Tesla Model 3 LFP Charging Comparison Using CCS Magic Dock / Combo 1 Adapter vs NACS Tesla Connector
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ต.ค. 2024
- In this video, I compare two charging sessions. The first session was from 5% to 25% using the standard NACS Tesla connector on a V3 Supercharger. Then I drove the car down to 5% and charged the car back up to 25% using the NACS Tesla Connector plugged into a Magic Dock CCS adapter which was then plugged into my CCS Combo One Adapter which then plugged into the car. I did this test as I was curious to see if Tesla was somehow limiting the charging speed to a non-Tesla CCS car. Watch this video filmed on 3/5/23 in Brewster NY at the Tesla Magic Dock Upgraded Superchargers to see what I discover!
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#Tesla #model3 #ccs #supercharger
It would be counterproductive for Tesla to handicap the CCS charge rate. They want them charged up and moving on as fast as possible to free up that charger for the next car.
I certainly agree, but they also have to live within the hardware limitations and spec limitations they're constrained under, so it is interesting.
VW will be last -here’s why. Re: CCS Repudiation. Any computer programmer can reverse engineer CCS back to its original requirements specs & conclude it was “born brain dead” to be the exact opposite of what would become known as NACS, just to cynically spite Diesel Gate sanctions & intentionally deter EV adoption. VW’s greatest “success”! The chickens are coming home to VW’s roost. Not yet mentioned is whether non-NACS cars will have the “totally Tesla” seamless charging experience, including Navigation-embedded availability & pricing, plus automatic billing, along with 99% uptimes. Regardless, each use will expose previous CCS users to NACS’ diametrically opposed superiority, making them rue the day they were hoodwinked into buying into the CCS-sphere.
The amount of work and time you put into your videos is not an easy task. Thank you for your videos!!
VW will be last -here’s why. Re: CCS Repudiation. Any computer programmer can reverse engineer CCS back to its original requirements specs & conclude it was “born brain dead” to be the exact opposite of what would become known as NACS, just to cynically spite Diesel Gate sanctions & intentionally deter EV adoption. VW’s greatest “success”! The chickens are coming home to VW’s roost. Not yet mentioned is whether non-NACS cars will have the “totally Tesla” seamless charging experience, including Navigation-embedded availability & pricing, plus automatic billing, along with 99% uptimes. Regardless, each use will expose previous CCS users to NACS’ diametrically opposed superiority, making them rue the day they were hoodwinked into buying into the CCS-sphere.
One of the reasons charging might be slower is that you have only one motor to warm up the battery (since heating of the battery is done by running the motor in an inefficient mode and sending that heat to the battery).
Great Video Dave, the warming on the FLP maybe different in heating / cooling due to the packaging, I believe the Tesla uses Prismatic LFP packs which is physically different than the cylindrical 2170 batteries with the ribbon cooling / heating channels.
One thing to keep in mind is that the RWD Model 3 has only one motor and therefore has only half the power to heat the battery. Tesla uses the motor to generate heat, instead of a separate battery heater. Each motor generates 3.5 kW of heat, IIRC.
Put yourself in the charger nerd category if you enjoyed this video. I did.
Dave, thanks for the interesting video.
Great videos Dave, enjoy a coffee on me
Wow! Thx!!!
Awesome Dave! You may be the first to record north of 155 kW using the magic docks! And you were the first to use the magic dock on the GV60! Appreciate you! Start a patreon!
Dave's car in robot voice, Dave wtf are you doing, I'm a Tesla 😂
Dave, since you’ve been to the site a few times to the employees at the local Dunkin’ Donuts know you by first name
5% to 25% in 5 minutes. Pretty good considering it has a lower max charge power than other Teslas!
You’re not going to see a speed difference. The other difference between CCS and Tesla besides connector, is software. They speak a different language in layman’s terms. That’s why older Tesla cars required a hardware change which added an ECU to translate between the two (like the one I added to mine). While your physical connector may have changed over to a CCS, I doubt that the software protocol changed from the default Tesla language. Nice to see that the adapter(s) doesn’t slow down the charge rate. This might be useful for those that tow. Been waiting for supercharger extensions to become available again, may switch to a CCS1 since it will be more flexible.
Thanks for the video. Great video as always, please keep it going.
Now that is what it is like to have Disposable Income..love the videos..gonna make the N.Y. to Cape Coral trip soon using your recommendations for supercharger spots...2022 Model S. Keep uo the great work!
