SunPower MAXEON worth extra cost? Poor light solar panel test vs. conventional 100W Dokio panel [4K]
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 พ.ย. 2024
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The first in a number of simple, direct comparisons between different options when setting up a solar charging system. This episode covers the potential benefits in poor light between a normal solar panel and a more expensive offering from SunPower.
Products mentioned:
Dokio 100W flexible solar panel
Sunpower Maxeon 50W semi-flexible solar panel
Victron PWM and Smartsolar MPPT charge controllers
Turnigy 1600mAh LiFePO4 6.6V battery x 2.
Feel free to ask any questions in the comments!
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This panel can put out close to 100 watts th-cam.com/users/postUgkxOqI2yqX0XVrhR2BMJciTWrHJpG8FhJyg when positioned in the appropriate southernly direction, tilted to the optimal angle for your latitude/date, and connected to a higher capacity device than a 500. The built in kickstand angle is a fixed at 50 degrees. Up to 20% more power can be output by selecting the actual date and latitude optimal angle.The 500 will only input 3.5A maximum at 18 volts for 63 watts. Some of the excess power from the panel can be fed into a USB battery bank, charged directly from the panel while also charging a 500. This will allow you to harvest as much as 63 + 15 = 78 watts.If this panel is used to charge a larger device, such as the power station, then its full output potential can be realized.
I have found that if you are constrained by budget and you have the space, in most cases you are better off going for more, cheaper panels and bumping the voltage up as high as your MPPT CC can handle rather than fewer of the more expensive ones running at a lower voltage. I have two parallel strings of series wired panels up on my roof, best results achieved by keeping them cool with an air gap beneath them and angling toward the sun. Neither of those options will be available to you though so I would go for max voltage by series wiring the panels on each side and then running those in parallel into your SCC.
Battery bank type will make a difference and is often overlooked for charging, if you have a LiPo bank with a high C rate you can get as much charge into them as fast as possible when there is sunlight available, mine are often charged by mid to late morning on a sunny day which leaves the rest of the days solar available for me to use to run the washing machine or dishwasher or heat water with for energy storage.
You've pre-empted my plan!
@popuptoaster
Not even going to pretend to understand your gobbledy-gook..
But the manner with which you present it is quite convincing.
So, 5 ⭐'s.
@@AlexHibbertOriginals
I do wish you bon voyage! And I feel guilty that I haven't bought one of your books yet. I will.
Hey Alex Hibbert! I get a charge out of these solar episodes! They are truly enlightening! Ride ride ride!
I really appreciate that you do your own tests to judge quality and performance. It has showed up time and time again that you do your own research and make good decisions.
I use the Sunpower Maxeon 400 Watt Solar Panels on our sailboat and I have no complaints...
Interesting video, thanks for testing this comparison, look forward to future videos
A positiviely electrifying episode.
SunPower has a grade of cell even above the ones you have there. Thanks for the test!
Flexible ones?
@@AlexHibbertOriginals yes
I believe all SunPower solar cells are flexible. They're all made on a (inherently flexible) copper backing. 😊🌎☀️
Great video. The issue I have with cheap panels is they often skip the uv protection from production so your panel life span normally advertised as 25 years is actually more like 4 to 5 years.
Sunpower all the way if it's a long term power solution. For fun, learning and short term. Go. Cheap.
Solid Advice.
I'm more interested in durability and long term performance. I'd rather a well built panel which gives me 25 years of use than a cheaper panel with similar performance in the short term yet falls apart over the course of 10 years.
Hey - great video. Not enough low light comparisons on youtube! If you ever do something like this again, it would be fascinating to start at dawn, and show how production ramps up on the panels you are comparing. I think people should be wondering what the production difference is along the full gradient of darkness to full sun, before they decide whether premium panels with better low light performance are worth the money. Maybe the progression is purely linear, exhibiting roughly 20% gain at every irradiation level, but maybe not?
