Solar stories - #2 - SolarEdge 4 kW inverter, 10 kWh battery
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 มิ.ย. 2024
- Welcome to episode 2 of Solar Stories where I interview other folks who have solar panels and battery storage to hear about their experiences of living with their systems. Today we have Michael from Leicester who has the following system:
- 4 kWp of solar panels with SolarEdge optimisers in a SW facing array
- SolarEdge 10 kWh battery
- 4 kW SolarEdge SE-4000H inverter
Watch Michael's system in action:
monitoringpublic.solaredge.co...
00:00 Start
00:19 Introducing Michael and his system
04:07 Install cost
08:07 Clipped solar power
11:37 Living with the system
15:11 Controlling the system
20:08 Data
22:18 What would Michael have done differently?
27:47 Other equipment
30:55 Advice for newcomers
34:44 Closing thoughts
Please note that Tim is not a professional consultant, just an enthusiastic amateur, so cannot reply to requests for advice or opinions on specific systems or green investment opportunities. Thank you for your understanding.
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Thanks, Michael for sharing so much with a novice like me. I really appreciate it as I am learning so much all of the time. Thanks Tim for enabling this.
You are welcome. I hope it helps you pick out the best system for your own needs.
I do like this format, great to hear from lots of variety with brands, size, configuration etc
Thank you - really useful series for those of us trying to find our way...
Glad you found it useful.
Thank you both for this most interesting interview - brilliant for the learning curve of us beginners - hope to see more like this, very soon
Great video! Nothing left out! ❤
Your guest mentioned, or appeared to that he expected peak production and therefore clipping in July and August. Our own experience since 2012 is that the peak months for production have usually been April and May, probably because it’s cooler then than in the main summer months. As you are probably aware as panel temperatures rise the panels themselves lose efficiency so don’t generate as much. Our panels are all south facing by the way so in full sun with no shadowing.
He only got his system in May so perhaps the next full year will show a fuller picture.
@@TimAndKatsGreenWalk I understood that, I was just putting our experience out there.
Impressive what he has achieved with his battery exports to nullify electricity bills. We have an EV so use Octopus Go. We are looking at Flux as we are due to expand our existing pv array to boost winter production but the idea of adding re-charge / discharge cycles to the battery is giving us pause for thought. The Powerwall was in relative terms a massive investment which we want to last as long as possible. We will watch what happens this summer with electricity prices as even with an EV we don’t buy any mains electricity between mid April to the end of September
@@lynnfisher4396 thank you for the information. I will see how my production is over the next couple of months. I have access to five years data from my friends system and May and July were his best months. As you suggested perhaps the hotter weather in June makes that month slightly worse. As for the battery the documentation says it can take unlimited cycles so I decided the best way to use it was to maximise my opportunity for savings and cycle power every day.
@@lyracian Thanks for that, it’s good to have choices and that’s something people without solar and battery don’t have. We are fortunate to be on the old FIT payments so already get a small payment of 50% of our deemed production on our original 3 kw array so it’s not as though any excess is wasted. With more products being offered by electricity providers there should soon be something to suit everyone.
Hi Lynn.....How many kilowatts a day is your system producing? Take for example a cloudless day in early April as at present.
Just listening to the section where you’re discussing clipping as I’ve put a bit of thought I into this. I’ve only had our system since towards the end of January so fairly new to me. What I’ve done today on our inverter (LuxPower) is had a play with the charge setting percentage as by 10am my batteries were already back up to above 80%, consumption was low so was charging them to the point where the DC limit was maxing out and the excess PV was being exported (around 1k). So saw this as an ideal opportunity to test by setting my charge rate for the batteries from 100% to 25%, so as to reverse those figures so most was being exported but the batteries would still get to 100%, just slower meaning the chance of clipping was reduced as lengthening the time the batteries can charge. My inverter is a 3.6kW Hybrid but that’s a little misleading because it can put 3.6 to DC (batteries) while putting the same to AC (consumption and export). My theory is as the days are getting longer and the sun is getting higher in the sky I can maximise the PV by slowing down the rate of charge to the batteries while still getting them charged back up so that the window of maximising what the PV is producing is greater - I’d rather get those extra watts exported that have them clipped and I’ve already seen clipping on days where the batteries are charged back up. Another advantage especially as temperatures rise too is by not charging batteries at 3.6kW less heat will be produced so it should benefit their longevity.
