The Gospel is truly a beautiful good news... to that one percent of the population who is going to be saved, to the rest of the 99% of people it is a horrifying news to the worst proportions.
@@nikokapanen82 no it is good news they dont have to praise God all thru eternity. Cupcake. The problem arises when they find out God gave them everything they had their life bodies time health.. They never produced 1 iota of anything important.
My thoughts exactly. Romans 1 and 2. God reveals Himself through creation and His laws through our moral conscience. There will be no excuses on the judgement day.
@@thomasnorton4610 they did not revere Him as God nor did they even give thanks to Him. Seems like a small thing to do for the maker of all things and the source of everything good and anything good coming from us or to us.
“For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.” Titus2:11-14 THE GRACE OF GOD HAS APPEARED UNTO ALL MEN
Jessy Jones...the Gospel has not appeared to ALL men.....its appeared to ALL the Elect because they are now saved....BUT ALL men have not heard of Jesus.....I dont think your verse helps....Romans 1 explains it....it says that the creation makes all men without excuse....
Genesis 18 v 25 teaches that God will do right. When it comes to the question of those who have "never heard" we need to acknowledge that God will do right by them. Our responsibility , as Christians, is to get the Gospel out to as many as we can.
I think your answer is the best one that I have ever seen on youtube on this subject. We can't tap around or deny that some have had not had the opportunity hear the Glorious Gospel.
Salvation comes through hearing the Word of God. That is, God applies the Word to the hearts of those whom He wishes to save, making them born again. If a person lives and dies without ever hearing anything from the Bible, that is clear evidence that he is not one of God's elect. Remember, God is sovereign in salvation (Romans 9:15-16). Also, absolutely nobody deserves salvation. Those who were not chosen by God to become saved will have to pay for their sins. This is justice, and not at all unfair.
@@laylascott6096 That’s calvinism for you. They twist the bible to fit their exclusive theology of elect and reprobate. They are anti-human, because they believe humans are totally depraved and hate God naturally.
Well Abraham believed God according to the promises and new revelation God gave him in Genesis 12 and 15. Prior to Moses, no Scripture was written, but mankind was responsible for what God had revealed. Throughout the Old Testament, believers came to salvation because they believed that God would someday take care of their sin problem. Today, we look back, believing that He has already taken care of our sins on the cross (John 3:16; Hebrews 9:28). Peter and the other disciples did not know the full truth, yet they were saved because they believed that God would take care of their sin problem. They didn’t exactly know how He would accomplish that, any more than Adam, Abraham, Moses, or David knew how, but they believed God. The only way of salvation is the gospel of Jesus Christ (John 14:6; Acts 4:12). General revelation can be seen as a universal call for people to acknowledge God’s existence. But general revelation, by itself, is not enough to lead a person to salvation in Christ. That is why it is so important for us to proclaim the gospel throughout the whole world (Matthew 28:19-20; Acts 1:8). Romans 10:14 declares, “How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them?” Faith in the good news of salvation through Jesus Christ is the only means of salvation (John 3:16).
@@rocketsurgeon1746 totally false The elect are the remnant brands plucked from the fire. No bible in your creepy dishonest strawman Like all bible hating false cult members
@@iacoponefurio1915 we just met. How do you know that? Why are the majority of calvs so hateful and arrogant toward christians? Watch a debate on romans 9 and your other misunderstood verses
Humans are not owed anything. We do not deserve reconciliation. We are not the center of the universe nor the center of the Gospel, YHVH salvation. YHVH Elohim God does not cater to cupcake Disney World human ideas of so-called fairness. Let the heavens Rejoice! Let the earth be glad!... For the Lord Adonai comes, to judge the earth he will judge all the peoples in rightoeusness.. Psalm 96 v 12 & 13
I always thought that during the 1000 year reign of Christ, all those who never heard the gospel would have that opportunity. There is no scriptural basis for this idea. Just my humble opinion.
Romans 1:19-20 English Standard Version 19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.
I talked with a few of my Catholic friends recently and their faith is veering significantly towards inclusivism. The 2012 edition of the Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches inclusivism: that nonbelievers who act sincerely and morally can be saved as well.
I'm fairly new to reformed theology. Can someone explain how if some are chosen before the foundations of the earth, and God's grace is effectual, as RC Sproul stated, how can some of the elect never come to faith? Or am I misunderstanding?
Hello, saw your comment and I think if you look up what theologians call "the golden chain of redemption/ the golden chain of salvation" or even type in the Order of salutis you may find some clarity for your question. Hope this helps.
@@thepilgrimspassage5291 thank you, I will look this up. I was brought up Arminian and just within the last year have been studying the reformed theology, and as a few months ago have started going to a reformed church. It is still hard for me to grasp some of this, and sometimes I fear I am questioning God too much about all this, but I really am just seeking to understand it all.
🤔 Have you studied Romans? Please read closely Ro.8:28-39 Think about Noah & the flood....Noah was called a "preacher of Righteousness" yet how many entered the Ark? How many were saved. Man is born with an inherent rebellion against God. In John 3, we are told that we can NOT even see the "kingdom of God" UNLESS we are "Born Again"(or from above)....so in the passage in Romans you see that whoever God calls, he also provides the faith to believe...HE does all the Work(see Eph. 2:8-10)....so, the only possible "elect" that may not respond to the Gospel are the unborn & children that have not come to a place of understanding & responsibility. The LORD knows the ending from the beginning😉❤️
impossible to grasp - i sometimes wonder if GOD knows the heart and where it would go in the end IF THAT PERSON had all the proper tools and knowledge. A YOUNG CHILD may be an evil murderer once grown but ONLY GOD KNOWS THIS - all we can see is that sweet innocent baby.
