Last week, I met with three people. The first, a man I'll call Derrick. Derrick had a kind word for everyone, was generous with his time and energy and shared vulnerable stories without hesitation. I left Derrick's company feeling uplifted and safe. The second was a woman, Irene. Irene was a bit more self-focused, but she wanted to do good in her community. When I disagreed with her on something, she accepted with little resistance. I left her company feeling neutral. Spending time with her wasn't uplifting, but it wasn't a drag. The last was my aunt, Tammy. Tammy is a spinster and with good reason. Almost everything she says is critical gossip, and she has no regard for the feelings of the person she's conversing with. When she says something positive about someone, it's because that person was cooperative with her... and it's usually followed up with something negative. "They're really skilled... but too soft." Many people are "too soft" in Tammy's eyes. She cackled with glee at a workplace story which I recognized as bullying. I spent an hour with Tammy and I left feeling completely drained. Holes of self-doubt had been poked into me. I recognized myself in some of the people she was criticizing. Was I also "too soft"? Was I also "dirt beneath her feet"? Later, I snapped at my husband when he tried to help me with something. He called me out on it; it wasn't like me. It was the negativity of aunt Tammy sneaking into my spirit. I had to take more time to decompress from her toxic influence than I spent with her! Anyway, this is an example of how someone can deplete you, and what that looks like in your life. Look for the Derricks in your life, and spend the majority of your time with them. Excise the Tammys -- they aren't worth the damage they'll do to your spirit or relationships.
Narcissistic parents make their kids feel that they caused the parents' behaviour and bring on their own abuse because of it . It takes years to ever recognize or feel worthy of better treatment .
And if you're damaged enough, you pick a partner just like the narcissistic parent so you get decades more of being told it's your fault. Funny how we're puppet masters that magically control the actions and words of others since it's not their fault, whatever they did....
I’m out there trying to find my tribe. I’m using the criteria you describe like people who are engaged, who exhibit self care, interest in me as a person, people who are curious about me and willing to let me be curious about them, people who are consistent. I especially pay attention to how I feel after I’ve spent time with a person. Do I feel relaxed and energized? Or do I feel drained and frustrated? What I have found is this. Safe people for me do exist. I have found them. But there are many unsafe people for me out there. That’s why it’s so important to be discerning. The amount of unhealthy and traumatized people out there is staggering.
So great "I’m out there trying to find my tribe. I’m using the criteria you describe like people who are engaged, who exhibit self care, interest in me as a person, people who are curious about me and willing to let me be curious about them, people who are consistent. I especially pay attention to how I feel after I’ve spent time with a person. Do I feel relaxed and energized? Or do I feel drained and frustrated?" The worst feeling in the world is when you think you have found the safe person you describe (I totally agree to look for the signs) & they turn into an abuser after a few months.You cannot blame yourself but defend yourself better. You are right there are so many unhealthy individuals.
But, the scary part is that narcissists can often be, in the beginning, very curious about your experiences etc. They can fake to be normal, wonderful and even empathetic so well.. That's the love-bombing phase. You have to know a person really well before you really know if they are safe or not. I think it's important to observe if they are genuine about their own experiences and it they really want to share them. If you get a feeling that they are hiding something or if they are inconsistent in their behavior - there probably is a problem.. If they get annoyed or moody (watch carefully, sometimes they try to hide it with a nervous fake smile etc.) if you ask certain questions and so on, there's a chance that you're dealing with a narcissist. It's also important to observe how they have lived their lives, how people behave around them, and how they behave in different situations and around different people. And you have to trust your gut. Don't downplay the warnings signals and ignore the red flags when you see them.
@@annehynynen8153 here’s how I see it. I’ve done 3 years of intense healing and growth. I know enough now to recognize the red flags, and there are always red flags. I’m not afraid of narcissistic people any longer. I do still get triggered from time to time. What’s really helpful for me is to have secure, healthy relationships. Now that I have some of those I can use them as a benchmark for comparison when I meet a new person. So now when I meet someone toxic, they look REALLY toxic as compared to my healthy relationships. Works well for me.
I found out that I confused energised state with running on adrenaline/cortisol because all social interactions were extremely stressful for me after abuse. I was so used to constant stressed out C-PTSD state in social interactions, that I couldn't point out - how it feels to be safe and relaxed and energised in good sense. I was either numb and dissociating, or running on stress hormones.
I've gotten so good at dissecting people's personality traits that I will probably never have another intimate relationship. It's amazing how obvious it all is once you know about it. Or maybe, now that I am not just trying to make everyone like me, I can step back and see reality. And reality is pretty .... interesting :)
I can completely relate to what you said about next longer being in a phase in life where you're trying to make everyone like you. I used to persue relationships just because I thought there was a societal expectation for me to be in one. As I recovered from narcissistic abuse and learner to set boundaries I became more vigilant of people and their nature. Sure, love exists, but as a scapegoated child I probably statistically won't find it.
It is extremely important to find safe people after being narcisistically abused. It is the love and acceptance that is curative. Thank you for sharing your experiences.
I was so busy trying to connect with people and make them like me that I didn't pay attention to red flags in the relationship and actually gravitated to women friends that reminded me of my Narcissistic mother in an attempt to get their approval. I'm now in my 70's and just beginning to understand the reality of being a scapegoated child of Narcissistic parents. I'm so grateful for Jay providing these insightful and detailed videos and the brave and honest community.
Narcissist feign empathy to get you to divulge your vulnerabilities and then use them against you later, by gossiping about your and throwing them back in your face. They may tell you a few things and if you have integrity you won't divulge their secrets. They aren't loyal. You find out later that they are unsafe.
This video is so helpful. I would no-contact a narc or not cooperate and be discarded by one narc after another. And their supporters. I would think, no way. I would sometimes flush a whole group! Then a new jerk would just replace them, repeat cycle. I learned to carefully qualify friends. I enjoy just about everyone, but friends have to be a much higher level person. They are there - rare and wonderful.
Dr Reid, 1 I would also suggest we add: Is dependable and reliable. 2 Their actions match their words. 3 There's an equal give and take exchange. 4. Their character or identity is constant in multiple types of social situations.
I still attract narcissistic people but it fades instantly because I'm done with them - now I prepare myself to attract only safe people, just need a little bit time to recognise them so this video really made sense to me, perfect timing🤗
The safest person is your Higher Self.. the brave you who weathered the Storm.. I think once u identify the Agenda of a toxic Family Dynamic.. all u have to do is to stop Identifying with the Agenda.. it's a conscious process.. but your saving Grace is only n ultimately the knowledge that you can't n don't have to play a Proverbial Role.. anymore 🙏🙏
That book by Dr.Cloud was instrumental in me finding safe people after being raised by narcissistic parents and being with a narcissistic partner for 12 years. It was SO helpful!