There are so many little tweaks we can do to optimise these systems and every system is different! I expect I'll be spending some time experimenting in a similar way with ours in the coming months.
@@TimAndKatsGreenWalk another thing to bear in mind is that your PV rating isn’t the Max it can produce, it’s just what they’re rated at in a standardised test. Apparently this time of year is great on a bright day because of the combination of lower temperature but can still be bright. As an example, our system is rated at 4.86kW but last week I saw it hit over 6kW so getting a balance right on a very optimal day could mean you get to export a few extra kWh to the grid by balancing the DC & AC right. Although I don’t intend on just watching it every day, but I may be able to set the charge rate to 50% in summer and leave it there.
Awesome, nice to hear what you guys are doing and considering. I had the EV purchased first, a VW ID.3. Then a MyEnergi Zappi v2 on Eco Plus mode, figuring things out along the way.
Solar, FoxCloud ECS battery stackable (for future upgrades) and FoxCloud inverter was recently installed. Car and house powered prodominently via Solar.
The Zappi kicks in as long as the car is plugged in with solar production above the standard 1.4kW. I ensure reduced AC charging via the VW I.D app so I don't drain the solar batteries. The batteries at 100%, then feeds into the VW ID.3, then into the grid.
12x 445W. 8 panels on the main roof, 4 panels on the lower extension, South-Easterly facing. Electric shower spikes the grid to balance the load, but then solar and the battery kick in. Installed 19th-21st April 2023. Electrics done first, 8kW battery system, plenty enough for a family of 3-4.
No need for Forced Charging this time of year (in writing this 4th May 2023). Forced charge is easily done through the app or website. I'm on the Octopus Go Tarrif and just applied for the SEG tariff now that I have all the necessary documents.
Doing my own bird protection/exclusion. This is a MUST for ALL installations despite what any installer says. Added on can be £200-600. To do this myself, I purchased a kit for £139.99 and conjured up some manly courage.
My sales guy asked if I usually have birds, we don't. As soon as they were installed, it didn't take long for the birds to find it and start to building a nest.
Pesky birds have now gone.
Thanks again for the insight. I shall be considering an Eddi for the heat tank and Harvi to see the solar, battery, and future additions. 💥🦾 - Darren Mooruth from Coventry, England.
Love this interview! I am just about to sign up for a SolarEdge battery and 9kw QCells panels in sunny Australia 🇦🇺
Hi Tim, We had ordered a Powerwall last March and its still not available, so we went with a Solar Edge instead .
Very interesting, thanks. & you are an excellent interviewer Tim.
Thank you!
Excellent interview. Your guest might be interested to know there are heat pump tumble dryers on the market
Interesting comment about the micro inverters. I had mine installed one month ago (ordered last week in February). I nearly went with the DC system (Solar Edge) but saw a TH-cam video and ended up with Enphase micro inverters. Yes, it did cost more money (12 micro inverters) but coupled with the Lux Uhome battery system - the system has been a breeze. Want to change a setting, just fire up the app or the computer. Beat going into the loft to do it. I'm still waiting for all the documentation to come through - 6-8 weeks so I've been told. Currently I charge the batteries for a couple of hours on the E7 cheap tariff, which will diminish through the summer months. My biggest problem is the heating and hot water, which done by oil fired combi (no gas). Not certain whether the outlay would be worth it to buy a separate immersion water heater system. It would cost probably a couple of thousands of £'s as a minimum to do it. I'll probably end up on Octopus as the battery controller comes ready setup to communicate with that company.
I have a SE solar + battery (outside) set up and very happy with it. Clipped energy can go to my battery but unfortunately the battery tends to be full before clipping starts at about 11am
Michael, I don't think you should regret the SolarEdge battery over the Tesla one. As you point out, it's DC coupled which is far better, and can charge from clipped energy. It's also cheaper.
