if i can hear the float click on and off that means it still works right ? and i’d only have to replace the lower half of the #2 switch ? as of now it has to be manually feed after it it skimmed weekly. didn’t want to replace the whole control if it wasn’t necessary
The "clickty-chick" is a good sign that the float & bellows is working and the switch snap action is working, but if the burner still isn't shutting off, the #2 switch most likely needs replacemnt ASAP. If the burner shut-off works, but the feeder isn't, check continuity and voltages with a test meter. Water feeding is not a direct safety issue. But if even that issue can be traced to the #2 switch, the switch should be replaced. Cheaper than a new boiler.
This was so helpful..especially the cut away view of the low water cut off valve. One furnace im having issues with is that it wont auto fill so i think i need to remove that strainer at the bottom and clean it or replace it i can manually feed water into it by opening the bypass valve ..the unit kick back on with no issues of course until the water level drops and we have to add more water. Im heading to that furnace tomorrow morning armed with my new found knowledge thanks to you. Great videos ...thanks again.
You are so welcome! I hope you get to the bottom of that troublesome 47-2 feeder. If I may offer some advice: check for failed open radiator vents, loose valve packing nuts, leaking union nuts, buried wet returns, as well as the boiler itself for holes above the waterline, etc. etc. while you are there. If the feeder doesn't need to add much water, it will operate longer without failure.
When I had my boiler replaced ten years ago I was talked out of using the device you’re showing by my plumber. I have a modern low water cut off and I manually feed the water to the boiler.
I don’t really have a problem with them, but we have them on daily maintained 3.5 million btu boilers. When properly maintained, they are ok. keep all of the spare parts in stock.
That is to my point... "*properly* maintained". Very rare what you are doing (well done, by the way!) But my other issue with the #47-2 is the water feeder. Unless you have a water meter on the line to it, and you log the meter, you have no way of knowing if you have excessive water loss. Excessive water loss destroys steam boilers for those that might not know.
Gordon Schweizer I had that happen last year on a 500 MBthuh steamer we installed about two years before that. I said ‘You been blowing this down right like I showed you, the buckets right here’ ‘Oh yes weekly’ Opened it up..... Mud had gone over top of float and cemented it in lowered state, showed them that. Now they do it. I don’t think most customers realize how important that is unless their Dad used to make them do it as kids or they shoveled coal to stay warm.
@@bauhnguefyische667 What I've started doing is not only showing customers what to do as far as blow-downs,* but having then do it right then and there*. I say it helps delevop muscle memory. It seems to be working.
You shouldn't need the M&M #67 if your 47-2 is in working order and is being maintained in accordance with manufacture's instructions. Having said that, I will say again and again that both controls are obsolete trash and should be replaced ASAP with up-to-date electronic LWCOs.
@@carrickrentals5632 The electronic LWCO & feeder are separate units. The LWCO is absolutely necessary for safe boiler operation The automatic feeder is not, but it's nice to have. As to their pricing, they are cheaper than a new boiler, but beyond that, there are just too many variables to give a meaningful estimate.
I had a steam boiler with this #47 controller. Filled the whole system with water and the pipe leaked into the walls and ceiling. "Wasn't a great day for anybody" is a very accurate way to put it.haha Question- is it necessary to replace the whole control or would just the fill valve do the trick if the issue is that it is just over filling
I am sorry to hear about your flooding disaster. The mfg. says to replace the whole control if it is over 10 yrs in service (a bit of c.y.a., methinks). I would first get an idea of how much make-up water you are using. You can valve off the auto fill (at least, I hope you can), and run the system without it. It is not a safety device. It might be covering up for hidden leaks in your system. Test the low water cut-off part every week as per instructions as per usual. If the float/switch doesn't work to shut off the burner, repair or replace the whole unit asap. Add water manually to the middle of the gauge glass after the testing. If you find you are adding more and more water than you are taking out during the "blow downs" (best guess), you may have other leaks/water loss in your system and these should be repaired before you consider replacing/rebuilding the feeder. Leaks cause the feeder to rust (iron body. why do they still make it with iron?) and fail sooner. Better yet, replace the 47-2 with an electronic probe-type LWCO and the feeder with a VXT auto feeder and have done.
I am on my third 47 2. First one without the hex design lasted for 20 years. The second one started to fail after 12 years. Now costing over 1000 dollars each. I think there are cheaper alternatives.