There is a much more simple answer for this. Romans 1 and 2. Everyone knows God through creation and good and.evil through our moral conscience. Also as mentioned here, God is just and doesn't owe anyone anything. Nor does He need anyone for anything. Those who seek will find or knock and the door will be opened as the Lord said. So those who can be saved, will be saved. God will get that information to them. The elephant in the room is that most people don't want God or think they need saving from anything.
@Trucker Pete, is Jesus knocking at the heart of the unbeliever? Rev. 3:20 is usually used by evangelists as an appeal to the unconverted. It isn't. In Rev. 3:20 Jesus is directing His remarks to the church.
@@festushaggen2563 Trucker Pete.........who are the 7 letters in Rev written to? 7 churches. When reading scripture the rule of hermeneutics ( interpretation) is what is the context of the verse. What is the context, Pete? Laodicea is the church of the closed door. Philadelphia is the church of the open door.
@@carmensiekierke3579 OK. So you believe that God wants most people in Hell without a choice or say in the matter. That He created them to be condemned for eternity. I don't see that the Bible says that at all.
the irony is that the bottom line of reformed theology is that the elect are elect and the non-elect are non-elect that's unchangeable so to hear these guys talk about spreading the gospel yet their whole systematic contradicts that it just blows me away.
Study Romans 2. Godfrey tried to preemptively defuse the opposing view by first bringing up his interpretation of Romans 2 and how Romans 3 says ALL fall short of the glory of God and thus refutes the plain reading of Rom 2. To anyone reading this, please go back and give an honest read of Rom 2 and I think you will find the answer to this video’s question.
I just heard many words any thoughtful person will conclude on while being fair rationally. Problem is that it has happened (people who were unfortunate to get acquainted with the gospel before demise). Not what happens to those who haven't heard but where are the people who didn't hear the gospel before they died?
What about the idea that Pastor Erwin Lutzer promulgates; God will judge us based on what we did with what we knew. NONE of us know ALL the fine points of scripture.
Can you elaborate? I don't think Lutzer believes that people can be saved apart from the grace of God working through the gospel alone. Are you implying otherwise? Thanks
@@trevortheclever1689 Well no. I’m definitely not saying he promotes salvation thru ANY OTHER than Lord Jesus Christ. No, the best I can do is tell you what Pastor Lutzer has taught about people who have never heard the gospel. People in remote villages and the like. That God will consider what they did in their life with what they knew about our savior. God has put the stamp of eternity on our hearts and He shows himself in nature. People living an agrarian lifestyle are literally surrounded with God day in day out. They may feel his presence but never have seen or heard scripture. It sure made sense when Pastor Lutzer explained it!
@@nickgironda8932 Doctor Lutzer affirms the Doctrines of Grace. He is a so called 5 point Calvinist. However he is also Baptist and does not agree with Infant baptism. Which is a mostly trivial issue.
It is a small number of people! Dont imagine like nowadays. The population census by Herod proves that the number is small, if the gospel is preached to these few, they don't believe it, what's the point of reporting it?
To me, it is simple, and I hope I'm not wrong. From a reformed perspective, God will not lose anyone whom he chose before the foundation of the world. So, if someone never heard the Gospel, they were never chosen in the first place. They will be judged based on their sins, which we all commit. We ALL commit sins, and we know they are sins. In principle, people don't seek after God (clear in Romans 3). So, when they die in their sins, they are simy getting justice.
Why is it urgent to take the gospel to everyone if they are elect and cannot resist God? And the others are lost anyway, so we can't change that. What am I missing?
@@paulinaoosthuizen so, you think only certain people are chosen for salvation before they are born? And no amount of preaching the Gospel to someone can change that?
They already have been. Both the psalmist and the Son informed us that the verdict is in: all are found wicked sinful and direct rebellion against the authority of our maker who gave us everything. We found to be completely devoid of any conciliatory thoughts or behavior. We do not even seek after God nor acknowledge Him nor even give thanks to Him. Not a single one. And so YHVH has laid on HIM the iniquity of "us all".
@@uncasunga1800 Good Calvinist. You're limiting God to His own creation, time. He's outside of time. He doesn't need to be the tyrannical deceiver of Calvinism, who deceives you into believing that you have a choice to make, which Calvinism states was made for you already, for which you will be judged. Except for those who desire Him to be the lying tyrant. Who's the deceiver? Who's the father of lies? Seems to be the god of Calvinism? The Father and Son and Holy Ghost is outside of time, he sees what happens on the First day, the Last day and every day in-between. He chooses you before the foundation of the world or rejects you then already, because He sees your choices then that you willingly make now, six millennia later.
@@JFDSmit-rm6tw That's not the God of Scripture...you describe a limited God...not the Sovereign King! Foreknowledge and his decrees? Look that up:) Happy studying.:) ☺️
How were people who lived BEFORE Jesus to be saved if as you say, belief in and acceptance of Jesus as the Saviour and Sovereign God is the prerequisite for Salvation and Eternal life with God???
God knows who will accept Jesus Christ. God will get the good news to all, one way or another. What we do with it is then in our hearts, mind and soul: what to do with it? Look around! How can you not see God's mark, God's hand in it? We have curiosity instilled in us for a reason.