Great video Dave, I've been loving the series on charging in upstate NY at the opened up chargers. I haven't made it to one yet, but happened to be at the Malta station days before they opened it up. I have a 2022 Model Y LR but not the CCS adapter and have been wanting to test it out. If you'll be around the area (Brewster or Red Hook) over the next few days and want to test out charging on a non-LFP pack Model Y, let me know and I'll see if I can meet you.
10:25 brakes applied at high SOC to mimic regen is a feature that is in the software currently for our 2018 Model Long Range RWD. So maybe they just upgraded all cars to that spec. When they did that I have no idea because we’ve only had that car for about 3 weeks or so.
The Magic Dock CCS adapter seems to be rated at 350kw and I think that Tesla is considering that to be a hard limit, unlike their in-house cable/connector specs that they violate - Tesla did their cables and software right - they monitor the temperature and just let it rip at "any" current so long as temperatures are within safety margins.
The CCS standard definitely allows for 500A on liquid cooled cables or on chargers/cables that support a "boost" period.
Dave, I respectfully disagree with your conclusion about Tesla limiting the rate. Your car charged close to 500A (170 kW) with the Magic Dock adapter (the same as without), but on non-Teslas they limit the current to 350A (which would be about 120 kW on your car). Therefore Tesla allows a higher amperage to flow through the Magic Dock when charging a Tesla than a non-Tesla, which is interesting.
Should’ve come to Shirley on Long Island!
Another awesome video Dave! Thanks for your testing and great content. Your perspective is very needed in the EV realm.
CCS is good for at least 500 amps. Many 400 V cars can pull 200 kW.
Great video Dave. My new Y has the 2170 batteries, not LFP and not 4680’s as I thought as my Tesla delivery person told me. So I will expect higher KWh charging and not take it to 100% state of charge unless I am on a trip.
Not sure if you noticed Dave, but they removed the red sign posts between the chargers since your last visit. This is so non-Tesla vehicles like the F150 can pull up further with their bumper past the curb in order for the cable to reach better. Rumor has it that Elon ordered their removal after seeing Tom have difficultly charging his F150.
NACS charging standard designed by engineers to encourage EV adoption.
CCS charging standard designed by the ICE manufactures marketing department to discourage EV adoption, trying to keep EV’s from catching on.
Nice video, Dave. Here's an idea for your next video: since you live so close to New York, which has a total of 8 Tesla supercharger locations with magic docks, why don't you, or your wife, or both of you, take a trip throughout upstate NY testing each of those locations using your wife's GV60. On you way out you can charge on only superchargers with magic docks, and on your way back, use only CCS to compare which takes you the least amount of time. You would get a ton of views. Maybe your highest viewed video ever as you will be the first one doing this.
500 amps is a MONSTROUS amount of current! It should not even be possible to get that amount through those small connector-pins without everything exploding in a ball of flame! Yet it somehow juuuust works! To expect "more" is stupid! My Tesla "wish-list" include the ability to reduce speed on superchargers; I personally think over 100KW is waaay to fast, and on the very edge of what is healthy, or even possible, for the battery to assimilate. I'd like to charge on 50KW, no more, if it was possible.
Has anyone tried the Polestar 2 on the Magic Dock?
I think this would be best tested using a Long Range Tesla. As you know, long range Tesla EVs can charge @ a peak of 250 kW.
Makes no sense for Tesla to artificially slow down non Tesla charging, they just end up being there longer taking up space.
Dave: did you compare the time to charge from 5% to 25% using the standard NACS connector vs. using the CCS combo one adapter? Were they identical?
Tesla employee: Hey Elon should we allow Teslas to use the magic dock? / Elon: Haha yeah, you know some youtuber is gonna try it out of curiosity!
The main reason (without getting super technical) as to why Tesla V3 charge slower on 800V EVs is due to Tesla's current superchargers being 400V architeture, whereas EA's and some other high speed chargers are 800V architecture, meaning they don't need to supply super high amperage to supercharge your EV. They do it with high voltage instead and low amps, meaning you get 1/4 less losses and 1/4 less heat (P=I²R -- high heat degrades the batteries faster, hence Tesla limiting it to a very short time), and therefore 800V architecture EVs are not designed to accept very high amperage as they don't need to. Now, Tesla's next generation V4 superchargers will be 800V architecture, which are currently being installed in Europe first. Can't wait till they get here.
you'd want to do that if your Supercharging is turned off on your car
When will you test FSD Beta V11? Hoping it will perform better than your last beta run…
How many cars get charged not how long they charge is what should be the objective in charging infrastructure. No need to slow a non Tesla car. They'll be holding the space longer than they need to. Affecting the charging of all cars
Tesla 3 rear wheel is limited to 170kWh. The V1 and V2 superchargers are limited to 150kWh. The V3 chargers go to 250kWh. That says these with the ' Magic Dock ' are of the V3 kind.
pleaseeee kW = Power | kWh = Energy
Use kW for charging speed, power of the motor, etc. and kWh for Battery “size”, amount of energy charged, etc.