Thank you for your moving comment about the book by Dr Cloud. I have a feeling that reading it will be an important next step for my recovery from a recent heartbreak as well as growing up in a narcissistic family system.
This was how I felt when I joined the army at 18, way back in 1977. Basic training, Americans call it boot camp, was tough, but the NCO instructors were generally good guys and I made a lot of friends in the first few months. My biggest fear was being singled out, it just never happened. It changed me forever and in a good way. I also discovered I was mentally tougher than I realised. I was still young enough to be influenced by the older NCO's . Family back home never really understood that I had changed and being so far from home I just got on with my life.
Happy for you David! I kick myself constantly for not going into service, I wanted to be a pilot and go into the Airforce. I had a crazy uncle that was in the Army and told me a lot of negative BS about it, and I had been very physically abused until an older age so I was afraid I couldn't handle Boot Camp after watching some movies about it being really brutal. Now I'm the crazy uncle, of nieces and nephews I have no contact with anymore, was forced to go no contact 10 yrs ago. Wish I had a frickin time machine, glad you made the good decision that worked out for ya. Stay strong friend.
@@lauriedmills7581 Yes, I never considered myself worse off than the other soldiers I joined with, many were from broken homes, usually with a stepfather problem, some even came from orphanages. One guy was an ex Jehova Witness, he joined with just the clothes on his back.
@@DavidFraser007 David, If you are from the U.K., like myself, have you read any books from SAS's Ant Middleton ,Colin Machlachlan, Jason Fox ? I think the reason some of them went into the SAS in the first place was because of abusive home lifes.
@@clairejohnson6522 It's actually true that many of the mates I had came from broken homes, it wasn't always abusive, sometimes just estrangement. Our NCOs knew this, they used to joke that we wouldn't get homesick. I was never in any of the special forces, but we still relied and trusted each other more than our families.
My dogs have helped me in profound way to understand what love and connection feel like. There are so many examples of this. It's not jus about dog's devotion to us either. Their openness and vulnerability make them so easy to love without fear. I am only completely relaxed and being able to be myself when I am alone with them.
Jay, I think you're better than any other on the subject of narcissism in the TH-cam sphere. With a clearer understanding of their subconscious motivation it has truly made it easier to endure. When you don't know why they're doing what they're doing the confusion is maddening. That narcissists project their own feelings of worthlessness onto others is a key component of abuse that victims can make use of for survival and its something a few others only touch on briefly.
Dr.Reid, i want to thank you for all of the wonderful insights you have provided me with over the last six months I have watched your channel. You have truly blessed my life in ways you can not imagine, and I am profoundly grateful for your genuine humanity and thoughtfulness. I am so glad i happened upon your channel by accident, or not so accidentally when I really needed your help processing my experiences. You Sir are really, really, really good.
Thank you Jay! This video is good timing for me right now. I found your channel about a week ago and it felt like you have been reading my journal from the last few months. You have addressed so many things I have learned about myself and my past relationships with narcissists. One big one was that my inner voice has been taken over by the narcissists in my life and I've had no room for my own feelings, beliefs and ideas. I am now starting over from scratch after letting go of my only close friend. The thing is that in the beginning this friend seemed to exhibit many of the safe qualities you described. I have had many narcissists show interest in me in the beginning. They get me to open up and later use it against me. I have found the safe people in my life not to expect to know everything about me in the beginning. They show interest without bombarding me with a bunch of personal questions. They don't lavish me with unnecessary praise and don't expect me to do the same to them. They allow me to disagree with them without using it as a character flaw in me. I am just too easy going in the beginning and try so hard accepting the other person once relationships became toxic. I think a a good determinant of a safe relationship is also when you can be authentic from the very beginning and I am still accepted.
I am working on breaking the habit of censoring myself and my opinions and going into a false self people please mode. I’ve had relationships that lasted for years where I finally woke up and thought, gosh I don’t even like this person, why am I such ‘close’ friends? That is not a quality I want in myself because that is an unsafe characteristic too. So, I have to be completely honest and hyper aware of when my gut says it doesn’t like something and then speak up about it within a few hours. If I am received well, then I continue with the relationship. If not then it just might not be a good fit and I don’t need to waste several years to find this out. I was so frightened of abandonment I really held on to toxic friendships until I reached a threshold. Then I’d be gone, because I had no idea how to say that basically everything about the person upset me. I don’t accept that behavior in myself anymore. It’s not being true to me or being true to others. It’s a process and I’m learning that it does matter that I speak out if someone angers me or upsets me. It matters to me, so I don’t accept poor behavior from others and then find myself months or years later having to exit a friendship because I’ve amassed a ton of resentments, that I’ve turned into an angry person and can barely speak. I can practice speaking up. It sucks because the abuse kicks in and says; what a witch, what a terrible person I am, etc. when it’s a totally legit concern. I got angry the other day because a car drove way too close and fast by me as I was walking, I put my hand up to say ‘what the hell?? Slow down’ and it for real took me a couple days to validate to myself that it was normal to feel upset and to react that way to a speeding car coming at me and that I wasn’t over reacting. Slowly but surely I will gain more confidence every day and not second guess myself. Practice makes progress 💪 Thanks for this video. 🙏
I'm currently at the place where I believe I've recognized to be unsafe people in my life, spoiler alert, it was pretty much everyone. I'm not the type of person that can go my whole life without having another friends or human interaction so this is really important to me, having healthy boundaries and recognizing people that are good for me. A lot of the people that turned out to be unsafe for me really seems like they were safe people at the beginning, it was so nice to be around then but I ignored some warning signs because I used to Gaslight myself
It's very hard to find safe people to trust opening up to who can relate to your pain and make you feel like you can share what you are feeling and going through.
Exactly! Jay is the only person who does not only provide a super valuable content, but also provides deep comfort, sense of safety and validation. His inner peace radiating through the videos is unbelievable. I can hardly imagine that people can be so peaceful, so calm and so compassionate.
Thank you, Jay! I feel greatly helped by all your videos. This heartwarming one is just what I need at this time as I strive to move forward after ending a heartbreaking relationship with narcissist leader of a spirituality group I was deeply a part of for many years. I had to leave the group, which was dear to me, in order to escape the socially powerful leader and her verbal abuse.
Jay, I'm new to your channel and this is exactly what I'm going through. The problem is, I'm realizing that there are a lot of narcs out there, more than I imagined. You really have to observe pattern behaviour and most importantly, how people make YOU FEEL and not what they say. Yes, I agree it is the "absence of connectedness." I am being very selective with whom I continue a relationship with b/c of this reason. If I'm alone, that's okay, at least I'm connecting with myself and not in an unsafe relationship. Thank you for validating me Jay with this video.
Please go on with your videos, Jay! I feel you reach deeper layers, a deeper level than other (often also good) TH-cam channels about this topic. Thank you!