We don't want God to be "fair". He would havr cast Adam and Eve into hell fire instantly. You know what's unfair Christ dying for your sins, the only innocent man suffering for the guilty.
Fair would be And the books were opened: every man was judged according to every work we have ever thought done intended.. Unfair is Anyone whose name was found in the Lambs book of life was NOT thrown into the lake of fire, the lake of YHVH Elohim Gods eternal fury.
Love of God for all souls is revealed in Jesus Christ... For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. John 3:16-18 KJV
Why is this such a hard question for these men who say that they believe in the ELECT getting saved by believing in Christ....the answer is only the Elect need to hear the Gospel......how difficult is that? Whats the difference if the non Elect hear the Gospel or not...they cannot respond positively to it anyway!!! HELLO!!!! Sometimes these guys contradict their own beliefs?
If I go to court, the judge can convict me or acquit me or pardon me (hypothetically) whether or not I know his name. How many people in the Old Testament did not know Jesus Christ by name but they knew the man. An extreme example is Abraham who had lunch with Jesus in Genesis 18. Did Abraham know Jesus' name? Did Jesus tell Abraham about the cross? We don't know what conversation they had while they had lunch. As for the name "Jesus Christ," it is phonemes, it is not the man. His name is somewhat different in many languages all around the world. Again, it is phonemes, not the man. I believe a man can meet Jesus in the middle of the Amazon rainforest but might not learn his name. I know a man, a clerk in a store. I see him often and greet him when I see him but I do not know his name. Do I know him? Somewhat. These are just some thoughts I have - nothing dogmatic, by any means. Hopefully, I can elicit some meaningful discussion.
You’re barking up the wrong tree. Calvinists believe that the old fathers and prophets were in hell before Jesus’s harrowing. Even though the Jewish people had no such concept back in the days before Christ. It was never revealed in the old testament, and is entirely a new testament revelation.
@@theeverlastingman - The plainest telling of the gospel message in the entire Bible is in the Old Testament - Isaiah 53. I think your description of what you think Calvinists believe is ridiculous. I don't know too much about Calvinism but I don't think it is what you think it is. Does Calvinism deny Paul's telling us that Abraham was justified by faith? I don't think someone would consider *_justified_* Abraham to be in Hell.
@@theeverlastingman lying space cadet strawman. You have no idea what any of these terms mean. You need to repent and be born again. Avtually read the bible.
@@rubiks6 Gospel was plainly given by the prophets John the Baptist and the Son. Repent for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand: make your path straight so He will come to you.
@@uncasunga1800 - No mention of the cross? "Behold! The Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world." How does a lamb take away sin? What must happen to the lamb? Your gospel message is quite incomplete.
Only through Jesus means two things: 1. by believing in Jesus to get to God, and 2. by being judged by Jesus on His return. This I believe means, for those who never heard or got to understand Jesus, their hearts will be judged by the Grace of Jesus, so those of other religions who are good in heart and mind according to the teachings of Jesus (be it if they know about it or not) could be saved by the Grace of God through Jesus. And this refers to all of mankind from the old testament through to our future. This does not mean we should not spread the Gospel, by no means this means so; we are instructed to spread the Gospel because it's by knowing Jesus intimately to understand our sins, so that we may confess it to be forgiven, so that we are cleansed to receive the Holy Spirit in our lives to be closer to God; the absolute path in being certain of our forgiveness of sins. It is by the forgiveness of our sins that purifies us to allow the Holy Spirit to lead us, to feel the closeness of God in our experiences and in our lives on Earth. And for this we need to make an effort to seek God intimately, which is undoubtedly through the perfection of Jesus, hence the learning of the Gospels and acceptance of Jesus as our Saviour becomes our ultimate goal. I don't know much about the scriptures. I am a learner myself, but putting this out here to hear your thoughts and to gain more understanding. Thanks and God Bless you all!
This was a pretty bad explanation, laying up a burden on the church, a burden Israel did not have. We cast our burdens onto God and take Jesus yoke. When Rahab turned to God it was because of the works of God, not man. If we trust God we obey in making disciples, but it is God's calling not our own.
Romans 1:19-20 English Standard Version 19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world,in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.
Hell is anywhere without YHVH Gods favor. Just because He had a book written you are responsible for knowing its contents and is it your only way back to Him. You are wicked and evil and you cannot keep yourself alive or dead.
@@uncasunga1800 Hahahaha, God never had a book written that's crazy talk, and being responsible for knowing the content of mans books is definitely not a thing. And there is only one way to God friend and if you don'tknow that you're in big trouble! Honestly you should turn and run from whoever is teaching you this nonsense, it's poison!
@@uncasunga1800 Are you related somehow to the Spanish Inquisitors? They went one step further and required that you understand the Spanish language in real time.
@@HearGodsWord maybe what the poster meant is that the men who were giving the answer did not give a definitive answer, not that there is no definitive answer.
@@afterdarkness-light no one is owed forgiveness. The question is only born from a heart in Total rejection of God's word and God's righteousness. Man is ALREADY in sin: the verdict is in. ANY1 who believes not is condemned already.
A monumental failure of the church - us, since we are the church. The great commission. The spread the gospel and preach Christ crucified to everyone, everywhere. Find a way to open a door, just a crack, and it will open the way to expound on the gospel.