Steam boilers do tend to respond better to "hands on" treatment, so your hand fill technique is the way to go, especially since you have a 47-2. As you say, they tend to overfill. They also tend to not fill at all! You can't catch a break! Moreover, the 47-2 auto feeder does not care if you have a boiler killing leak somewhere. It will just keep adding water un-monitored until it is too late. Result? Rusted out boiler. Thanks, 47-2. As you do hand filling, I have no doubt you will notice when you have to add more water than usual and take the appropriate steps to find and fix any leak(s). When we can, we'll pull a plug on the boiler at the proper level (if it exists) and install a probe type LWCO and remove the 47-2.
And now that I’m thinking, have you ever considered a live stream shop tour? You should do it, but announce maybe a couple weeks ahead. Your picking up steam, I’ve been watching a few years as a fellow steam head.
Great video! Do they also make a high water shut off to control, that should the water feed get stuck in the open position it closes a valve to keep the boiler and radiators from getting flooded?
It should be removed entirely and replaced with an electronic probe type low water control as soon as you can. The former owner of this control blamed us for its failure and used that as an excuse not to pay us for the work we did. In the mean time, test it weekly while the burner is running until you can replace it. Good luck.
The boiler shown should have been replaced decades ago. In general, no prevision for probe type LWCOs installations on such boilers were made. The only way to install a probe type LWCO on many older boilers (and the modern Weil-Mclain LGB) is on a special manifold that still needs to be blown down. Yet even that is far superior to this 47-2 piece of junk.
Hi I really enjoyed the video, and also having a bit of a problem myself. I have the same set up but my automatic feeder is not refilling what could be causing that, I've flushed it but sometimes it'll fill on it's own but really really slow or not at all. do you have any suggestions
Thank you for your comment. My guess would be that the auto-feed is crudded up with rust. It is made of iron and has fresh water flowing thru it from copper pipes, a recipe for failure...that is why I really don't like this feeder.
Guess who had one of these today? lol, ok guessing not required. I am balancing a solution, rebuild or replace......and you know that’s not small change here. My part shows 3/64 sooooo, I know it’s a rebuild and it has round not hex castings, which I know you know the date difference on.
Hi. I have this this type of feeder (the new style) and it leaks water from the mechanical arm. Im guessing its not closing all the way. Is there a way to repair this? Thank you so much!
Yes. That boiler arguably should have been replaced decades ago. But 'tis hard to blame the sellers for not wanting to shell out the bucks for a new boiler they won't get to enjoy. And while that boiler has the efficiency of a bonfire, it does not leak and fills every radiator end-to-end with quiet steam. But its days are numbered. Yes.
This is when they are like old shoes, they just do their purpose. As long as the boiler cement sticks and perf straps holds, we’re gold! Bonus, Customer learns you are honest, best kind of future lead, with new owner...who knows it best? The mechanic who has been keeping goin.
Ok, I’m rebuilding one of these.... It’s full of sediment, the floats welp not floaty and full of water. The Screen was .... you know forget it. Steamers it’s a easy fix. Let’s do it.
Not really, IMHO. They are both float-type LWCOs and are generally not as reliable as probe-type LWCOs. Again, that is just my opinion. Funny, I can remember twenty-plus years ago when I wanted nothing to do with them d....ed communist probe whatchamacallits. I remember feeling a victim of sharp practice when a boiler I ordered with a #67 arrived with a #@%$ probe! I feel the exact opposite today. I'd advise anybody faced with replacing a defective #67 or a 47-2 to try and install a probe-type LWCO (if possible).
if i can hear the float click on and off that means it still works right ? and i’d only have to replace the lower half of the #2 switch ? as of now it has to be manually feed after it it skimmed weekly. didn’t want to replace the whole control if it wasn’t necessary
The "clickty-chick" is a good sign that the float & bellows is working and the switch snap action is working, but if the burner still isn't shutting off, the #2 switch most likely needs replacemnt ASAP.
If the burner shut-off works, but the feeder isn't, check continuity and voltages with a test meter.
Water feeding is not a direct safety issue.
But if even that issue can be traced to the #2 switch, the switch should be replaced.
Cheaper than a new boiler.
This was so helpful..especially the cut away view of the low water cut off valve. One furnace im having issues with is that it wont auto fill so i think i need to remove that strainer at the bottom and clean it or replace it i can manually feed water into it by opening the bypass valve ..the unit kick back on with no issues of course until the water level drops and we have to add more water. Im heading to that furnace tomorrow morning armed with my new found knowledge thanks to you. Great videos ...thanks again.
You are so welcome! I hope you get to the bottom of that troublesome 47-2 feeder. If I may offer some advice: check for failed open radiator vents, loose valve packing nuts, leaking union nuts, buried wet returns, as well as the boiler itself for holes above the waterline, etc. etc. while you are there. If the feeder doesn't need to add much water, it will operate longer without failure.
