We Need To Talk About Tactics Ogre Reborn...
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ม.ค. 2023
- My review of the remaster of Tactics Ogre, called Reborn. A strategy RPG I've always disliked. Did this remaster change my mind?
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As a clarification, law isn't good and chaos isn't evil on the context of the game. I think it's more of a reference to the morality systems like D&D, where you can be for example lawful evil or chaotic good. Without spoiling anything, the chaos route literally have more to do with disregarding orders and choosing your own way than it has with being evil.
Yeah, that's kinda funny that Erick would assume Chaos is the evil route despite being an SMT fan. Lol.
I’d argue Law is the evil path and named that on purpose.
@@ltb1345 Early d&d took (especially) law and chaos, called them good and evil, and we had things such as being too good made elves fascist (Dragonlance).
Law is "just following orders" as many claimed after WW2. Chaos is disobeying orders and going out on your own. Its not good or evil.
But we can all agree that the Law route starts by choosing an evil act (though I agree with your argument about that not being necessarily linked).
All in all, although I hate the act that starts the Law route and only got to choose it to complete the other two routes (my main one being that of Chaos), I have to say that the route of Law has the most profound narrative and dense character development, it became my preffered way.
There is a way to grind in this game. When the phorampa woods become available, you can fight those maps to your hearts content. The grind comes from getting green cards and recruiting monsters. The queen cards can increase stats and you can auction monsters off for food items, that also increase stats.
I didn't mind the level cap but I do agree that it's not needed.
Exactly what I was thinking, glad you said it. 👍
That's literally what I did. And because they have auto battle I didn't have to spend any real world time grinding.
From Coffee Potato, a Tactics Ogre / Ogre Battle enthusiast who covers this franchise in his own YT channel:
"It's one of those games that's best experienced a second time. Honestly I bounced off at first, and now I've covered it for thousands of videos.
The difficulty mostly comes down to every mechanic having a million little subtle sub mechanics behind it, and it's in appreciating those details that you come back with a "oh crap, THAT'S what's going on there?" Mentality.
Also, it's one of those RPGs that tends to burn a lot of folks when they try to power through. It's designed for strategizing around problems, which tends to confuse many when they come in with the "XYZ thing was too tanky or strong" approach. A large part of that is how notoriously hard to describe each mechanic is. For example. Many folks die to Nybbeth at the start. "Wizard hit too hard". Resilience technically boosts resistance by 20%. His damage goes down by 40%. Is it just him? No, scaling happens in phase 2, after stats, but before armor calculation, meaning his missiles get affected harder by damage threshold. Now try to explain that 5 times fast 🤣!
That said, there's so much meat on these bones. I've been running this thing for 12 years now, and still run into new stuff each time.
Tactics Ogre Reborn is... technically a bit reworked from last time, too. Like...explaining the strategic application of setting up barricades to trap units on swamp tiles before petrifying them to slowly choke to death was seemingly too much, so now it's more about the quick moves. To that end, you may find a lot more common ground between the PSP version and the incredible One Vision overhaul."
I tried every version of the game since the SNES one and I bounced off of every single one hard.
And I really love the Final Fantasy Tactics games.
You don't HAVE to love the game. I love this game, and I'm happy you gave it a fair shot. The challenge and obsessive strategizing is funnily enough what I most like about this.
Perfectly said.
Agree, the union level mechanic made it possible for the devs to finetune the difficulty.
Erick is right tho, this game is not for casual gamers - and it's a great thing for us who appreciate this specific experience
Exactly I also love the game but it’s not for everyone
What surprised me the most is that the enemy boss already start with 4 cards isn't part of the unfairness mentioned. It's a way bigger crime than the level cap.
@@birifumi Oh yeah, even I felt like that was unfair. It would've been better to give the boss a better weapon or just high stats. Giving the boss cards at the start feels cheap
I get it if you don't like the level cap. I'm fond of powerleveling myself and steamrolling through enemies but I also get what they were going for. A strategy game that requires strategy to beat it. Makes sense. The same way I understand games that have level scaling. It's a mechanic that encourages people to think tactfully rather than just hitting "A" repeatedly.
Like Dark Sould games, I suck at them, but I commend them for not bending the knee and giving people an easy mode. Like how saying you beat Contra or Ghouls & Ghosts, I think there's that satisfaction that you might be able to beat something many/most people couldn't.(Granted, many people don't finish the games they have).
To each their own but I don't think the choice of having a level cap was "stupid". Just something that doesn't gel with your playstyle. If you don't like level caps, you can always play Disgaea.
absolutely agree. Heck, all the arguments he used against the level cap are just flat out wrong xD
Souls isn't even that great of an argument for this although it's common to think so. There are many tools of beating them while not getting very good.
100 percent spot on.
The problem is that the absence of level cap DOESN'T necessarily take away the "tactfull thinking" if you don't want to. That's literally the point, not having level cap DOESN'T TAKE ANYTHING AWAY. Having it DOES.
What Level Cap 'crusaders' like the ones all over this comment section fail to admit is that the ONLY thing the obligatory level cap does is actually inflating the ego of those who finish the game, the shallow 'git gud' factor. And I'm not even talking about me: if other people wanna experience it by overleveling (on a RPG, what a crime), why shouldn't they? Limiting the way OTHERS can play the game making it MORE FUN is like being happy an exclusive game is available only to me and not to anybody else. Major a*hole behaviour, pure ego and that's it.
And this is not even the main point. OTHER VERSIONS OF THE GAME DIDN'T HAVE IT, at least from what I know. When you make a hard game from scratch on purpose because you decided to or didn't have resources to implement an easier mode, fair point (though there are MANY clever ways for designing harder RPGs, level cap is far from being one to me). Doing it in a situation of a remake/remaster like this? Hard to defend, at least in my opinion.