Thomas makes a good point. My white neighbours in London have not heard the Gospel, & they haven't had dreams. But Muslims in the Middle East, haven't heard the Gospel, but they have had dreams. Something doesn't make sense
When you say Muslims have dreams about the Gospel or Jesus, you mean 0.0001% of them, the rest of 1.8 billion of them do not see or hear anything. Tiny fraction of the population of people in Europe also hears and sees dreams about Jesus and get saved on a continual basis. So the reality is, salvation belongs to a tiny, less than 1% of the worlds population.
They sure caused you get so triggered you had to spend time whining about it hahaha. Truth triggers you tho you are a narcissist unaware of your own mortality and futility.
This GOD who you speak of is NOT the Creator of this universe. You guys are happy to be part of an exclusive cult that excludes people who could never have even heard of Jesus Christ, and yet you believe you have found the all loving, all righteous, all forgiving CREATOR!!! Your form of Christianity attributes to GOD characteristics that are of your own making.
Really?....😳🥴 so, from your words, I would guess that you only worship the God that appeals to your sense of fairness, rather than the GOD who inspired Scripture & declared Himself throughout. I would guess you love John 3:16 & 17, but totally ignore v18 & 36, nor have given much thought to John 3:3 that tells us that we CAN NOT even see the Kingdom of God UNLESS we are FIRST "Born from above" or as most say "Born Again", yet folks teach that we "chose" to be born again 🤔😳🥴 that is crazy!....but I did believe that for many years😉
We only exist by the mercy of God, viz: "If He should set His heart on it; if He should gather to Himself His Spirit and His breath, all flesh would perish together and man would return to the dust." [Job 34:14-15] You should be very afraid saying He did not create everything that exists. That makes you a fool, as scripture says, "The fool says there is no God."
More crazy incoherrnt rambling you dont even have a clue what these guys r talking about. You need to repent and be born again. You obviously have never read or understood Scripture.
The heavens declare the glory of God: the firmament the work of his fingers... But he gave them over to their unclean lusts, for they did not acknowledge or glorify God nor even give thanks to Him.
People who have "never heard" the Gospel actually have "heard, and can be saved, but it's not automatic. They would have to trust in the "unknown God" alone, whom they are aware of via general revelation. General revelation consists of the majesty of Creation, and the Conscience written into all human hearts. They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creation rather than the Creator. Had they worshipped and served the Creator instead, they would have been blessed forever. (Romans 1:25)
The urgency and need of God's people preaching and sharing the Gospel. How beautiful are the feet of those who bring the good news!
The Gospel is truly a beautiful good news... to that one percent of the population who is going to be saved, to the rest of the 99% of people it is a horrifying news to the worst proportions.
@@nikokapanen82 no it is good news they dont have to praise God all thru eternity. Cupcake.
The problem arises when they find out God gave them everything they had their life bodies time health..
They never produced 1 iota of anything important.
What about people living in countries that have banned the gospel?
Romans 1:19-20, "They are without excuse"
Amen. Romans 1:18-24 lets us know sinners know that God exists so they don't have an excuse when they stand before God.
My thoughts exactly. Romans 1 and 2. God reveals Himself through creation and His laws through our moral conscience. There will be no excuses on the judgement day.
They know about God. They simply suppress the truth in unrighteousness
@@thomasnorton4610 they did not revere Him as God nor did they even give thanks to Him.
Seems like a small thing to do for the maker of all things and the source of everything good and anything good coming from us or to us.
@@2timothy23 it says that it was God Himself who gave them over to their unclean lusts..
“For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.”
Titus2:11-14
THE GRACE OF GOD HAS APPEARED UNTO ALL MEN
THANK YOU
That's a really good verse for this topic. Thanks.
@@rubiks6 iron sharpens iron
@@waterheaterservices iron sharpens iron
Jessy Jones...the Gospel has not appeared to ALL men.....its appeared to ALL the Elect because they are now saved....BUT ALL men have not heard of Jesus.....I dont think your verse helps....Romans 1 explains it....it says that the creation makes all men without excuse....
Genesis 18 v 25 teaches that God will do right. When it comes to the question of those who have "never heard" we need to acknowledge that God will do right by them. Our responsibility , as Christians, is to get the Gospel out to as many as we can.
I think your answer is the best one that I have ever seen on youtube on this subject. We can't tap around or deny that some have had not had the opportunity hear the Glorious Gospel.
Salvation comes through hearing the Word of God. That is, God applies the Word to the hearts of those whom He wishes to save, making them born again. If a person lives and dies without ever hearing anything from the Bible, that is clear evidence that he is not one of God's elect. Remember, God is sovereign in salvation (Romans 9:15-16).
Also, absolutely nobody deserves salvation. Those who were not chosen by God to become saved will have to pay for their sins. This is justice, and not at all unfair.
Amen!
You have it so wrong, as does the entire church as a whole. This is not what the Bible says, at all
@@laylascott6096 Ephesians 1 very clearly teaches that God elected a people to salvation.
@@laylascott6096 That’s calvinism for you. They twist the bible to fit their exclusive theology of elect and reprobate. They are anti-human, because they believe humans are totally depraved and hate God naturally.
Well Abraham believed God according to the promises and new revelation God gave him in Genesis 12 and 15. Prior to Moses, no Scripture was written, but mankind was responsible for what God had revealed. Throughout the Old Testament, believers came to salvation because they believed that God would someday take care of their sin problem. Today, we look back, believing that He has already taken care of our sins on the cross (John 3:16; Hebrews 9:28).
