It's going to hurt.
Pediatrist
@@jeffreysherman8224 Lol I was referring to the foot doctor (podiatrist) and not the short version of pediatrician.
@@ninat5007 Me too. I'm sorry. I thought it was spelled with an e. When you said that I had to Google it real quick. Thanks. Now I know how to spell it. Lol
True, actually Nietzsche talked about this in detail. (Notice if u are religious and get infuriated and immediately cancel Nietzsche, u made the same mistake becoz of your inherent biases).
It is sad how much Nietzsche got smeared by religion that even mentioning him in non religious groups has negative reactions. Funnily enough, I have not met anyone that has actually read his work and has strong feelings against him, and even worse, what people understand as nihilism, Nietzsche wasn't one. When you mention Nietzsche and people begin talking about nihilism, that is when you know they have not even made basic research about him.
@@farrex0 exactly, he was an existential nilhist and the difference cannot be ignored.
Dave and Shan are making a giant mistake. They are creating the problem and then blaming the customers. Dave and Shan keep putting enormous importance on personal growth, and that makes people invest energy, time, and belief in their personality type. If Dave and Shan emphasised the Jim Carrey stuff, i.e. that we are not the personality, and if they were lighthearted (Jim Carrey humour) rather than deadly serious (hero's journey drama), then people would be primed to hear that they are not who they think they are.
For my part, I'd love to discover I'm a different type. It would be fun. But that's because I know I'm not the personality, but rather the perceiver of the personality. And I don't buy into their deadly serious hero's journey pseudo-drama, so the stakes are lowered for me.
Good take
@@JosiahMcCarthy Thanks. It comes down to our fundamental attitude about human beings. Dave and Shan side with society, which says that human beings are lacking and flawed. On the other hand, I say human beings are misdirected into chasing illusions, and that manifests as apparent lack and flaws. Dave and Shan have a negative view of people - they even call people "addicted childish taking bullshitters" - and I have a positive view of people. Like tigers, trees, and stars, there's nothing fundamentally wrong with humans. The problem is inherited illusions in the social world.
I like the hero's journey psychodrama take personally
Ofc, they're only responsible for the ego growth. They didn't say they are responsible for your spiritual growth as well or growth in any other areas
@@SabrinaXe good point
If I'm honest, I spend everyday life daydreaming myself though everything. Except in work - that's the opposite.
Is it possible to be high in Ti Ne and Ni?
Ti lead for sure
I took two cognitive function tests and they both said I was high in these three...
Preach fam.
So basically, do they mean when you eventually encounter the consequences of not doing your saviors, and come out of it by correcting your mistakes and using your demons where and when they are required, you'll begin to look out for them, therefore, you'll begin to attempt to double decide or double observe, whatever the case may be???
Yeah, since most of us can’t see how we are as significant as a lizard and a potato, and many of we human animals can’t see the reality of soon and definitely going to be dead, gone and forgotten, how can we accurately see something as trivial as our personality?
~ a message from one version of an Infj
INFJ, always going Big Picture...LoL
Hi @@dually81
As we can see from the predictably small number of “likes” my comment currently has received, the comment is nonetheless a reality that most humans are unable to look directly at.
@@HealthyPlanet We're all just one step out of the jungle, apes fighting over bananas.
Most humans aren't even aware of their own breath, so they definitely are not present enough to perform a proper appraisal of themselves...let alone facing their own mortality.
Yes @@dually81
You said it 👊🏼
------
I’d appreciate watching videos on YT of general reactions of general personality types when discussing their death anxiety.
And same for when the insight that biological death anxiety is influencing their entire lives is first presented to them.
✌🏼💀
@@HealthyPlanet @complete.self.knowledge on Instagrams latest post says it all...very relevant to our exchange.