@@Daniel_Rodrigues_89 Thats an interesting way of looking at it. I certainly never thought of it in an elitist kind of way. I just thought I love a challenge and the game wont let me avoid said challenge by overlevelling and yet I can still grind for money and abilities so the grinding is still there if I want it. Its perfect for me as I do actually like to grind to unlock things, level, get more money for better weapons etc but STILL want it to be challenging.
This is perfect for me that way but seeing your point of view I totally get it, an option to turn level cap on and off in options would be ideal I guess. For those that want to play it with level cap and with no rewinds they could unlock a cool title or cosmetic or something. :)
I'm glad I'm not the only person who likes to grind and overlevel and steam roll enemies.
there's a special app for grindrs like you.
Depends on my mood. I've done challenge runs or low level runs before but sometimes I just wanna see how strong I can make my characters. As long as people are having fun then why does it matter how someone else plays a single player game?
I had a similar reaction with the level cap at first until I found out that I could just craft my equipment and enhance it to where the enemy wasn't even a threat anymore. From there on out the game was a cake walk
I think many people don't realize this, but even just the +1 equipment variants for example aren't simply a straight stat upgrade from the base gear. They will often have other effects, like weapons inflicting statuses like Poison or Stun, staves giving extra spell range, boots giving extra movement range, gloves giving extra jump height. And I'm well into chapter 4 now and so far have seen no enemies carrying those +1 upgrades with extra effects (as opposed to just carrying gear with better stats than yours).
Use the upgraded equipment from crafting, folks. They are a much bigger deal than they look on the surface!
If you feed stat charms to Denam, the game becomes a cakewalk. The level of your unit is far less important in this game. It's all about stats
I love this game series and this is my favourite in the series. Never was an easy ride but it was the first SRPG I played that really nailed that tabletop battle feel with complex and varied mechanics.
played it on PSvita. it's wonderful.
I'm not a fan of the character models, but the rest looks incredible. The lettering and portraits remind me of Vagrant Story. I love Final Fantasy Tactics. I think I'm going to have to give this a go.
Definitely not a coincidence either. A lot of the artists and designers responsible for Vagrant Story, FFT, FF12, and the games in the Ivalice setting more generally were from people that at one point or another worked at Quest and had worked on Ogre Battle and Tactics Ogre. Many of the key people at Quest like Yasumi Matsuno, Hiroshi Minagawa, Akihiko Yoshida, and Hitoshi Sakimoto worked on the Ogre Battle/Tactics Ogre series, then decided to join Square a few years before Ogre Battle 64 got released I believe, worked on FFT, and then Quest itself got bought shortly after. So Tactics Ogre shares a lot of the same "creative DNA" so to speak with the Ivalice games.
do it, super game.
i played it on switch , the game is fun.
and yah VS /FFt need a remake would be sweet
Looks good on Switch, but the PS version models look bad. Otherwise good game
What are you waiting for? lol
What made the difficulty manageable for me was really using items, like the best crafted potions for restoring health and the ones that cause status (that many bosses can indeed suffer from) like lowering attack or lessening defense. I totally get why people don't like the level cap, I wish it was a toggable option. I'm sure some people love it and it makes you play differently to compensate the lack of grinding, but it really brings down the game for others.
Dynast King's Mead is mandatory IMO.
It's a JRPG trope to hold on to items because "this expensive and/or rare thing is going to be useful now, but what if I need it later?!" and end up with dozens of copies of it in the end-game lol. I think a lot of players who are struggling with this game are bringing that particular bad habit into Tactics Ogre. Around Chapter 2-ish I finally figured out that I'd rather burn a couple of low-level healing items instead of burning Blessing Stones _plus_ healing items lol.
The funny thing is that there's an infinite money exploit when you get the blowgun crafting options. I ended up using it and it didn't make missions any easier, but it did enhance the game significantly by minimizing the item and equipment micromanagement nonsense. Your item slots are still limited, so it's not like you can just spam healing or debuffs that you have 999 copies of; instead you manage them per battle similar to grenades or medikits in XCOM. And I don't see people complaining that XCOM's limited-charges-per-mission style items are breaking the game or make them easy lol. Even without the crafting money exploit it's not that hard to get cash in this game. One complete run of Phorampa Wildwood will get you enough coins and drops to sell for the low six-figures even in Chapter 2. Just set the team to AI and go do some household chores or something.
As for the Union Level mechanic, I didn't mind the mechanic so much per se, but at first I found it annoying that I can get 15k+ EXP from a story battle, end up using only 400 EXP, and then 10k of those will be converted into a Charm that is equivalent to just 200-400. But eventually I realized that EXP isn't really that hard to get in this game. Just do Training on AI with zero risk, or again Phorampa if you want to get money and crafting drops while you're at it, and in half an hour the entire team is back up to the Union Level. For me getting most of the team at or within 1 level of the cap is convenient signal to just resume the story.
@@midwesternspectre I started using blue dragons instead, but yeah, break + fear will melt anything.
Once you get access to them, there is almost no reason (besides insufficient funds maybe) not to be running the 50% or 75% health potions on every character. Typically by that point in the game, those potions will be multiple hits outside of the biggest nukes.
Imo the difficulty is overrated and people overreact about the level cap but you definitely shouldn’t sleep on items and debuffs.
Absolutely loved tactics ogre reborn. Was hooked. Grinding is still useful in this game to learn new abilities and money. Not being able to grind past the level cap keeps it balanced and tough. I loved that. I plan to go back now and do some end game stuff. Hopefully we get ff tactics remaster too! :)
I absolutely love Tactics Ogre. I love the PSP version & I'm really loving playing the remaster on both Switch & PS5. Now I hope that Square-Enix next remaster or remake Final Fantasy Tactics. I would love to see Square-Enix bring back Yasumi Matsuno to make an all-new Tactics Ogre or Ogre Battle game hopefully in the near future.