Peter and the other disciples did not know the full truth, yet they were saved because they believed that God would take care of their sin problem. They didn’t exactly know how He would accomplish that, any more than Adam, Abraham, Moses, or David knew how, but they believed God.
The only way of salvation is the gospel of Jesus Christ (John 14:6; Acts 4:12).
General revelation can be seen as a universal call for people to acknowledge God’s existence. But general revelation, by itself, is not enough to lead a person to salvation in Christ. That is why it is so important for us to proclaim the gospel throughout the whole world (Matthew 28:19-20; Acts 1:8). Romans 10:14 declares, “How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them?” Faith in the good news of salvation through Jesus Christ is the only means of salvation (John 3:16).
I think that Titus 2:11 is a great verse for this discussion
God will have mercy on whom he will and he will harden those he will. Not only that, he places us where his elect can hear the gospel.
Why do the elect need to hear? It won't change anything, right?
@@rocketsurgeon1746 totally false
The elect are the remnant brands plucked from the fire.
No bible in your creepy dishonest strawman Like all bible hating false cult members
@@rocketsurgeon1746 youve never even known what true Christianity is.
@@iacoponefurio1915 can you point me to a verse about the elect being plucked, etc? Thanks
@@iacoponefurio1915 we just met. How do you know that? Why are the majority of calvs so hateful and arrogant toward christians? Watch a debate on romans 9 and your other misunderstood verses
His mercy endureth forever.
Humans are not owed anything. We do not deserve reconciliation. We are not the center of the universe nor the center of the Gospel, YHVH salvation.
YHVH Elohim God does not cater to cupcake Disney World human ideas of so-called fairness.
Let the heavens Rejoice! Let the earth be glad!...
For the Lord Adonai comes, to judge the earth he will judge all the peoples in rightoeusness..
Psalm 96 v 12 & 13
I always thought that during the 1000 year reign of Christ, all those who never heard the gospel would have that opportunity. There is no scriptural basis for this idea. Just my humble opinion.
Romans 1:19-20
English Standard Version
19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.
I talked with a few of my Catholic friends recently and their faith is veering significantly towards inclusivism. The 2012 edition of the Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches inclusivism: that nonbelievers who act sincerely and morally can be saved as well.
Better question is, what happens to those who do not share the person and work of Christ alone 🙏
2 John 1:6 KJB
Soli Deo Gloria ☝️
Man I miss R.C. and his pointed responses.
I'm fairly new to reformed theology. Can someone explain how if some are chosen before the foundations of the earth, and God's grace is effectual, as RC Sproul stated, how can some of the elect never come to faith? Or am I misunderstanding?
Hello, saw your comment and I think if you look up what theologians call "the golden chain of redemption/ the golden chain of salvation" or even type in the Order of salutis you may find some clarity for your question. Hope this helps.
@@thepilgrimspassage5291 thank you, I will look this up. I was brought up Arminian and just within the last year have been studying the reformed theology, and as a few months ago have started going to a reformed church. It is still hard for me to grasp some of this, and sometimes I fear I am questioning God too much about all this, but I really am just seeking to understand it all.
🤔 Have you studied Romans? Please read closely Ro.8:28-39
Think about Noah & the flood....Noah was called a "preacher of Righteousness" yet how many entered the Ark? How many were saved. Man is born with an inherent rebellion against God. In John 3, we are told that we can NOT even see the "kingdom of God" UNLESS we are "Born Again"(or from above)....so in the passage in Romans you see that whoever God calls, he also provides the faith to believe...HE does all the Work(see Eph. 2:8-10)....so, the only possible "elect" that may not respond to the Gospel are the unborn & children that have not come to a place of understanding & responsibility.
The LORD knows the ending from the beginning😉❤️
All of the Elect come to Faith. Day 1 kindergarten sunday school Haha.
@@sandman9390 the only reason YHVH knows the end is because He CAUSES it.
My purposes will stand and I will do all I please.
impossible to grasp - i sometimes wonder if GOD knows the heart and where it would go in the end IF THAT PERSON had all the proper tools and knowledge. A YOUNG CHILD may be an evil murderer once grown but ONLY GOD KNOWS THIS - all we can see is that sweet innocent baby.
All that the Father gives to Me will come to Me.
There is a much more simple answer for this. Romans 1 and 2. Everyone knows God through creation and good and.evil through our moral conscience. Also as mentioned here, God is just and doesn't owe anyone anything. Nor does He need anyone for anything. Those who seek will find or knock and the door will be opened as the Lord said. So those who can be saved, will be saved. God will get that information to them.
The elephant in the room is that most people don't want God or think they need saving from anything.
true
@Trucker Pete, is Jesus knocking at the heart of the unbeliever? Rev. 3:20 is usually used by evangelists as an appeal to the unconverted. It isn't. In Rev. 3:20 Jesus is directing His remarks to the church.
@@carmensiekierke3579 Is this a Calvinist "only the elect are saved and therefore God wants most people in Hell" argument?
@@festushaggen2563 Trucker Pete.........who are the 7 letters in Rev written to? 7 churches. When reading scripture the rule of hermeneutics ( interpretation) is what is the context of the verse. What is the context, Pete? Laodicea is the church of the closed door. Philadelphia is the church of the open door.
@@carmensiekierke3579 OK. So you believe that God wants most people in Hell without a choice or say in the matter. That He created them to be condemned for eternity. I don't see that the Bible says that at all.