If you charge for 1 hour at 100kW you put 100kWh into your battery
Perhaps the supercharger can't read the thermal condition of non Tesla cars so it won't send full energy into it.
Hey Dave. What do you think would be the time difference road tripping a Model 3 LFP vs Model 3 Long Range?
ABRP or betterrouteplanner is a great tool to forecast those kinds of what if scenarios for a given trip with a given car.
How many miles did you drive so far and are you still getting 272 miles on a full charge.
Dave. Do I have to pre-condition the batteries every time before charging? Is this a normal process to do before you charge the batteries? Thanks.
Is phantom braking something you have to put your foot on the gas or it will stop completely?
Can you create a video charging CCS at a non-Tesla station, e.g. electrify america? I'm curious how it performs so I can decide whether to buy an adapter or not for the 23 model 3.
if the station is working, it works as expected.....
@@laloajuria4678 meaning that it will have the same charge curve as on V3 superchargers? Have you observed this or is this assumed?
@@Lalibs the curve is dictated by the car. if it receives everything it requests, there is no difference.
They are not playing "fair". You have to pay more for charging.
Don’t do this! They are intentionally derating the current to 350A for the ccs adapter and may be using the vehicle to determine to enable the derating, and you might be fooling it by using two adapters, which is even worse than using a single adapter. In the best case one or both adapters will cause a temperature derate, in worse case there is damage or burns that are possible when handling the adaptors
Would've stopped charging @ 10 % and switched.
I was thinking the same thing. Charge until it comes down from its peak which should take less than 2 minutes and then switch. Then you can redo the test again starting at 5% starting with the last connector used and switching to the other one once the charger starts to come down from its peak output.
This way we know for sure that the battery condition was the same for both tests.
I wonder if, even though you’re using the adapters, the charger still knows that it’s plugged into a Tesla.
I was interested in your observation that your new battery type requires good heating before charging efficiently. Since most people are going to be using a Supercharger on road trips they should always use Tesla navigation to get there. Navigation preconditions the battery, but just driving to the Supercharger without navigation will not necessarily bring the battery to optimal conditions. Am I correct on that?
You are correct. When a Tesla is using it's navigation system and is navigating to a Supercharger, it pre-conditions de battery for optimal charging. It won't do that unless it's navigating to a Supercharger.
TFTC
May I ask, Did you check your charging on the the screen to make sure you weren't also charged there also
Dave do you get an option when ordering a Model 3 on the LFP or a standard battery? Seems kinda important with the charging speed differences you've shown from 250kwh to 170kwh. Im in a 2015 P85D so I max out at 128kwh and that's only at that rate for a few seconds.
The M3 RWD has a ~60 kwh battery vs ~80 Kwh in the M3 LR, therefore the C rate isn't that different and if we adjust the charging rate to account for battery capacity it would be 250 vs 227 kwh.
Newer standard range is all LFP. The only way to get new non lfp is to buy dual motor or performance
@@dmunro9076 The thing which wonders me the most is that many studies show that LFP can easiyl take 4C or 5C charging for a short amount of time. Generally the LFP could charge faster than the NMC battery without degrading more. But I guess that would be dumb from Tesla as the selling point of the LR would be mostly gone. Even now the LR is only 45min faster on 1000km which is basically nothing.
Let’s not forget the LFP changes faster, although the charging speed rating is lower. The LFP uses the max charging rate for longer. This means from 5%-80% for example the LFP will win every time.
Not sure if your test is accurate. The Tesla dispenser still probably recognized your Tesla car even with the CCS adapter. You need to test your wife's car and your Tesla at the same time.
my thoughts exactly. I think the supercharger knew it was still a Tesla. maybe the Genesis can offer more data. Or try the same in a 350Kw EA station
Remember that a RWD Tesla will take twice as long to precondition the pack as an AWD Tesla. There is only one motor creating waste heat.
The car’s onboard charger decides what speed it will be charging at, the charging station doesn’t have a say.
Agree
There is no onboard charger in supercharging
@@rudyyyxu true but the car still negotiates the rate it lets energy flow into the battery to protect it from damage.
The car requests the "speed" from the charging station, which normally tries to comply but it have its own limits.