I would love to see them bring back FInal Fantasy Tactics
@@tevinnanton9332 Amen.
@@tevinnanton9332 They will at least remake WotL
I mostly want a new ogre battle. Imagine how many squads you can form with today's technology. Far more than the 200 unit cap back in the day.
@@thelegacyofgaming2928 Right!!!
I loved this game. I didn’t find it that difficult apart from the final battle, which was insanely difficult for me, and some of the post game CODA content.
yap same, game was a breeze up until that final boss, crazy.
i rage quit there lol
I enjoy the final boss fight. I find it really creative like the difficulty is "player's own making" lol.
Favorite game of all time. It's depth is unparalleled. It's replay value unparalleled. Genius. And the Music is brilliant too.
Once you clear, you can go back to the main chapter selection areas (with wheel of time) with your party level and items intact. So you can become overleveled and explore alternate routes, pick up stuff that you maybe missed (sorry Dame Ravness) and learn the way your choice to do, or not do something changes the political landscape.
Og version was super simple because of over leveling, but this feels more real in the sense of a continental war, where armies are evenly matched, and the tactics play out in the story, and then you execute the battle plans.
I had the same experience than you. I really wanted to like it, I pushed through the final dungeon, but, man, I was already bored by it. I would have push through without the level cap and a way to benefit from grinding different classes. I just saw that freaking labyrinth at the end, the Palace of the Dead and all those maps, and that was it. I started to play Harvestella for a while and had more fun in it.
I don't have time for it anymore. Like you said, 30-40 minutes by maps is really long when you have 11 others map to do !. Sometimes, you have to accept that a game is not meant for you, even if you liked it.
Great video :)
I don't know what the remaster team was thinking with those changes.
There are so many factors stacked against players in this version that make the PSP version look like checkers in comparison.
Limited item and spell loadouts mean that resurrecting characters mid battle is far more restricted, which is insane, essentially turning the wheel of fate mechanic into a necessity, instead of an optional difficulty balancer like it was in the PSP version.
Combined with the level limiter, they turned one of the most punishing TRPGs of all time into an absolute meat grinder.
I've been trying to get my friends into that game for well over a decade, and foolishly thought Reborn would be the version they could finally attempt, thanks to it's availability on so many platforms...
Thanks Square Enix... 😔
Proud of you for reaching the Hanging Gardens at least ;p I loved Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together on PSP, and Reborn is an even better revitalization with practically all changes being worthy improvements on the progenitor of the greatest SRPGs. No such thing as perfection, but with LUCT's story and enriched strategizing, I'm in love all over again. 10/10 Reborn.
I agree and the union level actually forces you to rely on your strategy not brute force your way through the game.
i agree erick
i love this game, but it pisses me off how people tell other players to "get good". I dont play video games for a challenge, or to get good. I play for fun and to escape real life challenges.
im busy "getting good" in real life.
forcing the player into needless challenges in video games is popular these days because most teens and young adults have been pampered in the past 30 years.
thats why they seek these imaginary "trophies" in video games and challenges.
if i want to be challenged, ill PUT DOWN the controller and live life
What I wish they'd do is just remove all experience points, if they want to put a level cap. What's the point in exp if the game has decided your stats relative to the enemy? Not much. It's just an illusion. Just keep your strength at level 1 and enemies at level 4 the entire game and it would be no different. Being at lvl 57 with the last boss at lv 60 is no different than being at level 1 but the final boss at 4. Other than optics and inflated damage numbers.
This game is up there with Xenogears and Final Fantasy 6 for me. Fantastic story, Crazy depth. Great gameplay.
I bought this game on release, installed it, but i have not yet actually played it because I KNEW that I was in for something kind of crazy that was going to melt my brain lol
I like knowing both the original which was PSP for me and the new version are in the collection.. But they may have to wait til I retire to 100% hahaha
@@Mintcar923 Yea I spent 400+ hours in PSP version as a teenager, no way I can do that again until I get like a vacation or something 😂
@@thelegacyofgaming2928 This is why I love anything in the strategy gaming family.. So much replay value and no two battles are ever the same.. Incidentally although not RPG Civilization is my favorite game overall.. The only issue is time constraints..
and you shouldn't be bothered about base level cap.. for me it's reassuring to know that i'm in the right level to finish the map.. the only thing i need to think about is if i'm bringing the right set of class.. and you can still get job points to unlock usefull skills for different jobs..
See, I thought the level cap was brilliant because I think overlevelling is disgusting. This game's difficulty is probably the primary feature I love about it. It's a genuine mind bender as it puts you on a level footing with your opponents.
Props for giving it a fair shot. I didn't expect you to become a fan considering you're already not much of a fan of FFT either, but this is a game that deserves the attempt at least, and you gave it that.
As others have pointed out, the difficulty of the game is precisely one of the main things that draws a lot of us fans into this game, and one of the main things why I actually prefer this game over FFT. I still actually enjoy much more beating a map through wits over grind, I like the feeling of playing "chess" against the game, and because of that, the improved AI was actually something absolutely fantastic. Also, because of this, can't say I hated the game for having a level cap. I can definitely see how someone who prefers to grind levels would hate it, but I see it as the game challenge, and I did like the challenge. This is a game where having the same party over and over is suboptimal and part of the game is also choosing who you're sending into the battle.
Anothe subjective point I definitely disagree is the music. I actually find the soundtrack of this game absolutely amazing, not just a "gets the job done" soundtrack, and I also loved how you got comments from the composer/arranger about every single piece in the game. As a whole, I'm a fan of Hitoshi Sakimoto and his war music in games such as the Ogre saga, Ivalice Alliance games and Valkyria Chronicles.