Rev 20:11-15 tells us there is a second resurrection when people are judged by their works.
the irony is that the bottom line of reformed theology is that the elect are elect and the non-elect are non-elect that's unchangeable so to hear these guys talk about spreading the gospel yet their whole systematic contradicts that it just blows me away.
How Can I ask a question?
Get off your phone and actually talk to someone IN PERSON 😄
Millennials Wow
@@uncasunga1800 How about not judge and be more like Jesus
@@uncasunga1800 God calls us to love each other and he wasn’t even saying anything bad and you went after him. Why was that necessary?
Bunch of old man sitting in a circle dancing around question and the fact they really have no idea or have the fire to search out this answer.
Study Romans 2. Godfrey tried to preemptively defuse the opposing view by first bringing up his interpretation of Romans 2 and how Romans 3 says ALL fall short of the glory of God and thus refutes the plain reading of Rom 2. To anyone reading this, please go back and give an honest read of Rom 2 and I think you will find the answer to this video’s question.
What is the "plain reading" of Romans 2🤔?
No elect person falls within that category. God determines who is born where and when.
I just heard many words any thoughtful person will conclude on while being fair rationally. Problem is that it has happened (people who were unfortunate to get acquainted with the gospel before demise). Not what happens to those who haven't heard but where are the people who didn't hear the gospel before they died?
Repent and be born again.
What about the idea that Pastor Erwin Lutzer promulgates; God will judge us based on what we did with what we knew. NONE of us know ALL the fine points of scripture.
Can you elaborate? I don't think Lutzer believes that people can be saved apart from the grace of God working through the gospel alone. Are you implying otherwise? Thanks
@@trevortheclever1689 Well no. I’m definitely not saying he promotes salvation thru ANY OTHER than Lord Jesus Christ. No, the best I can do is tell you what Pastor Lutzer has taught about people who have never heard the gospel. People in remote villages and the like. That God will consider what they did in their life with what they knew about our savior. God has put the stamp of eternity on our hearts and He shows himself in nature. People living an agrarian lifestyle are literally surrounded with God day in day out. They may feel his presence but never have seen or heard scripture. It sure made sense when Pastor Lutzer explained it!
@@nickgironda8932 Thank you for clarifying!
@@nickgironda8932 Doctor Lutzer affirms the Doctrines of Grace. He is a so called 5 point Calvinist. However he is also Baptist and does not agree with Infant baptism. Which is a mostly trivial issue.
@@nickgironda8932 Paul describes plainly exactly what the psalmists wrote: all are without excuse.
NEVER EVER GIVE UP ON OUR LORD AND SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST,…….. WHY?,……. BECAUSE HE NEVER GAVE UP ON US,………. AMEN
It is a small number of people! Dont imagine like nowadays.
The population census by Herod proves that the number is small, if the gospel is preached to these few, they don't believe it, what's the point of reporting it?
God indeed is not bound to show mercy to any individual yet what do we see in scripture? That God is very merciful
To me, it is simple, and I hope I'm not wrong. From a reformed perspective, God will not lose anyone whom he chose before the foundation of the world. So, if someone never heard the Gospel, they were never chosen in the first place. They will be judged based on their sins, which we all commit. We ALL commit sins, and we know they are sins. In principle, people don't seek after God (clear in Romans 3). So, when they die in their sins, they are simy getting justice.
Why is it urgent to take the gospel to everyone if they are elect and cannot resist God? And the others are lost anyway, so we can't change that. What am I missing?
Because Jesus commanded us to take the Gospel into all the world.
@@paulinaoosthuizen so, Jesus wants us to do something even though it can't change anything?
@@rocketsurgeon1746 Yeah. Because He's Jesus. We don't question Him. Faith, brother. Move by faith.
@@paulinaoosthuizen so, you think only certain people are chosen for salvation before they are born? And no amount of preaching the Gospel to someone can change that?
Romans 2: 13-15. Those who are without the Law will be judged by the conscience. The conscience is God's spirit striving with Man.
thats interesting ......
They already have been.
Both the psalmist and the Son informed us that the verdict is in: all are found wicked sinful and direct rebellion against the authority of our maker who gave us everything.
We found to be completely devoid of any conciliatory thoughts or behavior. We do not even seek after God nor acknowledge Him nor even give thanks to Him.
Not a single one. And so YHVH has laid on HIM the iniquity of "us all".
The works of God were finished before the foundation of the world.
@@uncasunga1800 Good Calvinist. You're limiting God to His own creation, time. He's outside of time. He doesn't need to be the tyrannical deceiver of Calvinism, who deceives you into believing that you have a choice to make, which Calvinism states was made for you already, for which you will be judged. Except for those who desire Him to be the lying tyrant. Who's the deceiver? Who's the father of lies? Seems to be the god of Calvinism?
The Father and Son and Holy Ghost is outside of time, he sees what happens on the First day, the Last day and every day in-between. He chooses you before the foundation of the world or rejects you then already, because He sees your choices then that you willingly make now, six millennia later.
@@JFDSmit-rm6tw That's not the God of Scripture...you describe a limited God...not the Sovereign King! Foreknowledge and his decrees? Look that up:) Happy studying.:) ☺️
How were people who lived BEFORE Jesus to be saved if as you say, belief in and acceptance of Jesus as the Saviour and Sovereign God is the prerequisite for Salvation and Eternal life with God???
Saved by faith in the promised Messiah. So still saved by Jesus
You have heard so you personally need to repent and humble yourself
No one else will matter to you when it is your turn to answer.