An amazing page overall!!! 🧿
I love how both of you are matching colors 😌❤️
Fire cannot burn itself nor does it recognize itself as fire
I would like to have a quick question that I've been thinking about: if for example there is an ENFP jumper, does it mean their PolR function also switches from Ti to Fe (I am ENFP but not sure if I'm a jumper or not)
I don't what their answer would be, but from watching their videos I've never seen them stray from the four-letter type strictly determining someone's functions. Jumping/not jumping seems only to affect the relative weighting. It is a little odd though... why would an Ne/Te be considered an "F"? I'm guessing it's just a quirk of the system
Green Day!
I see my self completely and I self-typed correctly. Sorry.
Has anyone confirmed your type?
I daresay that what is termed "objective" isn't necessarily always objective. What a group of people perceive(e.g. a black hole) and agree upon may not necessarily be so. They all SEE a black hole, the data SEEMS to indicate a black hole, but none have peered into the depths; NOBODY knows what it *really* is. So they all are correct in the sense that they're all staring in the same direction, acquiring the same relatively meaningless data, interpreting that data a limited number of ways... but that's all just convention. A black hole MAY *BE* a tear in "time", a revealing of the eternal soil... but they won't GET that by looking. So, their abstractions only seem purely objective, and maybe they are, in a way. But the subjectivity of the object, to BE the object, it may disagree, being WHAT IT IS, and not what it is TOLD it is. So, there must be a balance then, the Truth is a combination of these two things - seeing as both the human mind and the capacity of any entity whose existence is anchored within this Third dimension is LIMITED by default. Only that which is eternal can comprehend the entire truth, that which is both subjective and objective; knowing Himself and also knowing how He is observed. Nobody else has that. So any knowledge to that end is divine. The point is this: those who claim to be PURELY objective must also agree that the subjective has merit. Those who think the subjective is all that matters will also themselves miss massively significant clues as to their impact. There will require a balancing between the observations of both entities, rooted in ALL the data, including what someone WANTS, but not to disinclude what someone SEEMS to be, etc... How do I make this long story short? (Edit: I made it longer. HA!) I think like this: Those who place all their faith in their objectivity will be guilty of the same sins as those who place all their faith in subjectivity; they'll simply arrive at opposing conclusions. Where that collision occurs is where the truth is found - AT THE EVENT. Because what good is it to describe a hammer and a nail, but the two never meet? Therefore, a hammer isn't really a hammer until it MAKES the nail a nail. And then their identities are revealed in that event, at that brief moment... and in a flash, the eternity between each swing masks the identity of each until the next event. A hammer may transform into a garden hoe with a little work; a nail into a necklace... they might not meet again. But what is true of each? That they will ALWAYS be a *potential* instrument. So, then, everything is an instrument, potentially, in the eternal view. And the purpose of an instrument is to produce an event within which the exchange of energy causes a transformation to another instrument. And so, we are in a machine whose purpose is to display events which are defined by transformations. Ultimately, then the end goal must not be of this Third dimension, because that is vanity; which is acceptable, as long as we become aware of that fact. If we don't(I suppose a weird way to put it might be), then we are merely NPCs. But if we are aware, we realize that we are merely instruments in someone else's story, now we're playable. To belong to God is to recognize His universe for what it is: HIS. It may not seem relevant to you, but this is the logical and honest end of the information you provided in this video. It MUST go there. It will mean the difference between you thinking your version of objectivity is the truth or you realizing that your objectivity is only a factor in discovering truth... and maybe not even for yourself; but for the observers, indeed. Late night... instead of hitting back and discard, I'm gonna hit the blue arrow.
The problem with being told that "everyone" types themselves upside down is that I've allowed that to influence my thinking. So I wonder if it actually makes me biased towards the opposite of what I'm typed as. INTJ - ESFP problem here most likely. I know it just takes a lot more time to pick up on this at a daily pattern level.
Well they said that lately more people are correctly typing themself
Does anyone else wonder if maybe they’ve discovered the unconscious valued functions in Socionics? We could put those functions they call saviors into 5th and 6th, and still be consistent.
also remember, correlation ≠ causation.