I will agree that I did hate projectile trajectory up until Let Us Cling Together on PSP, but I didn't really mind it in Reborn because they added a much needed line of fire. It was actually pretty annoying before because sometimes you weren't sure if your magic or bullet would hit your enemy, a wall or your allies, but with a line of sight, I feel that problem is fixed.
As a whole, I would say in terms of gameplay this game falls behind Triangle Strategy for example, which the same kind of game but obviously more modern, but in terms of story this one's still unparalleled for me.
I'm not a particular fan of the art of this game, but I don't hate it either. I definitely prefer it over Triangle Strategy where character portrait alone told you if a character was good or evil.
This is a TACTICAL game above all, and I absolutely loved that.
I was also confused about the route I ended up on. I tried to answer as I would of I was in Denam's position, but ended up on Neutral thinking I was going for lawful. As it turns out "lawful" isn't lawful good, it's lawful evil, chaotic good, or true neutral. Still, I underatand the angle they were coming from.
what is that red monster at 6.13 marker?
I personally prefer GBAs Knight of Lodis. The form factor of the SP the long battery life. The medal system that makes even the same class very unique
How would you compare it to Triangle Strategy?
Could you give me good RPGs with brawler classes, like Tifa from ff, or Law from tales?
I am very new to Tactics RPGs. I quite literally 2 months ago borrowed FFTA2 on the DS from a friend to give the genre another go as I wasn't very fond of the complicated grid based battles. And you know what? I ended up falling in love with the gameplay, the cool classes and builds you can come up with. While I did not finish A2, I put a good 60 hours before wanting to check out more in the genre and came across this. So as a beginner and hesitant to get Tactics Ogre Reborn (as I heard it wasn't really beginner friendly) I ended up caving and bought myself a copy on special, the game has been a blast, I haven't died or majorly struggled, there were very tough fights here and there but coming up with different class combos or recruiting monsters and building a team or making use of status effects.
That all being said, I really think you are missing the mark here a little bit regarding the level cap. I don't mind grinding, but I also don't mind the cap either way as you can beat missions fine with the right layout. I respect your opinion though it isn't for everyone, I more advise you to try different approaches to get a better perspective.
Sorry for the rant! I am just really having fun with this game and the POTD, getting strong haha!
Do we tell him about the 20 level differential in the last CODA?
Grinding is useful but not for XP. It’s for grinding your skills and get items to use for crafting. It’s just a different way of grinding.
Skill grind is capped at your look level and is only weapons. Money grinding, on the other hand, is essential.
How did Valkyrie Elysium and Dio Field turn out? Also Valkyrie Profile Lenneth? They all good?
Well Valkyrie Profile Lenneth is a port of the psp version which is a remake of the original Valkyrie Profile on Ps1 so is shouldn't be any different, I bought it by the way just haven't played it
The Classic one is quite easy if you Min Max Agi as there that stat is god as it can affect your hit and evade on both physical and magical attacks as well as the number of turns each charcater can take before the others. While the Psp you can grind skill levels to help with the game which is what I'm currently doing and will record and upload and test later. Reborn is currently quite buggy or so I hear with some problems in it's system not working as intended but many says that status effects that the enemy never use will help players progress in the game and you can still grind skill levels though that one is supposedly also tied to the level cap but it should give you an extra edge in battle. Glad you tried it at least sir.
I am glad you did a review of this game. For me I honestly liked everything in this game. The story pulled me in hard so good.
Game is amazing, as well as the soundtrack. One of the best gaming stories, with true branching paths. The union cap is also interesting design. Prevents the temptation for grinding, instead looking at optional strategic ways to approach battles.
Where better to start the adventure with this series from Tactics Ogre Reborn or Ogre Battle 64??
I love the union level. I wouldn't have had half the fun if I was able to grind my way through every hard mission.
Erick just popped up! Hi Erick. I love JRPGs. And you. (Platonically, just to be clear)
Even if you don't like this one, don't give up on the series. Tactic Ogre: Knight of Lodis is amazing
So, will you replay it one last, last time when an uncap mod gets done :) ?
I'm from the power gamer era of games back when I played Dungeons & Dragons Gold Box games, Wizardry, Ultima, Baldur's Gate II, Fallout 1 & 2, and so on. Difficulty is not a problem for me.
Same, and lack of difficulty = I lose interest in game very quickly. There's no fun in beating a game that isn't challenging to me.
I played all of the super hard games back in the day as well. I'm a bit over it now that I have a family and less time to devote to games. I'd prefer to either have an easy mode or be allowed to grind a bit. I like games more for the story than the challenge. When I heard this was coming out I assumed it was going to be closer to the earlier releases in gameplay, not this level cap crap.
@@philipwhite2639 That's your problem. The world can't conform to your standards just because you simply can't anymore. This game is simply not made for you in mind like how Souls games aren't made for people like you either. 🤷
@@doublestarships646 And they don't have to. I simply won't be giving them any more money. Just stating what I like, not what someone should do. There are a lot of great games that give options for people to enjoy games in the way I mentioned while still having hard modes for those that like them.
@@philipwhite2639 None of them are game of the year either lol.
What kind of "SRPG fan" prefers grinding to actually figuring out the best tactics and strategies to beat a game?
The lack of grinding is really weird.
I love most of the additions to the game, but the Level Cap and Status Card systems that were added to the game make it a worse experience overall. I think the PSP version is as close to the definitive version to me as I'll get, despite not having voice acting.
As for Matsuno, I don't think he was involved with many of the battle system changes in Reborn. He was mostly a consultant for much of the game's process. The battle director this time was a man named Takahashi Naoyuki, and the director was Katano Takashi. I'd say if anything, the "blame" would lie with one of them.
