Yes, for sure. While the physical prep is key, the psychological prep is really important too. This is where we struggled on our Kilimanjaro summit attempt.
If climbing something really challenging for you, you must conserve energy for when it is needed. Lots of stories of the guy who comes into camp last being the one to summit. I was not there so hard for me to say, but sounds like a guide who did not want to really be bothered to do his job. Unfortunately there are a few lazy (and a few poorly trained) out there. Sorry for you client, that stinks.
Just watched this again. The guide was taking quite a risk by splitting the group and sending your friend down by himself. How many clients did the guide have, did he have an assistant guide helping him? He should have checked the guy out and had him stay at the high camp, then assessed him the next morning. The only danger would be if he developed problems during the night (the guide could have given him dexamethasone to help him) If the client really was at risk this should have bee recognised sooner. Having said that, sending a client down is one of the hardest decisions that a guide has to make.
Just like in every profession, guides vary in experience, judgment, people skills, etc. Your video made me think... The way most of us find a guide is by going to the website of a reputable guide service and picking an open date for the chosen mountain objective. Who the specific guide will be is usually the luck of the draw. When you think of it, that's a pretty crazy way of choosing someone to whom you are potentially entrusting your life. A friend of mine who has been ticking off the Seven Summits makes it a point to find a world class guide (Ed Viesturs / Conrad Anker caliber) and then schedules his trips around their availability. That's an extreme example, but the point is well-taken. It surely makes good sense to spend some time researching who specifically will be your guide and checking some of their references.
I recently found your channel and enjoy your videos. They are helpful. I had an opposite situation on a recent climb. I stopped my guide to tell him I didn't think I could continue the climb. He told me that I was moving strong and he thought I could reach the summit. He gave me the choice but strongly encouraged me to continue. I trusted him and made it safely to the summit and back down. I'm sure guide are trained on what to look for in clients that signal potential problems. For me it was just self-doubt getting in the way.
Yeah it's not an easy decision to make and it comes with experience on both sides, that of the guide and the client. It's easy to be freaked out about altitude the first time and also to have summit anxiety. Glad you made it up and back safely!
went to Base camp 2016, got more out of breath more going up kala Pattar, was struggling with breath but made it and had the best experience of my life.
Doing my first real ascent of a mountain about 13,000 ft on skies, I know the being fit and still blowing yourself up experience. Once I got to the top ridge, I was in pain. That oppressive nausea, and headache was for real! I wasn’t sure if I was severely dehydrated or if it was the altitude but either way, I had to weight for my friends to ride the lift to me and ski down like that. Not that fun. Even sitting around, things were pretty intense. Conditions were certainly not best, very stick slip, which is super tiring on telemark skis. I had been training and competing, and even winning (my age group) sprint triathlons earlier that year. I agree with you. Should have gotten to camp three and better re-evaluated there. Even if sending your client down was the right call, letting the dude rest up a bit before sending him down would seem to have the better play. Unless that 20 minute last section was super technical, of course. Might have given the other fellows that weren’t gonna summit an opportunity to hike down with him. Not sure the logistics of leaving the client at camp the to the have him descend with the group returning from the summit so he could have support again. If this guy was in rough enough shape to not make the ascent, was he in good enough shape to down climb alone?! Honestly seems more dangerous than having him waiting at camp 3 for the day.
Very very well said Chase ....speed is irrelevant. When I did EBC which recognise is a lot easier i went with a guide and myself only . We started earlier than anyone else took it real slow still got to each place ahead of most people . I found it easier just to plod on at my pace which is slow but I am nearly 60. Best trip of my life . Should be heading off to Annapurna Circuit now but for Covid . Excellent advice as always .
Excellent 👍🏿 I am planning on going to Nepal when the borders are fully open again, and doing the Annapurna Base Camp Trek. 😊 I have a very good Nepalese friend who is a registered trekking guide in Pokhara, so he will guide me.
If you hire an experienced mountain guide, you should trust their judgement. Yes, decisions can be wrong but that is a fact of life. At the end of the day they are there to help you and if they believe it to be too risky to go on I would fully expect the person to follow their advice. If someone is going too slowly for the group they shouldn't continue - it is unfair to expect everyone to wait in harsh conditions because someone is not up to it and refuses to turn around. Yes there are exceptions to this, and in this case the guide could have been totally wrong, but at the end of the day you are there for the experience not the summit. Or at least I'd like to think that would be why people climb these mountains.
True. But in my opinion it was more risky to let an inexperienced climber descend four or more hours on their own rather than just continue up for 20 mins you know what I mean? Seems weird.