When I had my boiler replaced ten years ago I was talked out of using the device you’re showing by my plumber. I have a modern low water cut off and I manually feed the water to the boiler.
Very good!
I'd only use this thing on a crab steamer.
Love your videos! Thank you for educating us on steam systems. Not many truly understand them anymore.
Thanks!
I don’t really have a problem with them, but we have them on daily maintained 3.5 million btu boilers. When properly maintained, they are ok. keep all of the spare parts in stock.
That is to my point... "*properly* maintained".
Very rare what you are doing (well done, by the way!)
But my other issue with the #47-2 is the water feeder.
Unless you have a water meter on the line to it, and you log the meter, you have no way of knowing if you have excessive water loss.
Excessive water loss destroys steam boilers for those that might not know.
I never thought of calling a boiler a crab steamer. Good analogy, now I can build/fix a crab steamer, too!
I’m in the restaurant biz now. Lol
Yup! A Maryland tradition, using a regular steam boiler to steam crabs. I wonder why they don't last long ;-)?
Gordon Schweizer
Maybe the Old Bay Seasoning clogs up those 47’s !
That stuff makes everything taste good ;-)
@@bauhnguefyische667 Oh yes,I like Old Bay on my Old Bay!
All kidding aside, I'd really like to know why that thing stuck open and flooded the system
Gordon Schweizer
I had that happen last year on a 500 MBthuh steamer we installed about two years before that.
I said
‘You been blowing this down right like I showed you, the buckets right here’
‘Oh yes weekly’
Opened it up.....
Mud had gone over top of float and cemented it in lowered state, showed them that.
Now they do it.
I don’t think most customers realize how important that is unless their Dad used to make them do it as kids or they shoveled coal to stay warm.
@@bauhnguefyische667 What I've started doing is not only showing customers what to do as far as blow-downs,* but having then do it right then and there*. I say it helps delevop muscle memory. It seems to be working.
I've changed out a few of the 47-2s going back about 40 years.
where can I get a strainer assembly like the one you used? my local guy says $310!!!
SupplyHouseDOTcom?
Best to spend more and ditch the 47-2 would be my advice.
Hey, check out the price of the "easily replaceable" valve cartridge on these things! Does anyone bother with these anymore???
I know, right?
& it's just plastic.
Hello...I have a McDonald-Miller 47-2 LWCO. Would I still need the McDonald Miller #67 LWCO? Thanking you in advance for any help.
You shouldn't need the M&M #67 if your 47-2 is in working order and is being maintained in accordance with manufacture's instructions.
Having said that, I will say again and again that both controls are obsolete trash and should be replaced ASAP with up-to-date electronic LWCOs.
Thank you so much for your reponse! Will the HydroLevel LWCO do both operations (feeder & LWCO)? Approx cost? I appreciate your help & expertise!
@@carrickrentals5632 The electronic LWCO & feeder are separate units.
The LWCO is absolutely necessary for safe boiler operation
The automatic feeder is not, but it's nice to have.
As to their pricing, they are cheaper than a new boiler, but beyond that, there are just too many variables to give a meaningful estimate.
I had a steam boiler with this #47 controller. Filled the whole system with water and the pipe leaked into the walls and ceiling. "Wasn't a great day for anybody" is a very accurate way to put it.haha
Question- is it necessary to replace the whole control or would just the fill valve do the trick if the issue is that it is just over filling
I am sorry to hear about your flooding disaster.
The mfg. says to replace the whole control if it is over 10 yrs in service (a bit of c.y.a., methinks).
I would first get an idea of how much make-up water you are using. You can valve off the auto fill (at least, I hope you can), and run the system without it. It is not a safety device. It might be covering up for hidden leaks in your system.
Test the low water cut-off part every week as per instructions as per usual. If the float/switch doesn't work to shut off the burner, repair or replace the whole unit asap.
Add water manually to the middle of the gauge glass after the testing.
If you find you are adding more and more water than you are taking out during the "blow downs" (best guess), you may have other leaks/water loss in your system and these should be repaired before you consider replacing/rebuilding the feeder. Leaks cause the feeder to rust (iron body. why do they still make it with iron?) and fail sooner.
Better yet, replace the 47-2 with an electronic probe-type LWCO and the feeder with a VXT auto feeder and have done.
I am on my third 47 2. First one without the hex design lasted for 20 years. The second one started to fail after 12 years. Now costing over 1000 dollars each. I think there are cheaper alternatives.
Just a note, newer 47-2 feeders are now made in China. ITT no longer tags these. The new company is Xylem, so far it seems to be operating ok.