As a fire emblem veteran and someone who has only ever plays ffta on gba. This game is easily one of the greatest I’ve ever played. Got almost 7 days on here. The grind and the strategy is a pleasure
Does the psp version have lvl cap ?
Why didn't they make the level cap an option in the settings ? They should, but probably won't.
I think your rant about the level cap made me want to play the game, I hate doing side-quests and then find myself wrecking the main story bosses. Kills the fun of the game when that happens, when i get overleveled i find it hard to finish the game cause i get sleepy when i don't have to pay attention to win, then I just stop playing the game
Nice to see this video. I used to watch your videos a lot but forgot to ever subscribe. I love Final Fantasy tactics and always heard that Tactics Ogre was better but never got to play it. While I did like it, I agree a lot with some of the things you mentioned. The level cap thing always being lower than your enemies levels is a pain. I also hated Palace of the Dead. I suffered through it until about the 75th floor when I asked myself "I already beat the story, why am I doing this?" Over all, I did really like it and it's cool to see things that inspired stuff that I liked in FFT, but I do like FFT better.
I agree with the level cap problem. From a narrative standpoint, it makes no sense. I'm deep into chapter 4 and the vast majority of battles yield zero leveling up.
I totally agree with "what the f.k ive to do with hardwall difficulties to go forward". Im also have enough "backdoor tactics" in real life. 😅
It's a STRATEGY game that challenges you and gets your brain working. "I wanna grind so I can be overleveled and destroy everything". That tells everything right there.
You know to get to the end of the Game, which he did, he still would have had to do the solo battles, the battle against Ozma, the Gnapp battles.
He didn't just look at a review lmao. This is a 100+ hour point of view.
@TheDarkdevil470
The game isn't *that* hard, especially when making the most of the Chariot Tarot. Playing blind i can understand a playthrough taking a while, but when you strategise properly and don't kneecap yourself by barely optimising the class system, and very obviously not the crafting system, the game is very fair. And he's complaining about a lack of grind when that's what that first Dungeon he complains about is for. There's minimal level grinding sure, but there's plenty of gear and reward potential for those who want it. Not to mention, this game literally has an auto-battle feature, making said grinding very time efficient on you.
@@The_Hanged_Man_Arcana Right, and basically the game was too hard for him, which is fine. I don't agree with a lot of the negative points though. For example, he complained that arrows had trajectories that you had to play around. I personally love that. Terrain, height, and even weather matters. Adding the level cap forces the challenge of testing classes, weapons, spells, and is a great way to teach you about the need for diversity along the way. He wanted to totally shut his brain off and just have an overleveled/overpowered squad just 1 shot everything. Good thing he didn't get to the last boss then....The beauty is if he wants to grind and exploit classes to make an unkillable party of gods, then that's there for him too late game.
Yeah it's a shame that he didn't like the Union Cap because it was a very important feature. Ogre Battle games have historically been too easy to break by over-grinding, this was a nice way to fix one of the series' biggest issues.
"Grimdark fantasy war setting" doesn't work that well when every mission/battle is a steamroll.
Yea, you pretty much have so many strats available to deal with the game, go full blown beastmaster and have a ton of dragons, have a really powerful frontline that pincer attack enemies to pulp, have a ton of mages that status effect everyone so bad that the big bads are busy fighting their own charmed units while mages barrage em with magic, etc, etc, etc.
The only strat that's not available is overgrinding your level and powering through everything. Which, is a turn off to casuals.
the levelling block is not present in the PSP version(one vision mod is the way to go now)
I respect your opinion, but, in my opinion, a lot of the difficulty problems that players face are not about the level cap, but about the structure of your party.
You will HARDLY win all battles with a fixed party of 12!
The game allows you to have multiple characters just so you can have specific groups for each task (and this can be worked around by changing your main group's class as well). In the case of the battle against the phoenix griffins, you need characters with debuffs (terror knight for fear + breach), dragoons (with the skill to destroy beasts for the whole party and herself) and also mages for debuffs (in special: poison and charm). Also, don't underestimate the use of items, they are just for battles like this!
The level cap is for you to find other tools to win besides the OVERPOWER LVL 999 GO GO GO!!
Out of curiosity, do you know what was the biggest complaint from players in the original version of this game? The amount of FARMING LEVELS you need to do to win battles. Ironic isn't it?
Thank you for commenting this!
FYI for the readers: if you are reading this, Coffee Potato and Warren Report are a Tactics Ogre/Ogre Battle enthusiasts. Their YT channels cover this franchise in detail. Their content is very with the watch.
Wow, that union level cap should be a feature for “hard mode”. I have to admit I still have yet to finish my PSP copy of this game because it was difficult for me too.
psp version was stupidly easy once you got access to some of the broken classes like ninjas.
I read online about how they changed the game and knew the remaster wasn't for me. Watching your video cements that.
I'm 75% through the psp version. Really need to finish it. The psp version can be broken with archers and ninjas, so I only use 1 of each.
You gave the game a go. Everything isn't for everybody. Thanks for recommending alliance alive. That's the second game I bought on your advice that I enjoy.
I ended up beating this version of the game but I agree with Erick's review. Not only did this game cap the level but they also made it a TON of work to even upgrade your equipment. If you want to get better equipment you have to grind dungeons and side quests so the shop can stock new items. I got through the entire game fairly easily until I got to the final boss and realized my party was WAY underprepared even though all my characters were at level 40. I then had to grind dungeons just to get a little bit better equipment to finish the game. Erik is right, if you have the time to beat the game, then you can but there's so many little things that make it aggravating. There's also NO CHECKPOINTS in the dungeon, so you can get 3-4 fights in and realize you need to resupply, but if you do that then you have to do the entire dungeon all over again. What a shame because it might be one of the best written video games ever but the story is overshadowed by how insane the balancing of the game is.