Dont be too harsh to the mountain guide. He was there and you were not. And maybe he was wrong, yes but that is easy to say retrospectively. I dont want to be mean to your client but maybe he isnt the most reliable source to judge wether the conditions were right to finish the climb or not if he hasnt done any mountaineering before.
True, there could have been 1000 other factors that I haven't considered. I've actually sent the company a bunch of emails and asked to talk to that guide about the situation and also the head guide - but no response. If 9 out of 12 people summited, the conditions where fine.
A guide whose only concern is to get his client to the top has no respect for the mountains in my opinion. And vice versa. If a person hires a guide just to get him to the top will never learn anything and in some cases will think he gained experience to climb the next mountain on his own. A good guide communicates about the trip, before, during and after. For me personally, the experience is the most important while learning a lot along the way.
Same story happened to a guy I know on the summit day, and he was more exhausted but he kept pushing even the guide told him to go down. He said that the guides prefer to summit with less people so it will be easier for them in the way down.
Hi Chase. completly agree it was a wrong decision to turn Paul down at that point. Its unfortunate so many guides make that same mistake, at the end of the day its business. .... Hope he keeps on climbing.
Hi, I love your videos, good information and as far as I can tell you are being very honest about things including reviews of gear. There is one thing I dislike and that is the music. I don't like listening to someone talk with background music. And your music is very distracting.
@@ChaseMountains I must have missed that detail, but that's really not cool if they/he had concerns. That's cause for major concern really given that the majority of accidents happen on descents...
Chase Mountains it seems very unprofessional to send someone down alone when they’re feeling unwell. what could have happened to him? doesn’t seem like a safe way to solve the issue
If the guide thought he was suffering from altitude sickness it makes totally sense to make him lose altitude a fast as possible, rather than waiting for the following day.
Very interesting topic mate. Ignorant question, but can you dispute a decision like this with the guide in question? I know that there are those from simply watching all these vids on mountaineering that they feel “entitled” to go to the summit because they paid to do so, however, as you say he did not display the classic symptoms of altitude sickness then surely he could argue his case?
I should have mentioned this in the video but I've tried multiple times to get a response from the guide and the company to understand the situation better. This is kind of a last resort. **Cuts life into pieces***
Sorry for your client, it sounds like he was doing well. I think on our summit night we really didn't go any faster, maybe slower. Not a great experience, something I think I could do a better job at next time.
The head coach of my business started her own thing when I left, but we have differing opinions on what the best path is. I'd recommend my programs lol.
I don't think it's fair to judge your client's guide based on just his or her view of the situation. Why not give him a phone call and have two opinions next to each other? I think it might have been a decision probably not taken lightly to make a paying customer turn around...
@@ChaseMountains lol 😂 not from where I sit! I like your level of experience and learned wisdom. You are more credible than very young people. I'm a Nana so you are definitely still young 😂👌🏿🌳
When you choose to climb with a group, you need to know yourself and know whether or not you are a group/ team person. I am not. I found that out the hard way in January of 2022 while climbing Aconcagua with a group, unless these people are friends or people you have climbed with before. Hence, what I am actually saying is that I will never ever ever everrr anymore in my live climb any mountain with strangers. The thing is that climbing with a private guide is much more expensive.
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Would you save yourself for Summit Day?
Yes, for sure. While the physical prep is key, the psychological prep is really important too. This is where we struggled on our Kilimanjaro summit attempt.
If climbing something really challenging for you, you must conserve energy for when it is needed. Lots of stories of the guy who comes into camp last being the one to summit.
I was not there so hard for me to say, but sounds like a guide who did not want to really be bothered to do his job. Unfortunately there are a few lazy (and a few poorly trained) out there. Sorry for you client, that stinks.
Just watched this again. The guide was taking quite a risk by splitting the group and sending your friend down by himself. How many clients did the guide have, did he have an assistant guide helping him? He should have checked the guy out and had him stay at the high camp, then assessed him the next morning. The only danger would be if he developed problems during the night (the guide could have given him dexamethasone to help him) If the client really was at risk this should have bee recognised sooner. Having said that, sending a client down is one of the hardest decisions that a guide has to make.
Here in Argentina, home country of Aconcagua we say (in spanish): Walk like an old man, arrive like a teen. Interesting video. Keep em coming. Sub'd !
Just like in every profession, guides vary in experience, judgment, people skills, etc.