This man really understands & explains this type of psychological & emotional abuse probably more thoroughly than most. i am so grateful for his observations & information he shares here & in the written material on his website.
My mother sent me away to boarding schools. she said I had ruined her life. She told my dad she would leave him if he didn’t get rid of me. This topic is really helpful to me as I seem to have difficulty finding safe people. I seem to either run into those who adore me & think I’m wonderful or those who want to prey upon me & harm me.. Feast or famine, mostly famine.
Very helpful list - offers me clarity, validation for some of my subtle discomforts with some relationships I have been easing away from. Just trying on the list is healing and gives me hope that I can find and enjoy more safe people. Thank you
As a young adult, I quickly dropped any men who even slightly reminded me of my father - complaining, critical, quick to anger, stingy, etc. I found a man who used to not just tolerate, not just accept, but he actually appreciated me and treated me like a queen. This went on mostly for a few decades, until he fell, lost consciousness and had a huge bump on his head and slept for days. I think that head trauma caused his mood swings and walking on eggshells and making me feel like I can’t do anything right by him, whereas before, I couldn’t do wrong by him. He’s not a narcissist, but I think this personality change has made him more controlling. So now that my father has been dead, I have my Mr. Hyde to replace him, but as a male companion. We get along most of the time. If I ever find anyone else for opposite sex companionship or for same sex friendship, I shall settle for nothing less than having the ground I walk on worshipped.
I was stiffed in every way possible. Had to learn everything once I left and ventured into young adulthood. My paternal grandparents were awesome and their love started me on my way.
I'm gonna have to play this hundreds of times to check that I as well as the other person resemble these traits when forming new friendships. Thanks for the guidance
Thank you again, Jay. It's been challenging but very rewarding learning about negotiation, trust and character etc. The hardest part for me has been learning to trust myself. "Am I still deceivable and coercible?" is an important question to ask and to ensure the answer is, "No, I am not," and be able to explain why. Cloud & Townsend's work have helped many people - it's great stuff. One thing I noticed that helps me is when a narc person tries to apply boundaries - they can't do it - it ends up being control dressed up as choice, punishment being dressed up as consequences and for those used to "smelling such rats" they're helpful warning signs.
Helpful information! The list is great but I also feel a little sad about it because it seems like I don't run across those attributes often. I guess it will just take time and patience to find more safe people.
This American Gentlemen is wonderful.Full of knowledge he is sharing with us people unfortunate enough to have come across these sick,twisted individuals.What a likeable man,also.🌻
OMG so awesome! I am now making a "safe list"! I am also learning to trust a therapist! I finally sat and explained why I said , "I HATE OTHER WOMEN!" to my therapist WHICH made her think I was BPD! I explained my two Cathy's in my life. She asked if I had ANYONE nice to converse with and I said, 'A few I call them the "good mom's" and they are BUSY being Good Mom's!'
I know there are certain people that I can say anything to, we relate well and are so comfortable when we see each other, I love being around people like that. They can say the truth, I can too, and that is not a problem. I have several friends that I have that relationship with... And then again...there are people who are prickly. I am very uncomfortable around them. You can tell they are fake and have ulterior motives. They just stand out, and I can see their micro-expressions of contempt which probably only last a split second, but to me it looks like they hold that contemptuous expression on their face for 2 or 3 seconds, and is very clear who they really are. They don't think I see the real them, but I certainly do. And for that reason, I mostly stay away from snarky prickly people. I am not being snobbish, I am protecting myself. Even Jesus said to brush the dust off your feet and move on if someone doesn't want you around. I gladly do that. I don't want to be around them, any more than they want to be around me.
Host nailed it,again. The reciprocity thing...and recognition of who is safe. Settling has been a way of life. Love Cloud and Townsend. I do not know if New Life Live is still broadcasted,but that was my intro to theses guys. Often they co-host.
Many thanks for your differentiated and helpful list! Emotional availability (in the sense of emotional touchability), the ability to also adapt to the needs of others (my needs) Willingness to seek and offer compromises ("we") Gentleness a pattern of "both and" in words and deeds, I would add.
Excellent - thanks, Jay! A few years ago, I began putting together detailed lists like this, mostly in regards to a mate. It has been useful exercise, I've found. Still haven't met a guy who fits the bill, but just HAVING criteria saves a lot of time and energy. I've just recently been thinking of this more in terms of friendship, as well--what qualities do I want in a friend--and one of the phrases I've picked up on another channel is one of the primary characteristics: psyche-minded. Less about where one is on the journey of healing and self-awareness than about being on the journey at all!
I greatly appreciate this content. There are so many videos out there describing narcs and the damage they leave in their wake; but once survivors have gotten a clear picture of all that, we limit our progress if we stew in it. It’s very helpful to learn how to REBUILD. Self-worth (or a sense of self at all), desire to care for oneself, learning to set healthy boundaries, finding safe people, building healthy relationships, etc. Thank you!
Thank you so much for this! Looking at it like this and having a list to work off of really helps. In the past I think I've rushed into friendships and relationships...now going forward I am going to take things much slower and pay attention to how I feel, really feel after interacting with people. It is such a work in progress. So glad to have your videos. I am learning so much. Thanks again!
This was so helpful. You said exactly what I needed to hear. I’ve been struggling with accepting the decision to go no contact with some people and it was because I didn’t feel safe with them. The list you detailed put that to rest. Thank you so much!!
I can't believe I've never heard of this book until now. I also liked the book How to Avoid Marrying a Jerk by John Van Epp which also helpfully outlines evaluating someone's character
and the reason genuine loving connection- 'the more connected to yourself you are the more you can connect with them' is because that healthy person WANTS to know you and is curious and interested in you. narcissistic people dont care about who you are and are completely UNINTERESTED/ UNABLE to connect with YOU and the real you. they operate from their "false self" and they require the people around them to validate and prop it up to keep the charade going. so naturally that requires lying to kowtow to that agenda because the premise of that situation is FAKE to begin with. the false self is a lie and lies are required to "fluff" it. truth tellers and scapegoats are razed for their "seeing through the matrix" of these dynamics
Wow.. my best friend ticks all those qualities... It's my first experience of a safe relationship and it's amazing how safe people are safe flawlessly.😅
Yes 🙌 generosity of spirit is so easy for people who have great feeling for others…(I guess many have gone numb for their feelings for others and can only feel for themselves- and that includes in relationships with other lost people of similar perspective, not just their feeling-for-others targets/victims). So unfortunately, what people with these lost perceptions want is complete martyrdom to their unhealthy needs and requirements for “connection.” A complete sacrifice on one’s life! And if they can couch all that as a necessity to be a GOOD PERSON on that sacrifice? Well, to a person who being a good person is important too, the mind-bending manipulations ensue! 🌼 I’m flowering inside in the abandoned lands within! Thank you Jay & thank you God for Jay!