A lot of clever engineering would be required to use them on a boat like Alan & with the rigors of the ocean being a factor, but solar concentrators could boost your output by 4-fold or higher. They're made of very thin & lightweight aluminum sheets which have a mirror finish. You have them set at the proper angle to the solar panel and they focus more usable light towards it. They cost nearly the same as regular aluminum sheets but you still have to construct the framing, hinges, and a way to lock them into place. The solar concentrator frames (1 on each side of each of the solar panels) can be built to fold the concentrators over the solar panel to protect it & keep it clean when not in use.
I'm sure it would produce benefit, but the structural work vs the gains for this application would be cons > pros.
Make sure to not have the cables covering part of the solar cells. Even very partial shadow on a part of the panel can reduce the power output of the whole panel (depending on actual wiring inside the panel). A bit of bird poop can be enough to affect it.
Yes this was tricky to achieve. The cables are so stiff. I'm going to re-wire the ones I'm mounting on Alan.
There was also grass shading the panel in least some pictures. That could lower the panel production up to 80%.
Used 1000w of SunPower for over a year the problem i had was sun fade on the pannels. I ended up swapping them out. Intested to see how you get on.
Alas, I've sticking with a larger array of the cheapie ones.
Something not mentioned is the need for at least two charge controllers, one for each side of the boat. Solar panels in series or parallel don't like one being in shade and the other in sunlight.
Quite right. The boat installation videos will cover this.
I recently did a partial shading test with a rigid 375W panel. It reduced output by 50% by having just one column of cells obscured.
The interesting thing about your test is the shadow cast by the grass blades. Its probably worth elevating the panels and making sure absolutely no shadows are cast onto the panels. They can dramatically affect the result.
I did pull the cables out the way during the measurements. Grass blades - perhaps! Although it was diffused light and both panels had the same situation.
shading is an issue for standard p-type panels because most manufacturers try to keep costs down by stringing the individual cells in a series. so depending on how many series are in the panel, any shading will have a big impact. if the entire panel was wired in a single series, just one of the cells shaded will reduce the output for the entire panel potentially by over 90%. higher quality p-type panels use more interconnects so a shaded cell only impacts the output from that row of cells it's tied to.
sunpower uses full back contact n-type cells with individual bypass so the percent of the panel shaded more aligns with the percent output of the panel. in short, shading is not as much of an issue but for testing purposing it's still best to have wires out of the way.
for the purpose for this boat, I don't think shading will be an issue at all so solely on that it's not worth it for the much higher priced sunpower panels. that said, nearly all p-type flexible panels are junk and will die in 1, 2, or 3 years. it goes back to the way the cells are connected and by having the flex causes the connection to degrade much faster with time. that's why most flexible panel warranties are 1-2 years max while framed rigid panels offer a 20-25 year warranty. I believe sunpower offers a 5 year warranty on their flexible panels and in theory the way the cells are manufactured should give a much longer lifespan. whether it's worth the steep premium is another question. for mission critical tasks like extended cruising far away from civilization, I would not trust standard flexible panels. the best solution is to find a way to mount rigid panels but that's probably not an option the case for this boat.
Sunpower are simply the best and always have been.
Hi! When testing, were the wires over the edges of the panels and shown in the video? If so, the test is invalid, as even a 5mm shadow crossing one cell cripples the entire panel
Yeah I said the same. I have a video showing this.
I pulled the (annoyingly stiff) cables out the way as I was recording the results.
@Alex Neat! 😊🌎☀️
Do you think icing or snow will be a problem for the PVs?
I was just reminded of a friend who said he installed loops of heating wire under his PVs to get ice off them.
Don't know how successful or power-effective it was for him, or if it would be in your case, as I've heard rumors that days can be a bit colder on the polar ice than in Finland.
Yes, physical obstructions and shading will be a pain, although..... when Alan's in the ice, wind and diesel will be the main source of battery charge and power. Light levels will already make the panels produce low levels of power. They are more for late spring/summer/early autumn transits.
Would it boil the kettle
Notified in record time - the algo loves you right now :D
Quite right too!
You probably already know this but for best efficiency you want to use multiple MPPT controllers, ideally one per panel. That way if one panel is shaded it does not affect the output of the others. A shaded cell in a string can actually consume power instead of than generating it.
As a side note if you back drive a solar cell it will produce light, albeit at very low efficiency. Conversely a LED will generate a very small amount of power if you shine a light on it. The basic underlying structure of the two is quite similar, they are just optimised for different purposes.