Your video made me think... The way most of us find a guide is by going to the website of a reputable guide service and picking an open date for the chosen mountain objective. Who the specific guide will be is usually the luck of the draw. When you think of it, that's a pretty crazy way of choosing someone to whom you are potentially entrusting your life.
A friend of mine who has been ticking off the Seven Summits makes it a point to find a world class guide (Ed Viesturs / Conrad Anker caliber) and then schedules his trips around their availability. That's an extreme example, but the point is well-taken. It surely makes good sense to spend some time researching who specifically will be your guide and checking some of their references.
What happened on Mont Blanc? You said "shit went down", but I couldn't find the follow up de-brief video.
You certainly do care! Im sure Paul knew he had you on his side!
I recently found your channel and enjoy your videos. They are helpful.
I had an opposite situation on a recent climb. I stopped my guide to tell him I didn't think I could continue the climb. He told me that I was moving strong and he thought I could reach the summit. He gave me the choice but strongly encouraged me to continue. I trusted him and made it safely to the summit and back down. I'm sure guide are trained on what to look for in clients that signal potential problems. For me it was just self-doubt getting in the way.
Yeah it's not an easy decision to make and it comes with experience on both sides, that of the guide and the client. It's easy to be freaked out about altitude the first time and also to have summit anxiety. Glad you made it up and back safely!
went to Base camp 2016, got more out of breath more going up kala Pattar, was struggling with breath but made it and had the best experience of my life.
Would be good to get in touch with the guide and ask his reasons for turning your client down.
Yeah I tried multiple times to no response :/
@@ChaseMountains too bad.
Doing my first real ascent of a mountain about 13,000 ft on skies, I know the being fit and still blowing yourself up experience.
Once I got to the top ridge, I was in pain. That oppressive nausea, and headache was for real! I wasn’t sure if I was severely dehydrated or if it was the altitude but either way, I had to weight for my friends to ride the lift to me and ski down like that. Not that fun. Even sitting around, things were pretty intense. Conditions were certainly not best, very stick slip, which is super tiring on telemark skis. I had been training and competing, and even winning (my age group) sprint triathlons earlier that year.
I agree with you. Should have gotten to camp three and better re-evaluated there. Even if sending your client down was the right call, letting the dude rest up a bit before sending him down would seem to have the better play. Unless that 20 minute last section was super technical, of course. Might have given the other fellows that weren’t gonna summit an opportunity to hike down with him. Not sure the logistics of leaving the client at camp the to the have him descend with the group returning from the summit so he could have support again. If this guy was in rough enough shape to not make the ascent, was he in good enough shape to down climb alone?! Honestly seems more dangerous than having him waiting at camp 3 for the day.
Exactly, he can't have been that bad if he was able to hike back down the entire mountain alone. Hence the spiteful video hahaha
Very very well said Chase ....speed is irrelevant. When I did EBC which recognise is a lot easier i went with a guide and myself only . We started earlier than anyone else took it real slow still got to each place ahead of most people . I found it easier just to plod on at my pace which is slow but I am nearly 60. Best trip of my life . Should be heading off to Annapurna Circuit now but for Covid . Excellent advice as always .
Excellent 👍🏿
I am planning on going to Nepal when the borders are fully open again, and doing the Annapurna Base Camp Trek. 😊
I have a very good Nepalese friend who is a registered trekking guide in Pokhara, so he will guide me.
I'd have a hard time with that decision, I'm with ya!
I think you hit it spot on
I guided Aconcagua in 2000. Some pretty dodgy outfitters
Even some very well known climbers had poor organization
If you hire an experienced mountain guide, you should trust their judgement. Yes, decisions can be wrong but that is a fact of life. At the end of the day they are there to help you and if they believe it to be too risky to go on I would fully expect the person to follow their advice. If someone is going too slowly for the group they shouldn't continue - it is unfair to expect everyone to wait in harsh conditions because someone is not up to it and refuses to turn around.
Yes there are exceptions to this, and in this case the guide could have been totally wrong, but at the end of the day you are there for the experience not the summit. Or at least I'd like to think that would be why people climb these mountains.
True. But in my opinion it was more risky to let an inexperienced climber descend four or more hours on their own rather than just continue up for 20 mins you know what I mean? Seems weird.
@@ChaseMountains Yeah in this situation it does seem very strange, I agree
Dont be too harsh to the mountain guide. He was there and you were not. And maybe he was wrong, yes but that is easy to say retrospectively. I dont want to be mean to your client but maybe he isnt the most reliable source to judge wether the conditions were right to finish the climb or not if he hasnt done any mountaineering before.