My family was poor/lower middle class but I spent a lot of time with people of wealth and privilege. They have these same issues~it just manifests in different ways… same with these abuses that are coupled with religion or atheism-it can all be used in the same way. Many people in these lost perspectives don’t have friends in the real sense--only allies for their own self-centered purposes. What I love about your work, is that you don’t demonize them-just highlight understanding their lost mentality and terrible effects they have on lives. And they are so sadly miserable… but martyrdom for misery is not the way to heal anything… it only grows rhe misgotten power of lost perspectives on the planet. Growth mentality & growth spirituality! even though this is using the tools of psychology, you are using them in Love with a capital L, and so the movements and growth inside is very spiritual 💗🌤️🌼 what you do with psychology is full of love. A master craftsman of loving and true psychology-from deep wisdom.
thank you so much for making these videos, it's honestly so embarrasing not knowing how to navigate relationships when all you've known is abuse...slowly coming out of my shell to safe others
Wow. This was exactly the resource I needed to figure this out. Took notes! Good work. I'd love to see more on this topic. When you grow up this way, it is so hard to identify safe people.
That first point and title card is 1000% my experience in dating. It's been excruciating over the years how much I've not done what I want for fear of having someone leave me. Or, I sometimes I will rebel and swing wildly in the reverse and end up hurting someone I care for, because I feel I have to defiantly choose myself. Or, sometimes it's just been really hard to determine what is helpful and what is the trigger from the past and so I choose blindly and extreme in either case. I feel I'm getting a lot better, but I still really hadn't realized how much this fear in relationships was related to my dad and his behavior. It's daunting but so liberating to see. Thank you!
Caring about oneself is definitely a good point, but I don't want to exclude people who have problems with executive functioning (depression, C-PTSD, on the spectrum, etc) - they can be far more safe and trustworthy than regular people taking care of themselves. And people who have their own goals and interests can be very self-absorbed and toxic. They are safe only in the way that they won't chase you and try to punish for going no contact. I appreciate your work and in no way try to minimize this useful template, just don't trust people anymore, after such amount of toxicity and destruction.
Narcissistic abuse is not an event in my life, it is my life. I was born into a narcissistic family, married it and now my adult children display narcissistic traits. Safe people? I haven’t found them-true unicorns!
i also like this framing in the "SAFE" context because it shifts our black and white assumptions about "well if i dont like it its bad if i do its good" which is the unyielding seeds of narcissistic dynamics... utterly immature.. shifting and maturing to "is this serving me?" and can lead to more meta analysis even... like thoughts of while you might "like" something is it REALLY "GOOD" for you? in a petty destructive way it might be fun to heckle or engage in gossip but what are my values and how/do these situations serve me? what is really going to grow my character? what kind of character do i want to grow to have?
Thank you, BUT the reality I’ve faced are people who are either narcissistic or have some type of role, in what I call the narcissistic system - who show many of these qualities, upfront. As is often the case, narcissists function in a way that makes this initial draw in, quite instinctual for them and even those who play other parts in the narcissistic system, are so accustomed to surviving, while accommodating it, as some type of scapegoat, that they continue to help it to function, quite well in fact, without acknowledging it exists. This is outside of the fact that, even once the topic of narcissism is well-learned, it can almost feel like you’re in a movie, that one can meet soooooo many people, with such toxic qualities, that you feel like you’re up against a tennis ball launcher. The mere fact, that you know anything about the topic, seems to cause you to feel as if you’re in Invasion of the Body Snatchers, because those who are narcissists and those who support them, even by being and remaining as victims, know that you are different.
I was adopted by 2 narc parents. Scapegoated (look at our black adopted child). Gangstalked and left for dead. It's been quite the emotional roller-coaster. Now, I'm forced to be homeless by government psychologists.
Be careful though: you are right to direct us to tune into our gut sense of others, but might you be underestimating the way narcissistically wounded individuals wage (“bedazzle”/charm ) others by pretending to be precisely everything that they sense others (I.e Us) most need them to be!! This is the stuff of love binging! The narc wounded person will fake each one of the points on your list - to lure in others - and this notoriously parades as true love or regard. We feel met, but these “features of safety” as you say - isn’t always genuine . I think a safer measure of dependability in others is the capacity to disagree vigorously -and still stay connected. Narcs (I prefer to speak of them as narcissistically wounded people) cant tolerate the kind of respectful disagreement on which genuine mature relationships ultimately depend! They have to control . They can’t tolerate vulnerability . So a good disagreement or three is the surest test of potential trustworthiness in a friend or partner. Thanks !
The only problem- safe people may seem soooo boring and sometimes frustrating after narcs who were exciting at the beginning saying what targets wanted to hear and doing what they wanted to see. Normal healthy people appear colourless and bland.
Last week, I met with three people.
The first, a man I'll call Derrick. Derrick had a kind word for everyone, was generous with his time and energy and shared vulnerable stories without hesitation. I left Derrick's company feeling uplifted and safe.
The second was a woman, Irene. Irene was a bit more self-focused, but she wanted to do good in her community. When I disagreed with her on something, she accepted with little resistance. I left her company feeling neutral. Spending time with her wasn't uplifting, but it wasn't a drag.
The last was my aunt, Tammy. Tammy is a spinster and with good reason. Almost everything she says is critical gossip, and she has no regard for the feelings of the person she's conversing with. When she says something positive about someone, it's because that person was cooperative with her... and it's usually followed up with something negative. "They're really skilled... but too soft." Many people are "too soft" in Tammy's eyes. She cackled with glee at a workplace story which I recognized as bullying.
I spent an hour with Tammy and I left feeling completely drained. Holes of self-doubt had been poked into me. I recognized myself in some of the people she was criticizing. Was I also "too soft"? Was I also "dirt beneath her feet"? Later, I snapped at my husband when he tried to help me with something. He called me out on it; it wasn't like me. It was the negativity of aunt Tammy sneaking into my spirit. I had to take more time to decompress from her toxic influence than I spent with her!
Anyway, this is an example of how someone can deplete you, and what that looks like in your life. Look for the Derricks in your life, and spend the majority of your time with them. Excise the Tammys -- they aren't worth the damage they'll do to your spirit or relationships.
Narcissistic parents make their kids feel that they caused the parents' behaviour and bring on their own abuse because of it . It takes years to ever recognize or feel worthy of better treatment .
Wise you are!
Yes & while they neglect you they fail to tangibly prove (via evidence, communication) to you how this is possible, so extremely damaging, yes.
yep
Scary n true!
And if you're damaged enough, you pick a partner just like the narcissistic parent so you get decades more of being told it's your fault. Funny how we're puppet masters that magically control the actions and words of others since it's not their fault, whatever they did....
"after eating crackers all of your life....being put in front of you your own personal chef!" - unbelievably adequate anology!!