Also, there's a opportunity that you're missing with further upgrades, you are worrying about another inverter and interfacing with your current battery. Rather than getting another inverter, consider replacing the current one with a larger SolarEdge Home Hub inverter. I believe SolarEdge are offering a free grid interface device (necessary for islanding, normally costs more than £1000 I think) if you buy a Home Hub inverter and 'trade in' your old HD wave inverter.
That's useful to know.
Thank you. I will check with my installer as I believe that was what I was waiting for them to release as it was not available last year.
@@lyracian Up to 6kW the Home Hub inverters are just about available now. 8 and 10kW they're talking about the end of the year, which I would take as 2024.
That was interesting. I speak as a pretty ignorant owner despite having had PV panels for 12 years and battery for one. My motive for their purchase was simple - to make money. Sod the planet. If you are in a position where you can afford PV and a battery are other people going to cut you some slack? No way! So let our virtue signalling politicians who are so keen to be seen to be doing the right thing by eco-wombles. That typically means subsiding “green” power. Thank you very much - Kerching!
Overall though, What I found interesting was Michael’s comment regarding system planning. If you have neither panels nor a battery you should be trying to imagine a 10 year plan. It’s a tough call but you will have to imagine your power demands in the future. You need to work out what your biggest consumers will be (electric car, heat pump, hot water, cooking, fridges and freezers, washing or other items) and when they demand power ie. You need an energy profile. With this in mind, you then start looking at you route. Will it be AC or DC? Will it be all at once or piece meal? Where will the stuff go? Will plumbing be required? And so on.
With the above in mind, what really grips me is that the media and politicians ( and the WEF, EU, eco-warriors etc.) are constantly blithering on about saving the planet yet offer no practical methods or advice on how to do so. You are left on your own or get pointless, inaccurate guidance from government funded institutions. It is left to the individual to pick their way through the “green” power minefield. One could get the impression that this whole Climate Change/Warming/Heating/Explosion is just a device to get Joe Public to suck on something else that would normally be unacceptable.
I’m pro global warming and for increased CO2. I have two small PV arrays that total 3.7 kWh feeding a dual string SMA 4 kW inverter and an AC Puredrive 2, externally mounted 10 kWh battery.
Well, I'm glad you've got PV and battery storage, whatever your reasons for getting them.
Great share of information. Michael needs a Switchbot on his tumble dryer. However, I would say many house fires are caused by unattended tumble dryers, make sure you have good smoke detectors that are tested.
I think he's intending to get a more efficient one that also has a timer, so that should help.
The Lego Death Star is an awesome model. :-)
Yeah, makes for a good backdrop
I am glad someone recognised it; have had a lot of fun with my daughter playing with that. She even helped build it.
@@lyracian I was going to ask about it during the interview but forgot. It's very impressive.
DNO is 3.6kw export limit to Grid I think. My SunSynk inverter has this export limit in software. If excess Solar above 3.6 it can send the excess to the battery.
My smart meter is dumb so I don’t charge from the grid at all. Mine has been usually powering me through the night till Solar since mid-Feb.
You can have a higher export limit with a G99 application. We can export 5 kW, for example. I'm looking forward to seeing how much of the year we can get by on just the solar.
Hi, interesting video, but feel Michael's statement that he never pays for electricity is watered down as we do not know how much he consumes. Michael makes a good point about batteries. Despite everyone saying, get as much battery as possible, I computed that the moment (Export rate above 12p kwh), I would be lucky to save an additional £300 p.a. by buying another 5kwh Puredrive battery for £3,000 . My view could change if able to take advantage of exporting at peak times, however I seem to use 8kwh after 1900 hours, so would need a massive battery.
I think he was making the point that he was getting enough income from exporting excess power to cover any import charges, so net zero bills. He may be able to tell you what his demand is if he sees this.
That is true. As a family of three we use around 250 kWh a month. Other than cooking we do not use a lot of power in the evening so I can export 40% of the battery power between 18:00-19:00 which will add around £1.30 of earning each day on Flux (the house uses some of the power so I do not get to export the full 4 kWh). My intention is to keep exporting at peak times until September.