I've always wanted Tactics Ogre to be a HARD game, but adding a level cap was lazy and ruins the whole thing, I agree. There are late abilities that I want to use THROUGHOUT the whole story, and they completely take that away from us.
This is why, once the game started to click with me, since I noticed, like you, that those new mechanics weren't my cup of tea AT ALL, I dropped this remaster and started playing the PSP version with the One Vision mod instead. I had much more fun with it and finished the game. Great game, but I still prefered FFT. Let's hope Square-Enix won't ruin it too if they also decide to remaster it. I have no idea what they were thinking when they decided to put these awful mechanics in (the blue cards popping up everywhere which dictate most of your characters' efficiency [and good luck when enemies pick up good cards], the level cap, the removal of the skill points / ability lists, and the 4 spells + 4 items limit). One step forward, two steps back as usual, good job S-E... Erick, my bet is this video would have been a positive one if you had done the same and reviewed the PSP version instead. The better graphics, sounds and voice-acting aren't worth the awful changes, all this remaster deserves is a quick jab in its teeth.
I find the mechanics actually much more fun and less complicated than psp mechanics tbh. it was less reliant on items and i don't have to scroll through a bunch of skills and spells just to cast a spell. I also remember pressing meditate every single magic character on every single turn was annoying. I remembered playing it and felt weird that newly recruited character was as strong as Denam and then somehow my characters who had been in my party for a long time was super weak all because they had outdated equipment. oh, and Archers are OP af without any drawback whatsoever.
All of these were fixed in the remake, the ui is more neat and tidy, and the generic characters aren't just another cannon fodder into the meat grinder because if you lose a character, you're going to have to train a new recruit the same way. the game is clearly lot more balanced than archers spam PSP version, and that includes the limited skills and spells making it even more important for you to have a couple of wizards in your party for coverage rather than, again, archer spam and have one wizard have all of the spells. The distinction between wizards and archer are also prominent here. In PSP, outdated item wizard and archer can potentially deal 1pt of damage which doesn't make any sense for wizards, and I am glad they make wizards a more steady damage dealer. Archers do deal less damage than in psp, but they can deal a lot of damage but they relied a lot on blue cards. It might be bad for some people but I love this change because they make the class, and other classes, have a role and a purpose on the battlefield, like terrorknights are good, but they aren't as durable as knight in reborn unlike in psp where they were just all around good. So you have more reason for having a wide range of classes in your army rather than archer spam. Oh, and I am glad they get rid of spells that use items that you can only get in Palace of the Dead.
I do have some changes I hate, namely the union-level cap and the change to the crafting system. But I still love it, and a lot of the changes actually make the game more enjoyable for me than in psp
And I am pretty sure Erick said he did try to get into the previous version of the tactics ogre at the beginning, so I think he included the psp version in that, maybe.
An old handheld port being much better than the "definitive" modern remaster; classic Square Enix, lol.
I played it first time on PSX about 20 years ago and I love this game. Didnt played the remake thought.
I think I understand why the group level, but I think that could be a choice, like a hard mode.
And I am interested now that you say that this is hard, as I'm used to wipe clean all enemies on the older version (I grinded until lvl 50 as soon they allowed me to train. Even not doing, I know all the mechanincs all too well).
Try the Snes translated rom, this game has great story and you should see all routes. Will understand if dont want tought, It's really time consuming.
I'd be fine with it being a choice. I've beaten the game at this point and boss fights starting in chapter 3 stopped being fun and just started being a chore. I was fine with the level cap when the game did it in a fair manner, but getting bosses multiple levels above you starting with two damage buff cards and two MP Regen cards tossing off finishing blows or extremely damaging my magic every turn isn't fun, it's just draining. And I usually LIKE difficult games, I started off on NES games after all.
Interesting, I am really grateful for your review here. I've been on the fence with this game, hearing smaller and faster reviews elsewhere.
The JRPG nature and "Union level" seem to be at odds with each other. My guess it this is an attempt to force a more tactical gameplay versus brute force. The issue, for me, is that when one cannot deduce or get through those tactical moments then brute force becomes the option (level grinding). Taking that away from players could ruin an experience, for sure. Rolling back the turns to correct mistakes makes up for this a little bit... but the lost time is like trying to figure out a puzzle with no hints/helps. I'm not sure it makes up for the removal of the choice.
You don't have to grind in fact it even level caps you, just don't be an absolute dumbass and you can get past most battles
Dude you gotta play the game and see for your self or go see Coffee potato. That guy has the best reviews on this game and he proves his points by making actual videos about the game mechanics.
@@maxwellsope1080 I can dig that. If my reply made it sound like I was discounting the game on those merits, that's my mistake. I agree that while reviews are good, and helpful (and I do like Landon here a lot) there's no accounting for playing it yourself. I've enjoyed more "crap" games (as reviewed by many) than I ever thought possible. I loved Dark Cloud/Dark Cloud 2... most people then and (and now) hate it. Same with White Knight Chronicles, among others. Games are highly personal. I'll probably snag this, although given the reviews I would wait until I can find it at a reduced price given those reviews... that how I typically use reviews.
@@APyralis You can support the devs by buying the game afterwards if you pirate it. If you aren't sure whether you will enjoy it or not.
Yeah, the cap, and after that the game forcing you to grind.... man, that absolutely ruins my experience 😢
Not a bad game in the end, maybe someday I'll give it another try
The level cap is why I'll never get past the final battle of chapter 3. The enemies there are so OP and take in next to no damage from my attacks that even the best strategy doesn't help that much.
Lobbers with defense down and attack or magic down items. If it's law then you have to tarot until you knock the old guy off the pillar or use an auto-critical. Stay away from his casting range until you've dealt with the boss on the lower level. It's nasty but doable. You may need to do a little farming but having be at least one revive and a moderate healing item on everyone goes a log way.