I’m out there trying to find my tribe. I’m using the criteria you describe like people who are engaged, who exhibit self care, interest in me as a person, people who are curious about me and willing to let me be curious about them, people who are consistent. I especially pay attention to how I feel after I’ve spent time with a person. Do I feel relaxed and energized? Or do I feel drained and frustrated?
What I have found is this. Safe people for me do exist. I have found them. But there are many unsafe people for me out there. That’s why it’s so important to be discerning.
The amount of unhealthy and traumatized people out there is staggering.
So great "I’m out there trying to find my tribe. I’m using the criteria you describe like people who are engaged, who exhibit self care, interest in me as a person, people who are curious about me and willing to let me be curious about them, people who are consistent. I especially pay attention to how I feel after I’ve spent time with a person. Do I feel relaxed and energized? Or do I feel drained and frustrated?" The worst feeling in the world is when you think you have found the safe person you describe (I totally agree to look for the signs) & they turn into an abuser after a few months.You cannot blame yourself but defend yourself better. You are right there are so many unhealthy individuals.
But, the scary part is that narcissists can often be, in the beginning, very curious about your experiences etc. They can fake to be normal, wonderful and even empathetic so well.. That's the love-bombing phase. You have to know a person really well before you really know if they are safe or not. I think it's important to observe if they are genuine about their own experiences and it they really want to share them. If you get a feeling that they are hiding something or if they are inconsistent in their behavior - there probably is a problem.. If they get annoyed or moody (watch carefully, sometimes they try to hide it with a nervous fake smile etc.) if you ask certain questions and so on, there's a chance that you're dealing with a narcissist. It's also important to observe how they have lived their lives, how people behave around them, and how they behave in different situations and around different people. And you have to trust your gut. Don't downplay the warnings signals and ignore the red flags when you see them.
@@annehynynen8153 here’s how I see it. I’ve done 3 years of intense healing and growth. I know enough now to recognize the red flags, and there are always red flags. I’m not afraid of narcissistic people any longer. I do still get triggered from time to time. What’s really helpful for me is to have secure, healthy relationships. Now that I have some of those I can use them as a benchmark for comparison when I meet a new person. So now when I meet someone toxic, they look REALLY toxic as compared to my healthy relationships. Works well for me.
I found out that I confused energised state with running on adrenaline/cortisol because all social interactions were extremely stressful for me after abuse. I was so used to constant stressed out C-PTSD state in social interactions, that I couldn't point out - how it feels to be safe and relaxed and energised in good sense.
I was either numb and dissociating, or running on stress hormones.
TY , I think you’re absolutely right!
I've gotten so good at dissecting people's personality traits that I will probably never have another intimate relationship. It's amazing how obvious it all is once you know about it. Or maybe, now that I am not just trying to make everyone like me, I can step back and see reality. And reality is pretty .... interesting :)
I can totally relate. I can be happy with just me and my dog until I die.
What a great comment.
Yep!
It seems to be very common for nfamily kids (not limited to just scapegoats) to say no to relationships and marriage.
I can completely relate to what you said about next longer being in a phase in life where you're trying to make everyone like you. I used to persue relationships just because I thought there was a societal expectation for me to be in one. As I recovered from narcissistic abuse and learner to set boundaries I became more vigilant of people and their nature. Sure, love exists, but as a scapegoated child I probably statistically won't find it.
It is extremely important to find safe people after being narcisistically abused. It is the love and acceptance that is curative. Thank you for sharing your experiences.
As a scapegoat! I stay alone for the most part. Can’t trust people ❤
I was so busy trying to connect with people and make them like me that I didn't pay attention to red flags in the relationship and actually gravitated to women friends that reminded me of my Narcissistic mother in an attempt to get their approval. I'm now in my 70's and just beginning to understand the reality of being a scapegoated child of Narcissistic parents. I'm so grateful for Jay providing these insightful and detailed videos and the brave and honest community.
Narcissist feign empathy to get you to divulge your vulnerabilities and then use them against you later, by gossiping about your and throwing them back in your face. They may tell you a few things and if you have integrity you won't divulge their secrets. They aren't loyal. You find out later that they are unsafe.
"Narcissistic abuse is often at the hands of parents and or spouse, children and other relationships including those at work.
This video is so helpful. I would no-contact a narc or not cooperate and be discarded by one narc after another. And their supporters. I would think, no way. I would sometimes flush a whole group! Then a new jerk would just replace them, repeat cycle. I learned to carefully qualify friends. I enjoy just about everyone, but friends have to be a much higher level person. They are there - rare and wonderful.
Dr Reid,
1 I would also suggest we add:
Is dependable and reliable.
2 Their actions match their words.
3 There's an equal give and take exchange.
4. Their character or identity is constant in multiple types of social situations.
I still attract narcissistic people but it fades instantly because I'm done with them - now I prepare myself to attract only safe people, just need a little bit time to recognise them so this video really made sense to me, perfect timing🤗
me TOO
Yes, you become better at protecting yourself, the ultimate form of self care. Also, you are more trusting of your own judgement
@@peaceangel-rl2hf so true 👍
Same
The safest person is your Higher Self.. the brave you who weathered the Storm.. I think once u identify the Agenda of a toxic Family Dynamic.. all u have to do is to stop Identifying with the Agenda.. it's a conscious process.. but your saving Grace is only n ultimately the knowledge that you can't n don't have to play a Proverbial Role.. anymore
🙏🙏
That book by Dr.Cloud was instrumental in me finding safe people after being raised by narcissistic parents and being with a narcissistic partner for 12 years. It was SO helpful!
Thank you for your moving comment about the book by Dr Cloud. I have a feeling that reading it will be an important next step for my recovery from a recent heartbreak as well as growing up in a narcissistic family system.
This was how I felt when I joined the army at 18, way back in 1977. Basic training, Americans call it boot camp, was tough, but the NCO instructors were generally good guys and I made a lot of friends in the first few months. My biggest fear was being singled out, it just never happened. It changed me forever and in a good way. I also discovered I was mentally tougher than I realised. I was still young enough to be influenced by the older NCO's . Family back home never really understood that I had changed and being so far from home I just got on with my life.
Happy for you David! I kick myself constantly for not going into service, I wanted to be a pilot and go into the Airforce. I had a crazy uncle that was in the Army and told me a lot of negative BS about it, and I had been very physically abused until an older age so I was afraid I couldn't handle Boot Camp after watching some movies about it being really brutal. Now I'm the crazy uncle, of nieces and nephews I have no contact with anymore, was forced to go no contact 10 yrs ago. Wish I had a frickin time machine, glad you made the good decision that worked out for ya. Stay strong friend.
For some people the military was the first, and possibly only, real family they ever had.