I have a Solar Edge system on order and wanted the Tesla battery, but the DNO restricted our inverter size, so while it's larger and cheaper per kWh than the Solar Edge, I have to go down the DC route.
Ah, it's always a pain when you have to change your plans because of the DNO. I'm sure you'll get a lot out of your system regardless though.
Another amazing video!! I don’t suppose there is a Growatt owner interview coming up? These seem to be doing the rounds, and is most pulled the trigger… 😅
No Growatt interview on the cards just yet. Perhaps someone will come forward on due course.
In my opinion you should always oversize your inverter relative to your solar array, this removes the "clipping" issue. You should also maximise your solar array to try and cover as much of your electricity use through the winter. This will massively over spec the system for summer but with the new flux tariff this should give a good income
It's common to do it the other way (i.e. undersize your inverter compared to peak PV output) because you so rarely hit the maximum PV output (a few hours on a few days in the year). Doing it this way means you get superior generation in the winter because the smaller inverter "switches on" at lower light levels compared to an inverter with a larger output. That's often a better compromise because it's in the winter you'll need that power most. It's a balance, of course, and down to personal preference at the end of the day.
@@TimAndKatsGreenWalk can you please explain what you mean by switch on at lower levels? I am unaware of a minimum solar input to an inverter. What specification would I be looking for on a dat sheet?
I also think it depends on your system size how much clipping will occur. I am about to have a 10kw solar array installed, if I had a 5kw inverter I think around 6months of the year I would have clipped production. So in this case I think there is value in having a bigger inverter
@@ryannowell3802 take a look at any number of articles explaining why undersizing an inverter is common practice, e.g.
www.alternergy.co.uk/blog/post/inverter-oversize
or
freedomforever.com/solar-academy/solar-academy-lesson-5-solar-inverter-oversizing-vs-undersizing/
In that second one look about half way down where it says "Undersized inverters will ramp up quicker in the mornings, and ramp down slower in the afternoons".
I think it's due to inverters being more efficient at higher power levels, so smaller inverters will reach higher efficiencies at lower input levels.
I'm not sure what value to look for in the spec sheet but this is something I've heard in a few places. I hope that helps.
It is fascinating to see how people have taken steps in this energy quagmire and now reside in a world of Apps. In the end, the most important bit is that everyone is happy with their investment and that it works for them.
There is a potential video to be made considering ROI /Lifecycle reduction on discharging a home battery or EV back to grid (RentaBattery) taking into account its cost, power factor losses, depreciation etc given the number of charge and discharge cycles.
Now to be cheeky, would you “RentYourEV” based on its eco friendliness if there was a way of getting paid for it having charged it free from a Solar PV 😜
It wouldn't surprise me if Gary from Gary Does Solar is planning a video on the subject of battery degradation. If anyone could do justice to that subject it would be him.
I have 4kWh Solar PV on West facing roof and 4kWh added later to me East facing roof, when i added my Tesla Powerwall 2. DNO upgraded my Main Fuse from 60 to 80 Amps. They are also contacted for EV charger installs and ASHP installs to ensure your supply can work with the extra load.
I am now seeing if an extra 4kWh of solar can be added to my South facing wall and having put the order in, the company will contact DNO for authorisation and any limits. This is at no additional cost to me and any costs will have been included within the quote.
I also have Zappi and Eddi, but the ASHP in the summer will be more economic to use than the Eddi, due to the 300% to 400% efficiency.
Wow, big system! Very nice indeed.
Thanks for this. I'm considering a 12KW solar/16KWH ac-coupled battery installation in next few months, ideally with battery backup in event of grid failure. Are there any current systems which are more "intelligent" that can minimise grid usage by understanding your previous days/week pattern of consumption (during light/dark/peak hours), and estimate your likely next day production based on local weather conditions and panel output, then work out the amount it needs charge your batteries from the grid during the cheap period (if at all in summer) hence able to minise your bills. Not sure if I am expecting too much of a system?