God knows who will accept Jesus Christ. God will get the good news to all, one way or another. What we do with it is then in our hearts, mind and soul: what to do with it? Look around! How can you not see God's mark, God's hand in it? We have curiosity instilled in us for a reason.
nope he choose who will believe faith is God's gift to the elect
@@stuartjohnson5686 Yep he has to choose us we will NEVER choose Him.
We don't want God to be "fair". He would havr cast Adam and Eve into hell fire instantly. You know what's unfair Christ dying for your sins, the only innocent man suffering for the guilty.
Absolutely
Fair would be
And the books were opened: every man was judged according to every work we have ever thought done intended..
Unfair is
Anyone whose name was found in the Lambs book of life was NOT thrown into the lake of fire, the lake of YHVH Elohim Gods eternal fury.
Because all we like sheep had gone astray... And YHVH has laid on HIM the iniquity of us all.
As you said
that part always bothers me !
QUESTION NOT NOT ANSWERED!!!!
Where in the bible does it say that people will only be saved if they hear the gospel?
Jesus said that only through Him, one can get to the Father. To get to know Jesus you need to hear the Gospel.
You have obviously never read the bible 😆
Love of God for all souls is revealed in Jesus Christ...
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John 3:16-18 KJV
But this is not live??...
Why is this such a hard question for these men who say that they believe in the ELECT getting saved by believing in Christ....the answer is only the Elect need to hear the Gospel......how difficult is that? Whats the difference if the non Elect hear the Gospel or not...they cannot respond positively to it anyway!!! HELLO!!!! Sometimes these guys contradict their own beliefs?
The gospel is seen and heard more and more these days . The pride of a human is the danger , not that they haven’t heard the gospel I truly think.
The darkness we are born into has been made by God. Isaiah chapter 6.
He will gain the bride he paid the dowry for. No more no less.
Amen 🙏🏼
Agreed 💯 Sis
Blessings to you and yours🙏🏼✝️🙌🏼🔥⚔️👑
The real question is "What happens to people who die in their sins?"
Didn’t answer the question.
If I go to court, the judge can convict me or acquit me or pardon me (hypothetically) whether or not I know his name. How many people in the Old Testament did not know Jesus Christ by name but they knew the man. An extreme example is Abraham who had lunch with Jesus in Genesis 18. Did Abraham know Jesus' name? Did Jesus tell Abraham about the cross? We don't know what conversation they had while they had lunch.
As for the name "Jesus Christ," it is phonemes, it is not the man. His name is somewhat different in many languages all around the world. Again, it is phonemes, not the man. I believe a man can meet Jesus in the middle of the Amazon rainforest but might not learn his name. I know a man, a clerk in a store. I see him often and greet him when I see him but I do not know his name. Do I know him? Somewhat.
These are just some thoughts I have - nothing dogmatic, by any means. Hopefully, I can elicit some meaningful discussion.
You’re barking up the wrong tree. Calvinists believe that the old fathers and prophets were in hell before Jesus’s harrowing. Even though the Jewish people had no such concept back in the days before Christ. It was never revealed in the old testament, and is entirely a new testament revelation.
@@theeverlastingman - The plainest telling of the gospel message in the entire Bible is in the Old Testament - Isaiah 53. I think your description of what you think Calvinists believe is ridiculous. I don't know too much about Calvinism but I don't think it is what you think it is. Does Calvinism deny Paul's telling us that Abraham was justified by faith? I don't think someone would consider *_justified_* Abraham to be in Hell.
@@theeverlastingman lying space cadet strawman. You have no idea what any of these terms mean.
You need to repent and be born again. Avtually read the bible.
@@rubiks6 Gospel was plainly given by the prophets John the Baptist and the Son.
Repent for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand: make your path straight so He will come to you.
@@uncasunga1800 - No mention of the cross?
"Behold! The Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world."
How does a lamb take away sin? What must happen to the lamb?
Your gospel message is quite incomplete.
Amen 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
Romans Ch1 Verses 18 - 24 explains it perfectly 🙌🏼🙌🏼✝️✝️🔥🔥⚔️⚔️👑👑♥️
He is drawing from the Psalms..
Only through Jesus means two things: 1. by believing in Jesus to get to God, and 2. by being judged by Jesus on His return. This I believe means, for those who never heard or got to understand Jesus, their hearts will be judged by the Grace of Jesus, so those of other religions who are good in heart and mind according to the teachings of Jesus (be it if they know about it or not) could be saved by the Grace of God through Jesus. And this refers to all of mankind from the old testament through to our future. This does not mean we should not spread the Gospel, by no means this means so; we are instructed to spread the Gospel because it's by knowing Jesus intimately to understand our sins, so that we may confess it to be forgiven, so that we are cleansed to receive the Holy Spirit in our lives to be closer to God; the absolute path in being certain of our forgiveness of sins. It is by the forgiveness of our sins that purifies us to allow the Holy Spirit to lead us, to feel the closeness of God in our experiences and in our lives on Earth. And for this we need to make an effort to seek God intimately, which is undoubtedly through the perfection of Jesus, hence the learning of the Gospels and acceptance of Jesus as our Saviour becomes our ultimate goal. I don't know much about the scriptures. I am a learner myself, but putting this out here to hear your thoughts and to gain more understanding. Thanks and God Bless you all!
Perhaps they are just not elect or predestined unto eternal life. But God could send a donkey to share the gospel or anything He wants.