I have a similar one on my 2005 Burnham install. Seems ok, but I handfill only. Hate autofeeders since they overfill
Steam boilers do tend to respond better to "hands on" treatment, so your hand fill technique is the way to go, especially since you have a 47-2. As you say, they tend to overfill. They also tend to not fill at all! You can't catch a break!
Moreover, the 47-2 auto feeder does not care if you have a boiler killing leak somewhere. It will just keep adding water un-monitored until it is too late. Result? Rusted out boiler. Thanks, 47-2.
As you do hand filling, I have no doubt you will notice when you have to add more water than usual and take the appropriate steps to find and fix any leak(s).
When we can, we'll pull a plug on the boiler at the proper level (if it exists) and install a probe type LWCO and remove the 47-2.
And now that I’m thinking, have you ever considered a live stream shop tour? You should do it, but announce maybe a couple weeks ahead. Your picking up steam, I’ve been watching a few years as a fellow steam head.
Great video! Do they also make a high water shut off to control, that should the water feed get stuck in the open position it closes a valve to keep the boiler and radiators from getting flooded?
As far as I know, there is no commercially available high water shut off control. What is out there is almost always "ad hoc".
When should it be drained? Weekly or monthly?
It should be removed entirely and replaced with an electronic probe type low water control as soon as you can.
The former owner of this control blamed us for its failure and used that as an excuse not to pay us for the work we did.
In the mean time, test it weekly while the burner is running until you can replace it.
Good luck.
Thanks appreciate it….. I have replaced it maybe twice-3x over 20+ yrs
Hi ,
In this system can a newer low water cut off be installed ? Or if has to be that old school ?
Thanks
The boiler shown should have been replaced decades ago.
In general, no prevision for probe type LWCOs installations on such boilers were made.
The only way to install a probe type LWCO on many older boilers (and the modern Weil-Mclain LGB) is on a special manifold that still needs to be blown down.
Yet even that is far superior to this 47-2 piece of junk.
@@gordonschweizer5154 thank you for taking the time to reply.
Hi I really enjoyed the video, and also having a bit of a problem myself. I have the same set up but my automatic feeder is not refilling what could be causing that, I've flushed it but sometimes it'll fill on it's own but really really slow or not at all. do you have any suggestions
Thank you for your comment.
My guess would be that the auto-feed is crudded up with rust.
It is made of iron and has fresh water flowing thru it from copper pipes, a recipe for failure...that is why I really don't like this feeder.
Guess who had one of these today?
lol, ok guessing not required.
I am balancing a solution, rebuild or replace......and you know that’s not small change here.
My part shows 3/64 sooooo, I know it’s a rebuild and it has round not hex castings, which I know you know the date difference on.
Hi. I have this this type of feeder (the new style) and it leaks water from the mechanical arm. Im guessing its not closing all the way. Is there a way to repair this? Thank you so much!
My best advice to you is to replace the entire obsolete #47-2 with proper 21th century electronic controls and feeders. It is not worth repairing.
Do you have the brand and part number for the sight glass blow down valve?
I hope to make a new video soon to go into more detail on those valves. Stay tuned!
do you think the need a new boiler?
Yes.
That boiler arguably should have been replaced decades ago.
But 'tis hard to blame the sellers for not wanting to shell out the bucks for a new boiler they won't get to enjoy. And while that boiler has the efficiency of a bonfire, it does not leak and fills every radiator end-to-end with quiet steam. But its days are numbered.
Yes.
Gordon Schweizer
When if finally fails it will be full of crabs.
You’ll get the joke in a minute.
Smile! Have a Great Day.
This is when they are like old shoes, they just do their purpose.
As long as the boiler cement sticks and perf straps holds, we’re gold!
Bonus,
Customer learns you are honest, best kind of future lead, with new owner...who knows it best?
The mechanic who has been keeping goin.
Ok,
I’m rebuilding one of these....
It’s full of sediment, the floats welp not floaty and full of water. The Screen was .... you know forget it.
Steamers it’s a easy fix.
Let’s do it.
I use the #67 often. I wonder if this #47 is more reliable?
Not really, IMHO. They are both float-type LWCOs and are generally not as reliable as probe-type LWCOs. Again, that is just my opinion.
Funny, I can remember twenty-plus years ago when I wanted nothing to do with them d....ed communist probe whatchamacallits. I remember feeling a victim of sharp practice when a boiler I ordered with a #67 arrived with a #@%$ probe!
I feel the exact opposite today. I'd advise anybody faced with replacing a defective #67 or a 47-2 to try and install a probe-type LWCO (if possible).