I actually agree that the level cap was a bad idea, as it removes the freedom of choice in terms of becoming overleveled. However, you can still become overpowered by grinding stat charms, so that was the one saving grace for me.
Thanks, I had a feeling i shouldn't give this another try, spent allot of hours with it on the PSvita but never finnished it
Maybe it's because I started with FF Tactics that I've always had a difficult time stepping backwards to Tactics Ogre.
For me it's other way round, couldn't get into ff tactics after tactics ogre, gameplay felt worse in every way.
Yeah, I grew Up with FF tactics and other RPGs, but had the same experience going blind on this one, It just beat me to a pulp. Good thing i started Triangle strategy instead
@@benjaminprieto399 had a helluva good time with triangle strategy last year on hard mode... brutally challenging, but just the way I like it, make me work/think well for my victories!
Man I’m glad I love both FFT and TO. Able to treat them as a pair of titans that are both different but equally enjoyable.
Same for me, I had so much fun with FF Tactics and how you can benefit from changing jobs, that I felt dissapointed with Ogre. Execpt if I missed something, I didn't see much reasons for switching jobs on Denam and the others ( only the mage though, wizard or cleric if undead on the map)
Most of the experts recommending the chaos first then neutral then law lastly.
Doing Law first is okay also because Law Route gives you the best recruitables there.
Chaos because of Cressida OG character.
They should of implemented the option to have a level cap on/off via the option menu. 😏
I loved game. Played few times on snes, and a lot on PSP. Played Reborn, and I hate it.
When I learned that the game had japanese voice acting, I was in tears of joy. I could beat such great story with hearing my favorite voice actors.
But then... I find out about character customization, or more like LACK OF IT comparing PSP version.
Tying counterstrike skill to only two-handed weapons and block to one-handed. Is the blow I couldn't withstand.
Haha i didn't found it that hard... it's a healthy hard
Is there a TO mod with fresh new story?.
The music was *alright* ?!? Are you kidding me? Lol. To each their own opinion and preference.
I have trouble with tactical rpg's that just take sooo long to finish a battle, I have limited time to play games. I really want to like them, but I find when I hit a stage that beats me I just stop playing after the second or 3rd replay.
it's more like you decide to be lawful on your choices the more chaos it brings.. like choosing not to kill an evil character.. you just give him/her another chance to wreak havoc.. while making authoritarian decisions you are carving a more realistic path for peace..
I finished the psx version with GS, most for class as some requirement, make sense in lore but game wise are awful, like priest requires a certain lv but need to have killed 0 enemies.
My most fun was playing a route that would allow me to gain an amulet that makes char imune to al magic, and equipping it on a skeleton, endless troop, the rest stayed back with range weapon.
Yes things are blocked by terrain or people, but you can also use to advantage, i did a lot of throwing things outside the range by placing target in certain height and angle.
But it also follow the assine manthra of some route being way too hard because reasons, some chaos parts were so difficult that it made me use the GS for starter, so many scene and story change, make me curious, in my first run my sister was killed, on my second it did not happened.
i wont trade my FFT or vandal hearts1 for it one bit.
at least on the psx version, they knew the game was super hard, so they allow us to train troops as much we want, like later Bravely default did, you put a group of 10 of your vs another group of 10 to auto battle, was common to equip shield on everyone, turn the battle on and just leave the psx on and go to sleep.
So i must play it thank you for the review i was confused now i see more clear i truly thank you. Sorry for my bad grammar non native here
Your review is actually quite funny. On one hand you say you tried to get into it, so I assume you tried the old ones. On the other this one is "to hard".
Matter of fact, the original one on Snes and PS1 was very hard in the beginning unless you knew a few tricks, namely not use melee attacks if youre units are lower level then the enemies. Throw stones which levels your units up like crazy, until you reach one level below or the same level as enemies are, without the fear of punishing counterattacks. Another thing is, Tactics Ogre does not have a mechanic where you hit better the higher level you are... its the STATUS points that make the difference. And those you can raise by picking up Tarot Cards dead enemies leave or you can grind out special food when you auction monsters that raise status. Early game enemies love to attack Denam because if he dies its game over, so you try to pickup all Tarot cards with him, by act 3 he is so strong enemies stop to focus on him, lol. And the later you get in the game, the stronger you get, no need to overlevel.
The PSP version was WAY EASIER then the original game, but at the same time super grindy. You had to grind allot Skillpoints to buy the skills, and gather the crafting materials to craft the best gear. Tarot cards where around again, and though they gave less stats the game had allot more dungeons and opportunities to keep level. I played it for 600 hours and I didn't even do the other two routes, I just grinded like crazy.
In Reborn you still have Tarot cards that empower you, you can still grind out special food when you auction monsters and now you even have charms that raise status points and all three you can grind. Especially in Phorampa Wildwood.
Yes Reborn adds in more strategy, with those Power Cards that many bosses start with. It also down-levels you and make the enemies be a higher level then you are. But levels are not important in Tactics Ogre, the status points are important. Also at that point, you have so many opportunities to grind status points, get the best weapons, spells and classes.
Ideally you World Tarot back and first clear out all three routes gathering every character. Then you start grinding out Palace of the Dead for all the item drops in there, start to run into San Bronsa to gather the best spells(rank 2 summons) and then do CODA. At the point you do CODA you are supposed to have great setups and stats don't count as much because you run in with way better gear and spells then the enemies.
The level cap... is unimportant, but I get it... you heard many people complain and you parrot them.
I did a Chaos route no incapacitation + no Tarot run (even tough they removed the title for not using Tarot) on my first playthrough of Reborn. Granted it is much harder than the PSP remake, but save from about four really tough battles the game wasn't really that hard, counting the last boss, which I found it easier to beat with Denam soloing.