True, there could have been 1000 other factors that I haven't considered. I've actually sent the company a bunch of emails and asked to talk to that guide about the situation and also the head guide - but no response. If 9 out of 12 people summited, the conditions where fine.
Good Chats and I think its good advice!
A guide whose only concern is to get his client to the top has no respect for the mountains in my opinion. And vice versa. If a person hires a guide just to get him to the top will never learn anything and in some cases will think he gained experience to climb the next mountain on his own. A good guide communicates about the trip, before, during and after. For me personally, the experience is the most important while learning a lot along the way.
Totally agree with you on that. Guiding is more than leading the way, it's about interpretation of the surroundings.
Great vid beautiful view and i would agree with you on this!
It's worth mentioning that some people work as mountain guides without any formal training or qualification. In some countries this is not illegal.
Love your vids!
Wow! I heard this same situation from my hiking buddy five years ago.
Same story happened to a guy I know on the summit day, and he was more exhausted but he kept pushing even the guide told him to go down. He said that the guides prefer to summit with less people so it will be easier for them in the way down.
Was this on Aconcagua as well? I believe that. Guiding is hard work, after a while you would want to make it easier for yourself.
@@ChaseMountains Yes, it happened on Aconcagua.
Hi Chase. completly agree it was a wrong decision to turn Paul down at that point. Its unfortunate so many guides make that same mistake, at the end of the day its business. .... Hope he keeps on climbing.
Excellent
Hi, I love your videos, good information and as far as I can tell you are being very honest about things including reviews of gear. There is one thing I dislike and that is the music. I don't like listening to someone talk with background music. And your music is very distracting.
Surely would have been better for the guide to send him down the following day if he had concerns than send him back 4 hrs down on the same day?
and by himself none the less... right? Seems crazy
@@ChaseMountains I must have missed that detail, but that's really not cool if they/he had concerns. That's cause for major concern really given that the majority of accidents happen on descents...
Chase Mountains it seems very unprofessional to send someone down alone when they’re feeling unwell. what could have happened to him? doesn’t seem like a safe way to solve the issue
@@annamartin9840 it turns out he had a Porter with him so I fake news on my behalf there 🤣
If the guide thought he was suffering from altitude sickness it makes totally sense to make him lose altitude a fast as possible, rather than waiting for the following day.
Very interesting topic mate. Ignorant question, but can you dispute a decision like this with the guide in question? I know that there are those from simply watching all these vids on mountaineering that they feel “entitled” to go to the summit because they paid to do so, however, as you say he did not display the classic symptoms of altitude sickness then surely he could argue his case?
I should have mentioned this in the video but I've tried multiple times to get a response from the guide and the company to understand the situation better. This is kind of a last resort. **Cuts life into pieces***
Sorry for your client, it sounds like he was doing well. I think on our summit night we really didn't go any faster, maybe slower. Not a great experience, something I think I could do a better job at next time.
It can be super tough your first time at high altitude. It gets easier!
@@ChaseMountains that is very good to know!!
Hey man, so seeing you're not in Brissy anymore, is there anyone here you could recommend for some one on one hiking PT?
The head coach of my business started her own thing when I left, but we have differing opinions on what the best path is. I'd recommend my programs lol.
@@ChaseMountains Well I'll keep watching them haha
Barcelona behind you?
true
Biggest mistake was choice of mountain - his first peak?!
I don't think it's fair to judge your client's guide based on just his or her view of the situation. Why not give him a phone call and have two opinions next to each other? I think it might have been a decision probably not taken lightly to make a paying customer turn around...
I've made many attempts to contact them but to no avail. I would have loved a phone call.
Your’e old? I disagree, and so would Jack Lalane.
Old at heart 😉 or at least old for TH-cam
So get a transplant. Or perhaps a new adventure pursuit, at my age, (not important) I have rediscovered bicycling. Road, trail ect.
@@ChaseMountains lol 😂 not from where I sit!
I like your level of experience and learned wisdom. You are more credible than very young people.
I'm a Nana so you are definitely still young 😂👌🏿🌳
Is this a one side story.....,or what? 🤣
ew. Why would I ever use a guide. That removes the whole fun/challenge of mountaineering
When you choose to climb with a group, you need to know yourself and know whether or not you are a group/ team person. I am not. I found that out the hard way in January of 2022 while climbing Aconcagua with a group, unless these people are friends or people you have climbed with before. Hence, what I am actually saying is that I will never ever ever everrr anymore in my live climb any mountain with strangers. The thing is that climbing with a private guide is much more expensive.