Killer rant guys, love it!
I do have to say, I find it slightly suspect that they NEVER(?) have anyone type themselves accurately...REally?... -_-
Hi! love you guys!
additional proposition to describe function energy in terms of "receptive + assertive" instead of "masculine + feminine"
wHaT iF iNsTeAd oF rEcEpTivE wE cAlLeD iT tUrBuLeNt.
@@FlagrantVagrant whoa dude, jordan peterson much?
@@sweetbeecherie where'd you get jordan peterson? I'm baffled. I was pointing out 16p five letter types, turbulent and assertive.
@@FlagrantVagrant ThiS tHiNg you were doing led me to believe you were being aggressive. i'm used to being harassed online. peterson defines "the feminine" as being chaotic and "masculine" as being orderly. i didn't know about five letter types, but now that you mention it, yeah. turbulent vs assertive kind of has misogynistic vibes. (if you roll your eyes at this, you have some learning to do.) anyway.
i wouldn't classify our "feminine" cognitive functions as "turbulent". they seem more fluid, and yeah, receptive. i'm all for change that will simplify and clarify terms. masc/fem is an archetypal dynamic, but in this context, keeping gender out of the conversation seems like a good idea. especially if we're wanting to attract younger demographics. same story with savior/demon.
i'm always open to being questioned, respectfully. brought up these suggestions with the hope of starting a conversation.
@@sweetbeecherie Sorry. I was doing the mocking spongebob meme. And I guess that's really dancing with dynamite for me to do that.
In some aspects; sure. In totality that is not the case. I don't think someone else typing or seeing you is a more reliable account than one seeing themselves.
Great vid.
Can you type michael jordan
the truth is in the pattern.
you guys are getting really frustrated about the stuff... aren't you.
Sharon sounds Propper pissed in this video. like it's right after a Typing session where the person just couldn't see themself and was arguing with them that they are different from what they see them.
So yourr saying its almost impossible to see your blind spots?
You guys have been pointing out this issue for so long... Have you considered that the cause of too many mistyping might be the very system you offer?
The way you have narrowed down the cognitive functions is sooo narrow that makes it either too hard to identify them or rather too easy to miss identify them (the false positives you are seeing).
Perhaps you should get rid of your abstract figures of colored balls for once so instead you actually try to explain the functions in a sound Te way with clear examples and everything.
Because I tell ya, your material is getting more and more like "ExxP secrets" (the joke is turning on you).
I have such a tough time keeping up with their system. It costs too much to understand, just to know my exact personality type.
What exactly do you want help with?
As I understand it, you're trying to say that you don't track what one says he does, but what he does actually. Also you track the meta-data of an email you get from someone, not the data itself. It's like you're trying to figure out from a letter what type of person wrote this, when, with what pencil in what paper etc...But that letter contains text that gives that information. Then it makes sense not to trust the contents of the text. Is that accurate? Does that make sense?
You work the same outfits Dec 13th. Coincidence?
Haha do you guys consciously match your sweaters to your eye colors?
Very convenient, if someone doesn't agree with the type you gave them, they are just not mature enough. It is true that the information you give out is unclear and it is true that you make mistakes typing. When both are taken into account, it's only natural that there would be people who are either confused, don't trust your assessment of them or both.
You become what you see is applied here ?
I also think that Ne is hard to mistype. If you have it you know.
Eehhhhh .. not really. Most internet INFJs are actually either INFP or ISFJ. But I kinda know what you mean. Certainly it wasn't a problem for me to recognize that I had Ne.
@@JosiahMcCarthy Everyone thinks they are INFJ. Then you meet an INFJ and he thinks he's an ENFP. LOL.