Hi Les. Yes, for the Alan episodes where I actually rig up and connect the array, there will be two separate circuits. In an ideal world four, but life is a compromise. There's a delay as whilst I was abroad, there was some damage from the storm.
Very interesting second paragraph!
The main conclusion seems to me that mppt is the way to go.
I'll be doing a deeper dive into MPPT in the next part. MPPT is a lot more expensive, and there are certain conditions where PWM can better it. But yes, as a broad rule, MPPT Is superior.
Yeah, that's one thing that held me off not knowing what controller to get. I'll be waiting for the next video then.
The bulky boxes that the cables come from throw a large shade on the panels when the sun is at a low angle.
This is very true. Not a great deal to be done, short of a total rebuild of the terminal.
Well... if you had always tape or cables had partially covered cells, it's what you can expect.
30-40 Watt should be do-able though.
Did you remove the cables from the panel? The shots I saw they was laying on the panel? I have a video on shading on panels especially these littles ones which don't have diodes. I to have a video on 100 watt panels. Pwm vs mppt. In good light you get an extra 1amp.
Yes, I pulled them out the way. They are so stiff (I mentioned that I don't like them) that I couldn't permanently keep them out the way as I filmed the other bits of the episode.
@@AlexHibbertOriginals yeah, they are not the best cables. I am bouncing off the walls waiting for your big trip with Alan. I hope you vlog it, I have followed you from the start.
Thank you! Some way to go yet, but it'll be excellent.
I seen flexible panels and was thinking if you could make a inflatable version like a weather balloon that can go up higher with a cord holding it down. Seen where somebody was using metalized film for a 'potato chip package'. Not sure if it would work in real life but in my head sounds good 🤣
Should they always be in parallel? The battery charger can handle variety of voltages, but a broken panel is not a good conductor, so it is an issue of reliability.
The two MAXEON panels are in series, hence the higher voltage.
2 Watts from a extremely expensive and heavier panel. Maybe an option if money is not a limiting factor.
hehe i guess in your last sentence you meant, you will make more polar charge videos soon
Why's happenes to Alan?
Where I can purchase this ones ?
Sunpower don't seem to sell small panels directly. I used a UK renewables retailer.
@@AlexHibbertOriginals thx for your response . How can I contact the retailer that you used? If is not to much .. thx I’m in Uk at the moment.
www.google.com/search?q=sunpower+50w+flexible+solar+panel&oq=sunpower+110w for best prices. I gather this model is discontinued, so the stock may run out.
From most of the tests i have ever seen, unless you purchase a really nasty panel, most will perform to within 10% or so of each other and the rest of the money spent is just branding hype. Mppt has been the way to go for several years now, with Pwm falling to the wayside except in some very cheap and cheerful regulators (including ones badged as pwm). I have recently purchased a pair of 100w Renogy units, and watt for watt they perform virtually no different to my 3 year old Lg units!.
I think the badge envy issue will always be the case. Build quality may differentiate if you are using them over many years under difficult conditions. These tests do however show that MAXEON provides a significant boost in poor light. I suspect in excellent light it's less marked.
Nonsense with this idea "go cheap". Cheap is also walking but I presume driving beats walking anytime. Sunpower is in the solar industry. Who buys cheap it's because they don't afford the budget for a premium better product.
What's the deal with these ads saying I can get it free
I don't control ads I'm afraid!
Hi alex, This a is a flawed test. The PWM controller looks to have a lead acid software in it, am I right? (There is several different types of software for this model of PWM contoller.) (I believe the PWM is a chinese built device pakaged up by Vitrion.) The Maxeon will be over driving the PWM in series mode; they should be in parallel and it would account for the differance between the panels. You should test to STC conditions and then derate in a controlled fashion but I accept you are doing a quick test. The battery used in your test will have a different internal resistance and character to those you plan to use. Not good..🙂
Hi Peter. The controller is programmable for LiFePO4. :)
💥
Alert! you'll pay to Sunpower any government incentives after the initial 18 months; thus you'll not realize nongovernment incentive at all. is it a scam.?
:)