The grace of God has appeared unto all
- next question
Yepper
We are fearfully and wonderfully...
MADE.
So someone MADE me..
Anyone who does not want to personally know their own maker has denied the gospel completely. Case closed.
@@uncasunga1800 💥 ( big explosion )
@@uncasunga1800 Yeppers
Praise God He did
Many people heard jesus preach
Yet only a few conversions
Altho much healings
Judas herod pilate pharisees
All saw him yet no great conversions!
we do not choose GOD , GOD CHOSE US GRACE IN THE CENTER TO THE UNSWER TO THIS QURSTION .THIS MAKES GRACE GRACE
This was a pretty bad explanation, laying up a burden on the church, a burden Israel did not have. We cast our burdens onto God and take Jesus yoke. When Rahab turned to God it was because of the works of God, not man. If we trust God we obey in making disciples, but it is God's calling not our own.
You are inane and incoherent.
Romans 1:19-20
English Standard Version
19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world,in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.
Who cares. Thats Gods business.
Worry about you.
Will the maker of all the earth not do right?
@@1Whipperin they’re talking absolute nonsense, so they should be
@@laylascott6096 you not being competent enough to understand does not mean it is nonsense lol.
There is no hell and just because men read a book does not mean they know the truth which is why God's plan doesn't include men!
Hell is anywhere without YHVH Gods favor.
Just because He had a book written you are responsible for knowing its contents and is it your only way back to Him. You are wicked and evil and you cannot keep yourself alive or dead.
@@uncasunga1800 Hahahaha, God never had a book written that's crazy talk, and being responsible for knowing the content of mans books is definitely not a thing. And there is only one way to God friend and if you don'tknow that you're in big trouble! Honestly you should turn and run from whoever is teaching you this nonsense, it's poison!
@@uncasunga1800 Are you related somehow to the Spanish Inquisitors? They went one step further and required that you understand the Spanish language in real time.
No definitive answer here
@@HearGodsWord maybe what the poster meant is that the men who were giving the answer did not give a definitive answer, not that there is no definitive answer.
@@afterdarkness-light he wasnt listening
@@afterdarkness-light no one is owed forgiveness.
The question is only born from a heart in Total rejection of God's word and God's righteousness.
Man is ALREADY in sin: the verdict is in.
ANY1 who believes not is condemned already.
@@HearGodsWord you did not refute him at all.
@@HearGodsWord and yet you still waste everyone's time.
A monumental failure of the church - us, since we are the church. The great commission. The spread the gospel and preach Christ crucified to everyone, everywhere. Find a way to open a door, just a crack, and it will open the way to expound on the gospel.
What of the children in Uvalde massacre????
Thomas makes a good point.
My white neighbours in London have not heard the Gospel, & they haven't had dreams.
But Muslims in the Middle East, haven't heard the Gospel, but they have had dreams.
Something doesn't make sense
When you say Muslims have dreams about the Gospel or Jesus, you mean 0.0001% of them, the rest of 1.8 billion of them do not see or hear anything.
Tiny fraction of the population of people in Europe also hears and sees dreams about Jesus and get saved on a continual basis.
So the reality is, salvation belongs to a tiny, less than 1% of the worlds population.
@@nikokapanen82 he only likes muslims lol
Absolutely nothing, these fairy-tales have no bearing on the unbeliever.
Indeed, they have only a bearing on the believer, robbing them of some of their live time which they waste for this superstition.
They sure caused you get so triggered you had to spend time whining about it hahaha. Truth triggers you tho you are a narcissist unaware of your own mortality and futility.
Jesus Christ: The loser of most, not the savior of all.
This GOD who you speak of is NOT the Creator of this universe. You guys are happy to be part of an exclusive cult that excludes people who could never have even heard of Jesus Christ, and yet you believe you have found the all loving, all righteous, all forgiving CREATOR!!! Your form of Christianity attributes to GOD characteristics that are of your own making.
Really?....😳🥴 so, from your words, I would guess that you only worship the God that appeals to your sense of fairness, rather than the GOD who inspired Scripture & declared Himself throughout.
I would guess you love John 3:16 & 17, but totally ignore v18 & 36, nor have given much thought to John 3:3 that tells us that we CAN NOT even see the Kingdom of God UNLESS we are FIRST "Born from above" or as most say "Born Again", yet folks teach that we "chose" to be born again 🤔😳🥴 that is crazy!....but I did believe that for many years😉
We only exist by the mercy of God, viz:
"If He should set His heart on it; if He should gather to Himself His Spirit and His breath, all flesh would perish together and man would return to the dust."
[Job 34:14-15]
You should be very afraid saying He did not create everything that exists. That makes you a fool, as scripture says, "The fool says there is no God."
More crazy incoherrnt rambling you dont even have a clue what these guys r talking about.
You need to repent and be born again. You obviously have never read or understood Scripture.
Titus 2:11
The heavens declare the glory of God: the firmament the work of his fingers...
But he gave them over to their unclean lusts, for they did not acknowledge or glorify God nor even give thanks to Him.
People who have "never heard" the Gospel actually have "heard, and can be saved, but it's not automatic. They would have to trust in the "unknown God" alone, whom they are aware of via general revelation. General revelation consists of the majesty of Creation, and the Conscience written into all human hearts.
They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creation rather than the Creator. Had they worshipped and served the Creator instead, they would have been blessed forever. (Romans 1:25)