@@Behappy4ever-i7y Anyone in your environment can notice your Ne. It does not take a rocket scientist to see that
Still trying to figure out if I'm INTJ or ENTP that uses a lot of subconscious functions. Problem is, nobody really has a description for me, so I'm stuck asking random people weird questions that no normal person asks to ascertain my type. So far, I only really get "smart", "absent minded", and "paces a lot".
@@AlastorTheNPDemon Why these 2 types? They are really, really quite oppositional and different?
If you are being as objective as possible, from a subjective point of view, you should be able to admit and recognize your actual type's strengths AND weaknesses, and how those manifest for you, personally (since everyone is an individual, duh).
Just saw Ne Fi in full force... man after that experience, I don't like those function anymore
Sure maturity plays a big role, but hs....
What was it?
I'm curious to know what it was as well.
@@audy2174 There is no short explanation for this, but I'll try to write some lines about it atleast.
Forgive me if it's not short and precise.
In order to understand people, one must understand the relationship between the 4th and 1st function.
I have Se last, Ni first. So in my case, I have performance anxiety, I fear missing things (plural) in reality. This means I love "the" system. If I get a title on something, divide it into categories, I fill them with the details.
I, love, this. INTJ's eg. are famous for being "masterminds" because of this reason. In the end, they 'see' the whole subject, and master all the details. They repeat and grind so long as they are convinced they are on the right/ultimate subject. Slow to learn but masters in the end.
Ne first means Si last.
Si last means, in practical behaviour, that they get annoyed, VERY annoyed, about even one small hickup. Several small hickups/details stresses them like mad.
With Ne first, people produce a lot of quick drafts and examples of projects and how to get them done. (It also makes them a little mysterious since they like to hide things, and also suspect that there is "more to it" than it is with people. Pure projection, although it does take time to get to know a person). But, they only do 20-30% of the work, since they lack energy for "the small stuff", which annoys them. They simply don't do them.
Instead they lease them to other people, which makes them very money focused. Money (and even "friends") becomes tools to avoid their 'demon' function. And if they can't, they get angry, and spend 100's of dollars on pleasure, after pleasure, after pleasure.
ENFP eg. wants to be happy, high and filled with pride and a sense of productivity. Else they feel ashamed, annoyed and get angry.
INFJ (me) are usually grumpy as default. Negative, pessimistic, working to find flaws in a system, or even attempts to re-do it (like whole educations or work instructions), and make it more pedagogic and easy to understand, for others sake. And when it's done, then we are happy! That is our ultimate goal and drive in life. True, we are positive when we are with other people, but are constantly moody and dark, or as we say "real" on the inside.
So ENFP works on the total opposite energy, mindset (more play than sleep as with INFJ's), and hate being annoyed, which is default for INFJ's.
My story is that I found a new friend, ENFP, who I was torned apart from, because of this chemistry.
He wanted to work broadly and 'big', and wanted help with complesion, but got annoyed when I tried (detalis)
He wanted me to be positive as default, which is only 50% of my daily mood.
He wanted me to Fi more, which I did, while he didn't Fe, at all.
He wanted more play energy, I wanted sleep energy, which lead him to hide things (too much) so I would reach forward, which just made me extremely insecure.
I couldn't co-op with this. I tried my hardest. I tried to talk about it and was politely asked to shut the f up.
Was he more undeveloped than me? I won't judge, I only know I aim to be as much as I can of everything, since I like mbti. I have realized though that we are locked into our functions like the soul is linked to the body. There is no choise, only training. Ni/Se is what drives me, and is my temperament, that's just biology.
Anyway, so I gave up. Hurt, still haven't healed, but I do feel better.
Thoughts?
@@yes7855 Gave a long azz answer below. Thank you in advance, am open for questions.
@@broadbandtogod I'm an ENFP and I couldn't agree more. Thank you for taking the time to write this out. It gave me a lot of perspective.
Yeah, you literally can't see your own face.
I am a bit of a troll at least on the Internet, so on the Internet I am like an ESTP\ENTP, but in real life I am an IxFJ?