Good question. It's possible you could set up something like Home Assistant to do that for you but that's not something I have any experience with, I'm afraid.
@@TimAndKatsGreenWalk Thanks, I did ask ChatGPT if its AI was capable of developing an algorithm but it couldn't, it simply confirmed the factors which affect optomisation of battery charging.
Basically, ideally I want the the battery charged during flux/cheap period if it estimates (based on previous days usage and possibly next day weather forecast) that there won't be enough solar later that day to charge the battery sufficiently to cover my anticipated dark hours usage. If it estimates there will be plenty of solar next day, to not charge the battery during flux period (saving import cost), and then even export during peak period if I have sufficent capacity to last the remaining dartk hours. Given up trying to model this in excel my brain aches! (unless anyone has a simple way of doing this - would be great if the invertotr/battery had this level of adaptive/learning software
@@gazzer1468 I think the problem with this approach is the lack of real predictability in the weather. For example I had a forecast of 15kWh generation today so in theory would drop my system to 50% overnight charge. If I had I would now be using Peak electric prices/CO2 as the real generation has been 9.9kWh. From experience it's very difficult to predict this time of year accurately, those pesky April showers are the problem!
Timer plugs if your tumble dryer will start when power is applied
I do this with our dehumidifiers. Although now I'll probably turn them on when it's sunny rather than overnight!
Unfortunately with the position of our machines there is not actually enough space behind the machine for a timer plug. It is raised up on a shelf above the washing machine
I probably need to expand on that comment of mine slightly. Having a timer is not the only reason I was looking at a new dryer. The current one is quite old and a standard cycle uses 4.25 kWh. A new dryer is rated at around 1.5 kWh for a cycle which is only one third of the cost.
@@lyracian if you’ve not already changed to one, I can attest they are great. We’ve had our Grundig Heat Pump dryer for 8 years. Absolute life saver in the winter. Yes it takes a bit longer than a regular condenser, but like you’re planning on doing, we run ours almost exclusively at night on the timer.
It does get used sometimes during the day and run off the battery/solar if it’s too wet outside / overcast to line dry. Also handy to final dry the line stuff to remove the fluff and soften towels. My work sells them. Half the models we range are now heat pump. Makes complete sense.
I wouldn’t worry too much about getting one A++++++++ , though the Samsung ones are very nice and one I tested one day was significantly quieter to “tumble” than ours.
Agile dropped to -0.31 p to buy the other night. It’s moving a bit more now
That is good to know. I still think Flux is better for me with the increased export rates; at least until September.
Shout out for the installer please?
I'm sure Michael can let you know.
@@TimAndKatsGreenWalk That would be good, living in a similar area it’s good to find respected installers :)
@@Gazmaz From Michael (he can't post links but I can): www.cuberoot-energy.co.uk/
@@TimAndKatsGreenWalk thanks I’ll check them out :)
Look at a switch bot to turn on your tumble drier
I think Michael wants a more efficient one in any case.
@@TimAndKatsGreenWalk Yup. Heat pump tumble dryers are the best
I ended up buying a Miele TCR780WP tumble dryer. My requirements were:
It must be at least A++ in efficiency
It must have reverse action
It also can't be a Samsung or LG
So, the ones I'm left with are the Miele tumble dryer (at the time) I think Indesit now have one too. The Miele I have is A+++-10% rated. It actually uses less energy than my A rated (on the new scale), washing machine. Go figure
Solax all work outside
Solax don’t work well in the cold. I have them in detached garage and needed to insulate.
@@jaishpuri7001 what temps did they get down to before you noticed problems?
I’d say ambient temp of 5 degrees and lower and the charge rate really slows down. When we had the extremely cold spell they just didn’t work at all.
I think a lot of systems are rated to work outside but may not perform quite as well when it gets particularly cold.
@@TimAndKatsGreenWalk Hi, totally agree. I have a Puredrive battery which is rated to work outside as long as the temp does not go below zero. Then the battery does not work for 3 days. As they said we do not get below zero ever, even at night ?? Location East Anglia. If known this would have not gone for a Puredrive battery.