@@lauriedmills7581 Yes, I never considered myself worse off than the other soldiers I joined with, many were from broken homes, usually with a stepfather problem, some even came from orphanages. One guy was an ex Jehova Witness, he joined with just the clothes on his back.
@@DavidFraser007 David, If you are from the U.K., like myself, have you read any books from SAS's Ant Middleton ,Colin Machlachlan, Jason Fox ? I think the reason some of them went into the SAS in the first place was because of abusive home lifes.
@@clairejohnson6522 It's actually true that many of the mates I had came from broken homes, it wasn't always abusive, sometimes just estrangement. Our NCOs knew this, they used to joke that we wouldn't get homesick. I was never in any of the special forces, but we still relied and trusted each other more than our families.
My dogs have helped me in profound way to understand what love and connection feel like. There are so many examples of this. It's not jus about dog's devotion to us either. Their openness and vulnerability make them so easy to love without fear. I am only completely relaxed and being able to be myself when I am alone with them.
Jay, I think you're better than any other on the subject of narcissism in the TH-cam sphere. With a clearer understanding of their subconscious motivation it has truly made it easier to endure. When you don't know why they're doing what they're doing the confusion is maddening. That narcissists project their own feelings of worthlessness onto others is a key component of abuse that victims can make use of for survival and its something a few others only touch on briefly.
Dr.Reid, i want to thank you for all of the wonderful insights you have provided me with over the last six months I have watched your channel. You have truly blessed my life in ways you can not imagine, and I am profoundly grateful for your genuine humanity and thoughtfulness. I am so glad i happened upon your channel by accident, or not so accidentally when I really needed your help processing my experiences. You Sir are really, really, really good.
+1
Thank you Jay! This video is good timing for me right now. I found your channel about a week ago and it felt like you have been reading my journal from the last few months. You have addressed so many things I have learned about myself and my past relationships with narcissists. One big one was that my inner voice has been taken over by the narcissists in my life and I've had no room for my own feelings, beliefs and ideas.
I am now starting over from scratch after letting go of my only close friend. The thing is that in the beginning this friend seemed to exhibit many of the safe qualities you described. I have had many narcissists show interest in me in the beginning. They get me to open up and later use it against me.
I have found the safe people in my life not to expect to know everything about me in the beginning. They show interest without bombarding me with a bunch of personal questions. They don't lavish me with unnecessary praise and don't expect me to do the same to them. They allow me to disagree with them without using it as a character flaw in me.
I am just too easy going in the beginning and try so hard accepting the other person once relationships became toxic. I think a a good determinant of a safe relationship is also when you can be authentic from the very beginning and I am still accepted.
I am working on breaking the habit of censoring myself and my opinions and going into a false self people please mode. I’ve had relationships that lasted for years where I finally woke up and thought, gosh I don’t even like this person, why am I such ‘close’ friends? That is not a quality I want in myself because that is an unsafe characteristic too.
So, I have to be completely honest and hyper aware of when my gut says it doesn’t like something and then speak up about it within a few hours. If I am received well, then I continue with the relationship. If not then it just might not be a good fit and I don’t need to waste several years to find this out.
I was so frightened of abandonment I really held on to toxic friendships until I reached a threshold. Then I’d be gone, because I had no idea how to say that basically everything about the person upset me. I don’t accept that behavior in myself anymore. It’s not being true to me or being true to others.
It’s a process and I’m learning that it does matter that I speak out if someone angers me or upsets me. It matters to me, so I don’t accept poor behavior from others and then find myself months or years later having to exit a friendship because I’ve amassed a ton of resentments, that I’ve turned into an angry person and can barely speak.
I can practice speaking up. It sucks because the abuse kicks in and says; what a witch, what a terrible person I am, etc. when it’s a totally legit concern.
I got angry the other day because a car drove way too close and fast by me as I was walking, I put my hand up to say ‘what the hell?? Slow down’ and it for real took me a couple days to validate to myself that it was normal to feel upset and to react that way to a speeding car coming at me and that I wasn’t over reacting.
Slowly but surely I will gain more confidence every day and not second guess myself. Practice makes progress 💪
Thanks for this video. 🙏
Your comments have so much depth.
Bought that book last month.I searched a lot to find books on the subject - it's amazing how few books are written on this topic!
Thank you! This is a good guideline. Helpful. Wish I could have learned this when I was a child!
I'm currently at the place where I believe I've recognized to be unsafe people in my life, spoiler alert, it was pretty much everyone. I'm not the type of person that can go my whole life without having another friends or human interaction so this is really important to me, having healthy boundaries and recognizing people that are good for me. A lot of the people that turned out to be unsafe for me really seems like they were safe people at the beginning, it was so nice to be around then but I ignored some warning signs because I used to Gaslight myself
It's very hard to find safe people to trust opening up to who can relate to your pain and make you feel like you can share what you are feeling and going through.
Jehovah God has been my only safe haven and protector and true friend !! I thank him tremendously !!!
Was just thinking about him myself and his son Jesus Christ our savior!!
Your content does really help me to deal with my Cover Narcissist parents and family.
I've never felt so seen as I do via these videos and all of the people who comment here ❤
@@chasityray9055 We all come from the same place.
We should be there for each other. Because no one can understand these complex things like us. :)
Exactly! Jay is the only person who does not only provide a super valuable content, but also provides deep comfort, sense of safety and validation.
His inner peace radiating through the videos is unbelievable. I can hardly imagine that people can be so peaceful, so calm and so compassionate.
Jay, What an amazing gift you are giving with this. Thank you.
Thank you, Jay! I feel greatly helped by all your videos. This heartwarming one is just what I need at this time as I strive to move forward after ending a heartbreaking relationship with narcissist leader of a spirituality group I was deeply a part of for many years. I had to leave the group, which was dear to me, in order to escape the socially powerful leader and her verbal abuse.
Jay, I'm new to your channel and this is exactly what I'm going through. The problem is, I'm realizing that there are a lot of narcs out there, more than I imagined. You really have to observe pattern behaviour and most importantly, how people make YOU FEEL and not what they say. Yes, I agree it is the "absence of connectedness." I am being very selective with whom I continue a relationship with b/c of this reason. If I'm alone, that's okay, at least I'm connecting with myself and not in an unsafe relationship. Thank you for validating me Jay with this video.
Safe people don’t lie to you. EVER!
To add: especially with how they see you, and where you stand with them. Playing the guessing game is unfun.
Please go on with your videos, Jay! I feel you reach deeper layers, a deeper level than other (often also good) TH-cam channels about this topic. Thank you!
Great guy, great content :-) thank you
Agreed +1 :)*
This man really understands & explains this type of psychological & emotional abuse probably more thoroughly than most. i am so grateful for his observations & information he shares here & in the written material on his website.