So, what is your purpose in coming across differently than you really are? I get that you’re trolling, but what is YOUR true purpose of that?
@@attheranch873 for fun. I get bored easily.
lol, does Dave know what the scientific method is?
Te users trying to Ti
He is INTJ. So yes, he does. Scientific method is basically having Te and Se in your stack.
@@jankom.7783 Can you explain exactly how?
@@christiandavis5543 You find yourself a goal, that you want to achieve (Fi). Then you make presumption, how to do it. Then you do it. Then you observe, what actually happened, and try to figure out, why did it happened that way (Ni). If you get clear answer, yes or no, you get a fact. If it is ambiguous, you try to eliminate/determine, what causes confusion. Up to this point, it is only Ni-Se.
Then, you publish/extrovert your findings and let it be attacked/questioned by others (Te). If there are some flaws found, you go back, and do more tests using objective measurements (Se - which all of us can perceive). You keep doing this, until it is clean, and no reasonable objection can be made.
Ti - Fe care only if presented "truth" is liked by their preferred group of people. Te "truth" have to work everywhere. Ne - Si doesn't naturally collect and compare objective data like Se does.
So, typing someone over the phone is scientific? 😆
what if you think you’re an Oe and know you have literally no ability to plan and it makes you anxious every time you try and just end up doing what you feel like doing at all times.... ?? 😂
Sounds like real Oe to me.
@@JosiahMcCarthy According to OPS, you're an Oi. Sorry bud. No ability to plan? Ni/Si dom.
@@basic-decaf ? Are you confused? They literally describe in this video how Shan, savior Se, fails to plan and then peacocks Ni planning. IJs are the planningest types, EPs the least so.
@@JosiahMcCarthy They literally describe in this video how Shan is tired of hearing "every savior Oi talk about how messy they are."
@@basic-decaf which is her giving an example of peacocking! They're not that messy, they just know they're uptight and they want to believe they can let loose, so they say they're messy. That was the point of her saying that.
Cherry picked data.
I normally like the direct-ness of your videos but this one came off really aggressive and if you're trying to teach someone they're "wrong" it shouldn't be done through yelling. Love your stuff, really interesting and fun to think about, but this was the hardest to watch yet..
But to your point, I have this quote, “There are these two young fish swimming along and they happen to meet an older fish swimming the other way, who nods at them and says "Morning, boys. How's the water?" And the two young fish swim on for a bit, and then eventually one of them looks over at the other and goes "What the hell is water?” - David Foster Wallace
I see what you did there in the outro. Smells like Ni.
proposition to refer to primary functions (re: not shadow functions) as "preferred + supporting" instead of "savior + demon".
so that makes sense and it doesn't. In other words everyone is blind to their obvious behaviors and we always need an outside source to see what is really going on. So in other words we always need a specialist to know what is really happening. Sounds like you guys are trying to sell a product.
Wh.. Who am i..?
pro tip:
mirror
Just look in the mirror
whoyoucallinpinhead?
IM DIRTY DATA
"Every Oi talks about how messy they are." Okay, so, you're telling me that when it comes to these people, who are literally telling you the 2 specific times in the last 5 years that they actually cleaned up their house (because it was a traumatic experience for them to clean up the place and they hate organizing) they're an Oi? Yeah.. they're an Oi because.. *introverted* observing is the bane of their existence..?
Yet, somehow when someone tells you that they can remember 2 specific times in the last 5 years that they went to a party and were extroverted (because it was a traumatic experience for them to break out of their shell and coexist with the tribe) they're a Di? Yeah.. they're a Di because.. *extroverted* deciding is the bane of their existence..?
You guys seriously need to nail down your logic before you teach a class, you can't formulate this rule and then use it in two completely different ways.
Here we go again..
of course i can, just gimme a mirror
Dam thought I was getting first comment this time. Just getting 3rd xD
Speak english.
Hahah need lots of proceaaing time for this video