If you found this game that hard even if you were allowing for incaps and using tarot then you must have been doing something terribly wrong.
This is my first srpg besides FF tactics. Unicorn overlord is one of my favorite games of recent years, and I have always loved CRPGs and basically all rpg games in general, but yeah this game is ridiculously hard. I got beat down by the necromancer in the beginning but I finally beat him. Didn't even realize I had a bunch of skills not equipped, and I had like no healing leaves or blessing stones. Once I actually outfitted well I finally beat him. I don't hate the game but idk if it's for me. I distinctly remember FF tactics being way easier LOL
The final boss is just super unfair, the boss not only copy all your deploy units,worst of all it copy all your equipment as well. I almost rage quit coz i get almost all the finest magic and summon and the equipment at that point, only to be copied by final boss lol. But thank God i found the tricks to beat him,only deploy 4 or 5 of your finest unit to take him down, that way you can go straight down the boss fairly easy without beating all the copy that in the way.i agree with you on level cap, it's useless. At the end of the day, i really enjoy the game more than i thought.
I beat the game on the psp and o man.. what an ending.. and the last soundtrack at the end is still in my head and gives me chills..
Masterpiece, 10/10.
You may not have noticed, but you do get "Experience charms" if you cant get any from a battle, that you can use on low level recruits or whoever later when the cap is raised. I HATE the level cap as well. I think everyone does. But once you get to max union level, that;s really when the game gets fun. In fact, people say the game doesnt really start until you clear it once and open up the time-travel chariot.
Please review chained echoes! I am enjoying the game and because you cannot grind to gain stat boosts or levels it really reminds me of Chrono Cross. It has been challenging and fun and I am curious of your opinion.
I see that you didn't like the level cap, but didn't Chrono Cross also have the same thing with level stars?
Why is this a fatal flaw in Tactics Orge Reborn but not in CC?
I bet he'd have an easier time if he knew about the infinite money loop where you can make an item and sell it for more than it cost to make in order to afford 100's of the best healing potions. It makes most battles a cake walk because most characters can soak up several hits before popping one potion back to max hp.
Popping pills or potions is no way to live your life, son. You clean up your act.
Until bosses with four cards doing finishing moves every turn one shot you. There's difficult then there's bull.
I just went to phorampa woods and grinded every time my union level went up. With the money I made there I bought healing potions and resurrection items for my characters. Kinda had my optimal first party then leveled up my second and third characters. Sure it took awhile.. but money wasn’t a problem. I personally love the game. True there are some hard battles.. but I felt the chariot deck helped . Also unless your fighting undead. Leave the clerics at home. Healing items are often better
@@palladiamorsdeus The bosses are coded to not move unless they have someone in range so just stay out of their range and collect cards then one round bosses with multiple finishing moves.
The remaster looks decent but I still thought it was awful. The level scaling/cap is crap. I felt the same way as you. Too difficult.
Your criticisms of this title are valid. Personally, the insane challenge appeals to me, but the cheap trick of capping the units' levels is sloppy and amateur. It didn't make one difference to me..
I just used Phorampa dungeon to farm stat cards and goth. By the time I was in chapter 4 my Denam, Canopus, Guildas, Mirdyn and Ravness all had stats of a unit about 10 levels higher.
They may have tried to make the grind nearly impossible, but they failed.
Best rpg i played last year by a mile.
Your passion is infectious lol
Was looking forward to hearing your perspective. I love this game and played on PS1, PSP and now poured many hours on Reborn but In spite of that I agree with your criticism. The final dungeon was a hurdle that I never managed to overcome, as like you said it required you to strategize life 🤣
Don't forget, there is an auto battle system in place, and will a lil optimisation, getting through those Dungeons doesn't have to be a slog at all.
@@scarybubblegum5100 that would be a great tutorial and video. I was able to do it at Potd but not for the hanging gardens
@sergiomessias3691
Hanging Gardens isn't too much harder battle-wise if you optimise your party a bit. Then as long as you equip the skill Siege to your units, they can't die to the Pits either - that tripped me up in my 1st playthrough
Law is definitely more evil than chaos in this game despite the name..
Completly agree with your critigue but I enjoy it on my switch lite and yes it will never reach the final fantasy tactics status for me but it is pretty close🤔🙂
Also you need a dragoon to take care of those beasts in the hanging gardens
I thought the Reborn remake would improve the QoL but by the sound of that I'll stick to the PSP version then, which I am currently replaying.
great review like always :)
I agree with how bad the level cap is. If they make a level cap they should give a level slider. Or an item that can take away exp to level down. Said item can also give exp.
I like how fair and honest your reviews are. Sucks you couldn’t finish it. I hope I have a better experience when I get to it
I wouldn't call this fair and honest, given that he clearly states how what this game offers is not what he wants in a game but still proceeds to call it stupid and badly designed.
How is his review fair?. The guy is not using a single dragoon and then complains about beasts. The guy says monsters are hard to recruit when all you need to do is buy a beast tamer from the shop and use their tame/subdue abilities on beasts/dragons with 10% hp left for a 30-35% chance to recruit. Now how hard is that?. He talks about strategy and how that's tedious when all you need to do is use some items and use specific classes for the respective challnages. Like using dragoons vs beasts/dragons or using flyers to assassinate a boss with low defence or using archers to eliminate their AOE mages or using ninjas to cross water and heights to get to the boss early to save time. There's also a trick in the game for infinite money just make dart blowguns and sell them for profit. Any blowgun crafted can be sold for more money then what it costed to craft.
Level cap or not is a personal gaming philosophy thing. As long as you face your philosophy honestly then it’s good. That being said, I may skip the secret dungeon as well but I only curse the developer for underexpected content due to lack of money/time/team management etc.