My mother sent me away to boarding schools. she said I had ruined her life. She told my dad she would leave him if he didn’t get rid of me. This topic is really helpful to me as I seem to have difficulty finding safe people. I seem to either run into those who adore me & think I’m wonderful or those who want to prey upon me & harm me.. Feast or famine, mostly famine.
Such a helpful video! Thank you!
Very helpful list - offers me clarity, validation for some of my subtle discomforts with some relationships I have been easing away from. Just trying on the list is healing and gives me hope that I can find and enjoy more safe people. Thank you
As a young adult, I quickly dropped any men who even slightly reminded me of my father - complaining, critical, quick to anger, stingy, etc.
I found a man who used to not just tolerate, not just accept, but he actually appreciated me and treated me like a queen.
This went on mostly for a few decades, until he fell, lost consciousness and had a huge bump on his head and slept for days.
I think that head trauma caused his mood swings and walking on eggshells and making me feel like I can’t do anything right by him, whereas before, I couldn’t do wrong by him.
He’s not a narcissist, but I think this personality change has made him more controlling. So now that my father has been dead, I have my Mr. Hyde to replace him, but as a male companion.
We get along most of the time.
If I ever find anyone else for opposite sex companionship or for same sex friendship, I shall settle for nothing less than having the ground I walk on worshipped.
I adimire you Jay
I agree 👍
I was stiffed in every way possible. Had to learn everything once I left and ventured into young adulthood. My paternal grandparents were awesome and their love started me on my way.
I like the saltine analogy! Also, if you're used to only saltines, even saltunes and slightly moldy cheese might feel like more than you deserve.
I'm gonna have to play this hundreds of times to check that I as well as the other person resemble these traits when forming new friendships. Thanks for the guidance
Thank you again, Jay. It's been challenging but very rewarding learning about negotiation, trust and character etc. The hardest part for me has been learning to trust myself. "Am I still deceivable and coercible?" is an important question to ask and to ensure the answer is, "No, I am not," and be able to explain why. Cloud & Townsend's work have helped many people - it's great stuff. One thing I noticed that helps me is when a narc person tries to apply boundaries - they can't do it - it ends up being control dressed up as choice, punishment being dressed up as consequences and for those used to "smelling such rats" they're helpful warning signs.
Helpful information! The list is great but I also feel a little sad about it because it seems like I don't run across those attributes often. I guess it will just take time and patience to find more safe people.
This American Gentlemen is wonderful.Full of knowledge he is sharing with us people unfortunate enough to have come across these sick,twisted individuals.What a likeable man,also.🌻
OMG so awesome! I am now making a "safe list"! I am also learning to trust a therapist! I finally sat and explained why I said , "I HATE OTHER WOMEN!" to my therapist WHICH made her think I was BPD! I explained my two Cathy's in my life. She asked if I had ANYONE nice to converse with and I said, 'A few I call them the "good mom's" and they are BUSY being Good Mom's!'
Thank you for such a great video and such a helpful and important topic. Wish more counsellors etc had your skillset about narcissistic abuse.
Thank you. With all the deceivenes prevalent on narcissists, it is hard to discern. This video helps more than you think.
I know there are certain people that I can say anything to, we relate well and are so comfortable when we see each other, I love being around people like that. They can say the truth, I can too, and that is not a problem. I have several friends that I have that relationship with... And then again...there are people who are prickly. I am very uncomfortable around them. You can tell they are fake and have ulterior motives. They just stand out, and I can see their micro-expressions of contempt which probably only last a split second, but to me it looks like they hold that contemptuous expression on their face for 2 or 3 seconds, and is very clear who they really are. They don't think I see the real them, but I certainly do. And for that reason, I mostly stay away from snarky prickly people. I am not being snobbish, I am protecting myself. Even Jesus said to brush the dust off your feet and move on if someone doesn't want you around. I gladly do that. I don't want to be around them, any more than they want to be around me.
Host nailed it,again. The reciprocity thing...and recognition of who is safe. Settling has been a way of life.
Love Cloud and Townsend. I do not know if New Life Live is still broadcasted,but that was my intro to theses guys. Often they co-host.
So true. If I wasn’t an abstract painter I would have been stuck forever.
Wow you’ve really hit the nail on the head with this video !
Many thanks for your differentiated and helpful list!
Emotional availability (in the sense of emotional touchability),
the ability to also adapt to the needs of others (my needs)
Willingness to seek and offer compromises ("we")
Gentleness
a pattern of "both and" in words and deeds, I would add.
Great inspiring and highly informative video Dr. Reid. Thank you for sharing it!
It is very hard. Often even therapusts aren't safe. You trust them and make yourself vulnerabld, then they hurt you even more.
Excellent - thanks, Jay!
A few years ago, I began putting together detailed lists like this, mostly in regards to a mate. It has been useful exercise, I've found. Still haven't met a guy who fits the bill, but just HAVING criteria saves a lot of time and energy. I've just recently been thinking of this more in terms of friendship, as well--what qualities do I want in a friend--and one of the phrases I've picked up on another channel is one of the primary characteristics: psyche-minded. Less about where one is on the journey of healing and self-awareness than about being on the journey at all!
I greatly appreciate this content. There are so many videos out there describing narcs and the damage they leave in their wake; but once survivors have gotten a clear picture of all that, we limit our progress if we stew in it. It’s very helpful to learn how to REBUILD. Self-worth (or a sense of self at all), desire to care for oneself, learning to set healthy boundaries, finding safe people, building healthy relationships, etc. Thank you!
Super helpful. Thanks!
Thank you. I wish this was taught to me as a young person. It’s always a pleasure to watch your videos.
It's so hard trying to work this out after literal decades lost
Thank you so much for this! Looking at it like this and having a list to work off of really helps. In the past I think I've rushed into friendships and relationships...now going forward I am going to take things much slower and pay attention to how I feel, really feel after interacting with people. It is such a work in progress. So glad to have your videos. I am learning so much. Thanks again!
This was so helpful. You said exactly what I needed to hear. I’ve been struggling with accepting the decision to go no contact with some people and it was because I didn’t feel safe with them. The list you detailed put that to rest. Thank you so much!!
I can't believe I've never heard of this book until now. I also liked the book How to Avoid Marrying a Jerk by John Van Epp which also helpfully outlines evaluating someone's character
and the reason genuine loving connection- 'the more connected to yourself you are the more you can connect with them' is because that healthy person WANTS to know you and is curious and interested in you. narcissistic people dont care about who you are and are completely UNINTERESTED/ UNABLE to connect with YOU and the real you. they operate from their "false self" and they require the people around them to validate and prop it up to keep the charade going. so naturally that requires lying to kowtow to that agenda because the premise of that situation is FAKE to begin with. the false self is a lie and lies are required to "fluff" it. truth tellers and scapegoats are razed for their "seeing through the matrix" of these dynamics
I love you so much. I wish you were my Dad 🥺
Wow.. my best friend ticks all those qualities...
It's my first experience of a safe relationship and it's amazing how safe people are safe flawlessly.😅
Yes 🙌 generosity of spirit is so easy for people who have great feeling for others…(I guess many have gone numb for their feelings for others and can only feel for themselves- and that includes in relationships with other lost people of similar perspective, not just their feeling-for-others targets/victims). So unfortunately, what people with these lost perceptions want is complete martyrdom to their unhealthy needs and requirements for “connection.” A complete sacrifice on one’s life! And if they can couch all that as a necessity to be a GOOD PERSON on that sacrifice? Well, to a person who being a good person is important too, the mind-bending manipulations ensue! 🌼 I’m flowering inside in the abandoned lands within! Thank you Jay & thank you God for Jay!
My family was poor/lower middle class but I spent a lot of time with people of wealth and privilege. They have these same issues~it just manifests in different ways… same with these abuses that are coupled with religion or atheism-it can all be used in the same way. Many people in these lost perspectives don’t have friends in the real sense--only allies for their own self-centered purposes. What I love about your work, is that you don’t demonize them-just highlight understanding their lost mentality and terrible effects they have on lives. And they are so sadly miserable… but martyrdom for misery is not the way to heal anything… it only grows rhe misgotten power of lost perspectives on the planet. Growth mentality & growth spirituality! even though this is using the tools of psychology, you are using them in Love with a capital L, and so the movements and growth inside is very spiritual 💗🌤️🌼 what you do with psychology is full of love. A master craftsman of loving and true psychology-from deep wisdom.
In my family It was all about sacrifice note generosity...guilt not happiness
thank you so much for making these videos, it's honestly so embarrasing not knowing how to navigate relationships when all you've known is abuse...slowly coming out of my shell to safe others
Wow. This was exactly the resource I needed to figure this out. Took notes! Good work. I'd love to see more on this topic. When you grow up this way, it is so hard to identify safe people.
Very good reminder video. It's like reverse narcissism video, where you remind yourself what to look for instead of what to watchout for :)
Thank you for making this video for us. I've been learning a lot from your videos and I look forward to when you post a new one
That first point and title card is 1000% my experience in dating. It's been excruciating over the years how much I've not done what I want for fear of having someone leave me. Or, I sometimes I will rebel and swing wildly in the reverse and end up hurting someone I care for, because I feel I have to defiantly choose myself. Or, sometimes it's just been really hard to determine what is helpful and what is the trigger from the past and so I choose blindly and extreme in either case. I feel I'm getting a lot better, but I still really hadn't realized how much this fear in relationships was related to my dad and his behavior. It's daunting but so liberating to see. Thank you!
This is a REAL challenge...but it is STILL hard to find sane much less safe people these days...
This information is good for helping one to understand and express themselves when it comes to this topic.
Thank you! This is really good! I wish that this was taught me when I was young.
Was just searching your channel for exactly this guidance thank you 🙌
Excellent, just what I needed to hear : D
Caring about oneself is definitely a good point, but I don't want to exclude people who have problems with executive functioning (depression, C-PTSD, on the spectrum, etc) - they can be far more safe and trustworthy than regular people taking care of themselves.
And people who have their own goals and interests can be very self-absorbed and toxic. They are safe only in the way that they won't chase you and try to punish for going no contact.
I appreciate your work and in no way try to minimize this useful template, just don't trust people anymore, after such amount of toxicity and destruction.
Jay I love your work thank you so so much!!
Narcissistic abuse is not an event in my life, it is my life. I was born into a narcissistic family, married it and now my adult children display narcissistic traits.
Safe people? I haven’t found them-true unicorns!
Very valuable information Jay.its something that I ponder these days... appreciated 🙏
i also like this framing in the "SAFE" context because it shifts our black and white assumptions about "well if i dont like it its bad if i do its good" which is the unyielding seeds of narcissistic dynamics... utterly immature.. shifting and maturing to "is this serving me?" and can lead to more meta analysis even... like thoughts of while you might "like" something is it REALLY "GOOD" for you? in a petty destructive way it might be fun to heckle or engage in gossip but what are my values and how/do these situations serve me? what is really going to grow my character? what kind of character do i want to grow to have?
Thank you! So helpful!
Yes, very useful, I'm grateful, thank you.
Thank you, BUT the reality I’ve faced are people who are either narcissistic or have some type of role, in what I call the narcissistic system - who show many of these qualities, upfront. As is often the case, narcissists function in a way that makes this initial draw in, quite instinctual for them and even those who play other parts in the narcissistic system, are so accustomed to surviving, while accommodating it, as some type of scapegoat, that they continue to help it to function, quite well in fact, without acknowledging it exists.
This is outside of the fact that, even once the topic of narcissism is well-learned, it can almost feel like you’re in a movie, that one can meet soooooo many people, with such toxic qualities, that you feel like you’re up against a tennis ball launcher.
The mere fact, that you know anything about the topic, seems to cause you to feel as if you’re in Invasion of the Body Snatchers, because those who are narcissists and those who support them, even by being and remaining as victims, know that you are different.
Bless you so MUCH
This is very helpful 🎈
Thank you,love all your videos .
Very very useful , thank you !
So helpful i keep rewatching this video anytime a new person comes into my life m thank you so much!!
Thanks doc
So helpful ❤ Thank you
I was adopted by 2 narc parents. Scapegoated (look at our black adopted child). Gangstalked and left for dead. It's been quite the emotional roller-coaster. Now, I'm forced to be homeless by government psychologists.
How could a psychologist or anyone at all 5:36 force you to be homeless? It's you who is in charge of working and paying rent.
Love these videos and his blogs.
Go Eagles...
Go sixers
Setting healthy boundaries are important part to be safe around Narcissistic men and women Narcs.
Very helpful suggestions!
Thankyou SO much!
I've been told I'M RUINED. Are there safe people? I wish.
Be careful though: you are right to direct us to tune into our gut sense of others, but might you be underestimating the way narcissistically wounded individuals wage (“bedazzle”/charm ) others by pretending to be precisely everything that they sense others (I.e Us) most need them to be!! This is the stuff of love binging! The narc wounded person will fake each one of the points on your list - to lure in others - and this notoriously parades as true love or regard. We feel met, but these “features of safety” as you say - isn’t always genuine .
I think a safer measure of dependability in others is the capacity to disagree vigorously -and still stay connected.
Narcs (I prefer to speak of them as narcissistically wounded people) cant tolerate the kind of respectful disagreement on which genuine mature relationships ultimately depend! They have to control . They can’t tolerate vulnerability .
So a good disagreement or three is the surest test of potential trustworthiness in a friend or partner.
Thanks !
The only problem- safe people may seem soooo boring and sometimes frustrating after narcs who were exciting at the beginning saying what targets wanted to hear and doing what they wanted to see. Normal healthy people appear colourless and bland.